BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 May 10 - 11:31 AM

Actually owning a home in Mexico is dicey at best, but the overall problem is still the numbers of people.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 May 10 - 07:22 PM

Right off the top of my head I could tell you of three different friends of mine who have homes in Mexico- in different parts of Mexico.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 May 10 - 07:29 PM

I know. Technically it's possible to own a home in Mexico, but if somebody shows up with a Kalashnikov to tak it away, I wouldn't run to the title company.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 May 10 - 09:39 PM

Well, I can certainly agree with those who are concerned about the text book disaster in Texas.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 May 10 - 09:42 PM

"By that logic Republicans shouldn't make laws about schoolbooks."

mousethief, if I had a hat I'd doff it to your wit. Good one.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 May 10 - 09:44 PM

Does anybody hear an echo here?

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 May 10 - 10:01 PM

I was looking for the "bearded bruce" comment about teaching Black History, but I can't find it now.

          I think anyone who even casually thought about it would agree that a black teacher teaching Black History would find it more rewarding and maybe a little more challenging if he/she had students from other-than-black backgrounds it the classroom. I would think the students would find a course of this nature very rewarding, especially if they had a different background. The teacher would be producing a much larger footprint than he/she would if he/she were teaching only to students of the same ethnic background--my opinion.

          Further, I would think that this is the kind of education that school boards and superintendents would want to promote. A similar cultural enrichment could be found in the teaching of Chicano History and Native American history.

          I'm hopeful that this is the kind of program that "Ethnic Studies" could develop into.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Bobert
Date: 14 May 10 - 10:03 PM

Ya know what???

These discussions weren't occuring in the 90's when Hispanics were a major factor in fueling an economy that was hittin' and stickin'...

How do you spell hypocrisy???

I mean, let's get real here... This ain't the America that our grand parents knew where folks would come in and produce and be welcomed... Hispanics have out-produced almost every wave of immigrants and yet here we are playin' like they ain't squat...

I mean, we're arguing over how high a fence to build??? How many laws that target Hispanics we can pass??? How we can harass seasonal workers who have come here going back generations to harvest our food every year???

I mean, this ain't the America that welcomed the Germans, the Dutch, the Irish... This is a very hypocritical and hatefull America...

It makes me sick to be an American... It is un-American... I mean, even Redneck Nation had no complaints until times got tough... You didn't hear a peep outta them in the 90's or early 00s... Not a peep... Now, other than how much they hate Obama, it's about all that is on their mind???

Give my poor ol' hillbilly butt a break here... This is Jim Crow comin' back as, ahhhhh, Polk's warrior... Problem is that this ain't the 1840's... Problem is that a good bit of our country has been build by Hispanics...

Makes me sick... Shame on Arizona... Shame on this country!!!

b~

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 May 10 - 10:03 PM

Yikes--I'm on the wrong thread!

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Steve in Idaho
Date: 14 May 10 - 11:10 PM

Well this is probably redundant but isn't this basically about broken laws and the impact it is having on a state's economy? That's what laws do - provide social structure. So if you are here illegally then you have a price to pay for that.

I would quaintly suggest that our congress actually deal with the problem so the states wouldn't have to. Enact meaningful legislation to address the guest workers in this country. This isn't rocket science. But then again most politicians are not smarter than a 5th grader. And that we continue to re-elect them time after time says just how stupid we really are. My son gave me a bumper sticker, "Idahoans are to stupid to vote. See your incumbent for details." Dang if he wasn't right!

If I were in charge - those on unemployment and welfare would take those jobs of field work, child care, and cleaning toilets before they got a dime of the employed folks tax money. And that's my opinion on it.

My last attempt to fan the flames of discussion productively: Arizona Law Enforcement has its own problems. Like giving tickets to folks for going 45 in a 45. Go figure. And most of the Arizona LE I saw while there are Hispanic - are they going to profile each other??

Be well and God bless ya all - :-)

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Bobert
Date: 15 May 10 - 08:04 AM

Congress is too broken to deal with anything... People complain that the health care reform (which it wasn't) bill was a bad bill... Well, yeah... What would you expect from a body that has one of it's two chambers almost completely packed with corporation puppets...

And voting in a Republican majority in the Senate won't fix that but probably gum up the Senate even worse, if that can be done???

