BS: Nobody likes a Tory

Subject: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 10:08 AM

What a great facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Nobody-likes-a-Tory/144144931304

Just recently, Lords challenges to the privatisation and destruction of teh NHS, payments to crony companies to recruit to the army while 10,000 army jobs are being cut, fraud squad investigations, child poverty to increase by 600,000.


Of course there is an American equivalent - nobody likes a republican, here https://www.facebook.com/pages/Nobody-likes-a-Republican/168342996556568 but it is tiny in comparison. Come on America, save yourselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 10:09 AM

Hmm, I seem to have failed successfully to blickify


https://www.facebook.com/pages/Nobody-likes-a-Republican/168342996556568

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 10:23 AM

The trouble is, it isn't actually true.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 11:08 AM

I like tories. Mind you, I couldn't eat a whole one.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Bainbo
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 11:27 AM

That Werrity bloke seems to quite like a Tory.

Just the one, mind you. He's probably not all that keen on the rest of them. Any more.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 11:54 AM

Tessie O'Shea used to sing a song called Nobody loves a fairy when she's forty

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,The Lamenting Whelk
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 12:34 PM

Fox is just a Tory-engineered distraction to draw attention away from the fact they're in the process of trying to destroy the NHS and make a few quid into the bargain.

Lovely people.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 12:52 PM

when I was a lefty activist student back in the early 80's...

one bar room debate which involved serious intellectual & ideological soul searching and angst


was...

"Would you shag a really fit girl who voted tory ???"

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 01:02 PM

"Would you shag a really fit girl who voted tory ?

I think I'd take the question far more seriously than this thread

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 01:17 PM

That's Mudcat for you - the last refuge of the looney left!

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 01:19 PM

and I'd certainly take it far more seriously that ANYTHING the likes of GUEST, Peter Laban have to say...
Gawd...it never stops does it?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: David C. Carter
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 01:19 PM

And some of the rabid right!

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 01:27 PM

I'd think the answer "to really fit girl" and "really fit bloke" might not be the same in this case. (I mean, even when you adjusted for general preferences about stuff like that.)

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 01:54 PM

Oh it's not really the home of some of the rabid right, we let them in once in awhile, when we have need of a court jester or two

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 03:01 PM

after the drinking session following a rugby match at our college, most of the guys would have shagged a nazi war criminal of either sex.

in fact several did do just that, and entered into long term loving relationships.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 04:24 PM

With Nazi war criminals?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 05:16 PM

you got course credits in those days for being a nazi war criminal.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 06:10 PM

After the amount the Nottingham rugby club could drink, I'm surprised any of the blokes could shag anyone at all.

As for Laban the left-handed it looks to me as if it's really starting to fall apart for the Etonians and their fags (UK public school meaning, junior boy servants).


More and more people are realising the agenda of the conservatives.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 11 Oct 11 - 06:15 PM

I don't like most Republicans, but I don't like Facebook either. Is there hope for me?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 03:13 AM

I suppose there are many similarities between the Tory parties and the Republican party of America, but the one that stands out in everybody's mind is that they both gave us national leaders who traumatised the country - Thatcher and Nixon.

Thatchers simplistic dogma simply ruined the economy, infrastructure and manufacturing base for all time. Getting a President impeached left America ashamed and humbled and the Republican party distrustful of intellectuals of any kind.

Both employed dirty tricks from the MI5/CIA (bodies entrusted with policing national security) to get elected.

Since Thatcher - a sort of modern Thomas Cromwell character from humble origins, the Tories have retreated to the security blanket of enthroning one twit (usually posh) after another. The Republicans have well... well Dubya, Reagan - and Sarah Paling would have been the popular choice......!

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 05:23 AM

UK unemployment rose by 114,000 between June and August to 2.57 million, a 17-year high, according to official figures.

The Con-Doms are not working.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 05:32 AM

As this morning's Guardian puts it:

" In two crunch votes in the Lords on Wednesday, Liberal Democrat peers in particular must decide whether loyalty to their leader requires acquiescence in a botched law which he says was the best deal he could get…

As health budgets are squeezed, it will be more important than ever to have clarity on the underlying principles, such as where the buck stops. The coalition might have hoped to evade blame for problems that arise from the financial climate, but after the ruinous row over these reforms, every dropped bedpan will inevitably reverberate back to Whitehall – whether that is desirable or not.

The descendants of a liberal party which helped to found the NHS now must decide whether they are prepared to risk a row to defend it.

Capitulation here could carry a higher price than raising student fees.

The stakes really are that high."


Liberal Democrat peers must join their Labour and crossbench colleagues, do the right thing, stand up for the voiceless, the poor and the unwell, stand up to Nick Clegg and the Conservatives, and say no to the "reforms".

If the Lords fail us, it will be the end of the NHS as we know it. All for the profit of the fat cat privateers.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 06:51 AM

An interesting but fatally flawed statement, highlighting only the "mad dog knee jerk" reactions of the OP.

Firstly the Tories (whom nobody, according to the thread title, likes) polled more votes than any other party.

Secondly, the Liberal Democrats were willing to join them in a coalition government.

Thirdly, New Labour is in fact making very little inroad into their opinion poll lead.

Now you will undoubtedly say that they didn't have a majority of the popular vote.

True, but in a straightforward response to the question "Do you want to change the voting system?", the people of this country answered with a resounding "NO"! That was a majority.

In both cases, it is self evident that more people that the Tories are liked by more people than any other party.

The OP's proposition is therefore soundly defeated by a simple examination of the facts, and this thread is, ipso facto, arrant bloody nonsense.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 07:01 AM

More people voted against the conservatives than for them.

Most Lib Dems felt betrayed by Clegg's self serving alliance.

Since then the groundswell against the Con-Doms and Camer-moron feels substantial.

Right now hardly anyone is prepared to defend the Con-Doms save on the spurious ground "We are all in this together" - which the rich bastards are not and the rich bastards are being helped to get their noses in the trough.

Nobody likes a conservative (apart from their rich friends and bedfellows - those who benefit from stealing from the poor to give to the rich). Apart from the sadly misguided who will be made poorer but don't believe it or understand it.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 07:14 AM

Offensive tags and labels, along with disrespect to those who are on the opposite side of the debate, merely highlight the bankrupt nature of your argument.

I already dealt with the fact that the Tories did not have an outright majority of the total popular vote.

They were MORE popular than any other party....FACT!

And in the electoral change referendum, they did poll a majority on a yes/no vote.....FACT!

If you want to distinguish yourself as a master of debate, tell me what party ever polled a majority of the total population? Just the party, and the year will do.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: s&r
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 10:15 AM

They were less unpopular Don - not quite the same. The incumbents are always unpopular in rough times. The yes/no referendum was in answer to a loaded question.

For me you might as well vote for your favourite football team as enter into the charade that we call democracy.

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 11:42 AM

You should know Don, that the voting system referendum was a disgrace.

You should know that the con-doms are getting steadily more offensive.

Don't try to change the question. The cuntservatives had no mandate. The pillow-biters had no mandate. The Con-Doms had no mandate. Ever since they have been going down in peoples' estimation.

And as for Camer-moron's latest - 100,000 rise in jobless "disappointing" - how stupid does he think the electorate are? He promised the cuts. He has supported the cuts. He caused the rise in jobless. It is not a disappointment to him (none of his fat-cat mates are out of a job and anyway they will get into the trough in the privatisation of the NHS - or defence recruitment). It was his objective and mission statement.

Remember Lamont? In his view "high unemployment was a price worth paying".

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 12:22 PM

Cut and paste:

"Gay marriage? "We may as well legalise marriage with animals," says Tory
planetpmc.blogspot.com
A senior Tory councillor was facing suspension today for saying the party "may as well legalise marriage with animals" after David Cameron backed gay weddings. Party chiefs were set to discipline James Malliff after he posted the comment on Twitter. Labour condemned the "sick" remark and demanded Mr..."

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 12:29 PM

More people vote tory, because the rich guys have a monopoly of the media. No other point of view ever gets aired. the tories get petulant when they are even questioned about some of the bollocks they talk.

Remember when Kate Adie gave a report in that civilians were getting killed by US 'precision bombing' in Libya, and Tebbit tried to get her sacked.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 12:43 PM

Before the last election, the Liberals were reckoned to be more "socialist" than Labour.....then to get a taste of power, they ditched all the "socialism",just like Labour had done when in power!

Its all a sick joke, but a least the Torys are not hypocrits.

if you believe in socialism as a viable alternative to what we have at present....you are no longer represented by the political system in this country.

Thats what they used to say about the "Evil Communist Empire"

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 12:45 PM

Nobody likes a bigot!

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 05:24 PM

The government lauded the Work Programme as a "big society boost" for local charities. But three new reports suggest large private corporations are shaping to be the real winnners.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 05:53 PM

Bigotry, hatred,an intolerance of those who think differently or who vote differently, all pillars of this thing we call society, and dragging that society further and further in to the mire, and when society realises there's a problem, it'll be way too late;
and then where will we be....?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 07:14 PM

What gets me is being called names by somebody who I know is too intelligent to believe that New Labour would be successful in keeping the UK out of the economic quagmire which is currently swallowing Eire, Greece, and most likely Portugal and Spain.

It ill behoves the party which put us in this position by emptying the coffers whose ample contents were a legacy from the previous Tory government, an uncomfortable FACT of which Mr Bridge just hates to be reminded.

So when it comes to being deluded you don't emerge looking particularly bright Richard.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 07:17 PM

Should read "It ill behoves the party which put us in this position by emptying the coffers whose ample contents were a legacy from the previous Tory government, an uncomfortable FACT of which Mr Bridge just hates to be reminded, to now be claiming to have all the answers without being able to give details."

DT

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 07:55 PM

I like some tories - there are decent people in every party, of course there are.

But to pretend that the economic mess (currently engulfing the western world) is the sole fault of New Labour is damn silly.

Whether the cold showers and turn back the clock to 1953 gang of Daily Mail readers realise it or not, we have to look after our own citizens - watch out for them. Labour tries to find jobs for people. The tories since Thatcher have pursued a sort of gold standard in currency which just isn't an option - its an illusion and it costs our society at every level.

The trouble is that with both parties - it has to be said, they don't spend money wisely. they are so wedded to dogma. The budgets for health and education - don't get spent by doctors, nurses and teachers. They build schools and hospitals without even consulting the people who are going to be using these buildings. And they construct their policies in a similar high handed fashion.

We need an end to inter party bickering. More eyes on the ball getting things done in a professional manner. More all round competence. In other words, nothing wrong with these politicians - they're just no bloody good.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 10:19 PM

Oh, Don, is that "We're all in this together"? In that case why are the rich getting the parachutes when the rest of us are thrown out of the 'plane?

The stench around Dr Fox is growing by the minute - one of those who funded Werrity's trips admits it was for ideological reasons (I suspect more) but that alone is private wealth buying access for Werrity (who had no good reason to be there) direct access on the back of Fox's government position to foreign diplomats. In a word, corruption: the buying of influence.

Current policies are directly responsible for the highest unemployment for 17 years.

The NHS is being privatised.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Use your ability to help the country, not to praise those selling it down the river.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 09:41 AM

Almost half of England's further education colleges have seen a decline in student numbers - with the scrapping of allowances (notably the EMA) being blamed.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 12:27 PM

We must establish something here before we can go on. Is Diana Rigg a Tory?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 02:50 PM

Cost-cutting plans that would see Surrey Police team up with a private organisation are approved by the county's police authority.

Private armies next.

As to Diana Rigg, she is now over 70 and it alas shows - but subject to that LH your taste is impeccable.   Her father was a Conservative. So is her brother, a retired RAF Harrier test pilot. She is a crossbencher.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 03:24 PM

Right, then. ;-) I like Diana Rigg. As you say, time has caught up with her as it does with us all. Nevertheless, I shall always remember her as she was in the glory of her youth.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Musket
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 03:31 PM

I wonder how many Facebook pages there are for people who have been fucked over by solicitors?

Not being on Facebook, I don't know.

Also, I wonder how many people who would rather vote for Cameron than Milliband also enjoy folk music and generally enjoy Mudcat?

When I held public office I was not political in that I was not a member of any party, but of course had to deal with many MPs and councillors of all colours. To be frank, the jury is out in terms of whether one party or the other held the most loonies or decent people. Some of my friends would class themselves Tory and many others would class themselves Labour. I didn't think it was civilised to hate or love on the basis of views of how to progress society.

Tell you what though, if you don't have opposing views debating and voting, you get far worse policies than when you get good healthy challenge. Don't forget, a government is not opposed by the opposition, they are opposed by the HM Loyal Opposition. The inference being that challenge and differing views are healthy.

I for one am not minded to support the new Health Bill. Although not for the scare mongering reasons churned out by those who should know better, I just disagree with most of the bill and feel such a radical rethink should have at least a manifesto commitment to give it credibility. The sad thing is, The NHS will suffer if it isn't passed now, because the government has, quite wrongly, gone far so down the line already, the old structures are no longer there. For that, they want shooting, but linking that to hating a Tory? Sorry, I'm not thick enough to be happy with the link.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 04:44 PM

Hmmmmm! Disingenuous to a fault Ian. I can go along with this - 'not my fault guv', line from the tories to some small extent. But bad stuff happens too regularly under the tories for it to be a coincidence.

Since the last election in North Notts. The handicruiser bus has been scrapped. We used to take our arthritis support group for holidays and days out in this. We can't afford private stuff. The Dallas Streeet Centre has been closed. This provided respite for carers by giving a day centre for people to go to. Also we had our meetings there. The only other places we can get are church hall type venues that have bans on us running raffles to raise funds.

The trouble stems from the tory insistence on everything being market led. And every time money comes into the equation - corruption seems to come seamlessly in its wake. How else have we ended up with the main entrance to Kings Mill Hospital being built on a hill. Just watch elderly men like myself with heart conditions trying to push their wives in wheel chairs up a steep incline to access the hospital. Bloody ridiculous!

