BS: Great Misquotations

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Amos
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 05:56 PM

LOL, guys!! Tasnx fer a great discurtashun!!

A.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: kendall
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 07:02 PM

Know what I'm saying?

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 08:52 PM

And don'tcha love it when characters on prime-time TV shows, having just been told something in plain language by someone, like...

"I can't unlock the car because my keys are in my wallet, and I left it on the front seat under your copy of Cosmo..."

Now...just to show how smart, cool, hip, and in command he or she is, the character aforementioned fixes the poor someone in question with an exasperated look and says:

"Lemme get this straight..." (Duh)

"You left the keys in your wallet...you left your wallet on the front seat...under my coopy of Cosmo...and the car is locked!"

Yeah. Poor person nods glumly or smiles ruefully. Laugh track yacks idiotically.

Isn't this brilliant dialogue? Did all those screenwriters go to the same school or does Hollywood somehow destroy the human brain through some hideous form of osmosis?

It's another great reason not to watch TV.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: GUEST, Cookieless Member
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 08:59 PM

Hmmm....so you reckon the 'Cat is being trolled by SCREENWRITERS, LH? Makes sense...

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 09:02 PM

LOL! The horror! Lemme get this straight....

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: GUEST, Cookieless Member
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 09:09 PM

*G*

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Genie
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 11:46 PM

Wilfried, Thanks for the reminder about the adverb/adjective distinction. (My Latin classes were decades ago.)
However, "Adeste Fideles" was not written by "the old Romans." I believe it was composed in the 12th C. (or maybe later). I don't know if all publications of the song used "laeti," (instead of "laete") but the English version used to be "joyfully triumphant." If the Latin says "laeti triumphantes," wouldn't that translate as "joyful triumphant," not "joyful and triumphant?" I don't know if Latin speakers would say it that way, without the "et," but in English wouldn't you say "joyfully triumphant" rather than "joyful triumphant?"
At any rate, I would consider the lyric drift more an example of the folk process than a misquote.

My favorite example of lyric drift is the saying/song "Let us smile 'be[neath] your umbrella," which evolved into "Let a smile be your umbrella." In part, it was probably originally a mondegreen, but by now, no one [in the US, anyway] uses "be'" as a contraction for "beneath," so the original line would probably not be understood by most folks. Still, the two lines have quite different meanings.

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 08:25 AM

Genie,

surely Adeste fideles was not composed in old Roman times, but the times from Caesar an Cicero to Tacitus are quoted as the Golden ones, and language use of the Golden Aera is accepted as the Standard. Middle Latin as spoken in Medieval times has deteriorated, and better authors tried to write in the classical usage.
Here the adjective laeti must be used, because the fideles are full of joy and are triumphant. The conjunction et is, especially in poetry, often omitted.
In English you must insert "and" because of the metre. In German it is no problem, because we have 1 syllable more: "fröhlich triumphierend", so we dont need an "und".

Jim,

It is one of the mysteries of German usage. "Ich bin Berliner" = I'm living in Berlin, I'm born in Berlin" etc. But JFK's quote "Ich bin ein Berliner" has a slightly different meaning, considering the words spoken before: I'm one of all you freedom loving people of Berlin. With this German sentence he ended his speech using a climax, and the word "ein" gives it more stress. So his language use was considered appropriate by all German listeners. You could see tears flowing at some places.

Wilfried

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 08:52 AM

Just realized nobody has mentioned the most famous misquotation of all time

When Neil Armstrong landed on the moon he is supposed to have said "A small step for man, a giant step for mankind". What he actually said of course, was "A small step for a man, a giant step for mankind". The missing "a" got lost in the transmission. Pity really, because the quotation as popularly remembered is a total oxymoron.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 01:21 PM

Hi Murray, did you ever read Arthur C. Clarke's Imperial Earth? set I belive in 2276 -- the protagonist, Duncan Makenzie, listens to a tape of Armstrong and muses "as always, he listened for the missing "a" before man and did not hear it. A whole book had been written about that slip, starting with Armstrong's slightly exasperated 'that's what I meant to say, and that's what I thought I said.'" don't have that book with me, but that's what I remember.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 01:41 PM

Murray, to be perfectly pedantic about it, your quote is incorrect also.

After the crew had returned to Houston, press representatives repeatedly asked what Armstrong had actually said. The Apollo news center at MSC issued the following release (copy in box 078-56, JSC History Office Files) on July 30, 1989: 'Armstrong said that his words when he first stepped on the moon were: "That's one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind" not "That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind" as originally transcribed.' "

Armstrong has always maintained the "a" was garbled and lost, but those who have listened and analyzed the tape repeatedly tend to believe he just forgot it. Geeziz, who wouldn't? I think Pete Conrad yelling "whooppee" was more the reaction most of us may have had. I can see where the missing "a" does make a difference, but it's pretty marginal to me. I think virtually everyone listeneing got the point that Neil took a small step off the LM but it represented a great advance in the history of civilization.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Ferrara
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 04:01 PM

Kendall's post about "genealogy" reminded me of my favorite malapropism.

