80/20 strings???

Subject: 80/20 strings???
From: canoer
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 02:05 AM

I've enjoyed all the information in these threads, and it's due to them I'm going to try some D'Addario steel strings. But the catalog lists "80/20 Bronze" and also "Phosphor Bronze" strings. Could someone tell me what, _in theory,_ the difference is supposed to be? Thanks!

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: Crowhugger
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 02:11 AM

I'm certain I read about exactly this subject recently, perhaps a bit of thread creep. I'll see if I can find it.

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: Metchosin
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 02:24 AM

The 80/20 Bronze strings are much brighter in character, with a very full bottom end and mellow faster than Phosphor Bronze. They also make an 85/15 Bronze which seems to fall between the two of them. As with all strings they sound a bit fierce for the first two days, then sound settled or balanced for a short while and then betray you like the pieces of wire they are.

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: Crowhugger
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 02:29 AM

This is what I remember reading:

from THREAD: RE: Tunings, String Bending and Intonation

"Strings can go "false". This means they change their pitch as they are sounding. Bending and constant retunng seems to make my strings go false sooner. All guitar strings wobble a few cents as they sound; but if you can hear the difference in pitch as a note sustains, change that string. It will be impossible to play in tune with it.

I have started using 80/20 bronze strings instead of Phospher Bronze and they seem to hold up better under a lot of retuning. It could be the brand. The Phospher/Bronze I use are D'Addario whereas the 80/20s are John Pearce."

Hope it helps!

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: canoer
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 02:38 AM

Can't believe others are up at this godforsaken hour. Unbelievable fast response! Thanks Metchosin, that's about what I was looking for. Thanks Crowhugger, I'd seen that, wanted a little more elaboration, before taking the plunge -- and experimenting. Can't wait to see what else pops up here!

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: Metchosin
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 02:54 AM

The John Pearce tend to last longer IMHO and the Elixirs are extremely long lasting, but they feel a little bit strange due to the Gortex coating and are quite pricey.

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: Metchosin
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 03:03 AM

Canoer, when you're stuck out here on the wet coast of Canada and you're a bit of a night owl, there are very few to talk to, except perhaps Mark in Hawaii, that is until the Aussies get on.

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: canoer
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 03:09 AM

I gather "wet" coast is NOT a typo?

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: Metchosin
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 03:12 AM

Nope...

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: Metchosin
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 03:14 AM

Canoe, where are you? And more importantly just what time is it where you are?

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: canoer
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 03:15 AM

Detroit, 3:15 AM.

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: canoer
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 03:17 AM

My shift ends at 1:30 AM, I get home and glue myself to Mudcat for a while, about 3:00 I can't stay awake any more.

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: Metchosin
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 03:17 AM

Oh Jeez! Too much coffee?

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: canoer
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 03:20 AM

Say, Met, I'm not real experienced in e-etiquette, is it OK to use the thread to just BS a bit?

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: Metchosin
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 03:21 AM

Wet Coast...now you know why we have Gortex on our strings.....actually the're for real.

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 03:25 AM

Phosphor bronze tend to resist the acid from your fingers a little more than 80/20 bronze and therefore last a little longer. They are not quite as bright or ringing in tone but nevertheless sound good. I have used D'Addario phosphor bronze for many years and still do on my mandolin but have recently changed to the new Elixirs for fingerstyle guitar. It's true they feel a little different but I've got used to that and they're a little pricey but they definitely do last a lot longer and are very resistant to "finger acid". The tone is not quite as bright as 80/20 but they seem to suit my guitar.

As in all things (guitars, choice of woods, tone, aesthetics, etc.) it's a subjective and personal thing at the end of the day.

Best regards,

mcmoo

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: Metchosin
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 03:26 AM

I think at this time of night nobody's going to yell at us. But in keeping with the general tone, the Elixir strings work really well if you tend to have acidy sweat, which can eat your strings.