I don't think tories sre evil. my favourite aunt was a tory councillor for years. But she was a one nation tory - before the shopping basket tories, who knew the price of everything and the value of nothing, took over that party.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 06:21 PM

AFAIK, not many, Mither. The proportion of theftuous solicitors is tiny. Even the website "solicitors from hell" is now gone, closed by libel suits and a criminal blackmail investigation.

The preponderance of conservatives are, however, concerned to enrich the rich at the expense of the poor. They are evil.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 05:40 AM

Financial backers linked to Israel and a private intelligence firm helped fund the travels of Liam Fox's close friend Adam Werritty, the Times claims.

AND he was on a maverick foreign policy in Sri Lanka.

Surely the toad is toast.

And if Camer-moron has been protecting him, so should he be (the problem being that almost all the other senior cuntservatives are worse).

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 06:27 AM

Richard......!
cuntservatives.....really!

Can't take you anywhere!

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST, Richard Bridge with no cookie
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 08:06 AM

Iain Duncan Smith accused of 'losing his cool' in housing benefit outburst

Welfare secretary attacks Child Poverty Action Group charity for 'irresponsible behaviour' in challenging benefit reforms in court.


Easy for millionaire former Guards officers, innit?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 08:09 AM

Iain Duncan Smith accused of 'losing his cool' in housing benefit outburst

Welfare secretary attacks Child Poverty Action Group charity for 'irresponsible behaviour' in challenging benefit reforms in court.


Easy for millionaire former Guards officers, innit?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 10:17 AM

Millionaire Michael Hintze, the Tory donor who indirectly funded Adam Werritty, the friend and self-styled adviser to defence secretary Liam Fox, has tens of millions of dollars invested in defence companies through his hedge fund.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 11:42 AM

You're beginning to sound like the woman in Catherine Tate sketch, who screams in surprise every time she sees the kettle, Richard.

This sort of thing is what politicians do. As Lenny Bruce once said, I grew up in New York. I'm hip to corruption. When i was a kid, I knew the mayor was corrupt, the cops were corrupt. I figured I was corrupt too....

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 12:21 PM

Remember Mr Blair?....he never got caught ..yet.

The whole system is corrupt...thats what keeps it on the road.
Why are you all acting so surprised?

You are right Al, we are all corrupt, or would be if we got the chance......Its several centuries of indoctrination wot does it.

We really need somebody to knock the shit out of us and some common sense in.

I suppose thats what holds back change....the fact that we are all Tories when we get right down to it.....hypocrisy....especially "liberal hypocrisy"

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 12:41 PM

Gotcha, you bastard!

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: olddude
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 07:28 PM

whats a Tory?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 01:50 AM

A Conservative. Roughly, the equivalent of your Republican.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Musket
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 04:52 AM

Al, you are preaching to the converted to a degree. As Chair of a commissioning body with a vested interest in the redevelopment of Kings Mill, I voiced many concerns, and even about the new entrance, although that was more to do with Ashfield Council's original allowance for the new road between the roundabout and the lights at the top not having restrictions for public safety reasons and then allowing a new hospital entrance...

Anyway, the rush for PFI and committing the local population to a set of buildings for 25 years that may or may not be relevant for future healthcare delivery models was, for the benefit of Rumpole of the Volvo, a Labour decision, egged on by the then chancellor. Nuff said.

My comments about solicitors was based more on pointing out there are good and bad people in all types of people, grouped by profession, belief, outlook or hair style. Mind you, solicitors and politicians are down there with the estate agents hate figures in any polls. No doubt all professions ask for it. My involvement on health and social care can have me on the back foot, even when putting others on the back foot in the first place. Crazy old world.

I don't think the idea of "nobody likes at Tory" has any debating relevance any more than saying you don't like small people because they are all too assertive. No they're not, and many good people happen to align their outlook on life more with Conservative ideals than Labour.

I am, in most matters, very middle of the road in all this. I do think Labour have a safer agenda for the more vulnerable in society and worthy of a vote for all that. I share concerns that a Conservative overall view can lead to a Devil take the hindmost, but but their business friendly ideals (as opposed to present practice) put us in a catch 22. Labour would look after the more vulnerable and Conservative would create a more sustainable economy in order to look after them in the first place.

You know, I would be far happier with a thread saying "Nobody likes a politician" because regardless of who you vote for, you get the government.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 04:53 AM

Tories traditionally do well on 'strictly ballroom'. They do well on the balls quotient. Pull your socks up, get on your bike and look for a non existent job, and take cold showers....and you won't notice we've flogged the coal and steel industries to homicidal madmen in charge of third world countries.

Get the picture...?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 05:58 AM

Can we do Letwin next? Shall we call that "snake skinning"?

Oh, and Camer-moron has now invited Richard Desmond, the porn baron, to be his house guest at Chequers.

Yoiks, Tally Ho!

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Musket
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 06:02 AM

Yeah, but again, is that a Tory or a UK Government idea Al? I'm not convinced that Bliar was any different. He certainly had the opportunity to have a relook at coal and steel whilst in office. Mainly due to the financial demise of Richard Budge and Avesta. Ideal opportunity to offer the industries a chance to perform again, before the skills were completely lost and the government strong enough to set the agenda.

He didn't.

If we start saying that was because he was a Tory, we won't get anywhere in this (possibly) interesting thread. All UK politicians are Tory to a degree because we exist in a market economy. Al UK politicians are socialist to a degree because we have a welfare state.

There is a misguided view amongst the blue rinse brigade and chinless wonders that the object of the exercise is to oppose anything that looks vaguely socialist but there again, there is an equally misguided view amongst my fellow greyhound walkers and pint bearers that you must oppose anything a Tory says. Ask anybody under 25 what the idealogical differences are and you might be surprised by the answer.   If you only have Bliar / Broon to judge socialism by, most younger voters would have a problem thinking one side had a better outlook than the other. Their knowledge of Th*tcher is based on history books.

Hugh Gaitskill used to be in charge of third world countries, (he says, rummaging round for a tangent...)

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: s&r
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 06:37 AM

We still pay Fox sixty five thousand pounds a year while he waits for the fuss to die down and his new appointment to be decided


Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 06:49 AM

Interesting....could Blair have reversed the Thatcher revolution.....should he have tried?

Coming from the right wing of the labour party - he was never going to try, but would it have been a good idea?

I think by then it was a sort of Macbeth situation....'we are so far steep'd in blood etc......'

Certainly Blair was determined he wasn't going to step into the World of Shit that Wilson walked into when he showed only qualified support for Vietnam. Thus all the gung ho stuff. Plus he's seen Thatch get some easy plaudits for the Falklands - easy for her - not the soldiers and sailors who fought and perished.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 07:49 AM

""But to pretend that the economic mess (currently engulfing the western world) is the sole fault of New Labour is damn silly.""

Nobody is saying that the initial banking collapse was the fault of the Labour Government, though they did spend thirteen years encouraging the accumulation of personal debt and the removal of all restraints from those who aggressively marketed that debt.

The extent to which it has crippled this country, however, undeniably was the fault of those who squandered the ample funds which they inherited from the previous TORY government, and compounded the crime by selling our gold reserves, the very thing that backed our currency, at rock bottom price.

You cannot deny that we would have ridden out this trouble with much greater ease had this not happened.

Therefore I do blame them, and only them, for our current problems.

""Plus he's seen Thatch get some easy plaudits for the Falklands - easy for her - not the soldiers and sailors who fought and perished.""

So you believe that there are British Citizens who do not deserve the concern and support from their government which you enjoy as of right?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 08:18 AM

Don. even if they'd left everyone with a pocketful of fivers (which they didn't) it wouldn't have even started to redress all the things they had buggered up in the infra structure and the manufacturinfg base of the country.

They were a bloody disaster from day one, and it went on for eighteen years. If you lived in the parts of the country that Ian and i lived in you would have seen it first hand. I don't think either of us were Blair fans, but the Tories were a nightmare of unprecedented proportions. And no one is ever likely to equal their record for bloody minded mismanagement.

If you were daft enough to fall for their rhetric of intransigence - fair enough. Look at Nothern Ireland, eighteen years of bloodbath because she wanted to call the IRA criminals. Quibbling over words as people got killed.

It was same ludicrous pigheadedness that screwed up everything that was possible to be screwed up.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 08:22 AM

For those who mistakenly believe that Labour would be doing any better now, a couple of thought provoking comments.

1. Prior to the general election, Labour professed to have an alternative plan which would be better than the Tory proposal. Not long after the election it was revealed that this alternative would have involved taking just one billion less out of the economy than the Tory planned sixteen billion.

Big difference!......NOT!

2. Since the general election, Labour have contented themselves with standing on the sidelines slinging clods of mud, rather than setting out their ideas for a better way.

This because they simply do not have any ideas!

So, no change there then.

As one of those for whom these hardships are greatest, I am still of the opinion that debt can only be removed by facing the hardship and paying it off, and the sooner the better.

Debt always comes with compound interest attached, which increases the debt according to how long it remains uncleared.

The interest on the current debt would, in my opinion, cripple this country for decades, if it were allowed to accumulate for any significant period, and that, I believe would happen were Labour in charge.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 08:38 AM

""Don. even if they'd left everyone with a pocketful of fivers (which they didn't) it wouldn't have even started to redress all the things they had buggered up in the infra structure and the manufacturinfg base of the country.""

Al, they left a well stocked treasury, interest at 2.5%, and substantial gold reserves.

They also left a banking system which, in 97, wouldn't hand out mortgages and loans without thoroughly checking the ability of the borrower to pay (in 97, I couldn't borrow £250 to repair my broken down car and in 2006 I was offered £15000 for any purpose by the same bank).

As to manufacturing, that old chestnut has been over roasted. The skids were put under manufacturing by Wilson, Callaghan and the Unions by the mid seventies. By 1979 the whole lot was already disappearing down the hill.

Every Tory government since 1964 has started out with a Labour generated mess to sort out, and by the time it's sorted they are being blamed for it.

The last Labour government to leave the economy in a halfway decent state was the Attlee government, but then Attlee was both a Socialist, and competent. When will that happen again?....because when it does, I'll vote for it.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 09:21 AM

Thank you for those closing words, Don.

Now perhaps you will learn to see that while recent and current allegedly Labour politicians have flaws, the only realistic alternative is far far worse.

Actually, I am warming to Red, gradually.

And there is no doubt at all in my mind that if the Brown/Darling plan had not been run as it was (or larger) the shit would REALLY have hit the fan and we'd now be seeing unemployment of about 20%.

Be grateful for small mercies.

But eat a conservative a day if yu want to have a doctor next year.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 10:35 AM

Ahem!!!....I walk my greyhounds night and morning, and i would not consider voting Labour or Tory.

Most greyhound men are conservative in every way.
I've never met anyone who knew anything about greyhounds, who would describe themselves as "liberal"

I've never been so insulted in my life!(and thats sayin' sumpthin' on here)

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Musket
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 10:59 AM

You have a Greyhound?

In that case, Bridge is wrong to stereotype as he does regarding Tories. 'Cos if stereotyping is legitimate, then you and I both having Greyhounds must mean we are similar in other ways and that... oh yes... that..    is a step too far.

Anyway, you can't be liberal with a Greyhound. Their party piece is to lay perfectly still for up twelve hours at a time. If you were liberal, you would have too much time to interfere in community projects, wear sandals and visit council owned projects that celebrate sustainable ecological nonsense.

Oh.. must be just you and me then. Except I don't get wound up about blokes who bowl from the pavilion end in the same way as you do.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 01:16 PM

""Now perhaps you will learn to see that while recent and current allegedly Labour politicians have flaws, the only realistic alternative is far far worse.""

Or perhaps you will realise (though I very much doubt it) that when you are in shit up to your neck, it is foolish in the extreme to ask for more from those who immersed you.

Or does it have to be up to your bottom lip before you stop wanting more.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 02:00 PM

Tory MEP Roger Helmer quits
www.pinknews.co.uk
Conservative MEP Roger Helmer, who has been accused of homophobia, has resigned. Mr Helmer last year angered gay campaigners with a tweet about 'gay cure' therapy.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 02:01 PM

Nobody likes a Tory
NEW YORK TIMES EDITORIAL
"Austerity was a deliberate ideological choice by Prime Minister David Cameron's ruling coalition of Conservatives and Liberal Democrats, elected 17 months ago. It has failed and can be expected to keep failing. But neither party is yet prepared to acknowledge that reality and change course."

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 04:07 PM

Look! all we have to do is vote tory, pull our socks up, get on our bikes, read the daily Mail.....what's the matter, don't you believe what Don is telling you?

Its all the fault of Tony Bliar, the trade unions, and your darling Harold.....etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 06:19 PM

Interesting story in today's (15.10.2011) Independent about Dr Liam "Whoops! I've just shot myself in both feet" Fox:

"When a gay and lesbian society applied for admission to the Glasgow University Union, it's president, Vince Gallagher, announced: "We don't want poufs in our union." The student council passed a resolution condemning this offensive comment, whereupon Mr Fox resigned, and was quoted as saying: "I just don't want gays flaunting in front of me, which is what they would do."
When the Commons voted in 1999 to reduce from 18 to 16 the age at which gay sex is legal, and in 2000 when MPs voted to repeal the notoriously anti-gay Clause 28, Mr Fox was one of the minority who voted against the changes."

I post this without further comment ...

Although can't quite stop myself from celebrating the fact that a right-wing Thatcherite Tory has brought about his own downfall!!!! Aaaahahahaha!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 06:51 PM

People like Don(Wyziwyg)T want far far worse, it's the only way they can justify their existence, trouble is they drag everyone else down to their level.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 06:51 PM

Bent, bent, and more bent.

Read it. Corruption going to the heart of the cuntservative party.


