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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: mousethief Date: 20 Mar 03 - 11:16 PM I think she should have stuck to her guns, but hey it's her paycheck not mine. I did go out and buy their latest CD yesterday to show my support for Free Speech, something I hold very near and dear. Why is distance a measure of courage? If she said it in Seattle is that less courageous than if she said it in Chicago? Is it twice as courageous to say it 500 miles from DC as 1000 miles? She was among brits and wanted to let them know Americans aren't all moronic idiots. Unfortunately a great number of us went and proved her wrong immediately thereafter. I'm ashamed to be from the same PLANET as Dubya. Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Stilly River Sage Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:35 PM I think it was very wise. The question is, was it prudent? From a financial standpoint, perhaps not. I'm sorry someone managed to cow her into making an apology. That took the thunder from the statement that is going to cost her either way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Jack the Sailor Date: 20 Mar 03 - 05:57 PM Frank I still don't agree with cowardly. But I suspect that she didn't think thing through before she spoke. Idiot is harsh and certainly not accurate. I don't understand condemning someone for speaking their mind but I do agree that it wasn't wise for her to do it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: GUEST,joe Date: 20 Mar 03 - 05:30 PM hmm, if i read her apology right, she didn't actually express a different opinion than that contained in her first statement. 'embarrassing' is closer to both situations, his & hers, seeing that he is not really the president & the DC's (along w/ the rest of 'country' use far too much compression on their final mixes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Lepus Rex Date: 20 Mar 03 - 05:23 PM An ironic mullet is something you might see on an annoying hipster kid at a Yeah Yeah Yeahs concert. An unironic muller is something you might see on a 35-year-old shirtless mechanic at a Quiet Riot reunion concert. Hope that clear it up. ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Beccy Date: 20 Mar 03 - 11:24 AM Bagpuss- For once, I'm going to agree with you. Yikes. Beccy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Bagpuss Date: 20 Mar 03 - 11:14 AM k - I really don't know what to say. I can't believe you just said that! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: GUEST,k Date: 20 Mar 03 - 11:10 AM Fighting on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics: Even if you win you're still retarded. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Beccy Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:44 AM What's the difference between an "unironic mullet" and an "ironic" one? Beccy P.S. Isn't a mullet just a mullet??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Pseudolus Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:29 AM Jack, Perhaps reading the posts would be a good idea. I never called her a coward. I said the act was cowardly, there is a huge difference. No one's perfect, you don't have to be a coward to commit a cowardly act. It's my opinion that the act was cowardly. You think my opinion is mean...so be it. And by the way, I never said that courage had anything to do with her statements so I'm not sure where you were going with your last sentence. Stupidity might have, courage no. Let's face it, careers in the music business live or die with with people's opinion. To not know that the reaction to such a statement could be bad was just plain stupid, or perhaps she just doesn't care. But the reaction WAS bad. Look, I support her right to say what she felt, I support her right to say it where she did, but I also have a right to have an opinion about it....it was cowardly and stupid. Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Rick Fielding Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:11 AM "completely unironic mullets" !!!!! My laugh for today. Ya gotta have at least one, you know! Rick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Lepus Rex Date: 20 Mar 03 - 09:47 AM I'd like to point out that both Travis Tritt and Toby Keith sport completely unironic mullets. What more is there to say? ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Blues=Life Date: 20 Mar 03 - 09:30 AM Yes, I can. If you have a third choice, go for it. :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: GUEST Date: 20 Mar 03 - 09:29 AM Ah Greg F - did you get a little bent by my comment? Shucky darn man - truth hurt? Ha ha ha ha ha - |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Greg F. Date: 20 Mar 03 - 09:13 AM Logic??? Can you spell "False Dichotomy"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Blues=Life Date: 20 Mar 03 - 09:09 AM As always, I hate to introduce logic into a perfectly good emotional argument, but I just can't help myself. 