Getting nursing home gigs

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Genie
Date: 10 Aug 02 - 01:56 PM

Marion, the "flood of referrals" from your first gig is not surprising. (These places are, as the A. D.s often say, "always looking for new entertainers." and most will try you without an audition--especially if you're recommended by a prior client.)

But referrals are like seedlings. If you don't tend and cultivate them, they tend to dry up. By all means, keep the clients and prospective clients posted as to your interest and availability.

And if you go the agent route, tell us how that works out. I'm interested in hearing about your adventures in this kind of venue anyway.

Genie

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Ferrara
Date: 10 Aug 02 - 12:08 PM

First, Marion, Thank you for your link to the Heart and Soul Music thread.

(If anyone missed it, see Heart and Sould Music ... which I hope will end up as a blue clicky....)

The biggest factor I'm aware of right now in planning to do nursing and retirement home gigs is ... Sheer Terror. An old feeling of "Why would anyone want to have me come and make music for them?"

I think that deep down, I felt that if I sent a flyer to retirement/nursing homes offering to do music for pay, it would be seen as, "Doesn't she have a lot of chutzpah!"

Anyway, reading the Heart and Soul Music web site, I'm feeling less insecure. It is reinforcing the idea Genie and Mike have stressed, that you are doing a valuable service and should be paid for it.

After my first not-for-profit gig, there was a kind of snowball effect where I was called by people who had seen me, or read about me in the retirement community's newsletter, and asked me to sing for other organizations.

When the flood of referrals eventually dried up, I never pursued it. I always felt embarrassed and not worthy of all the praise my music was getting....

(At that time I was taking a lot more medications including prednisone for my heart transplant, and they do funny things to your emotions.... Besides I've been asked to a bit of performing at festivals since then and have developed a lot more confidence -- I think. :-)

BTW, Mike and Genie, my gigs two or three years ago were not for nursing homes but they did seem to contradict the "never sing for free" rule.

Most of the people I played for realized I should be paid for my time. If they didn't have an entertainment budget they said so up front. A few gave me the choice of being paid or not, understanding that if I didn't, the money would be available for the group's charity work. Others, who were not service organizations, just paid me. They were aware that I had been playing for free, and were aware of the kinds of not-for-profit organizations I played for, but they didn't assume I would -- or should -- play free for other groups.

Still, these were service organizations, not retirement, assisted-living, or nursing homes.

At one of my first gigs I was asked whether I was booked through a theatrical agency, so I know some organizations in this area do set up programs that way. Worth looking into.

Rita F

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Marion
Date: 09 Aug 02 - 03:22 PM

Thanks for the further suggestions for finding facilities to call.

Marion

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: musicmick
Date: 09 Aug 02 - 03:49 AM

Of course, a professional agent will not work for what he/she could make from commisions from your nursing home jobs. There are two alternative solutions you might try. You could find a theatrical agency that would be willing to place your name on their list of artists that they call for jobs. These agents would not be your representatives, per se, but they would be a source of jobs and, incidently, a buffer between you and the client. As I have mentioned, I work with half a dozen different agents who call me with varying frequency. Two agencies deal with the senior market, which includes nursing homes, retirement communities and religious orginizations. If Seattle doesn't have agents who operate in well defined areas (and I'll bet they are there), you will have to deal with general theatrical agencies (You will find them listed in the Yellow Pages and see their advertizements in local publications classified under "Entertainment".) OR you can find someone among your aquaintence who might like to get into the entertainment field but lacks the talent or the nerve to perform. The world is filled with people who see performing as glamourous and exciting. Come to think of it, I am one of those people. Making a responsible friend your spokesperson is a good idea. You will appear more professional to the clients if you are represented.

Mike

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Genie
Date: 09 Aug 02 - 01:00 AM

Mike, yes, thank goodness, that story describes a very rare kind of event. But I do run into various flaky, mean-spirited, neurotic, and otherwise strange people -- just as in any business. In particular, the assertive/persistent posture you sometimes have to take to get through "Cerberus" at the front desk can be a turnoff to the guard dog herself/himself, and if the guard dog has power (formal or otherwise) s/he can make it difficult for you to get booked or rebooked. This is why an agent would be such an asset. Not only is a good agent good at this, but if the agent alienates a prospective client, the bad feelings are dierected at the agent--not necessarily at the performer. The question is, though, will a good agent work for what you can afford to pay them?

Genie

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Genie
Date: 09 Aug 02 - 12:49 AM

Go to http://www.newlifestyles.com/click here. This organization provides free directories of senior homes, centers, and services for a large number of geographic areas. (I imagine the advertisers --i.e., the listed homes and services-- foot the bill for the directories.

You will also find various free newspapers such as "Senior Life" in the lobbies of various retirement and nursing homes. Nearly all have ads for various facilities, and some even have directories in them.

Also, call call a couple of the larger facilities in your area and ask the administrator, the marketing director, or the activity director for information on where to find directories and other publications of this sort.

Genie

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: M.Ted
Date: 08 Aug 02 - 11:10 PM

There is a big directory of all the facilities in the country(probably Canada as well), key staff, and info on the corporate systems, etc--a friend who is a medical administrator xeroxed the pages for my area for me--unfortunately, she didn't copy the title page, so I don't know what it's called--it is out there though--there is a lot of turn over in the industry, so try to find a very recent edition--

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Ferrara
Date: 08 Aug 02 - 10:51 PM

Oh, also, last week I saw free copies of a small newspaper called "Seniors Bulletin," I think, that was being passed out at our corner drugstore. It's normally a subscription newspaper, they were trying to drum up business by giving it away. Naturally it contained a number of ads for nursing homes, assisted living facilities, and retirement communities.

Your locality may have this kind of weekly paper. Specialty drugstores, the kind that carry medical equipment, etc, or are affiliated with a medical center, may also have this kind of seniors' bulletin.

Rita F

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Ferrara
Date: 08 Aug 02 - 10:47 PM

Marion,

Here is one more suggestion for finding the type of venues Genie mentioned. I don't know whether your local paper has a Health page. The Washington Post has a health section every Wednesday and there are always ads for retirement homes, etc. Every three months they have a Seniors' edition with many, many ads.

For me this was helpful because I could get a "feel" for each facility from their ad and also some of them specifically mention organized activities or stated that they have an activities director.

Rita F

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: musicmick
Date: 08 Aug 02 - 10:38 PM

Wow, Genie, that is a horror story. I trust it is the exeption rather than the rule. I've had a few unhappy recreators, in my day. There are more horse's asses than there are horses. I think that the best protection an artist can have is an agent. As I mentioned before, any artist is better off paying an agent than dealing directly with facilities. Your tale of woe would have been more tolerable if someone else was dealing with that wifty Activity Director. In fact, even if you cant find an agent to book you, you might get a friend to do your talking for you. I have a manager who deals with all the agents and clients and I never have to put up with nuts like your Wicked Witch of the West. Even before I had a manager, I had my wife talk to clients, not to solicit jobs, just to represent me. A spokesperson tends to get more respect, I dont know why.

