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BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)

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GUEST 09 Nov 01 - 08:47 AM
DougR 09 Nov 01 - 01:22 PM
Jim Krause 09 Nov 01 - 01:48 PM
DougR 09 Nov 01 - 05:26 PM
GUEST,Steamed 18 Dec 02 - 05:18 PM
Amos 18 Dec 02 - 05:25 PM
GUEST,Dan Kelly 18 Dec 02 - 05:51 PM
curmudgeon 18 Dec 02 - 06:34 PM
GUEST,Dan Kelly 18 Dec 02 - 07:06 PM
SINSULL 18 Dec 02 - 07:11 PM
GUEST 18 Dec 02 - 07:32 PM
BanjoRay 18 Dec 02 - 07:43 PM
GUEST,Dan Kelly 18 Dec 02 - 08:07 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 18 Dec 02 - 08:49 PM
GUEST,Steamed 18 Dec 02 - 08:51 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 18 Dec 02 - 09:16 PM
NicoleC 18 Dec 02 - 10:06 PM
GUEST 18 Dec 02 - 10:38 PM
GUEST 19 Dec 02 - 11:00 AM
kendall 19 Dec 02 - 12:11 PM
Glade 19 Dec 02 - 01:54 PM
Bobert 19 Dec 02 - 02:06 PM
kendall 19 Dec 02 - 03:08 PM
DougR 19 Dec 02 - 03:38 PM
Irish sergeant 19 Dec 02 - 03:46 PM
GUEST,Impeach Bush (formerly Steamed) 19 Dec 02 - 04:08 PM
GUEST,Forum Lurker 19 Dec 02 - 10:08 PM
GUEST 19 Dec 02 - 10:50 PM
Bobert 20 Dec 02 - 04:17 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 20 Dec 02 - 05:20 PM
Neighmond 20 Dec 02 - 09:17 PM
GUEST,Impeach Bush 21 Dec 02 - 10:43 AM
Bobert 21 Dec 02 - 11:36 AM
GUEST,Impeach Bush 21 Dec 02 - 12:04 PM
Don Firth 21 Dec 02 - 01:03 PM
Bobert 21 Dec 02 - 01:11 PM
Don Firth 21 Dec 02 - 02:07 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 21 Dec 02 - 04:20 PM
leprechaun 22 Dec 02 - 03:03 AM
GUEST,Impeach Bush 22 Dec 02 - 10:01 AM
leprechaun 22 Dec 02 - 01:04 PM
GUEST 22 Dec 02 - 01:23 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 22 Dec 02 - 02:11 PM
Donuel 22 Dec 02 - 08:15 PM
GUEST,Impeach Bush 23 Dec 02 - 11:22 AM
GUEST,Impeach Bush 23 Dec 02 - 11:31 AM
Don Firth 23 Dec 02 - 03:08 PM
GUEST 23 Dec 02 - 05:37 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 23 Dec 02 - 06:14 PM
BlueJay 24 Dec 02 - 06:28 AM

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Subject: USA PATRIOT ACT Part Deux?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 01 - 08:47 AM

As if the USA Patriot Act wasn't bad enough, have a look see at the new rule posted in the Federal Register without allowing for public comment:

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20011108/pl/attacks_monitoring_4.html


Click for previous thread


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT ACT Part Deux?
From: DougR
Date: 09 Nov 01 - 01:22 PM

Yes, Guest, I read the story. I assume you are concerned about it, else why would you have posted it?

It appears to me you are still in the WW2 mode. Things are different now and call for different law enforcement measures. This is one of them, I suppose.

Don't get thrown in jail for suspected terrorist activities, and you won't have to worry about it! :>)

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT ACT Part Deux?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 09 Nov 01 - 01:48 PM

I agree with Doug. After all, most crooks get caught for traffic violations, or tax evasion. So keep your head down, drive the speed limit, use your turn signals, and whatever you do, resist the urge to rob that convenience store!
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT ACT Part Deux?
From: DougR
Date: 09 Nov 01 - 05:26 PM

Ari Fleisher was asked about this at the White House briefing today. He said that the law was very narrow on this point in that it is aimed at only individuals that the AG believes to be highly suspicious suspects. Even if tapes are made of conversations they cannot be used in a court of law as evidence unless a higher court approves. At least that is my understanding.

