BS: Christian Persecution

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jan 14 - 06:36 PM

Yeppers.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 01:19 AM

If there is anger over people persecuting in the name of their version of a god, I suppose it is only right that there should be suspicion at least towards those for whom distinguishing between different religions is important.

Leaders of Christian groups and scholars of Q'ran rush out to remind us all that their faith is based on love and charity. Yet both cults have a need to convert people of other cults to theirs.

To those who only see their missionary status as something to do with sex, the indignation by some contributors here would be funny if the subject weren't so awful.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 04:29 AM

Christian communities are dwindling to extinction in the face of relentless persecution and murder.

Laugh it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 04:40 AM

That's a thought.

Our village of 3000 people gets a "good turnout" in church of 30 on Christmas Day. That includes my missus who is as religious as me and her Uncle who lives down south.

I've seen the old photos of how the village used to be centred around the church activities.

We seem to be an excellent example of a Christian community dwindling to extinction. Not so much murder as enlightenment.

Choose your words better, prat.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 04:49 AM

Are the Christians in your village being murdered, tortured, forced to convert, burned out of their homes and churches?
If not, it is not an example of persecution.
Just a smoke screen to obscure the horrific fact of real persecution.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 05:14 AM

You really are being peculiarly heartless & lacking in empathy, Musket. People are receiving widespread irrational maltreatment for reasons of ethnicity, historically based on their ancestors' beliefs, which render them an easily identifiable alien minority in the places they happen to have been born. You seem to think this a bit of a giggle, comparable, by some odd mnemonic cerebrations of your own, to a lack of enthusiasm for seasonal celebrations in your parish, and similarly caused.

You really are behaving shamefully, you know; and ought to snap out of it if you intend, on your better recollections, to retain any self-respect.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: bobad
Date: 02 Jan 14 - 08:15 AM

He has to be trolling as entertainment for himself and the other ostriches as no one can surely be that obtuse.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Jan 14 - 02:53 PM

Just thought I'd put this up to see if persecution by Christians had been elevated to 'Christian Persecution' status yet or is it still on the 'Index' as being a taboo subject.
It appeared in the Irish Times on the same day as did Ex Irish President Mary McAlees's wonderful summing of of the clergy's reputation as sexual predators as being "not so much the elephant in the room, but the herd of elephants in the room.
Don't really expect a response from outraged Christians from Tunbridge Wells posting here.
When will they ever learn - as the man said!!
Jim Carroll

EX-SWISS GUARD MAKES SEXUAL ADVANCES CLAIM
For almost 500 years, young men from all over Switzerland have made the trek to Rome to guard the pope as Swiss guards.
Now a former member of the elite division has revealed that, besides protecting the pontiff, he spent his two years in the Vatican rebuffing unwanted sexual advances from priests, bishops and even a high-ranking cardinal.
The unnamed guard told a Swiss newspaper that he was the subject of 20 "unambiguous sexual requests".
"One night, after midnight, I received a call on my mobile phone," said the former guard in the interview. "The person on the other end said he was a cardinal and he asked me to come to his room."
On another occasion the guard, who said he served during the papacy of Pope John Paul II, found a bottle of whiskey outside his door alongside the calling card of an influential bishop.
He recalled a dinner with a priest in a Rome restaurant that took an unexpected turn.
"As the spinach and steak were served, the priest said to me: 'And you are the dessert'," recalled the ex-guard, saying he stood up and left without touching his food. When the guard complained about the incident to his superior in the guard, he said he was told that, as he spoke no Italian, he had clearly misunderstood the priest's intentions.
Rumours
When the time came for him to leave the Vatican, and the ex-guard intended to apply for a job in the Vatican, he was told to meet an unnamed bishop but to "have a shower before¬hand".
Mr Urs Breitenmoser, a guard spokesman, told the Swiss newspaper that the rumours were of no interest and that guards occupied them¬selves with "very different matters" during their two-year service.
The Swiss Guard were found¬ed in 1506 by Pope Julius II. Members must be unmarried Swiss men between the ages of 19 and 30 and of "good moral ethical background".

