BS: Language Pet Peeves

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 05:18 PM

A few years ago I heard a Beeb weathher forecaster on the telly say that at least the overnight rain had washed the humidity out of the air.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 04:43 PM

'cop-speak'..."At this point in time the inebriated individual exited the vehicle"
I wonder if that is taught in police training?

(And I HEARD an announcer say on the radio, "This program was pre-recorded earlier.")

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 01:57 PM

Half a pee

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 01:44 PM

Pronounced the same way whichever spelling you prefer.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Howard Jones
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 01:43 PM

I am prepared to defend the use of "pee" for pence. It evolved quite spontaneously on decimalisation, when it became necessary to distinguish between "New Pence" (as they were then known) and the old penny, not just on paper but in speech. "One penny" was ambiguous, "one New Penny" a bit of a mouthful, so it became "one pee".

If "pence" was said in full, it was emphasised to make it clear it meant New Pence, whereas pre-decimal the emphasis was on the amount. So we lost the old contractions: "tuppence" (emphasis on the first syllable) signified 2d whereas "two pence" (with either equal emphasis or slightly more on "pence") meant 2p. Same with "thruppence". The "ha'penny" (1/2d) became "half-p"

Of course, in time people became used to the new coinage and there was less chance of confusion, but by then these usages had become established.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: s&r
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 01:38 PM

Pronounced as jail in my dictionary Kevin

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Penny S.
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 01:34 PM

"With respect", "With all due respect," "With the greatest respect," etc. You know that what follows is totally without it.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 01:28 PM

"...'goal' spelling of 'jail' " (Foolestroupe - 03 Oct 10 - 06:27).

- the word is gaol. Pronounced the way it is spelled.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 11:52 AM

"One pence"

~Michael~

"One pee."

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 11:46 AM

"Burn?" I meant "blow up."

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 11:42 AM

I was only going from what Richard said. Do they burn hospitals in London, Canada?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 11:41 AM

"Avoid like the plague"? perhaps...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 11:39 AM

Unfortunately, Steve Wikipedia has:

London is a city in Southwestern Ontario, Canada along the Quebec City – Windsor Corridor with a metropolitan area population of 457,720; the city proper had a population of 352,395 in the 2006 Canadian census. The estimated metro population in 2009 was 489,274.[2] It was named after the city of London in England.[3] London is the seat of Middlesex County, at the forks of the non-navigable Thames River, approximately halfway between Toronto, Ontario and Detroit, Michigan. The City of London is a separated municipality, politically separate from Middlesex County, though it remains the official county seat.


Confused? You will be!

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 11:35 AM

"I'm sure there's a London in Canada."

Without wishing to sound imperialist, "London" on its own, to all sane people (except perhaps for those living in the vicinity of London, Canada), means London on the banks of the Thames. A qualifier would be needed for the Canadian one for most people who don't live in Canada, and even for some who do. Let common sense prevail.

"And "albeit" is a perfectly proper word."

In every circumstance it can be replaced by although, though or but. It is just pretentious. Literate people avoid it like the plague, as with clichés.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 11:29 AM

pre-order

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 11:29 AM

I'm sure there's a London in Canada. And "albeit" is a perfectly proper word.

But people who say "Can I" when they mean "May I" are bad for my blood pressure.

And so are people who say "literally" when they mean the opposite.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 11:28 AM

liase

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 11:26 AM

One of the commonest modern horrors is saying "prior to" when you simply mean "before."

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 11:18 AM

I lied. Do not say "albeit" within my earshot. And, yanks, there is no need whatever to say "London, England."

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 11:13 AM

I have to say that, at this particular moment in time, I can't think of any particular peeve's.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 11:11 AM

Here are four expressions which deserve pet-peevehood. They are from a recent thread, but bear repeating.
========
picking his brains (what an ugly image)

diddley or diddley squat (Just act yourself what it really means.)

verbal diarrhea (I'm eating!)

anal, or anal retentive (meaning merely "More particular than I")

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: GUEST,CrazyEddie
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 10:51 AM

Patsy's "Can I be frank?" brings to mind a Goons' sequence

Gridpype Thynne: "I'll I be Frank?"

