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Camsco vs: CDNow
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Subject: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Chef Date: 19 Sep 00 - 10:23 AM I've bought many CDs from Camsco without questioning their prices and practices. Someone told me, though, that I'd get a better deal at CDNow. So, I decided to compare the prices on what I've decided is my next purchase, the new CD by Jody Stecher. Camsco = $12.98 CDNow = $12.34 I can understand that a small operation like Camsco needs to charge a little more for the product. The 5% difference would not have made me switch from Camsco to CDNow. But then I factored in the shipping charges. Camsco = $4.20 CDNow = $2.99 That is a whopping 40% difference. It seems to me that Camsco is hiding its true prices within inflated "shipping" charges. Needless to say, I made the order at CDNow. I am on a limited budget and have been ordering about one CD a month. With the difference in shipping charges, I could have had an extra two or three CDs in the past two years if I had known what Camsco was doing. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: MMario Date: 19 Sep 00 - 10:28 AM did you ever consider the fact that shipping and handling expenses are higher for a small outfit? |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: catspaw49 Date: 19 Sep 00 - 10:42 AM I'm sure Mr. Greenhaus will be along to discuss this, but to me its a simple matter of loyalty to Dick or Sandy Paton for that matter. I understand the financial angle all too well, but if they have it, I'd just as soon buy from them. "You got to make it off your friends 'cause your enemies won't dela with you.".........Denny Smith, best friend and an honorable businessman explaining why our shop didn't back up to oue pricing. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: dwditty Date: 19 Sep 00 - 10:45 AM Believe me, there are no untoward efforts going on at Camsco (or Folk Legacy, for that matter). Just plain folks trying to get great music out at fair prices. If you don't want to shop there, fine. I resent the implication that Camsco is "doing" something, though. dw |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: M.Ted Date: 19 Sep 00 - 10:51 AM Why would they be higher? The opposite seems more likely to be true--the larger the volume, the more labor intensive--in a small place, the order can be often be taken filled, and shipped by the same person. In a large place, there are people to take the order, fill it, ship, as well as people whose job is to manage the flow of the orders. Anyway, you should check Elderly Instruments when you're shopping for folk and traditional stuff, their prices are generally very low for CD's and tapes, and they do nice little reviews on many of their offerings (shipping and handling costs are low, as well!) |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Date: 19 Sep 00 - 10:55 AM ...and the two specialists often have material the "big boys" won't bother with (small labels, short production runs)and you get a great personal service from Sandy and Dick. (AND US prices for CDs, even with postage and the duties that the vigilant UK customs sometimes add on [especially if they recognise a "CD-Now"-type package] are a lot cheaper than over here. RtS |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: MMario Date: 19 Sep 00 - 10:59 AM believe me, they are higher. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: GUEST,Bigchuck at work Date: 19 Sep 00 - 11:00 AM The other point that should be made here is that CAMSCO is a small operation that is trying to maintain a stock of pretty obscure and non-commercial recordings that sell in low numbers without having high volume sellers to help support the operation. I suspect that _much_ of Camsco's catalog is not and would not be available from a mass-market operation such as CDnow. For me the bottom line is that it is worth paying a bit more to insure that the music I love continues to be available. Believe me, CDnow doesn't give a shit about "keeping the music alive"; Dick and Sandy do, and that is enough for me to continue giving them my patronage. Sandy in Vermont
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Chef Date: 19 Sep 00 - 11:02 AM MMario, If the shipping charges are higher for a smaller outfit, as you suggest, then why does Folk Legacy charge $3.00? That is only one penny more than CDNow; virtually the same. I cannot believe that Camsco's shipping charges are 40% higher than Folk Legacy's. No, it is obvious that Camsco hides its higher prices within its inflated shipping charges while Folk Legacy and CDNow reflect a seemingly more honest cost. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Mbo Date: 19 Sep 00 - 11:21 AM Well folks, I suppose we can't hide it any longer. Yes, Camso's higher shipping prices are financing a planned military coup of The North Pole, where once Santa's Workshop is captured, his elves will be cheap labor, as they use Santa's Sleigh to hand deliver your CD's, and at a lower price, so you don't have to transfer that extra $2.70 from your secret Swiss bank account. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Chef Date: 19 Sep 00 - 11:29 AM dw, I cannot believe that you would excuse the guest's racist views if he'd had the guts to not post anonymously. When I posted the comparison between Camsco and CDNow, it was certainly not to give that bigot an opening. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Midchuck Date: 19 Sep 00 - 11:30 AM Not only is that kind of racism stupid, but it misses the point that Dick is a BANJO PLAYER. It's much more fun to pick on him for that than for any real or imagined racial or ethnic category. Peter. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: dwditty Date: 19 Sep 00 - 11:41 AM Easy, Chef There is no way I condone Guest's views. I just can't bring myself to be so presumptuous as to think I can control some else's thoughts. What I meant to say is that Guest is a coward for not owning up to his views. Even if I think he is an asshole for expressing them, which I do, I would rather not be in a position to determine what *thoughts* of another are right or wrong, and I appreciate when others don't try to determine which of these my thoughts are. As Frank Zappa said, "Who Are the Brain Police." Your point is well taken, though. My last post was not worded to make the point I was trying to get across. dw |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: catspaw49 Date: 19 Sep 00 - 11:42 AM Well stroked Meebo. When I read it, I thought I had posted it. .......I'm worrying now about my influence on you. Cheap shot Guest....You're a gutless wonder. I think dw meant that although we might fight about the remark, we're equally offended by someone without the guts to stand behind it if that really is the belief. just another pissant flamer. Chef, I think you are looking for a rat under a streetlight. Its hard to perceive "tone" in the written word, but it seems as though you really believe Dick is out to shaft someone. BTW, I like Elderly too and I often reference them re: instruments and such......but Mudcat gets squat from an Elderly purchase. I also recently found out that BigChuck works in a store which I will post in the Links. I guess I'm just old fashioned, but I like giving my money to people I know when I can. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: katlaughing Date: 19 Sep 00 - 11:46 AM One major point that noone has posted is that buying from Camsco directly supports the DT and the Mudcat. Do 2-3 more CD's really make that much difference over the course of two years? Personally, I'd rather support a friend and spend a bit more than support a large, faceless entity. It is ridiculous and insulting to suggest that Dick Greenhaus is anything but totally honest in his business ops. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: GUEST,Ernie Taylor Date: 19 Sep 00 - 11:47 AM I find that I get very good service from Tower Records. They charge $2.95 for shipping. Ernie Taylor |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: catspaw49 Date: 19 Sep 00 - 11:54 AM Tower doesn't support Mudcat either. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: dwditty Date: 19 Sep 00 - 11:55 AM Rich Gallagher |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Mbo Date: 19 Sep 00 - 11:56 AM You better not pout, you better now cry You better watch out, I'm telling you why Santa Claus is coming to town He sees you when you're sleeping He knows when you're awake He knows when you've been bad or good So be good for goodness sake! |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: dwditty Date: 19 Sep 00 - 12:02 PM Mbo, You haven't heard Santa Claus is Coming to Town until you've heard Joseph Spence do it. dw |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Mbo Date: 19 Sep 00 - 12:03 PM Hey, do you get your rare music or not? I rest my case. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Mark Clark Date: 19 Sep 00 - 12:23 PM GUEST: The content of your post is painful to the many good people who make this site what it is. It is also offensive to all decent and reverent people. I realize that your expression of hatred probably stems, in some way, from your own pain. In the hope that you would like to lay down your burden of pain, let me recommend Gary Zukov's book "The Seat Of The Soul". I think you'll find the time spent reading it well worth your while. Peace, - Mark |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Naemanson Date: 19 Sep 00 - 12:28 PM Ladies and Gentlemen and kids of all ages! In the center ring, snarling and biting at the crowd is our own resident gutless bigot. Don't stare too long or he'll wither into insubstantiality. Don't get too close or he'll splatter you with his slime. Notice the green skin, the staring bloodshot eyes, the yellow streak down his back as he lashes out in all directions trying to raise some reaction from the crowd. (Please don't laugh at the beast, kid. See how he shrinks when you do that?) Yes, ladies and gentlemen, this is hate personified. Tremble in fear at it for there is nothing you can do about him. (Please stop laughing, kid, you're killing him. And no, that isn't a zipper. This is not a man in a rubber suit, kid. There ain't no man in there at all.) And now ladies and gentlemen in the ring on your left...
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: mousethief Date: 19 Sep 00 - 12:30 PM My momma always said if you ignore rude people they will have less cause to speak up.
Alex |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Naemanson Date: 19 Sep 00 - 12:59 PM You're right MT but I couldn't help myself. I generally stay out of these things but I hate bigots. (Uh, oh, does that make me a bigot too?) Philosophical balance loss! Unable to correlate! Initiate sutdown procedures!
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: catspaw49 Date: 19 Sep 00 - 01:06 PM Yeah Naes, I notice you already have gottn the "h" out of there. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: IvanB Date: 19 Sep 00 - 01:18 PM 'Guest,' although it's true that 'dwditty,' or 'catspaw49,' or 'kat/katlaughing,' etc. can maintain a certain anonymity with their handles, it's also true that because they have joined and selected a handle, I can expect that their posts will always be from the same real-world person. By virtue of that fact, each of us who is a member, as well as those guests who consistently append a unique 'moniker' to the guest appellation, take a certain responsibility for the statements made in our posts. Sure, the responsibility's only 'virtual,' but most of us here are quite sensitive to how we're received on the forum. With your inflammatory and gutless post as 'Guest,' you do nothing more than make us wary of all who would post as guests, whether they have serious and cogent posts or not. So why don't you and you pea-brain wander on over to a forum where your racist views would get you more strokes, or is it that you just get your jollies by pot-stirring? And mousethief, although I generally agree with your mother, I believe some things must be spoken out against. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Naemanson Date: 19 Sep 00 - 01:38 PM Cannot communicate... Philosophically out of balance I hate bigots, ..generalized hatred is bigotry ....therefore I hate myself ......Sinking ........into ..........depression.... helpppp! |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: catspaw49 Date: 19 Sep 00 - 01:42 PM A tiple awaits you at the Neil Young Center for the Terminally Screwed. Do we need to send the Insanevac chopper or will you be providing your own transport? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Max Date: 19 Sep 00 - 02:00 PM Shipping charges for Camsco are leftover from when Wally McNow ran Camsco. Wally is a good guy, as is dick, so I would certainly not question their integrity. I will check with dick to see if there needs to be a change in policy. This conversation got out of control, but the point remains we lost a sale and therefore support because of it. This just means we'll take a look at the situation. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Joe Offer Date: 19 Sep 00 - 02:27 PM I've placed several orders with CDNOW, and several with Folk-Legacy and with CAMSCO. If I average out the prices and include shipping, the prices come out pretty-much the same. One big difference - CDNOW has to charge me 7.75 percent California sales tax, and CAMSCO and Folk-Legacy do not. Besides, it's more fun to deal with CAMSCO and Folk-Legacy, and they know the music. If you do order from CDNOW, Amazon, or Barnes & Noble, think about going through our "Support the Mudcat" page so Mudcat will get a percentage. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Jeri Date: 19 Sep 00 - 03:50 PM Anybody who doesn't know this, should. The more a business sells, the lower they can afford the prices to be. Higher quantity = lower prices. I prefer to deal with local owner-operated businesses than Wallmart, even if I'm going to pay an bit more. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 19 Sep 00 - 04:08 PM My only quarrel with Camsco is delay. I ordered a couple CDs about three or four weeks ago, received confirmation emails, but have seen no sign of the merchandise. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: John Hindsill Date: 19 Sep 00 - 11:11 PM Sorry that I got to this thread so late. I think this is the wrong forum for Chef to complain about Camsco shipping policy, or pricing for that matter. If he is unhappy with them, his first complaint should be to them rather than trashing them with innuendo of hidden motive.