DougR


Messages from multiple threads combined. Messages below are from a new thread.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: BS: USA PATRIOT Act
From: GUEST,Steamed
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 05:18 PM

This is from the USA PATRIOT Act, which attempts to kill the U.S. Constitution. I'm only posting it here because I find it hard to believe folks are not aware they are committing terrorism (according to the illegal government in Washington) when they speed on a highway...802, a, 5, A:

SEC. 802. DEFINITION OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM.

(a) DOMESTIC TERRORISM DEFINED- Section 2331 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in paragraph (1)(B)(iii), by striking `by assassination or kidnapping' and inserting `by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping';

(2) in paragraph (3), by striking `and';

(3) in paragraph (4), by striking the period at the end and inserting `; and'; and

(4) by adding at the end the following:

`(5) the term `domestic terrorism' means activities that--

`(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act
From: Amos
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 05:25 PM

I don't think speeding come sunder criminal laws, but rather civil and municipal ones. Except in cases of hot pursuit or defiance of controlled substance provisions or while DUI or such.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act
From: GUEST,Dan Kelly
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 05:51 PM

Steamed: did you give us the full story? There was originally some extra language:

and which "appear to be intended" to "intimidate or coerce a civilian population" or "to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion."

Is that gone? I don't have time at the moment to get this down pat.


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act
From: curmudgeon
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 06:34 PM

This phrase from the USA Scoundrel's Act is terrifying:

"... acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; "

What will the pro-war, pro-capital punishment(ritual murder) right-to-lifers do with this one?


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act
From: GUEST,Dan Kelly
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 07:06 PM

Curm: The act also (I believe) allows the FBI to wiretap with no showing of probable cause on ordinary domestic crime (no good faith linkage to terrorism required.)


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 07:11 PM

I repeat "And if Mommie is a Commie, then you've got to turn her in..."
"The John Birch Society"
A parody that just may not be funny anymore.


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 07:32 PM

Okay, I did it myself. But this is not necessarily the final version. (Thomas.loc.gov takes some patience). The "and" between (B) and (C) is (should be)implied between (A) and (B). That is, you need all three things (unless its been changed or corrected):

`(5) the term `domestic terrorism' means activities that--

`(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;

`(B) appear to be intended--

`(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

`(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

`(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and

`(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.'.


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act
From: BanjoRay
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 07:43 PM

Looks to me (as a brit) that "appear to be intended" means "we will assume it's intended until proven otherwise"
Maybe this is why we don't have a written constitution in the UK - it would be too easy for some unelected bastard to alter it.
Ray


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act
From: GUEST,Dan Kelly
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 08:07 PM

As I think about this, I wonder about freedom of assembly: rallies - peace rallies, anti-globalization, whatever. They are clearly intended to influence the policy of a government, and should they get raucous, or should some act out, ....


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 08:49 PM

The patriot acts without a brain
To keep the status quo insane
So little thought and so offensive
It's far too much to be retentive

Despotic leaders take the cake
And cry for blood, their thirst to slake
And then they bend the rules it's true
And leave but crumbs for me and you

Pyramids of fear have formed
Beneath the ones who desert stormed
While better folk are hand to mouth
With bugs and taps from north to south

Do not fear, you all who love
Shed your tears and rise above
Set your sites to better bests
Labor honest, love the rests...ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act
From: GUEST,Steamed
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 08:51 PM

VOTING IS INTENDED TO INFLUENCE! WAKE UP, PEOPLE! WE HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO WAS APPOINTED, NOT ELECTED. ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE NOW. YOU GET NO LAWYER IF YOU ARE AN 'ENEMY COMBATANT'. IN AMERICA. ARREST, SECRET TRIAL AND EXECUTION IN AMERICA! COPS ALWAYS SELECTIVELY ENFORCE, AND THEY ARE ALREADY BEING TAUGHT TO APPLY SECTION 802 TO ALL ROUTINE SITUATIONS. YOU ARE STONE COLD DEAD IF YOU ALLOW THIS TO CONTINUE. OUR FOUNDING FATHERS REVOLTED OVER A 2% TAX RATE AND FAAAAAAR FEWER RESTRICTIONS THAN THESE. THE NEXT GOVERNMENT-ORCHESTRATED TERRORIST EVENT WILL PUT AN END TO GUN SALES. BUY GUNS NOW TO PROTECT YOUR FAMILIES. YOU ARE A DOMESTIC TERRORIST IF YOU REGISTERED TO VOTE IN THE LAST ELECTION. BUY GUNS OR YOUR CHILDREN WILL DIE IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS.


