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Search for the Real C. Fox Smith

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Subject: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 09:08 AM

Our team of volunteers has been successful recently in harvesting more background information with regard to the British poet Cicely Fox Smith (1882-1954) but this just makes us hungry for more! Here are some leads for which we would appreciate help, mostly in terms of securing high quality scanned images of articles and photographs:

1. FOLK ON TAP, "Cicely Fox Smith: Hampshire Resident and Poet of the Sea and Sailors," July-September, 1999, article with photographs of C. Fox Smith and her brother Phil W. Smith, pp. 17-18; we have a poor quality photocopy of this article.

2. DEVON LIFE, "Cicely Fox Smith of Bow," May, 1977, pp. 28-29; we have a poor quality photocopy of this article.

3. SEA BREEZES, "Cicely Fox Smith," November, 1966.

4. SINGING SANDS, by Cicely Fox Smith, Hodder & Stoughton, London, UK, © 1918, novel set in Victoria, BC.

5. THE BOOKMAN, "Review of Cicely Fox Smith's literary works by W. A. F.," published by George H. Doran Co., New York City, US, September, 1923, p. 274; we have a high quality scan of p. 274 but not the rest of the article.

There are other articles and books for which we have original or high quality scans but if you think you have access to something of interest please post to this thread or send me a PM.

Here's a Facebook link to my current inventory of illustrations and photographs associated with the world of C. Fox Smith
: click here!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble and Jim Saville


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Oct 10 - 09:11 AM

Here is a copy of our working bibliography for C. Fox Smith:

Cicely Fox Smith's poetry books include:

Songs of Greater Britain, Sherratt & Hughes, Manchester, UK, © 1899
The Foremost Trail, Sampson Low, Marston & Co., London, UK, © 1899
Men of Men, Sampson Low, Marston & Co., London, UK, © 1900
Wings of the Morning, Elkin Mathews, London, UK, © 1904
Lancashire Hunting Songs & Other Moorland Lays, J. E. Cornish, Manchester, UK, © 1909
Songs in Sail, Elkin Mathews, London, UK, © 1914
Sailor Town: Sea Songs and Ballads, Elkin Mathews, London, UK, © 1914 & George H. Doran Co., New York, US, © 1919
The Naval Crown, Elkin Mathews, London, UK, © 1915
Fighting Men, Elkin Mathews, London, UK, © 1916
Small Craft, Elkin Mathews, London, UK, © 1917 & George H. Doran Co., New York, US, © 1919
Rhymes of the Red Ensign, Hodder & Stoughton, London, UK, © 1919
Songs and Chanties: 1914-1916, Elkin Mathews, London, UK, © 1919
Ships and Folks, Elkin Mathews, London, UK, © 1920
Rovings, Elkin Mathews, London, UK, © 1921
Sea Songs and Ballads 1917-22, Houghton Mifflin, London, UK, © 1923 & Houghton Mifflin, New York, US, ©1924
Full Sail: More Sea Songs and Ballads, Houghton Mifflin, London, UK, © 1926
Sailor's Delight, Methuen & Co., London, UK, © 1931
All the Other Children, Methuen & Co., London, UK, © 1933
Here and There in England with the Painter Brangwyn, F. Lewis, Publishers, Ltd., Leigh-on-Sea, UK, © 1945
Country Days and Country Ways Trudging Afoot in England, F. Lewis, Publishers, Ltd., Leigh-on-Sea, UK, © 1947
Ship Models, Country Life, London, UK, © 1951

Note, many of these books overlap in terms of poems included, and there are sometimes slight differences between poems of the same title from book to book.

Other books written, co-authored, or edited by Cicely Fox Smith include:

The City of Hope (novel set in Alberta), Sidgewick & Jackson, London, UK, © 1914
Singing Sands (novel set in Victoria, BC), Hodder & Stoughton, London, UK, © 1918
Peregrine in Love (novel set in Victoria, BC), Hodder & Stoughton, London, UK, © 1920
Sailor Town Days, Methuen & Co., London, UK, © 1923
A Book of Famous Ships, Houghton Mifflin, New York, US, © 1924
The Return of the Cutty Sark, Methuen & Co., London, UK, © 1924
Ship Alley: More Sailor Town Days, Houghton Mifflin, New York, US, © 1925
Tales of the Clipper Ships, Houghton Mifflin, New York, US, © 1926
A Book of Shanties (traditional sea songs), Methuen & Co., London, UK, © 1927
A Sea Chest: An Anthology of Ships and Sailormen, Methuen & Co., London, UK, © 1927