1. Maines made her statement re: Bush overseas, apparently in reaction to a great deal of Anti-American sentiment. Free speech, no problem here. 2. She almost immediately apologized for her remarks, due in a large measure to the backlash from her primary audience. Therefore, she either: a) did not mean what she originally said, but let her mouth run away from her in response to her immediate environment, making her an unthinking idiot who has no true opinion of her own. b)meant her original statement, but was too cowardly to stick to her moral views once she realized how much her pocketbook was going to hurt. Idiot or Coward. Them's the choices, folks. (And don't present the good old "mispoke" argument, cuz that would be choice A). I have no problem with a celeb using their popularity to espouse their point of view, as long as they stick to it. I thought Richard Gere was extremely couragous at the Concert for New York when he spoke of responding to 9-11 with peace, not with violence. There was immediate negative feedback, which he verbally recognized, but he didn't back down. Freedom of speech has consequences, especially if you espouse an unpopular point of view to your source of income. Now back to vitriol and mud-slinging. Peace, Blues |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Greg F. Date: 20 Mar 03 - 08:53 AM Troll- Sense of humor? Fer chrissakes, you find war, death and the antics of these dickheads humorous? I don't find anything the BuShite Junta is up to amusing in any way, and its really rather pitiful and pretty revealing that you DO. Jim- the question was about 'respect' and 'respecting the office' and is quite clearly stated, above. Try actually reading it this time before framing a reply. "Guest" whichever- "a universal no opinion personage"? Jesus. WHO doesn't have a clue?- piss off. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: SarahC Date: 20 Mar 03 - 02:03 AM So much for western democracy and free speech! * You can say what you like as long as it's what the establishment wants to hear! * You can vote on a motion as long as you say yes but if we think you'll say no, then we won't bother getting a vote! * We are acting on the courage of our convictions, despite your protests, because we are right. Anyone got the distinct impression that there isn't any democracy in UK or USA either!!!!! Debate and opposing views aren't support for Saddam - they are democracy at work. It is not unpatriotic to hold an opposing view - it is the exercising of a RIGHT to hold an opposing view. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Jack the Sailor Date: 20 Mar 03 - 01:26 AM "What did he do that causes you to believe he was a good president? I'm really interested." Doug, you are not interested at all. You just want to argue. Which would be pointless since you seem to think that Bush is a good president. You are quite unlikey to be swayed by statistics or logic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: DougR Date: 20 Mar 03 - 01:17 AM Ely: you think Clinton was a "total creep, but was a good president." What did he do that causes you to believe he was a good president? I'm really interested. Kevin: Clinton happens to be the last poor president we had. That's why I criticize him. He was a great PR president, but I think history will show he was one of the worst presidents in U. S. history. He had the potential to be among the best, but he screwed up (pun not intended). Why? IMO, because he cared more about himself than he did his country. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: GUEST Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:26 PM Citizen of the World. Wow - how underwhelming. So you would be a universal no opinion personage. Not sure it does matter - and I'm not great nor wise - but I am an American and hope that my country does the best it can. And the president is my representative to the world. Whether I voted for him or not. In an elected position the majority rules. And please leave your semantical diatribes out of that statement please - When the Ditsy Twits made their comment I am certain they thought they were following popular opinion. That's what people like them do. They entertain and sell themselves. So it follows that when they, selling a product, make a mistake it can be costly. There are many ways they could have made the statement they did. They chose wrong. And they get to not be paid for it. People like me call their local radio stations and tell them not to play their music or we'll turn them off. Products should not be allowed an opinion. I've heard their music, liked some of it, but as an American trying to support the will of my country I will not support any entertainer who does not agree with my political outlook. And for the most part those same entertainer's comments border on the inane. "Don't people die in wars?" Duh - Well enough for you - have a lovely evening. Hey jimmyt - don't bait on the guy - he doesn't have a clue - |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Troll Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:20 PM Greg, The cleaners called. Your sense of humor has been cleaned and repaired and is ready for pickup. troll and not a moment too soon, I might add. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: GUEST,Ely Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:19 PM I'm from Texas, too, and I've ALWAYS been ashamed of Bush. Both Bushes. I still can't believe we ended up with him as President. I think he's a bully and I think he's out of touch. All my most right-wing, fundamentalist-religious, Texan-provincial coworkers think war is a bad idea. Yes, I think that it was cheap for her to wait until she got to England to say it, but she can still say it. I liked Clinton. I think he's a total creep but he was a good president (lots of good presidents were creeps, and lots of nice guys were probably lousy presidents--anyone who thinks they're voting for morals is clueless). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Stilly River Sage Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:15 PM No, "enough" didn't vote for him, more voted for Gore. But the Supremes got into the picture when Gore's folks made the mistake of thinking there was a hurry and they should ask to recount only a few counties in Florida. No one will ever make THAT mistake again! If they'd asked to count the entire state, the Supremes wouldn't have been in a position to vote 5:4 to appoint Bush as president. . . Oh, I guess enough people (if you look at only 9 people who count) did vote for him. Never mind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Jeri Date: 19 Mar 03 - 10:50 PM I'm not entirely sure we voted Bush in in the first place. That's quibbling though - enough people voted for him. In any case, Hitler was very, very popular in Germany. People have a tendency to want to believe in charismatic leaders and I don't think many are willing to see anything bad, let alone look for it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: jimmyt Date: 19 Mar 03 - 10:29 PM Tell me what the damn question is, Greg I thought I answered your stupid question pretty clearly, but then again, maybe not clearly enough for you! The answer is that these leaders would not be left in power in the USA as we have the ability to vote assholes like this out of office!!!!Any other stupid questions? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Greg F. Date: 19 Mar 03 - 09:35 PM Thanks for the kind words, Jim, really. No need to get huffy. But you still haven't addressed the question. Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: kendall Date: 19 Mar 03 - 07:46 PM Doug, if you republicans didn't have Clinton to keep dragging out, would you be able to defend Bush at all? Also, who put Saddam in charge? It sure as hell wasn't Clinton. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: jimmyt Date: 19 Mar 03 - 07:06 PM Greg, I hope you have a nice day. I will not continue trying to explain or defend my opinions in this thread. THe amazing thing to me is that people like you who profess to be so all knowing and liberally enlightened, are the least tolerant people about any opinions different from theirs. Again. Good luck to you, Have a wonderful life, and I hope one day you can find some happiness. Sorry if that doesn't sound like a conservative in your mind, but therein lies the paradox |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Stilly River Sage Date: 19 Mar 03 - 06:53 PM Yes, Beccy, that's exactly what I mean. The arguments make just as much sense. (But I really do hate that Greenwood song) Your partisian argument is more profuse on this thread, but no more convincing than anyone else's. It's all politics, and you're not going to change anyone's mind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Greg F. Date: 19 Mar 03 - 06:42 PM Greg, not to sidestep your question... But you just did..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: jimmyt Date: 19 Mar 03 - 06:32 PM Greg, not to sidestep your question the answer is that If we had a leader with those propensities as you mentioned in Hitler and Stalin, we would excersize our right to VOTE HIM OUT OF OFFICE!!! Of course you, being a citizen of the world, may not know about our silly old antiquated democracy here in the USA. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Bobert Date: 19 Mar 03 - 06:22 PM Well danged! I hope someone has moved the Bill of Rights into a bomb proof shelter. Now it looks like if you are a performer you can't say a danged thing that isn't part of the company line? Hmmmmmm, didn't we go thru this about 50 years ago? This is less about repsect for the presidency than our 1st Ammendment rights. Man, wherre's ol' Tom Jefferson when we need him the most. Seems like there are a lot of folks who could use a remedial course in democracy in the joint these days. Yep, J the S, we certainly aren't short in hypocricy these days. All the loud mouths during the 90's want everyone who doesn't want the US to use military solutions as it centerpiece of its foriegn policy to just, ahhhh, shut up! Hmmmmm? Looking more and more like Osaom can declare victory! Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Greg F. Date: 19 Mar 03 - 06:11 PM Jesus, Troll, don't be such an unsufferable prig. We've 'duelled' before, and I know you're not an idiot. Why act like one? If you've never seen me "criticize any country but America and no President but Bush?" you either haven't been looking or you really need to get yourself to an ophthalmologist while there may still be a chance to save what's left of your eyesight. