BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Jun 11 - 02:37 PM

What Bobert said. He's got a good grip on this situation.

I was very much in favor of Dennis Kucinich early on (a couple of presidential elections ago). But he's gotten a bit hysterical lately, and he'd be a disaster if he were elected.

I'm not happy with Obama. Great hopes early on, but he's disappointed a lot of people for reasons I've posted earlier. Not strong enough, too conciliatory with people who have no intention of compromising on anything.

People like GfS will, of course, vote for Kucinich, even go so far as to write him in if he doesn't make the ballot, rather than vote for Obama, split the vote, and throw the election to one of the Republican bozos who are slavering after the job.

THEN, we'll ALL have something—a lot of things—to howl about!

####

I, too, am not bothering to read Sawzaw's posts. Cut and paste from his favorite Right Wing blogs, and then lards them over with personal insults.

And as for GfS:   Why should I waste my time trying to have a rational discussion with someone who insults my intelligence and denigrates my character rather than even considering what I'm saying? That's the mark of someone who is not open to reasonable argument; rather than making a sensible point, they are far more interested in trying to show how smart they are by putting the other person down.

If you want a graphic illustration of this sort of conduct, read Sawzaw's last post ot Bobert. And—look at the next post that GfS directs at me.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Jun 11 - 03:54 PM

I didn't vote for Dennis Kucinich..and I doubt that I would...but if it came to just voting a Democratic ticket, I might be tempted to.

Don: "I'm not happy with Obama. Great hopes early on, but he's disappointed a lot of people for reasons I've posted earlier. Not strong enough, too conciliatory with people who have no intention of compromising on anything."

Well, during the elections I went 'round and 'round with Amos, that Obama was not even 'qualified' to be President...So I'm somewhat glad that you came around, even if it was a bit late! are you going to 'fault' me for being ahead of the curve, on that one, too?

Now, to get back to the topic of the thread..The Tea Party is NOT a 'terrorist' organization, nor should they be made out to be likened to one. That's the shit that divisive idiots try to foist on the American people, who are just not contented with the two party's behavior! If you spend too much, cut back. If you're taxed to much, cut back. If we get bailouts, at taxpayer expense, how about some accountability....especially when the Bozo at the top, promised 'transparency'....transparency my ass! You, as well as I KNOW, it went to the mega-corporations, and to funding God only knows what, without scrutiny of the American public...even though, we have to pay for it! That is complete crap, any way you slice it! I think even you could agree with that...as any 'normal' citizen, of ANY country....wouldn't you say?
As far as 'selective' military involvements overseas, just which ones to find consistent with what our, or any military, is supposed to be doing?.......and what is all this run-up with TRILLIONS of dollars, with NO apparent rhyme or reason?..............I'd be tempted to give you a couple of takes on it, but from your tones, I don't think that you'd be able to spare any rationality...even though REPEATEDLY, I've been correct on a WHOLE LOT of stuff...and/or at least, got people to think further than the typical surface nonsense being thrown out there through the 'info-tainment' 'news' outlets.
Being that, as it may, why do you think that I'm against you getting accurate information? That is absolutely silly!!..and that being said, I maintain, and accurately so, that we, as a people, are being fed a bunch of lying horse crap, designed specifically to mislead, and cover up greater evils....to which WE should be against, not singing the praises for....wouldn't you say?..the only problem is, is to get accurate info, you have to make room, by getting rid of false misleadings, that you seemed to hold onto, for dear life.
Bobert wants to make everything a Democrat versus Republican issue, and can't get past that. I believe the corrupted course, we, as a nation, are on, is in control of both parties..and I think the evidence is overwhelmingly supportive of that view! No matter what 'party' gets into 'power', we keep heading down the same path, wouldn't you say?..and even up to the exact SAME policies, that both parties are pointing their fingers at each other, for the EXACT same shit, blaming each other..........and not questioning 'WHY'!...and furthermore, not being able to correct it..from either 'side'!
...and for this, I'M the 'bad guy'???????????
Shit, I'm just a musician....a pretty fuckin' good one, at that....and I don't like seeing what the corrupt power mongers are doing to my country, and my fellow country-men!...including you two!..not to mention others who haven't got the 'cajones' to post..or at least, discuss things with a genuine open(as in 'liberal') mind!!
I'm telling you, we've been betrayed!....and by BOTH parties. So get over it, as far as blaming me, or anyone that you erringly perceive, as being 'against' you.
P.S. Besides, you must be, by now, getting tired of getting the snot slapped out of you!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jun 11 - 04:18 PM

Well, the Tea Party is certainly a racist party and a party that has used terrorism to control others... Ask your black firend, especially those who are older and grew up in the South and they'll tell you that the Tea Party is the new Klan... If you grew up in Jim Crow South than you certainly understand terrorism...

They scared my mom away from a town meeting in Florida with their insults, threats and screaming at people... And my mom don't scare easily... And they yelled "Hang him" at Palin rallies in reference to Obama...

No, they are very much a terrorist organization...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 09:17 AM

Bobert: "They scared my mom away from a town meeting in Florida with their insults, threats and screaming at people... And my mom don't scare easily... And they yelled "Hang him" at Palin rallies in reference to Obama..."

...and you two got scared away, just by asking you questions, and asking for explanations. Sounds pretty weak to me. Did you ever stop to think, that your rantings about Tea Partiers, there in the South, might have more to do with some residual biases found primarily with Southerners, than Tea Partiers???..I mean the KKK is primarily a Southern gig, and not as prevalent in the rest of America. NOBODY, that I've met here, even relates to the KKK...AT ALL!! They (the KKK), have NO credibility, anywhere I've traveled. So your fixation, on equating the two of them, as one entity, is just full of hot air...excuse me...'Hot Southern Air'.
But let's not steer away from the SAME tactic that quasi smug 'liberal' wannabes, accuse others with their childish accusations.
Rather than painting all dissenters with the same brush, as 'racists', 'bigots', 'homophobes' et al..blah blah blah, then running away to hide, like a bunch of ninnies, maybe you might consider, what beyond 'name calling' you guys ain't got much going on yourself!!..
You can always vote for Obama, again!....regardless of any sound judgment, or the ability to take a look around the rest of the country.

...and why bitch at me??..I'm not the one belly-achin' because I was deceived. I'm not the one disillusioned that the guy I voted for turned out to be a piece of shit.....but don't listen to me...what do I know???..(You don't have to try to wrap your brains around that one..you don't have enough wrapping paper!!).

A Reminder, from Bob Dylan:

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

GfS

P.S. Do ya' think they'll ever understand who he was talking about???

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 09:52 AM

Oh yeah......."The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??"

Brought to you from the same mentality that thought ALL 'hippies' were a communist plot!!!

Wavin',

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 12:51 PM

Still no facts from Bobert about the about Dixiecrat issue he brought up. The man can't can't answer a straight up question and name any Dixiecrats.He Can't explain his own term "shitload"

Just puffin out his chest and blowin hard trying to change the subject which he knows nothing about and calling anyone who disagrees with him ignorant.

Let the record show that Bobert will not and cannot supply any facts about the subjects of the Dixiecrats that he introduced in this forum.

---

Next subject or stink bomb that Bobert introduced in this forum:

Bogus claims as an excuse to start a war:

Now what was the bogus claim about the Gulf of Tonkin?

Who lied about the bogus claim?

Was that war declared? How many people died in that war?

Bobert claims to be a protester so maybe he has some facts about his subject.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 01:40 PM

Sawzaw: "Bobert claims to be a protester so maybe he has some facts about his subject."

Protesters, in general, are called 'protesters' because they 'protest'. Backing up a claim, from which they are 'protesting' about does NOT fall into the 'job description'.
Notice, that there are NUMEROUS subjects that have been brought up, that instead of backing up their 'claims', they then go on to 'accusing', as if all readers, by word association, begin to 'protest' the person to whom the 'protesting accusation' is made....without a scrap of truthful foundation to back it up!!!

It is a tactic that has been used relentlessly, by so-called, phonies, who align themselves with trumped up 'liberal' causes.

The history speaks for itself, and is quite evident....but then...
"History teaches us, that man never learns from history"!!

Instead, I guess they're going to hide and pout, in lieu of wising up, and considering learning something that THEY can incorporate into their 'hipness'.

Hey, Sawzaw...This was a good one!..Have a good day!
Bobert, and Don....Still love you guys!

Regards to All,

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 02:49 PM

". . . and you two got scared away. . . ."

If it floats (bloats) your little ego to think that, GfS, then go right ahead. I'm nothing if not generous to those who need to go to ridiculous lengths to prop up their crumbling self-esteem.

