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BS: US Health Care Reform
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Riginslinger Date: 16 Nov 09 - 09:34 PM Well, Don Firth, I was wrong. Woody did sing about illegal aliens, and he did it very well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: CarolC Date: 17 Nov 09 - 12:34 AM Robert J. Samuelson is a liar. The uninsured are not already receiving substantial medical care. That's why 45,000 people in the US die each year for lack of access to health care. Those of us who are uninsured do not have access to any medical care other than what we can afford to pay out of pocket, which for most of us, is very little. We have a 40 percent higher risk of death before the age of 65 than people who are insured because of our lack of access to medical care. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 17 Nov 09 - 02:29 AM Don:"Well, as I get it, Doug, Rig is opposed to any kind of health care public option because he's convinced that boatloads and buses full of illegal immigrants would come rushing into the U. S. to take advantage of free or inexpensive health care and break the country." That is exactly what happened in California...except it was boat loads. But the medical services, such as UCLA Olive View Hospital,in Sylmar, (one of the hospitals that received state funds), drastically, cut, and shut their outpatient services, and their emergency rooms were so crowded, that if you went there, for an EMERGENCY, one could easily wait at least 9 hours, or die waiting, (I was there a day when it happened), to be seen. The place was loaded with illegals, while U.S. citizens, were shoved to the 'back of the bus'. This was due to the Democratic Assembly, which voted in all sorts of bills that put the whole state funded health care at risk. Free clinics were also shut down, and so on and so forth, especially in the Southern California. Martin Luther King hospital in Long Beach was SHUT DOWN! Also, there have been acute shortages of nurses, and they have had a difficult time trying to fill the positions, because of the low pay! It was well known that pregnant Mexican women would flock to not only emergency rooms, but even to fire stations, to have their babies born in the U.S., so they(the children) could be 'natural' U.S. citizens, and the mothers would be eligible for California welfare, and AFDC, food stamps and the rest. This was going, and still is going on in massive numbers, and one of the factors in bankrupting the state! I do believe that everyone in need, who needs medical attention, should get it, but this, and other stuff going on out there, and I'm sure, other places around the country, is a sham, and a disgrace! The quality of life in Los Angeles, has plummeted, to being the armpit of California. The state has gone from being the sixth largest economy IN THE WORLD, to being broke. Now just how is anyone going to pay for this???? ..with ideological pipe dreams...or wishful thinking? Time to get real, and see that what went on in California, is able to happen across the country, as is usually the case. There are other huge reasons that this 'Health' care bill sucks, BUT, the present system, I DO BELIEVE, needs massive reforming, but this stuff going on in Washington is NOT it! |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 17 Nov 09 - 02:30 AM Correction:..".except it was boat loads."..should read ...WASN"T boatloads" |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Riginslinger Date: 17 Nov 09 - 07:07 AM You're right, Sanity, illegal immigration destroyed California, and it will destroy the rest of the country if something isn't done about it now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Joe Offer Date: 17 Nov 09 - 01:15 PM I dunno about illegal immigration destroying California, Riginslinger. I think it has more to do with people who think they should get government services without having to pay taxes, and with legislation-by-the-wealthiest in our initiative process. I think I'd blame the destruction of California on the selfishness of special interests and the abandonment of the idea of the Common Good. I really can't believe that illegal immigrants are the reason. Sometimes I wonder why it's so horribly immoral for somebody to come into California from Mexico to find a job. Heck, I came to California in 1970 in search of the elusive California Girl. Is my pursuit more moral than theirs? I will admit that California has gone downhill since I first saw it in 1970. Our parks and our schools are the most obvious indication. As for the health care bill, I wonder. It may be correct that the Obama plan is doomed to inefficiency and eventual failure, because so much has been cranked in to satisfy special interests. For legislation to be effective, it has to be made for the Common Good and not for the selfishness of special interests. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: beardedbruce Date: 17 Nov 09 - 02:01 PM CarolC How many times have you been turned away at the emergency room? FEDERAL LAW requires them to treat you to a stable condition ( well defined in previous posts) Thus, the medical care is there if they obey the law. IF NOT, how does this program help you, besides fining you for NOT having insurance? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: CarolC Date: 17 Nov 09 - 03:11 PM Emergency rooms don't provide medical care. They only stabilize the patient and then send them home. So to answer the question - I have not ever been turned away from an emergency room. But despite numerous tries, I have never had any health problems addressed, much less corrected in any emergency rooms, either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: CarolC Date: 17 Nov 09 - 03:15 PM To expand on that point, if a patient shows up at an emergency room with cancer, the emergency room will only make sure that the person's vital signs are stable and then they will send them home. They will not treat the cancer. If a person goes to the emergency room in diabetic shock, the emergency room personnel will only stabilize that person's vital signs and send them home. They will not provide the patient with a program and medications for correcting the diabetes. Anyone who thinks people can get their medical needs met in emergency rooms simply has not ever had to deal with not having insurance. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Don Firth Date: 17 Nov 09 - 05:08 PM GfS, can you link to articles or news stories that verify what you said in your post above? I'd also like to hear some Californians comment on what you have written. My wife and I know a number of people who live in California (Long Beach, Los Angeles, Pasadena, Santa Cruz, Berkeley, several other places) with whom I correspond by e-mail and talk with on the phone. We talk about a number of things, including the Prop. 8 matter and the health care situation and illegal aliens, and although they tell me that there indeed are a lot of them there (doing jobs that nobody else wants to do), they've said nothing about what you seem to be claiming. Verification, please? Then I'll ask some of my California friends and see what they say. By the way, I used to live in California. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 17 Nov 09 - 06:53 PM ""The origin of the names do not determine the nationality in the US. The immigration or citizenship status does. Besides, you can't talk about illegal immigration in the US, in any meaningful way, before the passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act."" Rig, the shit's up to your bottom lip man. STOP DIGGING! Those "American Citizens", you believe were killed in the Los Gatos plane crash were BEING DEPORTED, GET THE PICTURE? I live in the UK, and I figured out that the US government might have difficulty in deporting Americans to Mexico. Wake up pal. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Don Firth Date: 17 Nov 09 - 08:02 PM I can back up what Carol says. In June, between a severe back problem and an intestinal problem, I woke up sicker than a dog and in extreme pain. My wife called Medic One. They gave me a quick check to make sure I wasn't having a heart attack, then transported me to the nearby Swedish Hospital emergency room. After drawing blood, asking a bunch of questions, and giving me both a CT scan and an MRI scan, they concluded that I wasn't dying. They gave me ten pain pills, told me to contact my regular doctor ASAP, and sent me home. Except for the pain pills, I didn't feel a hell of a lot better when I left than when I went in. Thank God I have insurance. When the statement came from my insurance company, they noted that the Swedish Hospital emergency room had billed them and they had paid for it all (!!), and also let me know that the little adventure had cost $14,000! And along with that was the notation that I had used most of what I was allowed for 2009. And other than routine exams and the occasional illness, I don't go to the doctor that often! So—emergency room treatment is not free! If my health insurance company hadn't picked it up, I would most certainly have been billed for it. And if I couldn't pay it, one way or another, somebody winds up paying for it! I am following up with my regular doctor and a specialist, much of which the insurance company is taking care of. But not all. The intestinal problem has cleared up and I'm still dealing with a wonky lower back. I'd hate to think what it would be like without the insurance! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: curmudgeon Date: 17 Nov 09 - 08:10 PM "I'd hate to think what it would be like without the insurance!" Uninsured Trauma Victims More Likely To Die |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Don Firth Date: 17 Nov 09 - 08:13 PM By the way (and I hate to even mention this for fear that the idea may go wafting off into the ether), but the lower back problem comes and goes as a result of a scoliosis (a spinal curvature caused by weakened muscles on the right side of my spine as a result of polio at the age of two). Because I have had back problems off and on all my life, according to current health insurance company practices, at any time, my insurance company could declare my back problem a "pre-existing condition" and refuse to pay for further treatment. Lovely, wot!?? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Riginslinger Date: 17 Nov 09 - 09:25 PM "I dunno about illegal immigration destroying California, Riginslinger. I think it has more to do with people who think they should get government services without having to pay taxes..." Which is exactly what illegal immigrants do! |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Joe Offer Date: 17 Nov 09 - 10:18 PM Well, Rig, I guess I've seen statistics that prove both sides of that argument. All I can say is that I have seen very little credible proof that illegal aliens have a negative effect on the economy of California. In general, if they can't find work, they go home. But back to the main subject - I had really high hopes for universal health care; but this health bill isn't making anybody happy, because it tries to make too many people happy. Same thing happened to the Clintons. I had hoped the Obama Administration would have learned from the Clinton mistakes. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Don Firth Date: 17 Nov 09 - 10:38 PM More and more I'm convinced that if the insurance companies have a say in the matter at all, we'll never have a civilized health care system in this country. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 18 Nov 09 - 03:23 AM DonF:'GfS, can you link to articles or news stories that verify what you said in your post above? I'd also like to hear some Californians comment on what you have written.' I lived, and had a recording studio in 'SoCal'. It was well documented in the L.A. Times, plus I WAS THERE, at the hospital, at the time when this happened. I don't have a link, at the moment, but if I researched it, I know I could easily provide one or a few dozen. Better yet, have one of your friends stop by Olive View Hospital, in Sylmar,(take the Roxford off ramp) pop into the emergency room, and have them tell you what they see. Ask them to talk to the people waiting for help. At that, there should be no question, at all to the validity of what I said. You can try to call KFI radio station, in L.A. Ask them for links, or where to get the story. They've been reporting on it for some time now. CarolC:"If a person goes to the emergency room in diabetic shock, the emergency room personnel will only stabilize that person's vital signs and send them home. They will not provide the patient with a program and medications for correcting the diabetes. Anyone who thinks people can get their medical needs met in emergency rooms simply has not ever had to deal with not" In California, the outpatient clinics at the state run hospitals are linked to the emergency rooms. All you have to do, is show up, and after being seeing in the ER, you get re-routed, to the appropriate, services at the hospital. There are several different financial programs that anyone can qualify for, anything from pay what you can afford, all the way to free...free doctors services including free prescriptions, and follow up visits. To get into that, all one needs to do is show up, and that is primarily done at the ER's. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: CarolC Date: 18 Nov 09 - 03:40 AM Most states don't have programs like the one you describe in California. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Riginslinger Date: 18 Nov 09 - 07:50 AM "Most states don't have programs like the one you describe in California." Which is exactly why California is in economic melt down. That wouldn't be the case if they were only taking care of legal American citizens. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Greg F. Date: 18 Nov 09 - 09:26 AM That wouldn't be the case if they were only taking care of legal American citizens. Oh, please. If I may quote: " Rig, the shit's up to your bottom lip man. STOP DIGGING! " |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 18 Nov 09 - 12:18 PM GregF:"Oh, please." Yes, but nonetheless, he is correct. Shouldn't we, as a nation, or a people, LEARN from our mistakes? Giving to the needy, is great, if you can do it, but the needy taking it before we have it, is yet a different matter. So is taking it from the people, BEFORE those can provide it, and bankrupting the system that can provide it. Also, there are LEGAL ways to come into the country, as well. So, if breaking the law, or at least that law, is okay, why can't we selectively choose one law, that WE can break, with impunity???? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: dick greenhaus Date: 18 Nov 09 - 12:46 PM Does anyone really think that the solution to an immigration problem is to limit their health care to emergency room treatment? What color was that herring? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Greg F. Date: 18 Nov 09 - 02:28 PM In addition to the aforementioned herring, California is in "economic meltdown" duenot to "illegal immigrants" but to Ronald Reagan, the voodoo economics of the last 20 years, over-reliance on the housing market as an economic engine and the general economic collapse caused by wall street and commercial banking interests. Of course, Mexicans are inviting targets as scapegoats.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Don Firth Date: 18 Nov 09 - 02:46 PM And there are those of us here who do love our scapegoats, don't we!?? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Don Firth Date: 18 Nov 09 - 02:56 PM And by the way, GfS, I am not going to take your word about your personal observations or that everything you say is well-documented but that I should look it up myself because you can't be bothered. I'm not going to do your homework for you. If you want to have any credibility at all, provide authoritative links to back up what you claim. I hear other things about the health care situation in California and its causes from people whom I consider to be less biased and more reliable than you. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Nov 09 - 04:09 PM That'd be back in the 1840s wouldn't it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Don Firth Date: 18 Nov 09 - 04:53 PM By the way, where is Zorro these days? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: DougR Date: 18 Nov 09 - 05:11 PM Uh, the one who immediately comes to mind, Don, lives in the White House. :>) DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Don Firth Date: 18 Nov 09 - 05:24 PM ?? To obscure for me, Doug. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Greg F. Date: 18 Nov 09 - 06:09 PM Not only obscure, its puerile and stupid. As one would expect. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 Nov 09 - 06:36 PM Apparently Doug has come to the conclusion that there's someone living in the White House who is a pretty good man. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Riginslinger Date: 18 Nov 09 - 09:51 PM "...California is in "economic meltdown" due not to "illegal immigrants" but to Ronald Reagan, the voodoo economics of the last 20 years, over-reliance on the housing market as an economic engine and the general economic collapse caused by wall street and commercial banking interests." You're partly right, Greg, Ronald Reagan had a lot to do with it. But I would argue that it had more to do with the foolishness of using a peace time military build-up in lieu of a public works program than over-reliance on the housing market (which wasn't a good thing either, but it came later). However, the most disasterous thing Ronald Reagan did to the economy of California was to sign the 1986 Amnesty Bill. That was really devistating. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 19 Nov 09 - 12:37 AM I posted a post with links, being as you asked for them, but somehow, it never made it up. This time, let's not let unrealistic idealistic political views get in the way of the FACTS!. Note pages 7 and 8: http://www.caph.org/publications/WhitePaperFINAL.pdf californiahealthline.org/Articles/2004/4/14/...+Health www.old.dhs.lacounty.gov/clinics/medcare.htm www.latinamericanstudies.org/immigration/health.htm maillists.uci.edu/mailman/.../calaaem/2003-May/000147.html kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports/...?DR_ID=17819&dr_cat=3 www.mattel.medsch.ucla.edu/introClinYears.asp californiahealthline.org/articles/2003/2/6/... kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports/... - 89k www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=290445&comments=true # [PDF] On The Brink: How the Crisis in California's Public Hospital ... 188k - Adobe PDF - View as html ... many undocumented immigrants. With more than ... the department slated for closure two additional hospitals—Olive-View ... Natividad Medical Center, Olive View ... www.caph.org/publications/WhitePaperFINAL.pdf Just for starters. By the way, the figure, in the first link, said "The cost of serving such high numbers of uninsured is driving the crisis in the county's public health care system. LAC DHS serves 800,000 people each year, most of them uninsured and many undocumented immigrants. With more than 100,000 inpatient stays, over 300,000 emergency room visits and 2 million outpatient visits system-wide annually, LAC..." You do the math...almost 10,000 emergency room visits a day!!!!! ('LAC' is L.A. County, ie. 'system wide') We simply can't afford this!!...as I've said in an earlier post. I've posted other links that show more...GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: CarolC Date: 19 Nov 09 - 01:31 AM Not allowing undocumented workers to buy into a new health care system will guarantee two things... that their money will not be used to help support the system, and that they will continue to use emergency rooms for acute care. If people want to save the health care system and the economy in California, the way to do it would be to allow undocumented aliens to buy into the health care system (when we finally get one). |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 19 Nov 09 - 05:49 AM ""[snip]"The cost of serving such high numbers of uninsured is driving the crisis in the county's public health care system. LAC DHS serves 800,000 people each year, most of them uninsured and many undocumented immigrants.[snip]"" ""[snipYou do the math...almost 10,000 emergency room visits a day!!!!! ('LAC' is L.A. County, ie. 'system wide') We simply can't afford this!!...as I've said in an earlier post.[snip]"" That's a hell of a stretch, even for a truth twister like GfS, so let's break it down and see what it actually says about the impact of illegal immigrants. 