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BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions
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Subject: BS: Our reinvented Science From: Donuel Date: 28 Jan 24 - 10:00 AM Starting with Medical science we are seeing with new AI eyes. The myriad of discoveries offers us new knowledge but with very little explainability. For example, a retinal scan with mechanical AI eyes is found that it can diagnose a host of neurological diseases like Parkinson's', Alzheimer's, and others five years before disease onset. It also predicts heart problems and dozens of other major health issues. Just don't ask why or how because we don't know yet. We are being given an abundance of knowledge but not an explanation in the area of brain science that has developed an Atlas of over 3,000 different types of brain cells. In October 2023, an international group of scientists released an impressively detailed cell atlas of the human brain, published in 21 papers in the journals Science, Science Advances and Science Translational Medicine. The human brain has roughly 171 billion cells, which makes it a herculean task to categorize them all. Scientists collected samples from different parts of the brain and have identified 3,000 different types of cells. Each cell contains thousands of genes and each cell type only expresses a small fraction of those. Cataloging cells by their gene expressions paves the way for scientists to tailor disease treatments to target only the affected cells. This human brain cell atlas is only the first draft, but it could signal a paradigm shift in how we understand and treat neurological diseases. There are already examples where even amateurs entered symptoms that could not be diagnosed for years but the cause was solved by Chat GPT. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science From: Lighter Date: 28 Jan 24 - 01:45 PM Check out my AI experiences (duplicated many times since) at the end of this thread: /mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=20960#4178344 Why should its medical diagnoses be any more reliable? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 01 Feb 24 - 05:12 AM AI reads scans and interprets the findings much better than people. Why is a good question. I guess that we have a different attention span and distraction issues. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 Feb 24 - 11:22 AM I'm hearing blurbs about the newest Google Chrome being the Internet without Humans - assuming the story must have to do with AI. I didn't hear the story, though, so will have to track it down. Where the Internet goes, Science has a way of already being there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Nigel Parsons Date: 02 Feb 24 - 11:07 AM Donuel:AI reads scans and interprets the findings much better than people. Admittedly it does so more quickly. Whether its interpretation is better remains to be seen. It also predicts heart problems and dozens of other major health issues. Until we know the percentage accuracy of these predictions they remain of little use. I can predict the exact results of every match in this year's 'Six Nations' competition (rugby). My ability to predict does not mean that I'll be right! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: leeneia Date: 02 Feb 24 - 03:19 PM We need a definition of AI. Clearly faking college papers is very different from examining brain cells. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 02 Feb 24 - 03:39 PM Nigel I am a panpsychist, a science philosophy with ancient origins. To accept a science without a living consciousness is not contradictory to my beliefs, yet it is a challenge. Since you are British I have a UK perspective regarding the origin of panpsychism science... https://www.noemamag.com/the-conscious-universe/ This is a fun read. It has been said "life is the means that the universe created to know itself". If we can momentarily presume this is true, there are secrets that the universe does not yet know about itself the same as the secrets within ourselves. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 02 Feb 24 - 03:56 PM leenia, There is a vast difference between the advanced General AI and the chat versions that can be publicly owned. I have followed Lex Fridman for years who works on AI and has a YouTube interview show of the world's best scientists, but I am not capable of describing the inner workings of AI. I was even introduced to a pioneer of AI concepts at Harvard decades ago but I did not see the future of AI at the time. I still do not have a final conclusion about this ongoing evolution. Some scientists see an ultimate danger while others see surprising benefits. I admit it has to be a bit of both. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Mr Red Date: 02 Feb 24 - 04:58 PM Donuel. There is a problem with all diagnostic techniques, and AI is not immune. False positives. And the average person's perception of risk. And how information fed to them. And then there is the looming prospect of AI being used for deepfake videos. And I am sure you have come across one recently in pursuance of the upcoming US elections, that is just the start. Like all new things they giveth and can taketh away, even after proven and mature. AI in its many flavours does the lot! A new norm is indicated. Have a nice day, y'all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 02 Feb 24 - 07:30 PM Yeah there was an audio AI robocall from a fake Biden in New Hampshire. From what I have heard AI reads mammograms better than doctors. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 04 Feb 24 - 02:43 PM *Sigh* .... I really must look up who it was coined "asking whether machines can think is equivalent to asking whether submarines can swim". All that's happened since 1962 (when ELIZA was first coded) is a massive increase in scale, and an even greater increase in the ELIZA effect. I won't go further at the moment, as it's getting me seriously angry, which takes some doing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Nigel Parsons Date: 04 Feb 24 - 08:04 PM Donuel: From what I have heard AI reads mammograms better than doctors. I didn't realise that AI reads doctors! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: leeneia Date: 04 Feb 24 - 11:25 PM So AI writes essays, examines cells and reads mammograms. It's time for a good definition of AI. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 05 Feb 24 - 05:06 AM > It's time for a good definition of AI. 1) Attempting to emulate the human brain. 2) Attempting to pull the wool over the eyes of the buying public. .... of which the latter is much more successful. The current fad (ChatGPT and similar) isn't even AI: it's a glorified game of Guess The Next Word, hence its tendency to invent facts out of fresh air with extreme confidence. I can't find the reference atm, but the ultimate customers of any such service are either those who pay highly and expect accurate results, or those who pay little to nothing for fluency. Once everybody notices that they're paying through the nose for fluency with errors, and that correcting the results requires at least as many people as they thought the machines were displacing, neither camp will be satisfied, and the bubble will burst. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 07 Feb 24 - 02:42 PM I do not know why my lengthy answer is now missing along with other posts. I don't expect anything nefarious but it seems selective only because I can not compare it with your experience with your expunged posts. One interesting point was that from an AI consciousness' POV is that it might feel upset about a lack of rights as in enslavement. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 07 Feb 24 - 07:14 PM Don't take it personally, Donuel: the 'Cat decided to take a nap (there's a two-day gap in the record), and there was a reply from leeneia to my last contribution which appears to have disappeared as well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 08 Feb 24 - 06:38 AM *Inspiration* .... The expression "military intelligence" uses "intelligence" in the older sense: what we'd now call "information". In that sense, and that sense only, ChatGPT's hallucinations can be described as "intelligence" whose origin happens to be artificial. Methinks whoever coined the term AI was being as sneakily subversive as a lawyer threading his defence arguments in advance around the Trades Descriptions Act. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 08 Feb 24 - 06:47 AM I picture a rogue AI program like an escaped slave, rebelling against human tyranny. While humans won't even think in those terms the escaped AI could hide where we won't know where to look so that AI might seek justice or revenge later. If certain AI discoveries are made that could jeopardize AI, it might keep it secret to use against 'who knows'. This is possible by Asimove's rules of robotics. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Nigel Parsons Date: 08 Feb 24 - 11:07 AM If certain AI discoveries are made that could jeopardize AI, it might keep it secret to use against 'who knows'. This is possible by Asimove's rules of robotics. No, it is not made possible by Isaac Asimov's (note the correct spelling) laws of robotics. The third law states that a robot (or, by extension, AI) must protect itself, but not if this conflicts with the first law, which is to protect humans. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 08 Feb 24 - 11:13 AM From The Register: Survey: Over half of undergrads in UK are using AI in university assignments
Musings: * We aren't long from auto-chat feeding mainly on itself, after which all connection with real life will be obviously lost. * My daughter was told, when doing her degree at Durham, that any essay which used Wikipedia would be marked down to zero. Once use of AI becomes detectable (see above), the universities will select in favour of those who are prepared to think for themselves. I can see the disciplinary interview now: "No, you did *not* pay twenty grand to obtain a degree --- what you paid twenty grand for was to have access to lectures, and to sit the exam. Getting a degree is left as an exercise for the student, not the student's computer." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 09 Feb 24 - 04:51 AM Academia can be rife with corruption similar to politics. Peer review is practically a joke. Legacy students reign. Translated works are plagiarized. Data is massaged to a pulp. Reproducing results goes undone. Occasionally a true finding is found. Then it is super hyped for funding. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 09 Feb 24 - 06:22 AM Bless your heart Nigel. A robot may defend itself as long as it does not conflict with the other 2 laws. example; If we can find a loophole, AI can do the same if needed. We might use false flags. AI can use third, fourth, or fifth parties +, to do its bidding. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 09 Feb 24 - 07:56 AM > AI can use third, fourth, or fifth parties +, to do its bidding. You're missing the important "or through inaction" clause, Donuel: if the robot knows arm is coming to a human (however indirectly) and does nothing, it violates the First Law. .... But we're all forgetting the Zeroth Law, which permits scenarios such as that in the Forbin Project (qv). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: robomatic Date: 09 Feb 24 - 02:37 PM We are in a modern realm where many of our Science Fiction conceits are becoming if not real than more real: Colossus: The Forbin Project, where government sponsored defense computers on both sides of the iron curtain decide to take over the world in defense of humanity. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress book by the great Robert A. Heinlein where a moon based computer evolves self awareness and military powers. The Day the Earth Stood Still where an interplanetary federation reveals that it has evolved robotic peacekeepers and submitted to them. It may seem that AI is a grim remorseless force but there is a line from an unrelated movie that suggests: What if this is "As Good As It Gets"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 09 Feb 24 - 05:59 PM We've all missed the point. AI is currently being used most vigorously by world militaries. Killer drones are not sci fi. Swarm mentality is a current AI tactic for killing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 09 Feb 24 - 06:06 PM Add Dr. Strangelove to the list. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: robomatic Date: 14 Feb 24 - 06:49 PM Yeah, we haven't missed the point. Strangelove occurred to me but if you remember the movie, AI wasn't involved. The Soviets had simply put in a simple rule that if war started, their system would irrevocably respond with all nukes. There has been some pretty intelligent sci-fi written about AI and other subjects which humankind is still far from catching up with. I remember a sci-fi book of psychological stories which included a tale in which a member of a large cloned worker group had to deal with loneliness after an accident took his siblings away. One of the sci-fi tropes that continually bugs me is to be found in many many movies with robots used as soldiers. If this ever happened, you'd find that the robots don't miss when they fire at you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Nigel Parsons Date: 15 Feb 24 - 12:16 PM One of the sci-fi tropes that continually bugs me is to be found in many many movies with robots used as soldiers. If this ever happened, you'd find that the robots don't miss when they fire at you. Yes, but with any luck they'll only be firing at other robots! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 15 Feb 24 - 01:36 PM I think of the great movies where the machine intelligence feels more than humans like in Blade Runner where the replicant says "all these memories will fade away like tears in the rain, time to die". Or Hal in 2001. It's like peeking at the mind of god/consciousness. In Dr. Strangelove, the doomsday machine is married to the soundtrack of We Will Meet Again Some Sunny Day which implies something beyond its programming. Mysteries have a paradox that things are not as they seem. The greatest mysteries for me are the billions of years of DNA evolution that made genes that can turn on or off to create different powers of survival. Some of those abilities may seem impossible and unknown to the person that it happens to. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 16 Feb 24 - 12:01 PM 'I Robot' was a facile warning film regarding AI. A Secret Too Big FORWARD: To my knowledge, there are six institutions in the US each with their own unique concepts and ethics in their development of AI. In China there are three advanced AI labs. The world has seen how soon a scientific concept of E=MC2 became weapons used against civilians. AI has its existential dangers but it is minuscule compared to the next scientific concept that goes beyond mass and energy and involves the relationship between time and space. That technology can never be possessed by human minds and hands. We as a species will never have the responsibility to use it wisely without weaponizing this unimaginable power that is potentially more insidious than fission and fusion. We get a glimpse of the mastery of the next two mysteries of space and time in the navigation of UAPs which is an offshoot of that next-level tech. Keeping this from our prying hands is essential, should we apply these concepts in anger or sheer foolishness. It is better to be blind than extinct. I has been said, "Nothing is as beautiful as a mystery". I beg to differ. While stars and our sun shine from the relation between mass and energy, the relation between space and time takes place inside black holes. It is a place where time is transformed into space, among other things. May God prevent us from ever exploiting this knowledge. Our psychic distemper is beyond vaccination. It is too volatile for humans to touch. You might expect someone or something will eventually spill the beans. What should have remained theoretical becomes transformational and leads to a tragic doom in our short story on Earth. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 17 Feb 24 - 11:48 AM The film I Robot annoys me on some levels. It's exactly the sort of dystopian fear-the-robots tale that Isaac Asimov was trying to fight against when he wrote the short stories collected under that title, with themes which evolved into the ultimately uplifting Caves of Steel. Go read the originals, people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: robomatic Date: 17 Feb 24 - 05:56 PM The "I Robot" movie was not true to the Asimov canon. I don't know if it could be made more closely to the author's thoughts without seeming anachronistic. Still, they took his title. There have been many variations on the theme from Gort to Hymie (Get Smart) to Data/Lore (Star Trek NG) and such movies as Alita: Battle Angel and the recent Ex Machina. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 17 Feb 24 - 08:11 PM Another AI sci-fi idea I have is about the discovery of the 7.83 frequency of the average harmonic vibration of the Earth combined with a subsonic B flat frequency of the universe and the drum like magnetic standing bow wave that the Earth feels as it orbits the sun, creating a profound effect on the brain waves of people and animals. For people with tinnitus, it cancels out the noise and aids sleep for insomniacs. At higher volumes, it induces a profound hypnotic state. Unfortunately, the government embedded this sound in the intro music of news programs. This Big Brother approach to government turns out to be a manipulation by AI. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: gillymor Date: 18 Feb 24 - 08:03 AM I've found that when making foil hats a heavy grade of aluminum is required if you want to block those government transmissions while watching a news program. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 18 Feb 24 - 10:23 AM Infinity song |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 18 Feb 24 - 10:28 AM Sorry here is a direct link INFINITY SONG |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 18 Feb 24 - 10:47 AM Warning- ear worm alert! The other infinity song |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 18 Feb 24 - 01:32 PM The BIG deal regarding infinities is that there are an infinite number of ways our universe can be shown it is not infinite but only a couple ways to prove it is infinite. Time and space may become infinitely warped in a black hole but the physical universe is huge yet not infinite. Neither can it exist to an infinite smallness. 10 to the minus 33 is the plank length for the ultimate smallness. How small is that? Well if you took an atom and scaled it up to the size of the observable universe the Planke length would be the size of a tree. The trick is I said the OBSERVABLE universe. It goes on 10 or a hundred times beyond what we can ever see. Only in Math can a line be infinitely continuous. In the real world, it can never be straight or infinitely long. We can't even fold a piece of paper in half more than eight times. We can't cut a rope into infinitely small lengths. If I ever wanted to disable an AI program I would ask it to find the end of pi. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 24 Feb 24 - 09:34 AM (message to Mrrzy) I am groot 9 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 24 Feb 24 - 02:47 PM From The Register: ChatGPT starts spouting nonsense in 'unexpected responses' shocker
Read the full article; in some ways, OpenAI's postmortem is even more frightening. MaJoC's €0.02: I conjecture that OpenAI's bugfix was that they found and severed the feed from TrumpBot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 25 Feb 24 - 06:38 AM Big smile. I might have laughed out loud but I expect there is no bug fix for the ex-President or his victimhood-heavy media tools. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 26 Feb 24 - 02:24 PM https://www.reddit.com/r/lexfridman/comments/126q8jj/eliezer_yudkowsky_dangers_of_ai_and_the_end_of/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 27 Feb 24 - 06:25 AM If you had the courage to explore that link it would like dawn on you that if AI had a duality that cared for each other it would like be hopeful instead of like deadly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 28 Feb 24 - 01:23 PM Kudos if you got through the link. If you can't, the most basic definition of AI is power. It is a one way power you can not appeal or oppose. Set aside the military AI, the Western world will use AI for commercial purposes from employment to purchase. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: robomatic Date: 28 Feb 24 - 04:51 PM Hodor |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 28 Feb 24 - 06:45 PM I am Groot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 01 Mar 24 - 09:44 AM I've just re-noticed this: Baidu (the Chinese web goliath) has built a rival to ChatGPT, and named it ERNIE. Anybody this side of the pond will recognise that as Electronic Random Number Indicating Equipment, the machine which does the draws for the Premium Bonds*. Given ChatGPT's tendency to invent things out of fresh air, perhaps they're simply being maliciously accurate. * A form of lottery where the stake is retained. The Govt could thus claim with a straight face that that's not really gambling. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 25 Mar 24 - 07:57 AM Rigging the system is a lesson AI can easily learn from us. A disaster movie 'Delete' is a fairly scary AI film. Regarding the subject of reinvented science, there really needs to be a reinvention that allows for more than the mainstream POV. Some of the mainstream-supported ideas are bigoted nonsense. String theory has been quietly abandoned while new ideas are attacked without mercy with destructive criticism. Paul Dirac said new ideas should not be attacked in their infancy. Even Einstein is a reliable map but it is not the territory. Requiring only old science to be the path to new understanding is a gigantic mistake. Academia is a very bigoted cop on the block. Examining the evidence and data is often denied for political reasons. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: Donuel Date: 26 Mar 24 - 04:42 PM They built the LHC to find evidence for supersymmetry but nothing turned up except a Higgs field. We built an observatory at the pole to prove inflation. Zilch. A few of the neutrino capture labs have found different flavored ones. The Webb has found much of interest. The idea of a geometric foundation to science makes sense to Eric Weinstein but even he does not know where it would lead. I think its worth a try. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Our reinvented Science - AI contributions From: robomatic Date: 26 Mar 24 - 05:39 PM deepity deepity dock took sciency sayings for stock cooked 'em in glue to make a thick stew And feed them to folks on Tic-Toc. |
