BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 08:35 PM

More than one can play the numbers game. I have no idea where pdq's 'fun facts' are supposed to lead. Or where he found them.

New Mexico had the highest proportion of Hispanics--42 percent.

Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin, percent, 2008 NM:44.9%US:15.4%
New Mexico Foreign born persons, percent, 2000   New Mexico: 8.2% USA: 11.1%


http://www.census.gov/mso/www/rsf/hisorig/sld009.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: pdq
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 08:53 PM

Perhaps someone needs to read more carefully.

New Mexico is indeed the leading "hispanic" state with 45% of the total population.

However, an amazing 84% are "native-born", which is consistant with its history of Spanish colonization and Roman Catholic Church activites dating back centuries.

This shows that New Mexico is not being as heavily impacted as California, Arizona, Nevada or Texas by the last 30 years of mass migration from Mexico.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: artbrooks
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 09:02 PM

Doug, I live in New Mexico. I used to live in Arizona.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 09:07 PM

I remember years ago, in New Mexico when I was a kid, there was a scramble to prove where one was born (reason forgotten- voter registry- passport?).
Small New Mexico communities had no system and Catholic Church records were often lost (the majority in northern New Mexico were Hispanic or part Hispanic). My mother (parents from Spain but no birth records found) and my grandmother on the other side, (Irish pioneer family, records of birth lost) had to get affidavits from a ranking politician or professional like a doctor stating that they were born in the state.


New Mexico Facts
Hispanic or Latino origin- 45% (2008)
Number speaking Spanish at home- 36% (2000)
Number of New Mexicans admitting foreign birth- 8% (2000)
US Census Bureau estimates, 2009.

Arizona
Hispanic or Latino- 30% (2008)
Language other than English spoken at home- 26% (2000)
Number of Arizonans admitting foreign birth- 13% (2000)

I would not try to break out number of Hispanic foreign born.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 09:10 PM

Didn't the brownshirts do this kinds stuff???

Papers, please...

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 09:19 PM

I know, Bob. We have all read the chilling history of this kind of thing.

Frankly, I don't believe that it will stand.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 09:21 PM

Well, I hope not, Eb... It opens the door to all kinds of wild west bigotry...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 09:44 PM

"(I wonder when Rig's family came to Oregon?)"

          1924 from Montana, scammed by railroads on wheat farm deals.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 09:49 PM

"I'm wondering if they have to wait till someone is arrested under this law before anyone will "have standing" to challenge the law's constitutionality."

One might think 'how about the governor?" but rest assured any police who are so stupid as to not recognise him from a photo are really too stupid to be trusted by "Der Fuhrer"..

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 09:50 PM

"...THIS issue is about how to **IDENTIFY** in a fair manner those who have come here illegally..."

          Actually, it's not. It's about how citizens in Arizona can protect themselves from an invasion or illegal persons, crime, and drug smuggling from the south.

          Identifying illegals involves the same routine as finding people with outstanding warrants. A guy runs a stop sign, the cop pulls him over and asks for his identification--it's that simple. The only difference now is, if the guy doesn't have any identification, the cop is required to look into his immigration status.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 09:53 PM

"[[For some reason laws passed to halt illegal emigration never seem to target the wealthy who hire them, only their employees. Who cares right? They can always hire another.]]"

          Actually, the Obama Administration started out doing that, and the result was, they put so many illegal immigrants out of work--many more than Bush did raiding chicken factories--that they quit doing it. If they hadn't quit, we might not be here.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 09:57 PM

I think a lot of how folks look at this issue has a lot to do with whether one sees "people as people," or "people as members of groups."

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 10:02 PM

Well, yeah, Rigs... That's purdy much it... And seems in Arizona they no longer have any interests in looking at people as people but as groups...

Gov. Bill Richardson, a Hispanic, said that going next door might be troublesome for him??? That's a sad commentary...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 10:18 PM

The Mexican-American-Legal-and-Educational-Defense-Fund looks at people as members of groups. Those of us who are simply worried about over population look at people as people, Richardson included.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: artbrooks
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 10:28 PM

Overpopulation isn't a problem. Just sterilize women after their second child. Start in Utah...oh, that wouldn't work. Overpopulation only counts if they are brown.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 10:36 PM

Of course Utah counts, Art. The trick is to convince folks that it's in their own best interest, the interest of their children and grand-children, and in the interest of the greater community to check out the facts.

