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BS: PATRIOT Act 2

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GUEST,The Hated Guest 12 Feb 03 - 01:06 AM
Mark Cohen 12 Feb 03 - 02:13 AM
Donuel 12 Feb 03 - 08:34 AM
Greg F. 12 Feb 03 - 08:52 AM
GUEST,The Hated Guest 12 Feb 03 - 11:16 AM
GUEST 12 Feb 03 - 11:26 AM
Bobert 12 Feb 03 - 11:36 AM
GUEST,The Hated Guest 12 Feb 03 - 11:57 AM
GUEST,The Hated Guest 12 Feb 03 - 07:28 PM
Bobert 12 Feb 03 - 07:53 PM
Neighmond 12 Feb 03 - 08:20 PM
GUEST,The Hated Guest 12 Feb 03 - 08:51 PM
Bobert 12 Feb 03 - 08:55 PM
McGrath of Harlow 12 Feb 03 - 08:57 PM
GUEST,Hated Guest 12 Feb 03 - 09:11 PM
Bobert 12 Feb 03 - 09:16 PM
McGrath of Harlow 12 Feb 03 - 09:42 PM
GUEST,Forum Lurker 12 Feb 03 - 10:13 PM
beadie 13 Feb 03 - 11:15 AM
Mark Cohen 13 Feb 03 - 11:40 AM
maire-aine 23 Feb 03 - 01:20 PM
Janie 05 Aug 03 - 01:00 PM
Amos 05 Aug 03 - 01:20 PM
An Pluiméir Ceolmhar 06 Aug 03 - 04:41 AM
artbrooks 06 Aug 03 - 08:33 AM
GUEST,pdc 06 Aug 03 - 05:49 PM
GUEST 06 Aug 03 - 07:53 PM
Rapparee 06 Aug 03 - 08:01 PM
artbrooks 06 Aug 03 - 10:16 PM
Rapparee 06 Aug 03 - 10:22 PM
artbrooks 06 Aug 03 - 10:57 PM

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Subject: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: GUEST,The Hated Guest
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 01:06 AM

All Americans NEED to read this. Sections from the New USA PATRIOT Act (2). Ashcroft LIED about the existence of this document, but it has already been drawn up and is passing through committee in congress as I type. It'll be ready to go when the next 'terrorist event' occurs. Remember...Section 802 of the first PATRIOT Act defines terrorism as "any action that endangers human life that is a violation of any Federal or State law.":

SECTION 501 expands the Bush administration's "enemy combatant" definition to all American citizens who "may" have violated any provision of Section 802 of the first Patriot Act. (Enemy combatant = curbside execution)

SECTION 106 states that government agents must be given immunity for carrying out searches with no prior court approval. This section throws out the entire Fourth Amendment against unreasonable searches and seizures.

SECTION 109 allows secret star chamber courts to issue contemp charges against any individual or corporation who refuses to incriminate themselves or others. This section annihilates the last vestiges of the Fifth Amendment.

SECTION 321 authorizes foreign governments to spy on the American people and to share information with foreign governments.

SECTION 408 creates "lifetime parole" (basically, slavery) for a whole host of crimes.

SECTION 410 creates no statute of limitations for anyone that engages in terrorist actions or supports terrorists. Remember: any crime is now considered terrorism under the first Patriot Act.

SECTION 411 expands crimes that are punishable by death. Again, they point to Section 802 of the first Patriot Act and state that any terrorist act or support of terrorist act can result in the death penalty.

SECTIONS 427 sets up asset forfeiture provisions for anyone engaging in terrorist activities...you lose all property if you "endanger human life that is a violation of any Federal or State law."

http://www.infowars.com/print_patriotact2_analysis.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 02:13 AM

The site listed above is a bit on the hysterical side. The actual proposed legislation can be downloaded from this site. The bill in question starts on page 34 of the PDF document, after all the analysis. The bill seems to consist of lots of amendments to existing laws, which appear meaningless until you read the analysis. I'd have to ask the opinion of a legal expert to see if it seems to be valid and if the analysis makes sense. This site seems to be an anti-gun-control site, not one of my usual hangouts, but politics does make strange bedfellows. If this is real (and if it's a fake, it's an incredibly meticulous one), it's pretty scary.

Aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 08:34 AM

The expanded ammendments to the Patriot act is sadly a reality. However this was leaked by a source that now faces fines and imprisonment - if caught.

This bill was not to see the light of day UNTIL we officially attack Iraq. That way they could claim it was treasonous to question the bill when we have troops in the field that need our support.

The expanded bill includes provisions to make secret arrests of citizens and foreigners alike. Arrest members of lawful organizations that the Justice Dept. considers prudent. Dissenters could disappear en masse.

In summary this bill if passed would eliminate the last vestages of due process.