I was hired by IBM in 1966. They sent me to various departments for interviews. I thought I would go nuts or die smothered in ticky-tacky. Every single manager told me he wore "two hats" or "three hats," meaning his department had several functions. Every single manager then drew his department's org chart on his blackboard.

The guy who made my day wanted to show me the reasons why his department had its current structure. As he started to draw his org chart he said, "Let me tell you some of the GYNECOLOGY of my department.... ... Uh, uh, if that's the word I mean...."

I didn't crack a smile then, but I howled about it once I got home. I was living with my parents and I think my mom told that story to every one of her friends she was so tickled.

Shoot, I was waiting avidly to hear about the gynecology of his department, but all he did was draw another damned org chart.

Rita F

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Peg
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 07:50 PM

My students misuse words all the time. Damn kids don't read anymore so when they write an essay or script they do their best to get something right that they've only heard in speech and usually don't understand the full context of how it should be used...like they will say "cut and dry" when they mean "cut and dried." Or "suppose to" when they mean "supposed to." Don't get me started on their mis use of to, too and two, or there, their and they're or who's and whose, or your and you're...My favorite recently was the spelling "quincidentally" for "coincidentally."

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 08:29 PM

Not only kids, Peg. Count how many times you see "loose" used on the Forum here when the writer means "lose".

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Genie
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 11:41 PM

I used to collect student bloopers from blue book exam answers and put them into composite paragraphs. A few that I recall at the moment (from pyshcology courses I taught) are:
"...boys are rough, while girls are gentile..."
"... our trip to Carl's Bad Cavern..."
"the Oedipus complex is a complex acquired from Sigmund Freud in early childhood..."
"[for my research project] I want to study how men treat women in pubic places"
"...the male hormone, testrogen..."
and then there were many students who wrote "reflexive' when [from context] it was pretty clear that they meant "reflective"


Murray MacLeod, Upon reflection, I realize that the "fat lady" quotation is considerably older than 1978, so the Dan Cook quotation would not have been the first use of it.
BTW, isn't there any authoritative website for quotations, like Bartlett.com?

Murray, Documentaries I've seen about the moon landing say that Neil Armstrong, in effect, was so excited he 'blew his lines." He was supposed to say "One small step for a man, one giant step for mankind". What he actually said was "One small step for man, one giant step for mankind".

Wilfried, Latin notwithstanding, I believe the transition in English from "joyfully triumphant" to "joyful and triumphant" is an example of either misheard lyrics or simple folk process, not someone 'correcting' the translation from the Latin.

One other misattribution is the idea that W. C. Fields said "Anyone who hates children and dogs can't be all bad." Wasn't this said about him by someone else?

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 10:58 PM

Without my copy of Taylor's "WC Fields, His Follies and Fortunes" here with me, I am unable to state with certainty, but IIRC it was his friend Gene Fowler who introduced him at a dinner with the words "Any man. . . "

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 11:13 PM

Genie, on reflection, I agree that the "fat lady sings" quotation is way older than 1978, and anyway, would a sports commentator have conjured this phrase out of thin air? I think not.

My initial thought was that it was Sam Goldwyn, (apparently not) but I still believe that it was somebody in the movie business who was trying to explain opera.

Somebody will come up with the answer I am sure. Victor Borge sounded promising but apparently it wasn't him either.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Ringer
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 02:16 PM

They shall not grow old as we that are left grow old.
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.

When Laurence Binyon actually wrote "They shall grow not old..."

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 03:27 PM

Oh dear..Bald Eagle, you are correct regarding that transposition, but you fall into the even more common trap of misquoting
"Nor the years contemn"
which is what Binyon actually wrote.

Contemn, (archaic possibly,) = to hold in contempt.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Mr Red
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 08:07 PM

spaw
Geeeze Spaw I hate to outspaw you but as I read it, in a book written by Harlan Ellison, Science Fiction writer and pedant, but I believed him on this, was that "...one small step..." were not, as is so often misquoted, the first words spoken on the moon
Yon astronaut stood on the bottom step of the ladder and uttered almost as per script THEN stepped down onto the moon dust and said somewhat to the effect "It is some kind of dust and I can move it around with my foot". The video was tx'ed to & from California for on-line processing (even in those days) and the sound went direct so the lip sync would have been a bit off by several seconds at least.
If steps & ladders don't count then "Houston, the Eagle Has Landed" must qualify.
As a footnote - I guess being a PEDant in this context is thouroughly appropriate.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 09:13 PM

And the Selenites said..."There goes the neighborhood."

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: CamiSu
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 11:59 PM

A storyteller on another list wrote (more than once) that something illicited emotions in her, rather than elicited. I did not bother to correct her. I don't think she would have cared.

And for the record:

My country, right or wrong, which became the right-wing cry against those of us who agreed with the whole quote; My country, right or wrong. if it's right, keep it right; if it's wrong, make it right. Does any know the source?