             When religious dogma stands in the way, reality goes out the window--Catholic, Mormon, Islamic, or whatever...

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Genie
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 07:54 AM

I fear that this law may be a backdoor route to a national ID card - with way too much sensitive info on it - which ALL OF US will have to carry with us at all times.

One way to keep a law like this and avoid the "ethnic profiing" charge is to make everyone carry proof of citizenship or legal immigrant status at all times and to stop (i.e., inconvenience and maybe cause real hardship to) people at random just to check.   Oy!

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 09:17 AM

Genie, I've carried a national (military) ID card since I was 12 - hasn't burned a hole in my butt yet. The most recent iteration has all of the personal information (SSN, date and place of birth, etc.) encoded and barcoded as well as in a readable form.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 09:18 AM

Actually, it's the destrcutive legislation that Sens. Schumer and Graham are pushing that champions a national ID card. There's no mention of it in this law.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 03:23 PM

Canada has a national ID card. Labeled "Certificate of Canadian Citizenship," with signed photo, brief description and unique number.

SSN (SIN) card is pretty close to a national ID card. And you would be surprised how much information is back of your bank credit card.

Once the Federals get the Immigration laws straightened out (not the bigot- devised Arizona one), I see nothing wrong with ID cards.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: DougR
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 03:53 PM

Arizona's new law does nothing more than reinforce federal law. Federal law: it's a crime for a non-citizen to live in Arizona. Arizona law: it's a crime for a non-citizen to liven in Arizona.

Genie: Arizona has had a law for quite some time penalizing employers who knowingly hire non-citizens. However, relatively few have been penalized.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 04:46 PM

After some pfaffing finding it I have had a look at the text of the act at http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/04/16/AzSB1070.pdf.

It is a "sus" law. Sus laws brought parts of South London close to riot before reform. People should learn from history (but if they did I suppose they would not be Republicans).

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 05:08 PM

Republicans enacted the law, and bviously they did learn. Didn't you say the riots brought reform?

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 05:13 PM

Bridge comment.
For North Americans, a 'sus' law is one that permits a police officer to act on suspicion alone. It was dropped in 1981.
It will not get past the first court case.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 05:31 PM

Thankfully the Arizona law does not allow a police officer to act on suspicion alone.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 06:17 PM

Richard, could you try that link to the AZ law again? Doesn't work.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 06:25 PM

http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/04/16/AzSB1070.pdf


Second substantive paragraph in blue. "Where reasonable suspicion exists".

In practice this will create a power to arrest for being brown and/or not speaking American English. God help celebrant basketball players (if there is a god).

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 06:41 PM

Uh huh. The law says that suspicion is all that's needed:
"FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. ... A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, WITHOUT A WARRANT, MAY ARREST A PERSON IF THE OFFICER HAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THE PERSON HAS COMMITTED ANY PUBLIC OFFENSE THAT MAKES THE PERSON REMOVABLE FROM THE UNITED STATES. ... IN ADDITION TO ANY VIOLATION OF FEDERAL LAW, A PERSON IS GUILTY OF TRESPASSING IF THE PERSON IS BOTH: 1. PRESENT ON ANY PUBLIC OR PRIVATE LAND IN THIS STATE. 2. IN VIOLATION OF 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1304(e) OR 1306(a). {is not carrying his or her alien registration card or has willfully failed to register.}

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 07:00 PM

"Federal law: it's a crime for a non-citizen to live in Arizona. Arizona law: it's a crime for a non-citizen to liven in Arizona" Doug R

Surely not, Doug! A non-citizen? What about provisional residents? What about the five-year wait before a person legally in the country can take the oath of naturalization?

Surely not.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 07:07 PM

Yes, he/she would have to enter the country illegaly, then that person could not reside in Arizona, or anywhere else in the country. Millions of them do, and those are the ones who need getting rid of.

Subject: Jan Brewer takes step towards police state in AZ
From: Genie
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 07:38 PM

Doug,   You're right about laws penalizing employers for hiring illegals seldom being enforced.   And that's a huge source of the problem with illegal immigrants.

But Arizona's new law does a lot more than make it a crime for an illegal immigrant to live in Arizona. (I sure HOPE it doesn't make it a crime for LEGAL immigrants to live there!)
It seems to make it mandatory for everyone to have something like a passport or birth certificate or green card on their person AT ALL TIMES, even at times when one might normally neither need nor want to have a wallet, etc. with them.

