Songbook recommendations

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: GutBucketeer
Date: 24 Jul 00 - 01:41 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Alice
Date: 12 Sep 98 - 04:36 PM

refreshing for thread requesting songbooks for children

alice in montana

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Dec 97 - 11:04 AM

Yup-that's it, Joe....original cover was just the Bicentennial symbol and a lot of words.....should have known they'd re-cycle one that good!...Go get it,folkies!

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Dec 97 - 11:24 PM

Bill, I'll Betcha your "Heritage collection" by Jerry Silverman is now the two-volume Chappell book called "Jerry Silverman's Folk Song Encyclopedia," copyright 1975. It's available through Hal Leonard for $19.95 for each of the two volumes (softcover) - and I think it's worth every penny.
The first song in Volume I is "Starving to Death on a Government Claim." The last song, on page 421 of volume II, is "Byker Hill." The picture on the cover is the back of somebody wearing a blue denim jacket with an American eagle on it - you know, the breed of eagle with a stars & stripes shield on its chest and arrows and an olive branch for claws. So, is THAT the book you got, Bill? What was the original price & cover design?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Dec 97 - 07:27 PM

You know, I just realized that I have a set of songbooks that I have not seen mentioned here...nor do any of my folkie friends seem to have them.... This is a 2 volume set called
"The Heritage Collection of America's Best Loved Folk Songs"....compiled & edited by Jerry Silverman ...it says it is "the officially recognized commemorative of the American Revolution Bicentennial Administration"
....Published by Chappell Music Company 810 Seventh Ave, Ny, NY 10019 (1975) It is a very large collection, with a wide variety of songs and scores (unlike the "Folksinger's wordbook", and it seems to be pretty accurate in the versions it includes...just wondering if anyone else has it...and why it is not seen more often...Maybe they just ran off a few for the Bicentennial and quit...

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Alice
Date: 27 Dec 97 - 11:31 PM

I have to tell you about my most excellent Christmas gift this year from my best friend. He travels more than I do, so he has the chance to comb old book stores. I received a hardbound 1948 (with original dust jacket) of AMERICAN FOLK SONGS FOR CHILDREN by Ruth Crawford Seeger. What a treasure!!! and so appropriate to receive, fresh from our discussion here. In her acknowledgements, she includes the Library of Congress and its John Lomax collection. There is a short appreciation by Carl Sandburg. There are so many wise and wonderful comments she has to make regarding the making of the music (and games) and the making of the book and traditional music in general, that I cannot take the time to quote all of what I would like to share with you. Here is some:
"This kind of traditional or folk music is thoroughly identified with the kind of people who made America as we know it... Some of it came with them from other countries and has been little changed. Some of it grew here. All of it has partaken of the making of America. Our children have a right to be brought up with it."...[Are you reading this, Petra, and other young fokies? You have a RIGHT to traditional music.] "Songs like these are not finished in the sense that a piece of fine art (classical) music, or even popular music is finished. They are always ready to grow..." She quotes another author, Fletcher Collins, "These songs glorify the family as the prime social unit, for they have been raised through many centuries of family life, when everyone from grandfather down to the youngest toddler joined in...." And, as I remarked above about finding the oldest version I can and then making any changes to make the song my own, I was excited to see her chapter on "Improvising on the Words". "First become will acquainted with the song as it stands...Let the rhythm of the traditional words be something you feel comfortable with. Carry the song around with you, as children do... You may be tempted at times to take advantage of the adaptability of a song and twist it in a way unnatural to it. Remember, then, that the changes through which this music has already passed have been gradual, and that improvisation on words has for the most part come from singers brought up with music like it - singers who understand instinctively its nature and habits." Alice, thoroughly happy with her Christmas songbook gift, in Montana

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 26 Dec 97 - 10:38 AM

Hi- On a Mac, ABC4MAC and MACABC2PS will play and print ABC files nicely; REALPLAYERF plays MIDI files. The DT's lack of arangements is intentional: they take up too much space, and we don't want to put ourselves in a position where we're telling ANYBODY how to play or sing a song.

