BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 07:13 AM

You can tell Gods opinion of money by the people he gives it all to, I've heard this credited to Ewan MacColl but I'm not 100% sure.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 05:33 AM

Forgive me. I'm lost.

1. Does this 58% include the rich, in which case the survey results are skewed?

2. Does the unskewed portion of the 58% think that all of the rich deserve all of their riches? If so that must include every wealthy gangster, drug dealer, fraudster, slum landlord etc?

3. If they don't, then which portion of the rich are the deserving? Is it limited to those who acquired their riches through honest toil? If so, what about the people who likewise spent their lives in honest toil and left this world as poor as the day they entered it?

4 Does it include all the bankers who nearly brought the world economy to its knees, and may yet succeed in doing so.

5. Does it include lottery winners and other people who have acquired their wealth fortuitously?

6. Does it include people who were born into riches and who therefore did nothing to enter the echelons of the wealthy?

7. Does it mean the rest of the world deserves its poverty?

I'm curious because I've just had a call from one Lewis Carroll asking if I know what's happened to his white rabbit.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 04:57 AM

They sure as hell never deserved a bailout.
Rich crybabies.
(:-( P)=

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 03:35 AM

I have no problem with 6 billion people being equally wealthy

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 10:08 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth"

Predicate: RE: BS: The other 42% say that if God meant humans to fly we would have been born with wings.

Republicans were vocal on the issue because they wanted to add their two percent but a mathematics guy said there was no place to put it. Democrats were strangely silent after suggesting in an off-camera remark that they knew where it could be put. Libertarians were once again doing a Dali and the Greens refused to comment except to say, "What?" An independent candidate who wanted to express his views was declined an interview because he could not ensure he'd avoid the word 'fuck' while on air. He couldn't offer assurances about what might happen if he got high on grass before the interview.

NORAD had not returned our call by publication deadline.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 01:34 PM

Blowhard U beats out yer Retard U, Sawz...

Here's an idea for ya...Why not take some real college classes in a real college so you wouldn't continually prove just how little you know or understand about the real world...

But you won't do that because you are Exhibit A thru Z that "ignorance is bliss"... You must be one very happy man...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 01:11 PM

"because it combined "strongly agree" and "somewhat agree"... In other words, another completely bogus poll..."

For a person that claims to be highly educated in stats, Bobert exhibits an ignorance about polls.

The poll also combined "strongly disagree" and "somewhat disagree" to arrive at the real percentage of people that disagree.

I believe Bobert graduated from Blowhard University.

Majoring in how to bullshit your way without having any proof of anything.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 10:00 PM

As to relative wealth, it comes from not giving it to your relatives.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 09:53 PM

It wasn't a stupid question to someone, because they paid to have the survey done; they seem to have been paying to have the survey done for quite a number of years. I don't think it was Sawzaw...

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 09:23 PM

It was not only a stupid question but stupid methodology...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 08:31 PM

Wealthy is a relative term.


Most of the wealthy got it from their relatives!

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 08:17 PM

I said it was a stupid question, Bobert. Maybe you should read for comprehension:-)

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 07:59 PM

No, Stim... Read for comprehension here... Go to the original poll... Read it... The 42% you throw around as if is the Holy Grail isn't 42% at all... Nor is the 58% who believe that these folks "deserve" their wealth...

Actually the poll never got around the real percentage of "agree" because it combined "strongly agree" and "somewhat agree"... In other words, another completely bogus poll...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 07:48 PM

Getting back to the original, stupid, question, let's consider what it means, reductio ad absurdum, if necessary.

The question was, "Most rich people in my country deserve their wealth".

For the purposes of this discussion, I am going to use information from this article Who Rules America by G. William Domhoff, a professor of Sociology at UC Santa Cruz (the leftmost city in the US). OK, he doesn't have the credibility of the Charlotte Observer, but what do you want, egg in your beer?

He says:

"In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2007, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers)."

OK!!! It makes me want to start singing "The Banks are made of marble", or "Joe Hill" or the first verse of "The Internationale".

Do those upper class parasites deserve to own most of the wealth! HELL NO!!!