The issue is not HAVING a state or national ID card, it's not being allowed to go anywhere without it.

We are not talking about having a driver license when you're driving or trying to buy something with a check or credit card.

There are times and places where there's no need to carry a purse or wallet and where having one with you involves great risk of loss or theft. E.g., when you go to the beach or a swimming pool or perhaps are working at a community garden or even going to a free outdoor public concert.


Q, if Canada makes everyone carry that Certificate of Canadian Citizenship at all times that's pretty oppressive. When I lived and worked in Canada, as a "landed immigrant," I did not have to carry such a card with me. Just my Ontario driver license - and I needed that only when driving or occasionally when asked for proof of age in a bar.   My Canadian "Social Insurance" (their equivalent to our Social Security) card did not have a photo or description either.

I don't want my credit cards stolen or lost either, but I'm not required to carry them with me anyway. It's also a lot easier to cancel a credit card and get a replacement issued than it is to replace a driver license or passport. And if someone gets hold of your birth certificate, how do you "cancel" and "replace" that?

Rig, I didn't say the Arizona law champions a national ID.   I'm saying it's an early step on a very short journey to getting to that point.


Art, if you're comfortable having all the info that's needed to steal your identity carried in your pocket at all times, that's fine, but I would not be. ESPECIALLY at times when I'd have to leave it unattended for a while, e.g., while swimming at the beach.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Genie
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 07:48 PM

It sure seems to me that the criteria for "suspicion" and "probable cause" are way too vaguely defined, as this law is written, to prevent a policeman merely arresting someone because s/he didn't like the way that person looked or sounded or whatever.   

Thing is, if someone "looks Mexican" and speaks Spanish but little English and is working in a low-paying job such as picking lettuce, that probably does constitute "reasonable suspicion" of illegal status simply because so many sub-minimum-wage laborers (especially those who are brown skinned and speak Spanish) ARE illegal.      But in cases like that, law enforcement should be going after the EMPLOYER FIRST, to inquire whether the workers had proof of legal residency.      Anyway, it is almost certainly going to involve a lot of ethnic profiling to enforce this law, and that is a huge problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: DougR
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 07:55 PM

Ebbie: I'll try again. Anyone who enters Arizona illegally cannot live here permanently.

No, Genie, it does not apply to legal residents.

There likely will be some instances when legal residents will be inconvenienced. I don't, however, it will be a common occurance. The police have more to do than scan the landscape looking for someone who MAY be here illegally.

If the federal government will secure the border, as it is supposed to, illegals will not be such a problem for our state. Estimates are that 450,000 illegals make their home in Arizona. That puts a terrible burden our our hospitals who are required to provide treatment, and in most instances, receive no pay for the services.

DougR

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 08:42 PM

Sure it applies to legal residents. The police can, based upon "reasonable suspicion", require that any individual who they suspect of being an illegal resident prove his or her citizenship or residency status. Failure to do so constitutes probable cause for arrest. So if Grandma Gomez (or Chang or Jorgenson), who has been a citizen for 40 years but is getting a little hazy and has forgotten most of the English she ever learned, doesn't have her Naturalization certificate in her pocket she is off to Sheriff Arpaio's gulag.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Genie
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 09:10 PM

Art is right, Doug.

It's small consolation if you're eventually cleared, if you've been detained and possibly jailed and you have to pay for an attorney, etc., and you've maybe lost business or a job or important non-business events while you were "processed" after being taken into custody because you weren't carrying your green card or passport or birth certificate.

I can see it now: A mariachi band en route to a Cinco De Mayo gig is stopped by the Arizona cops and asked for their passports or birth certificates. Since they don't normally carry these around -- being US citizens and all -- they are detained, miss the gig(s) and lose not just a few hours' or a day's income but possibly a longer-term client for being a no-show.   

There will no doubt be many other similar situations if this law is allowed to take effect.

Being stopped by the police can be a major disruption to your schedule, even if you are not charged with anything.

Anyway, if I lose or forget my driver license and am stopped by the police, I may be given a citation (after the cop calls in to check who the car is registered to, etc.) but I will not be arrested on a criminal charge or taken to jail. I'll probably get off with a slap on the wrist if I can produce my driver license within 24 hours.      It is not the same kind of offense as driving when you aren't licensed to drive.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 09:30 PM

Canadians do not have to carry their Certificate of Citizenship. Most consider it an honour, not at all 'oppressive'.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 10:25 PM

"Doug,   You're right about laws penalizing employers for hiring illegals seldom being enforced."