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Dec 97 - 01:00 AM

"Complex Piano Arrangements," Alice?? What are you, one of those show-offs that plays with TEN fingers, or something? A single melody is about all I can handle with my two-finger method.
Seriously, I can see what you mean - it would be wonderful to access arrangements like that whenever you needed them. Why don't you try this link and see if there's something you like? There are a number of complex midi arrangements of folk music available on the Web. The quantity of songs is not anywhere near that of the Digital Tradition, but the songs do have full arrangements. With the right software, you can print out midi arrangements.
You're a Mac person, aren't you? I don't know much about Mac shareware, but maybe Cakewalk would have a good MIDI package for the Mac. Oh - there IS sheet music available on a few Web sites - for a fee, of course. Hope you had a good Christmas.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Bloke
Date: 25 Dec 97 - 01:31 PM

If I had to be left with only one collection of American folk songs, it would be "Folk Songs of North America". It really is a gem. As mentioned above, it has songs from other collectors. Alan Lomax obviously wished to be very inclusive and to give a good broad sample of English-language North American folk song when he put it together. My 1960 edition has a map of North American folk song styles on the inside cover and a basic discussion of guitar and banjo accompaniment; they're very nice pluses. Because we're on the topic of songbooks, it's good to note that the latest edition is certain to have a good current bibliography.

For general British Isles songbooks, I like "folksongs of Britain and Ireland" by Peter Kennedy, and "Songs of England, Ireland & Scotland" by Milner & Kaplan. These are the general collections recommended at the English Folk Dance and Song Society library and both are still in print. Again, good bibliographies.

If you want Irish Songs, the best choices, I think, are... the O Lochlainn collections, "Irish Street Ballads", vols. 1 & 2 (now printed in one book) and Sam Henry's, "Songs of the People" which is a collection of some 690 songs printed in a newspaper column in Northern Ireland in the 1920's and 30's.

There are many different types of song collections. "Rise Up Singing" is obviously a quick reference book. Others are scholarly looks at regions or professions, or local community resource books, or archival collections, etc. Those that aren't great are certainly good. God bless all the people who kept a snapshot of these "songs in flight" for us!

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Alice
Date: 24 Dec 97 - 06:29 PM

I like more complex piano arrangements. alice (Mac user without money to buy more software) in montana

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Jack mostly folk
Date: 24 Dec 97 - 03:44 PM

My favorite songbook is the book that contains all my favorite songs. Until I got a computer, I always pulled songs from all the mentioned books and hand wote the lyrics and plotted the chords. I think it's called cheat sheets or fake book. My wife came up with the idea of putting the standard sheets of written songs into those nice plastic protectors. That alows one to change order , add and remove as needed. Now with the computer, one by one they are being added with nice LARGE type for old folkies to see from across the room. The collection of songs come from a variety of sources, most which are mentioned in this thread. rastrelnikov has best dsescribed the BLUE BIBLE RUS better than I've ever heard it described. I can only add that those that use the text as a menu or set list for others is really abusing the book's good points.It might be the most loved/hated book in the world of song. Of course I can't live with out it. Jack mostly folk....

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Dec 97 - 03:17 PM

There is a site called Yet Another Digital Tradition Page that has the tunes for an earlier edition of the database available in various formats, including GIF. Apparently, the best version of the tunes is the Postscript version, but I haven't figured out how to view that version - and I don't need to, since my Noteworthy Composer reads the Mudcat Digitrad midis just fine. Anyhow, the other site may be worth a peek.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 24 Dec 97 - 02:34 PM

Alice- There are several ways of getting printed scores--well, melody lines, at least--from the DT. If you download the database, you'll find the songs in SongWright format (archived). MusicEase (shareware) will convert those to printed score.

If you press the shift key when you click on the "play the tune" box when searching on the site, you'll download the MIDI file. Noteworthy Composer (also shareware) will print from MIDI. OR, Alan of Australia's MIDITEXT will convert the MIDI file to ABC; there are many ABC-to-printed scores available as shareware. I'm working on a more-or-less automatic way of doing all this, but it gets complicated, with all the different platforms and formats involved. Meanwhile, it CAN be done, and it's not very difficult.

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Sir
Date: 24 Dec 97 - 01:42 PM

I seem to remember Pete Seeger giving a quote someone else made saying that a folk song in a book is like a picture of a bird in mid-flight. You can't see where the bird has been or where it will go next. You just have a pretty good idea of where it was when the picture was taken.

I enjoy Jerry Silverman's books.

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From:
Date: 23 Dec 97 - 08:29 PM

There are many books about blues/folk musicians, and reading this thread has taught me about some I didn't know about. Does anyone know where you can read a (short) biography of some of the people who wrote these books. I am very curious about the Lomaxes. I can't find them in any of my reference books on music, or in the Encyclopaedia Britanica. I assume they were a reasonably wealthy family to hire Leadbelly as their chauffer!

Murray

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Alice
Date: 23 Dec 97 - 05:02 PM

dick, susan, and all, it sure is great that you have created the DT. Lyrics are only half the battle, though, when one is trying to find the printed notes as well. I guess that is why, until sometime in the future, the books that give me piano arrangements as well as the lyrics provide complete satisfaction. Someday, I am sure, we will get music notation on the web. So far, I have found it in a few places only for instrumental tunes. alice in mt

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Dec 97 - 12:35 PM

Far be it from me to put down books! In fact, if you wander through the DT database, you'll see that we reference sources whenever we can find them.