Ameerica has fucked itself by allowing the minority to rule...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Steve in Idaho
Date: 15 May 10 - 09:43 AM

I was thinking about this last night - we used to have a Guest Worker program. The people who hired the workers provided the medical insurance, housing, and transportation costs for them. It worked well and then for some unknown reason it was declared unfair.

You know Bob - I think the thing to do is to vote for anyone NOT in office and send all the bums who are there packing. Do that a couple of times and I think they'd get the message.

God bless ya all
Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 May 10 - 09:49 AM

Bobert: "How do you spell hypocrisy???"

If they had the brains to spell it, they would see that immigrants should be coming in LEGALLY!

Hey, Bobert, if someone broke into your home, would you offer him a free dinner, and pay for his/her doctor bills, and let him run your house???? ....then listen to him tell you how you owe him???..and what a shit you are????

I don't think so-o-o-o-o-o.

America is my home. You can damn well ring the doorbell!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Bobert
Date: 15 May 10 - 10:03 AM

Ya' know what, GfS??? If these arguments were being made in the 90's when there were 10 times more people coming in illegally I would step back and say "Hey, these folks have a point..."

But as long as the economy was hummmin' nar a peep from the right... Now that illegal immigartion is down to trickle compared to the 90's and the economy is flat what we hear outta the right is exactly what you have just parroted... And make no bones about it, it ***is*** parroting!!!

Just like deficits... Same crap... The right counldn't have cared less while George Bush was runnin' them up... Nar a peep until Obama came into office and they are righteously indignant about deficits...

That is why akk these protests are hypocritical...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 May 10 - 10:39 AM

You make a good point, Bobert. It was the US Chamber of Commerce who went after Oklahoma's illegal immigrant law, and they managed to get parts of it removed. All they want is cheap labor. They don't care how many native Americans are unemployed. In fact, higher unemployment drives wages even lower.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 May 10 - 10:46 AM

It was wrong then, it IS wrong now...and by the way, I was bitching about it then, too! We have a government, NOT doing their job, as put forth in the Constitution. Fuck 'em..run 'em off!...both parties!
Arizona is only doing what the federal government is just too corrupt to do!..and we keep electing these traitors...stupid us!

Toss the bums out, starting with any incumbent who has a voting record of not upholding their oath!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 May 10 - 11:32 AM

"All they want is cheap labor".   Correction, all the poster himself wants is cheap labor.   If he didn't want people paid less than minimum wage, he'd be for legalizing all the current illegal immigrants we now have.

Since, as we've pointed out more than once, the reason employers are able now to exploit them is that as illegals, they dare not report mistreatment of any kind--they'd be summarily deported.

If they were legal they could demand--and get---the wages legal citizens get--and would not be pushing down wages.

All workers would benefit.

So those who claim to support US workers and are not for legalizing illegal workers now here, are, in a word, hypocrites.

And anybody thinking that all the illegals should go "home" should start thinking, for a change. If you make that a requirement, not one will come out of the shadows.

It is also not "amnesty".   It would require them to learn English and they could have no criminal record except crimes associated with the act of illegal entry.

But some would rather whine about overpopulation-- a useful red herring-- than actually address the immigration issue.

And as I've also pointed out more than once, historically first generation immigrants have large families.   But as they get more education and prosperity, they realize that quality of life is better with smaller families. And act on that in succeeding generations. There is no reason to think it will be different with Mexicans coming to the US.

So extrapolation of large Hispanic families indefinitely into the future is another handy red flag to wave for propaganda fans and conspiracy theorists--but has no basis in fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 May 10 - 11:42 AM

Instead of boycotting Arizona, which some are doing, how about boycotting companies, and employers that hire illegally?..We do!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 May 10 - 04:34 PM

"If he didn't want people paid less than minimum wage, he'd be for legalizing all the current illegal immigrants we now have."

          Always looking at things through the wrong end of the telescope, Ron. What has to happen is to make life so miserable for the illegal aliens that they will leave and they won't be here to compete for any jobs at all. If they want to get to the back of the line and come into the country leagally, fine.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 May 10 - 11:29 PM

Ron: "If they were legal they could demand--and get---the wages legal citizens get--and would not be pushing down wages."