But wait, actually, according to our "Leftest City In America" Sociologist(who might even be a Marxist!!) they *don't* own most of wealth. Managers, professionals, and small business folks own 50%, and wage and salaried workers own 15%, meaning that folks who work for a living own 65% of the wealth.

Now, given that both Common Law and the Constitution affirm the you have a right to hold private property, in other words, that you deserve to have whatever wealth you have, the fact is that 42% of the population don't think that the rich should have their wealth, and a lot of the rest only think it's sort of ok.

Does anybody ask if the white collar workers deserve their wealth, or if the hardhats and factory workers deserve their wealth?

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 07:28 PM

"Capital" is just numbers written in a column in a bank. When they want more they just write more numbers. They use words like "leveraging" and "quantative easing", but it's just nunbers written down in a column in a bank.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 07:26 PM

Well, first we had to debunk the 58% approve which ended up more like 15% and this finally is settling down to how the richest country in the world distributes its riches among it population...

Right now??? We are doing a very poor (pun intended) job...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 02:49 PM

1. The rich deserve their wealth, whether they worked for it or not.
2. They are entitled to it.
3. I thought lots of Congressfolks were against entitlements.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 01:36 PM

And... You get the same tax benefit investing it in China, which does nothing for our economy, or worse, in commodities or real estate speculation which actually damages our economy.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 01:07 PM

JtS-I understand your points, and tend to agree with them. Another problem we have is that the long term capital gains tax is lower than the tax on earned income(15% vs 25-35% for median income and above).

If your Great, Great, Great Grandfather sold enough shoe polish to buy half of a swamp that is now a financial district, and you spend your days having bon-bons and champagne on your yacht, you'd pay $60k on the $400k you "earned" from investments. If, on the other hand, you're doctor who saves hundreds of lives everyday (@ $10 each), you'd pay $140,000 tax on that same $400k.

If you were the doctor, you'd figure out pretty fast that you'd do better to invest your money than to work for it. If you were the bon-bon guy, you'd just smile and keep getting richer.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 09:44 AM

White kids don't pick crops, make [up ] hotel rooms or clean restrooms.

Complete bullshit, PeeSDee, as is the rest of that posting of yours. As usual.

Be happy to show you plenty of white kids doing exactly those things if you'd care to drop by.

As for the rest of your bullshit, its not worth responding to.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 09:07 PM

"As GUEST,Patsy said (before being rudely treated) is that just ain't poverty in a world where $1.25 a day is the current poverty line."

GUEST Patsy ain't living on $1.25 a day, is she!

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 08:54 PM

$1.25 a day don't by much beer.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 08:53 PM

Transportation...

Kids expenses...

Insurance....

Retirement... I know, what's that???

Taxes???

Clothing???

Health care???

BTW, as long as one rents there can never be reitirement...

Entertainment, even if it means renting a movie once a month...

Internet, TV...

Charity??? Never mind...

Lot goes into budgeting other than rent, electricity and food, especially when ya' 2 kids and a wife...

$22,400...

Anyone want to step up???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: pdq
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 08:43 PM

Same plus beer.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 08:33 PM

My budget is rent, electricity bill and food. What's yer's?

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 08:20 PM

The official poverty threshold numbers are so outta whack it is laughable... No, it isn't... It's cry-able...

$22,400 a year for a family of four???

I'd love to see anyone's budget on what the Repubs want people to have to provide for themselves on that amount while providing for all the privatized stuff they have in mind for America, including retirement and education for their kids...

Yes, please anyone... Post your budget...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 08:19 PM

"Amazing claims since the semi-official poverty line is $12,000 a year for a single self-supporter and $22,000 for a family of four, husband a wife and two children."

"Semi-official?", is that like nearly pregnant?

"assumed to be"   So three kids and a mom aren't a family? Andy, Opie and Aunt Bee weren't a family????? Say it ain't so say it ain't so!!

"a world where $1.25 a day is the current poverty line." That is Mitt Romney World.

"Why yes Anne, we'll give the poor in this country the chance to earn $2.50 per day in sweatshops and at twice the world poverty threshold. They should be able to live comfortably on that!"
five minutes later...

"500 dollars a day for board and grooming? Our precious dancing horse is worth every penny."