Fox affair: donors' fury over 'lies'
www.telegraph.co.uk
Liam Fox and his best man Adam Werritty were battling damaging new allegations over their conduct last night.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 06:55 PM

Occupy Wall Street Protests Spread Around the World
www.nytimes.com
Most events drew modest numbers across Asia — the largest crowd was in Sydney, Australia, where some news reports estimated up to 800 were in attendance.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 12:56 AM

Oh look. It's a flying pig. Or is it an honest conservative?

Honour the pledge to clean up lobbying, Mr Cameron
www.guardian.co.uk
Observer editorial: Transparency is what the prime minister has previously promised. Now he must deliver

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 01:07 AM

Just how bent do they have to be before they ALL go?

Liam Fox's Atlantic Bridge linked top Tories and Tea Party activists
www.guardian.co.uk
Officially it was a charity; in fact, Fox's thinktank was a meeting place for the movers and shakers of the right wing

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 01:13 AM

UK economy 'stalled', warns Item Club
www.guardian.co.uk
Ernst & Young Item Club lowers forecasts for UK growth to just 0.9% and warns that Britain is 'stalled at a dangerous junction'.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 04:01 AM

Number of health visitors in NHS slashed... despite David Cameron pledging to boost levels
www.mirror.co.uk
DAVID Cameron has broken a promise to boost the numbers of health visitors working in the NHS, with levels now at a record low.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 04:49 AM

This government is doing a sterling job concerning the abuse of state benefits. I am pleased to read in the Times, that they will cut off incapacity payments if people challenge the ruling that they are fit to work.

The Welfare Minister, Chris Grayling says, under new proposals, hundreds of thousands of people on incapacity benefits could be cut off from support if they challenge the ruling that they are fit to work.

In April, the government began a reassessment of the 1.6m people claiming sickness benefit, as part of a plan to reduce the annual £7bn incapacity bill.

The new Work Capability Assessment (WCA) has stricter criteria and finds many more people able to work. However, serious concerns have been raised about the reliability of the tests, run by French company Atos. Charities such as Mind, the MS Society, and Parkinson's UK have all raised concerns about a rigidity of questioning that does not take into account the range of problems that might prevent people from working.

Tories will end the "loafer society" in Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 04:57 AM

After the resignation of Liam Fox:

"David Cameron shifted Philip Hammond to take charge at the Ministry of Defence, while Justine Greening replaced him as Transport Secretary. According to the Sunday Telegraph, the reshuffle was so hastily conducted that Mr Cameron contacted his ministers from a train platform surrounded by morris dancers."

Should morris dancers really be associating with such people?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 04:58 AM

Hmmmm.....apparently the loafer society problem isn't quite solved yet...come on Tories we're right behind you on this one!

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Musket
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 05:47 AM

Hard to separate the wheat from the chaff here.

Fox is and always has been a little shit in my honest opinion. How we can trust cabinet votes to a man who is so openly homophobic yet secretly, well let's not join in the tabloid view of his secret life, has always been beyond me. I heard the other day his wit is so wonderful, his attempts at entering he book of quotes includes "The Spice Girls - Three dogs and a blackbird." When he spoke on health, he was the archtypal bad example of how older (than him) GPs have conveyed corporate arrogance over the years and made it more difficult for younger GPs to put that image behind them.

Yeah, I have no time for Fox and although not proud of myself for saying so, I am enjoying his downfall.

But, and I almost repeat from my first post on this thread. Can you extrpolate that into saying ALL Tories are etc etc, any more than the dodgy solicitor from Doncaster who defrauded hundreds of miners out of their compensation claims is a perfect example of solicitors?

If you can't, then it is a bit rich using him as an example of all that is wrong with a general outlook on life that isn't socialist. I am not a Tory, never likely to be one and disagree with many of their ideals and even most of their more pragmatic policies. But to use a flavour of "business as usual" government as a scape goat for all that is wrong with the country and even the world... doesn't say much for having faith in democracy does it?

The big business multinationals aren't aligned to any political view and if you think they are, I suggest having a closer look and seeing if you still think so. Big business deals with all political flavours and all political flavours deal with big business.

If anybody can tell me the difference between Cameron and Milliband, I'm all eyes and ears. "Cos be buggered if I know.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 07:29 AM

Yes, either Fox is a homophobe or an unscrupulous hypocrite; and, in my opinion, if he's either of those he shouldn't have been holding a ministerial position or any other form of public office. As a voter and taxpayer, who pays their massive salaries, I DEMAND that people in high office have the highest possible standards and are beyond reproach (and don't give me any crap about 'human nature' - that just allows them off the hook).

"Big business deals with all political flavours and all political flavours deal with big business.

"Agree - but, of late, many politicians seem to have forgotten that they are supposed to support the people who elected them and are only concerned with their relationships with Big Business.

"If anybody can tell me the difference between Cameron and Milliband, I'm all eyes and ears. "Cos be buggered if I know."

Buggered if I know either, Ian! I have as much time for Labour as I have for the Tories.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 08:00 AM

If anybody can tell me the difference between Cameron and Milliband, I'm all eyes and ears. "Cos be buggered if I know

One is a lisping fool - I wonder which one!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 09:37 AM

Let's get one thing straight, Cameron is NOT a fool - if you look closely at his handling of the Fox affair you'll see that. We anti-Tories should never make the mistake of underestimating them.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Ex Cllr
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 10:33 AM

Hi Richard, I did enjoy that drink we had at the barbecue last year, look forward to the next time. Mike Gibson

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 11:09 AM

Let's get one thing straight, Cameron is NOT a fool.

He certainly isn't, but but I'm not sure that applies to the lisping one.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 09:48 PM

‎"They [the government] are unable to take on vested interests, they won't tackle the spiralling prices imposed by the energy giants, they won't investigate the mis-selling of energy and they won't help the pensioners whose winter fuel payments have been cut." Caroline Flint

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 09:53 PM

A millionaire hedge fund baron who was a key backer of Liam Fox had hosted the new Defence Secretary, Philip Hammond, at a series of lavish fundraising dinners for the Conservative Party.


Mr Hammond, appointed by David Cameron as a "safe pair of hands" to the Ministry of Defence after Mr Fox's resignation, lists Michael Hintze, an Australian-born former Goldman Sachs banker, several times in the MPs' register of interests as a donor – including one for "£1,700 hospitality at Carlton Political Club Dinner" – before and after he became a Cabinet minister.

Mr Hintze, one of the richest men in the UK with an estimated fortune of £550 million, donated more than half the budget for a charity, Atlantic Bridge, set up by Liam Fox

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 10:02 PM

'With new house building at a post-war low – with just 134,000 new homes built in the UK in 2010 according to Government figures – the housing charity Shelter last week said stagnant incomes had forced families with children to cut down on buying food to pay for rocketing rent increases.'

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 10:04 PM

A former soldier given a key Ministry of Defence job by former Defence Secretary Liam Fox - against the advice of senior military officials - was in his flat the night it was burgled last year.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 10:11 PM

The figures show that ministers met corporate representatives on 1,537 occasions in the first 10 months of the coalition. This excludes several hundred round-table meetings where numerous companies were present.

Trade bodies, thinktanks and other interest groups had 1,409 meetings. By contrast, charities were met on just 833 occasions, and union representatives just 130 times, less than a tenth as often as their corporate counterparts.

Tamasin Cave, of the lobbying transparency group Spinwatch, said the records of ministerial meetings showed the wide extent of corporate networks of influence, but she also warned they may merely scratch the surface.

"The findings show a massive disparity in ministerial access for different types of groups – corporate interests clearly have privileged access. But these are just the meetings we know about: Conservative ministers in particular are meeting outside interests in a private capacity.

"This just can't be done when ministers are meeting those who have commercial interests. In this context, private simply means secret."

Cave added that her organisation was engaged in a freedom of information battle with Cabinet Office minister Mark Harper, who is overseeing the coalition's plans to introduce a lobbying register. Harper, she alleges, is resisting an FoI request asking for details of his meetings with lobbyists to discuss lobbying transparency.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 10:18 PM

There really seems to be a plethora of faultlines going to the heart of this unelected set of rulers - and if White man is right in what he posts, that must be one of the most damning things that could be said about a government - that it proposed to disapply the rule of law.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Musket
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 03:35 AM

Sorry Bridge, no offence, but you are not saying anything about Tories, you are saying things about Ministers and the working of government. It is seedy, odious and wrong, but it is not a trait of being a Tory, it is a trait of being dazzled by the system and walking blindly or otherwise into the stiffy that power gives you.

Bliar and Broon had Ministers who could fit into your cut and paste posts above, just change the names and portfolios.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 04:10 AM

'With new house building at a post-war low – with just 134,000 new homes built in the UK in 2010 according to Government figures – the housing charity Shelter last week said stagnant incomes had forced families with children to cut down on buying food to pay for rocketing rent increases.'

Yes, Richard but Labour's laissez-faire approach to planning (particularly where I live) led to thousands of 'luxury' houses and flats being built - rather than the badly needed social housing that the last two governments of 'free market advocating socialists' should have been building! There's supposed to be a shortage of housing, but a forest of 'For Sale' and 'To Let' signs everywhere I look. Thats because Labour, under Blair and Brown, failed to regulate planning and the market.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 04:22 AM

'In his first budget, George Osborne said he wanted to create 800,000 jobs across the country with a national insurance tax holiday for employers taking on new staff. However, figures in the summer showed that in the first year of the scheme only 4,368 posts were created. Last week, unemployment increased by 114,000 to 8.1% of the working population.



'North-south divide widens as public sector cuts hit businesses



www.guardian.co.uk
North-east sees highest rise in companies in distress while London and south-east are comparatively unscathed.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 05:08 AM

Big firms warn young jobless rate 'to rise further'
www.bbc.co.uk
Record youth unemployment is set to rise even further this autumn, a survey of Britain's biggest companies suggests

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 05:15 AM

Downing Street advisers are growing increasingly alarmed that the Prime Minister may be losing his "compassionate" image with key groups of women voters.

The disclosure of the polling results helps explain why Mr Cameron has apparently sought to reach out to women over the past few weeks - apologising for making sexist remarks in Parliament and promoting more women to senior Government positions.

The Conservatives private polling shows that Mr Cameron is being rejected in increasing numbers by women in skilled manual jobs. It found that 25 percent more women than men believe the economy is going in the wrong direction and ten percent more women say that public spending cuts are being made in an unfair way.

Women are also said to be far more concerned about an apparent hidden "motive" behind Conservative plans to reduce government borrowing to cut public spending.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 05:29 AM

100

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 05:40 AM

That's alot of posts Richard. Are you feeling okay?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 10:22 AM

Why are you bombarding us with all of this stuff, Richard? We, who are unhappy with the present Government, know all of this already. Shouting at us about it won't improve things.

But you know what will, though? Making your precious Labour Party electable again! That's a big ask, though - because you'd have to get rid of the Blairites, the Brownites, the dogmatists, and the smug, pseudo-socialist gob-shites, and the crypto-Tory free-marketeers and all of the other idiots that you insist on packing your party with. In addition Labour would have learn to listen to people- rather than assuming that they know what's best for them and cramming doctrinaire garbage down their throats. Perhaps then your party might stay in power for a bit and have the opportunity build the fairer society that most people want - and you lot claim to want.

But I suspect that Labour is much more comfortable in opposition from where its supporters can perform their, "I'm-more-socialist- and-holier-than-thou-aren't-the-Tories-awful" act to their heart's content!

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 10:38 AM

Yes! I agree with that Shimrod.
The Labour/Tory shit is divisive, we either wait till our living standards have declined to the point where we become "competitive", and watch our young folks rot for twenty or thirty years, or we admit that Capitalism has failed....just as Communism failed...and try to construct a society which is not driven by the power of money.

The Communists made the mistake of trying to compete on the Capitalists ground, with Capitalist weapons.

We need inspiration and courage.....and no false promises.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 11:22 AM

My purpose is to demonstrate just how bad how many conservatives are. Every little helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 11:58 AM

There are arseholes of all political persuasions, the tories don't have a monopoly - ask the people of Doncaster.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 12:22 PM

This has to be the most boring thread ever. It is dull and pointless. If the main contributor wanted to make it boring on purpose just to prove that it could be done, well Dick, you proved your point. It is repetitive and almost impossible to read. Go through the comments and see if you can stay awake.


very boring indeed.


now here are some tips on golfing...


When you pick up a golf club your hands are the only part of your body that touch the club. For many years the hands (grip) have often been referred to as the steering wheel of the golf swing. I don't believe this could be more true. Gripping the golf club correctly makes playing this game a much better experience.
Gripping the golf club at first glance does not seem like a very difficult thing to do, however, it can take a lot of trial and error to figure out the correct grip for you. This is a very interesting aspect to the game of golf. Gripping the golf club is a VERY INDIVIDUAL thing for everyone that plays golf. There are no two grips alike. You can only find what works for you through hitting golf balls. I can and will guide you, but ultimately, results on the golf course speak louder than me.

Place the golf club up in your left hand, the golf club goes across the left palm- from the base of the forefinger to the pad above the pinky.
Now, hold the handle steady with your left fingers and wrap your palm around the top of the grip...

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 12:33 PM

""People like Don(Wyziwyg)T want far far worse, it's the only way they can justify their existence, trouble is they drag everyone else down to their level.""

OK arsehole, what exactly do you know about me, or what I want?

Nothing!!.............So STFU until you have a sensible comment to make.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 12:35 PM

I totally agree this thread is boring and repetitive, just like the ramblings of Tories (and their supporters) and golfers

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 12:40 PM

""Just how bent do they have to be before they ALL go?""

At least as bent as Wilson, Callaghan, Blair and Brown would seem sensible, and that didn't kill off any of them.

In terms of jail for fraud it's Labour MPs 3 - 1 Tory Peer.