RIGHT!!! So they can come in legally! Wanting to work does not entitle you to be a citizen, ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD!

Why don't you sneak into Canada, without a passport, and tell them you want to play music for a living?...They'd tell you to fuck off!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Bobert
Date: 16 May 10 - 09:58 AM

GfS is right... If you want to stop illegal immigrants then just make FICA and income tax withholding manditory and impose stiff (jail time) penalties to anyone who hires them!!! End of *that* problem... Problem is that we are dependent on cheap labor to harvest and if you impose that law then the price of food is going to sky-rocket... Hey, I'm not saying that is bad or good... Just reality... Like they say, "Be carefull what you ask for because you might get it..."

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 May 10 - 10:37 AM

"impose stiff (jail time) penalties..."

Sorry, it's not that simple.   If you clamp down on employers to the extent indicated, some --perhaps many--will just move their operations elsewhere--Mexico is an obvious choice.   As I have mentioned before.

So US jobs, and taxes for the US government, will be lost--permanently.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 May 10 - 10:45 AM

Bobert: "Problem is that we are dependent on cheap labor to harvest and if you impose that law then the price of food is going to sky-rocket..."

Further more, Bobert, All that labor, that we shipped overseas, and or the food we get 'cheaper' from Mexico, and other places, does NOT mean cheaper prices for the consumer(us), but rather HIGHER PROFITS, for the greed driven corrupt corporations, who have become even bigger 'multinational' corporations, who honor no borders, than the 'new borders' of their OWN business dealings. THEY are the ones dictating to the President, and the 'representatives' as what to pass, buying them off with bribes, just to create their own 'comfort zone'!!!

This could, and should be changed!

For instance, Nike, makes shoes in Korea, for approximately 37 cents, a pair....yet sells them for upwards of $200.00, for their 'top of the line' shoes,and at least $50.00 a pair for the lesser!

They are just one of many! America has lost its manufacturing base, at the behest of these corporations, and we are rapidly declining, as we generate no wealth...but has become a service oriented 'economy', and plummeting into debt, trying to maintain some sort of standard of living, that we were accustomed to, when we WERE in fact, a leading manufacturing based, giant in the world!

Now we are stuck, with the results of unenforced laws, open borders, a broken government, and the bickering, turmoil and chaos that we are left with, which in fact, is just the left-over remnant, of what the rest over the world is picking through...like a left over garage sale!!!

The lost notion, that the Democrats, are for the 'little people', while the Republican are for 'big business', is a complete farce!..that's only news to those 'head in the sand' wannabe wishful thinkers. It is in fact, so screwed up, with CORRUPTION that this country is just barely a shadow, of what it once was.

Anyway, at that, I'll give it a rest. Glad to see that we are communicating thoughts, that expand our understanding! I'm sure this 'administration' will move to put a lid on that, as well!...Probably use 'free speech' to mean only THEM!!!!!!

Regards Bobert,
Hope the lawn is mowed(wink),

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Riginslinger
Date: 16 May 10 - 11:00 AM

In any event, Sarah Palin is in Arizona now, encouraging people to ge there and spend their money. That will be the end of the boycott.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 May 10 - 11:02 AM

Ron, We cross threaded, Your post is that of defeatism!

"So US jobs, and taxes for the US government, will be lost--permanently."

The corporations who have implemented the practices, cheap labor, higher profits for themselves, don't give a rat's ass! They are not so nationalistic as you may fantasize. Why would you be concerned about their tax breaks, when they got the government to allow them tax breaks, tariff deals, to ship their manufacturing elsewhere?????????..in the first place??..........Then they sell you this 'bleeding heart' rap to the point, of even eliminating our broken borders???

If our elected so-called representatives actually, would stick closer to the Constitution, which they took an oath to uphold(even though that was merely a ceremonial show), we would not be in this problem! We are, in real time, watching our nation decaying right in front of our eyes...and the traitors in power, are shifting the blame onto us, the public...for wanting to restrict them in doing so!!!

What you expressed, in your post, is a feeling of hopelessness, and acceptance of their corrupt bullshit...which you seem content to gobble up for dinner!....thanks to their 'conditioning', and our complacency!.....

I hope, at some point, you get indigestion!