Every business charges for product and service based on their various costs-acquisition of product, inventorying same, labor and shipping-plus something for profit.
Not all companies buy at the same price, owing to volume purchasing or lack thereof; not all have the same labor costs, more or fewer employees (or none); rent or no rent. There are many factors.
If the service is generally good, perhaps it is worth an extra buck or two. If that extra supports one of the few entities willing to handle esoteric products, that, too, may be worth it.
Were I the object of Chef's comparison, I would be unhappy. Were I the subject of his innuendo, I would be mightily pissed-off. John Hindsill PS-I most always shop independant music stores and book stores when I can. And I never trust e-commerce with my credit card #s. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: thosp Date: 19 Sep 00 - 11:15 PM first - i ehco Jeri re the bussiness aspect - when you have a high volume operation you can afford to take a smaller (per unit) profit margine --- also as stated above Camsco & Folk Legasy carry a selection you just can't get at the giant guys - because of limited appeal --- next i have called Dick G at Camsco on various occasions to get cd's for me that nobody (big or little)was carrying and Dick was able to get for me --i.e.Lil Rev --- and ic currently tracking down that Pigmeat collection that was discussed on another thread ---- regards the difference in shipping 4.20 - 2.99=1.21 x 12=14.52 = not quite 1 cd a year when you add in whoevers shipping --- you don't know Dicks' overhead (i.e. dept from recent purchase of Camsco ,rent,advertising etc.) plans to expand (?) and again whatever ----- so all things considered - i suggest you give it more thought -- i will very happily pay an extra dollar (or more) because if Dick and Sandy dissappear -just try and call Amazon or CDNow to get some of the music that many or most Mudcatters are interested in -- it won't happen ---- and i don't mean anything against the big guys -- they are a different opparation --- peace (Y)thosp |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: bbelle Date: 20 Sep 00 - 01:06 AM Has anyone noticed that both Dick and Sandy live in 30 room mansions, teeming with servants and the like? Get real ... so you pay a couple dollars or a few cents more. It's called "L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y" for anyone who can't spell. These two men are a few years older than I (thank g-d someone is!) and have been instrumental in keeping that music alive, than we so love. I cannot stand anyone who quibbles over a buck. And I would rather give that extra buck to a friend than to a megacorp, anyday. Chef, I noticed your first day of posting was September 18. Jumped right in there didn't you. Gonna tell all us nabobs the errors of our ways. We are gettin' took by the likes of Dick Greenhaus and Sandy Paton. Can you imagine! Did I miss something above? I kept seeing these references to racist and kept reading up and down the threads. Then I thought that somehow the racist posts had creeped into this one. I feel a little like Ingrid Bergman in "Gaslight."
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Wolfgang Date: 20 Sep 00 - 06:49 AM Jenny, a forum search lists about five more posts, three from a GUEST, than you can read here. These post must have been deleted. From what I know, how reluctant the Mudcat elves are to delete posts, I fully trust in them that I wouldn't have liked to read these posts anyway. But I agree that seeing references to posts that do not exist any more makes you feel you cannot read correctly (I also read twice). Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: catspaw49 Date: 20 Sep 00 - 07:42 AM You are correct Wolfgang, and though we may all abhor censorship, the stuff couldn't even be called vile without giving vile a new meaning. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: bbelle Date: 20 Sep 00 - 07:43 AM Wolfgang ... I've read enough hate in the last few months to last me a lifetime, so I don't have the desire to read whatever was written. A reference to the fact that there were deletions would have been nice, though ... it was like everyone else knew something I didn't! Then again "curiosity killed the cat." |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Chef Date: 20 Sep 00 - 10:24 AM People like Moonjen have accused me of disloyalty and slander against Camsco and Folk Legacy for pointing out the inflated shipping charges at Camsco. First of all, leave Folk Legacy out of that. I pointed out that Folk Legacy's charges are virtually the same as CDNow's. It's been said repeatedly in this thread that small companies like Camsco and Folk Legacy have to charge more for shipping than big companies like CDNow and Tower. Well, Folk Legacy charges the same. It is only Camsco that charges more. My interpretation is that Camsco is making their price appear competitive with the major outlets and then hiding their true price in the shipping charges. As for the service, I have waited at least two weeks and as much as several months for deliveries from Camsco. I have ordered more than 25 CDs from them in the past couple of years. On Friday, I made my first order from CDNow. It arrived this morning, only five days later. With the difference in prices and shipping charges, I have paid about $50.00 more to Camsco than I would have to CDNow. Enough for about three more CDs. On my budget, $50.00 is a lot of money. BTW, I made the order at CDNow through the link at the website of Sing Out, the folk music magazine. Sing Out says that ordering through that link helps support the magazine. I have been a subscriber to Sing Out since long before Mudcat, or even the internet itself, existed. You have no right to question my loyalty. Moonjen, I don't think I want to be around judgemental people like you. GOODBYE MUDCAT!
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Jeri Date: 20 Sep 00 - 10:51 AM Chef, it wasn't the fact you asked the question, it was your apparent eagerness to assume Evil Motives, as with the statement "..it is obvious that Camsco hides its higher prices within its inflated shipping charges while Folk Legacy and CDNow reflect a seemingly more honest cost." Note words "hides" and "more honest." It's not surprising people reacted to your innuendo. Bye. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: mousethief Date: 20 Sep 00 - 10:55 AM Chef: don't let the door hit you in the butt.