Mike

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Genie
Date: 08 Aug 02 - 02:36 PM

Well, at least try to avoid proprietors who are nut cases. ;- )

RE phone books: try "nursing homes," "convalescent homes," "retirement communities," "adult day care," "senior centers," and "assisted living" facilities.

Also contact whatever agency regulates nursing and adult foster home in your county. There may be a state agency, a county agency, and a city agency involved. They will have lists of facilities. Approach it as though you were looking for a home fo an aging parent, to get the widest array of facilities.

Do ADs talk to each other? If the facilities are owned by the same parent company, they often do. And some ADs know each other. They do sometimes ask each other for suggestions as to whom to hire (even occasionally calling another facility where they don't know the AD). In San Diego, there are a couple of associations of activity directors.
As in any business, remember that bad news travels faster than good. Unfortunately, when people like you or your product or service, they tend to tell YOU; when they hate it, they tend to tell EVERYONE else. (I'm talking about going out of their way to tell people about you. I think they will always tell someone what they think of you, good or bad, when they are ASKED.) This is why I advise getting letters of reference from folks.

I haven't joined the union. (I brought up some of my concerns in one of the other threads.) Still considering giving it a try.

Some place use contracts (at least confirmation forms), and I sometimes use them. Unfortunately, they're not of much help beyond being a reminder. If would cost you more in time and money to try to collect on them legally than your fee would have been, in most cases. I would strongly suggest signed booking confirmation forms for special occasions like St. Patrick's and New Year's Eve, though.

Most places either pay me at the gig or have me sign an invoice of their own and then send me a check. Quite a few others with which I have an ongoing relationship just send me my check (usually afterwards, occasionally beforehand) without my being involved in the paperwork. There can be as many as 5% of facilities that sometimes get real flaky about sending payment, and I've been stiffed a few times when a facility has gone out of business or gone into Chapter 11 while still owing me money. Try to get paid at the gig if you can.

Genie

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: GUEST,Marion
Date: 08 Aug 02 - 11:17 AM

That was an interesting story, thanks. I'll be sure to avoid people called Stephanie, just in case.

Some more wonderings:

Are there ways other than the yellow pages to get names of facilities to call? I looked in the yellow pages and there were surprisingly few nursing homes listed - at least half a dozen nursing homes that I happen to know of weren't in there.

Do you think ADs from different facilities talk to each other?

Do you think it's easier to get work as one-person show or as a band?

I think you've mentioned, Genie, that you're not in the union. Do you have a contract that you ask the facilities to sign? Do you leave them an invoice to mail you your pay, or expect it on the spot?

Thanks, Marion

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Genie
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 02:48 AM

OK, folks, for those of you just dying to hear my lengthy tale of being asked to refund payment for a gig, here goes:

The proprietor of a small adult foster home, based upon having heard me play and sing for folks at another group home where she had worked, called me to book a regular monthly sing-along/music therapy session for her residents.  She was, by her own and others' accounts, a zealous devotee of a fundamentalist Christian sect and preferred to emphasize religious music for her residents.

When I arrived for my first program, there were 4 or 5 residents present (I forget which).
-One relatively young man, who may have had some mental disorder but no dementia, asked me to play "The Blue Danube Waltz."  (I am not really an instrumental guitarist.)  When I did not know how to play it, he became very disgusted and went back to his room.
-One woman who was ca. 100 years old and in one of those reclining "geri-chairs" stayed asleep during the whole program.
-One woman who was probably late eighties or early nineties sang along with me on quite a few songs.
-Another woman of about the same age did not do much singing but seemed to pay attention to most of the songs.
-If there was another woman there, she was mostly like the last one I mentioned.

I tried out various kinds of music, including the oldie sing-alongs like "My Bonnie," "Take Me Out To The Ball Game," "Let Me Call You Sweetheart," and "You Are My Sunshine," to modest success.  Then I switched to hymns, and the proprietor seemed to really light up.  Together we sang "It Is No Secret," "The Old Rugged Cross," "Just A Closer Walk With Thee," "Jesus Loves Me/He's Got The Whole World In His Hands," "In The Garden," "What A Friend," etc., and Stephanie (the proprietor) seemed delighted with the songs and with the response of the group.  We sang harmonies, got folks involved with the music, etc.  She proceeded to write me a check for the amount we had agreed on.

A month later, I drove back early from Seattle--having turned down one or two other engagements to do so -- for my previously scheduled second visit to the foster home.  When I arrived, one of Stephanie's workers, who was in charge that day, told me I was not on their schedule.

When I spoke with Stephanie the next day, she went into a tirade about how worthless my music was -- in particular, how my selection of songs to sing was not worthy of being anything but a free program.  I then reminded her of my "satisfaction guarantee" policy and asked why she had not said anything at the time of the first program.  She then pounced on the "money back" idea and began to demand a refund of the money she had paid me after that first performance.  But she would not tell me -- since she was denouncing my selection of material -- what kind of music it was she had been or was looking for!  She refused to give me any sort of specific feedback as to what was unsatisfactory about my music.  (Remember, she had heard me a few times before.)

I ended up writing her a letter stating that, while I would not have charged her for the program had she told me at the time that it was unsatisfactory, by failing to tell me that she was cancelling our "monthly bookings," she had cost me more than the amount she had paid me, so I would just consider it even.

Then she began to sort of "stalk" me in a weird way.  She wrote me several nasty letters, and she told me that she had "called around and learned that I had a reputation" for being lousy at this.  I made quite a few inquiries of my own and was unable to find any activity director who had even been contacted by her, much less anyone who said they were dissatisfied with my work.  Stephanie even told me that the proptietor of the group home where she had first heard me had told me she didn't like me and didn't want to keep hiring me.  Not only did that woman completely dismiss this as utter nonsense, but she continued to hire me many times a year for several more years.

It's possible that Stephanie just wanted to enhance her budget.  (Hence, the "opportunistic" epithet.)  Or she may have been a nut case.

One even more bizarre thing that may (or may not) tie into this is that something happened a year or so later that made me wonder if someone was calling around claiming to be me and saying who-knows-what?   There was a very upscale retirement community where I had played once when I first started doing this sort of job.  They hired musicians only 6 times a year and  had a long list of performers, so I didn't call them back for about 5 years.  Then, when I did call back, I was told, "You keep calling here, and we've told you that the residents said never to hire you again, and we've told you to stop calling, but you keep calling!"  Nothing I could say could persuade them that I had
¥ never been told I would not be rehired,
¥ never been told not to call back,  and
¥ not, in fact, called them in 18 months to 2 years.

In all probability, the confusion is just from having multiple staffers handling phone calls and performers with similar names (like the old children's game of "Gossip" or "Telephone").  But given Stephanie's other bizarre behaviors, I sometimes wonder...