Facts have a horrible way of messing up a good old fashioned bias, don't they?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 12:44 PM

'This has to be the most boring thread ever'

well theres some tough opposition there. I'm quite enjoying the thread. if you don't like it, don't read it.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 12:53 PM

No Don, that just shows that law ia as bent as a corkscrew. Lets be accurate three labour guys and one black bloke- that's the real score.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 01:02 PM

""DAVID Cameron has broken a promise to boost the numbers of health visitors working in the NHS, with levels now at a record low.""

Are you suggesting that Cameron is God, and can just produce Health Visitors with a snap of the fingers.

My daughter who is already a grade E nurse (pre nursing 2000), and is currently doing a degree course to become a Health Visitor.

There has been a desperate shortage for years, and it's a bit inane to believe that anybody has broken a promise because it hasn't been filled in just 17 months.

Doubly stupid to blame the new government for the current campaign of disruptive and destructive actions being carried out by Administrators in both the NHS and in local councils, even Tory led ones like KCC, who took on a number of senior staff on a temporary basis at astronomical salaries simply to operate as hatchet men in getting rid of more junior staff.

Half a dozen of them will walk out very shortly with six figure handshakes, while the rest of what staff remain have their pay frozen.

Before anyone gets the wrong idea, THIS IS NOT AN ISOLATED CASE! Nor is it confined to Tory organisations.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 01:13 PM

""Tamasin Cave, of the lobbying transparency group Spinwatch, said the records of ministerial meetings showed the wide extent of corporate networks of influence, but she also warned they may merely scratch the surface.""

And of course Ms Cave couldn't possibly have an axe to grind or be as bigotted a left winger as some who quote her (unsupported by evidence) guesswork about the sub surface levels.

No, she's slagging the Coalition so it must be true,........eh Richard?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 06:09 PM

£20bn NHS cuts ARE hitting patients
www.guardian.co.uk
David Cameron and Andrew Lansley say patients should not suffer from 'efficency savings'. The facts reveal a different story.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 17 Oct 11 - 06:32 PM

"In terms of jail for fraud it's Labour MPs 3 - 1 Tory Peer."

a thief is a thief regardless of political stripe or nationality.... so the the smugness is rather misplaced isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 03:55 AM

Even the Daily Mail turns on the bent conservatives and their lobbyist friends

https://www.facebook.com/notes/nobody-likes-a-tory/no-action-on-lobbyists-funny-that/10150336430683182

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 04:00 AM

Another bent bastard conservative minister controlling profits from from his functions.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/17/jonathan-djanogly-stripped-power-ambulance-chasers?newsfeed=true

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 04:17 AM

"Even the Daily Mail turns on the bent conservatives and their lobbyist friends"

Dickie, thought you would not believe a word they print ?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 04:19 AM

Lots of good (bad) stuff on the facebook page today! This appalling government has fulfilled all our worst expectations.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 07:36 AM

""a thief is a thief regardless of political stripe or nationality.... so the the smugness is rather misplaced isn't it?""

Richard Bridge posed the question "How bent do they have to be?".

I merely responded to the level of smug self satisfaction inherent in that question, pointing out that the weapon he is attempting to use is bloody sharp at both ends, and likely to be more damaging to Labour than Tory reputations.

Mr Bridge's insanely rabid denunciation of about 45% (varies, as usual, from week to week) of the country's voting population says much more about the workings of his mind than about those he disrespects, and I would suggest a therapeutic dose of vallium might be efficacious.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 07:52 AM

Now come on Don! Focus....!

What has he got insanity, or rabies....?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Oct 11 - 08:35 AM

No Don - the revolving door is spinning faster than ever in this government, and not even the cronies can see much good news for the conservatives. 45% support right now? Do me a favour. More like 30% and falling fast. The stream of stories that discredit Camer-moron and Os-bung became a river and now it is a flood. Inflation is up, employment is down, the disabled are discriminated against, the NHS is being dismantled and universities are for sale.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 11:18 AM

I am about to try to redirect intervening threads back here, for tidiness.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 01:23 PM

Richard, YOUR half term writing assignment is an essay.

If I were David Cameron for a day.......

Remember Mr Cameron has a busy schedule with children to make breakfast for, a wife to propitiate, and he lives in an 18th century rat infested slum, with his cat Larry. Try to inject some humour about the situation into your essay.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 01:56 PM

Still not listening, Richard. Why am I not surprised?

I'm probably wasting my breath - but making the Labour Party electable again has got to be the way forward ... Excuse me but why are you sticking your fingers in your ears and going, "la, la, la, la"?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 02:02 PM

"Labour Party electable again"

and for your next joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 02:34 PM

I must thank Max for responding so quickly to my request to re-open this thread, which is IMHO only beginning to deal with actual discussion of the issues, as opposed to somewhat frantic anti Tory rhetoric, full of thunder but void of substance.

Where Tory MPs are not getting the message that things must change, and that old right wing policies, and old fiddles (both left and right) won't be tolerated, I'm as determined as any of you to do my best to make it clear what the Tory voter wants them to do about it and my MP must be getting fed up of hearing from me.

By the same token, I am getting very fed up of being slagged off by people who have both the education and the intelligence to know a political system, to be accountable, must have alternatives to offer the voting population.

All one party states are, ipso facto, dictatorships, something I think we all know to be undesirable.

So, at least two parties, preferably three, and the fact that I decide to vote in a different direction than you does not make you Good and me Evil, or vice versa.

Nothing has done more damage to Socialist Labour than having voters who say "Labour is for the working man" or "Labour was good enough for my father, so it's......etc". Such a stagnant and unthinking mind set has rendered the genuine "Old Labour" unelectable, because it sets up a barrier against the middle classes' votes being cast in that direction.

So, we now have a Tory Party whose leader is at least trying to move to a more central and more caring position, assisted by a coalition partner which traditionally belongs in the centre, and we have an ersatz Tory Party, which made itself electable by betraying everything that Labour once was, and still should be, and having achieved control, simply frittered away the opportunity, the country's wealth and the respect of socialist voters.

I have said on numerous occasions that when I see a socialist party I will vote for it, but given the choices as outlined above, I believe that I have made the right decision.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

""Now come on Don! Focus....!

What has he got insanity, or rabies....?""


One doesn't need to be factually mad or infected with rabies to make comments which precisely fit the description I employed Al, but then you already know that.

Mark 4 out of 10 - Must find better arguments.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 02:44 PM

I think the starter of the thread should have the final say in the matter

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 03:16 PM

I posted the following on the Conservative local cuts thread. Reposting here now.

As part of my council job (lowly business support) I manage a load of volunteers who in effect are taking paid work away from qualified professionals. Also I should know just before Christmas if my post is going away as business support is being restructured into one service with service level agreements to the myriad services they support. Lots of redundancies and lots of downgrades.

The effect of the cuts will mean that managers, officers, social workers, etc. who actually deliver services to the public will be tasked with doing much more of the business support work (filing, answering phones, minute taking, arranging meetings and travel, ordering goods and services) for themselves because there will not be the support staff to do it. More time doing admin work equates less time delivering services.

Eventually every service will be expected to become self supporting financially too, which means commissioning (managing services and projects for other authorities) and / or becoming a traded company and selling service back to the council. We know what the grand plan in our council has been for a long time. Just one small very highly paid top level organisation, contracting with external businesses for all public service provision.

We have also seen how this model fails, especially for vulnerable people. Once the council removes itself from the direct service provision they can easily wriggle out of failings of private companies to deliver the provision. Care homes come to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 03:29 PM

Labour had a shot at it, do I really need to give the result ?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 03:51 PM

the Conservatives will do no better

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 04:18 PM

Don and Bluesman, you don't agree with Richard. He shows no sign of being rabid or insane, His words and arguments are lucid enough. Its simply that your viewpoint is different.

Both of you, your manner is abusive and intemperate.

Richard, your posts tell us nothing that was not in both the Telegraph and The Times - hardly left wing scandal sheets. You are only concocting these posts to pull Don's tail feathers, and it is very naughty of you.

With regards to the fall of Fox - it is hardly a matter for rejoicing. As Portillo said on the Politics show, Cameron has now got a very able Thatcherite of impeccable pedigree pissing into the tent.

Thatcherites believe that self enriching little pecadilloes, like the Werrity business is just showing initiative. By the time Thatcher herself left office her son had become the wealthiest arms dealer on the planet. I bet Mark wasn't dumb enough to get Vistaprint cards done, like some fifth rate salesman.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 05:43 PM

""One doesn't need to be factually mad or infected with rabies to make comments which precisely fit the description I employed Al, but then you already know that.

Don T.""

Which part of this essentially simple sentence is beyond your powers of comprehension Al?

An examination of Mr Bridge's name calling of Tory MPs, the Conservative (not his intemperate, malicious and offensive alternative appellation) Party, and those who, like myself, outvoted Labour supporters at the general election, would I think amply support my description of his more hysterical utterances.

As to my being abusive and aggressive, I vigorously dispute that.

I have made just one aggressive post that I can recall (and I'm not proud of having done so), in response to a direct and unwarranted personal attack by BTNG.

I have been at pains to explain the reasoning behind my stance, and this has been ignored by most posters on this thread, in favour of simply making unfounded accusations of delusion and lack of empathy.

If that is the level to which this discussion is descending, I wasted my time requesting that it be re-opened.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 05:47 PM

I would also like to emphasise, Al, that I share absolutely nothing with Gest Bluesman, whose prejudice is as foul as anything I've seen from RB.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Oct 11 - 06:13 PM

Okay Don. I'm sorry. I fully accept that there was no suggestion in your post of RB being clinically insane or rabid, merely that he displayed some of the more common symptoms.

My first post was without foundation in fact, and I hereby offer an unreserved and wholehearted apology.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:08 AM

Look, it's very simple. The avowed intent of the Labour party (or at least until Tony B. Liar) was to advantage the less advantaged. That of the conservative party was to retain advantage for the already advantaged. That's the core principle.

That's also why we see all the examples of snouts in the trough by conservatives, and outright attacks on the less advantaged by conservatives, that I draw together here. I don't really need to do much more than to draw the examples together.

I also don't think we need to discuss the reasons for this thread having been closed or being reopened.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:16 AM

Even accountants (hardly the most radical people) tell Os-bung he is getting it wrong:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/oct/20/accountancy-group-urges-osborne-to-ease-austerity

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:24 AM

NHS "reforms" under fire from pretty well everyone - spending £2.5 billion to save £2 billion and leave healthcare at the mercy of the market hardly looks like sense.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/oct/19/nhs-reform-bill-completely-unintelligible

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:30 AM

Now this looks as if Foxgate is getting even more dangerous for the bent conservatives - well done the Jewish Chronicle for breaking it.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/19/link-liam-fox-donors-tory

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 05:53 AM

no idea at all.....exercising his democratic right, maybe?

as for what would get us out of this mess into another space/time continuum. Piece of piss, Captain Kirk used to do it every week.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 07:03 AM

"The avowed intent of the Labour party (or at least until Tony B. Liar) was to advantage the less advantaged. That of the conservative party was to retain advantage for the already advantaged."

True(ish). But I believe that Labour lost the last election because people were fed up with Blairism (control freakery, empty rhetoric and hypocrisy on stilts!) and the Tories failed to get a majority because a significant (but still not large enough) proportion of the electorate had woken up to their true nature.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: theleveller
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 07:07 AM

"Has anyone any idea why Dickie is starting all these political threads ?"

I think it's called 'democracy' - not a concept you would understand.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 07:35 AM

Well, now, here's a suprise. All in this together, eh?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8838006/Councillors-award-themselves-25pc-pay-rise-despite-hundreds-of-job-cuts.html

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 10:55 AM

Not being in the UK, a lot of this talk needs a program to understand.

Is this table of the UK Parties 2010 General Election accurate? Would it allow non UKers to understand what the heck you're all talking about?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 11:05 AM

Dmocracy is a wonderful thing, you have the right to express your views openly, unfortunately it's a concept that some are unable to grasp.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 12:07 PM

""Look, it's very simple. The avowed intent of the Labour party (or at least until Tony B. Liar) was to advantage the less advantaged. That of the conservative party was to retain advantage for the already advantaged. That's the core principle.""

You and I have never heard in debate, or seen in print, the expression of a desire to further enrich the already rich, rather the opposite in fact.

That core principle is merely your ungenerous interpretation.

Has it never occurred to you that governments actually don't have the power to impoverish rich people to satisfy your envious desires. Wealth, of its nature, tends to create more wealth, largely resulting in an immunity to the ups and downs of economic climates.

If it were as easy as you claim to deal with taxing the rich, surely your preferred party had ample opportunity over thirteen years, and signally failed to do so, but I suspect that they had just enough common sense to realise that rich people and corporations paying some tax and creating employment for the party's core voters was slightly better than having them all bugger off abroad and pay nothing and create no jobs at all.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 02:01 PM

""Well, now, here's a suprise. All in this together, eh?""

Lousy timing indeed, and monumentally insensitive.

However, purely in the interests of truth (you've heard of that, I'm sure), it's worth mentioning that they have also voluntarily frozen their remuneration since 2003, and in their last review in 2006, decided to take no increase, and are now fllowing the recommendation of an independent review body.

I'm sure that, during those eight years of voluntary pay freeze, lower paid staff had no fewer than seven increases, and the cost of living rises just the same whether you are a councillor or a clerk.

It's always nice to have both sides of a story, don't you think?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 02:15 PM

""NHS "reforms" under fire from pretty well everyone - spending £2.5 billion to save £2 billion and leave healthcare at the mercy of the market hardly looks like sense.""

New Labour less than transparently sanctioned the purchase of private services by the NHS, at a 14% premium.

No comment from anyone.

Tories openly plan to do the same, but only on the understanding that those services are cheaper than in house.

Fury from all directions.

To save Richard the trouble, a news item on BBC Breakfast News today revealed that the NHS have been purchasing the services of private ambulance companies to move patients.

Of course the NHS has been doing that for the last three years.

As for comments about noses in the trough, I recall the New Labour MPs being rather more than well represented in that as well as in actual fraud.