Alex |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: GUEST,Mudcat member, not a guest Date: 20 Sep 00 - 01:08 PM For the record, I am a member of Mudcat. I deleted my cookie so that I could make this post without having some people come down on me personally. This experience with Camsco happened two or three years ago, when it was still Wally Macnow's operation. In the past, I had purchased quite a few cd's from Camsco. Sometimes delivery took a long time, but I never questioned the prices. I was at the Champlain folk festival in Vermont where Wally had a Camsco booth selling cd's. and I saw he had the amazing box set of nine cd's on Bear Family, Songs For Political Action. The price was $350.00. Wally told me that his cost was over $300.00 and that he couldn't afford to sell it for less. As much as I knew I'd have to have it. I decided to wait to buy it. When I got home, I checked CDnow and their price was $212.00. WIth shipping it was a little less than $220.00. Then I checked the website for Bear Family Records. Their price was in Deutche marks, but when the conversion was done to U.S. dollars, I was able to order the set and have it shipped to me for $192.00. If I as an ordinary consumer could get it from the manufacturer for less than $200.00, why would it cost a dealer more than $300.00. My conclusion was that Wally was not being straight with me. Since then, I have not bought from Camsco. Now, I know that Dick now owns Camsco, not Wally. But, I would like to know why it costs him $4.20 to take a cd, put it in a box and mail it, but, it only costs Sandy $3.00 to do the same thing? |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: GUEST,The Phantom Lurker Date: 20 Sep 00 - 01:17 PM No matter what the "tone" or "implications" or "innuendoes" of Chef's original message, he has a valid point and a legitimate complaint. Responses that focus on his "tone", "implications", or "innuendoes" raise those issues simply as a smokescreen to avoid addressing that valid point. Such responses turn the Mudcat exchanges into a game of "Mother May I". The respondent says "Since you didn't ask the question or raise the issue with exactly the right phrasing it is OK for me to ignore your point and jump all over you." No one who has lurked Mudcat for any length of time would be the least bit surprised at the royal reaming that Chef got. Everything from his shoe size to her ancestry was called into question. But that's how Mudcat insiders normally deal with outsiders who say the wrong thing. For all the touchy-feely, warm and fuzzy, good vibrations, sanctimonious talk that goes on a Mudcat, one really needs a pretty thick skin to be able to stick with this forum. For all the nice things that are said to newbies, they'd better know their place. But.... All that is just fine with me! When I can no longer stand the heat, I'll leave the Mudcat kitchen. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Ferrara Date: 20 Sep 00 - 01:28 PM Chef, don't know if you're still reading this.... I have known Dick Greenhaus (aka Camsco Records as of this date) for about 25 years and he is absolutely NOT a money-hungry person. He has refused since Day 1 to allow any kind of fee for use of DigiTrad or membership in the Mudcat Cafe. He is also not the kind of person to carefully calculate his shipping charges to surreptitiously raise the price of his merchandise. He bought Camsco for love not profit, this I know... he talked it over with me and a lot of other people to be sure they didn't feel it would be a conflict of interest. He ain't gettin' rich on it. Wally wasn't gettin' rich on it either, and he was no longer willing to do so much work for so little money. Dick (and maybe Susan Friedman as well) make up the entire staff of Camsco. That means that shipping CD's cuts into his time, there is no smooth shipping department whose job it is to get the stuff out. It also means that shipping may be late. The thing is, nobody ever said that Camsco was cheaper than anyone else. It's just better, in the sense that Dick is dedicated to keeping the music alive. He handles a lot of requests every month that don't get him a penny: for example, referring people to obscure overseas labels if he can't get what they want as cheaply as they can order it themselves. All those referrals, and his skill in finding the almost-lost music that people are searching for, are worth something. Some people are interested in contributing to that; some need to watch their budgets and find the least expensive source they can. It shouldn't be a value judgment either way. I suspect from what Max said above, that the discrepancy in shipping fees was inadvertent. Or maybe it just reflects the fact that there's no inexpensive hired help to do the job. In either case, it was the implication that the higher shipping fees are a scam of some kind, that ruffled a lot of people's feathers. Had you just asked, "What's going on? I can't afford to pay more...", I suspect you would have been spared the grumpy rebuttals that have upset you. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: thosp Date: 20 Sep 00 - 01:38 PM actually i can't believe that all this is about $1.21 --------- again i want to point out that many of the selections available you just can't get from the big companys ----- i have many times (before i found Mudcat)spent monthes looking for certain records/cass/cd's -many times without sucess --- AGAIN i want to point out that Dicks' overhead (especially since it's a recent aquisition for him)is a factor in his pricing -- if he chooses to add it in with the shipping price WHAT'S the problem -- there is Nothing devious about it ---- If you don't like the overall price DON'T BUY IT ----- PBS charges a lot more for easily available CD's -- that can be gotten for less -- and yet many people (including myself) buy from them -- are we all stupid? or have we decided that we want to pay for something more than just the item involved -- and if that means $1.21 so be it ---i pay a lot more than that elsewhere peace (Y) thosp |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: annamill Date: 20 Sep 00 - 01:41 PM Phantom, those of us who know Dick, know there is no way he would cheat his customers. He has been asked repeatedly to charge for the Digital Tradition Database and stands fast. It will be free to all!! If some of us seem harsh in the dealings with Chef, it's only in defense of a wonderful man. Unfortunately, Chef was a new poster, and doesn't know Dick the way we oldies do and some of us did jump on him as if he was attacking a member of the family. ;-) It's hard to see someone like our Dick Greenhaus who is so generous and kind being hurt and I'm sure this hurt him. As Max says, if a mistake was carried over from the previous owner, it will be corrected. Love, annamill