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 08:52 AM

Oh yeah, Mark, its real. Welcome to Amerika, land of the "free"....
more HERE


and HERE


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: GUEST,The Hated Guest
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 11:16 AM

Of course the site is hysterical. Read his analysis again...and again. The site is run by a guy who believes we are in the Biblical 'end times', but he doesn't throw out Bible quotes to substantiate what he believes. He quotes hard news sources. This is a rushed but fairly meticulous critique, and it wasn't done by the million lawyers who would mutate it even further in court. This bill is intended to KILL the Constitution. And Cheney and Hastert and all the others LIED about it. Now they want us spooked so they can claim they have just cause to pass it, so you can BET we'll be seeing another 'terrorist event' before long.

And yes the guy at the site in favor of the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms, but if you're against guns, then you'll LOVE PATRIOT Act 2 because it contains the entire 'Our Lady of Peace' Act, which outlaws guns in the U.S. Seriously. The Second Amendment gone. Destroyed by people who swore to protect and defend the Constitution.

I'm no Christian and I'm no right-winger, but this site has been on-target...invariably...since Sept 11. I saw film of the guy asking his cable-access audience locally to please call the White House in July of 2001...call and ask them to stop bin Laden from attacking NYC. The WTC. He analyzes so much news, he knew 5-6 weeks before the attacks what was coming, what the targets would be and who would be blamed. So he knows what he's doing, and he's pointed out that the BIG hurdle of the global crime syndicate seeking to take over the world is the disarmament and subjugation of America.


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 11:26 AM

And Donuel...

Yes, I believe this WAS leaked. Unless this is a mis-direction of some kind, but I don't see why they would present themselves in so bad a light as this as part of a mis-direction.

No, I believe it WAS leaked, and we're lucky it was. The PROBLEM the people destroying America are running into is that GOOD people still exist. Good FBI agents leaked the truth about Sept 11...so much truth was coming out that penalties had to be announced for anyone leaking stories...penalties 'for national security' reasons...but the stories still come out. So those folks are doing that at the risk of their lives now.

But this story...this one is the wake-up call. Or should be. This shows MOTIVE. This shows who would gain from another attack (govt would get increased funding as a financial motive, and increased social control as a practical motive). So someone risked his or her life and did us an enormous favor. This is the smoking gun before the crime. And the fact that the principal parties LIED shows malice aforethought. This is the most damning news story to ever appear in the American media.


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 11:36 AM

Well, HG, there is a siolverlining in all this. Bush is going to set up and democratic nation in Iraq so if things get too bad here at least there will be a place to go.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: GUEST,The Hated Guest
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 11:57 AM

Yeah...from one dictator to another. Hussein and the 'war' are just a pretext to release the CIA terrorists on the world. The Governor of Colorado now has the authority to dig mass graves, so I figure Denver is about to become our object lesson.

HG...makes me feel like a sci-fi writer, and the stuff sounds strangely LIKE sci-fi.

Mass Graves in Colorado


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: GUEST,The Hated Guest
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 07:28 PM

http://thomas.loc.gov/

Type in s.22

Senate version of PATRIOT Act 2. Thousands and Thousands of subsections. Criminalizes everything and stomps the hell out of the Constitution. These men and women took an oath to uphold the Constitution, yet they are killing the document in plain sight. I can only construe from this that they are not in the least concerned with our response. Therefore, we are marked for death. That HAS to mean either masses of foreign troops or technology that will make the job tidy.


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 07:53 PM

Well, HG, I have been giving alot of thought to your premise and my wife, P-Vine, says I should just shut up, cut my pony tail off, and not make any waves. Hey, she may be on to something. I have never considered myself unAmerican, though I came from a politically active family. My mom was arrested several times in civil rights and anti-war demonstartions and I ended up in jail a couple time myself. But, no, I never considered myself unAmerican.

But these are much different times. There is a very intolerant government in power that does not seem to have any respect for anyhting that you wouldn't hear preached in a *Christain Right* church. It's like the Jerry Falwell's of America have won over the government. How they did it is plain to see. They have created a coilition of big money and rednecks. Hey, ya got to hand it to them.

But back to what I was saying, yes, I do think there is a great chance that in the next year or two I will be arrested for speaking out against abuses. And should that occur, I don't think that I will be charged but just shipped off to one of their camps and won't come back. Paraniod? Maybe? But it is a concern for me since I have worked all my friggin life, paid my taxes, haven't broken any major laws, love my country and have worked in my community to try to make things better but I'm just not comfortable that with as many times I have criticized the erosion of liberty not only here but elsewhere, that my days are numbered.

But I have a tremendous faith in God so should I get taken I'll be okay.

Just one favor to ask of you HG. Because I am more transparent here than you, should I get collected before you and there is any internet freedom left, would you archive this post and put it out there so that folks will know that whatever Boss Hog thinks I did that was unAmerican, is a lie.

