BS: Christian Persecution

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Oct 13 - 09:13 PM

Actually there were Quakers actively involved in the slave trade at one point, for what it's worth - which is very little.

Hoever the notion that persecution of a minority in a distant part of the world has something to do with "karma" because people with the same religion have been guilty of something in previous times is nothing to with with any notion of 'karma' that I have heard of. It is of course very much part of the antisemitic tradition...

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket sans Clapton
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 12:04 AM

I find persecution hilarious?

Yep. That's me. Difficult to type with my cloven hoof but you being one of Jesus' s sunbeams, you exposed me.

Sorry Keith. You should have said. It isn't something to be ashamed of. Comes to us all if we live long enough. Medicines slow down the downward spiral and in the meantime, people will sympathise with your condition rather than dismiss you as a bit of a nutter. Nowadays you can live a long and otherwise healthy life with the advantage that increasing ignorance is increasing bliss. Lucky bugger.

Mind you, you had us fooled for a while. It was your sweeping attributes of Christians that got the klaxons honking if I'm being honest. Seeing Jim Carroll winning an argument was a smoking gun too. According to a family member's trick cyclist, failing to spot irony is a pointer. All starts adding up.

I'm sure the old biddies in your church will pray for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 01:20 AM

Musket ~~ Your posts are getting more & more opaque & incomprehensible.

Once more, please, what are you on about?

For that matter, what are you on?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 01:55 AM

"Persecution is awful. Christian persecution is hilarious."

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 03:11 AM

I was fascinated with Keith's (well known) list of countries opposing abortion - another of his Damascene conversions maybe?
It confirms the fact that the practice of religion interference in the lives of citizens by the State is world-wide and most certainly not confined to one particular brand - Christianity being up there with the good 'uns.
Even when religious influence has faded into the background somewhat it remains a powerful force in the maintenance of the status-quo, always on hand to bless bombs and send our lads over the top should the necessity arise.
As I said - not just Christian persecution but persecution of us all by whoever wears the big hat and carries the curly stick.
I was reminded of a more subtle form of religious interference in my life yesterday on a visit to Limerick A&E.
Whenever you fill in a form here you are asked for your religion and I invariably reply "none" - which always appears on the screen as "not revealed".
Last time we were there Pat's (an Anglo-Scot atheist) ended up as "Catholic".
Not important, certainly not as the slaughter of one (any) group of believers by another (any) group of different believers - after all, who gives a toss where they ship off my 'immortal soul' when I've finished with it?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 07:25 AM

You are surprised that in a country where the great majority of people want a Catholic school, that there are not so many non-Catholic schools?
Would it surprise you to know that the Pope is a Catholic Jim?

Hospitals everywhere ask your religion on their standard forms.

To describe that as any kind of persecution is to demean and denigrate the suffering and misery of victims of actual persecution.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 08:00 AM

"To describe that as any kind of persecution is to demean and denigrate the suffering and misery of victims of actual persecution"
No Keith - to minimise and deny brainwashing from birth, church imposed and influenced laws which cause death and suffering is to attempt to corner the market on suffering on behalf of those you 'reckon, by those you 'don't reckon'
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 08:40 AM

... there were Quakers actively involved in the slave trade at one point...

Absolutely true. And Dick Nixon called himself a Quaker, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 10:50 AM

Have to say that despite my antipathy towards all churches the Quakers always struck me as the most humane and the ones least likely to shove a Christian tract up your nose before offering you a bowl of soup and a crust of bread.
I still remember with gratitude their hospitality, warm welcome and comfortable floor at the half-way point between Aldermaston and London on the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament marches in the early 60s - true practitioners of Christian charity as I understand the term.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 10:52 AM

You insult your neighbours.
They are as capable as the "brainwashed from birth" Italians are of choosing or rejecting whatever laws they want.

They are not helpless, ignorant, superstitious, dupes and do not need the likes of you and me to tell them how they should live their lives.

