Correct temperature for real ale?

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Ringer
Date: 25 Jan 13 - 10:58 AM

"... when I'm paying well over three quid a pint..."

You're being robbed, Steve Shaw. I've just had two supremely lovely pints of The Bounder in The Chesterfield Arms for £2.40 each. Brewed by Leatherbreeches just for the CA, it's a pale, hoppy bitter, gloriously fruity in the mouth and with a fine lingering bitter aftertaste.

Goes extremely well with the Condor I smoke; pity it's so bloody cold!

To change the subject back to the thread's title: I once called in a pub near Earls Court tube station, as I had plenty of time before catching my train to Chesterfield. Had a pint of London Pride at near room temperature. It was unbelievably good. Had to miss that train and run (stagger quickly) for the last one of the day; good job they have loos on those trains! (I've sought that pub out since: run of the mill beer served at run of the mill temperature. I was just incredibly lucky to have caught the moment when I was in beer-drinking mood and the beer was perfect.)

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: MarkS
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 10:08 PM

Bill D

Thats a loud AMEN to that!

Its wonderful stuff.

Mark

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 04:29 PM

The best lager I ever had (Canada)

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 09:44 AM

I fully agree Dave, you can get some excellent lagers, if it's real lager and not nitro keg shite.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 04:50 AM

As I said above, a proper lagered beer will have a full flavour at cellar temperature.

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: eddie1
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 04:39 AM

Why not take the scientific approach?

Six bottles of your favourite real ale. Drink the first one at room temperature and put the rest in the fridge. When you have finished the first one, take the next from the fridge and drink this, putting another in the fridge to replace it. When you finally get to one you think is too cold, take them all out and start again, taking a casreful note of the time they have spent in the fridge. Drink them all, throw the note on the fire and start the whole experiment again!

Eddie

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 24 Jan 13 - 04:04 AM

Most lagers are served chilled to death so that you can't tell how tasteless it is.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: GUEST,marks (on the road)
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 08:50 PM

Because, Dick, then we could not argue and make rude jokes about it!

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 06:11 PM

Maybe the answer is however you like it?

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 06:01 PM

Ahem! That's odd! Cookie must have got reset. Guest above was ickle moi...

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 05:58 PM

One thing that doesn't seem to have been mentioned is the fundamental differences between beer (ale) & lager. They are two significantly different strains of yeast. Ale yeast is a top-fermenting strain, lager bottom-fermenting. Whether that has any relationship to the different drinking temperatures, I don't know!

But lager is brewed to be drunk cold i.e. around 4C, which explains why warm lager tastes like piss... ;-) Beer (ale), as previously noted, is brewed to be drunk at 10-14C; cool, not chilled; so that you can taste the bloody stuff! ;-)

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 10:37 AM

One of the best lagers I ever head was served from enormous wooden casks at ambient temperature in the natural underground caves at the Pilsen brewery. They keep a few of the old casks going so that they can monitor the quality of the product when made by the more modern production lines.

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 07:17 AM

That was a long time ago Steve, it may well be different now.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 07:07 AM

Regarding cold beer for hot countries, I recall a t.v. nature documentary with with Prof.David Bellamy in Australia. He was in the Outback at a particularly hot time and given a pint of beer or lager in one of the pubs. His bearded face screwed up like a prune and he cried into the camera, "Instant neuralgia!"

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Stanron
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 06:33 AM

In hot climates you need cold drinks and in cold climates you need warm drinks. So in the middle of a summer desert you'd drink your super cooled beers from frosted glasses and in England at this time of year I long to go in a pub, pull a red hot poker out of the blazing fire and pop it into my pint of real ale until it stops sizzling. Fat chance.

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 06:09 AM

Yep. Contrary to popular belief, progress in the modern age is possible. A cask-conditioned ale in a clean metal container can be a thing of beauty and testament to the skill of the brewer. And by no means is cask-conditioned ale a standardised product. It's a living thing and is just as variable as any other living thing. Sometimes sublime, sometimes a bit disappointing due to variability of the raw ingredients, which not only come in different varieties and from different provenances but which also endure the vicissitudes of good and bad seasons. I prefer to remove infection-prone, leaky old wooden barrels and poor temperature control from the equation when I'm paying well over three quid a pint, thanks.

I was thinking of taking Mother for a pub lunch at The Ram this weekend, Dave. I'll think again!

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 04:50 AM

Once on the way to a rugby match we stopped at a famous ' real ale ' pub, The Ram at Ramsbottom, Lancashire, no beer pumps, barrels on a rack at the back of the bar, the ale drawn into large jugs then used to fill the glasses, it was uniformly shite.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 23 Jan 13 - 03:06 AM

It wasn't either sour, flat or oxidised in the Earle Arms. 'Too warm' is a matter of personal taste. 'The bar' was just a window with a tiny counter. And it wasn't quiet during the week because all the local folk were piled in there every night, playing dominoes, having a sing-song (it was there I first learned the words to the Norwich football song "On the ball, City!") and talking about farming. There was also a colony or commune of hippies (and this was in the nineties!) and old boys with their dogs, some of which also liked a drop of beer in a dish! Heydon itself is a real time-warp. It's featured as the set for many films.