I find it a complete waste of time to try to discuss or debate with someone who isn't interested in even considering other viewpoints and responds with nothing more substantial than trying to shove those with whom they disagree into shallow pigeon holes with pseudo-political labels, uses degrading insults, and generally treats people with utter contempt.

And as to the degrading insults. Obviously you are unaware that the insults don't degrade the person you're trying to insult, they degrade YOU.

I can have that sort of friendly, intellectual discussion with my neighbor's yappy Yorkshire terrier. When I turn around and walk away, he undoubtedly thinks like he's faced me down—when, in reality, I could squash him under my foot. But—I'm kind to dumb animals. . . .

GfS—and Sawzaw—your questions have been answered many times over. It's just that the two of you would not be happy with ANY answer, you want to just keep the argument going.

I am just as unhappy about the way this country is being run as you are. But as is illustrated by the way you talk to and about people here on these threads, you tend to attribute what people do, in general and in politics in particular, to sheer stupidity and/or corruption and deceitfulness. In some cases, particularly in politics, this is, indeed, true. But I know, FOR A FACT that there are some truly honest politicians out there. I know a few personally. This is because I don't just talk about it. I am politically active. And the fact that I AM politically active gives me a great opportunity to observe things from close up, and it also gives me a pretty good education on how things work. Or DON'T work, as the case may be.

As to Obama not being qualified to be President, his education (Law) and prior political experience actually makes him more qualified than most candidates. And that's a fact. And his heart's in the right place. Both of these things were evident during the campaign, AND after. And still. His mistake, as I have stated a number of times, is in trying to build consensus and get cooperation and compromise with people who have a vested interest in making sure he fails, and would just as soon impeach him or disqualify him if they thought they could find a viable reason. God knows, they've tried, what with their "birther" B.S., and now attacking him on allegedly "going to war without the approval of Congress" and all that.

And you two guys, with your attitudes, would play right into their hands. Boy, is THAT politically savvy!!

I never said that the Tea Party is a "terrorist organization," but it's beginning to look more and more as if they are. They're a bunch of really pissed-off people. But in case anybody missed it, what they have gone on record about is that they are pissed off, not at the fact that the top five percent of the wealthy in this country have—individually—more wealth than the rest of the population (95%) combined! And that they share almost NONE of the tax burden, if any at all, while the rest of us are paying a much higher percentage of our incomes than they are. That doesn't seem to bother the Tea Party one bit.

No. Instead, they're pissed off at people who receive Social Security checks (from a system they've paid into all of their work lives) when they've grown too old to work or have become disabled. They're pissed off at Obama wanting to institute a national health plan when we are the only civilized (?), industrialized country in the world that doesn't have one and has the costliest health care in the world—but far from the best, as some like to claim.

They're pissed off at the government's attempts to regulate Wall Street and the banks, which, due to the fact that Ronald Reagan managed to gut the Securities and Exchange Commission and a number of other regulatory agencies, regulations instituted by Franklin D. Roosevelt in the 1930s to put a leash on the people who caused the Great Depression, resulted in the ongoing Wall Street Ponzi Scheme plunging us into the current economic mess we are in.

These people think they're freeing the country from the excesses of "Big Government" when, in actuality, they want to turn the whole country over to the very crooks that are the cause of all their woes.

But they're too bloody ignorant to understand this, having received their political education and their understanding of economics from the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, Bill O'Reilly, and the other charlatans of the Right Wing (so called) "news" media.

As to pulling the troops out of Afghanistan, to do that now would be disastrous, when the pressure the U. S. presence has put on the situation there has led to overtures that look like they could result in a peaceable coalition between the Karzai government and a chastened Taliban. NOT a good time for us to leave, and Obama knows that, so he IS doing the right thing. It's a matter of smart timing.

I (and others) have already pointed out that the U. S. involvement in Libya is NOT the U. S. "invading Libya," it is a joint operation between NATO and the UN. And the U. S. is a member of, and has obligations to, both organizations. The British launched the Tomahawk missiles from British ships, and the U. S. provides air cover and was given the assignment (by the way, the French are spearheading the operation) of taking out Qaddafi's air defenses. No U. S. "boots on the ground." Why did the UN and NATO want to do this? Libyan's, following the lead of the Egyptians, were demonstrating for regime change when Qaddafi started murdering his own people

Fasten your seat belt, GfS:   It's a Human Rights thing!

And we know from threads on other subjects just how concerned you are with human rights.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 02:52 PM

First of all, I ain't afraid of the Tea Party people any more than I was afraid of the Klan... I knew people who were members of the Klan back in the 60s and 70s and they didn't individually scare me in the slightest... Most of them were just loudmouths who unless they were with their buddies were purdy wimpy...

It's when these folks get into a mob they can be dangerous... My mom never went into that town meeting because of the Tea Party outside playing mob... Lots of other elderly people who came to speak or to just listen turned around as well... My mom was 90 at the time so I'm glad she didn't try to push her way thru the rednecks... She, however, in her day didn't back down and was arrested several times in civil rights demonstrations...

As for generalizations??? There are occasions when common sense takes over and generalizations work in keeping you safe... There are places that folks just don't need to be... I mean, back when I was working at Rubicon North in Richmond I worked every other weekend from Friday night until Monday morning as SOD (Staff on Duty)... Rubicon North was a drug treatment half-way house and was at the the corner of 2nd and Calhoun which was right in the middle of one of the roughest neighborhoods in Richmond... I knew lots of people and would sit out on the sidewalk sometimes and play geetar or just talk with people well past midnight... The operative word is that people knew me... All kinds of people knew me... Pimps, hookers, ripper 'n runners... So I was relatively safe unless I got shot by accident from a stray bullet...

There are 2nd & Calhouns in cities across the country where today, even though I have a good amount of acquired black dialect, rhythm and mannerism I wouldn't be safe getting out of the car at 3 in the morning... I mean, generalizations do serve learned people well in certain circumstances...

So, yeah, like me not wanting to get out of the car like 5 blocks from Temple University in Philly at 3 in the morning or 5 blocks from Johns Hopkins in Baltimore at 3 in the morning, my mom went to a town meeting and was met by a mob of rude people... Were all these people rude people??? No, probably not... But enough were so that common sense + generalizations told her to turn around...

That is the problem with mob (herd) mentality... Things can get out of hand and people hurt... That's why when I heard some of the   things that Sarah Plain was saying at rallies which brought people to yell "Hang him" it was clear to anyone with common sense that had Obam been at that rally then maybe one of the folks would have tried to either kill or harm him... When I hear people saying that it's time for 2nd amendment remedies these people are giving permission to others to do just that... There have already been acts of violence carried out by people associated with the Tea Party so it isn't some figment of one's imagination that these acts could escalate or be repeated...

Bottom line: The Tea Party has put out threats and backed them up... They have tacitly given permission to any wingnut out there with a gun that killing is okay if you are defending some policy position of your party...

This is dangerous... This is un American... This is a deterrent to compromise, democracy, discussion, etc...

The Tea Party has never, to my knowledge, denounced these tactics or apologized for using them... Until they do, they are not unlike the Taliban in the way they try to get their policies in place... In other words: terrorism!!!

Like it or not, that is what it is... Let them denounce these tactics and apologize and maybe a new ball game... Until then, they do try to scare people and that ain't what democracy is all about... That what dictators do...

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 03:29 PM

Don, your points are both well taken, and at least you stated them, without your usual name calling(mostly), to those who disagree.

On Afghanistan, whether we belong to an alliance or not, we still have to go to Congress, whether you like it or not. After all, they do, or are suppose to handle the funding....something this administration seems not to give a shit about, for any number of 'programs'. Agree?

"I'm nothing if not generous to those who need to go to ridiculous lengths to prop up their crumbling self-esteem."

Physician, heal thyself!

"I am just as unhappy about the way this country is being run as you are."

Then you might consider stopping your relentless support of 'causes' that are found to be in error!

"But I know, FOR A FACT that there are some truly honest politicians out there. I know a few personally. This is because I don't just talk about it. I am politically active. And the fact that I AM politically active gives me a great opportunity to observe things from close up, and it also gives me a pretty good education on how things work. Or DON'T work, as the case may be."

At first I couldn't tell if you were bragging or complaining! The same thing I posted about 'protesters' can easily be applied to 'activists'. Just because a person is 'active' is not a guarantee that his views are accurate...he's just active! it may be noted, that though one might not question your sincerity, and whether or not you are sincere, it is no reason for YOU not to question whether you may be 'sincerely wrong'!