Regards,

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Riginslinger
Date: 16 May 10 - 12:49 PM

You're right, Sanity. Today's corporations are not nationalistic at all. I don't think there are any Henry Fords out there.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 May 10 - 02:28 PM

My God!!..I think I'll fall over!! That's twice in one day, on two different threads, that someone said I was right!...(instead of being 'on the right').

It's funny, Rigs, as far back as during the elections, even during the primaries, I was saying the same thing, especially about the corruption.

I think it is high time, for us, who at least pretend to be concerned, to get behind dislodging folks from their complacent, whiny, 'you do it for me' attitudes..and roll up our own sleeves, instead of waiting for a government hand-out plan to tell us, to shut up, if we want their 'free' crap! We only hurt ourselves and our nation by doing so!....besides the FACT, that we cannot afford it. Time to start, (well, past time), whittling DOWN government, and build ourselves back up!!!!!!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Riginslinger
Date: 16 May 10 - 05:17 PM

So many of the corporations are internationally owned and financed, I don't think they care about the welfare of citizens in individual countries at all. I don't think they care about anybody; they aren't capable of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Bobert
Date: 16 May 10 - 08:30 PM

Hey, ya'll... We've been down this path before... Remember Ceazar Chavez and "Boycott Grapes"??? These were, ahhhhh, by today's standards, illegal immigarnts, too... Weren't no, "Geeeze, Ralp, why do ya' think they call them illegal?" crap going on then... Maybe some anit-union folks sayin', "Geeze, ralph, that's the problem with unions. They want too much"... What did Ceazar Chevez want??? Not much, come to think about it but nevermind that...

The point is that we have had this situation for a long time... My 1st wife worked for M-LAC (Migrant leagl Action Committee) in DC back in '72!!!

So lets not get bogged down her thinking that what is happening now is any different than itr has been hostoricvally... Might of fact, the crossing are way down... Way down... Like 10% of what they were 10 years ago...

The difference here is one of the tenents of fascism... That's nationalism... What is going on here is the right wing is throwin' gasoline on on a small fire trying to make it into a big fire to hide their true agednda which is to get as many people intio power so that they can suck on the front teet of corporate America...

That is hwta this is about... Pure and simple... Nothin' else other than rilin' up dumbed down people which these days ain't all that hard... Man, the right has to look over this dumbed down America and think, "A drunkards dream, if I ever did see one"....

So the debates will continue on and one and on and on... Meanwhile, corporate America will be popping champaign corks watching the ignorant people line up to be crusaders for folks who not only don't give a shit about them but secretly laugh at their total ignorance!!!

And the beat goes on...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 May 10 - 04:09 AM

The last line was the real eye-opener.
   
    This is very interesting and if Arizona can do it, why can't the rest of America ?

    MEXICO IS ANGRY !

    Three cheers for Arizona...

    The shoe is on the other foot and the Mexicans from the State of Sonora, Mexico do not like it. Can you believe the nerve of these people? It's almost funny.

    The State of Sonora is angry at the influx of Mexicans into Mexico . Nine state legislators from the Mexican State of Sonora traveled to Tucson to complain about Arizona's new employer crackdown on illegals from Mexico. It seems that many Mexican illegals are returning to their hometowns and the officials in the Sonora state government are ticked off. A delegation of nine state legislators from Sonora was in Tucson on
    Tuesday to state that Arizona's new Employer Sanctions Law will have a devastating effect on the Mexican state.


    At a news conference, the legislators said that Sonora, - Arizona's southern neighbor - made up of mostly small towns - cannot handle the demand for housing, jobs and schools that it will face as Mexican workers
    return to their hometowns from the USA without jobs or money.

    The Arizona law, which took effect Jan. 1, punishes Arizona employers who knowingly hire individuals without valid legal documents to work in the United States. Penalties include suspension of, or loss of, their business license.
   
    The Mexican legislators are angry because their own citizens are returning to their hometowns, placing a burden on THEIR state government. 'How can Arizona pass a law like this?' asked Mexican Rep Leticia Amparano-Gamez, who represents Nogales. 'There is not one person living in Sonora who does not have a friend or relative working in Arizona ,' she said, speaking in Spanish. 'Mexico is not prepared for this, for the tremendous problems it will face as more and more Mexicans working in Arizona and who were sending money to their families return to their home-towns in Sonora without jobs,' she said. 'We are one family, socially and economically,' she said of the people of Sonora and Arizona.


