Searching for Songbooks

Subject: Searching for Songbooks
From: FrankO
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 02:18 PM

This is my first posting here, so I hope I'm not going over something that's been asked before.

I am searching for a couple of lyric books. I've checked around, and these seem to be out of print. I was wondering if anyone had any information on these, including possible sources of copies. They are:

1. "Irish Comic Songs" by Ward. I do not have the editor's first name. This book was published in Chicago in 1947.

2. Any or all five volumes of "The English and Scottish Popular Ballads" by Prof. Francis James Child. These were originally compiled by Child in the later 1800's at Harvard University.

I've seen both of these titles referenced in liner notes, and would love to find copies of them.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Frank [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: JedMarum
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 02:46 PM

Try amazon.com - they list book as "This title is out of print. Although it is no longer available from the publisher, we'll query our network of used bookstores for you and send an update within one to two weeks." That means they are going to contact ME in the next two weks with the info. I you login, and search for 'The English and Scottish Popular Ballads' they will conduct a search for you. They did not have "Irish Comic Sings" in their database.

Try also seraching at barnesandnoble.com, then use a search engine for Irish History, you will find several Irish book sellers, and may have better luck with them.

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 02:49 PM

Frank,

You might try this resource: Old Song Books.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From:
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 03:05 PM

John Ward's Collection of Irish Songs, Ward Music Pub. Co., Oak Park [Chicago], Ill., 1947.
Copy in the Library of Congress Folklore Archive. Most are comic songs.

Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: I'M A MAN YOUSE DON'T MEET EVERY DAY
From:
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 03:44 PM

Here's a song from John Ward's Collection.

I'M A MAN YOUSE DON'T MEET EVERY DAY.

I've a neat little cabin that's built out of mud,
Not far from the county kildare,
I've an acre or two where I grow my own spuds,
I've enough and a little to spare,
Sure I've not come over here seeking your jobs,
But a short little visit to pay,
So be aisy and free while you're drinking with me,
I'm a man you don't meet every day.

Chorus:
Come fill up your glasses, And drink what you will,
And whatever the damage I'll pay,
So be aisy and free while you're drinking with me,
I'm a man youse don't meet every day.

I've a neat little colleen that dwells in my cot,
Oh happy contented is she;
I've a thumping big lad that will say to his dad,
There's a man youse don't meet every day.
And when for my leisure I'm out for a walk,
The boys they all stop and stare,
And they say to each other as I'm passing by,
There's a man youse don't meet every day.

[There are at least three earlier American records of versions of the song.]

X:1
T:I'm a man youse don't meet every day
S:Traditional Air and Words Collected by John J. Ward.
N:Ward's Collection, 1947
Q:120
L:1/8
M:6/8
K:C
C/ D/| E F E D E D|C E G A2 B|\
c G F E F E|(D3D2)C/ D/|E F E D E D|\
C E G A2 A/ B/|c G E D C D|(C3C2) G|\
A F G A B A|A G E G2 A/ B/|\
c G E E F E|(D3D2)C/ D/|E F E D E D|\
C E G A2 c/ A/|G E C D C D|(C3C2||\
"Chorus"G|A F A A B A|A G E G2 G/ G/|\
c G F E F E|(D3D2) C/ D/|E F E D E D|\
C E G A2 c/ A/|G E C D C D|(C3C2)|]

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: Llanfair
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 05:25 PM

Hey, nonperson, thanks for the verses. I've been singing the Pogues' version of "Man you don't meet every day", and had no idea where it came from, I can expand it a little, now. Cheers! Hwyl, Bron.

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: Frank Hamilton
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 05:38 PM

I would appreciate any other websites you might recommend to obtain folk song books please. Any info would be gratefully recieved. I'm looking for the Bronson books of music to the Sharp collection. Also any other books of collections of folk songs by collectors.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: bob schwarer
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 07:04 PM

Here are a few sites. Some will put you in touch with other dealers who may have what you want.
Good luck.

http://www.abebooks.com/
http://www.bibliofind.com/
http://www.powells.com/
http://www.swifty.com/wells/

Bob S.

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: bob schwarer
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 07:05 PM

Ooops, forgot the line breaks, but you can figure it out.