And as to the 'human rights' issue, again, that is only defined as what political rose colored glasses you're looking through...For instance, what about the human rights issue in Iran??? Egypt?? Venezuela??..here, as to their 'right' for people to dissent, en mass, and form an appendage, to either political party, without the hate and discontent being aimed at them by BOTH sides?? Or is that confined to human rights, only defined by either or both sides, as what is defined by 'human'?..or rights'
I am NOT a Tea Partier, nor Republican, nor Democrat...but I can listen to each of their raps, and see certain truths, and fallacies in any one of their persuasive 'issues'.
I think its high time, that we begin to remember that we are Americans, who generally are both selfish, materialistic, but also a generous people. Stirring up, any segment to hate, resent or close off, only brings divisions and isolation to us all, for the common good, of us, and to the rest of the world, to whom we may be able to help, or trade, or ally ourselves with. By in large, the PEOPLE of America, don't 'HATE' any segmented group of anyone on the map...other than those who, through propaganda, we are 'taught' to hate, resent,(etc. etc.)
What is happening, though, by this administration, AND PREVIOUS ONES, AS WELL, is the pass, that they give, not to the just the 'rich', but to the very people corrupting them, and well as us as a nation, in their quest to usurp power AWAY from our very form of government, and make way for THEIR preferential treatment, to implement 'laws' and favors, to accommodate THEIR wills, which often intrudes on the rights, of WE, as a people! In this matter, you have NO argument!!
That being said, let's not confuse, REAL issues with trumped up phony issues, not based on fact, but rather on the laying a premise, for yet another, basis for constraining us, taking AWAY more of our freedom and liberty, for their profits and power over our lives!!!
I have NO issues, with the 'rich', if they earned it, and earned it legitimately, without imposing their wills on other people's rights!

Regards,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 03:37 PM

Correction: On Libya, whether we belong to an alliance or not, we still have to go to Congress, whether you like it or not. After all, they do, or are suppose to handle the funding....something this administration seems not to give a shit about, for any number of 'programs'. Agree?

'Libya' to replace 'Afghanistan'

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 03:59 PM

If today is like yesterday (Sunday) the United States military will kill people in 5 (five) sovereign countries, all dominated by followers of Islam.

Yes, Obama is Commander in Chief and he is responsible for what our fighting men do.

He is overdue in asking Congress to approve our actions in Lybia and Yemen.

If he were a Republican and we had a Democrat-controlled Congress, there would be talk of impeachment.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 04:21 PM

". . . at least you stated them, without your usual name calling. . . ."

Sweet Aunt Fanny!! THAT from YOU!???

"On Afghanistan, whether we belong to an alliance or not, we still have to go to Congress. . . ."

DO buy a world atlas and study it. That was LIBYA I was talking about.

"Then you might consider stopping your relentless support of 'causes' that are found to be in error!"

Which causes are those, GfS? You don't know what causes I support, so what are you popping off about?

Neither bragging nor complaining, GfS. Just saying.

What "rose colored glasses" are those?

AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON.

You see? There you go. Yapping safely behind the fence with nothing really to say other that how smart you are and what a hopeless ignoramus I am. And in your yapping, you're just repeating the same old stuff. Why should I waste my time trying to discuss things with you? You just try to twist everything into a put-down or an insult.

Okay. I'll walk off. And you can have the reassurance that your yapping has frightened me off.

I'll go and have a more intelligent conversation with my neighbor's little Yorkie.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 06:02 PM

So, those who think there's no terrorism in the Tea Party have yet to address the guns at town hall meetings and the racial slurs screamed at Congresspeople. Are these quasi-terrorist activities, or not? If not, why not? What about their desire to force their religious/moral values on the rest of us?

On the non-terrorist economic front, also unaddressed is the cut cut cut taxes philosophy. How does this work, if we still want to fund our government? How does the desire to do away with regulation of the financial markets not play into the hands of greedy fatcats who buy our Congresspeople and force their "make me even richer" policies down our throats?

GfS, I agree with most of what you have said about the corporate takeover of America. How do the economic policies of the Tea Party address that problem?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 07:01 PM

Excellent question, John! I await the answer with bated breath.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 07:46 PM

The Tea Party has no answer for that... I know these people... They hate government until they need it and then they can't get enough of it and are pissed off when they find that Medicare is only going to pay 90 days for Mama's long-care and that after that Mama is going to have to pay out of the money that Bubba thought he was going to inherit...

Talk about anti-government... Bubba is ready to kill some sumabich because there just ain't enough government out there for anti-government Bubba when he ***wants*** it???

This is the Tea Party right down the line...

Ignorant people with simplistic views of the worlds and simplistic solutions to complex problems...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 11:42 PM

John P; "On the non-terrorist economic front, also unaddressed is the cut cut cut taxes philosophy. How does this work, if we still want to fund our government?"

OK, I'll answer each part individually. Much of the tax increases will be used to pay off the debt, and the increases that went to fund CORPORATE bailouts, to which are not being used to create jobs, as the American public was led to believe. Funding the government is one thing, funding crony supporters, who corrupt the government, is quite another! This, administration, as well as others before it, have superseded the will of their electorate, by funneling our resources to them, rather than facilitating the public, of whom they were elected to represent. In short, the government, which you and I are supposed to be a part of, are now subject to globalist corporate dictates, with OUR money supporting them, rather than a representative government, carrying out the will OF THE PEOPLE, and taxing us, for the facilitation of those services. In even shorter, it is fraud!

John P: "How does the desire to do away with regulation of the financial markets not play into the hands of greedy fatcats who buy our Congresspeople and force their "make me even richer" policies down our throats?"

Doing away with the regulations that limit excessive corrupting practices, I would not support. Leaving freedom to expand and develop, businesses and technology, or to invent, I would like to see relaxed, but within the parameters of the already existing anti-monopoly, anti-trust laws, which BTW, are not enforced, as long as they DO NOT intrude on the rights of others, to do the same..nor should they be used to keep competing smaller entrepreneurs, from doing the same.
All to often, some corporation, with its money and influencing power, get their fingers on our elected officials throats, to look another way, and pass legislation creating a loophole, from which the business(es), use leverage to foist upon the public, a new 'law', or artificially create a demand, in which that said business forces the public to HAVE to patronize their business, or service. This practice should be illegal, and enforced, as such!.....speaking of which...
The medical profession: We have heard that Medicaid is in financial trouble, and needs to be replaced with this new Health Care crap. First of all, Medicaid is OK..EXCEPT for the fraud, which is said to have risen the cost(conservatively speaking), to at least 35%. would see to it that ANY medical office, agent, doctor, hospital, clinic, laboratory, pharmacy, or any related attorneys, or accounting offices found involved in defrauding the government(us), would face stiff criminal charges, including the shutting down of such said practices, and mandatory jail time! The same goes for insurance companies, financial institutions, or legal services!! We have enough 'laws' on the books..how about enforcing them....and by the way, any government official found NOT enforcing them, due to a 'special interest', which goes contrary to the law, would immediately face, not only removal from that position, but restitution, and jail time..regardless of party affiliation, or tenure!! NO favors granted, when it comes to violating the trust that the people should have, in those looking out for us...on our nickle!! Fair enough?

As to the first question(s): "Are these quasi-terrorist activities, or not? If not, why not? What about their desire to force their religious/moral values on the rest of us?"

I think that people showing up with their guns waving in the air is just plain stupid. Whether it is a 'terrorist' activity would depend on what else they do with that gun. Any party should vigorously discourage those displays of anger, or threats. In most states, there are laws against, 'brandishing a weapon', and/or 'menacing'. If any party wants to gain supporters, they should do so legally. A little while back, on this forum, one particular(unnamed) member posted, "It's time to rise up.."..with connotations of violent revolution. I responded with a smarty pants remark "Get some Viagra". I did this only to discourage what could be seen as inflammatory seditious solicitations, coming from us, here on Mudcat!..not that I don't understand, or empathize with his feelings...(I did him a favor, mixed it with a little humor.. but he probably didn't take it that way...too bad!)

Although that may, or may not eventually happen, I don't think that is any less inflammatory that waving firearms in the air, or jacking rounds in the chamber! I do NOT support a violent overthrow of the government, however, that being said, I could see supporting one's own self defense. I WOULD support the government enforcing the very laws that would/could prevent an overthrow, due to people's frustration with loopholes and unenforced laws, causing people to think that an overthrow should be necessary. The anger that has risen in this country is mostly caused by government's corrupt dealings with corrupt 'special interests', and imposing their wills, over our rights! Perhaps a little less tolerance from our elected officials, of these practices would gladly be met by the support of the citizenry...you think??...a little exposure to the public, and a responding public outcry, may just get a momentum going, in that direction....regardless of party affiliation.

John P: "...What about their desire to force their religious/moral values on the rest of us?"