    Wrong! The United States is a sovereign nation, not a subsidiary of Mexico , and its taxpayers are not responsible for the welfare of Mexico's citizens.

    It's time for the Mexican government, and its citizens, to stop feeding parasitically off the United States and to start taking care of its/their own needs. Too bad that other states within the USA don't pass a law just like that
    passed by Arizona. Maybe that's the answer, since our own Congress will do nothing!

    New Immigration Laws: Read to the bottom or you will miss the message...

    1. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools.
   
      2. All ballots will be in this nation's language.
   
    3. All government business will be conducted in our language.
   
      4. Non-residents will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they are here.
   
      5. Non-citizens will NEVER be able to hold political office.
   
    6 Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no food stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs. Any burden will be deported.


      7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount at least equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.
   
    8. If foreigners come here and buy land... options will be restricted. Certain parcels including waterfront property are reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.
   
    9. Foreigners may have no protests; no demonstrations, no waving of a foreign flag, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or his policies. These will lead to deportation.
   
    10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be actively hunted &, when caught, sent to jail until your deportation can be arranged. All assets will be taken from you.

    Too strict?


    The above laws are current immigration laws of MEXICO !

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 May 10 - 09:07 AM

"...defeatism..."

You spelled that wrong.

It's called realism.   That's the way capitalism works. Sorry to have to tell you--but somebody needed to.

Welcome to the real world.

If you by some chance have a counterargument, I'd love to hear it.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Bobert
Date: 17 May 10 - 09:11 AM

This is all the result/backlash of folks in the US trying to change the rules in the middle of the game... As I have pointed out, there has been at the very least a tacit agreement/relationship between Mexico and the US which has served both nations well for decades...

But as in any tacit agreement/relationship if one side changes the rules then the other will in turn change their rules... Both countries are getting more and more "nationalistic" which is never a good sign... Extreme nationalism is a tenent of fascism... It also is a sign that a nation is pulling inwards and and trying to be more isolationist... Isolationism has historically been a bad thing... If you recall the early 1900's we went thru this and ended up in WW I... We pulled back after WW I and ended up in WW II... Given the US's history and given it's current place in the world another round of nat5ionalism.isolationism ain't gonna get US outta our mess... That can only be done by breaking the stranglehold that corporations have on our people and our government... BTW, Mexico has nothing to do with that mess... That's all on US...

But let the corporate smokescreen continue... Like I said, the corportist are laughing up their sleeves at just how their little diversionary plans work with this new 'n unimproved population of dumbed down people who vote from ignorance and possess little in the way of either facts or the ability to think critically for themselves...

And the beat goes on... And on... And on...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 May 10 - 09:11 AM

"They're not as nationalistic...."    That's exactly what I said--that's why they will move their operations, given the pressure you propose (jail time).

That's exactly why your plan will not work.

You should really try logic (and realism) at some point, rather than rhetoric.    It really does help.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Riginslinger
Date: 17 May 10 - 09:55 AM

"Remember Ceazar Chavez and "Boycott Grapes"???"

             I do remember that, and the way I remember it, Chavez came to understand that an influx of illegal immigrants undercut his ability to collectively bargain. He was against illegal immigration.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Bobert
Date: 17 May 10 - 05:23 PM

The point is that we had illegal immigrants then as we have now...

We've had decades of illegal immigrants...

My question is simple.. Why the stink now??? The border crossings are way down compared to the 90's and the ear4ly 00s...

The reason is that this is yet another empotional issue that the c orporation use as a smokescreen to keep the rednecks all pissed off... Seems that flag burnin' ammendments just don't cut it these days with Redneck Nation... And they ain't all that bothered about abortion... So the corportist have turned this into red meat and are throwing everything they have aT Redneck Nation to keep them folks all pissed off...

That, BTW, is appealing to nationalism...

No, what is needed is a major reset bewtween the US and Mexico and screw Redneck Nation... They'll be pissed off either way...

We don't need to "build the danged fence"...

We need to reform our immigration policies so that we don't have people living here and contributing who are "illegal"...