Bob

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 07:21 PM

Good for you, Bob. There's also www.bookfinder.com which searches about six or seven of the other sites for you and then lists offerings from them all, including ABE, Powell's, etc. Very handy.

One of our Mudcat heros (who may prefer to remain anonynous) just got the five volume Dover reprint of Child from a bookstore in Maine. He was led to it by a note from Ed Cray on the ballad listserv. Had to pay $20 per volume. But I've seen that edition listed on those internet used-book sites for $400 and $500 for the set (!), so Anon did pretty well. Still, you might turn up a copy of the Folklore Associates reprint (five volumes, bound in three), so don't give up!

Bronson, on the other hand, recently cost supreme-Mudcatter Bruce O. about $150 per volume (there were four of 'em). But hold onto your wallet! Our own Dick Greenhaus has been negotiating with Princeton for the right to put the entire work up here on the Digital Tradition! It'll be a hell of a task, but he's working on it. (Loud cheers!!)

Sandy

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From:
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 07:44 PM

I am looking for the sheet music for The Wind In the Willow. Can you help me.

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 08:25 PM

Lesley N. e-mailed me two weeks ago to report finding the Dover "Child Ballads" at http://www.bookfinder.com/ for $95 for the set. I just checked Bookfinder today, and the ones available were more like $150 a volume. That $95 set must have flown out of the store. Did you get it, Lesley?
I'm the one Sandy led to the $100 set. I ordered it just before I left for Los Angeles two weeks ago, and it hasn't arrived yet. Wouldn't ya know it, I walked into a bookstore on the beach, and found the second volume of Child - for three bucks! I scoured the shop for the other four volumes, but didn't find them. After spending $100 on the set of five, I'm almost glad I didn't find the other four volumes. I'm happy to report that volume 2 is wonderful, and I'm looking forward to getting the set. Thanks for the tip, Sandy.
Now, now the book I've been looking for for two years is Songs of the American West, by Lingenfelter and Dwyer. It was published by the University of California Press in 1964, so you wouldn't think it would be particularly rare.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 22 Aug 99 - 08:34 PM

Trouble is, Joe, them's as has it, keeps it! I've been looking for Belden (Missouri) for a long time, wincing at and then ignoring over-priced offerings. Liam's brother just found a copy for me! I'm delighted and can hardly wait until he gets back from Ireland.

Now mt quest is for Brewster (Indiana). Anybody out there got an extra copy?

Sandy

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From:
Date: 23 Aug 99 - 12:56 PM

Agah! 1 page of my xerox got separated. Here's the rest of the song above.

I've a neat little colleen that dwells in my cot,
Oh happy contented is she;
I've a thumping big lad that will say to his dad,
There's a man youse don't meet every day.
And when for my leisure I'm out for a walk,
The boys they all stop and stare,
And they say to each other as I'm passing by,
There's a man youse don't meet every day.

I'm going to copy-and-paste it in with the rest of the song - hope you don't mind.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: Jen
Date: 23 Aug 99 - 06:20 PM

Also, you might try(let's see if I remember how to do links) Addall.com which is another thing like bookfinder, only they search at least 20 bookstores.

I have v.4 of the Child books, and a compilation of the whole set in one volume. Whatever good that is! They are expensive. But since I usually find all my good songbooks at cheap-o booksales, I have hope that I'll eventually find the others.

Jen

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: GeorgeH
Date: 24 Aug 99 - 09:02 AM

Suddenly everyone appears to be hunting Child (there's been a thread on this on r.m.f. recently. Frank - did you really mean Bronson's music to the Sharp collection, or to Child?? Anyone who's not checked this out needs to be warned that both the original Child "English and Scotish Popular Ballads" and the Dover re-print are WITHOUT TUNES (except for a very few, described as "less well known" or something, gathered as an appendix at the end of the collection). I THINK it was Bronson who published an extensive set of tunes to the Ballads, but that publication seems even harder to locate than the Child collection itself. And if you want to check out the Child books then any public library should be able to get hold of them . . given their second-hand cost that might be a wise precaution before purchasing. They are a "scholarly" work rather than a singers sourcebook . . (but no, our set's not up for sale).

G.

