BS: Christian Persecution

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 03:00 AM

The Raj did not punish people for not being Christian, and the army formed units of various faiths, Hindu, Sikh and Muslim.

The gun muzzle executions were for those sentenced to death who feared no other kind of execution.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 03:02 AM

Those shot from cannons during & after the Indian Mutiny had done rather more than just deny the truth of Christianity, Ian. Have you ever read the actual details of Nana Sahib's treacherous deceits, and what the relieving troops actually found in the well at Cawnpore, for instance?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket again
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 06:25 AM

Funnily enough, I have read quite a lot on the subject. It fascinated me ever since my first visit to India and how British with a capital E for Empire certain aspects remain, culturally speaking.

I have seen, touched even, a cannon that was used for a group of village elders who questioned the building of a church, which needed the demolition of a temple.

That is why I used the example, and the ins and outs of that example in the two posts above detract from my general point.

Which of course, is the intention, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 06:50 AM

There is a breathtaking amount of hypocrisy in this and other threads on religion
Ant religious body will resort to extreme and vicious behaviour if it feels the necessity and is in the position to do so - ask anybody who lives in a Catholic country.
Yet another row has recently broken out over a child (this time an 11 year old) being refused a termination of pregnancy on religious grounds.
Ireland is still in the throes of a sometimes vicious debate as to whether an abortion is permissible if the life of the mother is threatened and/or the birth is even viable.
The church's record on child abuse speaks for itself, and not just the Catholic Church.
Recently a leading politician in the north has become embroiled in a row over a colleague who attended the funeral of somebody who 'kicked with the wrong foot'.
Seven states in the U.S. prohibit anybody denying the existence of God from holding public office.....
The list is endless.
I have little doubt that these undisputed facts will be defended by cries of "they did it first" or "they all do it" or "they do it more than we do".... and other such facile irrelevancies, but the fact remains, until religion becomes a private choice by consenting individuals, persecution, abuse of power and privilege.... and everything that goes with 'established and State religion' will remain a grim fact of life, whatever the particular brand-name of the product.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 07:30 AM

Denial of abortion & disqualification from public office on faith grounds. Lamentable indeed —

But scarcely in the same category as making apostasy a capital offence, and acting on it as such; which was the instant topic I raised a few posts back. Are there any Christian states in which such a law applies? NOW?; today? - not even in 1858 ~~ assuming the truth of Musket's tale of the village elders blown to pieces at the cannon's mouth for objecting to destruction of their temple to build a church. What its source, please, Ian?

"Remember Cawnpore Well!", cried the troops marching to the relief of Lucknow.

Good advice still.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 08:22 AM

"But scarcely in the same category as making apostasy a capital offence, a"
It's to be "He hit me harder than I hit him" then, is it?
The history of religion is one of bloodshed and persecution and those on top continue to be in the driving seat.
Tell those who died in Northern Ireland through religious inspired conflict, or former Yugoslavia, or anywhere that religious bigotry is given free reign, their deaths don't don't count Mike - surprised at you.
As somebody pointed out earlier on this thread, much of the wailing and gnashing of teeth from certain individuals, particularly the OP, rigs more than a little hollow when placed next to their own Islamopobic brand of persecution.
Churches persecute when they are in a position to do so - whining when your particular brand is on the receiving end..... well, that's life, isn't it.
'All cats look black in the dark' as the man said.
Can't help but notice that yet another "my God's better than yours" thread has just sprung up to inspire ius all; this time of year always was good for fungi.`
Jim Carroll
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 08:49 AM

Kanpur, which is possibly I suppose Cawnpore? The museum I was dragged around, the name of which escapes me, and the actual village which was nearby. I spent a bit of time working around Uttar Pradesh. That particular claim moved me enough to remember what I just put. Which is interesting in itself as I normally am useless at remembering where things were, and in recent years since meeting Mrs Musket who is a walking Encyclopaedia, knowledge of where we go and what we do is better. I fly out to Thailand on Monday for a holiday, but be buggered if I recall the name of the island we are spending the second week on. All I know is we fly from Bangkok to it next Saturday.