Long live the 1st Ammendment.

Screw the Bush regime...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: Neighmond
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 08:20 PM

Well, it's as plain as the snout on my face.

America will go into darkness.
America will fall to the enimies (domestic, I believe.)
Americans will soon enough be whispering in alleys and back rooms.
There will be hoarding and secret manufacture of contraband items   
(food, munitions, etc.)
There will be fighting.
There will be deaths.
THere will be a collective death.
THere will be a rebirth.
Weather we will live to see it is another issue.
Resist the evil doers in your own ways.
Rise up and fight.
Chaz


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: GUEST,The Hated Guest
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 08:51 PM

You bet, Bobert. Copy and paste it. Summarizes things pretty well, I would say. I'll print it out and staple the thing to the SOBs forehead should the chance ever present itself.

But I must say, on the hopeful side, that a lot of the government's actions lately seem to be bluff and bluster. Like they've got away with things for so long, in open view more or less, that they expect tomorrow to be like yesterday. But I believe something completely unexpected will eventually ignite the U.S. populace. Like that silly ad equating terrorism with SUV's. It'll be something so small it can't be forseen. And when the govt is held up for an accounting and responds with deadly force, all bets will be off.

Anyway, don't get too downhearted. People just have too much invested in their lives to change quickly. A change will come, though. And if not, I plan to make a HELL of an exit scene, so maybe the people behind me will know that not all is running smoothly in the checkout line. That's all I can do...speak out beforehand and squawk at the end. And that staple thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 08:55 PM

Good on you, HG!!!!

Keep "speaking out beforehand". That's all we can do right now, other than take to streets and complicate Boss Hogs plans.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 08:57 PM

Section 802 of the first PATRIOT Act defines terrorism as "any action that endangers human life that is a violation of any Federal or State law."

So dangerous driving counts as terrorism. Presumably if some State decided to ban cigarettes, that would count too, throughout the whole Union. Or endangering the lives of workers by ignoring safety regulations. Fair enough, I suppose.


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: GUEST,Hated Guest
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 09:11 PM

Yes...exactly. And the rules SHOULD be applied to the corporations and politicians, but what's the chance of that? The Bush White House admitted leaking false terror alerts for political advantage...ADMITTED it...which qualifies them for death penalties under their own new laws. But the ones who will be tormented will be the drivers and jaywalkers, etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 09:16 PM

Wes Ginny, 2008:

Little Will: "Well, uncle Rufus. Is it true that Mr Ashcroft came and took my daay 'cause he was washing down the sidewlak at Boss Hog's Pork Plant and din't put up a sign and someone slipped on the wet sidewalk?"

Rufus: "Yup, my boy. Ol' Ashcroft come around, took yer daddy away and there weren't no trial since they said your daddy was a terrorist for not puttin' up no sign about the sidewalk being wet.."

Little Will: "Well, was my daddy trying to overthrow the government by not puttin' up that sign?"

Rufus: "Well, Little Will, guess he was or Mr Ashcroft wouldn't have taken him away..."

Hmmmmmmm? Part #3975

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 09:42 PM

How come it's still legal to have terrorists like George Washington on your coins?


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: GUEST,Forum Lurker
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 10:13 PM

He wasn't a terrorist, he was a freedom fighter. Just like bin Laden back in the 70's.


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: beadie
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 11:15 AM

Washington wasn't a terrorist because A) he won, and B) he was our guy.

I still recall the old Bill Cosby routine about having a coin flip (ala a football game) before the battle.

REF: Captain Washington, this is Captain Cornwallis.    Captain Cornwallis, Captain Washington. Captain Cornwallis, you are the visitor, call it in the air. . . . Captain Cornwallis calls heads.   . . .    it is tails.    Captain Washington, you win the toss, what is your choice. . . . .   OK, Captain Cornwallis, Captain Washington says that your men have to wear red uniforms, shoot without aiming and march in a straight line . His men will wear earth tones, take careful aim at individual targets, and shoot from behind rocks, trees and bushes.

    . . . Have a good battle.


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 11:40 AM

And for those who are hoping the U.N. is still...they covered over Picasso's "Guernica" last month, so General Powell wouldn't have to give his press conference where people could see those disturbing images of war. That painting, of course, was done in response to the Nazis' first attempt at trying out their blitzkrieg war machine in response to a "troubling" situation in a foreign country. We don't call what we're planning blitzkrieg, of course...we call it "shock and awe."

Aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: maire-aine
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 01:20 PM

On positive sign is that some folks are starting to speak out against it. This editorial appeared in today's Detroit NEWS. For people not familiar with the Detroit newspaper scene, the News is a very conservative paper; I don't ever remember them coming out against a Bush policy so clearly. Detroit News: Block Ashcroft's Raid on Bill of Rights


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: Janie
Date: 05 Aug 03 - 01:00 PM

Read this.

Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: Amos
Date: 05 Aug 03 - 01:20 PM

An excerpt for the too-lazy-to-click crowd:

...."The Department of Justice reported 1,182 arrests under the Patriot Act; from those prisoners, its inspector general received 1,072 accusations that FBI agents and other department employees had violated their civil liberties, and in many cases physically abused them.

That's not a left-wing rumor. That's a gulag, a secret police state that's encroaching, case by case, on the smug affluent America where most of us live. You think you're exempt? In Tampa, (according to a source I trust), a retired naval officer was interrogated by FBI agents because he e-mailed the White House to protest the invasion of Iraq. In Atlanta, a retired attorney of impeccable reputation was arrested for trying to take photos of some storage tanks. An amateur art photographer, he admired the patterns of light and shadow. Marc Schultz is not alone.

As for me, the purveyor of subversion and sedition, I've heard nothing from the FBI--just a friendly nibble from cable news and a lot of encouraging "Give them hell" from fellow citizens, including a pair of congressmen. I would, if I could, overthrow this government by force of argument. I believe from the bottom of my non-partisan heart that the George Bush wolfpack is the most dangerous, least honorable, least sensible gang of thugs and cynics that ever aimed America's Big Gun at a trembling planet. I saw a bumper sticker I endorse--"Any Other Whore in 2004." But the USA Patriot Act has to be retired before the 2004 elections. Stand up, speak out--don't hunker down and wait for those bruisers in the cargo shorts to come looking for your son."


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 04:41 AM

Anyone who believes in democracy might also make the effort of clicking through to another article on the same site here about just how far privatisation of military operations is going in the US.

That really "contextualises" an article which I read earlier today in a French newspaper compmlaining about the "neoliberal influence" on sport in France! (For US Catters - liberal in Europe means just about the opposite of what it means in the US).


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: artbrooks
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 08:33 AM

Most of the privatization listed in those articles is actually taking place outside of the US, and I can't see anything there that breaks it down by US-funded and otherwise. This isn't necessarily bad, and is actually an extension (albeit an extreme one) of the contracting out of KP (Kitchen Police, aka cooks' helpers) that took place in the US Army decades ago.

Why train soldiers to be terrorists in order to provide an opposition force for other soldiers training to oppose terrorists? It is the nature of the military to want/need a logistical "tail" long enough to wag the dog, so a small team of 5-10 OPFOR would rapidly ballon into a dedicated unit of 50-100 that is unable to perform its "real-world" mission. If someone wants to sell these support services, and they can be purchased for about the same amount it would cost to do the same thing with troops, why not do it that way? When the job is over, so is the contract, which is an effective use of resources.


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 05:49 PM

Here's a beautiful example of your new Patriot Act, or Homeland Security Act or whatever other paranoia is going round right now:


In 19 years of using his security clearance to sweep floors at a plant owned by defense contractor Lockheed Martin, janitor Michael Lynch has done nothing to arouse suspicion.
Co-workers and bosses speak glowingly of Lynch, a brain-tumor survivor who's active in his church, building homes for poor people in Maine and West Virginia.

But because he and his family have struggled financially, the government now sees him as a threat to national security. Defense Department officials believe the janitor may be tempted to sell government secrets to get out of debt.

Last month, they asked a judge to revoke Lynch's security clearance.
Link to this completely disgusting story:
Poverty=Security Risk


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 07:53 PM

Victory Act

Ashcroft denied there was a 'Patriot Act 2' and technically he was telling the truth. It was called the 'Domestic Security Enhancement Act' and was ready to pass through Congress after another 'Pearl Harbor event'. But he got caught dissembling about it, so they've re-named it the 'Victory Act', so we can probably expect another 'terrorist attack' any time now.

A 'hawala', by the way is a cash transaction over $3,000, from what I understand. So after this law is passed, if you have more than $3,000 cash on you, you will be disappeared as a 'terrorist', and your property will go to the govt.

DG


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 08:01 PM

The US was contracting out certain functions back in 1969, when I was in Korea. The Security Guards at the bases were Koreans, working for a Korean security company. This had been going on looooooooong before I got there. These guards were armed with military shotguns, pistols, submachine guns, etc.

Ho-hum, what else is new??


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: artbrooks
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 10:16 PM

Hey, Rapper...I was in Korea in 1969...where were you?


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 10:22 PM

HHC 7th Inf Div (CMMI), Art. Camp Casey. Traveled all over, even up to the Z. Casey, Hovey, DivArty, Kaiser, Sea Range...that's all that come to mind right off hand.


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Subject: RE: BS: PATRIOT Act 2
From: artbrooks
Date: 06 Aug 03 - 10:57 PM

B 7/17 FA, 2nd ID, HQ at Camp Sanguri, but I was mostly on a guard post in the Z...I pissed off the battalion S-3 and got exiled.


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