They are not being persecuted.
The world's Christians are being persecuted.
To extinction.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 11:24 AM

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/christianophobia-a-faith-under-attack-by-rupert-shortt-8274142.htm

Extract
Shortt's account of prejudice and killing puts paid to any notion that persecution of Christians is something that went out with the Romans and their lions. Whether in Middle Eastern countries like Iran, or in Indonesia or Pakistan, the Christians particularly at risk are those deemed guilty of apostasy: those people who have risked their livelihoods, even their lives, to convert from Islam. While the Qur'an does not say that apostasy is punishable by death, post-Qur'anic texts urge this.

As Shortt makes clear, violence against Christians is not exclusively the domain of extremist Muslims. In India, Hindus, often considered spiritually serene in the West, have been responsible for murdering Christians (Hindu extremists share a preference for burning Christians alive with their fundamentalist counterparts elsewhere). In China, there have been countless human-rights abuses of Christians by the ruling Communists, from confiscation of property to torture.

Shortt has done a remarkable job in compiling this book when so little attention has been given in the mainstream media to the plight of Christians, apart from the most high-profile cases. Even those of us who have reported on this persecution week by week over the past decade have not realised quite how vast a problem this is: Shortt's account reveals that Christians are oppressed in greater numbers than members of any other faith.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 12:43 PM

The world's Christians are being persecuted.To extinction.

For their sins. And not half fast enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 01:11 PM

Musket and Jim, I and I am sure others, would be interested in your opinion of Greg's position.
Would you distance yourself from such a statement?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 01:35 PM

Michael. I am on something. This thread. Either read all the posts to see I am replying to so done or shut up and put the kettle on. Your feigned ignorance doesn't make you look clever.

Keith. I make my views known without trying to figure the views of someone I know nothing about. If Greg said something about my posts, I would be curious, or if he said something I was curious about, I might. But just giving you someone else to take out of context either wilfully or, as I suggested, because you are going ga ga, no. Not interested in playing your silly little games. Persecution is bad enough, without one cult using their share as a tool to claw back unearned influence.

Even Michael is at it now. He usually has intelligence, but this is the third time he has started this childish " I don't know what you are saying (but I say it to make you look a prick anyway.)"

Persecution? Your bloody lot wrote the book.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 01:36 PM

Just ignore Greg F. He is just a silly baby who

...only does it to annoy
Because he knows it teases.

Why what a pathetic little specimen he is, to be sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 01:57 PM

there is certainly great persecution of Christians in many countries, but " to extinction"- I doubt it. that may be the wish of extremists of some isms, and the likes of greg, but history has demonstrated that it don't work. it bounces back stronger.
" I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" Jesus.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 02:38 PM

" I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it"

Hallelujah. Say amen, somebody.

However, the church Jesus was talking about is unrecognizable & nonexistant in the present world.

And there's no such thing as "hell", gates or no gates.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 03:55 PM

there is certainly great persecution of Christians in many countries, but " to extinction"- I doubt it.

Pete, if you care to follow the links I have provided you will see that many Christian communities that have endured for a thousand years are indeed dwindling to extinction now as a direct result of murder and unrelenting persecution.

Musket, you have Greg's comment in the context it was made.
There is no reason for you not to give your opinion of it, unless you are ashamed to.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 05:30 PM

This is pretty silly. Everyone apart from one person has repeatedly said that they think all persecution of religious minorities is a horrible think that should never be excused or tolerated.

It would be a very good idea if we drew a line under this thread. If anyone wants to carry on a discussion or a diatribe against the failings of any particular religious tradition, or of members of that tradition all of them, whether they are Muslims, Christians or whatever, it is the easiiest thing in the world to start up another thread directed to that. It would perhaps take as much as of twenty seconds to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 05:52 PM

Everyone apart from one person has repeatedly said that they think all persecution of religious minorities is a horrible think

Two people.
Musket said that the persecution of Christians is "hilarious."
Greg says that they deserve persecution and they are being persecuted to extinction "not half fast enough."

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 06:36 PM

And Jim denies that there is any particular issue of Christian persecution.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 07:14 PM

Enough, surely...