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: pdq
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 08:03 PM

GUEST,999 says we have 25% poverty and B-pert says it is 50%!

Amazing claims since the semi-official poverty line is $12,000 a year for a single self-supporter and $22,000 for a family of four, assumed to be a husband a wife and two children.

That translates to $1000 per month for the single, a figure that qualifies you for food assistance and some other government support systems.

The $12K single/$22K family criterion represents 15 percent of the US population.

15 percent of 320 milion people is about 48 million total.. That is the same number of people who get food assistance right now, say to the tune of $160-200 per month. Effectively, that is $1000 income plus $200 Food Stamps or $1200 per month, or $14,400 per year.

As GUEST,Patsy said (before being rudely treated) is that just ain't poverty in a world where $1.25 a day is the current poverty line.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 08:02 PM

What is more deplorable than 'union busting' is worker devaluation. What we have now is people thinking that unions have broken the worker market. That is untrue. The worker owners are spending billions NOT to break unions, but rather to break workers. As a worker, I suggest fuck you as appropriate response. I am not going to help. I will not vote for you, I will not depend on you for my subsistence. You do not exist in my world. In short, kiss mine for a change. And when your investment fails, blame me. I'm used to that--but it just don't work no mo'.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 07:21 PM

What we have after 30 years of union busting is a 40% increase in worker productivity and 0% in increased wages (after inflation)... Who is benefiting??? Guess...

Hint: Ain't the 99%...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 07:19 PM

>>We did and do have the natural resources, but it takes capital to develop industries in order to exploit those resources.<<

I totally believe in capitalism. I don't believe in oligarchy.

It takes some Capital. But we have something called public ownership of companies. Workers can own stock. It does not require that we have People as rich as the Kochs or the Waltons or even Mitt Romney. This country was most prosperous and had the best growth when the top marginal tax rate was near 90% and there was a hefty estate tax.

Bill Gates and Steve Jobs would have been just as innovative for 1 tenth the money. Lebron James would play basketball for 2 million a year instead of twenty.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 07:12 PM

Stim, you are correct as far as you go. There has to be cash to get stuff going. I would expect as an investor in a project to realize a reasonable profit. Pick a number that's reasonable. If all my money is in the project I would expect a living wage and a modest 10-15%. If I am shilling for many other people who also expect 10-15%, the cost is going up. However, cash without workers doesn't mean much--nor does workers without cash. Truthfully, I wouldn't want government help or big money help. Help from those bastards is like asking your favorite gang leader for a favor. He may come through, but you'll be on the hook for a long, long time.

I do see where you are coming from, Stim; I appreciate your views and equanimity. But realities for the bottom 25% are very different. Theirs is a world of deprivation and subsistence where life is gauged to be a success if ya wake up in the morning.

My issue with both rich and poor people is this: if the rich weren't so rich, the poor wouldn't be so poor. The world of finance has become a monster that eats its young--or more to the point, our young. Wars fed by our money and our kids; realities paid for with our money, not theirs. This is rampantly stupid. If I had a dog that was as crazy as this I'd shoot it.

As a BTW, I am the top end of poor. I am not complaining. But when people who have less than I do make it day to day, I sometimes wonder why they want to (I don't wonder at how they do).

People who used to eat from plates, no matter how cracked, washed-out or faded, ate. These days there are just too many empty plates.

Best regards to you.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 06:09 PM

We did and do have the natural resources, but it takes capital to develop industries in order to exploit those resources. Only after capital is used to develop industry is there anywhere for hardworking immigrants to work. That's why we need the rich--they have the capital.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 05:15 PM

Yo, Stim...

The facts I have provided are from the largest newspaper in North Carolina, the "Charlotte Observer"... Not "some magazine"... Read for comprehension before offering your critiques, por favor...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 04:55 PM

America had the combination of enormous available natural resources and millions of hardworking immigrants. Organising things to use that combination productively meant that some people fund themselves in a position to exploit their fellow citizens and appropriate a vast proportion of the wealth produced - and they used that opportunity ruthlessly.

And that is the form of capitalism which has achieved godlike status in the American psyche.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 04:31 PM

Occupy is doing something valuable, but until it presents itself as an alternative to Republicans or Democrats, it isn't really doing much except postponing the inevitable.