I am not aware of any Christian States where apostasy is a capital offence. But there again there are not many Christian States, and very few Islamic ones for that matter.

I am sure there are many places, especially in Dumbfuckistan, where not following Christian lifestyle would be an offence if they got their own way. Already, not just Dumbfuckistan, but the rest of The USA, it is difficult to get far in public office without claiming Jesus put you there.....   Some would like that here in The UK and point to bishops being in The lords as meaning we are a Christian state, which we are not. Our monarch is the leader of one particular cult but there again, she is the patron of those who make Pedigree Chum dog food.

I repeat. Yes, Christians are being persecuted, so are other religions. Pointing out the persecution of one cult rather than say persecution of religions, with Christianity bearing the brunt, is dangerous, divisive and smells of an agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 09:01 AM

So, Jim & Ian, the answer to my question is a "no".

Thank you.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 09:26 AM

"Cult" is best reserved for it's traditional meaning, which is a way of referring to a particular devotion or practice within a religion, for example the cult of a specific saint within Catholicism or Sufi Islam.

When used as a way of referring to a religion it is generally understood as intended to insult. Generally that seems to be the intention. Not to exaggerate, but it's an expression of the same mindset that gives rise to persecution.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 10:03 AM

"Everyone is ignoring the growing danger to Christians in Muslim-majority countries. The European countries don't give a damn about us."

Hmm. What was I hearing about a YouGov poll last week in which only one in five Brits would "feel comfortable having a Muslim neighbour"? Bet that makes the millions of British Muslims feel safe...

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 10:40 AM

Cult is not an insult. Religion is a group term and although they are all the same to me personally, I give them the respect of observing there are different sects within the term religion that see themselves as unique, hence cult is an accurate term of reference.

I repeat yet again. Whilst the Christianity "section? will that do? "of religion does seem to be getting violent oppression and stigmatising acts committed against them in some areas, so are other "sections" of religion. Who would be Shia in Iraq or Sunni in Iran? The Bosnian Muslims who suffered ethnic cleansing by the Christian Serbs, etc etc. Who prayed for them?

Pointing out the issues of one particular section of religion based communities leads to awful division. You know, the worst thing about those who discriminate is those who make excuses for them.

If it weren't for the much publicised effort by UK Christian organisations to push the persecution button because the law doesn't let them discriminate against Gays now, and if they don't get their act together and allow top jobs to be sought on merit, women soon, I could take this thread at face value but whilst religious equality isn't good enough for some, these threads just feed the need for privilege and that will never return.

Thank Clapton.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 10:49 AM

Oh dear.
There are issues in Ireland about abortion.
Thank you for letting us know Jim, but do you ever read thread titles.

I do not understand the hostility and absence of sympathy for a persecuted group just because that group are Christians.

My referring to the fact that Christians seem to be suffering more than their share does not mean I approve of any other, past or present.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 10:58 AM

The Bosnian Muslims who suffered ethnic cleansing by the Christian Serbs, etc etc. Who prayed for them?

UK and other NATO members went in to save them, remember.
It was awhile ago now to remember exactly, but I am sure we would have prayed for them at my church, and all the other churches in the land where the sufferings of fellow humans are always remembered.
Just as the Syrian people have been in our prayers in recent years.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 11:09 AM

"So, Jim & Ian, the answer to my question is a "no"."
No Mike - may answer id "a plague on all their houses"
"Thank you for letting us know Jim, but do you ever read thread titles."
The thread title is "Christian persecution" which apparently doesn't cover "persecution by Christians" - didn't think for a moment it would.
Good to see the old "thread drift" standby is on hand should I ever need it though!
A bit disgusting to reduce the centuries of religious persecution in Ireland that has filled more graves than any of us care to think about during my lifetime alone as "abortion issues" and passed off as "oh dear", but it's what we've come to expect from god-fearing people like yourself.
Say one for me, will you?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 11:36 AM

I think persecution by Christians would be a valid issue Jim.
Let's here of some.
Ireland is run by secular politicians.
Who is being persecuted for their faith in and by whom Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 12:51 PM

Let there be light!

