BS: Christian Persecution

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 05:04 AM

Yes I do. Here it is.

My agenda is to laugh in the face of people who use loose terms such as "bear the brunt" and then throw in words such as statistics and evidence.

You assert Christians bear the brunt as it were. I say that not only is that not proven or could be proven, but the whole basis of such a pissing contest is unsavoury.

Unless you have a "Christian" agenda.

My agenda is persecution. Your agenda is Christian.

If you reckon your stance to be true, I suggest two things. Prove it. Explain the relevance of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 06:07 AM

I have posted numerous links.
Every one contains the statement that Christians bear the brunt of current persecution.
Did you follow any of them?
Read any?

Prove it.
Copious evidence provided.

Explain the relevance of it.
It is an issue.
It was also an issue that Jews were the most persecuted minority in occupied Europe.
They bore the brunt of that persecution.
Stating that does not require or imply any agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 06:37 AM

""Afghanistan, Somalia, Iraq, Syria and Sudan — accounted for 55 percent of all refugees in 2012. Of those displaced last year, 1.1 million are refugees and 6.5 million are internally displaced people.""

And that is only the ones who are still alive!

How can any other group be more persecuted than hese Muslims who make up 55% of all refugees and a huge proportion of those slaughtered.

You see Kevin, for some people, if it's Muslims killing other Muslims, of the wrong type, it is:

1) Not religious persecution.
2) Of no concern to them.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket's turn
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 06:45 AM

Christian persecution?

Here you go.

Fresh from the hen's bum.

Surely Christians wouldn't be behind wholesale persecution? zzzzz

Islamic persecution too, before you bleat.

Nothing special about Christians...

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 07:19 AM

Of course it's religious persecution when Sunni Muslims do it to to Shi'ites or the other way round, or when It's Protestants and Catholics, and I have never heard of anyone who would deny it, and it's a horrible things.

But when we focus attention on one thing it is quite unjustifiable to assume we are denying that other things matter. "All this talk about religious persecution means you are denying the existence of ill treatment of people with disabilities/ genital mutilation of girls/ nuclear proliferation"...

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 07:48 AM

No Kevin, what I posted directly refutes the claim that there is more persecution of Christians than of Muslims.

Whoever is putting the case that Christians are the most persecuted is relying on appeal to authority, authority with an axe to grind, and that is the most unreliable way to make a case.

We have two choices here! We can make a stand against persecution in all its forms, and put all our best efforts into eradicating it.

Or we can claim greater urgency in dealing with those who are like us and concentrate only on them, which takes us back to "and when they came for me........"

I know which course I would choose, and I'm trying very hard not to allow my distaste for those who choose the other to descend into outright contempt.

Just my tuppence worth!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 08:04 AM

Musket, your link says "Homosexual acts are illegal in most African countries" not just Christian ones.
It is a cultural not a religious issue.

Anyway I accept that Christians are guilty of religious persecution.
At least one of my recent links gave an example.
Pity you did not read it!

Don,
""Afghanistan, Somalia, Iraq, Syria and Sudan — accounted for 55 percent of all refugees in 2012

More than a quarter of all the Christians in Syria have been displaced in recent months.
No other group comes close.
In Iraq the Christian community has been persecuted almost out of existance. Not true of any other minority since the Jews were expunged.
Afghanistan and Somalia. Are there any religious minorities to be persecuted?
In Sudan there has been a genocide of Christians.
I posted about it a few years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 08:19 AM

Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 04:51 PM

From your list, let us just consider those conflicts that are of this century.
Sudan, where the Muslim government persecuted the Christian minority in Darfur to an extent verging on genocide.

And Iraq, where the once thriving Christian community has been persecuted almost to extinction.

Still no comment Don?

Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T - PM
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 06:12 PM

""Sudan, where the Muslim government persecuted the Christian minority in Darfur to an extent verging on genocide.""

I included Darfur because it was anti Christian.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 08:32 AM

Washington Post 2 days ago.