For every dodgy Tory, there's a dodgy New Labourite, but I don't feel the need to concoct obscene names and descriptions when mentioning the fact.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 02:33 PM

""Not being in the UK, a lot of this talk needs a program to understand.""

Please don't take this the wrong way SRS, but this why we are now adding UK to our thread titles, so you don't have to bother with them, as we were asked to do.

Having said that, the table you refer to is vastly overcomplicated, but essentially close to the truth.

The Labour group 1972 and 1982 in the bottom left quadrant is Old Labour, and that in the upper right is New (Blairite) Labour.

Hope that helps a little, but you should definitely treat with extreme suspicion any claim that UK Tory (Conservative) is anything like your Republicans, or that Labour and Liberal Democrats are anything like your Democrats. Such comparisons are absolute nonsense, designed to attach Good Guy/Bad Guy labels, a tactic much beloved of certain anti Tory posters.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 02:54 PM

Well I think that chart is bullshit.

The roots of the Labour Party were in the educated working classes. The BNP appeals to the thickies and psychos of every political colour.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 03:28 PM

Actually I think that the chart is spot on. Note how the Labour and Conservative parties are both in the top right quadrant i.e. right wing/authoritarian - with Labour being MORE authoritarian than the Conservatives. I think that all Labour Party supporters should reflect on this - if they're able to reflect on anything - which I seriously doubt. They're too busy being sanctimonious and self-righteous - whilst, simultaneously, slavishly toeing the party line set by their right wing leaders.

The drift to the right by all parties, over the last few years, should worry us all.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,cujimmy
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 04:18 PM

Some Torys are nice people - ive met both of them

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 06:12 PM

"They're too busy being sanctimonious and self-righteous"

now that sounds familiar...oh right, some here on Mudcat

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:07 PM

Enrich the rich? Handsome is as handsome does.

Who opposes the 50% tax rate?

Do you know where the Parliament Acts came from?

Who wanted to remove estate duty/inheritance tax?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:19 PM

No, that table is not a fair representation of things. Broadly, conservatives believe that the lower orders should do as they are told, for the benefit of those in control. Broadly, labour believes that all, not just some, should be controlled by law for the benefit of society.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 09:00 PM

Disagree Richard. the Labour party has produced enlightened souls like Sydney Silverman - without whom we would be prepaing execution chambers like the Yanks.

Without Silverman we should have executed the Birmingham 6. Churchill said, grass grows over a battlefield, but not a scaffold. But he didn't do anything to improve the situation.

There has always been a patrician element in the Labour party based on respect for intellect.

The tories are rather embarassed by intellectuals - mainly cos theirs have really buggered them up - like keith Joseph, and his national curriculum - designed after never visiting a state school.

Poor old Thatch. very clever girl. spent eleven years posing as an idiot to please the silly hat brigade,

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 10:58 AM

""Some Torys are nice people - ive met both of them""

I can't remember us ever meeting Cujimmy. Where was that then?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 11:11 AM

""Broadly, labour believes that all, not just some, should be controlled by law for the benefit of society.""

Broadly bollocks, and totalitarian to boot, and the last time we heard that crap, it was from Josef Stalin. The last potential leader of the Labour Party, who believed in British style Socialism was John Smith, and he never got to try it out.

Since then Labour politicians have broadly believed in controlling everybody for the benefit of Labour politicians, and their best interests lay in pursuing a pseudo Tory course, and a bloody poor and ineffectual imitation at that.

Ed Milliband may have some pretensions to espouse the benefit of Society, but he is IMO an empty vessel, in a clay too thick to resonate at all well. He won't last, because they chose the wrong brother.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 11:47 AM

"Let them eat cake" Good God, Dickie this all sounds like we are living in the 17th century.

So Dickie, why not tell us what this country needs and where the money will come from to pay for it ????

All well and good your daily dose of slagging the current government,Labour made a horlicks out of it. So tell us what we need to do. No point in these daily horror stories you call upon in the media about somebody's granny getting fucked out of a care care home, or a single mother with five children who is murdered with piles and the ass is cut off her.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Musket
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 11:50 AM

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record...

What is the difference really?

Bridge reckons there are idealogical differences, although I recognise neither the "know your place" Tory bit nor indeed the rather sinister "controlled by law for the benefit of society" Labour bit.   Although being a solicitor of sorts, that means Bridge gets to tell us all what to do. Now we get to the crux of the matter....

But judging late 20th and 21st century actions, what is the difference? if you go further back, Tories are for the union of Great Britain at any cost and Labour are about shafting anybody who doesn't get their hands dirty for a living. Neither stereotype describes either party nor indeed either present day creed.

Out of interest, New Labour don't control by law, they control by regulation which is not exactly the same thing. To regulate is to allow due diligence and self determination with minimum expectations. That is the Labour way, and working these days as a regulator, I like the principle. As the present government seem to like it too, it doesn't say much for the "lower orders doing as they are told" bit. Who are the lower orders Richard? I'm not and neither are any of my friends. And some of them (shock horror) are poor by the standards of a patronising "professional."

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 11:52 AM

'e gets worse and worse don't 'e muvver, what's to be done, what's to be done, I say. put 'im out of 'is misery, you say? Good idea, but you can be taken away to the nick for doin' fings like that....

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 12:00 PM

I'm a lower order.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 12:36 PM

oim proud to be a member of the lower orders, oi 'ave a noice embossed card from the vicar say so too

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 02:20 PM

Lower paid staff had pay rises? Not in the council I work for. At least not for the last 3 years.   My council opted out of the cost of living pay for employees earning under £21,000. The performance pay contract for each employee goes through panel to decide if you fully met or exceeded objectives. Fully met gets you no increase in pay. Exceeds does. Guess what level was awarded fully met and what level received exceeds. Naturally those highest up in the organisation got their Exceeds on the backs of the staff who actually do the work.
And our councillors increased their pay last year, just before they approved the plan to dismantle as much non-statutory service as they can. But then it is almost wholly conservative council.
I should have gone out to the private sector from the start. I would have made more money. So much for wanting to be involved in meaningful work in public services. I am getting nothing but grief for it now and soon they will raid my gold plated pension, all £2450 of it, if I live long enough to be able to afford to retire.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 07:08 PM

We live in a world where there are (as there should be) laws. The conservatives always leave the rich with a way out. Labour (until B. Liar and the willowy Mandelbaum) at least tried to avoid that sort of inequality. And rightly so. The chants of "Stalin" are simply a matter of ignorance about the necessity for the rule of law to apply in a civilised society. Constitutional law 101.

But for tonight's "cream of the scum" award, again going to the conservatives (and not to the unfortunate claimants)


http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/oct/21/disability-groups-further-benefit-cuts

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 07:21 PM

"This week one startling piece of evidence stands out. Economist Cormac Hollingsworth, a former managing director at Kleinwort Benson, ... produced these figures: the extra £16bn in cuts imposed by Osborne's plan A have so chilled growth and employment that the deficit will only be cut by £3bn. All this suffering imposed on millions of lives has been for nothing much. For every £4 extra cut in spending, only 75p is wiped off the deficit, due to rising social security costs and falling tax receipts. This textbook proof of Keynes' "paradox of thrift" shows how during a depression the more you cut, the worse things get."

Told you so.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 08:51 PM

The private sector in many cases pays far more, money, but as odd as it may seem to some (naming no names) it's not always all about money, maybe you truly enjoy what you do and like the people you work with....just thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 22 Oct 11 - 04:28 AM

We know all this Dickie, you tell us daily. So what should the government do to get us out of this Labour mess ?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 22 Oct 11 - 12:55 PM

I do enjoy what I do and like the people I work with. That's a perk. More important to me, is supporting people who are providing a public service. The problem is I can't support myself on the pay if it does not rise with inflation and I will never be able to retire, because I won't be able to afford it.

I put in more than 37 hours a week, often up to 41 a week. I really don't mind it. There are others who put in more hours at less attractive work and are paid less. Carers, refuse workers, cleaners, etc. Old, young, and middle aged, we are all hurting. Yet Chief Execs can pay themselves over £250,000 and surround themselves with a coterie of staff all paid over £150,000 and still get bonuses because we underlings have fulfilled our contracts or the managers get disgusting pay offs when they fuck up. The director and corporate level of local authorities is rotten and overrun with the self- serving. The same people who are dismantling public services and selling them to the lowest bidder, are probably lining their stock portfolios with these new companies that sell the service back to the council.

We have broken contract with BT and taken up with IBM at a loss for IT services which have since been abysmal. We sold council owned care homes and services to a private company who botched it so bad (dying patients) we had to bring it all back in house. Yet they are selling it again. I won't go into the plans for schools. We have outsourced highways and brought it back in and tendered out so many times I can't count. Social services and libraries being restructured making them fit to outsource. The council can and will make statutory provision through private companies wherever it can. Somebody is making some money out of this.

Should private companies profit from your taxes?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Oct 11 - 08:17 PM

Excuse me Bluesman. It was the tories who gave up on us. Decided it just too difficult to figure out a way to keep our mining and heavy engineering, ship building, motorbike, most of the car, most of the steel, most of the manufacturing industries going. Massive mega unemployment. Scenes of Dickensian poverty. Beggars on the street and an endemic hard drug problem.

You remember - we were going to have the economy revived in a services led revival. The only part of the economy that has thrived has been the black economy - criminal enterprises - sometimes white collar, sometimes various mafias moving in on England like an uncut diamond. Even our major institutions seem to owned by international ruffians football team, banks , the bloody lot!

Every government (tory and Labour) since Thatcher has simply been sticking their fingers in the dike to try and mitigate the scale of the disaster, she and the selfish bastards voting for her brought about.

Labour mess, my arse!

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 22 Oct 11 - 09:16 PM

I don't work for the private sector, though if I did, I would twice, perhaps three times what I'm earning now, but the offset is, I like the people I work with and and enjoy my work. Oh, and no, the private sector should now nor ever profit from our taxes. Big business, banks etc, have long been a part of the education system here, I can remember when the first automatic banking machine was installed on a university campus, folk said that it would be all down hill from there, depending your point of view it is all downhill. the same uni's food service are, by and large, run by fast food outlets, McDonalds etc....

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Oct 11 - 09:30 PM

They said that about the condom machine at our college.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Oct 11 - 09:42 PM

I used to love coming home from the pub and seeing Brian Clough's teams beat everyone else on Match of the Day. And watch the Test Match, on the Beeb with sensible comments between the overs instead of adverts.

Before that bugger sold it all to Murdoch. That was the trouble that bugger with her shopping basket, she had no sense of what was important. Everything ordinary people liked, it had no value. Only a price, she could flog it off for.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Musket
Date: 23 Oct 11 - 11:47 AM

Been quiet in this debate for a while, thought I had said all I wanted to.

Just can't help pointing out something though.. Fully agree that there are not enough safeguards in the new Health Act and I fundamentally disagree with the GP knows best bit, as successive governments have tried to engage with them and got their fingers burnt.

However... to say this government is responsible for the £20 Billion savings (or cuts depending on your spin) is disingenuous to say the least. The savings, known in NHS circles as QUIPP (look it up if you must know) was announced by Andy Burnham about a year before the election.

One of the huge issues The NHS has with the new Act is that the £20 Billion savings are even less easy to achieve now the whole infrastructure is in turmoil. (I don't know why all the fuss about the new Act, all the consultation etc. They have been dismantling to the stage of being irreversible since well before the Lords passed it art week. ABout a year ago was the point of no return.

Not Tories, just politicians.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 23 Oct 11 - 01:21 PM

and there was Grandstand with David Coleman

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Oct 11 - 03:14 PM

Hang on! Wait for it!

(whingeing voice) It wasn't really the tories fault......

They take responsibility for NOTHING! Except the economy was in wonderful shape.....yeh and the schools hadn't had a lick of paint in years, no one had a job, and Rupert sodding Murdoch owned everything that wasn't screwed down, and several things that were....

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 23 Oct 11 - 03:24 PM

Murdoch owned the screws.....

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 05:49 AM

Meanwhile, today, in two new slaps in the face to millions, we learn that the government has been hiding plans to pass the buck on the NHS to a quango, apparently so that ministers will not have to face the music when things go wrong, and that Cameron plans to bring back Lord Young, the 79 year old peer who said only a year ago: -

"Recession, what recession?" and

"You've never had it so good".

And this nincompoop is to advise on business? You MUST be joking. Except that not one bit of it is funny.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 07:38 AM

That's a great title! Lord Young! Lord Sexy! Marquess Longhampton....

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Musket
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 10:01 AM

I don't like the idea of Ministers not being day to day accountable for The NHS, even if I do like the idea of less political short term interference for political rather than patient benefits.

But what quango has the government been hiding?

The National commissioning board has been set up in shadow for over a year, Sir David Nicholson was appointed chief executive about a year ago, the chairman was announced (after newspaper adverts inviting candidates to interview) last month and the whole of The NHS has been reorganising to accommodate it since the health bill was announced as a white paper.

If they have been hiding it, they made a crap job of it because every newspaper has been reporting on the implications of it since it started to take shape.

Anyway, I would have thought Bridge would be comfortable with it. After all, David Nicholson was a member of The British Communist Party many years ago.

This government can be questioned on enough facts without making up tales about them....

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 10:06 AM

""Excuse me Bluesman. It was the tories who gave up on us. Decided it just too difficult to figure out a way to keep our mining and heavy engineering, ship building, motorbike, most of the car, most of the steel, most of the manufacturing industries going. Massive mega unemployment. Scenes of Dickensian poverty. Beggars on the street and an endemic hard drug problem.""

God almighty Al.....Where do you get your history from?

The motorbike industry invested nothing in innovation and was still selling outdated machines based on pre war technology well into the mid sixties, when Honda decided to give the buying public a machine that was twentieth century. That wasn't the fault of any government. It was entirely down to the owners of the companies.