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jan 14 - 03:44 PM

Jim: I can't see where anyone is denying that there has been, and continues to be, much iniquitous behaviour by people of the Christian faith, many often professionally connected with it as priesthood &c. But it is still a bit of unacceptable 'wotaboutery' to suggest, as you appear to do, that because some priests have persecuted [in a much more minor sense than the true persecution ref'd in the title & main topic of this thread], with uncongenial sexual advances or other forms of advantage-taking, hangers-on & acolytes of inferior status to theirs such as altar boys & Swiss Guards, well then, never mind what is happening to the Church in Saudi or Yemen or Malaysia or Egypt or wherever. A Swiss Guard says that some bishops & cardinals made passes on him: so if they are killing Xtns just for being Xtns in Egypt, well that's all right then.

I know you will say you are not defending the latter by citing the former; in which case, what exactly is your point, then? You, or one on your side of the matter if it wasn't you personally, rather oddly suggested to Keith that, if he objected to this peculiar 'wotabout' drift, he could OP a new thread: which was a bit rich as he had OP'd this one anyhow & it was you lot that had hijacked it. So, if you want to go on about bishops buggering choirboys -- which isn't what this thread is about, for all your saying -- why don't YOU start one to moan on about it then?

Oh, what's the use? I know your mind's made up and you're not listening...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 10 Jan 14 - 04:02 PM

Strange Michael?

I thought I was being consistent on saying that differentiating between persecution on the grounds of choice of delusion was disrespectful and distasteful.

Interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jan 14 - 04:18 PM

Can't see where you are coming from there, Ian. What has that to do with any of the points I made in my post that preceded? But your somewhat gnomic manner of expression quite often leaves me fumbling. I suppose you know what you mean; but whether this is a general effect among readers of your strange utterances I beg leave to doubt.

Regards

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jan 14 - 04:38 PM

"Just stick to plucking your lute & singing under the castle walls, why don't you?"

I recall a time when you were less arrogant and much more likeable, even to the point of sounding quite intelligent and erudite.

Your choice of bigots to support seems to have had a bad influence on your manners.

It matters not how long ago persecution and murders stopped happening. Memories of that nature form the basis of the kind of hatred you and Keith exalt in Christians and decry in all other religions.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Jan 14 - 05:20 AM

"I know you will say you are not defending the latter by citing the former; in which case, what exactly is your point, then?"
My point is, and always has been, that all religions by their very nature carry the risk of persecution, and to refuse to recognise that fact is to allow that risk to continue.
To trivialise this case, in the context of the thousands of rapes of children by members of the Catholic, really doesn't give your case much credibility.
Your mentor has done his level best to censor this discussion to hide the fact that Christians are just as likely to persecute as any other religion is, you, true to form, agree with him.
You must give us your sliding scale of when an offence becomes a crime and then becomes an abuse of human rights sometim.
It seems to be a guiding light in your thinking on a number of subjects.
I would have thought that, despite decades of revelations of clerical abuse, Christina clergy, including those in the upper echelons, are still proving themselves sexual predators a point well worth making.
The op, in his attempts at censorship and his open support for persecution BY Christians, has made it quite clear that this thread has never been concerned with religious persecution, but rather, part of his Islamophobic campaign
That he has a loyal supporter in that campaign in your willingness to be part of that campaign - a loyal Bunter to his Lord Peter Wimsey, may be quaintly touching - but it brings you down to his sewer level.
I trust you have no objections to that fact
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jan 14 - 05:36 AM

We could discuss that on another thread, and you would find I share your views.
This is the only thread about the kind of persecution that drives ancient communities into extinction by murder, torture, imprisonment, rape, forced conversion and the destruction of homes and places of worship.
Are you aware of any Xtians doing that?

There have been many threads about misbehaviour by people linked to churches.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jan 14 - 05:47 AM

(Reuters) - Reported cases of Christians killed for their faith around the world doubled in 2013 from the year before, with Syria accounting for more than the whole global total in 2012, according to an annual survey.