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 11:16 PM

Absolutely, Kevin.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Oct 13 - 11:31 PM

Or perhaps "Amen" would be more appropriate.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 12:02 AM

Whenever I have got fed up with a thread, I simply refrain from opening it any more. I suggest, Kevin & BWM, that you try that simple remedy for your ennui with this one, as some people would obviously prefer to continue with it. Why be so prescriptive?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 12:42 AM

Can't you sleep either, Michael?
Not to worry, the Japanese Grand Prix is on BBC1 in a few minutes.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 02:58 AM

We are not overburdened with BS threads just now.
Soon there will be none.

Are you not curious to see if musket and Jim are prepared to disown Greg's views?

Musket has stated that to hold the views I do I must have lost my mental faculties.
Most here think my views quite reasonable and normal.
I am not happy to let that insult stand.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 03:46 AM

"We are not overburdened with BS threads just now.
Soon there will be none".

RESULT!

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket again
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 03:53 AM

Go and have a lie down then.

Just for you, I will repeat what I said, and this time ensure the context of the word hilarious is obvious enough for someone who is losing his mental faculties.

The concerted efforts recently by Christians to claim their persecution is a special case is hilarious. It is very obvious that trying to link bloody atrocity in some countries with falling social influence in this one is the aim. To think normal educated people will somehow alter their dismissal of dismal superstition because some persecution is aimed at one particular cult is hilarious.

We have so called Christians, Keith amongst them, saying they can pick and choose the bits they like but then decry rational people for wanting to make use of the tradition aspects such as weddings, christening sand funerals. We have others, such as pete who are genuinely religious but will always find their outlook ignored, challenged or ridiculed. At least pete anticipates this, he sees this as part of the deal.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 08:41 AM

"Are you not curious to see if musket and Jim are prepared to disown Greg's views?"
I, like Mike, am bored (and in my case) sickened by this thread
You have distorted Musket's meaning, I don't for one minute accept Greg's statement as it stands and I very much doubt he does, but even if he does it doesn't come anywhere near the dishonesty and inhumanity you have displayed here and on countless other threads.
I have stated my own position clearly; I have no problem whatever with any religion; my life has been tied up with practicing, honest and sincere Christians from birth - my friends and a large number of my family are Christians; why on earth should you even have to ask.
I understand fully where Greg is coming from - if were are in any way typical of Christians I would understand why he feels it necessary to make his remark.
You represent everything I believe to be evil in so-called Christians, your inhumanity, your dishonesty, your mealy-mouthed hypocrisy, your deliberate avoidance of the suffering brought about by an omnipotent Church which has always sided with the establishment against the well-being of the faithful... absolutely breathtaking!
You don't even have the quality of consistency - you side unswervingly with terrorist states who carry out their atrocities supposedly in the name of their religion, yet you mouth support for some of the most dangerous Anti-Semites Britain has ever produced - at the time Jews were being herded into extermination camps - your reason - this particular breed of Anti-Semite happened to be British.
The only reason for even responding to your on-going bigoted vomit it toy allow you to dig yourself in even deeper that you already have into your extremist pit - you seem to have reached the lowest but I dare say you'll prove me wrong in that.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 08:57 AM

Greg said, "The world's Christians are being persecuted.To extinction.
For their sins. And not half fast enough."
He previously said that they "deserved" it.

Nothing ambiguous about that.

You have distorted Musket's meaning,

No I have not.
Here is the whole post

Musket evolving slowly - PM
Date: 08 Oct 13 - 06:53 AM

Ah. The deconstruction of the word laugh.

Wondered what your next distraction would be.

Persecution is awful. Christian persecution is hilarious. Why? Because it is about as much a topic as persecution of people with an odd number of moles on their arse.

If you started a thread about people being persecuted for their belief you would draw intelligent responses I suppose but your agenda is loud and clear. Pointing and laughing is about you, not the people killed and maimed whom you see as fodder to push a sectarian point.

