BS: relocation of Franco's remains

Subject: RE: BS: relocation of Franco's remains
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Oct 19 - 03:30 PM

Okay! a magnificent reason for Warrenpoint, Enniskillen, Birmingham, Guilford, Warrington.....the motives of the lads were pure.

unless you're on the receiving end.

Thread drift, I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: relocation of Franco's remains
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Oct 19 - 05:55 AM

Two inreresting insights into the subject from this morning's Irish Times letters

"Okay! a magnificent reason for Warrenpoint, Enniskillen, Birmingham, "Guilford, Warrington.....the motives of the lads were pure."
No Al - a background to what happened and why
I see ypur list doesn't include those who died at the hands of the Unionists and the British Army and you faill to mentio that 'The Troubles' started as Peacful Civil Rights marches which were leg through stone throwing mobs by the police
Forgotten by you and most people
Jim Carroll

SPAIN AND FRANCO’S LEGACY
Sir, - I was disturbed by Frank Giles’s defence of the fas¬cist Francisco Franco as a “statesman” (Letters, October 8th).
I grew up under the Franco regime and can assure him that the terror that regime inflicted on its citizens was immense and long lasting.
As a schoolchild, I was forced to give the fascist salute every day at assembly.
During my compulsory civil¬ian-military training, I was taught that Hitler and Mussolini were great men who brave¬ly stood up to an international conspiracy directed by Jewish socialists.
Citizens of the state were le¬gally murdered (often by garrot¬ting) by Franco’s executioners. In Franco’s police state, dissent¬ers were regularly tortured (of¬ten to death), civil liberties were non-existent, and a grind¬ing, joyless poverty was stand¬ard. Franco’s coup against a democratically elected govern¬ment emboldened European fascism and was the first step to¬wards the concentration camps and a world war. - Your, etc,
MARIA JIMÉNEZ FONT,
Dublin 8.

Sir, - Frank Giles writes of the “stability of the Franco re¬gime” and the importance it played in Spain’s economic growth and eventual transition to democracy. In order to se¬cure this “stability” during the dictatorship, it is important to highlight some of the measures taken to achieve it.
The regime was responsible for mass shootings all over the country. This was an attempt - which was successful in many cases - to wipe out opposing po¬litical ideology. Republicans and dissenters were sent to Nazi-controlled concentration camps, Mauthausen in Austria among them, The dictatorship also established labour camps of its own across the country where people opposing the re¬gime were exploited through forced labour.
At least 30,960 babies were taken from their families in or¬der to re-educate children of re¬publicans and instil the “values of new Spain”.
This, along with the imposi¬tion of a monarchy without the consultation of the people, is Franco’s real legacy.
Rather than brushing off the exhumation of Franco as a “cyn¬ical political move”, I would sug¬gest Dr Giles watches the bril¬liant documentary The Silence of Others. It depicts the pain and anguish that still exists to¬day among family members of victims of the dictatorship. This may help him understand why Spain needs to deal with its past first, before it can overcome the many challenges the country faces in the future. - Yours, etc, PAUL SCANLON, Santander, Spain.

Subject: RE: BS: relocation of Franco's remains
From: keberoxu
Date: 12 Oct 19 - 12:39 PM

and from the
It Ain't Over 'Til It's Over category
(with apologies to Yogi Berra),

The authorities are now rushing to get Franco's remains
moved and relocated
BEFORE the upcoming elections,
and there is even talk of
getting a helicopter to move them faster.

I smell a really bad joke in there somewhere,
but I'm not going to get my shovel
and dig it out.

Subject: RE: BS: relocation of Franco's remains
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 06:16 PM

It wasn't a joke after all.

For Spain, Franco's exhumation causes consternation

Subject: RE: BS: relocation of Franco's remains
From: keberoxu
Date: 04 Dec 19 - 12:14 PM

… and some of the families of
those buried in crypts in the Valley of the Fallen
want to get the remains of their loved ones out of there.

Subject: RE: BS: relocation of Franco's remains
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Dec 19 - 12:17 PM

Wait, terrorism is OK as long as it's the downtrodden doing it to the mighty?

Subject: RE: BS: relocation of Franco's remains
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Dec 19 - 11:52 PM

If only it were that simple, Mrrzy.
But if it's Spain, and Franco, that means
there is an unholy tangled web of things,
and no small amount of corruption.

Consider the Valley of the Fallen situation.
There is more going on there than
a mausoleum and a memorial.

There is actually a Benedictine abbey there, complete with abbot and monks.
I'm afraid to pursue my curiosity and look at how this religious order got mixed up with the Franco regime and all.
I expect I would find something as sinister as the dear old Inquisition from centuries before.

If you're bothering with this thread in any detail,
then you know that Franco's remains have left the mausoleum permanently.
He is now next to his dear departed spouse's remains, his own having been transported by helicopter.

I recall a news report that before the City of Madrid prevailed, and got the coffin et cetera moved, that Benedictine abbot at the Valley of the Fallen
tried to stop the whole exhumation thing in its tracks on religious grounds of some sort.
Which meant a big public gesture intended to make the Vatican take notice.

And if I read right,
the Vatican looked in the direction of the Madrid Benedictine abbot,
shook its collective head,
and said,
where were we before we were so rudely interrupted ...