Open Doors, a non-denominational group supporting persecuted Christians worldwide, said on Wednesday it had documented 2,123 "martyr" killings, compared with 1,201 in 2012. There were 1,213 such deaths in Syria alone last year, it said.

"This is a very minimal count based on what has been reported in the media and we can confirm," said Frans Veerman, head of research for Open Doors. Estimates by other Christian groups put the annual figure as high as 8,000.

The Open Doors report placed North Korea at the top of its list of 50 most dangerous countries for Christians, a position it has held since the annual survey began 12 years ago. Somalia, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan were the next four in line.

The United States-based group reported increasing violence against Christians in Africa and said radical Muslims were the main source of persecution in 36 countries on its list.

"Islamist extremism is the worst persecutor of the worldwide church," it said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/09/christian-persecution_n_4568286.html

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Jan 14 - 05:52 AM

Only because you choose to make it part of your Islamophobic campaign Keith
To the world it is about religious persecution everywhere
Compartmentalising persecution into Christian, Muslim, Jew - whatever, adds to that persecution and spread unrest between religions.
The persecution of Christians in no different in any way to your and your kind's persecution of Muslims - both ruin lives and kill people
Your continuing attempts censorship and your open support of persecution by Christians by denying its existence and blaming the victim by saying "they could go and live somewhere else" become a form of persecution in itself
Piss of and stop trying to stifle discussion.
Take your holy war somewhere else, I'm sure your loyal batman will remain at your side through thick and thin.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jan 14 - 06:19 AM

I welcome discussion of any persecution, regardless of the victim or perpetrator, but this thread is about the kind of persecution that drives ancient communities into extinction by murder, torture, imprisonment, rape, forced conversion and the destruction of homes and places of worship.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Jan 14 - 06:30 AM

I have some 'objections', I suppose, Jim, to your constant tedious assessments of K as my 'mentor & me as his 'poodle', 'valet', &c. How you extrapolate such from the fact that IMO he is generally right in his opinions [not always by any means, but exceptions I express are never going to penetrate your thick ☠ & resolutely closed mind]; and you're not.

Still, if it gives you any comfort or consolation or entertainment so to regard our [non-]relationship, be my guest. Does me not the least harm & seems to please your trivial occasions, such as they are. {Yes, I know -- please don't bother to denounce me again for being 'educated'; we've been there.} Far be it from me to endeavour to deprive you of your simple pleasures.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Jan 14 - 06:45 AM

Piss of [sic] and stop trying to stifle discussion.
,..,.,

That was J Carroll, if you would believe. Well Hohohohoho! I daresay he's one of the boobies who think that the old adage about the pot & the kettle is racist, becoz they're obsessive doctrinaire fools to whom the word 'black' can only have one possible connotation; but he would do well to consider its implications nonetheless.

I was going to advise him maybe to start yet another thread about the iniquities of the Catholic clergy if he's so exclusively concerned with the topic. But on second thoughts it would be a pity if he left this one, where his perpetual point-missing making·an·even·bigger·fool·of·himself·every·time·he·posts provides so much innocent entertainment.

So Carry On, Carroll! We'll be sure to miss you when you're gone.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Jan 14 - 06:54 AM

While there have been several threads about persecution of Muslim, Jews and other religions by Christians, to my recollection they have never taken place in the context of the tendencies of all religions to persecute - the basic cause of all religious persecution.
This thread is whatever any contributor cares to make it regarding religious persecution, either of or by Christians, no matter whatever your obvious motives were for starting it.SO DAMN WELL STOP ATTEMPTING TO PREVENT ANYBODY WHO WISHES TO DISCUSS THIS , IN ANY WAY WE CHOOSE AND ANYWHERE WE CHOOSE - A BASIC RIGHT OF ALL FORUM MEMBERS
It really is time that the site administrators took a hand in your constant attempts to manipulate and censor threads - come on lads and ladies, tell this feller he doesn't own this forum or the threads on it   
There never is a forum fairy around when you want one!
"and you would find I share your views."
Very comforting, I'm sure, except for the fact that nowadays on this forum your support for anything is regarded as a leper's bell, not a confirmation that what we say makes any sense.
You really should come with a health warning
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Jan 14 - 07:02 AM

Am I the only one who thinks that

BLOODY GREAT BIG ENORMOUS CAPITAL LETTERS

are at least half way to an admission of self-doubt if not of absolute defeat?!