Ancient Mariners, Methuen & Co., London, UK, © 1928
There Was a Ship: Chapters from the History of Sail, Methuen & Co., London, UK, © 1929
Ocean Racers, Philip Allan, London, UK, © 1931
True Tales of the Sea, Oxford University Press, London, UK, © 1932
Anchor Lane, Methuen & Co., London, UK, © 1933
Peacock Pride (with Madge S. Smith), Frederick Muller, London, UK, © 1934
Adventures and Perils, Michael Joseph, London, UK, © 1936
Three Girls in a Boat (with Madge S. Smith), Oxford University Press, London, UK, © 1938
All the Way Round: Sea Roads to Africa (travel), Michael Joseph, London, UK, © 1938
The Ship Aground: A Tale of Adventure, Oxford University Press, London, UK, © 1940, 1942, 1958
The Voyage of the Trevessa's Boats, Oxford University Press, London, UK, © 1940
The Story of Grace Darling (biography), Oxford University Press, London, UK, © 1940
Thames Side Yesterdays, F. Lewis, Publishers, Ltd., Leigh-on-Sea, UK, © 1945
Painted Ports (with Madge S. Smith), Oxford University Press, London, UK, © 1948, 1965
Knave-Go-By: The Adventures of Jacky Nameless (with Madge S. Smith), Oxford University Press, London, UK, © 1951
Seldom Seen (with Madge S. Smith), Oxford University Press, London, UK, © 1954
The Valiant Sailor (with Madge S. Smith), Oxford University Press, London, UK, © 1951, 1955, 1959)

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: The Doctor
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 06:45 AM

When I was in Whitby for the festival last August the Endeavour bookshop there had a box of Sea Breezes for sale. It might be worth contacting them to see what they've got. 01947 821331


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 08:25 AM

The Doctor-

Securing the relevant copy of Sea Breezes should be a piece of cake. Chris Roche currently edits that nautical magazine and has an amazing inventory of back issues as he recently disclosed to me. Now if he can just find the copy in his storerooms...

I have this vision of Chris's house in the process of never-ending renovation, with boxes and boxes of plunder from the seven or so seas stashed from the basement to the attic rafters. But I'm sure he can lay a hand on that issue.

However, if someone near the Endeavor Book shop in Whitby just happens to find a copy there, we would greatly appreciate it.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: The Doctor
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 09:43 AM

You never know what you may find. We were in a charity shop in Guisborough in the summer and I noticed about half a dozen copies of Sea Breezes. One of them, from 1966, just happened to have an article on ship wrecks in September, one of which was the SS Garsdale, complete with photo, the ship on which my wife's grandfather trained as a boy before the mast. He had left before it sank.


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 05:56 PM

I also love going through old bookshops!

My current frustration was being at a local maritime museum and knowing that what I was looking for was probably there. But for over ten years they couldn't employ a qualified librarian and where anything was appeared to be guesswork!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Oct 10 - 05:43 PM

Guess we'll have to continue to do our own homework!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: stallion
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 06:22 AM

We have an intersesting bookshop in York
www.kenspelman.com (blue clicky wouldn't work) and search author C F-S

        Ocean Racers - Nautilus Library No.23
Lancashire Hunting Songs, and Other Moorland Lays (Paperback)
        Rovings: Sea Songs and Ballads (1921) (Paperback) (ISBN: 9780548861042)
        Rovings: Sea Songs And Ballads (1921) (ISBN: 0548861048 / 0-548-86104-8)
Fighting Men (1916) (Paperback) (ISBN: 9780548742679)

        The Naval Crown: Ballads and Songs of the War (1915) (Paperback) (ISBN: 9780548894750)

Just a sample Charley dunno if it will help
Peter


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Ian Hendrie
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 09:28 AM

Try this link


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 11:28 AM

Peter and Ian-

That bookshop in York is really a fine one. I spent the better part of an afternoon looking through it in September. The CFS paperbacks listed are the recent Kessinger Publishing Rare Reprints, which are scanned copies of Smith's books. This practice by Kessinger does make her work more available and their reprints are inexpensive. But some of us still hunger for a high quality anthology.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 05:32 PM

Me too, Charlie. Kessingers are a last resort.


