BS: American bashing

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: mousethief
Date: 11 May 01 - 06:17 PM

Social rank? What's that?

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 11 May 01 - 06:11 PM

After almost three years of American domicile, I would just like to state that I have never yet met an American who was ill-mannered in that louche, selfish, gauche fashion so beloved of the youth of council estates from London all the way to Edinburgh.

Even when driving in New York for the first time in rush hour, and having to make some questionable manouevres due to my ignorance of the city, I encountered nothing but tolerance, certainly no gratuitous rudeness.

My impression of the country is that Americans of whatever social rank simply have much better manners than their British counterparts. And that is just one of the reasons why I love being here.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: M.Ted
Date: 11 May 01 - 05:26 PM

Kevin,

It has been noted that: A) Americans believe that they are both entitled and, perhaps even obliged to provide moral instruction to the rest of the world-- B) Americans tend to view themselves as the underdog in every situation C)Many Americans view America as a gift of God to the rest of the World--

Having been educated in America during the 50's and Sixties, I can assure you that these ideas were not only encouraged, people who expressed any doubt were often severely ostracized--often by people who talked a lot like "Real American"---

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 May 01 - 04:50 PM

Some Americans do seem to be extraordinarily sensitive about any kind of comment that falls short of reverence.

I suppose it's a kind of humility. I mean people who really think they are above rational criticism don't worry about that kind of thing, because they reject any criticism as irrational and therefore not worth commenting on.

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: GUEST,Karen
Date: 11 May 01 - 04:43 PM

Well, I'M American and I would rather spend any evening conversing with a pleasant "foreigner" (Canadians included) rather than an unpleasant American (no matter how furiously he is waving the Stars and Stripes).

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: GUEST,Real American
Date: 11 May 01 - 04:39 PM

What are the countries where claiming to be Canadian rather than American would result in better treatment. Maybe it would be in the small number of nations that:

1.Haven't had their asses kicked in a war by us.

2.Haven;t had their asses saved in a war by us.

3.Don't rely heavily on American foreign aid.

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: M.Ted
Date: 11 May 01 - 04:14 PM

As per the cost of hotel rooms--London costs the same or less than the major American cities(in NYC, $160 is a good rate, $200+ is not unusual)--and, for the same money, the rooms are a bit nicer--If you think that a vacation at home would be cheaper, try to book rooms at the beach--Recently tried to find something at the Jersey Shore, and was told if I booked right that minute, they had one room left, at $175 per nite--bathroom down the hall, only three blocks to the beach--

Americans today tend to have more money than time--even the kids--we have trouble finding babysitters, because $5-6 per hour is not enough money to make it worth their while--

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: Snuffy
Date: 11 May 01 - 04:14 PM

Kendall's story about wearing a Canada pin so people won't mistake you for a US person reminds me of my own experience at the tail end of the 60's.

Five of us spent a few weeks touring round what was then Yugoslavia. Virtually nobody there spoke English, so the only way to communicate with locals was in German. We were never made to feel very welcome, until one day we came up with the magic phrase "Nismo Njemci, Inglezi smo" (We're not Germans - we're English). From then on we received the most fantastic welcomes everywhere we went.

I suppose claiming to be Canadian would have similar results in many parts of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: GUEST,Real American
Date: 11 May 01 - 03:40 PM

Hey Boab,

Massive amounts of American aid was helping you folks long before we "officially" became involved in the war. And the reason we were "late" getting involved is because all of you clowns were the ones that started it, not us. We just finished it.

And yes, a hell of a lot of Russians died, but they were also doing some nasty stuff too. Remember Poland, Finland, Ukrainian Nazi collaborators, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: Jande
Date: 11 May 01 - 02:07 PM

"2)Yes missionaries can be annoying sort of like the clerk in a store who keeps asking if you need help when your just looking, but who do you go to when you finally do need help? "

Sorry... very poor analogy, IMHO, my friend. When I need help that badly I'll go to a shrink, never to a missionary! (unless, of course the store-clerk happens to also be a missionary and i need to consult on size, shape, colour, etc. ;`)

~ Jande

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: mkebenn
Date: 11 May 01 - 07:40 AM

"can amass a great fortune easily"?

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 11 May 01 - 06:26 AM

Hello a few points on some of the posts 1)Never judge a book by its cover or nationality

2)Yes missionaries can be annoying sort of like the clerk in a store who keeps asking if you need help when your just looking, but who do you go to when you finally do need help?