               Actually, the Obama Administration started doing that shortly after they took office--and legal Americans rushed in to apply for the jobs that were created. That's why they quit.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Genie
Date: 25 Apr 10 - 11:49 PM

@Rig
Huh??

Who quit? What did they quit?
The Obama administration quit cracking down on employers hiring illegals because legal US residents started filling the jobs??   Why? That makes no sense.

@Q
Maybe most Canadians consider it an honour, not at all 'oppressive', to carry their Certificate of Citizenship - sometimes.

But NO ONE here has addressed the issue of people having to carry valuable, hard-to-replace, sensitive-info-containing "papers" with them when they are in places or doing activities that would make carrying such papers cumbersome, dangerous, or both.

Again, WHY SHOULD SOMEONE HAVE TO HAVE THEIR "PAPERS" WITH THEM WHEN THEY GO FOR A WALK OR A SWIM OR A RIDE ON THE BUS?

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 01:11 AM

Obama quit cracking down on illegal employers because going after them proved to be much more effective than the administration had anticipated. The Hispanic caucus got to them. They were alienating more Hispanic voters than Bush was doing by raiding chicken plants.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 01:27 AM

Let's get some documentation on that, Rig.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Genie
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 02:05 AM

Rig, I find your explanation hard to believe. First off, a lot of Hispanics -- especially those who worked hard and bided their time to go through the legal channels to citizenship -- resent illegals "jumping line," so to speak. Second, a lot of Hispanics are from other countries such as Cuba, Puerto Rico, etc., not Mexicao. It is not the case that Hispanics are a bloc favoring unrestricted immigration or amnesty for illegals.

Second, cracking down on employers is the best way to curb illegal immigration from Mexico without making criminals of the Mexican immigrants and harrassing them.

Third, it is the employers themselves, including big business, who really want to keep the supply of poor immigrants coming into the country, who are willing to work for $3/hr. In fact, the Republicans often speak of wanting to implement a "guest worker" program whereby a lot of immigrants would be allowed in legally, to work for wages that are far below our national minimum wage. If anyone put pressure on Obama to stop cracking down on the employers, it was probably the businesses themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 08:35 AM

Genie - I agree with everything you say here. There are a lot of legal Hispanics who are as much against illegal immigration as everyone else is.

          Your second point agrees with what I said--the best way to curb illegal immigration is to crack down on employers. If they would throw the board of directors of Tyson Foods in jail today, illegal immigration would probably end tomorrow.

          Your last point is partly right. Employers would have put pressure on the administration if they'd had any clout with it. But it becomes necessary to draw the line between Hispanics as a group, and "Hispanic politicians." Hispanic politicians want as many Hispanics in the country as possible because it grows their electorate.
          You only have to Google "The Nation Of Aztlan," to discover one segment of this argument. Other's are not quite so radical, but that's an element that has not gone away, and probably won't.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Genie
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 12:10 PM

Rig, Hispanic politicians may want to increase the number of Hispanic US citizens, but non-citizen immigrants can't vote, whether they are legal or not.*

Hispanic politicians also have to appeal to many non-Hispanics, as well as to the anti-illegal immigration Hispanics, if they want to get elected.

I think the mega-businesses like Tyson and trans-national corporations like ADM have humongous clout in both DC and various state houses by way of their lobbyists and their political advertising. Oh, and thanks to the Roberts court, those corporations will have almost exponentially greater influence on elections to come -- and the politicians, Hispanic and non-Hispanic, know it.



*Please don't tell me you think illegal voter registration of immigrants is a major problem. It's not that easy to get registered and vote if you're not a citizen, plus there are more legitimate minority voters are disenfranchised via sneaky and sometimes illegal means (e.g., long lines and/or broken voting machines at their polling places) than there are people illegally registered.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Genie
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 12:16 PM

BTW, one main way this new law is almost certain to be implemented this fall is at polling places.

People will be hired - some perhaps wearing official-looking uniforms - to harrass "Hispanic-looking" voters at the polls, threatening them that IF they actually vote and then cannot produce a passport or other proof of citizenship (a voter registration card won't be accepted), they will be arrested.   

That will be enough to deter thousands of US citizens of Hispanic descent from voting.