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 07:37 PM

On the few occasions I've supped beer from a wooden barrel on the bar it's been sour, flat and oxidised (as well as too warm). Nice idea in the good ol' days when all the lads 'n' lasses would come down to the non-centrally-heated alehouse and drink a whole barrel at 4d a pint in one evening when there was little or no other choice of beer. Not much cop these days when the pub keeps four real ales, two sorts of lager, draught cider and Guinness, all of which has gone off by Friday if it's been a quiet week.

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: gnomad
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 05:54 PM

James Joyce's Dubliners includes a description of some blokes opening bottles of stout by placing them on the hob so that the pressure blows out the cork, they having no corkscrew to hand.
You wouldn't do that these days for several reasons, but I have wondered how it must have tasted, not like extra-cold Guinness, I'm sure.

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 05:34 PM

In the warmer months, I keep good ales in a refrigerator until I want one, then, as I noted several years ago, allow it to reach a sensible temp before doing more than tasting.

In Winter, I have an entryway downstairs that I curtain off from the rest of the house... so when the living areas are maybe 68F, that one little room is 45-50F, and a great place to just leave beer & ale.

(I do sometime drink porter & stout and barleywines...etc... which often just taste 'better' at different temps... beer varies.)

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 05:04 PM

In the Earle Arms in Heydon, deepest Norfolk (before it became a nasty foodie pub) they served real ale from a keg on a bench behind the bar. So it was at room temperature, and as there was a wood fire in winter, it was quite a warm room. The ale was something to die for, and not in the least cold, so the flavour was very 'up front'. They had Reepham XXX, a local brew, and a few others I can't remember (perhaps Woodforde, although that is rather too sweet for my taste). The great thing was that like all true real ales, the kegs varied, and the flavour couldn't be predicted exactly. But if you left it too long in front of you it went flat of course. Now the place is full of wealthy types ordering fine wines and nouvelle cuisine poncy sort of food. The farm men and local 'old boys' have vanished. Sigh...

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 04:12 PM

Too many vampire moves.

Pure poetry, Richard - however so unwitting!

Otherwise - beer temperature correctness? As a matter of taste most stuff I drink comes straight from the fridge - mostly Hopping Hare (£1.30 from ALDI) the beer of choice for us urban dwelling wyrdfolk types who through the medium of Ritual & Supernatural Folk Song dream of a rural / ritual landscape that no longer exists.

My old Gran wouldn't drink a Guinness without having quenched a red hot poker in it.

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 04:07 PM

So we're all agreed then. 12C, 54F it is.

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 03:46 PM

The best temperature is 98.6 degrees. All the rest is commentary.

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: GUEST,rallyhybrid
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 03:20 PM

My drinking buddies and I are always bemoaning that our ale is spoiled by being too cold especially in winter. We've been thinking that it could be warmed up as it comes through the pipes to reach its optimum temperature so that its flavours can be fully enjoyed.

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 11 - 08:46 PM

But don't leave it too long.

This problem has traditionally been overcome by ensuring that beer is served only in tiny quantities, a mere pint at a time.

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 May 11 - 06:42 AM

Over most of the world's surface (excluding the North and South Ice Caps), unheated underground spaces such as caves and cellars naturally achieve a constant year round temperature of approximately 52 degrees Fahrenheit.

So anything stored underground will normally be at that temperature.

Hence, cask conditioned ales are ready for drinking when dispensed through a hand operated atmospheric beer pump.

Gas pumps will apply a certain amount of chilling, but are only normally used for rubbish like John Smiths Smooth.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: JHW
Date: 23 May 11 - 05:57 AM

The Campaign for Real Ale Cellarmanship booklet recommends 56degF or 13.5C for the cellar ie real ale should be KEPT at that temperature until serving. Once the beer is lukewarm it has had it so its no use chilling to serve a beer that has languished warm.
Casks on the bar with no temperature control, a feature of some festivals are disservice to real ale and the customer. Beer lines to the pump are commonly chilled now but where not equally a pint that has sat getting warm in the line will provide no pleasure.
Best of all is a cool pint taken outdoors in summer to drink surrounded by fresh air, releasing its flavour as it warms.
But don't leave it too long.

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 May 11 - 03:34 AM

When I was an apprentice plumber in the early 1960s we had a contract with a local brewery to fit cellar heaters in it's pubs to maintain them at the correct temperature, they were set at 37 degrees farenheit.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 May 11 - 03:47 PM

If it much less than 0 degrees C or much more than 100 degrees C you have a real problem...

DtG

Just back from the local Holts pub where the mild was a perfect temperature, whatever it was:-)

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: gnu
Date: 21 May 11 - 06:33 PM

Wet.... hahahahahahahaaaaaaaa

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 21 May 11 - 05:15 PM

I just put my real ales in the kitchen and I just drink em. They deffo do not go in the fridge.

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 May 11 - 04:09 PM

Wet.