3)I think some of you need to read your history books better before you go saying things. Thank God Hitler never did or we might all be speaking German.Though I'm not saying that it would be bad to speak German but I would rather speak it very poorly as a free American than fluently as an enslaved one. 4)when I worked as a grocery clerk in Florida I actually got to meet a lot of people from different countries.I try to be polite with everyone and treat everyone egually.I have to admit though the majority of people who where rude to me where from Canada but not all where just lets say about 60% where.

5) Someone mentioned something about a place in England and its location from London. I made the mistake of asking an older couple if they where from London because of there accents. They however politely informed that they where from a small town some odd hundreds miles away.

6) A qoute from L.A.s very own Rodney King can't we all just get along

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: Boab
Date: 11 May 01 - 03:09 AM

To guest Real American000 Saved our asses? We're glad you arrived, eventually, friend---but may I remind you that in the first stramash, you were kicked into the fray, and in the second we had to depend on Hitler declaring war on YOU!!!!Below the belt? Sorry, but you started it. And I have a real gem of an American partner right here beside me....

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: Boab
Date: 11 May 01 - 03:02 AM

to Guest Captain insano---a good CANADIAN word--- Eh??????

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 01 - 11:14 PM

Lyle, would you believe that that joke was around in Korea?

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: CarolC
Date: 10 May 01 - 09:19 PM

Hi Fortunato. You weren't the only one who thought as you did. I'm sure it was an honest mistake for everyone who made it.

Carol

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: GUEST,fortunato
Date: 10 May 01 - 09:11 PM

CarolC. Wrong assumption. thanks for the clarification. Not my fault, I was at work and therefore not fully awake.

chance

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: GUEST,Lyle
Date: 10 May 01 - 09:10 PM

An American and a Russian are rushed to a hospital in Moscow. The American embassy is called and sends a representative down to the hospital to investigate. The embassy man asks the American what happened.

What he found out was that the American had a little too much vodka, was walking across the street, saw the Russian and said to him, "Putin in an asshole." The Russian looked at the American and said, "Bush is a bigger asshole." Well it seems they were standing there shaking hands and a car hit them.

Moral: National leaders are puppets of the rich. Don't judge the common folk of any country by that country's politicians or their rich.

I've been to many foreign countries. When I get there, I make sure I hang out with the working folks. Never met a bad bunch yet.

Lyle

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 May 01 - 09:00 PM

I think it's a mistake to judge any country by its government, or by its tourists - or by its reaction to tourists.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: MarkS
Date: 10 May 01 - 08:39 PM

I won't mention the Hitler Stalin pact, but do I dare bring up the Treaty of Rapallo?

What was that about birds of a feather?

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: kendall
Date: 10 May 01 - 07:27 PM

I suspect that our behaviour is more a result of nurture rather than nature.

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: Amergin
Date: 10 May 01 - 07:26 PM

damn here i was hoping to bash my country again.....i guess i'll have to go off and sulk....

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 May 01 - 07:14 PM

M.Ted said: "With a little work, you can find a decent room in a decent London Hotel for 100 pounds...". A night??!! No wonder London isn't in my travel plans in the near future!! BS aside, America is a pretty nice place, and that includes the US. We have people of every conceivable type, and some that you'd need to stretch some to believe. Most US citizens are pretty moderate in most respects, although we have our extremists on the right, left, and other directions as well. As the folks in the US southeast say, "ya'll come see us, hear!".

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: M.Ted
Date: 10 May 01 - 05:54 PM

Guest, "oh well, here goes..."

I am saving your post in the hope that someday I, or someone in a future time, will be able to figure out what it is you are talking about--it sounds interesting!!

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: mousethief
Date: 10 May 01 - 04:39 PM

I'll never forget that Rocky feller. Great movie.

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: InOBU
Date: 10 May 01 - 04:31 PM

Dear Real American - out of every three dead in the war you refer to, one was a Russian. I believe the debt of gratitude for stoping Germany flows in that directions as well... They joined the Great Patriotic War, long before we did, (and don't throw up the Hittler Stalin pact at me either... Don't for get Chamberland, and Rockifeller)
All the best
Larry

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: CarolC
Date: 10 May 01 - 04:19 PM

(by here, I mean 'here in the Mudcat')

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: CarolC
Date: 10 May 01 - 04:17 PM

jayohjo's been here since at least May of 2000, and she's originally from Yorkshire, England.

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: mousethief
Date: 10 May 01 - 04:07 PM

"Suragy fat food"? This is fat food from the Surag Republic, I presume? It's so hard to keep track of all the new countries.

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: GUEST,oh well here goes
Date: 10 May 01 - 04:03 PM

The remnant of White America - now rapidly being out populated by the rest of the people - are by and large very like Europeans in temperament but take one of those tanned Californians to a Paris Restaurant and there are bound to uncomfortable moments.