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 24 Aug 99 - 06:45 PM

Child was a literary man, not a musician. He did include a brief "addenda" with a handful of tunes, but his focus was on texts. Bronson performed the heroic task of chasing down every truly traditional tune known for the ballads that Child included in his 305. Princeton published the four massive volumes and included not only the tunes, with Bronson's comments, but also the texts! Later, Bronson published a single volume (in paper, too) of a selection of the ballads. I'm not at my bookshelves, but I think it was titled "The Singing Tradition of the Child Ballads," or words to that effect. That book may be easier to find and will certainly cost a lot less than the large, expensive Princeton hardcovers.

Sharp, unlike Child, published words and tunes in his extremely valuable "English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians" (Oxford Univ. Press; originally in two volumes, later reprinted in a single volume). Sharp also published many collections of English songs. All of his books are worth tracking down.

Good hunting!

Sandy

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: David
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 03:11 AM

Frank,

For Irish songbooks still in print, which are sometimes hard to get here in the states, you might try

www.irishbook.com

It's a good resource for all things Irish.

Happy singing,

David

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: Frank Hamilton
Date: 25 Aug 99 - 04:59 PM

Sorry! I meant Child not Sharp.

Frank

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Oct 99 - 10:18 PM

I came across a copy of Edith Fowke's Folk Songs of Canada at an online bookstore this evening, and I'm wondering if I ought to spend $23 on it. I already have her Penguin Book of Canadian Folk Songs. Is anyone familiar with both? should I spend my 23 bucks?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: Hutzul
Date: 02 Oct 99 - 02:21 AM

I have found the best source for used books is www.bibliofind.com. I've used them several times and they always come up with several sources and price comparisons.

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: lamarca
Date: 04 Oct 99 - 04:58 PM

A very useful site for searching for used books is sponsored by an antiquarian book society, and lists a whole bunch of used book search engines. My favorite is www.abebooks.com.

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Oct 99 - 07:01 PM

Still hoping for comments on Fowke's Folk Songs of Canada. Can anybody tell me what are the really good collections of Canadian songs?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: lamarca
Date: 04 Oct 99 - 09:58 PM

Joe, I have several, all now out of print, that I've acquired through used bookstores and search services. Some of the ones I have are:
Kenneth Peacock's 3 volume set "Songs of the Newfoundland Outports"
W. Roy McKenzie - Ballads and Sea Songs from Nova Scotia
Greenleaf & Mansfield - Ballads and Sea Songs of Nova Scotia
Helen Creighton - Folksongs from Southern New Brunswick and
Songs and Ballads from Nova Scotia

you can tell I'm fond of the Maritimes...if you search www.abebooks.com for "Fowke, Edith" and "Canada", you'll find several copies of "Folksongs of Canada" for less than $23 even with the shipping, so I'd say order it from one of their book dealers. I've never had a bad experience with their listing dealers, and I've spent a lot of money with them!

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Oct 99 - 10:50 PM

ok, friends..just wondering..Child originally published his stuff without all the footnotes and versions...and with a lot more songs...he seems to have edited the collection down to what he considered the 'best' or most representative...these were published as part of a set of books called 'British Poets'...I acquired this set..(8 volumes in 4) about 20 years ago, but have not seen many references to it(referenced as entered in records in 1857..published in 1878-80 in this version..Houghton, Osgood & Company..Boston..The Riverside Press, Cambridge)...and with the Dover set going at such inflated prices, I just wonder what the market value of the set is?

(am I tempted to sell it?..hmmm...maybe)

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 04 Oct 99 - 11:07 PM

I have three "Canadian" folk song books that I enjoy:

"Songs and Ballads from Nova Scotia" by Helen Creighton

Creighton Collected avidly and published other folk song collections also I think. There was a post to the Mudcat sometime back about a Canadian Radio Station doing a retrospective on her work (on Tuesday or Thursday afternoons I can't remember.

"Ballads and Sea Songs From Nova Scotia" by Roy McKensie
Good book for lyrics, unfortunately it includes very few tunes.

"Come and I will Sing You: A Newfoundland Songbook" by Genevieve Lehr.
This is one of my favorites with some songs that I have not found anywhere else. I learned "Common Sailors" from it.

"Old-time Songs and Poetry of Newfoundland" Songbook published by Gerald S. Doyle Limited. This is one of those songbooks published in the 20's and 30's with insurance ads etc. throughout. It's a fun little book.