Triumph decided that bikers could just put up with having their boots sprayed with hot oil from rocker boxes (I know 'cos I rode one for five years. BSA made no real attempt to move on from the fifties, and relied on the "Gold Star" reputation. Norton produced a new machine which used up a set of big ends in 3000 - 6000 miles.

They gave the Japanese the industry.

As to the other stuff, we've been here before. British heavy industry autodestructed on the watch of Harold Wilson, in a fury of strikes, impossible pay claims and civil disobedience, which continued through the reign of the gutless Jim Callaghan. In 1979, what was left was well past saving without massive changes that the work force wouldn't accept. End of story.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 10:17 AM

Funny...I never had a problem with my '69 BSA A65 Lightning.
End of story

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 10:27 AM

""I used to love coming home from the pub and seeing Brian Clough's teams beat everyone else on Match of the Day. And watch the Test Match, on the Beeb with sensible comments between the overs instead of adverts.

Before that bugger sold it all to Murdoch. That was the trouble that bugger with her shopping basket, she had no sense of what was important. Everything ordinary people liked, it had no value. Only a price, she could flog it off for. ""

Enlighten us Al.

Just when did that "bugger" take control of the FA, the ICC, F1 management etc, so that she could sell them to Murdoch.

An interesting, if somewhat hysterical, theory, but I believe she was long gone when we lost test matches and half of F1, and I don't think she was ever on the board of the Football Association.

I too am incensed by the acquisition by Murdoch of what should be free-to-air, but I tend to target my anger at those who could actually have stopped it happening, and "that bugger" wasn't one of them.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 10:30 AM

'David Nicholson was a member of The British Communist Party many years ago.'

Back in those days Ian, Woodrow Wyatt was a left winger.

Didn't learn my history, Don - had the misfortune to live and work through it.

Would agree that management gave the industries away. And which party is the party of the bosses. I worked for British Leyland and never saw, an ununcooperative worker - but I saw dozens of shit management decisions.

As The Spycatcher debacle implied, the tory grandees were in power even when they weren't in office. Callaghan and Wilson did some good stuff. Comprehensive education as a stated aim. The Open University. Index linked benefits (soon done away withby her holiness, the tory saint).

But since Suez we've been so far up the USA's bum that even Wilson's mild disgreement over Vietnam was not tolerated by our Lords and Masters. Wilson was the last PM to have the balls to stand up to USA foreign policy - possibly the last of the 1945 patriots.
The US kicked the shit out of our economy for having such temerity and independence of spirit.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 10:47 AM

""Funny...I never had a problem with my '69 BSA A65 Lightning.""

Hardly qualifies as mid sixties BTNG, and another case of too little, too late.

By that time the advantages of Honda bikes were known, and in 1965 they were the largest producer of motorcycles in the world

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 10:58 AM

mid sixties, late sixties, fact is I never had a problem with it...mind you I never have had a problem with Honda or any other Japanese bike either

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 11:00 AM

""I worked for British Leyland and never saw, an ununcooperative worker - but I saw dozens of shit management decisions.""

How amusing!...........NOT!

You never saw an uncooperative worker in the company that bid fair to lose the world's largest number of days of production to lightning strikes.

And it was all due to those nasty old bosses wanting to employ one man to handle both nut and bolt, thereby putting one hardworking (though unnecessary and expensive) nut or bolt handler out of work.

A bit of tongue in cheek poetic licence there, but you know damn well that strikes were regularly called on equally nonsensical grounds.

And I wouldn't call striking for 40% pay increases in a firm that was always struggling to survive all that terribly cooperative either.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 11:02 AM

Wake up and smell the coffee Don. You think she got all that support for free! Like Blair after she paid the danegeld, saw Richard Attenboroughs company off. Course she did, and so did Major after her. Thus Murdoch was dancing round saying "WE did it" after the 1992 election. And he did it - all right. Even got that idiot Kinnock on film falling in the sea. He probably wrote all his stupid verbose speeches for him.....

My heart used to sink every morning when the today programme came on and there was Neil, " Would the Prime Minister agree that her policy is sexualised, sausalicious, and sacre de cristo...."

You can't fool me he thought up all that shit himself - no it was Murdoch and Thatcher. Satan and the Cacodemon.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 11:09 AM

""This government can be questioned on enough facts without making up tales about them....""

Now now Ian.

Richard Bridge is the Tweedledee (or is it Tweedledumb) of the legal eagles, and "Facts are whatever he wants them to be".

His stock in trade is using words to twist facts to his professional advantage, and the advantage of his client, innocent or guilty.

It must be a hard habit to break when off duty.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 11:13 AM

Al, I suppose you can explain how she sold test matches to Murdoch when New Labour were in power, and she wasn't connected with the ICC?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 11:40 AM

She and the interests she represents are NEVER out of power.

Grasp this and you have you are beginning to undertand the situation. The democracy is purely cosmetic. The Spycatcher case made it very clear that the intelligence services in this country call the shots.

So what does Blair do when he gets elected after all those years of rule by right wing ideologues. Does he clean out the Augean stables of the MI5 and MI6? Does he reform a voting system that has returned a party that has vandalised our society?

Not a bit of it. Meet the new boss.....

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 03:30 AM

Remember the tax amnesty on tax fraud money hidden by rich bastards in Switzerland? The one that was going to get £7 bn (out of estimated £ 20 bn owed) back for the UK tax net. Looks like it isn't working, the rich bastards get off scot free and the UK gets nothing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/oct/25/swiss-tax-deal-uk


Told you so at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 03:32 AM

Remember the riots that were caused by gangs and foreigners, not poverty?

Or so evil tory bigots said. They were wrong. The truth here.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/official-cabinet-ministers-wrong-about-cause-of-riots-2375515.html

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 03:36 AM

The rich can still get educations.

Woe betide teh poor.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-15430189

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 03:39 AM

Bankers trouser bonusses - society pays, warns Bank of England expert

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 03:45 AM

Government fails to supervise outsourced police functions

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 03:49 AM

International capitalism wants 16 hr days, poor pay, and penalties for unions

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 03:52 AM

Open justice threatened by CIA lobbying

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Musket
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 03:56 AM

Never knew you were an aficionado of The Voice of Reason Al!

Woodrow Wyatt, that takes me back.

It takes me back to when I was young, impressionable and all the evils of the world could be thrown at the door of a target. Th*tcher was in power, so the target wasn't too hard to find. The Voice of Reason was in the same newspaper that gave most football coverage so no problems picking up a copy at work and allowing me to fume in my sanctimonious way. Oh, and what with Red Wedge being popular, I had no problems getting gigs at political events, singing songs of oppression and class warfare.

All good stuff.

Till my balls dropped.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 05:05 AM

200

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Musket
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 05:13 AM

I love your more factual contributions....

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 05:37 AM

By that time I was a full time muso, with a disabled wife. So i was getting sneered at by Peter lilly with his parodies of Gilbert and Sullivan, at Tory party conferences.

You don't frighten me Ian, I've been sneered at by professionals.

I couldn't go on tour and leave my wife, she got bundled into the car and had to sat there while I played Merle Haggard (okie from from Muskogee - right wing crap) to pay for weekly shopping. I would have envied your red wedge audiences at the time - no one ever invited me.

Steven Wells (Seething Wells in NME) wanted to put my song about the Hitler Diaries ("Hold On Eva! You'll have to Wait!/I'm not doing nuthin', til I get me diary up to date") on a cassette with Billy Bragg and the Redskins and someone else. Nothing ever came of it though. Perhaps that's the one that would have catapulted me to stardom. We'll never know. Quelle dommage!

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 06:36 AM

Well, we have a long long list of conservative disasters on this thread.

Can anyone point to a success? Don't start with deficit reduction, the skids are under that too as the economy is now officially shrinking thanks to Osbung. Told you so.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 06:38 AM

well they got rid of Brown.....

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 06:51 AM

Well the good news is, David Cameron is running the country. Live with it and lump it.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 07:09 AM

The bad news is the tories have already laid their plans for when the wheels come off the cart. He wasn't right wing, nasty, euro sceptic enough, - not like St.Maggie.

Would that Labour were so prepared.....!

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 08:11 AM

WTF is a 'trouser bonus', and why do only bankers get it?   :-0

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 09:59 AM

After bombarding us with a million and one reasons for 'disliking' Tories, Mr Bridge, what are you personally doing to get rid of them? Apart, that is from inundating us with their misdeeds - which will achieve f**k all!

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 10:30 AM

GUEST,Bluesman free speech is here to stay, Live with it and lump it.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Musket
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 12:20 PM

I've been sneered at by professionals too. Interestingly, those on the right reckon I am a socialist whinger and those on the left reckon I am a capitalist lackey, so the old chips keep my shoulders in balance if nothing else.

Mind you, don't get me into a cold gravel discussion. Been there, got the T shirt. Did I share a stage with Tony Benn in 1984 for purist political reasons or did the £300.00 I got motivate me? Well, being on strike with a baby, I soon got to learn a few "eat the rich" songs. Altruism pays, just ask Bono.

Bridge asks what the Romans ever did for us?

Too easy.

I don't share the Tory outlook but I respect the millions who do. Or at least, I respect their fear of the alternative. I also respect the millions who prefer a Labour outlook. I generally share it in fact. But can you imagine what it would be like if a site such as this ran threads for rich dudes on the subject of hating anybody who disagrees with them?

Tory? Labour? Liberal? You might as well say guitarist, banjo player and fiddle player. They combine to make music but any one of them can start playing out of tune. (Usually the ruddy banjo, but I digress.)

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 12:26 PM

Tories tend to be accordion players and only know one tune....discuss

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 06:52 PM

Shepherds Hay

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 07:17 PM

Al, "Oh Yes You're Beautiful" was in the charts in November 1974.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 07:22 PM

Oh Yes You're Beautiful was obviously not Trad. Arr.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 07:25 PM

"WTF is a 'trouser bonus', and why do only bankers get it?"

well they wear the knees out on a very regular basis, so.....

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 07:36 PM

Sack the old AND raise the retirement age. Mmmmmm!


Oh, and looking above - I see no-one (with one exception, which kind of sums it up) can think of anything the present government is doing right.


Keep reading - you may learn something.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 05:00 AM

I told you so.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cameron-tries-to-buy-off-eurosceptics-with-threat-to-employment-rights-2375997.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 05:06 AM

Costly carrots for bankers - the stick for the rest of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 06:06 AM

'have you fuck all else to do ? '

obviously not, I'm starting to wonder about the rest of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: MikeL2
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 06:10 AM

hi Ian

<" I don't share the Tory outlook but I respect the millions who do. Or at least, I respect their fear of the alternative. I also respect the millions who prefer a Labour outlook. I generally share it in fact. But can you imagine what it would be like if a site such as this ran threads for rich dudes on the subject of hating anybody who disagrees with them?">

I am with you here. You have described almost perfectly my political views.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 09:35 AM

Dickie, you need help or a hobby,

Just as this thread seems ready to sink below the line, Bluesman comes along, says something insulting to Richard, and complains about the thread. It seems to me he doesn't want it to go away, he wants to argue, and he's pushing buttons to keep it going.

If you truly don't like any thread here, the best response is to ignore it. The behavior you're exhibiting is troll-like.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 05:57 PM

OUCH!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/26/donor-liam-fox-defence-lobbyist-stephen-crouch

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 06:54 PM

I voted Conservative. Britain was in a mess and Labour wanted to spend their way out of it. It was like a lady addicted to shopping, her bank statement told her she can't afford to go shopping, but she still goes on doing it, thanks to her credit cards. Result, her finances end up in a mess.

The only course of action is to STOP spending, and sell off some of her jewellery on ebay.

I have asked Bridge what he would do to resolve the problems this country faces. He still refuses to answer, he responds with silly cut and paste crap and boring links to newspaper articles that nobody can be bothered to open.

Anybody that goes to school in a yellow bus, knows that we need to cut back on public spending, make people who abuse benefits understand that they are for those who need them, not the lazy, workshy or teenage girls who go out to get pregnant just to get a home without rent, mortgage or council tax. All we hear is about poverty, poor people on benefits. Poor my ass, get on your bike and look a job you lazy leeching bastards.

I support the coalition government, I await to hear what alternative Bridge has to offer besides starting more boring threads, thankfully, elfs close most of them down.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 07:00 PM

the elves, not elfs...yeesh..need to close something else as well

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 09:05 PM

Bluesman you are wrong.

This bollocks is what took England deeper into the mire, Economics is not like the weekly shop. Thatcher lied to you on that point and many more. That's why the green shoots of recovery never happened. Thats why service led recovery never transpires. She lied to you.

That simple. If someone says, your mining and the attendant engineering industry is worth nothibng or at best fourpence. They are lying to you. Similarly with the steel industry. the shipbuilding industry, The motorbike industry. They are lying. You were silly to believe her.

Now confess to your idiocy. For all Richard's nutty additions to Mudcat. He has (at least) ten times your cerebral power.

In short, you are voting for rich assholes who have figured you out as a snob, with nothing to be snobbish about.

Just go away, get an education, Come back in about three years and say you're sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 09:09 PM

as odd as R. Bridge can get (in a nice way), as Al says, when put next to you, he's a genius, sooooo..sonny, you really don't have a whole lot to brag about, do you?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 04:47 AM

Well, the reality is, David Cameron is running the country. I feel he is doing a great job. The lovely thing about all this is, it gets right up your nose !

It really must get to people like Bridge, do you honestly think David Cameron reads the sh 1 t he posts here ? I have to say, I enjoy reading his frustration.


The Conservative party remind me of a pension assessment board looking into the case of some overweight chancer with a dodgy ticker trying to work his ticket. They don't suffer fools gladly. They are also sharp enough to know that looking at the physical condition of the chancer, that most likely he will experience a gripping pain in the chest and join the night shift, sooner rather than later, hence resolving a problem leaving everyone happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 05:08 AM

"I voted Conservative. Britain was in a mess and Labour wanted to spend their way out of it."