Thought the former are quick to realize the need for Linen and real metal table ware in Europe the latter are wondering where the nearest Burger King is at.

Loudness, since anyone in the USA can amass a vast fortune fairly easily there is no gaurantee that they be civilised or even literate. I feel some empathy with a cultured Russian who has to deal with such a person.

Missionaries, American missionaries are great fun but make not mistake they are not there to convert but to gather data for later conquest by Mc Donalds and other corporate entities.

So soon there will be Burgereskis all over the Russian Republic.

Inteligence and attention spans the American legacy. Constant mind numbing advertising has eroded the American attention span to one sentence. It is not their fault but the result of Coporate domination in a free market economy.

There are entire University departments devoted to selecting the next phychotrick to make a consumer forget the reason they are in a store and to make them WANT to buy some product. These include Mass Media hooks with in store prompts. Subliminal use of colors shapes etc. Mass market strategies like a diversity of product so large it is nearly impossible to make a comparisson between two packages. Example twenty kinds of Coffee can, all with the same grade content. America is about adevetising, pakaging , marketing and mass manipulation of how people think and what they know so they CANNOT make unwanted decisions.

The food chain and ADD - attention deficit disorder - There is so much sugar in the food chain in the USA that one hardly needs buy it seperately. This is not a result of any great scheme of the manufacturers but of the environment. For example Bread requires sugar to cause the dough to rise, wheras in Europe a little is all that is required in the Americas a great deal is necessary to gain the same effect.

Sweet potatoes and lots of sweet root crops grow well here but NOT in Europe.

Eating food in the Americas is weird for one used to European diet, since when in Eu one has a meal it feels as if it gives some support however I manny a time eat a meal in the USA only to find I am still hungry and the food merely fattens but gives no energy at all.

That is why I am utterly opposed to open EU markets to US ag products and can see why that would be a very grave error to the EU. I suspect they already know about the problem.

Why then should a diet of sugary and fattening foods contribute to ADD, I suppose the brain has a primitive mechanism that closes down and says GO TO SLEEP when the body is overloaded with Suragy fat food.

If I was in Russia I would keep to Russian foods and not eat in the Burgereskies.

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: CarolC
Date: 10 May 01 - 03:43 PM

jayohjo, where are you from, originally?

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: Fortunato
Date: 10 May 01 - 03:36 PM

Welcome to the Mudcat Jayohjo. I hit this thread by accident, glad I did though so I can welcome you. Your language skills are impressive. I hope you come often and share knowledge of folk music and traditions in your county. Do you have traditional circus music there, one of our family is seeking this sort of thing.

I'm curious what lead you to the Mudcat.

As to Americans, well we're a disparate lot. I suppose you could sort us into two groups, however, those who know when to keep their asinine comments to themselves and those who don't. We've no shortage of the first catagory, but I imagine you have them in your homeland as well. The people in the second catagory are harder to spot.

Best of Luck, Fortunato

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: Fortunato
Date: 10 May 01 - 03:36 PM

Welcome to the Mudcat Jayohjo. I hit this thread by accident, glad I did though so I can welcome you. Your language skills are impressive. I hope you come often and share knowledge of folk music and traditions in your county. Do you have traditional circus music there, one of our family is seeking this sort of thing.

I'm curious what lead you to the Mudcat.

As to Americans, well we're a disparate lot. I suppose you could sort us into two groups, however, those who no when to keep their asinine comments to themselves and those who don't. We've no shortage of the first catagory, but I imagine you have them in your homeland as well. The people in the second catagory are harder to spot.

Best of Luck, Fortunato

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: GUEST,GUEST outlander
Date: 10 May 01 - 02:50 PM

I'm a US citizen, and worked for banks among other vile institutions, and have conducted myself politely when in other nations. It's common courtesy.

I've been incensed at others I've worked with who refused to extend common courtesies to other human beings simply because they didn't share US citizenship.

We're all human beings. Might as well face it -- US citizenship does NOT confer anything other than a US passport and the rights guaranteed therein. It doesn't make you on whit better than the other nationals with whom you work.

mh

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: M.Ted
Date: 10 May 01 - 02:50 PM

Alex,

I have spent a lot of time in France in the last couple of years, and have never found any of the sort of rudeness that is attributed to the French, even in Paris. Even though I speak mostly English, I have found most people will talk to me--even when, as KimC mentions above, the exchanges are mostly waves and gestures--

Given that, their do tend to think that the French way is the right one, and that no situation can be properly addressed unless the French view is at the core of it--some find this, combined with a certain sort of directness that is charactistically French, to be difficult to deal with. (Americans, however, are pretty much the same)

However, they listen to what you have to say attentively, always make sure that there is plenty to eat and drink, and never bump into you. step on your feet, or try to push you out of the way when you are going through a door.