Anyway I've found them just by looking through used book stores over the years, and at library sales.

lamarca We have to compare collections some time. I haven't seen the Greensfield and Mansfield book before.

There is a guy who sells used folk song books out of Canada that usually has a number of Canadian related material. I have misplaced his site. If I find it I will post it.

Good Luck.

JAB

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 04 Oct 99 - 11:19 PM

The site I know of is Used Books Through Mike Anderman, at http://home.istar.ca/~anderman/

They have Fowke for $25.00 which is more expensive than your find Joe.

The best folk song collection I've found is at the Seattle Public Library in Downtown Seattle. I wonder if they would do an inter-library loan for you through your local library. Worth a try.

JAB

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: bigJ
Date: 05 Oct 99 - 04:40 PM

About a week ago there was a lady in the London area offering all 5 Child volumes in the small ads on the Musical Traditions web site - worth a try!

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: fox4zero
Date: 05 Oct 99 - 06:27 PM

Bill D. I found an 8 volume set of Child in the British Poet series when I used to hang around the Fourth Avenue Booksellers (NYC) in the early 1950's. Your mention of your 4 volume set is the first reference I have ever heard to these very early Child Ballads. I have always wondered about their value...the fly leaf was marked "Rare" and was priced at $32 in the "olden days" The dealer had mercy on a student and let me have them for every cent on me...$15

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Oct 99 - 01:31 PM

Oh, Parish! *grin*...such a deal!..by 1978 or so when I got mine, the 4 vol. set was up to about $100!...I rescued them from a box on the floor where a bookstore owner was about to advertise them in her newsletter...I have enjoyed them a lot over the years, but I can't say I have done justice to the resource they are. But you just CANT let something like that sit!..( I spent every dime I could spare when I had it, on records, books, etc..would never get some of those things now!)

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: lamarca
Date: 06 Oct 99 - 02:58 PM

BillD, there's a good site for book collectors that has a page on how to value books - their general page is www.rarebooks.org and the appraisal page is here. You could perhaps find out what your British Poets are worth through them... (now why didn't I just phone you? - cause you can't do a blue clicky thing on the phone...)

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Oct 99 - 03:30 PM

not even by singing "Woad" in Xhosa?...think about it

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 06 Oct 99 - 04:19 PM

Just saw this thread for the first time. I guess I was in Ireland when it started. "Mystery Poster" of 22AUG and others might be interested to know that the first verse of "I'm a Man Youse Don't Meet Everyday" is also in Folk Songs of Australia, Volume 2, by Meredith, Covell and Brown.

Who is that masked man?

All the best,
Dan

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: MMario
Date: 06 Oct 99 - 04:27 PM

BillD -- I owe you a round at the Tavern. singing "Woad" in Xhosa?!?!?!

all together...*groan*...

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 06 Oct 99 - 04:33 PM

Hi Joe!

I don't have Folk Songs of Canada. I have More Folk Songs of Canada. I have seen the former and I recall they have a similar format. More Folk Songs of Canada is interesting but I would not pay a lot of money for it. It probably has about 60 songs in it.

Personally, I like Traditional Singers and Songs of Ontario, also by Edith Fowke. I have a number of other Canadian song books including some of the ones mentioned by lamarca and JAB above. Peacock and Leach are very interesting... if only you can get them at a sessible price; I could not. You would certainly enjoy Helen Creighton's books. There is also Folksongs of New Brunswick by Edward D. Ives.

All the best,
Dan

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Oct 99 - 09:51 PM

*grin*...thanks, MMario...does my heart good to be groaned at...(the best thing is that I KNOW I can use one like that here and people will GET it! heading to the tavern for drinks................

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 24 Jul 00 - 01:42 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: Gypsy
Date: 24 Jul 00 - 04:12 PM

Frank, if you want to play and sing the ballads, i really recommend the Singing Tradition of Childs popular ballads by Bronson. If you must have a vintage copy, sit down. the cheapest that i have found was 750.00. I wound up having a reprint done by books on demand. I'm not even going to talk about the cost of the original volumns by Child. Together, they cost more than any car i've ever owned.

Subject: RE: Searching for Songbooks
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Jul 00 - 12:37 AM

Hi, Gypsy - how do you contact Books on Demand, and how much did they charge for a reprint of Bronson?
-Joe Offer-