Moriarty: "Yes, I'll be Gladys"

(Sound of Thynne slapping Moriaty across the face)

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: s&r
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 10:45 AM

A Hostelry every time. The omission of the 'h' sound is a bizarre hangover from court pronunciation when French was the language of the court. Kestionnaire and onvelope are similar.

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Penny S.
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 10:36 AM

Putting "Without Prejudice" at the head of an offensive document intended to damage someone else. Only known one usage of it, and I don't know the correct meaning of the phrase.

Using the term "goodwill payment" of a payment from a debtor designed to cover a portion of expenditure by the group he was in debt to.

Same misuser of language in each case, and one who wouldn't, indeed didn't, recognise real goodwill when it was offered.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 10:19 AM

I think it was S&R who declared:

Don't like the affectation of an otel, but like even less an hotel with the'h' aspirated.

So is "a hostelry" or maybe "an 'ostelry" better than those?

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Jeanie
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 09:30 AM

I find this very irritating in TV and Radio interviews with members of the public:

"I'm married to Mary" - or "This is Bert Johnson, and you're married to Mary, is that right, Bert ?"

as if there is only ONE person called Mary in the whole world ! It should be: "My wife's name is Mary" or "...and your wife's name is Mary...."

Another pet peeve of mine is a pronunciation issue: the use of an open "ay" sound for the rounded "o" sound. I actually stopped listening to my local radio station because the travel reporter annoyed me so much with his pronunciation: "All clear on the M25 say far" (instead of "so far"). The presenter of a recent archaeology programme on TV did the same, and kept talking about "stanes" and "banes". This would be fine if the rest of the pronunciation was "heightened RP" (i.e. Noel Coward-type English), but these random rogue vowel sounds amongst otherwise standard RP really irritate.

Another annoying pronunication issue amongst broadcasters in particular: the use of "-in" as the ending of a word, instead of "-ing" when this is not part of their native dialect - i.e. the rest of their pronunciation is standard RP. Do they think it makes them sound relaxed and cool ?

- jeanie

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 08:59 AM

Can I be frank? (meaning they can justify how rude they are going to be).

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Hrothgar
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 08:32 AM

Surplus prepositions (if anybody needs to know what a preposition is, PM me and I'll explain without telling anybody) as in "signed off on". What's wrong with "signed"?

Nigel, I am of the opinion that anybody who is being interviewed should be cut off after ten "y'know" (or "y'knows?") in the interview, or possibly after five in the one sentence.

I have counted up to ten in one long, rambling sentence, Usually they seem to be preceded by "um". It appears to be a disease amongst those of the football persuasions, especially soccer and rugby league.

Yes, I'm a snob.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: GUEST,Nigel
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 08:02 AM

"You know" and "know what I mean" make me cringe. If I know, why tell me, and if I don't know what you mean then I'll tell you.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Wyrd Sister
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 06:24 AM

'ahead of' meaning 'before'!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: s&r
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 06:08 AM

And 'he gave it to John and I'

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: s&r
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 05:59 AM

Dissect and cervical with long 'i'sounds. Questionnaire and quarter with no 'w' sound (eg courter). Don't like the affectation of an otel, but like even less an hotel with the'h' aspirated.

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 05:23 AM

Whether it is X Factor, or an obesity fitness programme or anything people are lumped together to train and go through their paces 'boot camp' I hate that.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 04:09 AM

nucular

Suggestions for use of this term welcome - it looks like a good word in its own right, but what does it mean?

Nuclear I understand already, thank you (when pronounced correctly)

Paws

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Darowyn
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 03:52 AM

"Attendees"!
Someone who attends an event is an attender.
Someone who is 'attended to' is an attendee.
So at a gig the audience are the attenders, and the artists are the attendees.
The "..er" suffix is active. The "...ee" suffix is passive.
A referee is someone who is referred to. A referrer is someone who refers.
I saw a notice on a bus recently. It said "Seating capacity 56. Standees 12"
Standees must be people who have been stood up. How sad for them!
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Slag
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 11:44 PM

"The END of the DAY"! How about "after all is said and done" or "The bottom line is" or "To sum up" or " the net effect is" or "with the results being" or and the conclusion is" or "in the final analysis" or just about anything except "at the end of the day" Please!