Face it, Bluesman, Big Al has correctly identified you as a snob - and that's why you really voted Tory. You have decided that certain sections of the population are 'inferior' to you and you have decided that they need to be punished for their 'inferiority'. You believe that the Tory party is the party which is most likely to punish your 'inferiors' with the degree of severity that you demand.

And what happens after your 'inferiors' have been chastised, Bluesman? Surprisingly, perhaps, I tend to agree with you that the dependency culture that has been created in the last few years is problematic. But it was created by a toxic combination of the stupid political ideologies of both Right and Left, and punishing the victims of welfare dependecy won't achieve anything - except dangerous social unrest.

Labour was at fault because they are smug and self-satisfied authoritarians who think that they know what is best for the poor.

The Tories were at fault because they are addicted to the 'Free Market','Choice' and 'Self-Regulation'. In other words the rich should be free to choose to get richer, and richer and richer at the expense of the rest of society. Again, Big Al has correctly pointed out that these toxic notions led to the death of British Industry and mass unemployment - or rather 'real' jobs, with decent pay and conditions, have been replaced by a few poorly paid, exploitative 'McJobs' with few prospects for advancement.

The answer to our problems is not to punish the poor but to start to hold our elected representatives to account for their actions. And that means being much more critical of their stupid 'theories' and ideologies.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 05:28 AM

So, what party could do a better job running the country ?

People love to attack those who have been rewarded in life with a salary fitting the job they do. I call it jealousy. How are companies expected to hire the right people if they don't reward them financially ?

Labour created a benefit dependant society. Lazy workshy slobs who drink beer all day in some stinking flat which is rent and council tax free and just loves to complain about their standard of living. Go look a job and stop leeching of the rest of us.

Well, the good news is, David has committed himself to reform. Leeches will see their benefits cut and hopefully stopped. Grants and funding to crackpot left wing social projects are to stop. Education and health will also benefit from an overhaul.

Well, check your morning papers, David is still in charge. Now that pleases me.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 05:38 AM

'David is still in charge. Now that pleases me. '

David....first name terms now. I can see how it would please you, and I'm so glad he's not stuck up, and one of the lads.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 06:02 AM

Oh dear, clearly you would like him to be a beer swilling oaf with a 40 inch waistband who farts in company and gets a laugh from the lads.
Hail fellow well met.

So what exactly is your problem with him being a clean cut well educated successful young chappie ?

Always easier to attempt to bring people down to your level than achieve theirs. Sour and grapes come to mind. A few less fish suppers would be a start.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 06:05 AM

Farts aren't the only thing that stink.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 06:34 AM

"People love to attack those who have been rewarded in life with a salary fitting the job they do. I call it jealousy. How are companies expected to hire the right people if they don't reward them financially ?"

But, Bluesman, companies (like banks, for example) don't seem to have been hiring the "right people", do they? Because, if they had, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now, would we? In addition the more the incompetents at the top are rewarded, the worse the situation seems to get.

You want to punish the poor for their poverty (come on, admit it!). But the real reason they are poor is because the rich are selfishly 'trousering' as much wealth as possible rather than creating real jobs for everyone else; it suits them to allow the poor to languish on welfare. The attention of snobs like you is easily diverted by hysteria about 'welfare dependency' and while you and your fellow 'Torygraph' readers rant and rave the rich are free to plunder the planet and rob you, and everyone else, blind!

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 06:43 AM

"Labour created a benefit dependant society. Lazy workshy slobs who drink beer all day in some stinking flat which is rent and council tax free and just loves to complain about their standard of living. Go look a job and stop leeching of the rest of us."

I only work 40-45 hours a week on, so I must be lazy and workshy. DO I need to get a night job and pay more taxes so that my overpaid betters can get the tax cut they richly deservwe?

I am about a kilo overweight, so I must be a slob? MAybe I should change myudiet to bread and water so that I amless than half the woeght of the literal fat cats who binge on caviar......

I live in a flat, sorry, but it does not stink.

I get 25% council tax benefit when I am in singler occupancy (£30/momnth) so I must be a leech - maybe I should donate this to the poor people who have to pay tax on million pouind plus inheretances?

An yes - I do support Labour, and yes, I do complain about my eroded standard of living?

Oh I forgot, I do enjoy one or two pints on a Friday evening, so I must be swilling beer all day.....

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 06:59 AM

Labour done a lot for you then.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 07:20 AM

"Labour done a lot for you then."

It's good to see you keeping up your usual level of cogent political analysis, Bluesman!

And it's no good apealling for sympathy or understanding, SPB-Cooperator. You see he's suffering from a severe case of inflammation of the empathy gland (the technical term is 'Tebbititis') We've seen a lot more cases since fore-lock tugging went out of fashion - especially among rampant snobs and Tories.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 09:15 AM

I worked hard of my life, I worked with my hands, I wasn't an educated man as you may have noticed. I gave a fair wage for a fair days work. All of those who worked for me had regular employment and stayed with me for many years.

I have now retired, I have two private pensions, income from property and live a comfortable lifestyle. Because of that, I am probably a hate figure to some of you that didn't provide for your future or pull strokes to obtain ill health pensions under false pretences. Do I give a toss ? No.

Your jealousy of those who worked hard is dripping out of you. You listen to daily rants from someone who simply never made it in life and look upon him as the saviour of the working class when in fact he wanted the lifestyle, recognition and praise. The fact is, he never achieved anything.

Do I have faith in a Conservative government, yes. They care, provide and reward those who work for a living and dismiss freeloaders.

Enjoy your daily dose of his twisted facts, I hope they depress you, as for me, loving life and living it to the full with the means to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 09:37 AM

"The fact is, he never achieved anything"

Do you know him personally?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 10:36 AM

"I am probably a hate figure to some of you ... Your jealousy of those who worked hard is dripping out of you."

You rather miss the point, Bluesman. I, personally, am not jealous of anyone. Like you, I'm retired on a private pension. I receive enough to fulfil my needs - although not necessarily my 'wants'! Nevertheless, I am now rich in time - and that will do for me.

Oh, and by the way - I prefer not to drone on about how hard I worked - I did my share and I've got nothing to be ashamed of.

In addition, I certainly don't hate you but I do think that you need to develop a more rounded view of politics. Dwelling obsessively on welfare dependence (given that it probably does need to be re-examined) is not healthy and I still think that you're probably a snob. But then, as I have said above, dwelling obsessively on the misdeeds of one party, while studiously ignoring the faults of the opposition, isn't healthy either.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 10:45 AM

One question, GUEST Bluesman. Have you now, or ever, served in Her Majesties fighting forces, and if so, in what capacity?

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 11:05 AM

Has this thread run its course? Drawing caricatures of other mudcat participants - who have never met - doesn't seem a productive use of all of that time you now have in retirement.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 11:43 AM

Precisely why I asked if Bluesman knew Richard personally, SRS.

I don't know him personally either, nor do I share his politics, but I have respect for him as a member of this forum, and based on what I have heard about him from other members.

It's a shame but it always seems to be the Brits who stink up the forum. Makes me ashamed to be a Brit sometimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 02:52 PM

I am not getting into silly games with you, my past life has nothing to do with you or this thread, keep it on track.
No drifting please Felix.

Thank you

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 07:00 PM

Sorry if you feel I mocked you. Nobody gets the edge of my mockery more than myself. You would know that if you had checked out my music.

Occasionally i forget there's some sensitive souls like yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 08:34 PM

On reflection Bluesman, I am deeply sorry for you and sorry that I called you a turd. You are so unpleasant and insulting to people you don't know, I can only presume that you are lashing out because you're hurting somewhere deep and secret inside.

The children who died in Auschwitz - did they not have bad luck? In my choice of a life partner and earning my living as a musician and entertainer - did I not have good luck? It sounds to sense that all degrees of humanity have all sorts of luck. Did my wife not have bad luck, getting the rheumatoid arthritis that crippled her at the age of twenty six?

I don't know your story, but I sense something awful must have occurred to you, to be so embittered and hurtful. And if I'm right, I'm really sorry for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 05:38 AM

No, this thread has not run its course. It will not have run its course until people see the conservatives for what they are - and the fake Bluesman - for what they are.

Bluesman does not deserve breath. His "debating" tactics when compared with others in the past clearly link him to what has gone, in certain senses, before.

This thread will not have run its course until the rubbish he spews out is recognised as rubbish - like the conservative philosophy. His suggestion that the conservatives "care" for anyone is a conjuration. Their latest initiatives are apparently aimed at the destruction of workers' rights, based on a mischaracterisation of what those rights are, and allegedly to serve capital not the workers. It would do far more to reduce the deficit if tax evasion was clamped down on, if tax avoidance was properly planned round (I have suggested ways on here before) - if the same rules were applied to assets possibly derived from tax fudges as to assets possibly derived from crime - that is to say that the assetholder had to prove that it was legitimately acquired.

This government does not assert that tax fraud impoverishes the state, so tax must be abolished (although I hesitate to give them the idea), but they do say that benefit fraud (which is small in comparison) does impoverish the state, so benefits must be abolished. Apologists for this government say that it is not right to tar all conservatives with the same brush - but produce a stream of propaganda doing that and more about benefit recipients.

What we have is one law for the super-rich - even the middle classes cannot afford to go to court - and another for the rest. To build, to rescue, a "society" that must change.

And in the meantime another example of stealing from the poor to benefit the rich - and tear up Cameron's figleaf of "the big society" which in reality was no more than a disguise for the evasion by government of its responsibilities by leaving them to others, to volunteers can be found here:

http://www.lep.co.uk/news/local/big_society_is_not_working_1_3915044

This government is evil. Government by the rich for the rich. Any tiny thing I can do to make people realise is a positive thing.


People, wake up for your own sakes.

And, incidentally, as an Englishman I find the assertion that it is "Brits who stink up the forum" unmeritorious. Politics is a legitimate field of discussion. The stink comes from the self-interest in government, and from the prejudice of the lunatic right and their campaigns of impersonation. That is not a matter of being English, but of who and what they are.


I would also remind you that I did in my opening post draw attention to the US site "Nobody likes a Republican" - but I fear it looks as if the USA is too cowed now to put the boot (metaphorically) into the right, where it belongs.

I'll find you some more examples of conservative wrongdoing shortly.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 05:42 AM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8855776/Conservative-MP-take-five-star-junket-to-Equatorial-Guinea.html


Conservatives with snouts in the trough involved in whitewashing another oil-rich dictatorship.

Par for the course.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 05:45 AM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/28/bbc-accused-anti-welfare-stance

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 05:50 AM

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-voices-concern-at-directors-pay-2377147.html


"Concern"? The rest of us are outraged. This is what he set in motion. It beggared America and it will beggar us. If it were the poor helping themselves to a 49% increase (directors and CEOs of course have a large hand in setting their own pay levels despite the Greenbury report) Cameron would be sending in the riot police with at least rubber bullets.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 05:51 AM

Tory lobbying to help the rich

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/28/boris-johnson-reject-transaction-tax

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 05:56 AM

Media propaganda against "Occupy London" demos

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/10/thermal-imaging-empty-tents


Which paper was most into that tissue of falsehood? The Mail.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 06:02 AM

Perhaps White man would like to tell us which of these crippled elderly people are benefit scroungers.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/oct/28/elderly-social-care-funding-cuts

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 06:22 AM

Oh, and the milk-snatcher's snout in the trough too: -

thread.cfm?threadid=141127&messages=8

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 06:47 AM

Ask yourself, where is all this going. I personally have no doubt you are correct, but whats all this about. You will make yourself ill if you persist with all this stuff - if you are not ill already.

Sitting at a computer dwelling on all the bad things about our country is very depressing. Its not good for you - take my word, I have a good friend who has turned his life into a miasma of conspiracy theories.

We are of an age when we have to try and capitalise on the few good things about our life. And believe you me, as the years pile up, they get less and less.

Cool it Richard.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 06:58 AM

"And, incidentally, as an Englishman I find the assertion that it is "Brits who stink up the forum" unmeritorious. Politics is a legitimate field of discussion. The stink comes from the self-interest in government, and from the prejudice of the lunatic right and their campaigns of impersonation. That is not a matter of being English, but of who and what they are."

If you withdrew your cranium from your rectum, stopped preaching, and read what I said properly, you would perhaps realise that it was the likes of Bluesman who stink up the forum that I was referring to, Richard, and that I was in fact defending you.

But as you chose to throw that support back in my face, I heartily invite you to Foxtrot Oscar.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 07:21 AM

Oh look - a plan to finish off council housing for ever - -

http://www.24dash.com/news/housing/2011-10-27-rtb

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 09:21 AM

Backwoodsman - you said "Brits". I am.

No, Al, I'm not ill - but the country is going to be very sick and the Con-Dems have to be exposed if they are going to be stopped at the next election - since the very first thing they did on assuming office was to try to block attempts to remove them and truncate the Parliamentary term by a vote of no confidence.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 09:29 AM

Al, I'm with Richard on this one. We are now heading into some very dark times. We *will* come out the other side, hopefully with a new way of life having been born, but this is not the time to turn away and pretend it's not happening...

We are facing things now that we have never faced before, not just politically and financially, but environmentally as well.

IF we choose to turn away at this point in time, then we do so at our own Peril, literally, for that is how bad things now are.

This is no conspiracy theory, and trust me, I wish everything in the garden WERE rosy, but it's far from that.

Yes, we *can* shut down, live in our own little bubble, cut the grass, drink tea and biccis and keep calm and carry on...but there are many out here now who have woken up to what lies ahead..and it ain't good.

The Corporate Bastards are scared witless, even whilst they are, at present, so cushioned from the fall to come...but when the shit REALLY hits the fan, and it will, very shortly, they will have no place to hide...

It's good to let others know what's going on, it's good to get people fuelled up with anger, because Apathy is what has brought us to this point in the first place.....