The upcoming 75th anniversary of Kristallnacht makes this an auspicious time to raise awareness about the contemporary violence targeting religious minorities and their places of worship. Of particular concern are attacks against Christian minorities that have occurred with alarming frequency from Syria to Egypt, from Iraq to Pakistan, and from Kenya to Sudan.
November 9 marks 75 years since the pogrom against Jews committed by mobs throughout the Nazi Reich. Often called Kristallnacht, or the "Night of Broken Glass," when rioters killed or injured hundreds of Jews; burned over 1,000 synagogues; destroyed 7,000 Jewish-owned shops and businesses; vandalized cemeteries and schools, and; sent 30,000 Jews to German concentration camps. It marked a turning point in the escalating campaign of persecution culminating in the Holocaust.
These events, seared into Jewish collective memory, make us doubly aware—and duty bound—to raise our voices when the deadly brew of religious bigotry and wanton violence are mixed.
Today in Syria, a once thriving Christian population—a community nearly as ancient as that country's once great Jewish community—has been depopulated by 25 percent, according an estimate the Patriarch Melkite Greek Catholic Patriarch Gregorios III Laham shared with the BBC.
In September, The Associated Press reported that Syrian Christians in Maaloula—a community dating to the birth of Christianity and that still speaks Aramaic—were driven out or forcibly converted to Islam by rebels aligned with al-Qaeda.
"It is chaos, it is violence, it is blood, it is death. Life has been paralyzed. We have lost everything," said Archbishop Theophile Georges Kassab of Homs.
In Egypt, some supporters of ousted President Mohammed Morsi last summer unleashed their rage against that nation's Christians, a historic community constituting 20 percent of the country's population. Mobs burned dozens of Christian schools, convents, monasteries, institutions, and churches of any, and all Christian denominations. And just days ago, gunmen on a motorcycle opened fire outside a Coptic Christian church during a wedding, murdering four, including an 8-year-old girl.
"It never happened before in history that such a big number of churches were attacked on one day," Bishop Thomas, a Coptic Orthodox bishop in Assiut told Al Jazeera. "We normally used to have attacks once a month or so."
As Kristallnacht teaches, the burning of houses of worship can be a red alert that worse is yet to come. September saw the horrific Taliban bombing of Anglican worshippers in Pakistan, which took 85 lives, and, according to accounts shared by witnesses, the targeting for murder of Kenyan Christians—deliberately separated from others in a chilling reminder of Nazi "selections"—by al Shabaab terrorists in a Nairobi shopping mall.
Attacks like these have contributed to a decline in the Christian population in the Middle East and North Africa from 9.5 percent to 3.8 percent of the total population from 1910 to 2010, according to a Pew Forum report on Global Christianity.
Tellingly, Israel is the only Middle East country where the Christian population has grown in the last half century, from 34,000 to 158,000, in large measure, according to many observers, because of the religious freedoms enjoyed there.
As a Jew, I'm proud of the status of religious minorities in the Jewish state.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on-faith/wp/2013/10/24/anti-christian-terror-is-everyones-concern/

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket noting
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 10:05 AM

That's the problem with religion. Bush was seen as a Christian and so was Blair. Therefore so were all British and all American endeavour.

Perpetuating the idea of being associated by an imaginary friend few have in the first place isn't good.

In fact, to many around the planet, the likes of me would be classed as Christian in the same way as you talk about Muslims coming over here in some of your distasteful comments on various threads you so insist I read.

I like how your stereotyping was cut down to size by the post someone wrote referring to the Christian paedophile Jimmy Saville.

Quite.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 10:28 AM

you talk about Muslims coming over here in some of your distasteful comments

Except I do not.
It only arose here to shoot down Don's false claim of Muslims suffering persecution in UK.

Persecution leads to a fall in numbers, not a rise.
Persecution leads to an exodus, not an influx.

Once again you resort to smear tactics.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 10:40 AM

No Kevin, what I posted directly refutes the claim that there is more persecution of Christians than of Muslims.

But it just didn't Don. It reminded us that there some terrible wars going on, with appalling consequences. That's not in itself about religious persecution, though of course there's no clear line to be drawn between these things. Wars are times when religious and ethnic differences are especially to turn bloody.

I'm still puzzled what this argument is about. There's a lot of persecution around, much of it is religious persecution, much of that is against Christians, much of it is against adherents of other religions, and it is all terrible. Everyone agrees with that (leaving aside the odd joker who says it's all right to persecute some religions, or the people who actually believe that.   And when we talk about one thing it doesn't mean all the other things we could talk about don't matter.
................