CamiSu

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: GUEST,Souter
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 01:39 AM

Everyone gets this one wrong:
Water, water everywhere, and all the boards did shrink
Water, water everywhere, NOR ANY drop to drink.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Genie
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 04:03 AM

CamiSu
From one whose memory has been subjected to the whims of time* and who has now had 3 or 4 glasses of vino, it seems that the "my country right or wrong" quotation was either from Decatur or ...no, I think it was from Decatur (whose first name I keep thinking was "Stephen," but of which I am sure I am wrong, if that makes any sense). Thanks for the clafification of the quote, BTW.

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 07:47 AM

CamiSu, sorry, your "My Country" quote is way off :-)

Stephem Decatur, one of the most celebrated Americans of his time, spoke these words as a toast, and what he actually said was;
"Our country! In her intercourse with foreign nations may she always be in the right; but our country, right or wrong."

Since the words were spoken as a toast, it is inconceivable that Decatur would have said "My Country" rather than "Our Country".

Over the years this quotation has morphed into "My Country, right or wrong" and the process was probably accelerated by a play called "My country, right or wrong", based on the life of Stephen Decatur, which ran for twenty years or so, until quite recently.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 07:52 AM

Damn cookie, every time I switch off these days it goes AWOL ...

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Ringer
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 10:05 AM

Condemn/contemn: Are you sure, Murray? Click Here for example.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 10:28 AM

Bald Eagle, I am positive.

I knew this to be a oft-misquoted line when I was in school, and that wasn't yesterday. You will find it misquoted universally, but I was assured by my English teacher that Binyon originally wrote "contemn", and as I recall, she had some sort of connection to Binyon (knew somebody who knew somebody ....)

I believe the confusion started when the poem was first published in an English newspaper, (the London Times) and the misquotation just took off from there.Today it can be found misquoted on countless memorials world wide.

Actually, if you stop and consider the line, "condemn" just doesn't make a great deal of sense, compared to "contemn", does it ?

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Wolfgang
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 10:43 AM

contemn/condemn

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Ringer
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 10:49 AM

Thanks, Wolfgang. Looks like an open question, then. Curiously, your link states it's not an issue except in ANZAC. Not yet, I think he means.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 11:05 AM

A slightly more scholarly link is to be found Here.
I agree that there appears to be no hard published evidence that Binyon wrote "contemn", but I am sticking to my guns. Just like the fallen.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 07:31 PM

what about the proof is in the pudding (the proof is not in the pudding) the real quote is the proof in the pudding is in the eating.

or (not a misquote but just bad English) AOL's YOUve Got Mail.

I keep waiting for the Toronto Maple Leafs to actually correct their name and become the Toronto Maple Leaves. petr

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Margo
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 10:57 PM

"Thou shalt not kill" is improperly translated. The real commandment is "Thou shalt not commit murder". I think God knows self defense is no sin...

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: CamiSu
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 11:36 PM

Murray, thanks for the correction. Could someone else have said my quote? (I must admit I prefer its sentiment. It signifies a willingness to change when we are wrong.)

CamiSu

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: heric
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 01:25 PM

On, Neil Armstrong: Here's an item for you preserved for thirty three years since stored in the memory banks of an eleven year old , and I will be amazed (and pleased) if you can find proof of it to back me up:

A television journalist, pre-launch, asked Neil Armstrong what would be his first utterance from the moon. He responded (and yes I quote exactly, from memory): "I don't know. Whatever it is, it will be spontaneous."

So I really like Mr. Red's post just above, for giving me, after all these decades, some leeway to believe that he wasn't lying. (As soon as that "small step" line came over the airwaves, I knew (a) he had lied to this little boy, and (b) he had blown his lines. So, in that sense, maybe he didn't know in advance what his words would be, but it hardly qualifies as "spontaneous.")

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Big John
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 02:02 PM

MOM: I took the kids to see the exorcist. DAD: They're a bit young for that movie. MOM : Who said anything about the movies?

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: kendall
Date: 19 Sep 02 - 06:44 AM

Now, after all that, a question ( two, actually) why do we care, and, what the hell makes the difference?

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Sep 02 - 07:13 AM

Kendall: "We scare because we care"! (Monsters Inc.)

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 19 Sep 02 - 09:18 PM

This isn't a misquote but recently while driving along the superslab known as I-80, through Nebraska, I pondered about the expression "cowpoke" typically used interchangeably with "cowboy". I wondered what was the difference and what their origins were. Then, in a blinding flash, I remembered the Movie "Lonesome Dove" and the conversation Augustus McCray had with the charming Lorena Woods about having a "poke" which was slang during those days, for the 'carnal act'. Now I wonders if calling a cowboy a cowpoke might not be some sort of reference to bestiality? (My cousin studied animal husbandry at the University of Wisconsin until they caught him at it!) Perhaps it was originally an insult?

CB

Subject: RE: BS: Great Misquotations
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Sep 02 - 04:37 AM

"Poke": also a sealed sack, the contents of which cannot be seen. Hence to buy something without first viewing it is to "buy a pig in a poke"

Nigel