1. ""LAC DHS serves 800,000 people each year, most of them uninsured and many undocumented immigrants."" Does anybody see where this is going? GfS wants to make a case against healthcare provision for immigrants. The case requires that immigrants have a provable detrimental effect on the provision of said care, so we put together two figures and extrapolate from them. The figures chosen are as follows:- 800,000, most of them uninsured. Fair comment, since the USA contains 47 million uninsured Americans. One might expect that California would have its share. Many undocumented immigrants. How many? Well we don't know, but because we want it to be a lot, we'll work on the assumption that it is. "HEY! How about that, we've proved that it's all down to illegal immigration, and we can't afford it, so let's just ditch the whole idea. Then they'll all die or get better, who cares. Either way, problem solved. And this from somebody who claims to be a qualified counsellor. GOD HELP THE USA! Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Riginslinger Date: 19 Nov 09 - 08:24 AM goD could help the USA, if there was such a thing, by simply preventing illegals from entering the country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: CarolC Date: 19 Nov 09 - 11:15 AM The term "Qualified counselor" doesn't really tell you anything about their background and training (in the US, anyway). In the US, people can be counselors who only have religious training, and their counseling is entirely from the point of view of their religion. And there are also counselors who are only trained in substance abuse, or social work. And some of them are guidance counselors in schools, and are trained for that. Before accepting a person's claim of being a qualified counselor, I would want to know what kind of counselor they are qualified to be. If they say trained and licensed psychotherapist, I might take something they say on the subject of counseling seriously (and then again, I might not... there is no shortage of crappy counselors in the world). |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 19 Nov 09 - 11:46 AM You've got to be kidding me!!! I never said that it was just undocumented(read: illegal) immigrants, were the root cause. So you don't like the message, so attack the messenger!! Idiots! |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Joe Offer Date: 19 Nov 09 - 01:28 PM Well, GfS didn't dig quite so deep a hole. The quote was
Yes, I would suppose that most people who go to county hospitals in Los Angeles, are uninsured. I've done interviews in the Harbor and USC/LA County Medical Centers, and I can tell you they aren't very comfortable places (although the USC/County building is an architectural masterpiece). People who have insurance, go to places that aren't so crowded and don't have such long waiting times. And if they have to go to a county hospital, most people don't go until they're past the point where they can be treated with less expensive remedies. But the fact of the matter is that an awful lot of people in the US don't have health insurance; and though most taxpayers don't want these people to die or spread disease, they don't like paying for them to get first-class medical treatment. So, in general, people without health insurance get minimal treatment - and it's still very expensive. Seems to be a good argument for universal health care, so there won't be uninsured people who have to go to overcrowded hospitals. Thanks for providing the information to prove my point, GfS. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Don Firth Date: 19 Nov 09 - 02:50 PM Just logged on and I note that things seem to be pretty well in hand. I did try to access some of GfS's "links," by trying to get to the sites through google (apparently GfS doesn't know how to make a link, nor, it would seem, accurately transcribe a URL—all you have to do is copy and paste from the address line, but I guess that was just too much bother for him/her—so much for credibility), but what I did find was similar to what others found: GfS is trying to make it sound as if all of the problems the California health care system is having are caused by illegal aliens, when in actuality, they are only a small part of the problem. And there is this interesting little bit: GfS, most of your "links" didn't work, and those that did triggered my anti-virus software and showed me a warning screen that said the site was unsafe, and asked me if I really want to proceed? Are you really that petty? Don Firth P. S. The primary subject of this thread is U. S. Health Care Reform. But Rig, aided and abetted by GfS, has managed to "red herring" it into a discussion of one of Rig's favorite obsessions, illegal aliens, and blow it all out of proportion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Nov 09 - 07:49 PM It's a good thing that these illegal immigrants clearly must be built so that they never have infectious diseases that citizens might pick up... |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Riginslinger Date: 19 Nov 09 - 09:43 PM "It's a good thing that these illegal immigrants clearly must be built so that they never have infectious diseases that citizens might pick up..." They aren't, of course, which is another good reason to keep them out! |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Don Firth Date: 19 Nov 09 - 09:54 PM Yup! That's right! Let's keep them dirty, diseased furriners outta our country and keep it safe fur us pure Amurcuns! Yessiree, Bob!! (Like I said: obsessed.) Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 20 Nov 09 - 03:25 AM Don, that was a low blow, and a lie. Here, in your yahoo search engine, type in 'Olive View Hospital' & 'immigrants'. Go from pages 1 to 6..if you're even really interested at all...or ask 'Amos' who doesn't live too far from there, and ask him to take a look, and ask some patients, 'Is it always like this?' ..and."How long have you been waiting?' Amos, from where he is, can take the 101 to the 405 North which turns into the 5, (He'll know where that is)to the Roxford off ramp. Parking is still, to my knowledge, free. I've been there numerous times, and unlike you, KNOW what I'm talking about. Have him post what he sees and hears...That is, if you're even really interested, other than for the sake of arguing, and being manner-less. There were no viruses, but some addresses were longer than than I copied. The quote of 300,00o, was just for ERs..the patients for the outpatient clinics, after one is seen at the ER, is 2 million. Read it yourself! |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Desert Dancer Date: 20 Nov 09 - 01:11 PM Just which Health bill foes solicit funds for economic study By Michael D. Shear Washington Post Staff Writer Monday, November 16, 2009 The U.S. Chamber of Commerce and an assortment of national business groups opposed to President Obama's health-care reform effort are collecting money to finance an economic study that could be used to portray the legislation as a job killer and threat to the nation's economy, according to an e-mail solicitation from a top Chamber official. The e-mail, written by the Chamber's senior health policy manager and obtained by The Washington Post, proposes spending $50,000 to hire a "respected economist" to study the impact of health-care legislation, which is expected to come to the Senate floor this week, would have on jobs and the economy. Step two, according to the e-mail, appears to assume the outcome of the economic review: "The economist will then circulate a sign-on letter to hundreds of other economists saying that the bill will kill jobs and hurt the economy. We will then be able to use this open letter to produce advertisements, and as a powerful lobbying and grass-roots document." James P. Gelfand, the e-mail's author, confirmed its authenticity in a brief telephone conversation Sunday evening. He said the campaign against Democratic health legislation would only be launched "if that's what it found," but declined further comment and referred questions to a Chamber spokesman. (more to the article at the link above) |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Desert Dancer Date: 20 Nov 09 - 01:14 PM more from that article -- Randy Johnson, the Chamber's senior vice president who handles health-care issues, called the e-mail "inartfully worded" and said the group never intended to suggest that the outcome of the study would be preordained. "It's not saying that we would tell the economist how it should come out. Perhaps it wasn't artfully phrased," Johnson said. "It's based on what we think the economist will come out with. It doesn't mean we know what the economist will come out with." Johnson said the Chamber always intended to be transparent about who funded the study. Asked whether the Chamber would release the study if it concluded that the health bill would increase jobs and improve the economy, he initially said, "We would cross that bridge if we came to it." Moments later, he said, that on reflection, a positive finding from the economist would help to educate the business groups and would play a role in the position they take on the legislation. "If it was like, oh wow, well, it doesn't have the kind of adverse impact we thought, that would educate us," he said. (sound of vigorous backpedaling is heard...) |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Nov 09 - 01:26 PM ..."They aren't, of course... Maybe I should start looking around again for that "ironic" font... |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: Don Firth Date: 20 Nov 09 - 02:32 PM Neither a low blow nor a like, GfS. TRUE! I tried to access a couple of the sites you recommended and got the virus warning, so I stopped! Just to be sure that my A-V program wasn't giving me false positives, I tried a number of other sites and didn't get the warning. Only on a couple that you put up. Is it any wonder I don't trust you? And NO, it is not a lie! I invite others to check your post and try some themselves--provided they have a good A-V program on board and it's turned on. Don Firth has left the building!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: US Health Care Reform From: GUEST, heric Date: 20 Nov 09 - 02:50 PM >101 to the 405 North which turns into the 5, (He'll know where that is)< WTF? No, he won't. |