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Genie
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 02:01 AM

Here is some very good "do-as-I-say, not-as-I-do" advice, Marion. (I do some of this. I need to get better at the rest.)

¥ Learn as many residents' names as possible, as quickly as possible.

¥ If there is a resident who is especially exuberant about your music, send her or him a card after your gig to say how much you enjoyed meeting her or him and how much you would love to be invited back. Include a photo flyer or card, if possible, or mention the "favorite song" of hers/his that you so enjoy singing. The resident will enjoy getting the card, and your bond with that resident will be strengthened (as well as their memory of you stimulated).

¥ Tell them your name often -- at the beginning and end of each program, for sure, and sometimes in between (e.g., when introducing yourself to individual residents).

¥ Have some flyers or business cards with your photo on them to give to individual residents or their families. They will often ask for them.

¥ When you contact the AD about re-booking, mention by name the resident(s) who told you how much they loved your program and really wanted you to return. (E.g., "I really enjoy doing music with your residents. Jack Murphy seemed so thrilled to hear "Where The River Shannon Flows" and came up to me afterwards to tell me he hoped I would come back again. And I promised John Ames that I would learn "The Sierra Petes" so I could sing it for him next time.")

¥ At the end of your program, if (when) the residents are coming up to you and saying, "I do hope you'll come to sing for us again," --especially if the AD is present --, tell them, quite candidly: "I would love to come back. It's up to you folks, though. If you tell [AD's name] that you want be back, I'm sure s/he'll invite me back. S/he tries to give you the programs you vote for."

------------

Yeah, Marion, re price, I generally quote them a price RANGE and say it's negotiable within that range. Usually, unless I have reason to believe it's a really low-budget facility, when I'm negotiating I start with my "standard" (i.e., next to highest) price and say "Is that what you're accustomed to paying?" If they say they generally have a lower ceiling, then I negotiate downward.

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Marion
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 12:09 AM

So with fees, you don't usually quote them a price, they quote you a price and you decide whether or not to take it?

And Genie, you mention that the AD might ask the residents, or residents' council, who they would like to have back. Do you make an effort to impress your name upon the audience, and if so, how?

Marion

PS There's only one thing more interesting than a bizarre situation, and that's a bizarre situation involving incredible audacity.

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Genie
Date: 02 Aug 02 - 03:09 PM

One more thread, re the paid vs. volunteer issue: click here

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Genie
Date: 02 Aug 02 - 02:57 PM

Just connecting some related threads.

click here

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: M.Ted
Date: 02 Aug 02 - 01:42 PM

You've pretty much painted yourself into a corner, Genie--you have to tell us--if you don't, I'll start a thread called "Ever been sked to give the money back?"--

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Genie
Date: 02 Aug 02 - 02:40 AM

Marion, I really never know what a facility's overall budget is, but if it's a nursing home with mainly Medicare patients, it's probably not well funded, especially if it is a non -profit. If it's a residence owned by Holiday Retirement Corporation, SunRise Assisted Living Communities, or Marriott, on the other hand, the residents pay a lot to live there, and the facility can bloody well afford to pay a reasonable price for entertainment.

Most ADs are pretty straight with you about what they generally pay their entertainers. If they say all their budget can handle is, say, $30 for a 45-minute program, that is probably true. Note: The activity director can usually do little to increase his/her budget. The administrators probably could allocate the funds differently, but good luck trying to get them to do so. Even if the AD has made what I'd consider a bad choice-- such as spending the entire budget on Bingo prizes and having to use only volunteer musicians--it's hard to change his/her mind.

If I know they're paying, say, half of what many clients pay, I decide whether I'm willing to do a program for that price, and it depends primarily on how much it costs me in time and money to do it, plus whether the time conflicts with something I'd rather be doing (such as taking a higher-paying gig).

One place I do music in San Diego is a senior center near my parents' home (travel time about 20 minutes round trip). They can only pay $25 and give me lunch. (Senior centers usually are on a shoestring budget.) But I play for only 30 minutes; I play at noon, so it seldom conflicts with other work; I can play pretty much anything I want and they'll love it;they're a very sharp audience and are a delight to perform for; and getting the booking takes me about 5 minutes. I don't mind at all doing this gig for this price.

As for references, I'm actually seldom asked for them. Sometimes I just tell a prospective client the names of the facilities and ADs to call, and sometimes I fax them a list.

I want to start getting formal letters from ADs, though, if I can--if only to tell the new AD or the administrator of THAT facility that my prior programs have been well received! As I said, staff turnover is frequent, so it's often hard for someone to contact the AD who hired you last year and thought you were so wonderful. But ADs are also notoriously overworked, so getting them to find time to write a letter might be hard.

Genie

PS, The "bizarre situation" I referred to is not really a boring story--more a case of incredible audacity on the part of the AD!. But I've been too long-winded in these threads already, so I'll spare you this tale.

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Marion
Date: 02 Aug 02 - 12:35 AM

Genie, can you explain a little bit about how your sliding scale works? How you you know which facilities are low-budget?

Also, you say that you provide references - do you mean that you provide names and phone numbers for them to call? Or do you get your references to write something down for you that you include with your brochure?

Thanks, Marion

PS Bizarre situations aren't boring, they're interesting...

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Genie
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 03:06 AM

Actually, Marion, I seldom suggest to someone that they hire me less often than they suggest.  You never know how long a recurring gig will last (due to budget cuts, changes in staff, etc.), so take the jobs while they're being offered.  Besides, some places keep hiring the same performer twice a week for 30 years.  You just can't predict how the residents will respond to this kind of predictabiltiy/familiarity -- or how the AD will interpret the feedback s/he gets.
 
 
 

Re the tape "substitution," if they won't accept it I just stand my ground.  If they don't hire me, so be it. I haven't done that many auditions for nursing homes or retirement homes, but I have not found it worth while.

A couple of illustrations will show why.

-----------------
One facility kept asking for an audition and presented themselves as seeking someone to be a regular, monthly performer.  I agreed to the audition with the provisos -- which they accepted -- that
(1)  the activity director would be present for the full hour of my audition program, and
(2)  she would ask the residents immediately afterward -- at least within 24 hours -- whether they wanted me to return.
The day of the audition, I called to "check in," and was told the AD no longer worked there.  I was going to beg off, but the administrator assured me that she would observe the program in lieu of the AD and would poll the residents, as we had agreed.
I did the program, and the residents seemed to love it.  Lots of them came up afterwards to tell me how great it was and how much they wanted me to return.
But the administrator had gotten tied up and was not present for any of it.  (She could hear it somewhat from her office but could not observe the residents' response.)
Soon thereafter, the administrator herself left her position.  When I contacted the new AD, a few weeks later, she wanted -- you guessed it! -- an audition!
I explained to her what happened with the last "audition" (i.e., free program) I did for them, and all she could say was, "Well, that's our policy.  We won't hire anyone without an audition."