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 08:56 AM

Here's an update on the search.

I finally rediscovered the photocopy of the SEA BREEZES article, 1966, that Nobby Dye had kindly sent me in 2006.

I've also unraveled the mystery of the literary critique published in THE BOOKMAN, 1923. The citation is incorrect in my first post. There were at least two "Bookman" publications, one in New York City and one in London, and the fragment in question was from the London publication. I was finally able to access the entire article with the help of a librarian at Colby College here in Maine from their digital archives. It is, indeed, the best contemporary critique we've run across:

Miss Cicely Fox-Smith

Miss Cicely Fox-Smith has almost imperceptibly made her way into the front rank of those who sing of seamen and shipping. Her progress has been as unobtrusive as the rising of the tide. Readers of Punch and other periodicals are accustomed to expect something breezy, something with "the tar and seaweed smell," from a poem over the signature of "C. F. S." But with too many that is the limit of their acquaintance. A few have ventured further and bought one or two of the dainty little volumes of poems by C. Fox-Smith. Had they suspected a feminine authorship it might have added piquancy to their venture, and lent wings to her fame. But the author was obviously a man. What woman would talk about "Rusty red old hookers, going plugging round the world"? Besides, nautical journals found nothing in the poems to quarrel with; all the details were quite correct. Obviously a woman.

Seamen wrote many letters to "C. F. S." testifying that here at last was the genuine thing, something worth reading.

Miss Fox-Smith owes nothing to Masefield. In fact to some extent she is prior to Masefield. Sailor Town, which includes some of her best and most characteristic work – for example, "The Ballad of the Matterhorn," her own favourite, and "Rathlin Head," a great favourite with her critics – was written two years before Salt Water Ballads appeared. Nor, when her Muse leaves the sea for the dry land, does she owe anything to Kipling, as far as she knows, though the perusal of her "Prairie Shepherd" with its refrain,
"Baa, baa, black sheep, no one's fault but your own," is not likely to recall Kipling. "The Route March," with its imprecations on the foreign service boot – "We're 'oppin' and we're 'obblin' to a cock-eyed ragtime tune" – has really nothing in common with Kipling's "Boots." But the same cannot be said of her treatment of the mule -- "the late lamented army mule, you'll meet him in the stew" – which has a strong smack of the verses on the "Commissariat Camuel."

Having said that, you have said all there is to say. The vast majority of Miss Fox-Smith's poems are inspired directly by the living fact, the actual experience.

The "Prairie Shepherd" was connected with an important chapter in Miss Fox-Smith's life. A brother had settled in Alberta, and three years (sic) before the war she and other members of her family went out to join him. Twelve months of that western prairie were enough for them. "Bare and bald and droughty and dusty" it was in summer, and during the interminable winter "the fierce Keewatin whistled over the waste like a flight of geese from the Pole, and the strong breath of the Chinook thundered across the plains." Anyone who wants an unvarnished picture of a settler's life in Alberta should read her story, The City of Hope.

From Alberta to Victoria, B. C., was a pleasant change, and her old enthusiasm for the sea re-awoke as she wandered through "Sailor-Town," got glimpses into the interior of "Chinese Charley's junk store" and listened to

"Little tunes on Chinese fiddles in a quiet street,
Full of dinky Chinese houses."

In due time a return was made to London, and henceforward the ballads introduce themselves familiarly with such phrases as "Limehouse way, the other day" or "Down by Millwall Basin." The singer was in fact haunting the docks and the lower river, gathering that knowledge which she turned to such good account in Sailor Town Days. Loyalty to actual fact makes her introduce the chantey but sparingly into her ballads. "Sacramento" may be accounted one exception and "Heave all together" of "Rolling Home" another. The chantey has gone out with the going of the sailing ship. The few of these that are left are nearly all foreigners, and foreigners don't sing chanteys. But the spirit of the chantey, its rollicking breeziness, pervades her song, mingling with and often overcoming the melancholy of the seaman's ballad, sung, not round the capstan, but "in the tavern window old and brown," the long ballad, as she terms it, "that they generally sing through their noses," the "doleful, sentimental bawl" imitated by Kingsley in "The Last Buccaneer." In her words it is "a queer old quaver, shaky, shrill and sad, with queer little curly cues, twiddles and quavers," sung to the accompaniment of "a creaky old leaky concertina underneath the great gold moon." But this pathos wages a losing fight not only against her prevailing humour, the humour of "The Ballad of the Ressurection Packet of the Salt 'Orse Line," for instance, but against her high spirits, which insist on embarking on a good swinging rhythm.