But that ain't gonna happen as long as Boss Hog can use the issue to keep Redneck Nation lathered up...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Riginslinger
Date: 17 May 10 - 06:58 PM

"Why the stink now???"

          Because, after the diasterous 1986 amnesty the illegals started coming in ever greater numbers. Then the country experineced the last big Reagan recession, and citizens started getting laid off in droves--probably for the first time since the early 80's. Suddenly, people woke up and discovered what had happened to them.

          Coupled with that, is a growing awareness that more people place a greater demand on resources, and those folks who were feeling a little more crowded each year looked back and realized they didn't like things they way they'd become.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 May 10 - 08:42 PM

Sorry Rig, you can't enlist the ghost of Cesar Chavez for your attempt to stop history.

Chavez, if you would read more than one line, was primarily about increasing membership in his union.   Therefore, regarding the 11 million illegal immigrants already here, he'd be much more likely, rather than trying to send them "home", to try to have them made citizens--and recruit them for the UFW.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 May 10 - 08:45 PM

Obviously not all 11 million would be UFW material.

But you're living in a fantasyland anyway--you've rarely been concerned with facts--except, it appears, facts about Jefferson.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 May 10 - 09:09 PM

COME ONE..COME ALL!! RON DAVIES SAYS ITS OKAY TO COME INTO HIS HOUSE ANYTIME YOU WANT!! IF YOU FIND THE DOOR LOCKED, COME IN THROUGH THE WINDOWS. HE IS PROVIDING FREE FOOD, LODGING AND YOUR MEDICAL BILLS WILL BE PAID, FOR FREE!! ALSO, YOU CAN USE HIS CREDIT CARDS, AFTER HE RUNS OUT OF CASH!!!! TAKE ANYTHING YOU WANT, AND BRING YOUR FRIENDS. TELL YOUR FRIENDS TO INVITE ANY AND EVERYBODY THEY MEET. THIS IS A GREAT DEAL!! AFTER ALL, WE SHARE THE SAME FORUM(CONTINENT), AND THE SAME INTERNET(WORLD)..SO EVERYONE IS INVITED. HE DOES NOT OBJECT....AND IF HE CHANGES HIS MIND, IGNORE HIM. HE HAS GIVEN UP ALL RIGHTS TO SAY WHAT GOES ON IN HIS HOUSE!!!!

BESIDES, LIBERALS ARE GREAT AT GIVING AWAY OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY!!!! nOW ITS HIS TURN, AND HE IS HAPPY TO DO SO!!!!!

phil ochs tune, just for you!

ENJOY YOUR THEME SONG!!!!!!!!!

SMILING!

GFS

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 May 10 - 09:15 PM

But when you come to my house, please don't shout so much.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 May 10 - 09:20 PM

You can't tell me that!!..You are discriminating!..After all your ol' lady shouts at you all the time!..Besides, who are you to be saying what we can or cannot do?? Shit what do you think your house is....YOURS????!!!???

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Donuel
Date: 17 May 10 - 09:47 PM

I for one do not want the USA to become MExico.

To argue that new Arizona laws are similar to Mexican law and therefore good... is nonsense on its face.

Rig may want to take the USA back... wards but I contend we move forward.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Bobert
Date: 17 May 10 - 10:25 PM

Ya' know what??? Historically there have been issues/problems with new immigrants... Nuthin' new here except that until Boss Hog wanted to lather up Redneck nation the Hispanics fit in purdy good... Plus, they worked like hell... Whats the reral deal here??? Ain't Hispanics... It's corporatist politics...

I find it interesting that the corportists wnat like, ahhhh, no federal government when it comes to producing whatever they produce but when it comes to tryin' to get their boys back in power they can't get enough government???

like wat is all that about???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 May 10 - 11:39 PM

Donuel: "I for one do not want the USA to become MExico.
To argue that new Arizona laws are similar to Mexican law and therefore good... is nonsense on its face."

Donuel, I couldn't agree with you more! You are right! Therefore, when they come over here, to our country, they, being guests, if you will, should abide by OUR laws...the same when we go abroad, we should acquiesce, and abide by the laws of the land we are visiting!

What I was pointing out, was the Mexican government's laws, are far more stricter than our own, but the people don't give a damn. The hypocrisy that has become the 'liberal' banner is beyond any rational thinking. If it wasn't so tragic, it would be something you'd see on Monty Python!
....but reason has never been a benchmark of 'liberal' thinking(?), as you can see, just within this thread!