-----------------
In another situation, for an upscale retirement residence in Del Mar, CA, the administrator served as AD and required an audition.  When I showed up for the audition, there was virtually no audience.  A couple of folks came and sat in the lobby to listen, but most were out on a field trip.  Then two women (probably in their 70s) came in, with arms folded and expressions on their faces that seemed to say "We know you're going to suck.  Just try to change our minds."  I had no idea what their tastes were (and they wouldn't tell me), but it was Christmas season, and I had said I was going to do an international Christmas/winter/Hanukkah program, so that's what I started to do.  A few other residents were sitting around the periphery of the lobby, and some of them told me afterwards that they liked the program, but I started getting a bunch of diverse requests ("Do some Irish music."  "Sing "Danny Boy."  -- I don't even remember what they asked for, but it was all over the place), which I did my best to accommodate.  The two scowling women sat there, with arms still folded, for about 2 songs, then got up and walked out.
After the "audition," the administrator said she would talk to the residents, as was their custom, at next resident council, and see about booking me.  I expressed my doubts, given the body language of the two front-and-center residents.  She said, not to worry, that the music was great.
Sure enough, when she called me back she was most apologetic, saying that she thought I was wonderful, but that "those two grouchy ladies" had, in effect, blackballed me.  (Yeah, she could have been just "being nice," but I really think she was sincere.)
Had I been told (a) that I would be auditioning for such a small, unrepresentative group, and (b) that the decision to hire was not the administrators's but was a matter of NOT displeasing a couple of residents, I would never have done the audition.  After all, you can please 90% or more of the audience and still have a couple of people not "dig your act."

------------------

I've actually had a new AD take over in a facility where I've played several times a year over the past few years and actually ask me for an audition, because she hadn't heard me herself!

-----------------

I think auditions are reasonable for jobs that pay pretty well, but most nursing homes don't.  They also make sense if they're done for people who choose--and will continue, for a long time, to choose -- the acts that are hired.  But  staff turnover in nursing homes makes this unlikely.
In my own experience, I have not found it worth while.

I offer a satisfaction guarantee instead.  If they don't think I'm worth my price, they don't have to pay me.  (In well over 8,000 programs I've done, I've had only one person ask for her money back [and that was a bizarre situation that I won't bore you with].)   I also provide references.  If this is not enough assurance that my programs are worth at least what I charge for them, I just forget about trying to book that facility.

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Marion
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 02:13 AM

Hi Genie. You said, "Some ADs have the habit of hiring a person very frequently when they are "new" and then dumping them for someone else when, predictably, the residents start asking for something different for a change."

If you feel that an AD is booking you too much in a short period, do you suggest spreading the gigs out more?

Also, you said, "Some will ask for an audition. In those cases, I've learned to give them a tape instead."

Do you find people generally willing to accept the substitution?

Marion

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Genie
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 09:31 PM

Marion, here's a tip about getting re-hired by the same facility after you've performed there.  By all means, contact the activity director for feedback and to try to re-book ASAP after you perform.  There are several reasons for this:

 - There's high turnover in activity directory positions.  Wait 2 or 3 months and the one that hired you may very well be gone, and your "track record" with her/him.

 - Many ADs book far in advance.  You need to be aware of which ones do this, of course.  But some will tell you they book month to month, and then they'll one day get ambitious and book the rest of the year in June.  If you didn't happen to call them while they were doing that booking, you may well be left out.  (Yes, some of them do kind of take a first-call-first-booked approach.)

 - Many of your clients -- the audience members,that is -- have short-term memory deficits.  If performer X has sung for them 18 over the past 3 years and you come to sing for them once, and they adore you, the residents may very well ask the AD to invite you back--if they are asked right away.  What do you expect happens when, 3 to 6 months after you were there, the AD asks them "Who would you like to have sing for you?
 
 

One other tip about being invited or being invited back:  Some facilities  let resident councils choose the entertainment.
    If possible, determine who is likely to be on the resident council, and pay special attention to their tastes and preferences in your program.
    Some convalescent homes, e.g., will have a lot of low-functioning residents present in a sing-along or concert, as well as a few who are quite alert and verbal.   Guess which ones will be on the resident council.  So, if most of the residents respond best to "Jesus Loves Me," "My Bonnie Lies Over The Ocean," and "Let Me Call You Sweetheart," but some of the younger, more alert, more vocal participants keep asking for Patsy Cline, Elvis and Garth Brooks songs, some ADs will let those more vocal residents choose the singers who do what they like, even if it does not engage the majority of residents.
(I'm not saying you should ignore the "silent majority"--just that you could do a program that was perfect for 90% of the residents and not be invited back as readily as you would if you tailored the entire program to the other 10%.)

It's not a bad idea to explore these issues with the AD, to find out how they decide whether and when to invite a performer back.

Genie

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Genie
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 01:20 AM

Depends on the facility and the activity director, Mike.

I never ceases to amaze me how an AD at one facility will hire the same one or two musicians once or twice a month (sometimes twice a week) for decades, while another AD at a comparable facility will say s/he doesn't like to hire the same person more than 2 or 3 times a year because "our residents like variety." Even at the same facility, the tune can change when the AD changes.

Some ADs have the (unfortunate, I think) habit of hiring a person very frequently when they are "new" and then dumping them for someone else when, predictably, the residents start asking for something different for a change. (I'm talking independent and assisted living residences here, not nursing homes and Alzheimer's facilities.)

You're right, though, that in metropolitan areas there are enough places to play that you don't have to rely on playing at the same place more than a few times a year.

In my case, about 40% of my income is from regular clients, for whom I play 6 to 100 times a year. These save me a lot of paperwork and phone calls--but if one drops you (or goes bankrupt), it leaves a big void to fill.

Genie

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: musicmick
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 01:01 AM

Dont you believe it, Genie. Recreators value dependability and predictability above all other traits. Sure, they want new acts but, if you have done a good job for them, they will hire you again and again. Fortunately, there are lots of facilities whiich means an almost unlimited market. I rarely work at a facility more than twice a year, but with hundreds od nursing homes. retirement communities, senior centers, schools, libraries, synagogues, orginizations and associations within a thirty mile radius, I dont have to worry about not playing at a particular venue more often than once or twice a year. What you need to do is expand your market to provide you with enough work all the time. Have you found the agents in your area yet? If you write me directly, I can offer some specific ideas for you. You have a fine attitude and you seem to understand the nuances of this crazy business.

Mike

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Genie
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 11:15 PM

Good line by Dave Van Ronk, Mike, Right on the money!

Performers can, BTW, suffer from too much exposure. It happens to actors, rock stars, TV "personalities", etc. all the time-- and sometimes to folks on the retirement home circuit.

When I first contact a new facility, I'm often met with "Oh, great! We're always looking for new entertainers!" That's a welcome line when you're the "new entertainer," but it's also an omen. Some places will stop hiring you after the "new" wears off just because you're not new any more! Good reason for getting paid for the time you are in the public eye (whatever "public" that may be).