And lo. The agenda was displayed for all to see.

My work is done.

Tatty bye.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 12:53 PM

Ireland has been dominated by religious-inspired Christian in-fighting for many centuries.
Up comparatively recently the politicians from the Republic took their orders from the church - it took the clerical rape of thousands of children to bring that to an end .
The Six Counties were declared a "Protestant State" at Independence yet the blood still flows on a regular basis there.
There is a hangover from these facts which periodically erupt into open violence and claim yet more lives - and that will continue to be the case for the foreseeable future.
I was relieved to receive your PM telling me you were praying for me; I've been told the same by the Jehovah's Witnesses who used to plague my Sunday afternoons.
I'm sure those who were burned at the stake for their non or unwise beliefs were given the same assurances.
With "God (and Keith) on my side" what more could one wish for?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 01:05 PM

Historically "Christians"[sic] seem to have the most fun persecuting other "Christians"[sic], which is still pretty much the case today.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 01:55 PM

Is anyone being persecuted for their faith in Ireland Jim.
If not, you are on the wrong thread again.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 02:58 PM

Jim ~~ "A plague on both their houses" could constitute a very good answer to a vast # of ?s I could think of. But it does not answer the SPECIFIC QUESTION I asked, to which, by omission and evasion if not otherwise, you have answered "NO": viz, to reiterate ~~

While it is common ground [or anyhow no-one has denied it since I stated it all those posts back] that there are Muslim societies and states in which apostasy is a capital offence, can anyone name a state whose majority or official state religion is any form of Christianity. where this applies NOW; TODAY; not in the 16thC or in India in 1858 [if it did, which I beg leave to doubt]???

The failure of Jim, Ian, or anyone else to furnish any contemporary example of such constitutes, in any rational terms a

N O

and any attempt by Jim or anyone else to gloss any such failure to respond as being synonymous with Mercutio's famous dying curse from Romeo&Juliet is, I would submit, mere pissing down the wind...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 03:55 PM

"Is anyone being persecuted for their faith in Ireland Jim."
People are being killed and maimed on a regular basis for belonging to the wrong faith in Ireland - does that constitute being "persecuted?"
Only last week - that nice Mrs Robinson's (coo-coo-coo-choo) husband Peter, the leader of the present government in Northern Ireland, got himself into hot water for slagging off a college for "selling land to a "republican" = Catholic - so deep does the for religious unification appears to go in that part of the Island.   
"and any attempt by Jim or anyone else to gloss any such failure "
Nobody is glossing over anything Mike - just pointing out that this sort of thing goes with religion - any religion, and given the opportunity, they would persecute again as they have in the past.
I abhor any extremist regime, Christian, Muslim, Jewish... who persecute any group for holding different beliefs - but I find it as disgusting as anything I have heard of late (plenty to choose from) that one is any better than the other because they do it because they can get away with it while others, who have done it in spades in the the not-too-distant past no longer do so because they can't.
Fundamentalist religion is the problem, not any particular brand.
Let's hear if for the Israelis who persecute Muslims..... (sorry, I forgot, you find that too upsetting, so let's not go there), or those who despise Muslims because they don't share our dress sense.
No, no, no - I do not accept as human any regime that will support a death penalty for non-believers, nor do I support a religion who stands aside and allows its clergy to rape and torture children and then facilitate farther rapes by moving them on to the next parish
In addition, I utterly despise anybody who will pass one form of persecution as "lamentable indeed" or pass off rape and physical abuse as "issues in Ireland about abortion".
Damn them/you all for their murderously inhuman behavior, and damn them/you for your inhuman and one-sided hypocrisy - every single one of them/you have played your part in bringing further misery to this 'Vale of Tears'.
I have little doubt that if this continues I/we will be accused of "hating Christians" just as I have regularly been accused of "hating Britain" because I express my disgust at Britain's arms sales to terrorist states.
I was rather intrigued to come across a slogan recently from an American Christian group asking "WHY DO ATHEISTS HATE AMERICA" - brothers under the skin no doubt.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 05:06 PM