Such musical verse, such singable ballads which retain their quality even when chanting of the

"Rampin', raw-boned, cast-steel-jawboned
Any transport smile,"

ought to proceed from a musician or the daughter of a musician. But she can put forward no such claim. Nor does she owe to heredity her great feeling for the music of the sea. You would imagine her father an old sea captain. But he was a solicitor. How then did the love of the sea come to her, living on those Lancashire wolds? "By intuition," she says. It is a riddle. Perhaps the explanation may be found in the way of her life on those wolds. She lived an open-air life, following on foot the Holcombe Harriers, whose huntsman, John Jackson, she celebrates in "For'ard on!" And roaming over the hillsides she got wide views of cloudland and plain down to the distant sea. Remember that Coleridge was similarly soaking himself in moorland air when he wrote the greatest of all sea poems.

Here on these Lancashire hills must have begun that love of the sea which was confirmed when she came south and haunted the London Docks, and steeped herself in sea-lore. She learned the heart of the sailor, his golden visions of lazying at home or in South Seas lotus lands, and his deep-seated mistrust of these visions.

"I'd want the hard-case mates a-bawlin', an' the strikin' o' the bell;
I've cursed it oft and cruel -- but I miss it all like hell."

"Ain't it queer," another of her sailors says, "how a feller never knows what he likes best till it goes?" Happier the Tommy of the "Grand Tour," undistracted by any sea longings, who has seen just as much as he wanted. "I've seen the Perramids and Spink, which I 'ad oft desired."

We suspect that Miss Fox-Smith has no longing for South Sea beaches or "Spinks," but is content with her own world, limited but inexhaustible, of docks and seamen and coasting vessels. Her senses are almost unconsciously on the alert to catch every little point of interest:

"The patter of reef-points on tops'ls a-shiver;
The song of the jibs when they tauten and quiver."

come as natural, unsought music to the ears of this true poet of the sea.

W. A. F.

Notes:

From The Bookman, "Cicely Fox Smith," by W. A. F., published by Hodder and Stoughton, London, UK, Volume 64, September, 1923, pp. 273-274 (via Colby College, Waterville, Maine, digital archives)

So far I've been unable to find out who "W.A.F." was and I'm still after a hardcopy version of the article because it has the best glossy photo of C. Fox Smith that we've seen; the copy that I photographed at the National Maritime Museum was folded twice across the image and even after editing in Photoshop it doesn't look as good as it should.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 12:55 PM

Charley - do we know anything her artist brother Philip Wilson Smith? There's a couple of examples of his work on the web, but no bio details. He was born in Crumpsall, Manchester in 1879.


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 02:43 PM

Thanks for reproducing the critique. She was unique.


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 06:20 PM

Sminky-

Thanks to the link to artwork by Philip Wilson Smith. We have only seen examples of his nautical illustrations for Cicely's books. We know that he was still alive during World War 2; we have a photo of him and Cicely at the time. But we don't know when he died.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Fidjit
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 04:00 AM

CHarley bit off thread, but bare with me

I like charity shops too and recently was in Malmsbury, Wilthshire and came across this

Cochrane
The Life And Exploits of a Fighting Captain, by Richard Harvey £2.99

All about England's forgotten other Hero

Earl of Dundonald, Lord Thomas Cochrane

Fought many battles against the French and won. Freed Chile, Peru and Brazil form the Portuguese. Greece from the Turks. Etc.

Cant seem to find any songs about him.

Loads about Nelson. Nothing about this man.

What do you know ?

Chas


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: The Doctor
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 05:01 AM

There is a book in the Cassell Military History Paperbacks series, 'Cochrane, Britannia's Sea Wolf', by Donald Thomas, published 2001, having been originally published in 1978. I bought it in a remainder shop but it's available second-hand on Amazon, and worth getting.


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 10:34 AM

Chas-

I did post what I know about Cochrane on your new thread.

Back to Cicely!