Genie

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: musicmick
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 03:24 PM

I have found that volunteering and charging are incompatable. This goes double for someone who is trying to establish a reputation and a client base. There are appropriate venues for volunteering music. There are benefits where many professionals give their time and talents to a cause. At such events, no one is paid. This includes staff as well as performers. Try singing for telethons or charitabile functions. That way, you will be donating your talent without jeopordising your professional standing. Jewish orginizations, Masonic lodges, community events not only have money for entertainment, they provide the lion's share of my income. It is an inescapable fact, you must be prepared to STOP singing for free if you want to get paying jobs. (The only exeptions are auditions and showcases.) And dont let anyone give you that bull about "...It will be good exposure". As Dave Van Ronk used to say, "Exposure is what a folksinger dies of, sleeping in a doorway."

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: musicmick
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 03:17 PM

I have found that volunteering and charging are incompatable. This goes double for someone who is trying to establish a reputation and a client base. There are appropriate venues for volunteering music. There are benefits where many professionals give their time and talents to a cause. At such events, no one is paid. This includes staff as well as performers. Try singing for telethons or charitabile functions. That way, you will be donating your talent without jeopordising your professional standing. Jewish orginizations, Masonic lodges, community events not only have money for entertainment, they provide the lion's share of my income. It is an inescapable fact, you must be prepared to STOP singing for free if you want to get paying jobs. (The only exeptions are auditions and showcases.) And dont let anyone give you that bull about "...It will be good exposure". As Dave Van Ronk used to say, "Exposure is what a folksinger dies of, sleeping in a doorway."

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Genie
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 04:47 AM

Rita, most nursing homes don't have a lot of folks with infectuous diseases--any more than a school or church does.  Folks are there to recover from broken hips, etc., or to be supervised by RNs in their daily activities because they need vital signs monitored (e.g., for diabetes, high blood pressure) and/or  supervision due to memory loss or other dementia.  When residents do catch a communicable disease like the flu, they tend to stay in their rooms while they recuperate.  Sometimes, though, "the flu" will kind of sweep through the home--as it might in a school; when this happens, they usually cancel entertainment programs.

I'd suggest addressing these, quite natural, concerns of yours with the folks who are thinking of hiring you.  They'll know how likely this is to be a problem at their particular faciltiy.  You may want to steer away from the Alzheimer's units, though, since folks with great cognitive impairment are often far less hygenic in their behavior than higher functioning residents are.  (Some of them, in fact, are likely to hug or kiss you or touch you in other unanticipated ways, which could be a problem when you have a compromised immune system.)  On the other hand, if you play for assisted living or independent living facilities, there would probably be no problem.  These folks are, for the most part, just old.

-----------------

Re charging some kinds of organizations/facilities and not others:  Yes, I think you can do this.  But I would base the decision on whether the org. usually pays for entertainment or not, and on the other perks you may get for singing there.  For instance, a lot of senior centers really don't have a budget for entertainment (except a small amount for holiday programs).  They tend to be more like co-ops than for-profit businesses, and the seniors who frequent them often provide the entertainment themselves.  On the other hand, they can be great places to network and drum up other business--and maybe sell CDs.

In my experience, the various Jewish organizations and the Masonic lodges, etc., not only pay for entertainment, they pay a higher hourly rate than most nursing homes do.  There again, though, you might sell CDs and drum up clients for private parties, etc., by doing a volunteer program.

You still may encounter expectations of your being "a volunteer musician," though, if the staff of a nursing home know that you perform free for the local B'nai Brith or Masonic lodge.  I'd recommend asking for some sort of honorarium for all of them, even if it's not a huge amount, if you want to establish yourself as a professional musician.

----

Marion, I took Ted's comment about the kitchen staff as relating to what I had said (early in the thread) about a kitchen staffer giving me grief about wanting to get the temperature down below 80 degrees.  Maybe he was referring to the staffer who played your violin.  Or maybe both.

What your mother describes is very much the kind of approach that I think especially merits being paid by the nursing home--especially if she puts together her own songbooks (which can take a lot of time).  She is providing the facility and its residents a program specifically geared to their needs--exactly what the state agencies say nursing homes need to provide.  This is quite different from  a performer just taking out a couple of hours to drop in and do one of their routine sets for the group with no attempt to accommodate the residents' tastes, requests, etc.  (The latter can be quite entertaining, but the home can also put on an audio or video tape if they just want to hear really good music.  You don't get the interaction with the residents and the group participation from that, though.)

And, yes, I do find it "funny" -- and quite telling -- that a facility would hire musicians to entertain their staff but use only volunteers to provide entertainment and music therapy to their residents (who, in one way or another, pay the bills!).

Genie

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Marion
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 02:51 AM

Re: "let someone from the kitchen cut into their act" and "the impertinence of a peripheral staffer":

I actually hadn't thought about it that way at all until now. I appreciated the girl's desire to do some of the fiddling because then I could accompany her on the piano, and I figure that a fiddle-piano duet would be nicer than a long stretch of solo fiddle. But I suppose it could have backfired, if she turned out not to be any good, so maybe it's too risky to let a stranger sit in. And maybe it has backfired on me with me realizing - if it made the AD look at me as less professional because of this.

I showed this thread to my mother today, who has been doing hymn singalongs at nursing homes as a volunteer for 25 years. She says that what makes her events there different from almost everybody else's (volunteer or paid) is that it's meant to be highly participatory, not a performance. They hand out lyric books, and ask for requests, and help people find their places in the books, and change tempo partway through a song to accomodate someone who's singing at a different tempo. She has also had many experiences of people who are apparently very disengaged from the world start to respond when a familiar hymn is sung - and the staff tell her that many people are more alert for hours after a hymnsing.

She also told me that while virtually all of the musicians who play at the nursing homes in our town are volunteers, for the volunteer appreciation dinners (to which the residents aren't invited), they hire a band. That's funny, but not in a ha-ha way.

Marion

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Ferrara
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 02:10 AM

Another question. Genie and Mike are agreed that you can't do pro bono work for one nursing home and expect to be paid by other nursing homes. Makes sense to me.

But what about doing other types of pro bono gigs that aren't in competition with your paid work? I played several times for groups like Kiwanis, and several Jewish service organizations. For some groups, I only played about 25 minutes because I was "guest speaker" at their meeting. A few offered to pay but asked whether I would donate the time. They all invited me to lunch with the group. If I played longer sets, I was paid.

Most of these little gigs led to other requests for me to play, and eventually to some paying gigs.

I've been sporadically working on a CD which -- if I can get it out! -- will probably sell well to these groups. Because of these threads, I have moved the CD project to the front burner again. (It's not my terrific musicianship that will sell CD's for me, it's the sound of my lovely old zither, and my repertoire of old parlor songs and old pop songs.)