Muslims??????? Christians????? Unitarians??? Jehovah Witnesses???? Catholics??? Protestants??? Astrologists???? Buddhists???? Capitalists??? Communists??? Socialists??? Atheists??????!!?? ..and so on....?

I hope I was able to clarify your queries.

Regards to All!! (Please forgive any typos)

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 08:44 AM

If waving the guns has the effect that these boorish people want then it is terrorism...

Think about it, GfinS...

My mom, former civil right activist in her prime but now frail and 90 years old, makes the effort to get dressed up (gloves and all) and pushes herself (with a walker) to her car and drives 3 miles (which to her is like a 100 miles), parks, get out and walks a block (again with her walker) toward a "public meeting" and all for naught because the Tea Party goons are there scaring everyone away, that ***IS*** ...

...***TERRORISM***...

They don't have to shoot anyone, though that has also occurred but poorly reported because the right wing owns the media, to have used "terror" to have their way... If someone has been threatened that alone in many states is a crime because it is traumatic for the victim...

Like I have said, when the Tea Party denounces these tactics and apologizes to the folks they have victimized, then we have a new ball game... Right now, it's the same old ball game...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 09:58 AM

Democrats know that the Tea Party beliefs are those of most Americans and are a serious threat to their continuing control of power.

They have fabricated numerous events and staged stunts that are intended to make the Tea Part folks look bad. This is pure old Soviet propaganda.


by Kurt Nimmo

(April) 2010

House Majority Whip James Clyburn invoked civil rights era imagery to demonize opponents of Obamacare.

On March 20, Democrats and the corporate media launched a misleading propaganda offensive claiming Tea Party protesters in Washington spat on Missouri Democrat Emanuel Cleaver and hurled racial epithets at members of the Congressional Black Caucus as they walked to the Capitol to cast a vote on Obama's authoritarian health care bill.

"The congressman was walking into the Capitol to vote, when one protester spat on him. The congressman would like to thank the U.S. Capitol Police officer who quickly escorted the other Members and him into the Capitol, and defused the tense situation with professionalism and care," said Danny Rotert, a spokesman for Cleaver.

In fact, nobody spat on Cleaver. He wandered too close to a screaming protester and was hit by flying saliva. The "N" word cannot be heard in either of the videos below, although it is difficult to tell what beyond "kill the bill" is being yelled at the Congress critters as they flaunted their power over the plebs.
"I have heard things today that I have not heard since March 15, 1960, when I was marching to get off the back of the bus," House Majority Whip James Clyburn, a South Carolina Democrat and the highest-ranking black official in Congress, told the CIA's favorite newspaper, the Washington Post.

Clyburn tried to turn attention away from the fact most Americans are opposed to Obamacare and more than a few were so outraged they traveled to Washington and yelled at House members who subsequently betrayed the Constitution and handed the government authoritarian power over millions of people. He even rolled in civil rights imagery in order to make his point and prevent rational opposition.

"A lot of us have been saying for a long time that much of this, much of this is not about health care a all. And I think a lot of those people today demonstrated that this is not about health care," he said, "it is about trying to extend a basic fundamental right to people who are less powerful."

One has to ask why members of the House decided to wander into a crowd of people opposed to a bill they were about to vote on. Congress critters usually use a tunnel in order to avoid the commoners. But on this "historical" day they waded directly into a hostile crowd.

Is there a reason for this? Of course. It was a propaganda stunt designed by Democrats. They were well aware of the people gathered outside upset over Obama's totalitarian care. The imagery was nearly perfect for their purposes — a crowd of howling mostly white people confronting a small number of black people. It would reaffirm what Chris Matthews and other corporate media apologists for state power have said for months — opposition to Obamacare (or anything the government does) is racist. The complaisant corporate media inserted the accusation of racism in the argument at exactly the right time. It was all part of a well orchestrated plan.

Democrats like to pretend Republicans and their compromised Tea Party followers are responsible for a brick thrown through the window of Rep. Slaughter's office and other incidents of minor property damage. Is it possible Democrats orchestrated these events as part of their effort to demonize opposition to Obamacare?

Recall the case of Maurice Schwenkler in Denver. Schwenkler, who is a "transgender" activist connected to the SEIU supported group Colorado Citizens Coalition, was arrested for smashing eleven windows at the Democrat headquarters last year. "While Schwenkler does not appear in the state's voter registration database, a person by that name in November 2008 received $500 from a political 527 committee called Colorado Citizens Coalition for 'communications,' according to campaign finance disclosures," the Denver Post reported.

Did Schwenkler attack the Democrats because he opposes Obamacare? Hardly. It was an attempt to blame those opposed to Obamacare and make them look like violent thugs. Fortunately, Schwenkler was caught by the cops and the real story came out. The truth, however, was dwarfed by the initial sensationalistic story and the insinuation of Tea Party activists gone wild. News reports of Schwenkler's real motivation were greeted by the sound of crickets.

SEIU thugs attacked Tea Party protesters at a Rep. Russ Carnahan town hall in St. Louis around the same time. "Union thugs viciously attacked a patriot, Kenneth Gladney, who was handing out Gadsen flags outside the stage-managed event. The St. Louis Tea Party was also demonstrating against Democrats attempting to force Obamacare through Congress," Infowars.com reported on August 7, 2009.

Did Tea Party activists beat up members of the Congressional Black Caucus? No. In fact, they did not even spit on them as the Democrats claim.

Fortunately, Democrat and "progressive" efforts to portray Tea Party activists and millions of ordinary Americans outraged over Obama's authoritarian health care "reform" as brick-toting and gas line cutting neanderthals will continue to fall flat.

Fifty-four percent of surveyed Americans oppose Obamacare and only 41% approve, according to a Rasmussen Reports poll conducted on March 21. "Among insured Americans, 82 percent rate their health coverage positively. Among insured people who've experienced a serious or chronic illness or injury in their family in the last year, an enormous 91 percent are satisfied with their care, and 86 percent are satisfied with their coverage," ABC News reported last October.

Demonizing the opposition as crazed "teabaggers" and white supremacist militia members will not change the broad and growing opposition to Obamacare and a tyrannical government growing by leaps and bounds. Chris Matthews' diatribes and bully boy interview tactics will change little.

Democrats are in trouble and this will become obvious in November during the midterm elections. Let's hope the outrage does not benefit the Republicans who are the right shoe to the Democrats' left shoe on the same corrupt and authoritarian body politic.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 10:20 AM

the Tea Party beliefs are those of most Americans

Not by any objective standard in this universe, PeeDee. That statement exceeds even your usual level of delusional bullshit.

And the opinion of a somewhat unstable libertarian blogger Nimmo written over a year ago is relevant how, exactly?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 10:28 AM

John P: "...What about their desire to force their religious/moral values on the rest of us?"

Muslims??????? Christians????? Unitarians??? Jehovah Witnesses???? Catholics??? Protestants??? Astrologists???? Buddhists???? Capitalists??? Communists??? Socialists??? Atheists??????!!?? ..and so on....?

I hope I was able to clarify your queries.

Not so much on this question. Your answer doesn't address the issue at all. The Tea Party is overwhelmingly Christian, although the specific religion isn't important. The fact is that the Tea Party is in favor of writing their religious values into law. Abortion, gay marriage, and teaching religion in science classrooms are three of the most visible examples. Do you support this group's desire to legislate their moral beliefs? While it is non-violent, forcing others to live according to their religion seems like a form of terrorism. Can you explain how it isn't?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 07:13 PM

No, she can't, John...

Here in North Carolina just about every white kid attends a private Christian school so we are getting another batch of brain-washed fundamentalists to contend with down the road...

The problem I have is that, being a Follower of Christ, these folks conveniently skip over the parts of Christianity that doesn't serve their dogmatism... In other words, they are part Christian, part something else (Taliban comes to mind)...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 01:07 PM

GfS, Thank you for the clear statement of where you stand on many of the Tea Party issues that have been batted around in this thread. I find myself in agreement with most of what you said. What strikes me, though, is that while you share most of the goals of the Tea Party, you don't seem to be in agreement with their methodology.