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 11:16 AM

What is happening to this forum, where are Richard's 26 daily post's ? Yes there is unfinished business, In time Al, all in good time.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Oct 11 - 12:39 PM

For Godsake Bluesman - get help!

In Kirkby in Asfield near where I used to live - there was this old man who seemed to hang around the area of the Cop-op. He had a miserable looking dog in a pram, dressed in rags, shouted nonsense, wore a great coat and carpet slippers and always seemed to be eating a pasty. You are the internet equivalent of this guy. Everybody looked at him and wondered why there was nobody to help him, calm his troubled soul, whatever.

Your posts affect people the same way. People are reading them with pity. Plus its a bit worrying that someone who seems to have nothing but hatred for people he has never met is out there on the streets.

I don't understand Richard. But with you....I'm sorry, but you're a bit scary.....

'In time Al, all in good time......'

I take it my name is on 'the list'. Don't tell him Pike!

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 01:59 AM

"Backwoodsman - you said "Brits". I am"

Didn't they teach you anything about English Comprehension at that poncy, overprivileged public school Richard? Your wilful, deliberate misinterpretation of my words speaks volumes for the debating tactics of members of the legal profession - dubious, to say the very least.

If I'd meant you, I'd have named you in the first place, instead I said that you had my respect. In the face of your puerile response, that respect has faded rather more than somewhat.

Here's a test for you - dogs have four legs, are all animals with four legs dogs? (Hint...the answer isn't "Yes", even though a lawyer might argue that it is).

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 03:55 AM

Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes, we get it, we understand the problems, Mr Bridge!! NOW GIVE US SOME SOLUTIONS!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 06:12 AM

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/cameron-has-broken-castiron-pledge-to-protect-the-nhs-of

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 06:14 AM

100 leading economists tell Osborne he needs Plan B NOW.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/29/george-osborne-plan-b-economy

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 06:17 AM

"Richard is an anguished man, who grieves and misses something in his life."

I believe, josepp, that this is an overly dramatic interpretation of the situation. A more likely explanation is that Mr Bridge is a member of the British Labour Party. This was once a proud Left Wing organisation which could truly be said to represent ordinary British people. Rank-and-file members of this party still cling to the belief that it still is such an organisation (with increasingly fanatical fervour). Meanwhile their party has drifted further and further to the Right and become more and more authoritarian; there is no-one more self-righteous than a British Labour Party member (this applies both to the rank-and-file and to the leadership).

In 1997, after many years of Tory misrule, the Labour Party won a landslide victory under Tony Blair. We then had 13 years of Labour rule - first under Blair, then under Brown. Did the Labour Party in power do anything significant to reverse the ruinous changes wrought by previous Tory administrations? No, they didn't, but continued the rightward drift and tacked on lots of silly 'social engineering'. The present administration is just more of the same but a bit more vicious with some slightly less silly social engineering.

Do Labour Party members ever listen to anyone or accept any criticism? No - just as Mr Bridge won't take this seriously and will probably not even respond to it. He's right, he thinks he's absolutely and unassailably right and he will continue to ram his anti-Tory message down our throats whether by doing so he achieves anything or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 06:27 AM

Thank goodness for private schools and private medicine if it's all the same to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:28 AM

Primitive Tribesman, you said "the Brits".   If you has said "some Brits", you would have a better chance of asserting that you said what, it now seems, you meant.

I am not in fact a member of the Labour Party (although I am a member of UCU, and of course the Law Society). I did consider joining the Labour Party but then they removed Clause 4 from the constitution.   Incidentally I have thrice been approached by various right-wing parties to serve them or stand for them - presumably on the basis that I have a tolerable house so must be right wing, and/or that I am a vocal critic of the idiocies of our masters which art in Brussells, which is mistaken for an opposition to the EU which, on balance, I favour. I have naturally sent them packing.

What I see very clearly is that the present coalition, dominated by its right wing, is not merely wrong but evil - indeed there are hints of a return to Section 28, simply by way of illustration. Our immediate need is the lesser of two evils, while we try to construct a political system that seeks to serve all - from each according to their means, to each according to their needs.

The losses to the country (and I mean country, for large chunks of the money in question go abroad) from the parasitism of the rich far exceed the losses to the exchequer (but not to the country for the poor spend and hide far less abroad than the rich) from the opportunism of the poor.

We need to get rid of this government. Anything (apart from nut-houses like those that are not mentioned or UKIP) would be an improvement. We need that now and we can't wait until the left is perfect. It is better, right now, despite the venality of Tony B.Liar. Then the system needs fixing so that wealth does not give an electoral advantage (right-wing conservatives are expected to block reform of the funding of political parties to per-vote centralised funding).

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:33 AM

'there is no-one more self-righteous than a British Labour Party member'

I can think of some pretty heavy competition.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:49 AM

Thank you for your answer, Richard.

The only way forward that I can see (apart from the emergence of a truly popular and competent left wing party) is root-and-branch reform of the Labour Party. At the moment I despise that shower of self-righteous, hypocritical shites and will not vote for them again in their present form. It is they who lost the last election - and let the Tories in again (it's truly lucky for us all that they didn't get an overall majority).

I suspect that the LP can only be reformed by their rank-and-file. But they're all still fantasising about being noble, horny-handed sons and daughters of toil (in site of the fact that most of them are teachers, chartered accountants etc.) whilst letting the likes of Blair, Mandelson, Brown et al. walk all over them. I have a horrible feeling that the LP actually LIKE being in opposition - especially in opposition to a rabid, right-wing Tory government. Then they can come all over self-righteous and censorious without actually having to do anything sensible.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 08:08 AM

While you may feel like that about the Labour Party in its present form, it's still better (or maybe I should say "less bad") than the conservatives and the opportunist lib dems propping them up.   

If we keep publicising conservative wrongdoing maybe enough people will eventually get the point.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 08:12 AM

There are only perhaps a dozen of you on this site - do you really think you will make a difference??

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 08:33 AM

At least my LibDem MP listens. He's very willing to engage in dialogue and sends me considered replies to any letters I write to him (I write to him on some of the things that you complain about, Richard - and others which are of concern to me). I genuinely believe that he doesn't see me as some sort of 'nutter' but as someone who is public spirited and with a valid point of view.

By contrast the local Labour councillors send bland, standardised replies to my letters and one of them even 'blanks' me in the street because she knows that I don't support her party. It's not just me who has had problems with our Labour dominated council. A highly knowledgeable and articulate member of our local Civic Society has finally given up talking to them because he says that they're like an impenetrable brick wall and he's now got a flattened forehead! So much for democracy!

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 09:16 AM

Ah, in place of the wonderful and very approachable Bob Marshall-Andrews I now suffer the hack Mark Reckless who sends me government line standard replies but has now revealed himself as part of the "Wogs begin at Calais" brigade.

Bozo - here those who reject your school of thought outnumber you many to one. Any one who derives extra ammunition from the links I provide may pass the word along, and so on.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 09:51 AM

Maybe Bozo likes the withdrawal of help from domestic violence victims.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/oct/30/female-domestic-violence-victims-lose-out-in-legal-reforms

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 10:53 AM

According to the likes of Bozo the Clown, there is no such thing as domestic violence, therefore no need for shelters for battered women.

Up the ruling classes eh Bozo? LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 07:39 AM

Very disappointed to find no mention of the government resigning on Yahoo.

I feel misled, josepp.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 08:47 AM

"Primitive Tribesman, you said "the Brits".   If you has said "some Brits", you would have a better chance of asserting that you said what, it now seems, you meant."

Richard Cranium (you started the name calling), FFS Give It Up! You mis-read, mis-understood, opened that big trap before you connected it to your brain. YOU LOST.

Get over it.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Musket
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 08:50 AM

Mmmm... Lots of examples of government ideas not being in the best interest of lots of people, some of it rather worrying in fact.

But nothing as worrying as Bridge saying a forum member is not worthy of breath... Even if I reckon Bluesman is having a laugh to get a reaction, or even if he believes what he writes, either way, he is worthy of breath surely?

You know Bridge, politics in The UK is either about governing on behalf of everybody in the country or it is nothing. Notwithstanding that you spout out issues, normally out of context, without offering alternatives, but if you want to talk about running the country, you have to accommodate the millions of people who are aimed in your hate sights.

Running a country is for everyone, even overpaid bankers and solicitors....

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 07:47 PM

""You know Bridge, politics in The UK is either about governing on behalf of everybody in the country or it is nothing.""

For God's sake Ian, don't tell him that. You'll send him into a morbid decline.

I RB had any say in the government of this country (fortunately unlikely) he'd make Ghadaffi and Hussein look like a couple of choirboys.

I wouldn't give twopence for the chance of continued existence for anybody who could be shown ever to have voted Conservative.

There is nothing so rigidly biased as the political mindset of a champagne socialist. They are the ones who always wind up running the Commissariat, or Politburo, in Communist countries.

""All men are equal, except us Commissars""

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 07:53 PM

Up The Ruling Classes Eh...? or toadying to the local squire or doing as your told

divers remarks on the poor and the poor knowing their place in society

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 08:37 PM

""Up The Ruling Classes Eh...? or toadying to the local squire or doing as your told

divers remarks on the poor and the poor knowing their place in society""

Neither mate!

Just pointing out that the ruling classes will be skimming off the cream, whichever side they are on.

You don't really think that Stalin had the same lifestyle as the serfs toiling through his ten year plans, do you?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 09:29 PM

Stalin's father was a bootmaker and his mother took in washing

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 10:12 PM

Hey, Al Capone came from humble beginnings too! A humble origin does not guarantee a humble role later in life...nor does it guarantee compassion for the working classes.

In any case, Don W was referring to Stalin's lifestyle when he was in power as dictator of the Soviet Union, not the lifestyle of his family when he was a youngster.

Ruthless dictators can emerge from the working class OR the middle class OR the aristocracy...it's a matter of individual temperament, not of class origin. You don't get an automatic "good guy" ticket just by being born into one class or another.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 10:15 PM

was he, then perhaps he should made himself clearer.
You state the obvious with absolute clarity, amazing

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 06:17 AM

Primitive Tribesman, if you could read English it might be more worth debating with you - or pointing out your errors - but you either cannot or will not understand.

Meanwhile, the New York Times savages Cameron's abiities, and some ot the comments there are pretty good too

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/31/camerons-fantasy/

BTNG - you are an enigma - one day one side of the divide, another on the other. This time you seem to be correct. Don, you see, believes that he has been better off under conservative governments than otherwise, and is therefore grateful for their wisdom and leadership.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 06:18 AM

When thieves fall out...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15532131

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 06:21 AM

Academies will damage the wider education system

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/oct/31/academies-costs-for-maintained-schools

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 06:27 AM

Major growth slowdown (from terrible to worse).

Where's plan B?

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/elmr/gdp-and-the-labour-market/2011-q3---october-gdp-update/sch-gdp-and-the-labour-market.html

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 07:15 AM

Unto him that hath shall be given

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/2011/11/01/tory-donors-jcb-given-slice-of-950m-growth-fund-115875-23529052/#.Tq-SniooRjE.f

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 07:17 AM

Too little, too late


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2055626/Nick-Cleggs-1-4bn-growth-fund-helped-just-7-firms.html

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 01:02 PM

exclusive film footage of David Cameron's back garden narration by David Cameron, explaining to us how he did it.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 01:27 PM

""was he, then perhaps he should made himself clearer.
You state the obvious with absolute clarity, amazing""

Or perhaps you should read more carefully, and try really hard to comprehend the implications (all of them) of what you are reading.

Remember Tony B Liar was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, went to a good public school, and sent his kids to private schools as well while he was leader of New Labour, the "anti elitist party"......NOT!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 01:42 PM

It is my strong suspicion that Richard Bridge is an alter ego of Ed Millipede.

They both seem intent upon the same course of action, which up to now has been to stand on the sidelines, bankrupt of solutions, and sling large clods of mud in a feeble attempt to create more problems for the other side, displaying thereby their total lack of knowledge of a sensible way forward.

Better they close their mouths and be thought fools, than open them and prove it so.

I have been on my MPs case since the election, making a strong point of objecting to what I believe is wrong in their approach, and I have to say getting satisfactory responses, very definitely not the party line, in fact very often the reverse.

That is more, I would suggest, than most left wingers are doing.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: BTNG
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 01:55 PM

sorry I was never a Red scare disciple, always seemed to me to be a waste of time and energy, again belaying the obvious that Stalin was every bit as evil as Hitler and millions were dying

I never supported Labour when they were "the peoples party" (now that's going back a bit) BUT having said that, I simply would not make a good Conservative lackey either, I'll leave that to you wysiwyg.

stop bashing the left wing, you're a one trick pony it seems to me.

" I have been on my MPs case since the election..." well if you're as annoying with him/her it's wonder they haven't been around to see you, the law that is.

anyway, where I am we have a provicial election coming up in the next week or so and I have been working on a local candidate's campaign, I need to get on with that..byeeeeeee! LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 03:12 PM

Even B. Liar was better than the conservatives would have been.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 04:51 PM

But in any event, I'm not going to continue this thread. It has served its purposes.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,cujimmy
Date: 02 Nov 11 - 03:57 PM

Havn't seen those two nice Torys for ages - they seem to have dissapeared.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: GUEST,Steaming' Willie
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 04:06 AM

Eyup M'Ulearned Friend.

I thought you said earlier that this thread is finished when all Tories have been liquidated, or words to that effect.

Europe going into liquidation over dodgy Greek loans isn't quite the same thing.

Mind you, saying Bliar was a better liar than any Tory liar is scraping the barrell. Perhaps it has served its purpose after all. And to think I only got to contribute once. Ah well.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 11:37 AM

Its one of those odd things, everytime I contributed to this thread saying come now! lots of tories ain't all that bad - immediately a
tory would appear and remind you of all the reasons for hating them.

Subject: RE: BS: Nobody likes a Tory
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Nov 11 - 01:06 PM

Oooh - 300