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Jan 14 - 07:17 AM

If you have something to day, direct the points made and stop attempting to undermining our chosen method of expressing it.
Am I the only one fed up to the back teeth with ultra-pratt extremists like you an your mate interfering with the what we have to say and how we choose to say it on this forum - go and fin#d a beirgarten and hold your own little rally, you pair of goose-steppers
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Jan 14 - 08:12 AM

☠~Achtung, Herr Carroll. Wir haben vays of making you shut-der-hell-up!~☠

[If only...!]

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Jan 14 - 08:13 AM

If either of you wish to challenge anything I have to say with anything resembling reasoned argument, bring it on, I'll happily slow down long enough for you to decide between yourselves whose turn it is to use the brain cell.
Both both of you seem to have settled on smear, censorship and unsustainable claims of "defeat" and "victory" as a substitute for honest and intelligent discussion - please don't - it lowers the tone of the neighbourhood.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Jan 14 - 09:24 AM

OK, seriously then, Jim. I appreciate the force of much of what you have to say, even if I don't agree with all of it. But I genuinely don't feel it appropriately placed on this thread, whose purpose is manifestly to draw attention to the plight of certain communities who are in need of help and succour, not one about the comparative iniquities of various religious groups, to be set up against one another in a sort of league table of abuses, in an attempt to denigrate all religions. We all know what you think on that head. You know that I am largely in agreement with you, in this respect at least. But it not an attempt at censorship or any sort of bullying or obstruction to point out that this is not the place to make these points, intrinsically valid & valuable as they may be. There are many other threads more fitting for such a purpose, where they will not dilute the urgent message intended to be conveyed in this one.

Can you really not see that? Forget the point-scoring and attend to the plight of those currently, right-now, at-this-very-moment, oppressed and endangered communities.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 11 Jan 14 - 10:04 AM

Which side of the bed did you get out of today Michael? Jim loves to roll up his sleeves for a scrap, but methinks you've been at the Bravery brand cooking sherry today?

Lots of Christian persecution going on in CAR at he moment for those keeping the tragic score. They are intent on killing as many Muslims as they can find a la the BBC telly news last night.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: bobad
Date: 11 Jan 14 - 10:12 AM

And....the second anal polyp sprouts.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jan 14 - 10:31 AM

Remember, we have seen massacres of Xtians in CAR very recently.
Nothing here to support your claim muppet.
BBC 2 days ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-25657816
BBC 19 hours ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13150040