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 09:39 PM

I agree my peeve doesn't make much sense, but I'm peeved by people who introduce themselves by simply walking up to another person and saying their own name. As in:

"Leeneia? Jonathan Bimblethwaite."

Apparently I am so unimportant that it's too much effort to say, "Hello, I'm Jonathan Bimblethwaite and..."

When someone does that, I stare at them and say "What about him?"

When I worked at the fabric store, pushy women would sometimes barge into somebody else's transaction with "Scissors?" or "Velcro?"

I didn't let them get away with it. The person I was helping deserved my full concentration.
=============
This isn't a peeve, but it gave us a good laugh. A novel involving concert violinists said that when premier violinist So-and-so performed, "there wasn't a dry seat in the house."

Obviously got 'wasn't a dry eye' mixed up with 'wasn't an empty seat.'

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 09:37 PM

How could I have forgotten?

"try and".

In the vast preponderance of circumstances "try to" is correct.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 06:41 PM

"a$$hat" or "asshat" is a term I've heard used. An "ass" is a donkey,
so a donkey hat doesn't make sense to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 06:27 PM

"There seems to be a belief among tv football commentators and commenters that "Goal" is an indelicate word in some wa"

... because they associate it with the 'goal' spelling of 'jail'.... and don't want to upset the supporters?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 03:57 PM

"Go figure" in my neck of the woods usually means "Who would have thought it?"

We've always referred to it as the NYTimes and the Times of London as just the Times.

I can still hear Mrs. Worcester, my old English/Latin teacher, scolding any of us who used "like" when we meant "such as." It's a lost cause, it's even been deemed "acceptable," but it still bugs me, greatly! The best example of incorrect usage she used with us was the old "Winston tastes good like a cigarette should!" My, how times have changed.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Penny S.
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 03:40 PM

"Comprises of".

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Penny S.
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 03:35 PM

"Fascia" instead of "facia". Lost cause already. It's a bundle of things, such as ligaments in the foot, not a facing board.

And there's something else, but fortunately I have forgotten it.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 01:39 PM

"Here, here!" instead of "Hear, hear!"
"It's a mute point" instead of "moot point"

I think the reason "Here, here!", "mute point", "peaked", "baited breath" and "forward" bug me so much is that by using homonyms, people are losing the original sense(s) of the word(s), along with a certain richness of expression (and even understanding) which accompany the "proper" spelling(s), and I regret that loss -- even while knowing it's inevitable.

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 01:15 PM

There seems to be a belief among tv football commentators and commenters that "Goal" is an indelicate word in some way, and the euphemism "It's in the back of the net" is somehow more seemly. I don't think I have ever heard the word "Goal" on Alan Hanson's lips, for example.

Now, why do I find this so profoundly irritating?

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 01:13 PM

in order to,....why not just to?

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 12:48 PM

I think it was GUEST,Bert who asked us:

Second of all

Surely it should be 'second of all but one' seeing as 'first of all' has already dealt with the first one?

"Of them all, the first is" blah-blah = "First of all"

"Of them all, the second is" whatever = "Second of all"

So "second of all" is perfectly logical, Bert.   I wouldn't use it myself, because the unadorned "second" is quite sufficient in that context and "second of all" is kind of cumbersome, but it's not logically or grammatically wrong.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 12:02 PM

>But is there a preferable way to disambiguate, that is both uncomplicated and concise for more general use? <

CS ~ I think 'The [London] Times', or '"The Times" of London' would both be acceptable.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: GUEST,999
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 10:11 AM

Expressions such as `Are you joking me?`

Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 10:08 AM

"The American usage [following on from a post above] 'The London Times'. There is no such newspaper. It is called simply 'The Times'."

That's true MtheGM, and I understand that both are proper names so the insertion of a place name (as in London) isn't grammatical, but for US readers the default cultural assumption would (probably?) naturally be that if someone refers to 'The Times' they will be using shorthand for "The NY Times"?

Personally I'm inclined to think "The London Times" is sloppy journalism because you'd never get that kind of fudge used as a reference in academic literature. But is there a preferable way to disambiguate, that is both uncomplicated and concise for more general use?