One of the greatest problems is that true Bible believing Christians are thrown in the melting pot with all the so called Christian 'Denominations' who do not stick to Biblical practice or teaching! Of all the Christian people in the world, how many think that they should fight for their rights.... wage war on other beliefs... wage war on other countries.... Fly a battle flag for Christianity?...... How many actually believe that the only way to bring peace to the world is prayer and supplication! All so called Christians are tarred with the same brush!.... Maybe we need to look at each individual and how they function/speak/behave before we make judgements.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 05:09 PM

an awful lot of blustering when an answer is lacking to a straight forward question!

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 05:16 PM

I used the word 'gloss' in the sense of 'interpret', Jim, as in 'glossary'; not in the sense of 'glossing over' anything. Sorry this was not clear - my fault. But I think my point holds nonetheless, that actual cap·pun for apostasy occurs nowhere today within the Christian community. I, for instance, am a baptised and confirmed member of the Church of England. [No Jews made any move to execute me when I became so in middle age, for that matter]. But when I declared myself no longer so, and declared explicitly that I had reverted to my default position of atheism, as my trying of an alternative to see if it suited had not done so [as my dear Valerie, a born CofE but atheist like me, put it, it never 'took']. But the vicar didn't call a meeting of the Parochial Church Council to sentence me to be beheaded on the village green. I am not being facetious in pointing out that there are villages in some Muslim countries where that would have been the literal outcome.

But still no-one has come up with an instance of any present-day Christian society where it would be so.

WHICH, I REPEAT, IS THE QUESTION I ASKED, DESPITE SO MUCH EFFORT BY YOU AND OTHERS TO SUPPLY IRRELEVANT ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS WHICH I DIDN'T ASK.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 05:27 PM

Re the bit about Jews in my last post: orthodox Jews go to the other extreme, and hold formal mourning — "sit shiva", as it is called, from the Hebrew word for seven, as such mourning involving symbolic sitting on the ground with sackcloth and ashes, which nowadays means hiring chairs from the synagogue whose legs have been sawn short so that one is sitting lower than anyone else, lasts for seven days — if any of their community apostasises.

In other words, they go on symbolically as if they were dead, but do not actually make them so ~~ unlike certain other demographics in certain places...

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 05:30 PM

... & only the most immediate relatives ~~ spouse, parents, children, siblings (but not in-laws, even) are expected or permitted to sit shiva.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 05:44 PM

I ,of course, take your point, Georgian silver, but in fairness the critics would have some justification in saying the same about any faith position. but that includes the mixture of atheism and idolatry of north korea also, as well as more obvious religions.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 06:17 PM

We live in a world where persecution involving horrible acts of violence and killing against members of religious minorities takes place.

Pulling in examples of discrimination on a vastly lower level and implying they amount to the same thing is disingenuous. It's analogous to the way that white racists will often do the same thing with regard to persecution of black people.

The lower level discrimination is wrong and needs to be challenged, and there are common factors - but it is important to avoid the kind of thinking which I assume underlay the post on this thread by someone who declared that people belonging to a particular religious community, who were living in daily threat of their lives, deserved it, as being Christians.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Elmore
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 06:53 PM

Don't have the patience to peruse this thread, but feel like I've been persecuted by a bunch of crazies who call themselves Christians since Bush 43 was elected. For the love of God, bring back the separation of Church and State.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 10:40 PM

"Irritated by" might be a more appropriate term Elmore, and very irritating they must be. But they aren't blowing up the places you get together with others, or burning down your homes and killing your friends, or throwing you in jail for your beliefs. The word "persecution" should perhaps be reserved for stuff like that.

It's not a bad idea to skim through a bit of a thread first. The same as listening a few moments to how a conversation is going before chipping in.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 10:40 PM

"Irritated by" might be a more appropriate term Elmore, and very irritating they must be. But they aren't blowing up the places you get together with others, or burning down your homes and killing your friends, or throwing you in jail for your beliefs. The word "persecution" should perhaps be reserved for stuff like that.