Even if they don't pay me, I suspect I could sell a few CD's each time, maybe more than a few. And, each set is only 25-30 minutes, it's not comparable to performing for 40 minutes to an hour.

So. Would this be incompatible with playing for pay at retirement communities, nursing homes, etc?

Thanks for all the marvelous info in this and the day job thread, Mike, Genie, Jerry, everyone. Even if I find I have to avoid nursing homes, this thread is giving me so much valuable info for earning a bit of money from something I love to do.

Rita

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Ferrara
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 01:55 AM

Have been following this thread with interest although I don't have much to contribute since most (but not all) of my playing specifically for older people has been unpaid so far.

Marion's description of the requirements for being a hospital volunteer included a TB test, and she mentioned outbreaks of infection etc. do occur. This made me aware of a potential problem for me. Would like to know whether it's really likely to be a problem.

Here's the thing: I had a heart transplant almost 7 years ago. I take medications to suppress my immune system, and my white blood count (first line against infection) keeps getting lower. I stay pretty healthy, but I also don't work outside my home.

I can call my doctors and ask whether it would be a problem I guess. What I'd like, is your gut reaction to whether there's likely to be any real increase in exposure to infectious this-and-thats if one is playing in a nursing home. I'm hoping you will feel that this is a non problem.

Rita

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Genie
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 01:14 AM

Marion, what Mike says is right on. I'm sure I've said this before (somewhere in the forum), but one way to set yourself apart from most of the volunteer performers is to develop skills and play lists that are specifically geared to nursing homes. The activity directors can help you with this, and you will learn a lot just by doing this kind of music program frequently.

Genie

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: musicmick
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 11:14 PM

Marion, you are, indeed, in a bind. You will never be able to establish yourself as a professional if you are willing to perform without pay. Your potential customers will judge your value by what others have paid and, if they have paid nothing, that is the precise sum you will be offered. I know it's unfair but it is the way of the world. Too many facilities think that musicians should donate their services as it is. You are, already, in competition with people like Jerry, who never charge for their performances and create the impression that entertainment is free. You have to change their view of your worth and the only way to do that is to stop giving it away. When you are well established and can command you fee, you will be less comprimised by your charity. There will always be the gifted amateurs who play for charitable motives. They are not your concern. You must show that you are at a different level of skill and that you should be paid even though they are not. Otherwise, why should a facility pay you rather than book Jerry for free? You have to know that you are much better than the amateurs and you have to show that you know it by charging EVERYONE for your work. Yes, it is chutzbah but if you dont believe in yourself, why should anyone else? Good luck.

Mike

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Genie
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 08:29 PM

M.Ted., I'm sure the well-established entertainers in Florida's retirement-home circuit wouldn't take much gaff from the kitchen staff.  Where the entertainment/activity is highly valued, and paid a commensurate fee, the administrator would probably not be happy if an entertainer crossed them off her/his list because of the impertinence of a peripheral staffer.  (When you're just getting established, you have less clout.)

In nursing and convalescent homes, though -- places that have nurses, aides, etc. -- the activity or recreation therapy department is, unofficially, lower on the totem pole than are such "essential" departments as nursing and dietary.  Visitors and staff not only interrupt me, they interrupt the activity director in the middle of story reading, music, or other activities for which residents' attention is important--even memorial services.   I think it's mainly a reflection of the attitude that people do live by bread -- and meds -- alone; art, music, and spirituality are considered non-essential.

Also some staff simultaneously underestimate and overestimate residents' mental abilities.  Some see no point in trying to engage their minds--e.g., with a funny story or a ballad where you have to listen to the whole thing.  Others underappreciate their distractibiltiy, unaware that if they stand in the doorway and wave to residents, or come in and hug them during the program, they are often--no matter how well intentioned--lessening the cognitive and emotional stimulation the residents could have derived if allowed to participate in the activity uninterrupted.
 

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 03:18 PM

Genie: I'll PM you, since the answer to your question is not really an answer, but more the subject of an unrelated conversation--As for you, Marion, there are many retirement communities in Florida, and there is something akin to a performing circuit--there are a lot of professional entertainers who make a living there--but take my word for it, none of them let someone from the kitchen cut into their act--

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 07:30 AM

Hi, Genie, Mike and Marion: It took awhile, but I'm glad that we see each other clearly and appreciate what each of us does. In the long run, I'm just pleased that we're all going into nursing homes. Mike and Genie have a lot of good suggestions, which I don't as I'm not trying to get a paying gig out of nursing homes (I'm perfectly happy to ask for as much as traffic will allow in most other circustances though, so I am not necessarily altruistic.) I also realize that it costs money to play music. I've invested quite a bit in sound equipment, and appreciate the jobs that pay well to help offset that investment. Also, when I play with my quartet, a couple of the guys may have to give up the opportunity to earn money in other ways in order to come and play for nothing. That happens infrequently enough that they encourage me to get "bookings" as often as I can. And, having played folk music for pay so many years, I realize that bookings are often not much more than a break-even proposition even when you are paid. I especially appreciate what you've done, Mike, because I know that you are trying to make a living doing what you love, and that you bring an enormous amount of pleasure to other people with very little compensation. I commented once that "in folk music, there is no such thing as a career move." And it's true. It's a profession that only those who really love the music and performing would choose. The more you can get paid, the better. I also have found from experience that because I volunteer somewhere doesn't mean that the church or nursing home won't pay someone else. I have never felt that I'm taking work away from other musicians and I could give countless examples of places where I've sung for a fund-raiser where they hired someone else to do a program later. I don't have regrets. I get my paying jobs at places where they have volunteers, too. If anyone thinks that most musicians are in it for the money, they should be instituionalized.

I think I'll bow out here... good luck to all of you. :-)

Jerry

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Genie
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 04:21 AM

Marion, when I'm cancelled last minute due to unavoidable circumstances I try to reschedule the program, if I can, for a time that is not a high-demand time in my schedule.  If this is not possible, I generally just write it off.  After all, it occasionally happens the other way around --I have to cancel last minute (or reschedule) because of illness or getting stuck in a horrendous traffic jam or having a car break down.

I've toyed with the idea of requiring a cancellation fee if I'm cancelled on short notice (less than 2 months ahead of time for prime time gigs), but to pull that policy off, there's a lot of logistics to set up first, and I'm not sure it's worth my time.  Most places that would honor the policy will also pay me anyway if they have to cancel last minute.  (Exeter House in Seattle recently did just that when my scheduled program conflicted wtih the memorial service for a resident who died unexpectedly.)

Re service to the resident vs. service to the facility, I think when you do a program for the residents as a group, you are providing the service to the facility.  They usually have activities scheduled for Wednesday afternoon and pretty much all the hours when most residents are awake, and when volunteers provide those programs, it frees up their staff/budgets for other things.  To reiterate, most states require them to provide activities, not just have their residents sitting around all day with nothing to do.