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 09:16 PM

Ummmmm Steamed? Helllloooo? HEY STEAMED! Try counting to 10, and take a deep breath... Now, how about coming down from there before we have to call for professional help... OK? Come on... that's it'... there now what songs are you playing lately there Steamed? Yeh,... I think yer gonna be OK.


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: NicoleC
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 10:06 PM

Do you get the impression that "Steamed" owns stock in maybe Smith & Wesson or Glock?


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 10:38 PM

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20011108/pl/attacks_monitoring_4.html

The yahoo link above isn't working. They removed the story. Did anyone copy it? I'd like to read it. Or can someone synopsize it...what it related to?


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 11:00 AM

Shut up and obey the new patriot regs!


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: kendall
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 12:11 PM

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. Thomas Paine?


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: Glade
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 01:54 PM

RE : Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. Samuel Johnson, 1775.

Glade


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 02:06 PM

Well, danged. If we're going to take the Bush Doctrine to extremes then what the heck are we gonna do with the major US corporations who have helped Saddam with his weapons programs. And how about the assistence he has gotten from the Department of Defense, the Department of Commerace and the Department of Agriculture?

A few of the corporations who have been in and out and back in bed with Saddam are, according to yesterday's German newspaper "Die Tagezeitung" who has come upon an unedited of the Iraqi disclusure, : Hewlett Packard, Honeywell, Dupont, Rockwell, Techtronics, Bechtel, International Computer Systems, Unisys and Sperry and TI Coating. These are a few of the 24 major corporations who have helped Saddam.

Now, it would take a team of lawyers and accountants to unveil the subsideries and off shore companies that are also involved.

Just food fir thought here, kids. Especially with the loose cannon "with-us-or-against-us" president we have squatting in the White House.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: kendall
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 03:08 PM

I knew it was one of them old dead radicals!


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: DougR
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 03:38 PM

TTR: I imagine that those who lie in graves here, and abroad, because they gave their lives for our freedom would find your poem most stirring. IF they were here to read it.

Bobert: Why you getting so excited about all those "terrible" corporations that did business with Saddam? He says he DOESN'T have weapons of mass destruction doesn't he? You don't doubt him do you? Think of all those employees of those "terrible" corporations who had jobs because their company had a client! You are always on the side of the worker aren't you?

And in order to keep the promise I made earlier, "Silent Night."

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 03:46 PM

While I'm not as steamed as Guest: Steamed is, There are provisions in this law that warrant serious consideration and discussion if we are to remain a free society. I specifically don't like giving our attorney general such broad and sweeping powers. urge your elected representatives to do all they can to ovwerturn this bill. thatis what they get paid for. Kindest regards, neil


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: GUEST,Impeach Bush (formerly Steamed)
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 04:08 PM

Begging your pardon, but our elected officials at the national election are going to ramrod all repressive legislation they can down our throats while a so-called 'conservative' is in the White House. Bush is AGAINST closing the borders. Rep. Tom Tancredo spoke out in favor of closing the borders, and he is now targetted for removal by his own Republican party. Trent Lott a month ago urged Bush to finally outlaw Partial Birth Abortions (an absolute no-brainer for conservatives), and now Bush is trying to get rid of Lott. Bush is a Marxist, folks. He is for the destruction of American sovereignty and implementation of U.N. population control programs. Hate to break it to you, but Clinton and Gore would have been watched too closely to get away with the stuff Bush has done. He Nationalized Schools with national Testing (Bush, not Clinton). He Nationalized Religion with faith based initiatives (Bush, not Clinton). He Nationalized the police forces with Homeland Securitym (Bush, not Clinton). Bush is UNILATERALLY cutting our nuclear weapons stockpile from 7,200 warheads to 1,700 'regardless of what the Russians do'. He is now going to make us dependent on government handouts by changion 401K rules, eliminating IRA retirement accounts and bankrupting Social Security. EVERY ACTION HE HAS TAKEN IS MARXIST. DON'T be misled by party 'labels' anymore. Bush is intentionally wrecking the U.S. economically and socially. He is the greatest taitor this country has ever produced.