With the exception of a few Republican ideologues on Mudcat, I think most of us agree that our government is in the hands of people we never elected and who manipulate our public policy for their personal gain. Far too many of our politicians are basically paid employees of large and corrupt corporations. I think we mostly agree that this is ruining our country and that we would like it to end. The way the Tea Party wants to go about it, however, is simplistic, unrealistic, uncompromising, combative, and actually plays into the hands of the corporations. And then their message is all mixed up with a coercive religious social agenda, which is where you and I part company on their goals.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Jun 11 - 01:08 AM

Blowhard Bobert ducks another straight up question while claiming others need to answer his. I presume he will duck this question also

---

The Southern Manifesto was a document written in 1956 by pro-segregation legislators angry that the Supreme Court had passed the Brown v. Board of Education decision, which mandated the integration of public schools. It was signed by 19 Senators and 81 members of the House of Representatives, including the entire congressional delegations of the states of Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi and South Carolina. Most of the signatories were Southern Democrats. The signers of the Southern Manifesto were afraid that the racial hierarchy -- with whites on the top and blacks and other persons of color below them -- would be irrevocably harmed by Brown and other Supreme Court decisions. They were pro-segregation because they were white supremacists, and white supremacy was normative in the 1950s.

Signers:

    John Sparkman (D)                  Lister Hill (D)                  William Fulbright (D)                John L. McClellan (D)
    George A. Smathers (D)          Spessard Holland (D)    Walter F. George (D)                Richard B. Russell (D)
    Allen J. Ellender (D)                  Russell B. Long (D)       James O. Eastland (D)             John Stennis (D)
    Samuel Ervin (D)                      W. Kerr Scott (D)          Strom Thurmond (D)                Olin D. Johnston (D)
    Price Daniel (D)                      Harry F. Byrd (D)          A. Willis Robertson (D)             George W. Andrews (D)
    Frank W. Boykin (D)                Carl Elliott (D)                George M. Grant (D)                George Huddleston, Jr. (D)
    Robert E. Jones, Jr. (D)          Albert Rains (D)             Kenneth A. Roberts (D)            Armistead Selden (D)
    Ezekiel C. Gathings (D)            Oren Harris (D)             Brooks Hays (D)                      Wilbur D. Mills (D)
    William F. Norrell (D)               James W. Trimble (D)    Charles Edward Bennett (D)      James A. Haley (D)
    Albert Herlong, Jr. (D)             D.R. Matthews (D)         Paul G. Rogers (D)                  Robert L. F. Sikes (D)
    Iris F. Blitch (D)                      Paul Brown (D)               James C. Davis (D)                John James Flynt, Jr. (D)
    Tic Forrester (D)                   Phil M. Landrum (D)         Henderson Lanham (D)          J. L. Pilcher (D)
    Prince H. Preston (D)             Carl Vinson (D)                Hale Boggs (D)                      Overton Brooks (D)
    F. Edward Hebert (D)             George S. Long (D)          James H. Morrison (D)          Otto E. Passman (D)
    T. Ashton Thompson (D)       Edwin E. Willis (D)            Thomas G. Abernethy (D)       William M. Colmer (D)
    Frank E. Smith (D)                Jamie L. Whitten (D)         John Bell Williams (D)          Arthur Winstead (D)
    Hugh Q. Alexander (D)          Graham A. Barden (D)       Herbert C. Bonner (D)          Frank Carlyle (D)
    Carl Durham (D)                  Lawrence Fountain (D)       Woodrow W. Jones (D)       George A. Shuford (D)
    Robert T. Ashmore (D)         W.J. Bryan Dorn (D)          John L. McMillan (D)            James P. Richards (D)
    John J. Riley (D)                L. Mendel Rivers (D)            Jere Cooper (D)                Clifford Davis (D)
    James B. Frazier, Jr. (D)    Tom J. Murray (D)             Wright Patman (D)             John Dowdy (D)
    Walter Rogers (D)               O. C. Fisher (D)                  Martin Dies, Jr. (D)             Joel T. Broyhill (R)
    Richard Harding Poff (R)

Question: How many of these racists switched to the Republican party?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Jun 11 - 01:40 AM

Whenever someone starts a post by calling someone else a "blowhard" or with some other personal insult, I make it a point NOT to read the rest of the post. That tells me all I need to know about the character and intellect of the poster.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Jun 11 - 08:52 AM

Question: How many of these racists switched to the Republican party?

No, the questions are:

1. 1956? Gimmie a bleepin' break.

2. How many of these racists abjured their former views and when?

2. Why aren't the home-grown Republican racists (and authors and implementers of "The Southern Strategy" of a much more recent date equally if not more important?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Jun 11 - 11:23 AM

Looks like no one here knows anything about the "shitload" of Dixiecrats that switched to the Republican party.

Hint: The term refers to the 1948 States' Rights Democratic Party.

A blowhard is a person who does not back up their assertions except with ad hominem [logical fallacy] attacks. To avoid responding, they start a new blowhard attack.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Jun 11 - 11:35 AM

"We have all planned to assult you by arriving at your house and putting a nice little bullet in your head"

email sent March 9th:

From: Left Wing Maniac Government Hater
Sent: Wed 3/9/2011 9:18 PM
To: Sen.Kapanke; Sen.Darling; Sen.Cowles; Sen.Ellis; Sen.Fitzgerald; Sen.Galloway; Sen.Grothman; Sen.Harsdorf; Sen.Hopper; Sen.Kedzie; Sen.Lasee; Sen.Lazich; Sen.Leibham; Sen.Moulton; Sen.Olsen
Subject: Atten: Death threat!!!! Bomb!!!!

Please put your things in order because you will be killed and your familes will also be killed due to your actions in the last 8 weeks. Please explain to them that this is because if we get rid of you and your families then it will save the rights of 300,000 people and also be able to close the deficit that you have created. I hope you have a good time in hell. Read below for more information on possible scenarios in which you will die.

WE want to make this perfectly clear. Because of your actions today and in the past couple of weeks I and the group of people that are working with me have decided that we've had enough. We feel that you and the people that support the dictator have to die. We have tried many other ways of dealing with your corruption but you have taken things too far and we will not stand for it any longer. So, this is how it's going to happen: I as well as many others know where you and your family live, it's a matter of public records. We have all planned to assult you by arriving at your house and putting a nice little bullet in your head. However, we decided that we wouldn't leave it there. We also have decided that this may not be enough to send the message to you since you are so high on Koch and have decided that you are now going to single handedly make this a dictatorship instead of a demorcratic process. So we have also built several bombs that we have placed in various locations around the areas in which we know that you frequent. This includes, your house, your car, the state capitol, and well I won't tell you all of them because that's just no fun. Since we know that you are not smart enough to figure out why this is happening to you we have decided to make it perfectly clear to you. If you and your goonies feel that it's necessary to strip the rights of 300,000 people and ruin their lives, making them unable to feed, clothe, and provide the necessities to their families and themselves then We Will get rid of (in which I mean kill) you. We feel that it's worth our lives to do this, because we would be saving the lives of 300,000 people. Please make your peace with God as soon as possible and say goodbye to your loved ones we will not wait any longer. YOU WILL DIE!!!!

---

Wisconsin Teacher Charged With Death Threats Against Lawmakers

Wisconsin teacher Katherine Windels has been charged with sending death misspelled threats to 16 GOP lawmakers because she was angry that they were imposing financial responsibility that crimped her lifestyle.

    Windels also wrote to Cowles that there were several bombs placed in various locations, including his house, his car, and the state capitol, according to the complaint.

    I don't want to tell you all of them because that's just no fun,
the e-mail said.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Jun 11 - 12:53 PM

Hey, I read it on the Internet- it MUST be true.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Jun 11 - 06:09 PM

I wasn't going to respond to the last posts, because the thread was getting stupider and stupider....and I may not, being as I'm wasting my time and talents, as others, to take the time to give certain things thought, and post.....to such block-headed numbskulls!!!!
I'm NOT a political animal, even though I can spot political bullshit, when it crosses my path!

Does the FACT that, when asked to reply or respond, to certain posts, that contain truths, that those who claim to be 'left wing liberals', come back with the stupidest shit on earth??? What is this?? A 'right wing conspiracy'??..or are those who claim to be 'liberal' that fucking stupid???..Either way, you're getting to be a very boring parody, of American politics!!..No wonder your music sucks! You are boring!
Sawzaw posts some legitimate comments, complete with facts and sources, and 'Bobert' comes back with some mindless shit about some old lady in a walker, who got spooked at large crowds, who may or may not have been chanting 'KKK'..or 'LBJ all the way'..who knows, maybe she forgot to turn on her hearing aid as well!!!...Oh??..It was your mother???..Oh, well she don't hear or comprehend to well either..and of course, the apple don't fall too far from the tree!..By the Way, if she is such a Dedicated Democratic Dimwit, (heretofore referred to as the 'DDD'S, being as your obvious lower education didn't see any reason to move any further along up the alphabet), Why was she there in the first place?? Curiosity? Fault finding expedition by walker? Complete happiness with the Dumbocratic party??, looking for a hot politically-minded date? Just WHY did she go??..Not that it even matters. Do you think the KKK chanting shit, might have something to do with the 'rally' being held in the south??..as both Sawzaw, and myself pointed out, Sawzaw being far more detailed about the ingrained, inbred, intolerant, insane bigotry there???