One-to-one visits are less clear-cut in that regard,  The facility does (and is probably mandated to) provide activities for room-bound residents, but there is always more of a need for these visits than is budgeted for, so if you give them room visits beyond what they've scheduled, it really is an additional service to the residents.
(When residents go back to their rooms for a nap after lunch or are put to bed after dinner, some of them stay up and awake much longer than others; when you sing for these residents, I'd say your service is essentially to individual seniors, not so much to the facility.

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Marion
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 03:40 AM

Another question, Genie (I'm going to send you a present when our band gets on our feet):

Occasionally when I call in to volunteer, I'm told that the home isn't taking outside visitors because of an outbreak. How do you deal with this financially when it happens on short notice? Do you expect to be paid anyway, or paid a lesser cancellation fee?

Actually, one more thing; you said above that people need to realize that music is a service (paid, or donated) to the institution, not the residents. I don't think that's entirely true. While the institution is probably going to get live music for the Christmas party, and pay for it if they have to, they're probably not going to be booking music for next Wednesday afternoon. So whether or not I take the time to show up Wednesday afternoon makes a difference to the residents, not to the institution. So I think of my volunteering as a gift to the residents, who would in fact be left "sitting there in the quiet" at that particular time if I don't show up.

Marion

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Genie
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 03:39 AM

Marion, I think you've hit an important nail on the head:  "...volunteer gigs are quite different from what I would expect a paying gig to be - much more on my own terms...  ."  and "It's [the] extra headaches that I want to be compensated for - not the music itself. "  [Like all the red tape that hospital required.]

You're right that "waiting for the next call out of the blue isn't a good plan."

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Marion
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 03:25 AM

First of all, many thanks to Genie and Musicmic - I'm learning a lot from this thread and the day job thread.

Some more thoughts:

1. I see your point, Mike, about being consistent and not giving away what I want to sell, but it creates a bit of a dilemma as I'm halfway between amateur and pro - I want to play for money, but I'm willing to play for free. I've volunteered as a musician at nursing homes dozens of times, and found it very fulfilling. There's one home now where I go once or twice a month as a volunteer. I'd hate to have to stop doing that in order to pursue the professional option.

2. At the same time, my volunteer gigs are quite different from what I would expect a paying gig to be - much more on my own terms. I tell the home when I want to come, I don't dress up, I only bring my fiddle, and I wander from floor to floor playing maybe 20 minutes at a spot, and I don't have to talk unless people talk to me. Indoor busking, basically. The only costs to me are time and bus fare, and it's worth it to me to see how much people enjoy the music.

However, I imagine that it'll be different when I look for work with my band - we'll have to worry about being there on time, and dress up, and maybe buy sound equipment, and get around on crowded buses with more than one instrument, and take taxis if we need to bring a PA, and rehearse with each other, and book gig times that meet all our schedules as well as the homes', and prepare enough material to play a long time in one location, and talk between songs, and so on. It's all these extra headaches that I want to be compensated for - not the music itself.

3. I've had one paying gig at a nursing home party; and it's a little strange how I got the gig. There is another nursing home in my neighbourhood where I've been trying to volunteer... I've left them half a dozen messages in as many months, and they never call me back. However, an aide (not involved in activity planning) who works there brought my number to a different home she also works at and they called me up and offered me a paying gig, with no evidence of what I can do other than my phone message that "I'm a fiddler...". So maybe volunteering doesn't lead to gigs, but unsuccessfully trying to volunteer does...:)

4. At that party gig I played, there happened to be a girl volunteering (in the kitchen) who also played fiddle, so she borrowed my fiddle and played for a while too. In terms of musical skill, she totally kicked my butt (although I think I was better at choosing material that the audience liked). I was a little embarrassed at first that I was getting paid and she wasn't, till I reflected that this didn't have anything to do with our skill: it was because she presented herself as a volunteer and I presented myself as a professional.

Anyway, what I've learned from this is that there is money available and if I declare myself a professional then I've got as much of a shot at it as anybody - but I think waiting for the next call out of the blue isn't a good plan.

5. There's a hospital where I was going frequently to visit somebody, and I chatted with a band that was volunteering there. I suggested that I'd sit in with them on my next visit, and they said that I'd be welcome musically, I'd have to be properly registered as a hospital volunteer to play a tune with them, which meant getting a tuberculosis test, getting a couple of people to fill in reference forms, and attending a 4 hour orientation session. Sorry... too many hoops to jump through to play for free.

Marion

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Genie
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 02:48 AM

Jerry R, just to be clear, I'm not criticizing you, or anyone, for singing anywhere for free if it's not your primary profession and/or if there's a gig that you just plain want to do, for whatever reason, with no thought of compensation.  As Mike said, though, it's problematic to charge one school and not another or one nursing home and not another.  It seems we're all repeating ourselves--probably of necessity--to make sure our points have been communicated clearly.

I think we're in agreement that doing music as a professional for nursing homes is quite legitimate; that musicians deserve to be paid just like other artisans, professionals, workers; and that volunteering your time/service where it's needed is fine.  (I should add that most of the senior facilities where I play do use a lot of volunteer musicians --e.g., school and church choruses, retired musicians, and amateur musicians, as well as professional musicians who don't specialize in music for old folks--in addition to the musicians paid from their activities budget.  That is to say that folks who volunteer are not necessarily taking paid work away from those of us who charge; activities budgets are limited, and most places would like to have more activities than their budget allows.)

Nevertheless, the attitude that musicians should "play" for the love of it alone still persists--especially when it comes to nursing homes.  It's not unusual for family members who are present for my programs in nursing homes to gush at me, "I think it's such a wonderful thing that you're doing!"--with the possible/probable subtext "I'm assuming you're doing this as a volunteer."  (Do they say that to the nurses or doctors who treat the elderly?)  And, as Mike's bridge parable illustrates, the more people there are who are willing to provide a "service" free, the harder it is to make a living at it.  I think that's a reality musicians will always be up against, because -- unlike scrubbing toilets -- it's work that a lot of folks will do, and do well, for nothing.

Genie

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: musicmick
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 01:57 AM

Jerry, the name of the thread is Getting Nursing Home Gigs which, I assume, means paying jobs. As you dont seek paying jobs, my comments dont apply to you. Also, the term, amateur, is not a judgement of talent or ability. It means, literally, one who acts for the love of the activity. Those of us who perform for our suppers have chosen a field that, in general, is not as high paying or secure as others. We stay with our music careers because we love what we do, we do it well and we enjoy joy of expression and fulfillment that performing provides. We put up with many hassles trying to establish our businesses. We deal with low pay, slow play and clients who think we should get no pay. We are in a constant search for work. We dont get health benefits, we dont get retirement plans. We have little or no protection from clients who cancel at the last minute or who double book. Now, I am well established (I;ve been in this business for forty years) but the majority of the Mudcatters who are reading this thread are trying to make a niche for thenselves and, for them and for you, may I remind you of the out-of-work actor who decides to jump off a bridge and he meets a despondent prostitute who is also bent on suicide. He sums up their troubles saying, "Here we are, members of two noble professions, destroyed by amatuers."