THE BOOKMAN literary critique also raises several questions which deserve more attention.

Which of Cicely's two brothers had ventured forth to Canada first and settled in Alberta. Was it her older brother Philip William Smith, or their eldest brother Richard Andrew Smith, or was it another relative such as her uncle Sidney Smith?

But there's a more major question raised by THE BOOKMAN article: how long did Cicely actually reside in Canada? Was it just "three years" immediately before World War 1 as stated in the article or almost ten years as our contemporary scholars, myself included, have assumed? It's stated in the 1911 British Census that Cicely was resident in Holcombe Cottage, Boothroyden, England at the time (before census day, which was 02 April 1911) with her sister and mother, although it's possible I suppose that she was only reported as being "resident." In a 1922 mini-biography of English authors it's also stated that "She visited Canada a few years before the Great War, living for a time at Lethbridge, Alberta, and Victoria, British Columbia." No historical support has surfaced for a residency in Canada from 1905 to November 17, 1913, when we see her name on a passenger list as arriving with her mother and sister at Liverpool on the steamer Teutonic from Montreal, Canada. In addition the fact that in 1909 she had published her 4th poetry book LANCASHIRE HUNTING SONGS & OTHER MOORLAND LAYS also mitigates against her being out of England. It was A. B. Blackmore who appears the original source suggesting a ten-year residency in Canada:

"During the next ten years (from 1905 to 1914) or so she appears to have travelled to Western Canada, studying sailing ships and their crews on the Pacific Coast," DEVON LIFE, May 1977, p. 28.

Cicely only provides in her own writing (from what I've reviewed) some clues about when she returned to England, a year or so before World War 1. She provides ample evidence that she resided in Alberta for almost a year before moving on the Victoria, BC, where she describes her residency in some detail but not its duration:

"Those were the times when I thumped the keys of a typewriter by day in the B.C. Lands Department, or else in a law office up two flights of stairs in Wharf Street (West side?). The law office had its points, in a way; it was next door but one from a ship-chandler's establishment (Peter McQuade & Son, Ship's Chandlery or possibly Marvin E. Boles & Co., Ship's Chandlery?), with blue-back charts in the windows and ship's sidelights and bunting and all the customary stock-in-trade of ship-chandlery the world over. And there was the Ship Antipode Company in white letters on a window name-board, and a junk store where they sold oilskins and cheap alarm-clocks and Chinese curios. ("Sailortown") That was on the street side; on the waterside you could see the last of the old sealing fleet mouldering away at their moorings, and hear the gulls mewing and calling, and once in a while catch a glimpse of a stately four-master moving up to the lumber mill wharf (Rock Bay Saw Mills) at the bottom of a street whose name I have clean forgotten (Store Street), where the sawdust lay under your feet as thick and soft as driven sand…" Excerpted from THERE WAS A SHIP, by Cicely Fox Smith, published by Edwin Valentine Mitchell, Hartford, Connecticut, ©1930, pp. 168-169.

We also have only found evidence in the local newspaper files of Cicely's short stories and poems being published in 1912. If she were in Victoria earlier, I'm convinced that she would have gotten something published for sure.

We are now in the process of searching the passenger lists from Liverpool to Montreal in 1911-1912 to see if we can pinpoint when she actually left for Canada, and who she was traveling with.

The search continues!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 12:55 PM

ancestry.ca has records of passenger lists and census data for a Cicely Smith or Cicely Smiths, but I am not a subscriber.


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 12:56 PM

Also border crossings, all this for a Cicely Smith born in England.


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 01:05 PM

Q-

Looks promising.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 02:40 PM

Here's new info harvested by Jake Wade (UK) on the travels of Cicely's eldest brother:

Arriving Quebec 14 August, 1908, onboard the Empress of Ireland, Richard A. Smith, age 31, able to Read & Write, Single, Solicitor, born in England, proceeding to Calgary.

So assuming we have no earlier Smith relatives in Canada, this entry makes it even more unlikely that Cicely ventured to Canada before him.

Jake is still sifting the records for when "Miss Smith" first arrived in Canada, no easy feat! But the focus has shifted to 1911.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 08:01 PM

I have also alerted the Victoria, BC, research volunteers to refocus on 1911-1912 to determine when Cicely first surfaced on the scene.