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Jim the Bart Date: 20 Sep 00 - 01:48 PM As I have pointed out in other postings, I believe it is necessary to forgive people who at times speak harshly in defense of something that matters to them. This would apply to Camsco, the Mudcat, or ones personal honor. Thick skin is a good accessory when "conversing" with people whom you haven't met on a face-to-face basis. Maybe if we don't immediately assign motives and assume the best intentions instead(and I know what happens at times when you "ass-u-me"), we can stay out of the accusatory mode. Remember that it is easy to mis-speak or mis-represent yourself unintentionally when you're firing off a post. I applaud the removal of the "vile" posting and don't mind at all censorship of that sort by the keepers of the 'Cat. Lord knows they extend us all a lot of leeway. This is the first time I've heard of Camsco or Folk Legacy (yeah, for an old guy I haven't been around much). Are there links? (I'm also a lazy guy, I guess). I like doing business with nice folks,too, and this being an-open-market-capitalist-type system, I'd like more choices to explore when buying my favorite kind of music. Peace and relaxation to all, Bartho |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: dwditty Date: 20 Sep 00 - 01:58 PM It seems that those that want CAMSCO's prices to "be in line" should be saying the same thing about our entire economy. Prices for the same item varies all the time-even from the same place. Bought a car recently? I bet you did not get the "best" deal that was ever struck at that dealership. If you want to shop price, and the internet makes that easier than ever, go ahead. You can no doubt find a better price that CDNow. Just because somebody charges a higher price than someone else, they are not automatically guilty of some devious scheme to get your $1.21. Hey, maybe Dick is just not as good a business man as the folks at CDNow (and from the standpoint of having access to music that we want, not just what sells in big volume, that is a *good* thing), and it costs him more to get the deal done. Maybe when the whole staff is away (recent trip to England), shipments are delayed. If these things bother you, go ahead and shop where you get satisfaction. Just please don't insinuate that anyone that does not price goods and services to your standards is out to rip you off. Chef,If you PM me address, I will send you the $50 it has cost you to do business with CAMSCO, and we can all move on to shop where and when we want. dw |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: bbelle Date: 20 Sep 00 - 02:05 PM dw ... would you send it to me, instead? Dick and Sandy, both, have a ton of cd's I'd like to have ... just PM me the draft |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: GUEST,I'm with Chef Date: 20 Sep 00 - 02:20 PM All of you people dumping on Chef should go back and read his first post. Chef pointed out that the price at Camsco was higher than at CDNow. He said he understood that and didn't mind. That's the difference in dealing with a small company vs. a big coroporation. What he objected to was the difference in shipping costs. Does it cost Dick more to ship or is he hiding a higher price within the shipping costs? Folk Legacy charges the same as CDNow for shipping. I don't believe Dick's costs are higher than Sandy's. If Dick's cost to sell CDs is higher than CDnow's, then it is quite legitimate for him to price the product higher. Let him charge $13.98 instead of $12.98. But don't hide the price difference in a phony shipping charge. You know, some of you make out that Mudcat is such a wonderful, open place. You deny that it is cliqueish. But when someone steps out of the Mudcat party line, you destroy them and prove again and again what a clique you are. THAT'S WHY SO MANY PEOPLE POST AS GUESTS. THEY DON"T NEED THE ABUSE OF THE MUDCAT CLIQUE. Just watch now, the clique is about to start flaming me. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: dwditty Date: 20 Sep 00 - 02:36 PM Guest, I'm in with Chef, The point I tried to make in my last post was that people can charge whatever they like for their goods and services. You seem to indicate that because Co A and Co B charge a certain price for a service (shipping, which by the way is not the same thing as "postage"), that Co Camsco has an obligation to you and Chef to charge the same amount. Last time I checked, we were still operating in a free enterprise (Oh, no, there's a whole new discussion), which, in this case, I interpret as Camsco can charge whatever they want or need to. You, as a consumer in that system, can elect to buy or not. Why do you need to cast aspersions on a seller other than to say the price was higher. Had Chef simply stated that initially, no problem. Hell, maybe that was even his main point, and I think it was. (Sorry, Chef, I didn't mean to assume that you are a male.) My only problem is that when someone that I think is working hard for what I consider a common good (keeping the music alive), and someone else comes along and accuses them of being devious, I object, and will say so. I don't even know Dick Greenhaus and wouldn't recognize him if I bumped into him. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: M.Ted Date: 20 Sep 00 - 02:58 PM So Chef was a real bum for questioning the price of shipping, even though his comment turned out to be valid, and caused the charge to be re-evaluated, and hopefully, changed-- This is the sort of attitude that I has bothered me for years--it is has the feel of the "lock-step" "toe the party-line", "All of us are equal, but some are more equal than others" mentality-- "Don't criticize, the ones at the top know better than you, --you're new, you don't understand, stay in your place, this is a question of Loyalty"all are brought in to play to defend everything from mediocre musicianship, to inept business practices, and blatant favoritism in bookings, billings, and playing opportunities-- When the whole staff of CAMSCO is away in England, and nobody is minding the store so that orders sit,don't anyone talk about the high cost of this or that, or how cold and impersonal (or money driven) CDNow, or how the mass market doesn't want to buy the good music--and please, don't through the "LOYALTY" business at me, because the problems lie elsewhere--
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: IvanB Date: 20 Sep 00 - 03:16 PM Having a good local source for most of the folk music CD's I want, I've never ordered from CAMSCO. But I'm not sure the Mudcat Forum is the place to be griping about their shipping costs. Chef (if you're still reading this), have you contacted them personally to discuss this matter? If not, that probably would have been a more appropriate initial step. I'll neither defend nor criticize CAMSCO's business practices. But I will say that, if I couldn't get a CD locally and CAMSCO had it I'd probably order from them in appreciation of my free access to the DT. If I calculated the worth of my use of the database, I'm sure it'd have to amount to more than the cost of a few CD's. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: GUEST Date: 20 Sep 00 - 03:26 PM For those of you who say that Camsco sells the kind of music that companies like CDNow don't care about and won't sell, I just did a little comparison based on the CDs I purchased this summer at folk festivals. I went to three folk festivals. Old Songs, Champlain and Philly. In total, I purchased 17 CDs. All of them are from either small folk companies or put out by the performers themselves. They were all either traditional folk CDs or singers like Bill Staines and Eric Bogle who are very folkie. First, I searched the Camsco website. They had 3 out of the 17. I then searched the CDNow website and they had all 17, including the six Folk Legacy CDs that I bought directly from Caroline Paton. If you want a good choice of traditional folk music. CDNow is much better than Camsco.