Why is it any more distasteful to talk about Muslims coming here than it would be to talk about Catholics coming here from Poland? And very welcome both lots of newcomers are so far as I am concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket shaking his head slowly
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 11:32 AM

Dunno. Ask Keith. He's the one making the distinction.

And on this thread for that matter .

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 12:56 PM

What distinction do you mean? And when?

The distinction between people a country where people from a religious minority come to live and work, and a country where people from a religious minority are forced into exile?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 02:30 PM

Ask Keith. He's the one making the distinction.
Just a smear.
Made up shit.
Why do you need to keep doing it Musket?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Muskets made up shit
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 01:13 PM

Are you ready?


Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Oct 13 - 08:26 AM

You have yet to attach one modicum of blame to the religious bodies who carrird out these abuses

Yes I have, but on relevant threads not this one about religious persecution.

Don, the persecuted Christian communities are dwindling to extinction as they are killed or driven out.
Unlike our thriving Muslim community that expanding rapidly and which welcomes a large inflow from their homelands every day.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 03:34 PM

So Keith pointed out that thereare many Muslims who see this country as a good lace to live. That is self evidently true.

That is true, and it says something very positive about this country.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 05:10 PM

If Don had claimed Poles were being persecuted, I would have made the same statement about them.

The statement was made in refutation of Don's claim, which was that Muslims suffered persecution in Britain that was comparable to Christian persecution elsewhere.

You know all this.
You are just trying to smear me.
Despicable.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 07:21 PM

""That's not in itself about religious persecution, though of course there's no clear line to be drawn between these things.""

OK Kevin, one last try!

Is there anything other than the claims of organisations with a built in Christian bias, to prove that Christians are being persecuted because they are Christian, rather than because they are a minority and different than the majority?

If there is unbiased and factual evidence, has the same criterion been applied to minority sunni and shiite communities. I tend to doubt it.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 08:05 PM

As I have said several times when religious communities, including Christian communities, are persecuted that is indeed liable to be because they are seen as different, not because of theological niceties.

But if they abandon their religion in many, arguably most cases, that difference would cease to exist and they would cease to be persecuted. There have been exceptions to that, as when Jews who had become Christians were still sent to the death camps, but in most cases of such persecution religion is the only identifiable difference involved.

That is one way in which religious persecution differs from the persecution and ill treatment of other kinds. Black people cannot turn white, women cannot change sex. But people can change religions, go to church or go to mosque. And of course, sometimes they do.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 02:18 AM

Don, the evidence you demand is in the many links I have provided.
That is why I provided them.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 02:30 AM

Yes Kevin. He could have said ice cream tastes nice too. But he didn't. He pointed out that Christians flee persecution whilst Muslims are economic migrants, unless he wants to give a different spin on his point?

A grovelling apology from the general area of Harlow would be nice too. Whilst finding his ill conceived post, I noted that he accused me of having no humility. Let's see if the kettle can call the saucepan black.

On your last point, I doubt wholesale persecution was ever based on the characteristics of your particular imaginary friend. It has always been on more economic and political reasoning. Religion has always been the distasteful way of finding justification for the atrocities. After all, better in the name of God than in the name of the people doing well out of it.

The ignorant peasants are more liable to do your dirty work for you too. The poor buggers who actually believe the err...    "made up shit" anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket grovelling
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 03:00 AM

Hertford, not Harlow.

Humble apologies with humility.

Both down south somewhere....

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 04:24 AM

Musket,
It was Don you raised the issue of British Muslims.
Not me.
Deny that?

He claimed that Muslims are persecuted here, comparable to Christian persecution elsewhere.
Deny that?

I just refuted that claim.
That does not make me anti-Muslim as you suggest.

As Kevin said, he might have claimed that our Polish Catholics are persecuted.
My response would be the same.

Persecution does not give rise to a thriving and naturally growing community.
Persecution results in an exodus not an influx.

There is no anti Muslim sentiment in my posts because I am not anti Muslim.
That is just shit made up by you Musket.
Groundless personal attack instead of reasoned debate.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket being patriotic
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 09:58 AM

Of course. We could either read your protestations or we could read something that Keith A of Hertford put and I just reprinted.