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Jan 14 - 10:57 AM

"But I genuinely don't feel it appropriately placed on this thread,"
Your opinion Mike - not mine.
Discussing any religious persecution without including the right to put it into context by discussing why religious persecution takes place is an exercise in futility - like having sex while wearing a condom - self indulgent but, in the long run, sterile.
Suppressing such discussion is censorship and in the hands of toe-rags like Keith, become weapons of sectarian hatred and bigotry
He uses such tactics regularly whenever his limited intelligence leads him into a dead end.
He has been warned persistently that his use of "thread drift" is bullying and undemocratic and has been asked to stop it - he persistes on doing it - see his efforts on the WW1 thread.
It wouldn't matter with most people who take part in these discussions, but his insistence on taking proprietorship of every single thread he takes part in, dominating in and insisting on having the last word (on every single one) nauses up open discussion for everybody else.
I know why he does if - he is a thicko Ialamophobe on a mission,
I quite frankly can't work out where you stand in this - you're certainly not thick and, while we've had our differences, I don't believe you to be the all-out bigot he obviously is.
"Currently" this planet is on the verge of a holy war caused by a handful of bigots and zealots like Keith who utilise and manipulate the power that religion - all religion - wields over the many millions of harmless believers who pose no risk to anybody.
Using the behavior of the few zealots to brand all Muslims, as Keith and his ilk do, only adds to the rift.
Keith's support by denial of crimes committed by Christians - no matter how unimportant you or anybody views them, only allows him and his fellow nutters to throw petrol on an explosive situation
Not a world I would like to bequeath to anybody belonging to me.
If we can't discuss all aspects of a subject like this, these subjects become little more than a wailing wall.
Keith regularly uses thread drift - fine to express an opinion, but he openly attempts do stifle debate - in spite of taking any discussion wherever it suits him himself - as he once said when his behaviour was pointed out pointed our "thread drift happens" - only in the case of his objections, it is never really thread-drift, just a convenient way for him to dig himself out of a hole - as here.      
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Jan 14 - 11:25 AM

I've drunk no alcohol whatever for 12 years now, Ian. Just suddenly realised that I have never actually liked it much. Not TT* ~~ would, no doubt, politely take a sip of the champers for the toasts if found self at a wedding. Just don't like it. In the days I did drink, I should not, rest assured, have indulged in cooking sherry of any brand.

~M~

*Tho must add that I do get more & more distressed by contemplation of just how much crime & misbehaviour & destructiveness & general no-no-ness is alcohol-based. It's no use everyone trying to deny it or rationalise it away, or obviate it with po-faced injunctions to 'drink responsibly' & all that old bum. Such is unarguably the unfortunate case, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 01:14 AM

Re your last post, Jim. We obviously differ in our assessments both of Keith's intellect and his motivations. I know there is that one quote of his ("I now believe...") you always cite out of context. I can [& sometimes do] just as easily quote back at you your peculiarly inapposite "educated" denunciation of me, &/or your invention of my having accused them of 'stealing our jobs' when I had done no such thing & your attempt to claim it as simply a rhetorical extrapolation of what I really must think or some such dishonest evasiveness. You have accused me of bigotry many times, as it happens: especially when I posted some assessments of my view of Islam as a faith [which led to that oddly quaint denunciation of Richard's that I was criticising one religion more than another which still gives me a good old chuckle when I think of it!] and why it was injudicious for any country to allow its adherents, even the non-extreme sort, to become a significant minority demographic within their population ~~ see the "Unnamed soldier" thread, 10 & 12 June 13.

All of which leaves me still thinking [of course it's my opinion, not yours: it would be, wouldn't it?] that this is not the thread on which to air your views on choirboy-shagging priests &c.

Still, there you go...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 01:22 AM

Sorry - typo. Should of course read '"Unarmed soldier" thread'.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 02:24 AM

Stunning. You turn the 10.00pm news on, on Friday night and see a reporter talking to "Christian" militia, or older children as we might call them, armed with machetes, saying that now the CAR government has fallen , it's time to go and kill a few Muslims. To he fair it's retaliation rather than source oppression but, and here's the rub

Keith says I didn't watch it. These days, only a million or so watch the 10.00 BBC news so only a million liars eh?

You pathetic twat. Your imaginary friend might be able to tell you black is white, but that doesn't mean you can convince rational people of lies in support of a particular cult against other cults. Or no cult even.



Nothing wrong with cooking sherry Michael. I swear I was drinking it in a posh restaurant the other week when I asked for a decent Amontillado. In fact last night, when starting to pull me a pint of Landlord, the gaffer confirmed my choice with "Pint o' cookin'?"

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 02:46 AM

Hate appear ignorant ~~ but who or what CAR. No enlightenment from googling.

Suppose it must have been mere snobbery, Ian; but in the days I did drink sherry, it would be Tio Pepe* as aperitif or Harvey's Bristol or Taylor's Cream if ever I wanted a dessert wine: tho there IIRC I would generally prefer a ruby port or sweet Tokay: or more likely a liqueur, probably Cointreau or Tia Maria.