And they always have great chocolate, even in the supermakets-

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 May 01 - 02:17 PM

Welcome to the Mudcat jayohjo (great spelling) if this is your first post, and even if it isn't. We need more Russians here. For one thing, I've got a balalaika on the wall, and I've never been able to work out how to play it.

Most Americans never even get passports, like most Russians. The ones that travel abroad aren't a random sample. A lot of tourist American are great people, but I suspect that the proportion of Americans who are great people is rather higher back home.

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: mousethief
Date: 10 May 01 - 02:06 PM

I have been to Italy, France, and Germany. In Italy I met exactly one native arsehole; the rest of the people I interacted with were unfailingly pleasant. In Germany I didn't interact with anybody unpleasant. In France the natives were downright rude (unless they were behind a cash register and hoped to get money from you).

Presumably the people I ran into don't represent all of the people of France. Someday I hope to go back and let them prove my first impression wrong.

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: GUEST,Real American
Date: 10 May 01 - 01:55 PM

Yeah, Americans are a bunch of obnoxious jerks. That is, until you need them to save your sorry asses from the Germans. Then we are everyone's best friend.

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 May 01 - 01:51 PM

Yup... there's no' as queer as folk eh...

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: M.Ted
Date: 10 May 01 - 01:45 PM

Contrary to Kendall's assertion, international air fares are now so cheap that almost anyone who is inclined to do it can (I saw tickets to London offered for $328 round trip while at the mall yesterday)--With a little work, you can find a decent room in a decent London Hotel for 100 pounds, which is not hard to pay off on the VISA, especially if you are a couple of the clones that pile the commuter trains here every morning, and started your job a couple years out of school at $40k or more.Or it can be comfortably divided by three or four young sales associates from Walmart who will also find that they spend the same or even a bit less at the London clubs than in the ones at home--

At any rate, for every jerk American tourist acting badly in a public place, there are often a dozen or more discreetly hidden among the onlookers, inconspicuously dressed and as often as not, fluent in the native language-

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: GUEST,Captain Insano
Date: 10 May 01 - 01:44 PM

Some might question our sanity, but our music is the envy of the world. And if Canadians don't want to be mistaken for Americans then they should quit blindly imitating us.

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 01 - 12:40 PM

People are so diverse and even 'rich Americans' vary. Here at the house museum where I live, I just hosted a catered dinner/evening for a group of 15 tourists from all over the world but mostly American. (The promoter is based in San Diego, California)

They were wonderful, interesting people. I didn't talk with one of them that I wouldn't like to know better. They were happy, interested and appreciative.

There was one difference between this tour group and others that may come along: these people were individually invited by the promoter to join the tour; most of them see each other at least once a year. So, in that sense, they were not typical tourists. They had identity.

I suspect that most problems stem from the anonymity people experience in strange places. (Hey, here at Mudcat we know about that.)

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: Kim C
Date: 10 May 01 - 12:38 PM

Well, it's a funny thing. I had always heard that people in Paris were very rude. I went to Paris and nobody, not ONE person, was rude to me at all. My French was limited (despite years of study!)but everyone was willing to communicate with me, even if it meant making silly hand gestures.

I think a lot of times, we fall into the delusion that the people of X country are like the people who run that country, because the people who run the country are the only ones we ever see on the TV news. But doesn't most everyone love somebody? Enjoy a good meal? Like to have fun? Worry about money? Like to dance when nobody's looking? I mean really.

It's like Sting said once, "The Russians love their children too."

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: paddymac
Date: 10 May 01 - 08:22 AM

I have heard it said that in society, as in mathematics, division is much easier than integration. We'd all be better off if we spent more time recognizing commonalities, but celebrating differences. The notion of "missionaries" is a holdover from the age of conquest, wherein the "dedicated soldiers of christ" are determined to force (they often prefer the word "bring") their version of enlightenment to those poor unfortunate, clearly ignorant, and surely superstitious natives, where ever they be found. They are generally oblivious to the irony of the metaphor. What do I really think of them? Well, if you believe in such things, I would say that God has a special place in hell reserved for them.