So your trick of side tracking people and demanding they deny something they probablybnever asserted in the first place is rather pathetic. Ask Don if he wishes to deny what Don said.

Perhaps in the meantime you may wish to deny or indeed confirm what you meant when you compared dwindling to extinction Christians with Muslims "coming over here, ,welcoming from their homelands. "

Funny. A colleague was hounded out of Iraq a good few years ago and he managed to flee with his family. He was welcomed by fellow Iraqis in the city. He happens to be a Christian. The Sunni Muslim charitable foundation that helped him set up and establish over here didn't see the point in distinction where persecution was involved. Not going into detail as knowledge of me can narrow things down somewhat but don't panic, no need to get Daily M*il links to such antics. He pays more in tax and saves more lives each and every month than your average reader could dream of.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 11:22 AM

As I read it the contrast that Keith was drawing was not between what happens to Muslims and what happens to Christians, but between the situation in a country where a religious minority is coming as immigrants and one where they are fleeing as refugees.

It appears that Musket has read this as a bizarre suggestion that Muslims as Muslims are not subject to religious persecution, but that Christians are. That would be a ridiculous thing to say, and Keith has not said it. In fact he has specifically mentioned at least one current example where a Muslim religious minority is indeed being persecuted, in Burma.

r we could read something that Keith A of Hertford put and I just reprinted. Which Musket implies demonstrated his racist/sectarian credentials. But it didn't do anything of the sort.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,keith A
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 12:12 PM

We could either read your protestations or we could read something that Keith A of Hertford put and I just reprinted.

There is no contradiction.
What I put and you reprinted was just a refutation of Don's assertion that there is a persecution of Muslims here that is comparable to religious persecution elsewhere.

You resorting to using that shows how desperate you have become to find anything against me for your smears.

Why can you not discuss the issues and not me?
Even if I WAS some kind of monster, you should still be able to challenge what I say instead of my motive for saying it.
Why don't you?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 12:26 PM

Shame on you.

I am not saying that at all. I suspect you know that.

Keith spoke of Christian persecution then in the same paragraph spoke of Muslims being welcomed into our country. You may interpret that as one thing but with his track record, I, I suspect accurately, interpret it in a far less positive light.

A debate on the subject of persecution is valid. Pointing out persecution of communities and individuals based on their weekly worship, if they personally bother, is never going to get anywhere. It is, as many have pointed out, including some of the articles he refers to, a statistical fact that those identified as Christians in countries dominated by other faiths will make up a majority of instances of persecution of minorities at any time. I offered a further thought that people who look to the religion of people as a way of judging them will identify Christians with American and European led bombing of Muslim majority land. This plays into the hands of those who seek to use their faith to further more temporal causes.

In fact, for all you just put, you will find if you bother to read, that I acknowledge the seeming widespread persecution of communities identified as Christian. I just don't fall into the trap of calling it Christian persecution thats all.

That would imply such atrocities were because of their faith. Which it isn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 01:22 PM

Being persecuted because of your faith can mean being pesecuted specifically on behalf of your beliefs. That does of course happen. "Kill the blasphemer!"

Equally it can happen because as an adherent of a religion you are identified as one of a suspect minority. As Musket says this can be acerbated because of the actions of people seen as your co-religionists - for example Americans with drones, Muslims or Irish Catholics with bombs.

In both cases it is likely to be the case that if you abandon your religious beliefs and your religious practice, you will no longer be a target of persecution, unless this is seen as not genuine.

That is why calling it religious persecution is perfectly appropriate. That is the third or fourth time I have explained this elementary truth, Musket, but you seem unable to grasp it. I rather suspect this may well continue to be the case.

As for Musket's interpretation of what Keith intended in that comment about the contrast between immigrating and being exiled, and its relation in both cases to the presence of persecution,, I note that Keith has several times explained what he said there, and it coincides with what appears to me to be the obvious meaning.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,keith A
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 04:08 PM

Yes.
Thank you Kevin.


Keith spoke of Christian persecution then in the same paragraph spoke of Muslims being welcomed into our country.