For what its worth, during my little hiatus from Mudcat, I used that opportunity, to, in my spare time, go visit with some people who are Tea Supporter or sympathizers, of the same. While picking their brains, looking to find some sort of racial bias, I found none...SOOO, I tried casually muttering a few racial and ethnic slurs, looking for a re-action. Remember now, I'm NOT in the south. What I got was sharp rebukes, and this verbatim question, "Are you one of those Democratic agitators?.. because if so, you can leave now!".........Just for your info, there, ol' boy!
I did explain to them, that I was just 'testing the waters', and do not have those feelings, myself.
Therefore, YOU might address Sawzaw's comments with something that entails some THOUGHT, instead of one of your typical avoidance-based subject changers. It may slightly dawn on you, that IF you can't come up with a suitable answer, that at least has SOME truth in it, then you might consider what a FRIEND(Sawzaw) is trying to turn you on to..OK?

Then, there is this little ditty. The Titanic is taking on water..real bad....people are scrambling to find lifeboats or life jackets, and the crew is swamped. The Captain (Smith), is frantically, trying to address the problems ad mists the chaos...Too many people, too little lifeboats, failure that is going to lose lives, ultra high intensity shouting, and panic, finger pointing and blaming....and John P comes up, in a frantic, nervous 'beside himself manner' and his main concern, that he stops everything, and blurts, "What I really want to know is, "If Auckie Dildoc, and Lesbia O'Toole would be accepted by the church's children's youth choir, if their pink cufflinks clash with the doilies, at tomorrow's church lunch, in the ship's chapel?"
The discussion WAS about the sinking economy, the dissolving U.S., corruption and because of it, our government being rendered ineffectual to the will, or needs of the people....and is there enough lifeboats!
I almost didn't post that, because John, was, at least, aware enough to agree that we share the same identification of the problems facing our peoples versus the huge international banker fraud being foisted on us all......but, nonetheless, it is what it is...So, in fairness to John: John, there are forms of 'governments' out there in the real world who see homosexuality as a reason for the death penalty..we DON'T want to lose ours!!! ....Do you??

As to Don Firth, Don, I wouldn't risk what little credibility you have left, trying to support, obviously fucked up positions, as the ones I mentioned above. Getting together with Bobert, working up strategies, to getting Bobert to answer questions, all for the sake of the 'Potty Line', I would think is below even you....but then again, it's not up to me which nail you choose to put in your coffin.

Fair Enough??
Love to All......even if I don't post again to this rapidly disintegrating thread! By the way, It WAS started, on a stupid premise, and is certainly dying that way....thanks to its originator!..who just wanted a place to spread his ignorant hate and biases. Thank goodness it got revealed for what it IS and WAS!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Jun 11 - 07:11 PM

What the hell are you talking about, GfS?

I could eat a large can of alphabet soup and shit a more coherent post than that!

Don Firth

P. S.   By the way, as to whether the Tea Party is a terrorist organization or not, read my post on the 2012 Presidential Election thread in response to someone's suggestion that we should all read more Ayn Rand.    Read and learn.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Jun 11 - 07:19 PM

Paul Ryan thinks we should all do the same....Is there a point, hidden somewhere in all this??

Don, I wasn't criticizing you, other than 'teaming up' with Bobert, in support of his ducking and weaving, questions and topics that he dodges!! You would think that he should have the courtesy and politeness to at least answer some of the replies, and questions put to him, form someone else who is polite enough to ask, don't you think? I mean, he is from the south..where is his southern 'hospitality'??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq
Date: 26 Jun 11 - 08:16 PM

Propaganda Minister Firth would have us believe that Ayn Rand must be absolutely perfect in every way before we can take any of her ideas seriously. Too bad he doesn't hold his of heros us to the same standards.

The far Left is already using Ayn Rand to drive a wedge between Christians and Paul Ryan. She was a vocal Athiest, but certainly did not work against Christians. Looks like his enemies cannot take Paul Ryan on with issues so the find some other way to cause damage.

One thing that gives Ayn Rand depth is that she lived in Russia during the Bolshevik Revolution and her father's family business was seized (along with the building, which the family also owned) and their property was given to Red's loyal friends. Rand's family was left impoverished and fled to another city in fear for their lives. She new exctly what can happen when a government has unlimited power.

Rand wanted a fair and free country and a chance to succede. She found both in the good ol' U. S. of A.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Jun 11 - 08:22 PM

Yeah, Don, that was about as delusional as GfinS has ever been... I mean, Olympic Team horse manure...

Absolutely delusional...

I mean, she and her new buddy, Sawz, are two peas in a pod...

I mean, really no responding to either where you aren't going to get pure USDA Choice horse manure back...

Neither want to admit the reality that out of the 3000 or so faces on the front page of the Washington Post after the Tea Party rally that their were *****NO***** black people in the crowd... Hey, black folks have been thru stuff that neither GfinS or her buddy, Sawz, have an inkling about and black people understand this stuff... No black faces out of 3000 supposedly cross-section of America???

Give my boney ol' hillbilly butt a break... I might have been born at night but it wasn't last night...

And here's the kicker... Niether GfinS or Sawz ever want to talk about real policies... They want to play fuckin' games, talk endlessly about stuff they have no knowledge of and try to make me some bad man for calling them on their ballgames...

Tough... You gonna post stupid stuff then y6er gonna have to listen to the sermon... Can I get an "Amen"...

BTW, GfinS... My mom is 1000 times more knowledgeable about world and events economics than you and Sawz put together... You don't think so??? Have yer buddy LH act as an intermediary and I'll get you her phone number and you can call her up... Yeah, tell her just how wonderful your new racist Tea Party friend are for starters... And be prepared to get a lesson what the civil rights movement wasd about...

Right now, I doubt if you get it in the slightest...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Jun 11 - 10:45 PM

Ayn Rand, for the record, was a complete nut ball... John Galt is a friggin' Mad Max "After the Thunderdome"... Problem is there ain't no "Thunderdome" unless ya'll let Ayn and her psycho pals out of the "thunderdome" long enough to establish the chaos that the right wing salivates for...

Problem is that "the thunderdome" ain't what most reasonable people want for their kids...

Rand and the Repubs??? Different story... It's all a lie on their part... They have manipulated the powers-at-be too far already... A true Rand scenario can't work in such a corrupted system...

90% corrupted now by Repubs!!! 10% the Dems...

Get 'um all but get the biggest share out first...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Jun 11 - 11:50 PM

...ahhhh, but GfinS will say it's "on both sides" (as a Tea Partier, mind you) never being willing to admit that the Tea Party is the far right of the Republican Party...

Just the facts...

In other words the friggin' E-X-T-R-E-M-E right,,,

Ya' got some good company there with "Stalker" Sawzer...

BTW, has he offered to send you one of his "SawzBeanies", you know, ahhhh, the Sawz designed tin-foil hat??? ("Buy one now and we'll send you a second one for a penny...")

Tell him to send you the 2nd one for the penny....

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Jun 11 - 01:30 AM

So! pdq is a big fan of Ayn Rand. That explains a lot!

Past my bedtime, folks. I'll be back.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Jun 11 - 01:32 AM

Oh Bobert??..You're still not having the decency to answer any of the questions put to you, after your rants!!..just more off the topic ranting, as usual! Too bad if you got your knickers in a twist, but that might not happen if you'd just carry on a decent exchange, instead of 'going off', so to speak! Try it..It won't hurt! Just try backing up at least something you just make up...or your Democrat 'thinkers'(?)!
Hey I got something for you, as long as you're not prejudiced, and are all 'souled out' for the 'clean as a whistle' party of whiners:

JESSE JACKSON'S NEWEST STAFF MEMBER

You can't make up stuff better than this!
Isn't politics grand?
HURRAH FOR THE DEMOCRATS!
Jesse Jackson's Newest Staff Member

Mel Reynolds
Jesse Jackson has added former Chicago Democrat
Congressman Mel to Rainbow/PUSH Coalition's payroll.
Reynolds was among the 176 criminals excused
in President Clinton's last-minute forgiveness spree.
Reynolds received a commutation of his six-and-a-half-year
federal sentence for 15 convictions of wire fraud, bank fraud,
and lies to the Federal Election Commission.
He is more notorious, however, for concurrently serving
five years for sleeping with an underage campaign volunteer.
This is a first in American politics:
An ex-congressman who had sex with a subordinate
... won clemency from a president who had sex with a subordinate
... then was hired by a clergyman who had sex with a subordinate!
His new job? Ready for this?
YOUTH COUNSELOR
IS THIS A GREAT COUNTRY OR WHAT?
CONFIRMED BY:

Democrat holiness!!