And, parenthetically, Dover has done a magnificent job with reprints for at least the past half-century. Check out their catalog--they recently re-released Hubbard's Folk Songs of Old New England, and may have others of interest. They're cheap, too.

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Mark Gregory
Date: 23 Dec 97 - 04:33 AM

the Digital Tradition is certainly the most amazing songbook ever made, I've got a shelf full of songbooks (in English mainly) but I calculate that DT gives me instant access to a dozen shelves of books, and it just keeps growing!!

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: dulcimer
Date: 22 Dec 97 - 09:34 PM

Let me just add that volume 1 of Ozark Folksongs by V. Randolph is British Ballads and Songs, with about 41 Child ballads. There are 130 in all. Randolph has collected several versions of lyrics and tunes for many songs. Interesting to put them side by side. Of course they are all from Ozark sources, but I don't want to get into the issue of authenticity. I have found, however, that several versions are more interesting to play and sing than versions heard by well-known artists.

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Alice
Date: 22 Dec 97 - 09:32 PM

You're right, Dick, but the look and touch of those brittle old yellow pages, the interesting illustrations from the era of their publication, the beautiful way the old bindings look stacked on the shelf, the thrill of finding a treasure in the dusty stacks or in an old cardboard box at the Salvation Army, the mysterious pencilled margin notes like "duet at Sue's wedding", or "Grandad's favorite", the preface that tells of the adventure of the author in collecting the songs, the additional references to other sources that came before..... oh, well, you get the picture. alice in mt

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Will
Date: 22 Dec 97 - 09:21 PM

You know, Dick, you might just be right about that.

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 22 Dec 97 - 08:55 PM

In all modesty (strange for me) The DIgital Tradition was intended to be the world's best songbook. I think it is. And if you people keep posting lyrics, it can only get better.

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Barry
Date: 22 Dec 97 - 04:46 PM

Stan Hugill's "Shantys From the Seven Seas", published by Mystic Seaport Museum, has been out again since 1994. As far as shanties, I would say it's the best collection ever printed. Barry

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Alice
Date: 22 Dec 97 - 03:14 PM

Frank ITS, I tried to get a copy of Sam Henry's Songs of the People through interlibrary loan, and was told that there were no copies available for inter-library. Guess it is one that is fairly often "borrowed" forever. As you all can tell by now, I try to get my tax dollars worth from the libraries. Don't have the $ or space to expand my private collection. Maybe someday. Maybe when we can find all these great songbooks through Max and the Mudcat online store. I found the Fireside songbooks in the local public library, from which I learned a couple of R. Burns songs and some obscure Christmas carols. Good family music books. Alice in MT

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Dec 97 - 02:39 PM

Frank, is that Cecil Sharp book still in print? His fame as a song collector is right up there with Child, isn't it?
Another good one is "Songs of the Sailor and Lumberman," by William Main Doerflinger. This was originally published in 1951 as "Shantymen and Shantyboys." My 1990 edition was published by Meyerbooks, Box 427, Glenwood, Illinois 60425 - priced at $19.95. I don't know if it's still in print. I found it used at a bargain price (gloat!).
Sing Out! publishes a number of songbooks other than RUS - their two "Reprints" collections are very generous collections of songs that were printed in the magazine from 1959-73. There's a labor songbook by Pete Seeger and Bob Reiser called "Carry It On"; and Pete's "Where Have All The Flowers Gone" is a very entertaining collection.
Another interesting book is "the Incompleat Folksinger," by Pete Seeger, edited by Jo Metcalf Schwartz. It was reprinted by the University of Nebraska Press in 1992. this one is not just a songbook - it's a journey through Pete's world of folk music, with songs, tips on playing various instruments, and stories about Pete and the musicians he had as friends. Good book.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Jon W.
Date: 22 Dec 97 - 01:16 PM

Bullfrog, Try Woody Mann's "Six Early Blues Guitarists" for Blind Willie McTell (three songs) and some other great ones. (Note: early editions were titled "Six Black Blues Guitarists").

For Blind Lemon Jefferson, I've seen some transcriptions in a book by Stefan Grossman publised by Oak Publications. I can't think of the right title, but it's the one on Ragtime Blues. It also has some McTell tunes.

I think I bought both these books at a local music store which specializes in accoustic instruments. I would guess they are still in print and available. If you need more details on either, send me a personal message.