Mission accomplished.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 12:32 PM

...wasn't it *Peter* Brewer and *Jan* Stewer?

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 01:02 PM

"Hispanic politicians may want to increase the number of Hispanic US citizens, but non-citizen immigrants can't vote, whether they are legal or not.*"

               You're right again, Genie. Here's how it works, and would work again if the American public were to be foolish enough to go along with the laughable proposal the administration is calling "comprehensive immigration reform." (1) The government turns it's back and allows millions of illegal immigrants to enter the country, (2)then they make the case that the illegals have been here so long that they ought to make them all legal--they did this in 1986, remember.
               (3)Once those people become legalized, they have this insidious rule called "family reunification." Through family reunification, they bring in all kinds of shirt-tail relatives--aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters, grandparents, and etc. Once all of those people grow in numbers, they appeal to the public for another amensty. They had 3.5 million illegals in 1986, now they've got anywhere from 11 to 20 million illegal aliens.
                The other disaster that is still in place is the concept of "birthright citizenship." This is something that is left over from the Civil War and needs to be changed. It allows that anyone born in the US is automatically a citizen. These people grow up and vote too. The ones allowed to become citizens in 1986 would have been voting for 6 years now.

                Lastly, and I don't know how often this happens--we know it got Lorreta Sanchez elected--illegal aliens do vote. It's been proven.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Genie
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 01:53 PM

Rig: "(1) The government turns it's back and allows millions of illegal immigrants to enter the country, (2)then they make the case that the illegals have been here so long that they ought to make them all legal--they did this in 1986, remember."
That "they" would be the Reagan administration.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Genie
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 02:05 PM

Rig, the flaw in your theory is your ignoring the immediacy of most politicians' wishes and needs. Very few politicians think years or decades down the road; they want to get elected/re-elected now and/or in the next 2 to 6 years.

The path to legal citizenship that Reagan set in motion via his amnesty takes years, for those who are eligible.    You are right, of course, that such amnesty programs will inevitably bring in as many or more illegals to take the place of those who become legal (and will no longer work for peanuts).   But giving amnesty to the illegal immigrants who are now in the US will not make many of those people eligible to vote for 5 to 10 years; meanwhile, it may produce a backlash among the politicians who support that policy.   

I'm not sure the family reunification "rule" really allows many people outside the immediate family to become legal immigrants and citizens. I know of quite a few US citizens whose parents, adult children, etc., are still not citizens even if they are legal residents of the US.
            
The issue of f"birthright citizenship" is, I think, a topic for another thread.

As for your allegations about illegal aliens voting in numbers large enough to elect Loretta Sanchez, what is your proof?

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 02:32 PM

"That "they" would be the Reagan administration."

    Yes, absolutely. Reagan hated anything evironmentally sound.



    "The issue of f"birthright citizenship" is, I think, a topic for another thread.

      I don't. I think it's right at the core of the problem. In fact, I don't see how comprehensive immigation reform could be passed without addressing it.


      "As for your allegations about illegal aliens voting in numbers large enough to elect Loretta Sanchez, what is your proof?"

       The House did a study after the election, but decided it was too late to try to overturn the results.

Subject: RE: BS: Jan Brewer takes step to save America
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 02:48 PM

Loretta Sanchez eked out an election win in 1996 by less than 1,000 votes. After a recount that determined her margin of victory was 984 votes, Sanchez was seated in the House, but Dornan (her opponent) protested, alleging illegal votes cast. In 1998, the House Oversight Committee dismissed Dornan's challenge after concluding that 750 to 800 votes cast were invalid, still short of Sanchez's 984-win, based on crosschecks with immigration records. House Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) said if the number of illegal votes matched Sanchez's winning margin, action would have been taken. A resolution was passed in the House later that month dismissing the challenge.H. Res. 355, Feb. 12, 1998(10)H. Res. 355, Feb. 12, 1998.   More here.

The following relatives may be sponsored by US citizens:   
    * Spouse
    * Children (unmarried and under 21)
    * Sons and daughters (married and/or 21 or over)
    * Parents, if you are 21 or over
    * Siblings, if you are 21 or over
    * Fiance
Greencard holders may sponsor spouse and unmarried children.

Has anyone yet introduced a bill in Congress to change the 14th Amendment to the Constitution to eliminate "birthright" citizenship or has the accepted definition been challenged in US courts? Very unlikely ever to happen.