I just had an epiphany. We tax politicians every time they have sex with a subordinate or otherwise commit adultery.
We could pay down that stinkin' deficit in 10 years.

Now, what was it you were going to answer Sawzw, or me, in response to our posts????

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jun 11 - 08:25 AM

No, GfinS...

I have answered every reasonable question put forward...

Ya'll just don't like the answers...

B~

BTW, I don't read Sawz posts anymore... He suffers from a serious case of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder which goes back years as one name after another here in the Mudpit but the one thing that he carries forwards every time he reinvents himself is the same mindless ballgame of obsessing on me... He needs a shrink... You ain't far behind... But I do still read yer stuff... But his??? Nope and other than you I don't think anyone else in Mudburg reads anything he has to cut 'n post...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Jun 11 - 12:36 PM

The question to be presented to the Tea Party is this: How much freedom do you really want? And what is the nature of that freedom?

Without government regulation of business (which it still does) and protection against health abuses by corporations, the lack of funds for building of roads and infrastructure (no Tea Party people are going to fund that), the chiseling of credit card companies, diminishing the role of bailout banks (robber banks instead of bank robbers), the curbing of the enormous profiteers from war, what kind of freedom are they talking about?

There is and has never been totally personal freedom and only would-be anarchists would advocate for that. The inherent logic of the Tea Party would lead to abolishing prison systems, an encroachment of personal "freedoms", resolving in no one paying taxes, which would excise revenue to do anything for the good of the country but leave only a token for the individual who would not be able to function without a government, and have to build his/her own roads, forget mailing letters through the post office, protect themselves by arming against everyone, eating unregulated food, constantly acquiring money for personal needs at the expense of the enjoyment of leisure, no five day work week, no vacation times, no protective unions, and a general sinking into a John Wayne Ayn Rand Distopia, and you call that "freedom"? I call it madness and selfishness.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jun 11 - 01:19 PM

They are clueless about what "freedom" means, Strings... They think it means that ***they*** have the freedom to ram their radical and short-sighted agenda down everyone else's throats???

Like I said... "clueless"...

But it doesn't stop with freedom... They also want ***their*** country back??? Back to what??? Back to 1952??? 1859??? 1789??? I mean, thes are completely empty words which may make these racists feel better but but they are meaningless...

Clueless again...

They want government out of their lives??? This a good one... Half the stuff they want puts more government into our lives... The other half they just cherry pick for their own personal biases and prejudices...

More cluelessness...

It's astounding just how empty the Tea Party really...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Jun 11 - 01:29 PM

OOOPS, forgot to sign the end of the other one.........


Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Jun 11 - 01:23 PM

Oh Dearest Bobert,
What is this?? You've answered, or even commented on mine??? Now, come on, this is beginning to get obvious to everyone, that this is a pattern of yours. Hey, YOU started the thread, and when people get on, and post to your topic, don't you think it would be decent of you to respond to them, other than jumping around, like a epileptic step dancer, to avoid responding to 'Something', that you've been indoctrinated to wag your tail at, although, it has been revealed, to be just another, policy, through each respected party, working for the mega-bankers(et al),..to whom you claim to oppose??......and now you're sounding like the 'guilty party, of having your spouse walk in on you, suspecting another lover, and you're the guilty one, trying to keep her from looking in the closet!!'

Come on, now, we love ya', talk to us and be honest, and open. The EXCHANGE of ideas, that are true, is a currency of its own. Talk 'bout WEALTHY!!......(tax free, too!).

You can talk to Sawzaw, too..and Sawzaw exchange that what is true, and if stuff 'don't line up', then find out 'WHY?'...instead of playing this game of 'point the fingers' then 'hide and seek'. The object of your thread was to come to a truth about 'Something'...wasn't it???? ...'Something' That might just require a little 'give AND take'.....and maybe even a little INFORMATION, that you didn't know before, and vice-verse!

Now if you want me to connect certain dots for ya', that keeps you unable to process that info, and vice-versa, and you find that same inability, creeps into your music,(which it does), I can 'oblige' you...ain't that what friends are for, anyway??

As far as the TEA Party, they are either a 'legitimate' grass roots deal, or a 'concocted' grass roots deal, or even a 'co-opted' grass roots deal, the FACT is, it's APPEAL was to all those who are dissatisfied by the way politics has fucked up the lives of a lot of people, and they are terrified at what they see. They are made up of a whole lot of people, formerly FROM BOTH SIDES.....( maybe you should have titled the thread, "The Tea Party a TERRIFIED Organization??
They are a RE-ACTION, to OBVIOUS abuses of power and trust of the American people defecting from Both parties...and especially to the Democrats, of this administration, and voted that way, in which the DEMS LOST Congress...by a landslide!!..Now that is pretty factual....I AM NOT A TEA PARTIER!!.....(But I understand their people's frustration)

I AM NOT A DEMOCRAT...I found them, basing too many political blather based on shit scientifically just plain FALSE!(They are too easily emotionally controlled, among other things, too).

I AM NOT A REPUBLICAN either. I believe that they too, are working to, and for, the same guys who the Democrats are working for...and it ISN'T us!!

I think they play off each other, to give the ILLUSION that there is a problem to solve(that they created in the first place), from the other side, of course, and with each bullshit 'problem' comes a bullshit 'solution', which normally the American people on EITHER SIDE would have NEVER gone for originally!!....LOOK AT WHERE WE ARE!!..as a result of this bullshit....and you're going to tell me that your side of the bullshit that you support, is better, or 'less corrupt' than your counterparts??? THIS, is what you want people to swallow???

Being NOT a political animal, I DON'T HAVE A POLITICAL AGENDA!!..although, I certainly would promote people to demand honesty, from our elected officials...(which seems to be in it's own economic crisis as well)!..but first find honesty in themselves....and let THAT guide their reality!...regardless of what is politically popular! That shit changes faster than a chameleon flying over a double rainbow!...and the 'news' media explains it all away, and keeps us calm enough to 'just' have these 'controlled differences'!!

I AM COMPLETELY UNAFFILIATED WITH ANY PARTY!!!..(You'd think Don would appreciate that). Too me, the 'political imperialism' which is gripping the country, seems to have too many dulling effects on the senses, that are more important, and require more discipline to maintain..but the 'payoff' is priceless! ...and if you are REALLY serious about what you express, through your ax, the rising above 'concocted political problems', and 'other' impediments to people moving into their rightful fulness, should be a Delight, and Joy!

Don't let your 'friends', nor 'political beliefs' be an anchor to
your mediocrity!

Now, did that hurt??
Care to comment....after the other over-due comments..or before??

Warmest Regards,

Guest from Sanity

There!

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Jun 11 - 02:55 PM

Now HERE"S an example of an 10 year old girl, paying attention to the finest details, and what she is doing...WITHOUT political crap on her mind!!!

Well, you always DID like my music links.....

Just 'Exchanging'!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Jun 11 - 05:21 PM

11 years old, actually, at the time of the taping of this concert (presented on PBS's "Great Performances" a week or so ago). I worry a bit about Jackie Evancho. She has an extraordinary singing voice, and as I understand it, she went to a production of "Phantom of the Opera" at the age of eight, got really turned on to singing, and came out with this BIG, mature sounding voice. And she loves to sing.

But many a talented young singer has been launched into a professional concert career MUCH too soon, when they should be nurturing and gently training their voice and not trying to push it into areas beyond it's capabilities before it's mature enough to handle it.

Operatic arias, such as O mio babbino caro from Puccini's comic opera "Gianni Schicchi" (with which she shot into prominence) is a fairly easy aria and well within her capabilities, but something like Nessun Dorma from Puccini's "Turandot" is totally inappropriate for her voice on a couple of counts. First, it was written for a tenor (the part of Calàf in the opera), and second, it is not a very easy aria to sing, even for a full-voiced tenor (signature piece for Luciano Pavarotti). I did notice, however, that she sang a much abbreviated version of it.

I am especially dubious about David Foster, the record producer and promoter who seems to be "masterminding" her singing career—and choosing her repertoire (such as Nessun Dorma, not because it suits Jackie's voice, but because it's one lots of people, including non-opera fans, are familiar with).

I dunno. . . .   She's got a great career ahead of her if she doesn't blow her voice out early. That's happened to too many talented young singers.

But—

Back to our regular broadcast.

"I found them [Democrats], basing too many political blather based on shit scientifically just plain FALSE"

Uh—do you ever proof-read what you write, GfS?