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: GUEST,Forum Lurker
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 10:08 PM

Bush is about as far from Marxism as is humanly possible. He may very well be a totalitarian and almost certainly a fascist (meaning that he favors the good of the state over that of the individual), but he does not believe in redistributive economics. Further, he does not appear to be attempting to make us dependent on "government handouts", as he is opposed to the existence of such handouts. Also, why is it a bad thing that he is reducing our weapons stockpiles? 1,700 nukes will do plenty of damage, and I don't think that we'll ever say "We could really use an extra, oh, 5.5 GIGATONS of nuclear weapons about now." Besides, Dubya can't be a traitor if he controls the nation. A despot, yes, but not a traitor.


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 02 - 10:50 PM

He swore an oath to uphold the Constitution and violates it every time he signs legislation. Corporate fascism and Marxism are the same. Wealth will be redistributed, but you will only get pennies on the dollar for your investment. The President of China himself said capitalism is the ultimate flower of communism. And Bush is dismantling our weapons while China threatens to nuke us daily. He is putting us in a position where we have to surrender to China or suffer nuclear strikes. George W. Bush will be tried and executed for his crimes. He's headed for a gurney and a needle, if he doesn't duck into the bunker he created for the illegal 'shadow government'.


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Dec 02 - 04:17 PM

GUEST! GUEST! GUEST!: I like that little discussion you all got going on amoung you S-E-L-F. No not "selves". It's a purdy interesting option that you have in GUESTdom. You can just talk to yerself and then answer yourself.

Hey, I'm not being critical here, because for the most part I gotta agree with ya'. The "gurney and the needle" one I thought went a tad too far BUT the "Bush as a Marxist" was real entertaining and thought provoking.

Personally, I kind of like have fewer nuclear weapons. There is that point of *diminishing returns* and I figure that point is when you have enought to destroy the earth's population. Beyond that, it seems to be a complete waste of money. Kinda like a guy whoes doctor has told him that he has 24 hours to live and stops at the grocery store and buys green bananas. Nevermind.

You were saying, GUEST?....

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 20 Dec 02 - 05:20 PM

Bush is a Marxist like Cheney is a flower child... Capitalism and communism have little in common... Guns do not make touchy people peaceful... China is no more going to nuke anybody, than I am going to be successful at trying to talk sense to a mentally disturbed flamer...

And uhhh, DougR... the dead war heros that you spoke of... You know, the ones that died in valour, fighting for the freedoms that Bush's crew is throwing to the wolves... and these dead and wounded heros, who gave their lives for principles we barely can comprehend, roll over in their graves every time you come up with some vacilating comeback put on in the name of George Bush,... in the name of Truth and Justice... Hmmmmmmmmm?;^/ ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: Neighmond
Date: 20 Dec 02 - 09:17 PM

Sad be the grave, but oh! I'll love it
Sadder is the world above it.


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: GUEST,Impeach Bush
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 10:43 AM

Bush Administration flunkies like Hubbard are now openly admitting that the tax burden in America needs to be shifted off the wealthy and onto the middle class. The Bush Company oversaw the Sept. 11 attacks in order to stimulate the economy 'their' way. And what we had afterwards was Bush declaring a 'state of emergency' which activated hundreds of Presidential powers to invoke martial law and manipulate the economy. Then he announced a ten year war and no one squawked, then...no, make that a twenty year war. No one squawked. Then it was a 50, no, a 100 year war, now it's a perpetual war. So forever, now, the President can do anything he wants. And this presidential-appointee has taken us from record surpluses to the beginning of a depression in two years. Now he's changed 401k rules so that your employers can do what THEY want with YOUR money. IRA retirement accounts are next. Social Security...ten percent will be 'invested' in the stock market. That means ten percent will go directly into the Corporate Fascist CEO's pockets. Ten percent of everything you ever paid into Social Security will go to the 500 CEOs of the Fortune 500. And now Bush has said rich countries need to carry poor ones, and beginning next October, hundreds of millions of American dollars will begin flowing from Social Security to Mexico, to help with THEIR retired. Because Bush said so. The American dollar is wobbling and the price of gold is skyrocketing as a result of all this.