The Victoria newspapers of the day are actually available on-line to sift through, although the search becomes less efficient as one becomes distracted by the latest "Shipping News" or "Social Events."

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: GUEST,Belinda Crowson
Date: 01 Jan 12 - 03:50 PM

Not sure if you're still trying to track down this information.

Madge S. Smith visited Lethbridge, Alberta, in 1911/1912 to visit her brother R. Andrew Smith, a barrister in Lethbridge. All the article in the Lethbridge Herald mentions is that she came with her sister. This visit, though, would match up with the time period you're looking for when Cicely was in Canada.

Madge's book "Alberta and the Others" was set in Lethbridge (called Sunshine) and was published in 1915.


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: stallion
Date: 01 Jan 12 - 09:04 PM

Hi Charley,
I think from what I know of the census is that the people taking them were, in all my studies, jobsworth people with copperplate handwriting, the rule is if they aint in the house when he (and believe me they were all he's)turned up they were not recorded, the question was who is in your household NOW, insofar as I can work out if you were in transit you didn't count, similiarly if you were visiting you were included in the census even if you were not domiciled there. I crunched up a couple of census's for my disertation to compare changes in population, I compared the 1861 and 1891 census's for a parish in York. If CFS was included in the census she must have been there.
Peter


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: stallion
Date: 01 Jan 12 - 09:07 PM

There is of course the two year qualification for voting which may have influenced one to lie but women didn't get the vote til the 1918 reform Act so that motive can be ignored


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Jan 12 - 09:54 AM

Belinda-

"Madge S. Smith visited Lethbridge, Alberta, in 1911/1912 to visit her brother R. Andrew Smith, a barrister in Lethbridge. All the article in the Lethbridge Herald mentions is that she came with her sister. This visit, though, would match up with the time period you're looking for when Cicely was in Canada."

Thanks for your confirmation. We did find similar information in the on-line archives of the Lethbridge Herald, and additional information that indicated that Cicely and Madge's mother Alice was traveling with them as well. They subsequently travelled on to Victoria, BC, in the spring or summer of 1912, bought a house in the James Bay neighborhood, and settled there until the fall of 1913, when they returned to England.

We believe that their brother Richard married but that his wife died early and sadly there were no children. Richard rose to prominence in the legal community and eventually died during World War 2 in Victoria, BC.

We're still trying to puzzle out some more details, and folks such as you from all over the world have been a lot of help.

The Complete Poetry of Cicely Folk Smith is scheduled for publication in the winter of 2012 by Little Red Tree Publishing in Mystic, Connecticut. There are 640 of her poems harvested so far, as posted on her page at http://oldpoetry.com/home.

Peter-

What you say about the British Census tallies with the experience of our intrepid volunteer Jake Wade; Jake has dug up amazing details from the census, passenger records, death and birth records, and archival newspaper articles.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Sep 12 - 06:37 PM

The Complete Poetry of Cicely Fox Smith was, indeed, published in June of 2012 and is now available for purchase from Amazon.com

I am still looking for an original copy of FOLK ON TAP, "Cicely Fox Smith: Hampshire Resident and Poet of the Sea and Sailors," July-September, 1999, article with photographs of C. Fox Smith and her brother Phil W. Smith, pp. 17-18; we only have a poor quality photocopy of this article. A high resolution scan would be a desirable alternative. This article contains the only known photo of Cicely's brother Phil who illustrated many of her poems and short stories.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Sep 12 - 08:02 PM

Just sent out queries to "Nobby" Dye and Chris Roche.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 05:59 AM

The death of a Philip W. Smith, aged 76, was recorded at Holywell, Flintshire, Wales in June 1954.

Philip Wilson Smith was born in 1879, so this might be him.

Anyone got access to local newspapers for that time?


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 09:49 AM

Sminky-

Now that's a lead. We'll put Jake Wade (UK) right on it and see if he thinks it's nailed. Maybe he can turn up an obit.

It is challenging, to say the least, to search for information on folks whose last name is "Smith."

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 11:35 AM

It is challenging, to say the least, to search for information on folks whose last name is "Smith."

It certainly doesn't help!

I'm surprised there's not more info on Philip - artist and architect - his paintings seem to be all he left behind (there was no will).