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: kendall
Date: 10 May 01 - 08:22 AM

I've done quite a bit of traveling, and, it seems like the wealthy Americans tend to be the obnoxious ones. Just plain folks dont get to go overseas because their family budgets dont allow it. However, we dont have a corner on the arshole market, in Jamaica, after a tourist trap activity, we were headed back to the hotel, when a group of English loons started raising hell, insulting the natives, calling them "spooks", and insisting that the driver stop so they could get more beer. There were 6 of them, and one of me, so, discretion being the better part of valor, I kept quiet. But, it has rankled me ever since.

Then again, in Barbados, I stopped in for a pint at a hotel, and struck up a chat with a Canadian. After a bit, I asked why he and so many other Canadians wear those little Canadian flag pins. He turned bright red and started to stammer. Finally, he told me that it was because they didn't want to be taken for Americans! I asked if he had a spare one, he did, and then he bought me a drink. We spent a very pleasant afternoon being ambassadors at large for our countries. I still have that pin.

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: Grab
Date: 10 May 01 - 08:00 AM

My wife worked in a T-shirt shop here in Cambridge last year. You really wouldn't believe the number of tourists she got asking for T-shirts of London. "Oh, we were only there just this morning, and it's reely close, you must sell them..." Oddly, it was only American tourists - everyone else had the concept of being in a different city sorted.

Not American-bashing, simply stating a fact. Mind you, the type of person you get on one of those package-tour see-a-country-in-5-days holidays is unlikely to be particularly gifted in the brain department... ;-)

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: InOBU
Date: 10 May 01 - 07:41 AM

Dear jayohjo:
A funny story to give you another American perspective. I grew up in an American refusnic family... I am a red diaper baby, the child of American reds. Our leftist tradition is Irish, rather than Soviet, so, we - more influenced by Connolly than by Lennin or Stalen, have a large degree of free thought through the fact that Connonly was an organiser of an anarchist union, the IWW.
Well, I have a number of friends who are ex-soviet scientists working here in the US, all of whom are hugely anti-communist and for the most part, think we American reds are nuts. They back the most right wing American politics. I spend a lot of time trying to explain the folly of a Russian refusnic supporting the status quo over here, that the community most like the anti communists in Russia, are the varrious groups on the left here (as Russian communist was as far to the right, in most cases as one could get...)
Well, one night, two Russians and I were having our usual political debate over several bottles of vodka (I had a liver then). One, asked to use the phone. My wife, reminded him that as a result of our work for Canadian natives, agaist Hydro Quebec, our phone was tapped.
Suddunly he got it. He burst out laughing and said that he finaly got what I was talking about. "I haven't spent an evening like this since leaving (what was then) the soviet union!" he said.
Another funny story, when I was in law school, a rather right wing member of one of my study groups was over having dinner at my house. At the time, we were still so poor (not that we are much better yet) that we had a toilet with a high tank and chain from the 1920's. He said, "This is why you are nuts to be a communist, Larry." he said coming out of the bathroom. "Your house is just like I emagine living in the Soviet Union would be! An overhead tank toilet, bare light bulbs... holes in the walls..." I laughed and said, "Idiot, this is not Russia... this is POVERTY IN AMERICA! That is why I'm a F**king Red! We HAVE a working class in this country that aren't doing very well... I am a red, not because I want to live like they do in Russia, but because I am the son of a kid who went down in the coal mines at 13!"
Cheers Tavarich!
Salude!
Your American cousin, Larry

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: GUEST,jayohjo
Date: 10 May 01 - 06:34 AM

Hurray! Thankyou. Guess I've just been unlucky - gnu, I know Americans are no different (I've spent 5 months explaining to my Russian class that you can't define personality by nationality). Am working as a language assistant in a small town in northern Russia - am sure I'd find good people from eveywhere in big towns, but here any Americans seem to be missionaries, which is a bit distressing. Can't wait to get travelling again and meet more people! Jo XX

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 10 May 01 - 06:33 AM

I suspect jayohjo has met organised herded-tour groups in Russia, the ones we get in UK are sometimes off-putting but individual Americans I've met at home and abroad have been a different breed and nearly as nice as the ones on the Mudcat! I'd hate to be lumped together with UK football hooligans or club 18-30 lager louts and I'm sure Wolfgang would hate to be stereotyped with the "towel on the sunbed" Germans, who are not at all like the kind people I met in Bavaria the only time I went to Germany.
As has been said, we're all different, and nationality has little or nothing to do with whether we're nice or nasty.
RtS (SAGA-lout)

Subject: RE: BS: American bashing
From: gnu
Date: 10 May 01 - 06:19 AM

Folks are folks wherever you go. Americans are no different. Where in Russia do you live that you have met only teenagers and missionaries ?