A few months ago, there was a 5-day blitz of Administration sound-bites. Cheney said an American city would be nuked if congress held more than one closed-door investigation into Sept. 11. Treasury Sec. O'Neill said America was a bad place to invest. Rumsfeld said another terrorist was coming, 'when, not if'. Colin Powell and GWBush also made major policy statements detrimental to the economic health of the U.S. The JOB of these people is to bankrupt America. They've already announced 2007 we are switching to the Amerodollar. See, 79% of Europeans are against the European Union. The only way the global bankers could achieve that forced union was to use 'trade deals'. The same is going on in America with NAFTA. We don't want to be part of Mexico, yet we now have a Unified Military Command (NORTHCOM) which, the Pentagon claims, controls all of North America. And concentration camps are being built in America. And money is being printed out twenty-four hours a day. All this new spending for 'the war on terror', and tax cuts, and our surplus is gone...so where is the money coming from? They're just printing more. More worthless paper money. That is the job of the Bush Company...to make the dollar worthless. And when they achieve that goal, we are going to revolt. And concentration camps are set up and waiting.

No, Bush may not be Marxist...he is far beyond it. The feudal world government system coming out of this is just a return to the middle ages. We'll be serfs. Serfs of the U.N. GWBush signed America on to the first worldwide tax. Did you folks know that, or were you distracted by his orange/yellow alert the week he went to the U.N. meeting at Monterrey, Mexico? Clinton couldn't have done it, but Bush signed us on to a financial tax, to be collected on currency exchanges worldwide. I don't swap dollars for pesos, but those who do now have to pay a tiny percentage in tax. I think worldwide it adds up to about 3 billion dollars a year. And that money goes to the U.N. So now the U.N. is an official government...it has a standing army and taxing authority. And GWBush, him and him alone, made that possible. GWBush, with the stroke of a pen, created living, breathing world government. And now they put GPS boxes in your cars for the eventual purpose of tracking you for taxing....someday, you will owe 110% of your income in taxes. Can't pay? Work it off in your spare time by doing Homeland Security work. 'Mandatory volunteerism'. That's what Bush means by that phrase.

All this world government stuff wouldn't be so bad if it were a BENIGN world government, but they kick off the transformation by bringing down skyscrapers, and in his 1996 book which outlines all this, Zbigniev Brezinski talks about the world after the feudal families and corporations take over. He talks about 'maintainence wars' being needed regionally. So...the purpose of the world governtment is NOT to eliminate war and bring people together in peace. Just like in Iraq...the U.N. is already talking about the type of government that will replace Hussein. If the war was about getting rid of a madman, then Iraqis should have self-determination afterwards, right? So why is the U.N. making decisions now on what will come after the war? Don't be deceived by the false claims of the Bush Company and the U.N. Usually, what they say is 180 degrees opposite the truth. They are so clumsy they make you look COMPLETELY the other way when diverting your attention.

There, that limbered up the fingers.


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 11:36 AM

Feel better, GUEST? I think you are giving to much credit to the U.N. as a world governing body and not enough focus on Boss GWB Hog who really is the madman here.

Whereas we have disagreed in the past on the active role that the GWB played in 9/11 I'm do believe that he did play a *passave* role in allowing it to occur. The fact that the only non military aircraft that flew over US soil on 9/12 was a Saudi airliner collecting some of Bin Laden's relatives for protection, I think is tellling evidence.

And I agree that on paper it looks very much like GWB would like very much to end Jefferson's little expierment and may actually pull it off.

But I don't think a Bush slam dunk victory is chizzeled in stone. Yes, he has certainly messed up more stuff in a short period of time than we thought he was capable of messing up but I think he may not get the right combination of nationalism and events to fall in place for him to call off the '04 elections. Yes, I know that irregardless of who wins what in Congress, that Bush will be re-selected because he will be balancing two or three wars and voters don't like changing Presidents in the middle of such, BUT, it is my hope that someone will come out from the woodwork, call Bush for the crook he is, capture the imagination of the voters who have given up on democracy and carry 10% of the vote for the Green Party.

But this won't happen if there isn't that person. But I have a feeling that over the next year, we will slowly see the emergence of a new voice of reason coming out. Of course there is always the scenerio where the right wing does with this emerging figure what it did to the Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King but I am still of the niave opinion that they wouldn't dare do it again. If I'm wrong, GUEST, then your scenerio may actually come to pass as Bush declares martial law in Jnauary of '05 and the rest will just have tomplay itself out in an America that is hard to fathom today...