This is about relevance of one cult as opposed to others to society, not counting the baptism certificates of victims of hate. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 09:24 AM

Can't see what your problem is with Greg's statement - you have said exactly the same thing yourself
Irish people don't have to live under Church imposed rules - they voted for them - their own fault
Mrs Halappanavar refused a church banned life saving operation - her own fault - they could have moved back to where they came from.
I don't like Irish laws imposed by the churches influence - I chose to live here.
What's the difference?
What both of them wrote is ambiguous - what you wrote is not and it reflects everything you have said about humanity elsewhere - Jews, Palestinians, Gypsies, British Pakistanis, Syrian massacre victims, refugees.... you name it, humanity is shit to you - especially when it upsets the good and the great.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket defining hilarious
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 09:50 AM

Can you repeat my thread again and again Keith?

Perhaps one day you just might read it....

Just catching up on the periodicals in the post whilst I have been away. The Week has reprinted an article from the previous week's Observer by John L Allen Jr (with a name that like he can only be an emissary from Dumbfuckistan) all about Christian persecution. A previous Archbishop of Canterbury was on the radio a while ago saying we persecute Christians in The UK.

Is the point of the exercise to keep maliciously pointing out atrocities and comparing them to increasing irrelevance in a modern free thinking society?

I find such comparisons abhorrent, disgusting and below any moral value most humans exhibit. When you next get to pick and choose which bits of Christianity are in fashion, can you quietly drop the trait of using any far fetched story to scare people into stopping questioning your cult?

Also, as you like asking me to answer any questions, here's one for you. Many Christians believe. They have belief. As your issues with your so called faith can't even get beyond the first sentence of the first book of the bible, under what terms do you call yourself a Christian? And how does that distinguish you from any normal person who doesn't see themselves as a Christian?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 10:49 AM

Throughout this thread Keith has insisted on the total innocence of the Christian church regarding persecution.
He has mouthed meaningless mealy-mouthed and uncannily church-like platitudes of sympathy for the Clerical rape victims, yet he has never once condemned a religious institution that can house such monsters
Nor has he uttered one single word of condemnation of the churchmen who acted as their accomplices, not only refusing to expose them but actively participating in their crimes by allowing them to continue to hold office in parishes where their criminal activities unknown.
No word on the leadership of the most powerful Christian Church in the world who still refuses access to documents which would make clear the suffering of rape victims.
If the church is so ineffectual and has no say in Government, why have so few child rapists been brought to book for their crimes?
Why has there never been on accomplice to these crimes tried - or even accused of complicity, other than by victims who have been
He has had pointed out the extreme brutality of the Magdalene Laundries where young women suffered conditions akin to slavery and extreme brutality - not even a word of acknowledgement - no word on the contemptuous attitude still being displayed towards their victims.
The Industrial Schools such as Ferns and Letterfrack, where young men suffered similar conditions - nothing.
The boast of the Jesuits that if they were given access to a seven-year-old child's mind they would produce a "lifelong Christian" - not a single word - an open confession of brainwashing - 'pure imagination'.
What is "laughable" is the idea that anybody who had defended and denied these crimes at great length should demand that we express sympathy for the Christian victims of persecution and keep silent on those who have suffered horrifically at the hands of the Christian church - now that I do find hilarious!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: bobad
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 12:29 PM

Yeah and Christians were thrown to the lions by the Romans and not a word about that by Jimbo.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket concerned
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 12:45 PM

Ah well that's cruelty. Lions thrive best on a diet of ruminant animals. Omnivores such as Christians aren't good for them, as their gut cannot easily digest the protein overload from creatures that eat meat themselves.

But, here in the UK, Christian persecution is more muted than some places. It is confined to persecuting gays, women and people of other faiths. Oh, choirboys, altar boys and vulnerable people who turn to clerics for help, those as well.

There are of course, instances, many of them, where people are being persecuted for being Christian. But our devout brethren on these threads aren't really addressing that, even when they refer to them. They are a carrier tool for trying to make normal people feel feel guilty for not letting them influence society as they used to.

Thank Clapton.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 01:05 PM

Clerical rape victims, yet he has never once condemned a religious institution that can house such monsters
Nor has he uttered one single word of condemnation of the churchmen

I have utterly condemned such abominations many times on the many threads about it.