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Bullfrog
Date: 22 Dec 97 - 12:57 PM

I'd like to know where to find a tablature book on Blind Lemon Jefferson or Blind Willie McTell's amazing work I've been searchaing high and low

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Frank in the swamps
Date: 22 Dec 97 - 12:07 PM

English Folk Song From The Southern Appalachians. Collected by Cecil J. Sharp and Maud Karpeles. Oxford university press.

Ozark Folksongs (four volumes!!!). Collected & edited by Vance Randolph. University of Missouri press.

Songs of American Sailormen. By Joanna Colcord. W.W. Norton & Company. Copyright 1938, might be hard to find.

And for Irish songs...

Sam Henry's Songs Of the People. Edited by Gale Huntington, revised by Lani Herrmann. University of Georgia Press.

These are excellent collections, right up there with Sandburg & Lomax.

Frank I.T.S.

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Jon W.
Date: 22 Dec 97 - 11:05 AM

My wife came home from the library Saturday with a Prarie Home Companion book of folksongs - mostly lyrics, but with a fair percentage of music too. The ones without music at least name a tune. There's a whole lot of parodies, and most of the songs covered in the late great "Naughty Kid's greatest hits" thread are in it. My wife was busting a gut reading the words. Sorry I don't know the complete name but it's a fairly recent book and quite large.

For what it's worth, Jon W.

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Bert
Date: 22 Dec 97 - 10:44 AM

Keep your eyes open in used bookstores for books by Joe Glazer. I had a copy of his "Songs of Peace, Freedom and Protest" for years until it fell apart. Then I found another copy in The Booklegger in Huntsville, Alabama.**
He also wrote a book about the guitar and another of folksongs.

My copies of both of them were lent out long ago and have never returned.

Why do I keep lending books?

**A great store, just a little pricey on some books but others are bargains. They usually have one or two folksong books.

Bert.

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: rastrelnikov
Date: 22 Dec 97 - 02:03 AM

The Fireside Book of Folksongs and Great Songs of the 60s were the only songbooks I ever saw at home until I hit my twenties. The first, especially, rates a 10 for nostalgia value alone. If you know the Stan Rogers songs, then Songs from Fogerty's Cove, is a pretty good introduction to a few picking patterns and DADGAD tuning for the guitar. OLGA (www.olga.com) is a great source for song accompaniments if you already know the melody. I still think I haven't yet learned the melody to a single song from a songbook.

The only time I don't think Rise Up Singing is fantastic is when some beginner makes a request for a song from RUS and a normally fine musician proceeds to try and sight-read a very mediochre version of the song. Requests in song circles ought to be limited to songs SOMEBODY is very familiar with. Also, its simplified guitar chords often allow or even encourage simplifications in wonderful melodies. Song for song, RUS is terrible. Pound for pound, it's the most efficient songbook ever.

Joe: thanks for the pointer to Carl Sandburg's songboook. I'll have to keep an eye out for it. Why, oh why don't they reissue his albums?

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Dec 97 - 01:24 AM

By the way, I'm really impressed with the songbook reprints that Dover Publications has published. Besides the Lomax & Lomax "American Ballads and Folk Songs," I have "Songs and Ballads from Nova Scotia," "Folk Songs of New England," and a 1956 book by Richard Chase called "American Folk Tales and Songs." Then there's "Songs of Work and Protest," by Edith Fowke & Joe Glazer, and Irwin Silber's "Songs of the Civil War." These books are treasures that would otherwise have been lost. Dover must be making money since they have such a wide variety of reprints out, but their prices are very reasonable.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Dec 97 - 01:13 AM

Hi, Alice - interestingly, my Dover reprint copy of "American Ballads and Folk Songs" by John and Alan Lomax, has 625 pages, just about the same as your more recent book Mine has a 1934 copyright, and "Folk Song USA" was first published in 1947. Seems that all three are different, but all three have the same general format and the rich background information.
After our previous discussion of "Rise Up Singing," I had some correspondence with editor Peter Blood about the upcoming second volume of RUS. He's heard the issues we discussed, and he said the book wasn't intended to be used as a "hymnal." They expected it to be just a reference book. I think we concluded in our last discussion that it really isn't the RUS book that's bad - it's the way some people use it.
Our song circle uses RUS, but I like to think we don't usually go overboard with it. I admit that sometimes I get bugged when people are hesitant when I lead songs MY way, instead of what's in the book. Still and all, the book works pretty well for us - and there are a few of us in the group who constantly push to introduce new songs to keep things fresh.
That's part of the reason I like to hang out here - I've learned a lot of new material.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Dec 97 - 06:44 PM