Hey, history does tend to repeat itself, sadly enough...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: GUEST,Impeach Bush
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 12:04 PM

The left/right, Republican/Democrat paradigm is phony. There is no difference between Bill Clinton and GWBush. Clinton TRIED to do the stuff Bush was doing, but he was watchedogged by the Rep. congress. Now Bush is passing big-government legislation, and the Dems. are eating it up...not standing in his way at all. And chump Republicans are just following the leader. We've been had.

In his speech to the Soviet Politburo in Novermber of 1987 (just before the 'fall of the Berlin Wall'), Mikhail Gorbachev said: "Gentlemen, comrades, do not be concerned about all you hear about Glasnost and Perestroika and democracy in the coming years. They are primarily for outward consumption. There will be no significant internal changes in the Soviet Union, other than for cosmetic purposes. Our purpose is to disarm the Americans and let them fall asleep."

And now GWBush says he WILL cut our nukes from 7,200 to 1,700. Putin has said HE wouldn't reduce the Russian arsenal. And Bush just gave the latest generation of supercomputers to the Communist Chinese BEFORE they were even available to American concerns. We're being set up by our own 'leaders' for nuclear attack. Why do you think they created the bunkered 'shadow government'?

America's industrial base has been reduced by 85% in the past 30 years. The country is being cleared for attack. All the valuable stuff (our industry) is going overseas. We are marked people, and GWBush is just continuing the trend that was set in motion long ago by the global bankers.

And now we're being offered John Kerry as some kind of alternative. Both Kerry and Bush are Skull and Bones members...the Illuminati organization at Yale University. Did you know that G. Bush Sr. dedicated his son to Lucifer at the Skull and Bones compound? It is a Luciferian / Illuminati organization dedicated to the destruction of Christianity / Islam / Judaism. So that's our choice? Two Luciferians?

Buy guns, folks. The General who held the NORAD jets on the ground for 75 minutes Sept. 11 has just been promoted to Supreme Commander of North America and is calling for troops on the streets. And American troops are all being shipped overseas, so that means Pakistani and Chinese and Mexican military coming to your neighborhood. Shoot for the adams apple or the groin, since the cowards will be wearing body armor. And buy guns and ammo...now.


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 01:03 PM

Just a minor point (and it is just a minor point when it comes to practical reality):—

Under Communism, everything is owned by everybody, and what might be done with anything is administered by an all-powerful government.

Under Fascism, everything is privately owned, and what might be done with anything is administered by an all-powerful government.

Under Communism, they are called "gulags." Under Fascism, they are called "concentration camps." Barbed wire is called barbed wire under both systems.

Major point:—

Our elected officials all take an oath to preserve and protect the Constitution. Any attempt on the part of any elected official to negate the Constitution in any way can and should be construed as treason.

End of basic political science lecture.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 01:11 PM

Hmmmmm, Don? Ya' think anyone has told Ashcroft that the Bill of Rights *IS* part of the Constitution?

He should know that, I would think, because he is a lawyer, ain't he?

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 02:07 PM

Well . . . lawyers. . . .

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 04:20 PM

Why are we falling for all this BS?


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: leprechaun
Date: 22 Dec 02 - 03:03 AM

Well whether you want to believe it of not, all those satelites up there are controlled by our corrupt government. You probably think they're just spying on you in your back yards and FLIR'ing into your bedrooms. But Bobert, the GUEST formerly known as Steamed, and my own humble self know better. Don't tell me you really expected your government to tell you when they developed the technology to look directly into your brain with those satelites. It's been happening for years I tell you. For that very reason I suggest everybody who wants to protect the privacy of your own brains take these few simple steps. I admit these precautions may cause the government to single you out, but I'm talking about the essential defense of our precious liberties. I for one, am willing to risk it for the sake of my brain.

It really doesn't take much to distort the signals our corrupt government is beaming into our brains from all those satelites. Just make sure you always wear a hat lined on the inside with a thick layer of aluminum foil. On particluarly bad days, when several satelites may be attacking your brain at once, you may opt to affix metal campaign buttons to the outside of the hat. You don't have to completely cover it. Just put enough on to disrupt the signals. And don't ever take it off, even when you're sleeping!

Don't think you're safe just because you're indoors. Those satelites will reach right through the roof. My head got really itchy last month so I had to spend a whole evening lining the ceiling of my room with aluminum foil. I took a tip from another thread and bought the alumninum foil from the grocery store using a club card I obtained under a false name. You can never be too careful.