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 20 Sep 00 - 03:56 PM I've been round here for maybe two years now, mostly under the name of DOESTERR, and I've posted a few missives that I knew weren't going to be popular, but I'd never hide my identity behind a false "GUEST" status. If I can't stand the gaff for what I post, I must not be very confident of its truth, or my own worth. Oh, and in response to some moderately controversial posts I don't consider that I've ever been flamed. Disagreed with, definitely. But, as I avoid indulging in personalities or personal criticisms, I don't feel that I've received personal vilification. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Jeri Date: 20 Sep 00 - 04:09 PM Oh, for Pete's sake, people - it's a troll! Chef had a valid point, worded like he/she wanted an argument, and nobody really got mean until the post about "jumping right in here" by moonjen. Even that wasn't a "royal reaming." These "guests" are shoveling the same old shit about cliques because they (or it) knows people will get pissed off and respond. Somebody's bored again... To the last guest - if you bought CDs at Old Songs, and they weren't Folk Legacy recordings or on the performers' table, you bought them from Camsco. I don't know about Champlain and Philly. Dick probably has 'em - he just doesn't keep the website updated. (I'd whine about that if I thought they had the time to mess with the website.) He has also said, if he doesn't have it, he'll do his best to get it for you. I doubt CDNow would do that. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: dick greenhaus Date: 20 Sep 00 - 09:25 PM ...sigh.. THe $4.20 for shipping, if anyone noticed, covers up to $35 worth of merchandise. CAMSCO charges more than CDNOW for shippine one CD; but that charge dives way down if you order more than one. If this seems like a sneaky way to encourage multiple sales, so be it. The CAMSCO catalog is sadly in need of upgrading and updating. Mea Culpa. What's actually the case is that I'll get you any folk or folkish CD currently in print at a competitive price. If you find what you want at CDNow or Amazon.com, try contacting me for current price and availability (BTW, the Songs For Political Action set mentioned above goes for $210 at CAMSCO; $212.87 at CDNow). Delays in delivery, unfortunately, are a problem. These stem from several causes: Most recently, I was in England for a few weeks and got behind. Generally, though, delays occur when distributors are slow in responding to orders. This is most sever when I must special order from England, Scotland or Ireland.
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: dick greenhaus Date: 20 Sep 00 - 09:41 PM Oh yes- about Bear family Recordings. Bear Family will not sell directly to a dealer in the US; they sell only through a distributor. US prices, as a result, are sometimes out of line with direct purchases, usually due to varying exchange rates. The only reason CAMSO carries Bear Family Recordings is because most customers don't want to go through the hassle of overseas orders, with the attendant problems of currency exchange and international payments. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Big Mick Date: 21 Sep 00 - 06:35 AM Well, dammit Dick, now you have gone and done it.......................I was just buying into the theories that you were conspiring with International Terrorists to bring down Folk music by inflating the cost to where only the Yuppies could afford it, hence changing the audience and making us sing "na na, na na na, hey, hey, gooooooodbye" accompanied by hammered dulcimers, harps, pennywhistles and zithers. You are such a spoil sport!! I buy from Dick and Sandy because they are Dick and Sandy. Also because they have dedicated their lives to the music we love. If you leave it to the large corporations to preserve this music, the criterion used will have more to do with bottom lines than love of the music. Do I have money to burn? Nope. Am I willing to pay a bit more to support people who support that which I love? Yep. No big mystery here. Do I think Chef had a valid question? Yep. Do I think that Dick answered it? Yep. Do I think Chef went beyond the question to accusation before hearing the answer? Yep. Do I care if he left? Not my business. Do I think he was a troller? Yep, never saw him/her before, he stayed long enough to start some shite and left when a little heat got put on him/her. I believe this is just another of the flamers/trollers that have been around for a while. Just adopted another ID. Mick |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Jon Freeman Date: 21 Sep 00 - 08:13 AM Mick maybe I (and possibly you) are getting a little paraniod but I have been wondering about that possibility for a while. I suspect that there is a regular signing up under new names to stir things as he/she knows that you are more likely to get attention than as posting as a Guest. Back to the thread.. Question: Have I read anything here that would put me off dealing with Camsco? Answer: NO. Jon |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Naemanson Date: 21 Sep 00 - 10:44 AM Before lurking here at the Mudcat I never heard of any of the accused. I never heard of CAMSCO before and it was only during this discussion that I realized that the Dick Greenhaus, primier Mudcatter extraordinaire, was also a purveyor of the music I love. I am a long time supporter of the small business over the large business. In my daily real world job I have to deal with businesses in a variety of sizes. I invariably get better service and respect from the small businesses. The large businesses invariably treat me with disdain and a distinct lack of respect. It has been my experience that the large businesses are much better at hiding the real cost of things. Large businesses also do not concern themselves so much with their reputation. They have enough business in enough different areas that they can write off our little backwoods office so they don't concern themselves with our needs. Bear in mind that in all instances I am their customer. Sometimes I am buying some little amount of work valued under $25,000. At other times we work on contracts worth multimillions of dollars. Invariably it is the little guy who gives us the best service, respect, honesty, and value. Dick, I don't know you but from what I've read in this thread you can have my business from now on. I wish you the very best. Brett |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: GUEST,Wolfgang Date: 21 Sep 00 - 11:23 AM Anybody remembers Can we have some Mudcat accounts? The same preoccupation with money, the same way of making double line breaks after nearly each short sentence, the same start of just asking very politely an in principle valid question. Then why do I have such a feeling of deja vu and the impression that Chef isn't interested in a response to the question? Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Jim the Bart Date: 21 Sep 00 - 02:34 PM Whether or not Chef was legit or a troll makes not one whit of difference to me. He or she made me aware that Camsco was out there, I found it on the web and I will undoubtedly do business there soon. If this was an attempt to sink Camsco, it doesn't appear to be too successful. Does spending a whole $1.20 more on shipping by buying from Camsco mean I don't care how I spend my money? Not at all. I would rather pay someone who values this music than someone who is just moving product. I know that Camsco will continue to make this music available as long as it can stay financially viable; I know that whoever is behind CDNow will close up shop or eliminate folk choices in a heartbeat if the bottom line is not served. Read the thread on Toronto public radio for a full blown diatribe (I don't have an editor key on my machine) on the evils of relying on market forces to provide "specialty" product. As I see it, choosing Camsco is not a matter of "Loyalty to the (so-called)Mudcat Clique". It's a matter of loyalty to what you care about. Be loyal to yourself. Stand with those who share your passion. As long as you can afford to, purchase from a company that has a real interest in the music that you care about. You decide if Camsco is that kind of company. Just keep one this in mind: you may save a nickel at CDNow, but in the long run you stand to lose a whole lot more if companies like Camsco can't stay viable. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: dick greenhaus Date: 21 Sep 00 - 08:52 PM "...I know that Camsco will continue to make this music available as long as it can stay financially viable..." You mean this is supposed to be economically viable? Now you tell me! Hey Sandy! Did you know that? A final clarification. If you buy one CD from CAMSCO, Shipping and handling will cost you $4.20. If you buy several CDs, totaling up to $35, it still costs you $4.20 for the lot. IF you should be so rash as to place an order that's over $35, and up to $70, the total shipping and handling charge is a whopping $5.30. That means, if you order consists of six CDs, shipping and handling charges for each will be less than a buck. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Sandy Paton Date: 22 Sep 00 - 07:03 PM I've stayed out of this one till now, but I thought I might add a penny's worth here. I just tried to order a single paperback book from Barnes & Noble. Cost $6.50 or thereabouts. Shipping cost? $3.49 PLUS .99 fee!!! Makes Camsco look like a real bargain, doesn't it? Maybe they ship so few items their costs are higher than Dick's or Folk-Legacy's. In fact, Dick's costs are surely higher than CDNow's. They must certainly get their packing materials for a LOT less than either Dick or Folk-Legacy have to pay, because they can buy in such huge quantities. They also probably pay close to minimum wage for the shipping department labor. I have to pay my son a decent, living wage to do the packing for Folk-Legacy. With a wife and two kids, he could hardly survive on a McDonald's pay scale. Dick does his own CD packing, and I suppose he expects to be decently paid for his time, although he may come to a rude awakening when he figures out how much profit he's actually making in this new enterprise of his. Smell that coffee yet, Dick? Folk-Legacy's shipping costs go down with multiple orders, too. $3 covers shipping for up to 4 items. $4 will get you 5 to 9 items. $5 covers 10 or more! And we always ship First Class or Priority! That'll break down to $.50 or even less, per item. Are we exploiting the masses? I don't think so. Is Barnes & Noble? Well... Suffice it to say I did NOT get the book from them! $4.48 for one $6.50 paperback is pure thievery! Sandy (unreconstructed Scotsman) |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: The Shambles Date: 23 Sep 00 - 01:08 PM Hey Dick, I am still waiting (very patiently) for your thoughts on the UK trip.
I was interested when you mentioned that the UK was more into participation than performance and said that you would say more.........? Maybe not in this thread though.... |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: M.Ted Date: 23 Sep 00 - 03:02 PM Dick and Sandy, If I seemed a bit mean, I am sorry. I have worked for quite a long time as a Marketing/Promotions/Advertising person, for the greedy sector of our economy. I have helped a lot of businesses make a lot of money, and many of them didn't have products nearly as good as yours. If you like, send me a private message with contact info, and I will be glad to talk to you and work up some good, cheap, marketing ideas that will help you out-- If you don't think you need my help, look at the thread--everyone knows you both by name, but most don't know what you have for sale, and many of them don't know how to get it-- |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Susan from California Date: 23 Sep 00 - 03:43 PM Would someone who can do blue clickies please do them? :-) |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Susan from California Date: 23 Sep 00 - 03:47 PM Or we can all just do it the old fashioned way and type in www.camsco.com up where my screen ALWAYS says www.mudcat.org *BG* |
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Subject: Support the Mudcat Links From: Joe Offer Date: 23 Sep 00 - 04:02 PM Gladly, Susan: http://www.camsco.com |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Sandy Paton Date: 24 Sep 00 - 01:28 AM Here's another shocker for you. I went to Powell's web site tonight to buy a single book (Powell's is a huge bookstore in Portland, Oregon -- new and used books). In the process of placing the order, I came to their "shipping charges" section. Guess what! $4 for standard book rate, PLUS $1 PER BOOK! I canceled the order and sent them a note expressing my opinion concerning what I think are outrageous charges. Sandy |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: M.Ted Date: 25 Sep 00 - 07:57 PM It never seemed like a good idea to buy books on-line--after all, the shipping charges are factored into the bookstore price--why pay to have it shipped to Amazon or Powell's. and pay to have it shipped again to you? CD's are another story--as are rare and hard-to-find books where the cost isn't really a facto-- |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Sandy Paton Date: 25 Sep 00 - 11:24 PM Truth is, I almost never buy new books, but I'd been looking for an affordable copy of Hoffert's The Outlaws of Cave-in-Rock for years ($200 to $265 on bookfinder.com) and just discovered that it had been reprinted recently as a paperback. Went to B & N to get it, as my local "new book" stores didn't have it. Ended up biting the bullet and ordering it from Amazon (sob!). The title I was ordering from Powell's was also an older, used book. I agree: shop locally to save shipping costs AND to support independent booksellers, who need all the support they can get in order to survive in a world of Amazons online. Anybody out there got a hardcover copy of Hoffert's book for sale, cheap? Sandy |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Rick Fielding Date: 26 Sep 00 - 12:15 PM 260 bucks! Good god Sandy, what's the story on this book? I once paid 10 dollars for a particularly good episode of "The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers" (don't even ask) but you're into the major leagues with that one. Actually now that you've got me thinking about this....is their a "Holy Grail" of books that you've been searching for? For me, that holy grail was the original sound track from "The Third Man" with Anton Karras and his zither, along with the Library of Congress recording of Huddie Ledbetter singing the pre-hit song version of Kisses Sweeter than wine. Thanks to Peter T and Joe Hickerson, I've now heard 'em both......they were worth it. I didn't venture an opinion on the "Shipping charges " thing 'cause for me it's a no-brainer. I've had the pleasure of meeting Dick Greenhaus, and experiencing his droll sense of humour, social