It's not a bad idea to skim through a bit of a thread first. The same as listening a few moments to how a conversation is going before chipping in.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Elmore
Date: 29 Sep 13 - 12:45 AM

Oh.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Elmore
Date: 29 Sep 13 - 12:47 AM

Oh.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 13 - 02:49 AM

Mike, My answer remains the same - I hate all (religions is probably the wrong word - "churches" is more appropriate) which oppress, murder. persecute people in the name of their particular god
As someone whose family has been a direct victim of such persecution through a good part of the twentieth century, I feel I have the right to do so.
However, I have become sickened by the constant efforts of someone who will use thread after thread, subject after subject, as a platform to attack one particular religion while defending the atrocities of other Churches - let me hasten to say, I do not refer to you directly, but you have allowed yourself to become tarred with this particular brush
Of course I am appalled by any religious killing and detest those churchmen who carry out such barbaric practices, but to see those practices used to malign ALL followers of that or any religion and add our persecution and hostility to the problems of those who have chosen to make a life away from these evils, equally appalls me.      
I know first hand the malign effect that a powerful and influential religion can have on individual families, communities and entire nations, but to make all believers of those faiths the target of constant abuse, branding them as cultural perverts, suspected killers and a general threat to 'our way of life' is as evil as anything dreamed up by the mad mullahs, extremist Zionists or fundamentalist Christians who pollute our world today and make it the minefield it has become.
Georgiansilver summed up my feelings about Christianity and I would apply his/her summary to all religions, not just one.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Sep 13 - 05:04 AM

I reject the accusations you make against me.
Persecution of minority faiths is an issue in our world today.
It may or may not be true that one faith is suffering significantly more than others, but there is a debate going on and it is fair to report it.

It saddens me that many who normally support the rights of minorities, you Jim, Richard, Greg, Musket, turn off your goodwill when one faith is mentioned.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 29 Sep 13 - 05:26 AM

Mike, My answer remains the same - I hate all (religions is probably the wrong word - "churches" is more appropriate) which oppress, murder. persecute people in the name of their particular god
.,,.
But it is not an 'answer', Jim - the same or not the same - to the question that I asked, for crying out bloody loud. I didn't ask who you hate. I don't give a flying one who you hate. Hate away till you're blue in the bleeding face and very funny you'll look. But all this has Sweet Miss Adams to do with identifying any Christian state or society in which apostasy is a judicial capital offence, as it is undisputedly [or anyhow you haven't disputed it & neither have any of the rest of you] in several Muslim-governed entities; which was the question I asked and to which you have furnished no 'answer', direct or implied, whatsoever.

All you have said makes perfectly good sense, and I would agree with much of it. But it bears no relevance to a VERY SPECIFIC question I asked; so why oh why do you persist in telling me it is an answer to it? As I said above: it's a good answer to many questions that might have been asked, but not, as you keep insisting, to the one that was. If I said what are 9x7 and you said 42, that would have been a fine answer - if only I had asked what are 7x6; but as an answer to what I actually did ask it would be worse than useless, wouldn't it? Can you really not see that point?

So put up or shut up --- please! You are boring me intolerably with your pertinacious point-missing. Not that that's anything new, is it?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 13 - 05:50 AM

"I reject the accusations you make against me."
Your rabid hatred of all things Muslim coupled with your proprietorialy taking over of any thread you can use as a vehicle for that hatred and your 'last man standing' approach has achieved nothing other than polarising all these discussion into 'for or against' and driving them into the ground.
Your input is far too irrational and inept to have any effect on the subjects outside this forum, but is certainly is doing an enormous amount of damage within it.
You are killing off any chance of a reasonable chance of a reasonable and rational exchange of ideas and knowledge.
Sorry I bore you Mike; I hope it's not half as much as you disappoint me.
Your 'Do you still beat your wife, yes or no' style of questioning really doesn't hack it for me I'm afraid.
I repeat, nobody is supporting any sort of religious extremism, but it cannot be divorced from any other form of religious extremism in discussions like these without leaving the door open for it to be used by fanatics like Keith.
I abhor Islamic fundamentalism, but I believe it has as little to do with general Muslim belief and practice as has the rantings to be found in Leviticus and Revelations to general Christian belief and practice.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 13 - 06:28 AM