It sure felt good to finally be able to scratch my head.


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: GUEST,Impeach Bush
Date: 22 Dec 02 - 10:01 AM

(B) Such terms include exotic weapons systems such as--

(i) electronic, psychotronic, or information weapons;

(ii) chemtrails;

(iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems;

(iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons;

(v) laser weapons systems;

(vi) strategic, theater, tactical, or extraterrestrial weapons; and

(vii) chemical, biological, environmental, climate, or tectonic weapons.


......That is from H.R.2977. Go to http://thomas.loc.gov/ and type in H.R.2977 for the full bill. It's not very long and sounds pretty innocent. Sponsored by Democrat Dennis Kucinich. But the bill proposes outlawing these weapons ABOVE 60 KM. Outlaws 'space based' weapons. The wording makes it sound otherwise, but it's a mis-direction. Like I said...the Bush Company directs you 180 degrees opposite. This bill would outlaw these things in space....but what about here on the ground? At this moment, at least one of these weapons (the microwave device) is being fitted to humvees for domestic use. Crowd control. They're going to fry your ass if you protest. They not only plan to kill the right to assemble with the PATRIOT act, they plan to kill you and your babies if you go down to the protest. Microwave your babies. And this is from THE GOVERNMENT'S OWN WEBSITE.

As far as what can be done about this...buy guns and ammo. Firefightgers in Arkansas have already been told that if there is a case of smallpox anywhere in the world, the Governor would order all citizens of Arkansas forcibly vaccinated. And the firefighters are going to be the main people manning the checkpoints, driving the school busses to round people up to take them to the schools, etc. So let the firefighters in your area know they (arguably the bravest people in our society) are being set up as human shields and you don't want to have to shoot them.

The bill above talks about chemtrails...the first government document to do so. A couple months ago Freedom of Information Act documents showed that the U.S. Air Force sprayed Sarin nerve gas in 'tests' over Florida, Alaska, Alabama, Maryland 'in the 1960's'. They got caught on that one specific incident but said it was the only one. Nonsense. We've been subjected to fifty years of government spraying in order to destroy our immune systems, and some scientists now say the simple smallpox vaccine could kill between 14-30 million Americans. So don't retreat from this. Post information like I do. Pass it on.

www.infowars.com    And LISTEN to this guy's broadcasts.


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: leprechaun
Date: 22 Dec 02 - 01:04 PM

Gosh willickers! Maybe I need another layer of alumnium foil.


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Dec 02 - 01:23 PM

http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2002_11/chembiotestsnov02.asp

Our government using Sarin and VX nerve gas on us.

http://www.savannahnow.com/stories/051602/LOCsoldierarrest.shtml

The only case of terrorism on American soil since the anthrax scare...and the army did it.


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 22 Dec 02 - 02:11 PM

I just saw a commercial on the Tele that said that the money you spend on illicite drugs goes to support terrorism... Or at least some of it does... Well now I uhhhh... lets see here...I'm of the opinion that the drugs are a passing fancy for misspent youth, and could easily be discarded... But if we wish to get *picky*, and there are more every day who feel the 'urge', don't the billions spent on overseas oil every day end up supporting terrorism a thousand times more? Don't the legal drugs and anti depressants make an intollerable social 'order' seem OK? And what about this new trad music movement anyway? Why are all these people turning away from popular music culture and aquiring ancient acoustic instruments? Surely they can't expect to gain anything from it!!! *big grin*
ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Dec 02 - 08:15 PM

YOUR SWORN DUTY

If your cousin is a muslim
you have to turn him in
If your mommie is a commie
you have to turn her in
If you don't believe us and Jesus
you'll burn in hell for sin
If you got crack from blacks
we have to turn you in.
If you let in aliens
we have to turn you in.
If you're deemed an enemy you're no friend to me.
I will have to turn you in
If there's reason to suspect treason
you'll have to do them in.
If a politician ignores the Constitution
To whom do you turn him in?
If there's a selected president not elected...




by dh
as always inspired by you


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: GUEST,Impeach Bush
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 11:22 AM

The first thing U.S. soldiers did in Afghanistan after the conquest was to assist the U.N. in distributing poppy seeds. Record crop of poppies and heroin on the streets this year because the Bush Cocaine Cartel expanded into opium.