That is because the whole paragraph was in response to, and rebuttal of, Dons claim about Muslims suffering persecution here like Christians elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 06:06 PM

I rather think Kevin, that the Muslim families who have suffered abuse and assault, and also those who have had dogshit and blazing petrol posted through their letterboxes, would feel persecuted

There are large numbers of British Muslims, who have been maltreated in every way mentioned in the stages of that concise definition of "persecution" which was posted in this thread, "up to and including death".

Mosques have been bombed and defaced.

Many of course have not fled the country, being British and having been born here. Others stay because they haven't the means to leave.

That must mean, according to some, that they are not persecuted.

Just as Gazans are not persecuted, since they are still breeding.

Ignoring, of course, the inconvenient fact that, with their infrastructure, economy and freedom of movement destroyed, they have fuck all else to do!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 06:59 PM

Persecution is a strong word. Of course it is horrible when that kind of hostility is shown towards Muslims, or against anybody. but to call it systematic persecution comparable to what happens to some religious minorities in some places and at some times is to distort the situation.

Persecution isn't the only way in which people are treated terribly. The Palestinians driven from their homes in 1948 were persecuted in order to make them flee. Palestinians in exile have suffered from the consequences of that persecution. Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza suffer from oppression, both from Israel and in some cases from fellow Palestinians reacting to that oppression. But that surely is another thread.

People with disabilities are often shamefully treated, neglected and harassed, sometimes to the degree of death. But it would be wrong to use the term persecution in a group sense.

It might indeed be appropriate to use the word persecuted of an individual, just as it can be, for example when talking of an individual bullied at work, but that is a different use of the word from when we are talking about pogroms.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,keith
Date: 10 Nov 13 - 02:17 AM

The person who bombed the mosques was caught.
He had also killed an elderly man walking home from a mosque.
The perpetrator had come to Britain from abroad specifically to attack our non-white people, and began within days of arriving.
An aberration.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 10 Nov 13 - 02:54 AM

I have thought about Kevin's interpretation of my interpretation. ....

I have no reason whatsoever to single out Keith for criticism. I do single out however the broad thrust of his argument. That I pounce on instances of his agenda is neither here nor there. I do not wish to change views, merely to challenge what I see as agenda ridden points masquerading as innocent observation.

Keith and I have agreed on points in this and many threads. It is he who now reckons I am somehow trying to "persecute" him for challenging the emphasis on Christian in the same breathe as persecution.

Yes. The brainwashed peasants carrying out the persecution itself may well see religion as a factor, but from their perspective that may be noble. (Knights and Crusades spring to mind every bit as much as suicide bombers) yet the real perpetrators, those urging the pogroms and carnage. ... They use religion as a means not an end.

As I said. I remain convinced the word different is the key not the word Christian. My attempts to merely state that opinion seem to result in Keith spewing out more and more instances of persecution of those culturally recognisable as Christians. I doubt he is thick as pigshit really so his technique for debate leads to questioning his motives. The opportunity to reread his posts, as I have had to in order to keep him happy just reinforces my opinion of his position.

As many have pointed out. Not just me.

I note the apology was well hidden Keith. Although had you the humility to do so it would have probably been, in your words, made up shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,keith.
Date: 10 Nov 13 - 01:00 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,keith.
Date: 10 Nov 13 - 01:14 PM


I have no reason whatsoever to single out Keith for criticism. I do single out however the broad thrust of his argument.

No Musket, that is how it should have gone.
I say that Christians are bearing the brunt of persecution.
You and others saying yes it is terrible but you are not convinced their suffering is the worst, or that religion is the issue.
Me saying I am convinced but thanks for your contribution.

What I got was the same old accusations first from Jim and then from you.
I must have an agenda.
I must be a bad person.

" That I pounce on instances of his agenda is neither here nor there. I do not wish to change views, merely to challenge what I see as agenda ridden points masquerading as innocent observation."

I have no agenda.
You have produced no "instances."
There is no "masquerading" except in your prejudiced imagination.

Please remind me what I should apologise for.
Do you still claim I spoke of UKIP as we, and when are you going to produce it?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 10 Nov 13 - 01:16 PM

If guest Keith is the usual suspect Keith then sticking to empty posts such as above might be a good idea credibility wise.