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: GUEST,Rijkstra
Date: 21 May 11 - 04:06 PM

I just bought a new wine cellar/cooler and am drinking ale at the upper limit of red wine cellar temperature, about 58°F. It's a compromise between cellar temperature and drinking temperature of everything in the cooler which is higher for reds, lower for whites. BTW, 10°C - 14°C = 50°F - 57.2°F. I Just drank a Sierra Nevada Beer Camp Double IPA. It tasted much better than the last one I drank at an uncontrolled temp.

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 08:32 AM

Certainly for real ale not over chilled but stored in a cool place like a larder type pantry or on a cool stone floor, these days I'm not so keen on icy lagers or white wines that are over chilled I tend to let them rest before drinking them. It seems to make the food taste better if it's not too cold and isn't such a shock to the system in the winter.

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 07:20 AM

You've got a built-in thermometer in your brain that tells you whether it's right or not.

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 07:13 AM

Drinking with a thermometer in my hand - I don't think I could ever do that.

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: michaelr
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 09:21 PM

Cellar temp is 55-60 for German beers. Here in California, in the winter I don't chill my beer at all, just store it on the kitchen floor. It may get a little too warm for American tastes, but I don't buy American beer (Guinness last week, Carlsberg Elephant normally.)

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 08:59 PM

55-61 seems on the high side to me, That's about 13-16 Celsius. I think that a decent real ale at 16 degrees is bordering on the obnoxious-to-totally-flabby, and it's only going to warm up even more as it sits in front of you. You pay a lot of good money for a pint. Better that its temperature should be slightly on the low side, say 10-11 degrees, than too much the other way. It'll warm up a bit on the table anyway as long as you don't drink too fast (heaven forfend ;-)). At Sharps we do the tasting at 12 degrees.

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: GUEST,bobpit59
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 05:56 PM

There are some lovely people up there with taste - when I was a cellarman - 55-61 Degrees F was the range - and with clean pipes,
minimally disturbed casks - and a competent brewer - it was always
a touch of heaven-on-earth - and please don't say stupid things like "get a life" - real ale is part of earthly paradise - but only
part of it!!

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 12:48 PM

They do all sorts of awful things in modern cellars. Watch out for "gas assisted" beerpumps- these look like normal ones till the barperson just gives them a little twitch to let the beer out. Carbon dioxide powered. The temperature at which the beer is kept is just as important as that at which it's served, as the yeast in the beer is still live. Real real ales should be kept at the right temperature, if necessary the barrels jacketed and cold finger coolers used.

Had a nice pint of Wirksworth (a dark one- not sure what they call it) at the Crich tramway museum today!

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: alanabit
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 04:25 AM

Off subject a bit here, but I thought I would mention our beer culture here in the Rhineland. In Köln we drink Kölsch, but the Düsseldorfer have to make do with Alt Bier. Now Cologne is a few miles upstream... We take water from the river to brew and after we have drunk it we return it to the river, which flows north east. Now you know why we drink Kölsch and the Düsseldorfer drink Alt...

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Aug 09 - 04:23 PM

As an ex brewing chemist, back in the days when the only NON real ale was Watneys Red Barrel, I can confirm much of what has been said here.

All real ales are meant to be cellared at what is the natural year round temperature of underground rooms, and caves.

That is 52 degrees fahrenheit, give or take a degree.

All mass produced American beers should be frozen in the top of a glacier, and allowed to work their way to the bottom, by which time they will certainly be well past their use by date, so no poor unfortunate will be forced to imbibe them.

LOLOL
Don T

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 22 Aug 09 - 04:02 PM

I do like a chilled wife beater... It's like unsweet lemonade. I also like lots of other alcohol too, much too much of it.

Recently been enjoying Westons 'Old Rosie' Cider - sooo appley with a light tangy sourness, which I had on tap with simply the best ploughmans I've ever eaten. Perfect!

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: alanabit
Date: 22 Aug 09 - 03:35 PM

I had always thought that lager was rubbish until learned that Budweiser (that is the real stuff from Ceske Budejovice - not the US swill) is a lager. What we call lager in the UK is just about fit for rinsing the mud off your boots, but little else.
Getting back to the subject, I would agree with the posters earlier, who said cellar temperature. I always find that if real ale is a few degrees cooler than room temperature, it tastes just about right.

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: folk1e
Date: 22 Aug 09 - 02:19 PM

Guinness Extra Cold is just normal Guinness run through the chiller twice! (there's a marketing plan for you!)
Marstons (of the Pedigree fame) suggest their cellars are cooled to 7 degrees!
With modern cellars it is not as important as the beer lines are individually cooled to a preset temperature, this is called a Python!

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Jane of' ull
Date: 22 Aug 09 - 10:26 AM

I lost this thread, and had to reset my cookie! Wheres this new pub in 'ull then? Nice to hear something good happening here!

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 22 Aug 09 - 02:54 AM

Most lagers are served well chilled so you can't tell what tasteless shite it is.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Correct temperature for real ale?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 08:35 PM

And cider too: none of that glass from the fridge, a ton of ice-cubes, bottle from the fridge rubbish too!
Give me a nice pint of Thatcher's at room temp! You can taste it then!