Mike

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 01:06 AM

.... and Genie: I am not singling out musical performance and nursing homes as less appropriate for paid services. This is probably the fourth posting that I've made that says I have NO criticism of people who expect to get paid for singing in nursing homes. My closest friend all these years has tried to support himself and his family on folk music and couldn not do what I've been able to do because I had a decent paying regular job. I would only encourage him to get paid every time that he could.

The funny thing is, Genie (and musicmic) No matter how hard we all try, we all end up talking about ourselves. Please don't take anything I say about what I am doing as being any more than saying what I am doing. It is not a criticism of you, or a negative comment about what you're doing. But, I guess that makes it the fifth time I'e said it. And meant it.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 28 Jul 02 - 11:13 PM

Musicmic: For the record, I've sung for nursing homes since the early sixties and I have never charged a fee, and never been paid one. Never asked for one. We have two different motivations for singing at nursing homes here, and each is valid. I don't criticize you or Genie for wanting to be paid, and I don't feel that my wanting to volunteer my services justifies criticism either. I don't consider myself an "amateur" musician. I've also done benefit concerts for many worthy organizations, including Habitat For Humanity, churches, community centers and the United Way among others. And you're right, Genie... there are many ways to reach out to the sick and shut-in. It's something I've enjoyed doing for most of my life. My wife and I visit the sick several times a month... far more often than I am asked to sing. We also keep in touch by phone with those who are housebound who we can't visit as regularly as we want.

Perhaps I am not running my business professionally. But then, it's not my business. If it was, I would run it differently. I have been fortunate not to be dependent on making a living off music, and that's allowed me to give what I have as generously as I can. If others have different needs, that's fine. They just haven't been mine, and I'm grateful for it.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Genie
Date: 28 Jul 02 - 10:04 PM

I think the idea that musicians should perform free for "nursing homes" comes from looking at it as providing a service to the residents/patients, rather than viewing it as providing  a needed service to a business.  Most  doctors, accountants, social workers, nurses, cooks, caterers, landscapers, electricians, and educators, etc., who serve the nursing home will charge for their services; they realize they are selling to the business or agency the services that are needed to run that business.  The electrician doesn't think: "Gee, those poor old folks are going to be left in the dark if no one donates their services to install lighting."

Activities/recreation therapy programs are recognized in the field as being very important to maintaining residents'/patient's health and are mandated in many states.  Sometimes the regular staff can provide these without hiring outside help (e.g., using recorded music and/or the talents of the staff), but often the residents benefit more from having live performers--especially those who specialize in doing music for this population.  Hiring musicians and music therapists is every bit as legitimate an expense for the business as is buying party decorations or ice cream and cake for the resident birthday party (on top of the regular budget for meals), renting videos, buying prizes for bingo, and other parts of the typical activity budget.

Again, this is not to discourage volunteerism.  Musicians often do music for nothing--sing-alongs, church choirs, open mics, jam sessions, etc.  And lots of us do other volunteer work --tree planting, "work days" at the church, helping in soup kitchens, building homes for Habitat For Humanity, etc.  And if you are strictly an amateur musician (i.e., you never charge), by all means donate your musical services.  But if you want to help out the old folks in nursing homes, why limit it to music.  There's a great need for folks to read to shut ins;  if you've got a mild-mannered pooch, the residents would love to have a visit; if you're a teacher of anything, you can do some free tutoring; you can save the facility money by doing landscape maintenance or painting for free; etc.  Please, though, don't single out musical performance and nursing homes as being less appropriate for paid services than are other occupations and businesses.

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Ferrara
Date: 28 Jul 02 - 07:15 PM

Well, there are a lot of groups around here that donate their music to nursing homes, etc. That doesn't mean it's the only option.

Here my 2cents: If you are thinking of doing an occasional nursing home gig and have the time and want to be of service, then don't hesitate to do it for free. If you intend to invest a large amount of time and energy, and need it to pay, then don't hesitate to do it for pay if you can manage it. (We are speaking strictly of playing music here.....:-)

Rita

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: musicmick
Date: 28 Jul 02 - 06:50 PM

Jerry is, obviously, commited to his beliefs and conducts his business accordingly, but if I were the activities director of a facility that Jerry chose to charge a fee, I would be resentful that he regarded my facility less worthy of his charity than another and I would be very reluctant to hire him and his group.I just dont think that selective largesse is compatable with sound business practice. If Jerry wishes to donate his time and effort to a particular nursing home, he can, discretely donate his fee AFTER he receives it.(I would hope that the fortunate recreator has the good sense to keep word of Jerry's generousity to himself). Professionalism is an attitude. It means running one's business as a business with agressive sales, quality product or service and intelligent management. Bill Veek, that great showman who added pizazz to what had been the dull predictability of baseball team ownership, had lots of promotions to increase ticket sales. He gave away cars, vacations and livestock but he never gave away free tickets. In his book, "Veek As In Wreck", he says, "Never give away what you are trying to sell."

Mike

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: pavane
Date: 28 Jul 02 - 01:05 PM

Mrs Pavane regularly does nursing homes and day centres here in Wales, and they all have an entertainment budget. The standard fee is £30, plus £5 if she has to travel more than 20 miles. As noted above, this is very little per head.

She built up the list of about 40 homes by just calling those listed in Yellow Pages. Many of them have given her further leads.

She ALWAYS takes her own PA, and an extra mike (& long lead!) for residents (and staff) to sing along.

She has a programme of pop songs mainly from the 1940's to the 1960's, which she finds are always well received, and also does standards like Danny Boy.

Occasionally, when I am free during the day, we have played some folk music as well, mostly Welsh tunes, and that also goes down well. Quite a number of the residents turn out to have been singers or musicians, and they appreciate the live music.

As for 'freebies', she does do Charity shows occasionally, but no others.

PS She did a club in Hirwaun last night, and was told she was the best act they had ever had!

Subject: RE: Getting nursing home gigs
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 28 Jul 02 - 09:00 AM

As I said, early on, if you can afford to donate your services and find playing at nursing homes rewarding in other ways, everyone benefits. I wouldn't turn down an honorarium if offered, and for a special event, I'd ask for one. But just going to play for a room of people in wheel chairs on a Thursday afternoon for no reason other than that the days drag for the patients is something I love to do. If you need the money, I have no problem with that. But conversely, if someone wants to bring some joy to people badly in need of it and they don't need the money that badly that doesn't mean that they aren't valuing their music. When people ask how much my gospel group gets paid, I say our fee ranges from zero to $2,000. We've played for free, and we can get as much as $2,000 if we have to travel across country. It is our choice, how much we get paid. Or don't.

Jerry