PDQ, you think you have a logic in that last post. I fail to see it.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 04:26 PM

I would argue that it was not capital that made this country affluent but the
industry of the working class that supported the capitalists who took advantage.
I agree that it needs to be regulated.

There is no legitimate concept that people are helpless without the government.
The people are the government and the representatives should work for the people.
Any realistic advance in social development comes from the people who push the government along lines of advancement bottom up. This is why the grass roots are so important and not the politicians who supposedly serve the people.

It is irrelevant where the first food bank came from. The important thing now is the Occupy has created many food banks and is actively feeding those in need.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 02:55 PM

Stim: "For good or ill, it is capital that made this country affluent. Capitalism isn't evil, but it is amoral, which means that to prevent harm, it needs to regulated, and way more than we do now."


You must be another citizen of 'Sanity-Land'!! ...a foreigner to this shit!

Nice to see a fellow citizen.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: pdq
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 02:41 PM

Can you support that number?

The US has 8% unemployment (the government wouldn't lie to us, would it?) and 14.8% of us are on food stamps. Either of those numbers could be used to show the dependancy/poverty rate.

BTW, all countries and all societies need poor people. That is just a fact, and it is absurd to blame all flaws in human society on Republicans.

We had so few poor folks in the US that we started actively recruiting them from Mexico.

White kids don't pick crops, make hotel rooms or clean restrooms. Beneath their dignity.

For 50 years the White kids have been smoking dope, whining about the "rich people" and trying to earn their bucks by playing an electric guitar.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 02:22 PM

"The job of caring for the bottom 5% once fell to churches"

True, but that five percent is now 25%.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: pdq
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 02:13 PM

"The world's first food bank was the St. Mary's Food Bank Alliance in Arizona..."

How does this statement support the leftist concept that the People are hopeless without the government?

The job of caring for the bottom 5% once fell to churches. The Athiest Left moved the responsibility to the government (them, of course).

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 01:47 PM

For good or ill, it is capital that made this country affluent. Capitalism isn't evil, but it is amoral, which means that to prevent harm, it needs to regulated, and way more than we do now.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 01:12 PM

999, The last addendum in the last post was NOT directed at you, personally.

Regards,

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 12:58 PM

Guest, 999: "Why vote for a man who values money more than he values his country or its citizens?"


...and judging from a lot of the posts in the room...Who gives a fuck about an electorate, who cares more about money than honesty and integrity...and who act like a bunch of seals at Marine World, waiting, clapping and barking to be tossed another anchovie...except what they are waiting, clapping and barking for is just another lie, from their preferred candidate.
It's so fucking stupid, that it is a parody of American stupidity..or maybe a laboratory experiment of what people act like when they watch the 'news' media....pointing the blame away, from those who own the 'news' media, and own the candidates....and yes, that means the faux liberal guy we have in office, now!

Demand better,..and make your voice heard.....or shut up, you don't have much to say, anyway.......(we already heard it on the 'news').
might as well watch the 'Cartoon Channel'.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 12:49 PM

Besides, the Military Industrial Complex is mostly run by corporations such as Lockheed Martin, Boeing and the like who are not government agencies.

The wars that the taxpayer pays for are mostly privatized, these days.

Motives are war are so private companies can invade countries and extract resources such as oil.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 12:43 PM

Hey Stim, I never said that the Military Industrial Complex improved the public good.
The solution is that taxes need to be paid for the public good, not for corporate greed whether military or otherwise. Besides, eg: Blackwater is privatized. The corporate lobbyists need to be regulated by responsible government agencies.
Why should Wall Street run our government?



Capitalists are destroying the most affluent and freedom loving country in the world by turning our industrial base into a gambling casino and outsourcing jobs. The working people were the reason that capitalists can skim off the top of their efforts. The workers are the makers, the capitalists (Wall Street) are the takers. That's the unfortunate reality.
Not paying taxes for a decent government insures that the capitalists will continue to rob the workers.