kindness and fine music. The guy's been a torch bearer for many years, and if that ain't worth a buck or two, I don't know what is. Rick |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Bert Date: 26 Sep 00 - 12:31 PM If it's books you're looking for try Bibliofind. It's a search engine that connects you to booksellers all over the world and you can often pick and choose from many vendors. Bibliofind |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: M.Ted Date: 26 Sep 00 - 03:01 PM The Collector's Choice Catalog offered a CD of Karras stuff, recorded in conjunction with The Third Man, a couple seasons ago--check their website (I must confess that I like record catalogs much more than either websites or record stores. because you can read little boxes of copy and spend hours picking and choosing) |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Rick Fielding Date: 26 Sep 00 - 09:33 PM Me too Ted. Hope Sandy sees this, I really DO want to know about that book. Rick |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Jim the Bart Date: 27 Sep 00 - 02:00 PM The Freak Brothers - What a blast from the past. I always got a kick out of the cockroaches versus Fat Freddie's Cat. Mr. Natural, too. And leave it to R. Crumb to tie comix and music together. I haven't yet heard his band, the Cheap Suit Serenaders, but I love the name. I recently took my guys to a comic book convention in Chicago and was amazed at the prices for old underground comix. Makes me glad that I kept mine. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: kendall Date: 28 Sep 00 - 02:58 PM Verbosity is not my long suit. So, I'll just say "Blood is thicker than water." |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Sandy Paton Date: 29 Sep 00 - 03:56 AM River pirates, Rick, raiding passing flatboats and barges on the Ohio river in the very early 1800s, killing passengers and crew, then taking the boats and their cargos down to New Orleans to market. Worked out of a cave on the north shore of the river in Illinois. The dreadful Harpes were there for a short time but were too vicious for even that rough and murderous crowd. A guy named Samuel Mason was head honcho at Cave-in-Rock for awhile. Later on, counterfeiting was done on premises, to be passed by a network of scoundrels. The Natchez Trace ran through the dense forests from Natchez to Nashville and was the route followed by folks who would float their produce down the Ohio and Mississippi, sell it in New Orleans, then walk home to, say, Kentucky, Tennessee or Indiana with money in their pockets. Many didn't make it; if they managed to get past Cave-in-Rock safely on the way down, they were robbed and murdered on the Trace on their way back. You can read about this bloody era in several books: Jonathan Daniels' The Devil's Backbone (a history of the Natchez Trace in the American Trails series), Paul Wellman's Spawn of Evil (a well-written story of the Harpes, Mason, Murrell and other unbelievably merciless killers and highwaymen of that time and region), or Coates' The Outlaw Years, another pretty good history of the Natchez Trace. Wellman, by the way, was the brother of Manly Wade Wellman, who wrote some fine stories about "John, the ballad hunter," whose guitar was strung with silver strings, etc., stories that are filled with folklore and magic references. These were finally gathered together into a book titled Who Fears the Devil? (if I remember correctly). I'll give you a copy of Spawn of Evil when you and Duckboots come through next month. I just happen to have two. Sandy |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Sep 00 - 07:37 AM Have you thought of opening a library Sandy? You've got more neat stuff than anybody around here. Everytime I turn around, no matter what the subject, you've acquired some great/unique/rare/wacky book(s) on the subject. Maybe a Bed and Breakfast where the guests sit around reading all day, exploring the stacks as it were. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: kendall Date: 29 Sep 00 - 03:35 PM Great idea Spaw! Sandy is a walking library himself. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Rick Fielding Date: 29 Sep 00 - 11:31 PM Thank you Mr. P. You're pretty damn literate to be a folksinger! Rick |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Sandy Paton Date: 30 Sep 00 - 12:48 AM You know I'm only a folksinger for the big money, Rick. I really wanna be a bookstore when I grow up. Sandy |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Abby Sale Date: 30 Sep 00 - 08:56 PM Hmmm. I been buying from CDNow since they went on the web. Amazon.com too. There's bunches of off the wall trad stuff they don't carry. But the real thing is that I just ordered some 20 CDs from Camsco and they're ALL there and ALL at reasonable or better prices and all from one source and why not support your local sheriff and quit farting around anyway? Besides, they promise to carry Neptune records shortly. |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: catspaw49 Date: 30 Sep 00 - 09:48 PM Gee Sandy, what a thought. What if we could all grow up that way....you could be a bookstore. Rick could be a wonderful small shop of beautiful vintage instruments; Mick could be a busy Union Hall maybe. Wow, what a thought................Then I could be..........Uh,er...........Hmmmmmmmm..............I suppose that would stick me with being one of those hole-in-the-wall joints that sells Whooppee Cushions and rubber dog shit....................Let's forget about this concept altogether. Bad idea. Just skip it. Forget I said anything. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: Big Mick Date: 01 Oct 00 - 11:49 AM So anyway, there I was, sitting for a couple of hours and trying to relax before I head out to continue to prepare for a visit from my candidate to Grand Rapids on Thursday...........it has been hell,......I just want a little break, so I fire up the Mudcat for a quick visit, ...read about the folk fogey's book that I have been wanting to hear about.......chuckle when I read how he is in folk music for the money, but wants to be a bookstore when he grows up..............come to 'Spaws post............something deep inside says put down the coffee, swallow what's in your mouth BEFORE you read the post..........I ignore the voice, after all, I am a veteran and have been through tough scrapes............I chuckle as I start to read it...........DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER.........I get to the rubber dog shit comment..........the welling up from deep below starts, I call on the training from years ago...........every bit of mental strength and stamina goes into the struggle to keep the coffee from flooding my sinus cavities.........TOO FRIGGIN' LATE.....How am I going to explain the coffee spots on the monitor and the walls of my cubby hole office to the other creatures that inhabit this ecosystem, especially the eight year old who sees right through her old man when he is trying to bullshit her into thinking it was all by design.........Oh well, off to the campaign trail where I can get a little, very little, respect. Big Mick |
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Subject: RE: Camsco vs: CDNow From: catspaw49 Date: 01 Oct 00 - 01:44 PM Sorry Mick.........but thanks. I guess there are times that being a gag shop gives a certain satisfaction. Gotta' go check my stock on cigarette loads and plastic puke. Spaw |
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