This thread is about persecuting people for their belief.
Why are you demanding we discuss it on this thread Jim?
It is utterly irrelevant to the subject!

Throughout this thread Keith has insisted on the total innocence of the Christian church regarding persecution.
Not true Jim.
You lie.
Not once did I.
As usual you revert to making shit up when you have nothing else to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 01:11 PM

under what terms do you call yourself a Christian?

Ask me on another thread Musket.
You know so little about what you mock.
You are very ignorant indeed.
No shame in being ignorant about Christian belief, but it makes you look so stupid when you rant about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 01:30 PM

You have not answered one point I have made -
You have never once acknowledged the persecution and beating of children as being the responsibility of the church
You have never acknowledged the role of the church in the enlanevnet of young women or in the long term assault of residents of the industrial schools
You have mouthed sympathies for abuse victims yet you have never once even discussed the role of the church - from top to bottom - in those abuses
You continue to deny the influence of the church over entire populations even though every single individual to have cone into contact with the catholic Church is well aware of that influence and even the church itself boast about it.
You have not made one single reference to the facts you have been presented with.
It is you who have nothing to say - you have not produced one single piece of evidence to back up your extremist and bigoted declarations and you have even given up drying to defend your ideas.
The only reason I can see for you to continue behaving the way you do is to gain some sort of attention you seem not to be getting elsewhere.
Prove me wrong in anything I have just written.
You keep claiming "this is not about me" - it certainly is about your disgustingly totally unqualified and inhuman outlook on life.
Get another hobby
You really are the pits.
I do not lie - show me where I have

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 01:56 PM

you have not produced one single piece of evidence to back up your extremist and bigoted declarations

It is a lie that I have made any "extremist and bigoted declarations"

If it is not a lie, produce one.
Choose a really extreme and seriously bigoted one if you can.
Like Greg's!

I have produced copious evidence that Christians are being persecuted far beyond anything experienced by any other faith.

It is true I have chosen not to discuss clerical abuse again.
I have done so on appropriate threads, but this one is about denial of the right of belief.

You continue to deny the influence of the church over entire populations
No. I never have.
I have pointed out that grown ups are quite capable of overcoming that influence if they choose to.
Italy did.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 02:20 PM

I don't for one minute accept Greg's statement as it stands

Ah, but then Jim - you're not one of those literalists- in "iterpreting" the "bible" or anything else.......

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket pissing himself laughing
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 03:41 PM

Don't confuse lack of understanding with refusing to understand. I refuse to understand the righteousness of one cult slagging off others or lack of cult. I refuse to understand why society has always listened to the shit spewed out by clerics in order to support their more temporal masters.

I refuse to be thick or ignorant on the basis of asking why religion should be of any relevance to normal people. I refuse to be thick or ignorant because I noticed the real aim of threads such as this.

I refuse to believe or have belief on the basis of not believing the bible.

So.... What was it that allows you to point and laugh at me for? Not being a fucking Christian or not respecting hypocrisy?

The days of superstition are largely over, hence the rise of fundamentalism in all religious cults as a rearguard action by those wicked old men who will lose their influence and cushy number. Th only laws anyone can abide by in a democracy are those achieved by consensus and debate. That's your imaginary friend out for a start.

By the way, what if I asked you on this thread rather than another? You call yourself a Christian and say Christians are being persecuted. Sounds the ideal thread to me.

I'll just put the kettle on. This will be interesting....

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 05:31 PM

I do not just say they are being persecuted, I put up screeds of evidence for it.
Do you deny it Musket?

I do try to be a Christian Musket.
What is it to you?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 06:19 PM

A "Christian"[sic] musket. That about sums it up, for all the "Christian"[sic] war mongering thru the several millenia.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Oct 13 - 07:22 PM

Isn't there supposed to be some kind of ban on personal abuse on the Mudcat?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 03:06 AM

Jim,
I do not lie - show me where I have

Well, that is a big one for a start.
Just yesterday.
"Throughout this thread Keith has insisted on the total innocence of the Christian church regarding persecution."

Not true Jim.
Not once did I.