GfS, it is possible to have a cohesive and integrated political philosophy without belonging to a political party. But it is much more common for people to know so little about politics, or the history of the country (you, know:   we tried that before and it either did or did not work), that all they can do is make their political choices (who and what to vote for) on a strictly emotional level, engendered by the lazy habit of listening to television rabble-rousers.

Another common mistake is to think that when one has voted, one's political duties are over. A famous President, when presented with a docket of actions that a number of people felt he should make to put the country on a more stable course, said, "I agree with you. Now, MAKE me do it!"

If you don't like what Obama is doing, or feel that he is not living up to his campaign promises, don't just sit there and bitch! Write! Telephone! Sign petitions! Talk to people! Simply pissing and moaning on this web site may make you feel like the Westbrook Pegler of Mudcat, but it doesn't do a damned bit of good. LEAN on him. Let him know what you want him to do! MAKE him do it!

(Gutless wonders!!)

As to Ayn Rand and her adoption by the Tea Party:

pdq uses a typical "framing" tactic in an attempt to draw question to anything I say by dubbing me "Propaganda Minister."   Then he proceeds to make false statements about what I believe.

A transparent debating tactic, pdq, and a cheap shot. That sort of thing merely indicates that you are aware of the weakness of your own position.

pdq's screed was in answer to a post I made on another thread to which I linked. If anyone is getting in on this late, here it is again:   CLICKY.

From pdq a few posts above:   "One thing that gives Ayn Rand depth is that she lived in Russia during the Bolshevik Revolution and her father's family business was seized (along with the building, which the family also owned) and their property was given to Red's loyal friends. Rand's family was left impoverished and fled to another city in fear for their lives. She new exctly what can happen when a government has unlimited power."

Rather than giving Ayn Rand (Alissa Rosenbaum) depth and understanding, this traumatic uprooting during her childhood marked her indelibly for the rest of her life, leaving her personality with an underlying theme of anger and resentment. She had a very dominating personality, ruled the people in her inner circle with an iron hand, brooked absolutely no question. Discussion with her was impossible. You sat at her feet and she made pronouncements. And she was totally devoid of humor. This I get from people who knew her personally.

The following is a very good article, a book review of a recently publish biography of Ayn Rand. It's a little over 2,000 words, but well worth a read.

Ayn Rand.

Good insights into the nature of the Patron Saint of the Tea Party.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Jun 11 - 06:04 PM

I agree with you about Evancho, and Foster...something about him is sooo 'wrong'. He seems to 'glomm' onto new talent, and screws them up, while trying to get the credit due the artist...as if he created their careers, and it was all due to him..not the God-given talents they already had!!....(sounds like 'far left' type of guy..huh?) You know, like the government is the one that gives us life, and equality, and tells US what we are 'entitled' to, or not!..who can have it..who can't...as long as they tax your existence, you can do about anything they'll allow you to do.....but don't forget to stay so busy, dealing with THEIR reality, that you won't spend time in your own, developing higher responsibility, for those things, that in reality, has more power and influence than they do..(Shhhhh, don't tell anyone!..)

Jeez! I wasn't going to go there...but, nonetheless its still a good analogy!

Now, what was I supposed to answer?....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Jun 11 - 06:40 PM

Oh, and no disagreement with your other stuff..to a point, that is.
I agree with you on Ayn Rand...in fact, reading Rand should never be confused with adopting her rap. Dr. Seuss should be taken more seriously!

Now to your point about, "But it is much more common for people to know so little about politics, or the history of the country (you, know:   we tried that before and it either did or did not work), that all they can do is make their political choices (who and what to vote for) on a strictly emotional level, engendered by the lazy habit of listening to television rabble-rousers."

What if their 'philosophical' views are limited by their political parameters, of reality? Don't you think that once you have to step outside that politically created reality, isn't it time to take notice?...once you find out that the politically correct reality, doesn't even come close to the vastness of the human 'experience'? in fact, quite limiting?..you know, "and come running for the shelter, of your mother's 'little helper'"(the 'nanny' state?)....especially a 'Nanny State' that IGNORES its Constitutional duties, then goes on to fuck with everything under the sun, EXCEPT what they are supposed to be doing? Do you believe that we, as citizens are as much protected, and looked out for, as say, the interests of the mega-corps, whose only concern, in regards to us, is how much they can squeeze us for everything to facilitate them???....and then go on a lying campaign to sell us that it is our 'Rights' to have us 'forced' to be their subjects??...for THEIR ENHANCED PROFITS??...Uh-uh!!
..and yes, I do know my history, and political history, as well....maybe not all the ones you cherry pick, and hold close to your bosom....but then, that's your trip....and it's OK..just as long as political 'wills' don't intrude on the individual's rights....which, basically,is what politics is about..and attempting to make it look 'palatable'.
Sorry..not interested in joining the 'enthusiastic lemming society'! Nor am I interested in subscribing to false premises, just to accommodate a political notion...AND....I can do that, without being a threat to the lemmings, can't I??..or not?? Does someone who doesn't buy their lies, really become a threat to them??...Maybe, yes...regardless of NO attempt to do so!
If we don't agree, find the truth. If the truth opens one's eyes, let's not be so accustomed to being blind, that the light hurts our eyes, for a moment, so we'd rather stay blind!!?!

Ooops. gotta be somewhere...see ya'..
Waves..

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: pdq
Date: 27 Jun 11 - 06:43 PM

Propaganda Minister Firth gives a link to a character assassination hit piece aimed at Ayn Rand. It was produced by a slick-paged NY magazine known to put forth only Left-wing opinion. Even the picture in most un-flattering.

I doubt that the Hemingway or Fitzgerald could be considered perfect people either, so by The Firth Standard, both of them trashed also.

The Tea Party is composed almost completely blue collar working people. White and Christian, for the most part, but many of them see the current administration as hostile to them while taking more and more of their wealth and freedom. They are the heart and soul of this country and they feel they now have very little say about the policies of our Federal government.

I really doubt that more than 1% of Tea Party followers have ever heard of Ms. Rand.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: John P
Date: 27 Jun 11 - 06:56 PM

From pdq: As long as the absolutely asinine title of this thread, and its basic assumptions, are allowed to stand, "anything goes" as far as posting since nobody can match such stupidity.

You seem to have missed a big part of the thread, the part where many of us were talking about a combination of racial slurs and guns starting to sound like the 60s in the deep south. If I hear a group calling black folks foul names and showing up at town hall meetings with guns, I start thinking about terrorism. Don't you? What else should I call it?

Sorry, but calling something stupid doesn't make it so, especially if you don't support your statements or make responses to people who post rebuttals of your positions.

So . . . do you want to have a real conversation or should we just write you off as a waste of time?

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: frogprince
Date: 27 Jun 11 - 06:58 PM

"I really doubt that more than 1% of Tea Party followers have ever heard of Ms. Rand."
That may be just about precisely true, and if it is:

1.It indicates that 99% of the Tea Party constituency are markedly less politically and philosophically literate than the average adult American.
2. It indicates that that same constituency have no grasp of where the political ideaologies they are stumping for come from.

Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jun 11 - 08:52 PM

Well, first of all, thanks GfinS fir the music... Unfortunately, my computer ain't in the mood to play anything... And I don't have enough hours in the day to mess with it... I mean, as if my messin' with it would make it work???

Secondly, GfinS, while you may think that you are so "classless and free" you are aligning yourself with the radical and emotional right of the Republican Party with the Tea Party... That is what it is.. No real arguments there among people who understand political movements... It is the Republican equivalent of the Dixiecrats back in the late 40s... Same folks... Same, "Both parties suck"... Same, same, same... Now you buddy, Sawz, doesn't believe the Dixiecrats ever existed because his computer is so stacked with right winged garbage that when he tries to do a search all he gets is right winged garbage... Maybe you didn't realize that that is the way computer do these days but they do...

As for Ayn Rand??? As I have eluded to John Galt in "Atlas Shrugged" is Mel Gibson in "Mad Max, After the Thunderdome"... Maybe the Republican Party would like to see Americans knee deep in pig poo (and they probably would love it) most Americans don't want to be knee deep in pig poo...

That's why the Tea Party and it's Mother Ship have completely blow any chances of winning any more big elections... The American people are on to their vision... And that vision has nothing to do with:

1. Freedom
2. Getting one's country back
3. Getting government out of our lives...

Nope, it isn't about that... It is 100% about what the Koch Brothers (major polluters) and Dick Armey's Freedom Works (health insurance companies) want which is letting the corporations run roughshod over the working class and keeping the redistribution of wealth going upward...

That's the real story here... The rest is mindless BS that the Koch Bros and Armey stick in ya'll's thoughtless little heads...

B~