Your reality is different from mine.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 12:11 PM

America needs another Jacob Riis about now. I expect the damned Republicans would claim he photo-shopped the pictures. Thing is, the same scenes would be 'still-enacted' (to be reenacted would require that the cycle of poverty came to a stop at some point, but it hasn't).

The notion that anyone deserves riches or poverty results from an under indulgence in thinking. Interesting in terms of its other purpose though which seems to be that regardless your economic status, somehow you deserve it, implying that you had choices to begin with. However, even people who had choices can wake up finding themselves with none.

The following from Wikipedia

"History

The world's first food bank was the St. Mary's Food Bank Alliance in Arizona, founded by John van Hengel in 1967. [4]

In 1965, while volunteering for a community dining room, van Hengel learned that grocery stores often had to throw away food that had damaged packaging or was near expiration. He started collecting that food for the dining room but soon had too much for that one program. He thought of creating a central location from which any agency can receive donations. Described as a classic case of "if you build it they will come", [7] the first food bank was created with the help of St. Mary's Basilica.[8]

Food banks quickly spread across the United States. By 1976, the precursor to Feeding America was established. Their network of 200+ foodbanks provides support for 90,000 projects. Other large networks exist such as Ample Harvest which lists some 33,000 food pantries that can utilise overproduction of fresh produce. Following the 2008 worldwide financial crisis, there has been an increase in the number of folk requesting help from food banks. According to a 2012 UCLA Center for Health Policy Research study, there has been a 40% increase in demand for Californian food banks since 2008, with even married couples who both work sometimes requiring the aid of food banks. [9]
In the 1980s, Food banks began to appear all around the world. The first european Food bank was founded in France during 1984. Food banks were soon established in South America, Africa and Asia. In 2007, The Global FoodBanking Network was formned. [4]"

The meaning of the above is quite clear: Governments do not have the ability (will?) to feed their own people. And they won't until such time as money is redirected from weapons expenditure.

#####################################

It amazes me that the hang-up being touted by the Democrats about Romney is whether or not he was the operating CEO of Bain for a few years when he said he's wasn't. The greater issue should be his off-shore banking practices. Why vote for a man who values money more than he values his country or its citizens?

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 11:55 AM

If anything turns people toward "conservative values", it could very well be discussions like this one, that toss around all the old cliches about money, wealth, and the rich like they actually mean something.

Bobert, when you speak from your own experience a social worker, nothing is more compelling, but when you toss around numbers from magazine articles, you're on thin ice.

As for you, Frank--I am surprised that, after years of watching Eisenhower, Nixon, and Johnson, Bush, etc using taxes to build up the Military/Industrial complex, culminating in post 9/11 Patriot Act America, that you didn't have a little trouble with the idea of "paying taxes to improve the public good".

The unfortunate reality is that if we live in the most affluent country in the world, it's because capitalists made it happen. The working people helped, but as someone pointed out, "Unless you've got money to pay them, workers won't generally work for you."

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 10:48 AM

Yes, Sawz, there are those of us who don't think being rich is a badge of honor, more a badge of shame when it short changes others, not paying taxes to improve the public good.

Being rich is overrated, those with bucks who are sick in mind and body, selfish, greedy,
insensitive to those who are less fortunate.

We have to remember in the polling data that a great number of Americans don't believe that "Evolution" exists, being in thrall to their preachers, rabbis and imams.

From what I can gather, the red flags are being offered by some Mudcat people in the form of so-called Conservative values, reactionary at their core, indicate a hidden agenda, they perhaps, working for certain law enforcement agencies or think tanks to influence policy.
It pays to be suspicious and skeptical, these days.

Subject: RE: BS: 58% Say The Rich Deserve Their Wealth
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jul 12 - 10:29 AM

10-4, Greg... I used to live in Wes Ginny (20 years to be exact)in one of the mountain hollers... But really, you can go to almost any large urban area, North or South and find areas densely populated by poor people... It's not just a Southern thing, fir sure... And with 30 years of union busting it's happening more and more to middle class America from sea to polluted sea...

BTW, ya'll... Thanks to the US banking crash of '08, real estate values have dropped so much that the net per capita wealth of Canadians has surpassed those of citizens here in the US... And so Romney thinks we need less regs on our banks??? Mentally ill man...

B~