"you have not produced one single piece of evidence to back up your extremist and bigoted declarations"

It is a lie that I have made any "extremist and bigoted declarations"

If it is not a lie, produce one.

I have produced copious evidence that Christians are being persecuted far beyond anything experienced by any other faith.


"You continue to deny the influence of the church over entire populations"
Lie. I never have.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 04:11 AM

I really don't intend to take this any further with you - you have denied outright that the Church has had any influence in the making of any laws and have put it down as "being afraid to say no to the priest"
You have denied that it has any influence in the maintenance of ancient termination laws and blamed the medical staff for "errors" despite the fact that a simple operation could save lives.
You have refused to comment on the role of the church in the abuse, Magdalene and Industrial School horrors - apparently passing them off as blameless occurrences.
Nowhere have you accepted a link between injustices and atrocities with church influence, on the contrary, you have denied that such an influence exists.
You have suggested that the victims of those injustices should piss off and live somewhere else if they are not prepared to put up with them.
Throughout, you have refused to comment on the Churches' control of childrens' education and spiritual guidance almost from birth, and its demand that that control remains.
There is no need for me or anybody to "prove" anything - it just takes a scroll up this thread to substantiate anything I have written - you've said it all over and over again.
As I said, find another hobby that you're good at - you've made an utter hames at the last few you've put your hand to on this forum, especially over the last few months.
Now - back to the real world.
I remember hearing a discussion on the radio at the time of the fall of the Shah, when a contributor said that the world could now look forward to an increasing number of 'Holy Wars' now that his "stabilising influence" had been removed.
Someone else commented that this had always been the case and that religion had been the main cause of wars, atrocities and injustices throughout history, Christianity being one of the leading contenders.
The greatest threat to world peace today is a religious one and while Islam extremism is receiving the most attention at present it isn't by any means on its own - it only needs a peep at what is happening in the Middle East, with one of the contenders now possessing full Nuclear capability and another coming up fast on the inside track.
Backing one dog against another in this lethal race, as always happens in these discussions, is to miss the essential point - religion and politics is a toxic mix and supporting one side against the other only allows the boys to go on playing with their toys.
Don't know about you lot, but I'm far too old to go digging fall-out shelters in the back garden.
DAMN THEM ALL - NO CHURCH SHOULD EVER HAVE A SAY IN NATIONAL OR INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS WHIC AFFECT US ALL - IT IS NOT THEIR JOB. any more than it is the job of any individual member of this forum to tell us what we should and should not be discussing BTW
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 04:19 AM

Jim, this thread is about persecuting people for their beliefs, and the particular suffering of Christians where they are a minority.

That is why I will not talk about all that other shit.

Start some threads on those subjects or reopen some old ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket shaking his head
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 05:13 AM

The Church of England issue a request to their members to push for relevance, moan about being sidelined by society and try to claw back their once influential position. One way, according to guidance issued back in June to diocese offices, is to point out the suffering in the real sense wherever Christians are the minority cult and somehow use that as a way to stop people questioning them here.

There have been instances of this since. Members of The lords claiming that gay marriage was tantamount to Christian persecution. The laity in the bishops debate saying forcing women to be eligible for the top jobs is Christian persecution.

Starting threads such as this one fits into the mould wonderfully.

Why the word "Christian" in the title Keith? What was wrong with pointing out where one cult oppresses another, regardless of flavour? Why the particular emphasis on Christians? The coverage is part of an effort to gain more influence in an increasingly secular society.

Is a society that doesn't want to give religions privilege a threat? Isn't guaranteed freedom to follow your faith enough? Is it so bloody important to play the persecution card to get normal people to stop marginalising the ancient undue influence religion has had?

Enjoy your faith. Nobody is stopping you. But nobody is linking bloody atrocity to empty pews. Except those who see well adjusted people as a threat.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Oct 13 - 05:23 AM

I opened this thread two and a half years ago in response to a report on the level of persecution suffered by Christian communities.
I reopened it in response to another.
I quoted Angela Merkel a few days ago.
She is neither CofE nor Catholic.