In North Korea, the farmers are allowed to grow nothing BUT poppies, while GWBush gives them nuclear reactor parts (oh yes...Bush just sold them two more reactors, even though he says they're 'evil'). And the farmers are starving. Resorting to cannibalism or going north over the border to China. Because of business arrangements with the U.N. and the Bush Drug Cartel.

Drugs have been made a lucrative business for local law enforcement in the U.S. Asset, Seizure, Forfeiture. If a crime involves drugs, the arresting jurisdiction receives ten percent of the assets of the individual arrested. That's why our prisons are full of drug offenders. And now the media (fourth branch of the fascist government) is linking guns to drugs. Soon, any gun crime will result in forfeiture of property.

Also, the media is brainwashing children to think of guns as evil in and of themselves. Guns = terrorists. Drugs = guns. Drugs = terrorists = guns. CNN is staffed by Army psychological operations personnel. This stuff is all carefully-crafted and aimed at people who will be voting in ten years.

And the INS is teaching immigrants that the Second Amendment to the constitution (the right to bear arms) has certain restrictions. It is the only Amendment in the Bill of Rights with an asterisk by it in the INS educational manual. The asterisk says 'subject to certain conditins' basically. Which is hogwash.

Kids are being presented with a simplistic idea of evil (guns/drugs/terrorism), and oddly enough, those are the three businesses the Bushes are involved in. Plus oil, which would be the 'evil polluter' part of the personality, I guess. It's odd that kids are being taught to publicly revile the things the Bushes make money off of, and the Bushes are in power. 180 degree deception. I'm continually amazed the monsters get away with it, and it MUST have something to do with the psy ops people in television. Mass hypnosis?


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: GUEST,Impeach Bush
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 11:31 AM

Oh, and as it is now, U.S. military troops cannot engage in police actions on U.S. soil (Posse Comitatus act of 1878). Yet they were at Waco burning babies alive. Why? One of the dozens of Branch Davidians at Waco had a decades-old arrest for drugs on his record. So the FBI called in the troops. Literally. And they bombed and set fire to a church.

Soon, the ability to call in the military will be extended to gun crimes. But ANY involvement of troops in police actions is illegal. Remember that when you start seeing them at roadside checkpoints before long. Troops out in the open, armed, assisting cops. It is a violation of U.S. law and needs to be addressed.

Point out two things to them when they ask if they can search your car:
1) where's the warrant? The 4th amendment protects you against unreasonable search and seizure, even if a goon in army boots is standing there. They need a search warrant or need to state a probable cause. And the Supreme Court has already backed that up. Threaten the cop with personal legal action and remind him his department will cut him loose in a heartbeat. And if they try to take a hair or blood sample for the DNA database, even felons sitting in prison need to be shown a court order before submitting to that.
2) Troops on the streets assisting in police action are against the law according to the Posse Comitatus Act.

Point that stuff out to the cops. And tell them you're doing it so THEIR families don't get treated the same way farther down the road.


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 03:08 PM

Provided you can get all that out before you get a rifle-butt in the mouth?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 05:37 PM

That's why you need guns.


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 06:14 PM

We need more guns like a hungry baby needs heroin...


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Subject: RE: BS: USA PATRIOT Act (Part 2)
From: BlueJay
Date: 24 Dec 02 - 06:28 AM

Uh, Guest, You're now defending David Koresh? The brainwahing looney from Waco who held a lot of people against their will, and had lots of illegally obtained weapons? Now I'm all for gun owners rights, but I don't think this includes setting up a military base anywhere you choose.

Now I don't pretend to have knowledge of the "Big Picture" which you seem to claim. And I totally agree with many of your points. IMO, Bush's actions are that of a traitor.

But I wouldn't use Waco as evidence, if I were you. The government handled it badly, I agree. Innocent people died. But these were innocent people who had allowed themselves to be brainwashed by David Koresh. They chose their fate, and that of their children.

David Koresh was not someone fighting for my rights. He was a tinpot dictator with no regard for rights, and he needed to be taken out. Mistakes were made, and everyone wishes it had turned out differently. I think stupidity ruled the day, not conspiracy.

Like I said, I agree with you in the main. But using Waco as evidence of a major conspiracy is probably not going to win you many points, except among Ayran Nations type military folks. And who cares about them? They are already slated for eniolation, from your reports.


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