~M~

*In word games like Nebuchadnezzar, 20 ??s, &c, Tio Pepe often a good one to choose, giving letter P. In answer to inevitable 'fact or fiction?', I would reply 'Not sure'; and when challenged about this when they had given up, would say "Well, how the hell should I know whether Señor Gonzales or Señor Byass really had an Uncle Pete or not?"

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 03:52 AM

"Keith's intellect and his motivations. "
Keith's "intellect" does not extend beyond what he can cut-'n-paste from the net and it is summed up pretty neatly, along with his motivations by his description of all male Pakistanis as being culturally implanted to have sex with under-age girls - simple really.
Could go further and point out his inability to accept the consequences of his behaviour on other, mainly totally innocent people and his cowardice in refusing to stand by his arguments as being his own by inventing a team of "experts" to back up his claims, who have never said anything resembling what he expounds - a sort of 'invisible army' to help him in his crusade.
He is one sad and extremely unpleasant man.
My "educated" comment on you was said in a moment of anger and was never repeated (I think none of us can claim to have made such a remark and regretted it) and it involves nobody but you and me - the messages of hate I am referring to encompass entire communities in Britain and fuel a religious (and actual) war elsewhere
They are part of a mindset which makes their lives miserable and dangerous.
I honestly can't remember my "stealing our jobs" accusation - if I accused you of making such a remark unjustly, I apologise unreservedly and hope I said it in anger.
I am prone to lose my rag over issues that concern me, but I usually make a point of apologising when it is pointed out.
Keith has described apologising as "snivelling" and has never, in my recollection withdrawn and apologised for anything - not bad for someone who has espoused the causes he has over the years.
I'm afraid I regard your support for Keith the way I do for your support for Fascist Thatcher - ill-judged, to say the least.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 04:15 AM

Thank you, Jim: I think that the first time you have expressed regret for the 'educated' gibe, & I appreciate it. Also for your apology re the 'jobs' thing, which, purely for info & in no hostile spirit, was also on 'Unarmed Soldier':

10 Jun 13 - 02:34 AM
You leave little room to "misinterpret" anything - your statement would not be out of place on any gutter racist website; it is stated in the same terms and it says the same things - "coming over here to take our jobs and threaten our way our life"

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 04:54 AM

Musket, I am fully aware that Christian militias have now joined Muslim militias and that sectarian violence is rife in CAR, but you said,"Lots of Christian persecution going on in CAR at he moment."

That statement is not supported by BBC.
Please do not profess outrage at your word being doubted.
You actually made up an incident in Nigeria of Christians chopping up school kids and feeding them to pigs.
You also made up a quote and attributed it to "The" council of Mosques, which does not exist.
And that is just your lies on this thread!

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 05:02 AM

Again - apologies Mike, though I would point out that it was a summing up of the websites I was referring to, not an actual accusation of your having said it.
Nevertheless, an unfair and unjustified statement on my part - sorry must learn to get a grip.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 05:06 AM

Jim, I remind you that I stated at the time that I had no knowledge of that culture and could not form such an opinion about it.
I was stating that I believed those eminent Pakistani people who did say it came from the culture.
"I do now believe.."
Why wouldn't I?
Why don't you?

You told the same old lie many, many times and I have given you the truth many, many times.
It is a measure of how desperate you are to discredit me, and that you can not find one real issue to do it with.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 06:10 AM

Mind fairies Keith - they never said it and they would have been prosecuted for doing so publicly - Home Secretaries don't say those sort of things and remain in their jobs
It was a statement designed to promote cultural hatred and you made it.
You have never at any time produced anything resembling such statement.
But thank you for underlining the point I have been making here
Maybe on day you'll come to terms with the fact that all religions persecution has its roots in religion itself and to attempt to suppress discussion on that fact only allows such persecution to continue.
Isn't it time you called a truce in your Holy War?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 06:43 AM

Would someone kindly show Keith A Hole of Hertford how to install a web browser that works?