However if the mudelves remove it, it might be a good idea to remove this too. ...

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Nov 13 - 01:47 PM

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

Programme Change ~~

For reasons beyond the management's control, the long-running KEITH'N'CARROLL SHOW has, at least for the moment, been replaced by the KEITH'N'MUSKET SHOW.

We appreciate that this is somewhat less satisfactory, alliteration-wise, though the repeated voiceless velar plosive K may be regarded by some of our regular audience as reasonably compensatory.

But we are confident that, on present showing, this too

WILL RUN & RUN!

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,keith
Date: 10 Nov 13 - 02:26 PM

Oh dear.
If Musket and Jim would just discuss the issues and not insist on discussing me all the time, endlessly, this would not happen.

You are entitled to your opinions of me, wrong as they are, but why must you always interrupt debate to pontificate about what a bad person you imagine I am.

My fault is that I can not let false accusations go unchallenged.
They can never substantiate, only repeat, and so it goes endlessly on.

Even if I was a bad person, you could still just challenge what I say.
Perhaps the problem is that you can't challenge what I say.

Making up shit about someone is easy.
Formulating counter arguments is perhaps too hard for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Nov 13 - 03:39 PM

When you've made a mistake the honourable thing is to admit it, correct it, and say sorry if that's involved an unfair accusation, not rationalise it and continue to imply that after all it wasn't a mistake.

It's going round in circles, and has been for a long time. Keep on enjoying your fun, Musket. You clearly aren't interested in any genuine discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket evolving slowly
Date: 10 Nov 13 - 05:20 PM

I'm not interested in genuine discussion? Obviously not then.

After all, question people who use their faith as part of their argument and you may as well give up.

Apparently more men are persecuted than women.   More intellectual people are persecuted than ignorant peasants. More ignorant peasants are religious than intellectual people.






Whoops. ..

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 10 Nov 13 - 05:55 PM

That was a low blow.

I've not seen any member QUOTE' "using" their faith as a part of their argument here, least of all McGrath who you seem to be levelling this cheap sideswipe at.

And even were they to do so, the religious are as entitled to wave their pompous superiourity about as much as the atheists, surely?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 10 Nov 13 - 05:58 PM

Or superiority.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 02:50 AM

people who use their faith as part of their argument

Another bit of M.U.S. from the aptly named MUSket.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 05:39 AM

Well done Keith. Musket includes MUS which for the benefit of those with a life and haven't read your bollocks recently, stands for made up shit.

Guest CS. Kevin hasn't used faith but he seems to defend to the death the right of those who are. It is his partisan defence of a polarised view that is not his usual style, but seems to be thriving on this thread. Sad really, as it must encourages shallow fools to plough on.



Anyway, let's find an anagram for Keith A of Hertford shall we?

Sanctimonious hypocrite.
Member of looney fringe organisation
Starter of inflammatory posts.
Denier of his inflammatory posts.
"As a Christian" quoter.



Oh, did I mention? I'm not very good at anagrams.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 07:13 AM

Guest CS. Kevin hasn't used faith but he seems to defend to the death the right of those who are.

As CS said, no-one has used their faith as an argument here.
M.U.S.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket smiling
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 07:43 AM

I love how you are beginning to sign off with MUS.

Your new signature is refreshingly honest.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 07:52 AM

I asked for that.
Good one Musket.

Now, why don't you produce an example of someone using their faith as an argument, or do you admit it is MUS?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket the detective
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 08:44 AM

Bloody hell Keith. It took me all of five minutes of scanning your contributions to just this thread just for last month. I saw, and speed reading may have missed some too, seven instances where you said you were a Christian. What is the relevance of that?

I have never once on this thread mentioned I am an ex member of The Bolsover Beer Drinking and Picked Egg Munching Thursday Night Club. (No constitution, but we did for a while exist in principle.)

If the thread is what you said it was to be, the two claims would be as relevant as each other, as nobody, yourself included, has singled out Christians as a persecuted minority here in The UK. Only retired Archbishops are ga ga enough to make that claim.



But I could be wrong.....

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Nov 13 - 08:49 AM

Give us some examples then Musket.