Like I've posted before, for the sake of 'equality' we should ALL be able to PICK one law, that we citizens can ignore, with impunity, if we simply allow them to do the same!

Bobert: "I find it interesting that the corportists wnat like, ahhhh, no federal government when it comes to producing whatever they produce but when it comes to tryin' to get their boys back in power they can't get enough government???

like wat is all that about???"

(hard to decipher, but) Can you spell C-O-R-R-U-P-T-I-O-N???

It is the short sighted, "Make a quick buck, and do not look at the consequences"...in fact, ignore them, then pass new laws, to prohibit others from doing the same!......Then move from the need and greed for money, to the need for more POWER!

Sincerely,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Bobert
Date: 18 May 10 - 07:43 AM

Yeah, I can spell C-O-R-R-U-P-T-I-O-N... I can spell B-O-S-S H-O-G, too... And I can spell M-O-N-E-Y, as well...

It is a sad commentary on those who parrot the corportist fight song note for note... It is "Exhibit A" that we have indeed become Huxley's "Brave New World", except in this case the Epsilons get to vote and voice their opinions quite loudly... I was watching Sarah Plain last night talking about stuff that she was totally unqualified to so much as even think (think???) about and thinking to myself that Ms. Sarah is indeed the Queen of the Epsilons...

This, by no means, is just name-calling... It is an observation... Looks as if the "elitists", you know, the folks who bother to become educated and develope their minds, are in for more and more of Daddy Bush's game plan of bashing the educated and the thinkers in favor of the Zombies...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 May 10 - 10:15 AM

Bobert, Boss Hog and the corporatists are the greatest supporters of illegal immigration.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: pdq
Date: 18 May 10 - 10:59 AM

Mexico is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with annual GPA of over 1 trillion dollars.

They are approximately tied with India in wealth, each ranked about 12th on the list.

Where does the money go? India has 1.2 billion people, ten times the listed population of Mexico, yet both have about the same GDP.

Yes, Mexico is a huge, wealthy, productive country with natural resources that most countries can only dream of.

Fix Mexico, don't ruin the United States. The reasons for all social problems is south of our border.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 May 10 - 11:26 AM

So Bobert, are you opening up YOUR home, to apply the same 'hospitality' as you want the rest of the country to adopt??...or is it just for those not near your backyard?????

"Love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal!!" --Phil Ochs

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 May 10 - 12:07 PM

pdq: "Mexico is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with annual GPA of over 1 trillion dollars.
They are approximately tied with India in wealth, each ranked about 12th on the list.
Where does the money go? India has 1.2 billion people, ten times the listed population of Mexico, yet both have about the same GDP.
Yes, Mexico is a huge, wealthy, productive country with natural resources that most countries can only dream of."

See folks, pdq knows how to spell C-O-R-R-U-P-T-I-O-N!

Its amazing, with all that wealth that our 'poor' don't sneak into Mexico, and get on THEIR welfare!!....other than the FACT that if they did, they'd either be thrown in prison, and held for ransom...or be shot!

Perhaps with all that money, they should use it to develop their infrastructure, and create private sector jobs.....only bummer to that is, the left socialist nutcases would have their stupid, liberty squelching agenda derailed...well at least for a while..till they bullshitted their own mentally incapable too!

SUCKERS!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Bobert
Date: 18 May 10 - 12:47 PM

Well, yeah, GfS, to some degree we have opened our home up to our neighbors... We are field boarding three horses out of the kindness of our hearts... We are allowing another neighbor to use part of one of our barns to store his stuff while he is trying to find a new home out of the kindness of our hearts... We have opened up our gardens to be toured by at least a half a dozen garden clubs out of the kindness of our hearts... I waive my fees for performing if the event is for charity... I mean, this is what neigbors do... We don't ask to see anyone's birth certificates... This is just they way we were brought up...

On another note, I reckon if you take a look at the citizens of New Mexico, Arizona, Texas and California it could be argued by the Mexicans that those folks are illegals... Get my drift here???

I mean, as a nation we have not always acted in a neigborly, pro-human manner and seems we're back into that pattern once again...

B~