Mike:
As direct a reply to your meaningless question as I can manage:
No - there aren't such states, but there have been in the past and given the right circumstances and the 'right' people at the helm, there could quite easily be in the future.
With Islam, we are dealing with Reigeo-feudalistic societies who are hopefully moving away from that position and (hopefully) taking on the best the rest of the world has to offer.
The only way this will happen fully is to encourage them and not saddle them with their history - this applies particularly to those who have taken the great leap of emigration.
Our own 'civilised' smugness needs to be balanced by the facts that the last witchcraft trial in Britain took place in 1941 (and Helen Duncan has yet to be pardoned), and the last Magdalene Laundry closed in Ireland as long ago as 1996.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 13 - 06:33 AM

Not forgetting of courese that there are still nutters wandering the world who are attempting to exorcise the evil out of people like me by "praying for us".
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: bobad
Date: 29 Sep 13 - 08:04 AM

How's the view beneath the sand Jimbo?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Sep 13 - 09:44 AM

Your rabid hatred of all things Muslim

That is a nasty and baseless little slander Jim.
I have never had a bad word for any faith.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 13 - 09:57 AM

Hardly baseless and certainly not little - ask the failies living in fear of having their windows smashed in by racist thugs inspired by outpourings such as your own - it seems you don't appear to read your own contributions along with everyone else's.
Your reputation goes before you.
"How's the view beneath the sand Jimbo?"
Not bad Bimbo - the air's certainly fresher than in your company
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Sep 13 - 10:04 AM

Just slander Jim.
I really have never had a bad word for any faith.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Sep 13 - 10:57 AM

"Irritated by" might be a more appropriate term Elmore."

Tell that to the husband of a woman who died because "Christians"[sic] prevented her from having an abortion, Kevin.,

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Sep 13 - 11:58 AM

Oh, and Kevin:


persecute, transitive verb \pər-si-kyüt\
: to treat (someone) cruelly or unfairly especially because of race or religious or political beliefs
: to constantly annoy or bother (someone)

persecution, Noun
:hostility and ill-treatment, especially because of race or political or religious beliefs
:persistent annoyance or harassment

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Sep 13 - 02:05 PM

Christians are not in control of medical services Greg.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Sep 13 - 02:18 PM

"Christians are not in control of medical services Greg."
The woman in question was told that her unviable and dangerous pregnancy could not be terminated because "Ireland was a Christian country".
The long and bitter battle that the government has been forced to fight in order to bring Ireland somewhere near where Britain was at the end of the 1950s has been opposed by the church and fundamentalist Christians, part of the time with politicians being threatened with excommunication - your knowledge of the influence of the church in 'Christian' countries appears to hover sometime near the end of the 1950s as well!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Sep 13 - 03:13 PM

First Jim, not all Christians oppose abortion.
Me for one.
Second, whatever they claim to have been told, no church has any say in what procedures are carried out in British, and I am sure, Irish hospitals.
Third, other religions, e.g. Islam, are anti-abortion, so why single out Christianity for your attack?

Finally, this thread is about religious persecution so please start your own threads instead of hijacking this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Sep 13 - 04:22 PM

Not only in Ireland, Jim. "Christians"[sic] in the U.S. of A. are spearheading the drive to abolish abortions AND birth control & have succeeded in making both virtually impossible to obtain in any number of states.

Christians are not in control of medical services Greg.

Bullshit. Open your eyes; I seem to remember something about motes & beams.....

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Sep 13 - 05:11 PM

Greg, not all Christians are anti abortion.
Other religions are anti abortion.
Churches do not control hospitals.
This thread is about the evil of persecuting people for their faith.

Please respect the important issue addressed by this thread, and start one on abortion if you must.