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: canoer
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 03:27 AM

Yeah, lets the strings breathe without rusting up in the rain. Actually I know a tiny bit about the wet c. because my daughter-in-law is from Victoria. -- I keep reading in these threads, about the Goretexed strings, lots of people have tried them, varying opinions but seem to come out on the positive side. Me, my ear isn't even close to needing $12 strings. At least not yet.

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: Metchosin
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 03:27 AM

Jeez mcmoo your psychic, you just posted the sweat thing at the same time I did.

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: Metchosin
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 03:31 AM

I'm coming at you from just outside Victoria as well.

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: canoer
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 03:36 AM

Merci mcmoo, just the sort of concrete technical info I like to have. Absolutely it's personal, the instrument, the sound a person likes, the price of tea in Oslo -- but I like having the technical stuff clear, anyway, going in. After all, in the end, I'm gonna use what I like, not what formula alloy I "should" use. I picked my guitar because TO ME, it stood out from even several other very pricier brands. I expect I'll settle on some type of strings eventually, just the same way.

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: canoer
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 03:40 AM

Dear Met, small world, eh?

Thanks for the company this early AM. Yours truly is fading fast. Catch up with you some other time!

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: kendall
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 08:35 AM

Like I said, try FAST FRET. It's worth the price.

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: Lady McMoo
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 09:20 AM

Dear canoer...

Fast Fret is quite a useful lanolin-based product in stick form that will help clean the crud off strings, lubricate them lightly and prolong their life. One stick of it in my experience lasts for years and, as kendall says above, is probably worth the price.

The worst thing about it is the appalling squealing noise (see stuck pig thread) it makes when you clean off especially the two top strings after applying it. I've seen this quickly clear a pub when a particularly poor session has singularly failed to do so!

All the best,

mcmoo

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: canoer
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 12:14 PM

Silly me, I thought there would be something about guitar strings in the stuck-pig thread. :-)}

I've been avoiding the thread up to now because as a farm boy and ex-slaughterhouse worker -- why would I want to? But it was entertaining, after all.

Thanks for reminding me about FF, both of you, I recall now having read about it, probably Kendall's posting, but it slipped to the side of the road. Would be good for me, I bet, 'cause I don't tend to change strings real often.

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: longhair
Date: 22 Feb 00 - 02:20 PM

I like DR strings in Phosphor Bronze. They seem to last longer than any of the other strings I've tried. I don't know if they make them in 80/20 though. 80/20 on my guitar sounds a little to tinny. my .02 YMMV longhair

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: Easy Rider
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 10:40 AM

So many people like phosphor bronze that 80/20 strings are hard to get in the stores. Funny thing, though, I like 80/20 better. I think the sound is mellower and deeper than phosphor bronze and better for fingerstyle.

Strings are cheap, and you have to change them every month anyway, so try 'em both, back and forth for awhile, and see for yourself.

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: Scotsbard
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 03:14 PM

Technically, 80/20 is usually considered a brass, with 80%copper and 20% zinc. Phosphor bronse contains up to about 15% tin (the remainder copper, but no phosphorus) which is slightly more corrosion resistant in many cases.

The physical properties of the different metals don't vary much as far as the sound of new strings are concerned. The real differences occur in the relative size of the steel core and the alloy winding, and in how closely the windings are spaced. With use the space between the windings gets filled with fingertip debris, and the alloy work hardens, both of which make the strings get stiffer and thus affect pitch and intonation.

I tend to change mine whenever the higher harmonics start sounding dull, but it's really a matter of personal taste.

~S~

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: canoer
Date: 23 Feb 00 - 03:27 PM

Thanks, both. I like knowing the metallurgy. But -- but -- does this mean that I never will find strings that are an unalloyed delight? (well ...sometimes they just won't stay repressed)...

Subject: RE: Help: 80/20 strings???
From: Easy Rider
Date: 24 Feb 00 - 09:42 AM

Scotsbard:

Your metallurgy sounds spot on. It leads to the conclusion that those Gore-Tex covered, Elixer strings are a waste of money. Even though they don't get dirty, they work harden, which changes their tone anyway.