He scours the one he got free with Weetabix all the time to make sure people aren't lying, and when he can't find anything to back up your opinion, he decides you are a liar.

Sometimes, just sometimes it gets tedious.

Not this time though! It just gives me an opportunity to use provocation as the excuse to call him a rabid right wing fascist lump of runny poo, and the type of pork that can't be educated.

Ahh.. That's better. Thanks Keith, I needed that.




Weird bugger.




And yes, I am aware that runny poo doesn't come in lumps. I have a copy of The Bristol Stool Chart on my phone. My reasons, my affair.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 07:06 AM

"Weird bugger" signs old Muskibums. Don't adam&eve me? just look back to its position on his last post...

Know thyself, as old Socrates of FC Fiorentina said every time he scored a hat-trick. Adding, invariably, ΛΩΛ ...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 07:19 AM

Jim, I remind you that I stated at the time that I had no knowledge of that culture and could not form such an opinion about it.
I was stating that I believed those eminent Pakistani people who did say it came from the culture.
"I do now believe.....But only because" those eminent people said it was the culture
Why wouldn't I believe them?
Why don't you?

Musket, if you were not lying, use your superior web browser to find any reference to those chopped up school kids or that non-existent website.
You can not do that because it is all lies.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 07:26 AM

Re CAR, Reuters yesterday.
" Djotodia, who was swept to power by mainly Muslim rebels, known as Seleka, last March.

Abuses by Seleka forces had led to the creation of Christian self-defence militia and killings that evoked memories of Rwanda's genocide 20 years ago."
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/01/11/uk-centralafrican-idUKBREA090O220140111

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 07:28 AM

Hiding behind ignorance again Keith then going on to blame somebody else for something they didn't say
You seem to be inflicted with an obsession to self-harm, which would be entirely your own business if it didn't infest the lives of so many other people, and didn't continue to fuck up this forum.
But thank you once again for making my point for me - I really do appreciate your support on this matter
"Lies, lies I tell you, all lies - yahhhhhhh......................."
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 08:00 AM

Just being honest about being ignorant of that culture.
There were eminent Pakistani people and others saying that about the culture.
Why would I not believe them?

McGrath of Harlow said this last time you raked up this years old issue on this thread.

24 Oct 13 - 10:54 PM
"Nothing in the quotes from Keith you give, Jim, amount to advocating or defending persecution of Muslims, which is what you accused him.

It seems pretty self evident that how we act is to some extent culturally conditioned. That does not mean it is the only factor, or necessarily the most important factor, and it applies to highly desirable ways of behaving as well as to undesirable ways.

So when Alibhai-Brown refers to "some Asian cultural assumptions that make the paedophiles feel no guilt or shame about what they do" she is making a reasonable comment about the relation between Pakistani culture and some tragic events."
"...Keith, who in reality goes no further than Alibhai-Brown."

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 08:46 AM

"Why would I not believe them?"
Oh dear - hear we go again - but not with me
You want to convince us - show us exactly what you claim them to have said
Not from McGrath - nor from the BNP or Muslim Watch or anybody else whose views you echo
Simple as that
Give us a clue
Otherwise - have a good day
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 08:54 AM

Have you thought of looking in the pubs where your 'Military Historians' go - they may drink there?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 09:47 AM

"20 Oct 13 - 03:48 PM

Jim, Alibhai-Brown, Lord Ahmed, and Mohamed Shafiq were the ones I quoted at length (apart from Anne Cryer, Jack Straw and the Pakistani Ch4 journalist).
Deny that?
They all said the offending came from aspects of the culture.
Deny that?

For actual quotes, I put some up for you in a string of posts on this thread starting 24th October 2013 4.44AM

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Jan 14 - 10:36 AM

"Why would I not believe them?"

I should think it would be obvious to all and sundry at this point that Keith will believe any nonsense that comes along, however unsubstantiated or preposterous it might be.

Suggest Y'all stop trying to teach the pig to sing.