Alice...that is one of the most resonable, sensible attitudes I have seen in ages...(translation: you agree with MY prejudices...*smile*)

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Alice
Date: 21 Dec 97 - 03:06 PM

Just another note. I really like to find old community, church, and school songbooks. The only one that I've seen that I don't care for is the Rise Up Singing book. There is something about it that really annoys me. I don't know quite how to put it into words. Well, on second thought, I do. It is the presumption that it is an accurate source (when it is not) and the cult-like way SOME of its followers cling to it like a holy scripture, and create an authoritarian ritualistic culture around it. (You have to sing it by the RUS book, attitude.) That kind of cult behavior can occur in any context. It would bug me if people were doing "strictly by the book" song circles with any source. I have written my own verses to songs so that I can sing them from a woman's point of view (like the "heave away" song, South Australia). Part of folk singing is the ability for us "just plain folks" to change songs to make them our own experience. Although I believe in searching to find older sources, I still make a song my own, if I need to change some words or notes to make it more singable for me. No offence intended, so don't start spamming this thread, all you RUS lovers! It may be the way many people these days are introduced to group folk singing, which, if they don't get stuck there, is a positive first step. A fun song circle would be one in which singers created their own parodies of RUS songs. We already had a big discussion about RUS in a thread awhile back, and I don't want to start that debate again!! ;-) Alice in MT

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Alice
Date: 21 Dec 97 - 01:22 PM

Joe and Bruce, the edition I have is a black hardbound ©60 copy that I believe is a first edition. It is 623 pages long. On the title page is written, "THE FOLK SONGS OF NORTH AMERICA in the English Language by Alan Lomax, Melodies and guitar chords transcribed by Peggy Seeger, with one hundred piano arrangements by Matyas Seiber and Don Banks". I know there is the same hardbound copy in our local library, and my son's primary school teacher has one that he uses in his classroom. It is a well know source among folkies in these parts. The book is dedicated "To my father, John A. Lomax, who broke the trail". I find it very rich in historical information, as well as commentary on the collection of the songs. Each song has detailed notes regarding its history and comments on the recording of the source. For example, notes on the song "Irene" begin with, "The Archive of American Folk Song", which now numbers some 60,000 songs in its files of field recordings, came into actual being one broiling summer day in the State Penitentiary in Angola, Louisiana. The first recording we took on our new portable equipment was of the state's prisoner, Lead Belly, singing "Irene Goodnight". We were powerfully impressed by his panther-like grace and his extraordinary good looks: his already snow-white hair set off the aquiline features and the proudly gazing eyes inherited from his African and Cherokee Indian ancestors. We were amazed by his mastery of his great, geen painted twelve string guitar, but we were deeply moved by the flawless tenor voice which rang out across the green cotton fields like a big sweet toned trumpet. We believe Lead Belly when he said, "I'ze the king of the twelve-string guitar players in the world." My father and I had come to the penitentiary hunting folk songs." There are 317 such commentaries as well as a detailed preface in the original edition of this book. I definitely find it a work of a major American folk song collector, not just an anthology of songs. If future editions fell short of the original, it is an injustice to Lomax and his father. For Irish songs, my favorites are Herbert Hughes (four volumes), who not only went around collecting from the common people of the country, but was an intelligent musician and arranger and also Colm O'Lochlainn, who's Irish Street Ballads have been reprinted a number of times. Alice in Montana

Subject: RE: Songbooks
From: Bruce O.
Date: 20 Dec 97 - 06:16 PM

I've seen a reprint of 'Folk Songs of North America' recently. This gives a variety of songs from many sources, not just from the Lomaxs' collecting. It's one of the best anthologies. Generally, I keep away from anthologies. I'm partial to books from collectors, as the songs are usually the way the singer sang them, not like the way an editor imagined they should be.

Subject: Songbooks
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Dec 97 - 04:33 PM

Alice, you mentioned "Folk Songs of North America," by Alan Lomax. I have a 1966 paperback edition of "Folk Song USA" and a recent Dover reprint of "American Ballads and Folk songs," both by John A. and Alan Lomax. There is some duplication between the two of them, but a lot that is not duplicated. Is "Folk Songs of North America" completely different, or maybe a combination of the tow, or what? Is is still in print?
I have a recent reprint of Carl Sandburg's "American Songbag," and I think that's one nobody should be without. Jerry Silverman's "Folk Song Encyclopedia" is still available through Hal Leonard, and there are a number of good Silverman songbooks available. Oh, and the "Folksinger's Wordbook" by Fred & Irwin Silber is still available.
Are there other songbooks in print (or widely available that people would like to recommend?
-Joe Offer-