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 11:56 AM

Sminky-

We were surprised as well. We've turned up 5 of his paintings which came up recently in art auctions. We can't find any archive of architectural etchings. We know two of his cousins were soldiers in the Boer War but we can't find any confirmation that Phil was also a soldier. We don't believe that he ever went to Canada either alone or with Cicely, her sister Madge and their mother Alice.

Cicely also died in 1954 but their sister Madge lived on until 1973.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 12:10 PM

Her obituary in The Times says that "her contributions to Punch over the initials C.F.S. were for many years eagerly read".

A Miss M. Tournour wrote (in 1954):

"There (Soberton House, 1939) I learned the absolute Englishness of both her and her sister. C.F.S. could run her farm and had a deep love of both domestic and wild animals. Her drawing-room was converted into a factory for the making of sailors' collars; she accommodated for a time 30 men training for Radar; went out in the darkness of the Hampshire Downs to help the bombed; could sit at the piano and play and sing sailor songs; was a fund of diverse knowledge and in moments of relaxation did the Times and Torquemada crosswords. Then at night, after a long day's work, it was affecting to see her stand to attention while the National Anthem was played at 9 o'clock."


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 12:39 PM

Sminky-

Yes, that description is certainly one of our favorites.

We wish we had a copy of her journal but so far one hasn't surfaced.

Do send me an e-mail so we can better keep track of you and share more information: ipbar*@*gwi.net (omit *).

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: RTim
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 05:22 PM

Charley - Exactly where in Hampshire did C.F.S. live and obviously farm?

Bow - where she died, is NOT in Hampshire.

Tim Radford


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Sep 12 - 08:20 PM

Tim-

Just where she was when is a working document. Here's the current draft:

Notes by Charles Ipcar, 9/6/2012

Cicely Fox Smith Residency

Brookfield, Lymm, Cheshire, UK-------------------------1882-1894
124 Upper Brooke St, Manchester, UK--------------------1894-1897
Ainsworth Hall, Bury, Lancashire, UK---------------------1897-190?
Holcombe Cottage, Boothroyden, Manchester, UK----------190?-1911
Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada----------------------------1911-1912
350 Simco St., James Bay, Victoria, British Columbia, Canada-1912-1913
Holcombe Cottage, Boothroyden, Manchester, UK-----------1913-1915
49 Deane Bank, Brandshaw, Bolton, Lancashire, UK----------1915-1918
Bury Farm, Chilbolton, Stockbridge, Hampshire, UK----------1918-1926
Court House, Overton, Basingstoke, Hampshire, UK----------1927-1931
Old House, Stoke Charity, Hampshire, UK------------------1932-1936
Soberton House, Meon Valley, Hampshire, UK---------------1937-1946
?----------------------------------------------------1947-1949
West Halse, Bow, Crediton, North Devon, UK----------------1950-1954

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Nov 13 - 03:37 PM

refresh


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Crane Driver
Date: 17 Nov 13 - 06:44 AM

Hi Charley

Regarding your list of addresses above, a 'C Fox Smith' is listed in the telephone directory for West Halse, Bow in 1948. Seems likely she went there direct from Soberton, probably in 1947.

Good luck

Andrew


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 17 Nov 13 - 11:34 PM

it's amazing what info is available!


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: GUEST,Xerxes
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 01:55 AM

Sminky, I too am very interested in PWS...Where he resided after ?
Bolton; where the sea illustrations now are hiding etc.are you still researching


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: GUEST,Xerxes
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 02:00 AM

Sminky I too am interested in the life and timeline of PWS. where he lived after Bolton; where his nautical illustrations have gone etc.Are you still researching?


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: JHW
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 04:15 AM

How did we know that Cicely pronounced her name unusually with the first syllable rhyming with rice rather than the rhyme with the sis of sister?


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 May 15 - 10:20 AM

Refresh!

We are in the process of proofing the expanded second edition of The Complete Poetry of Cicely Fox Smith. This edition will include some 100 additional poems, a bout half of which have never been published before.

Charlie Ipcar


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: GUEST,Hilary
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 04:51 PM

Fascinated by all your info on C fox smith. I am researching her sister Madge & see you say she died in 1973. Where? And what evidence do you have?


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Subject: RE: Search for the Real C. Fox Smith
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 09:03 PM

Hilary-

Please pursue this inquiry via e-mail: ipbar@gwi.net

We know exactly where and when she died, and the fact that she left no will.

Charlie Ipcar


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