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Beccy Date: 19 Mar 03 - 05:52 PM JTS- I actually own the Dixie Chicks' "Wide Open Spaces" and a compilation with several of Greenwood's songs on them. So, I guess the answer is yes- I have heard their stuff. What's your point? Beccy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Jack the Sailor Date: 19 Mar 03 - 05:11 PM Beccy - PM Date: 19 Mar 03 - 04:33 PM SRS- So Maine has intellect and edge but Greenwood has kneejerk patriotism, eh? Why? Because you agree with her but disagree with him? Beccy HAHA have you HEARD their music? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Troll Date: 19 Mar 03 - 05:08 PM Greg, if you are a "citizen of the world" as you claim, why is it that I never see you criticize any country but America and no President but Bush? I would think that with the whole world as your bailiwick you would be able to find some one or someplace else on whom to vent your spleen. If you don't mind, I'd like to ask a few questions about this "world citizenship" thing. Who issues your drivers license and what entity collects your taxes: I assume that you do pay taxes. Do you use a passport when you travel or do you just have ID that all countries accept? Who issues that ID? And what currency do you use to pay for your "world citizen" taxes etc. Or are they all free? Please answer in detail. I'm sure that there are many Mudcatters who would take advantage of this if they only knew how. troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Jack the Sailor Date: 19 Mar 03 - 05:05 PM My point is calling her "unpatriotic" for criticizing the president is stupid and hypocritical. Calling her a coward is just mean and uncalled for. Doug I was complaining about people who are smug while they are stupidly contridicting themselves. I don't think I was being smug or hypocritical. I equally defend your right to say stupid things about Clinton as I defends Maines' right to stupidly (as it turned out) criticize Bush. Speaking of saying dumb things about Clinton. Clinton & Saddam "And I, for one, would be interested in your elaborating on your remarks about how Mr. Clinton was dealing with Saddam. It seems to me he did his best to avoid dealing with him the eight years he was in office. If he had, perhaps we wouldn't be facing the situation we are now." Perhaps if the people weren't so distracted by thousands of "conservatives yelling "wag the dog" then the country might have had the political will to deal with Saddam in 1998. Yes people do have the right to boycott the Dixie chicks. Apparantly they also have the right to call them cowards. That doesn't mean they are right. Your opinion Frank, coward is a dastardly word. I'm not surprised at the reaction. I would have expected the same self righteous prigs that so gleefully attacked Clinton to attack her for doing the same to their guy. She probably gave her countrymen more credit than than. I certainly am willing to stand by my contention that saying those things in England is no less cowardly than in the USA, which you well know was the point of my "sarcastic" comment. You Frank, also know damned well that courage didn't enter into her decision one way or the other, especially if, as you allege, she didn't think beore she spoke. The knife was pointed in the correct direction. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Pseudolus Date: 19 Mar 03 - 04:36 PM Touche Beccy...... :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Beccy Date: 19 Mar 03 - 04:33 PM SRS- So Maine has intellect and edge but Greenwood has kneejerk patriotism, eh? Why? Because you agree with her but disagree with him? Beccy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: GUEST Date: 19 Mar 03 - 04:19 PM So... lemme see, the Dixie Chicks and other musicians like to get a little mouthy and argumentative (even about things they don't actually know a lot about)? MUSICIANS!??? With each other??? I'm SHOCKED! ;~) ~S~ (whowillbecookieless for a bit) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: GUEST Date: 19 Mar 03 - 04:00 PM While we're on the subject of selective trashing of presidents, how come Clinton wasn't fit to be Commander in Chief because he got a draft deferment, whereas Bush is a worthy holder of the office though was AWOL for a year from the National Guard in time of war? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Greg F. Date: 19 Mar 03 - 03:53 PM I don't 'belong' to any country, oh great and powerful anonymous one, (whichever one you happen to be)- I'm a citizen of the world. Not that it does, or should, make any difference. Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Stilly River Sage Date: 19 Mar 03 - 03:50 PM We live in a global village. Anything anyone says anywhere can be picked up and spread around the world in a nanosecond. It doesn't matter who Maines addressed her thoughts to. Now that the Dixie Chicks are not on the radio so much, we probably have to suffer through zillions of plays of Greenwood's sappy American Hero song. Now that one I'll turn off every time. Much better to have Maine's edge and intellect than Greenwood's kneejerk patriotism. I'm not planning to have the television on much during Dubya's War. I find all of the hashed and rehashed news that comes across during war causes a depression that I'd just as soon avoid. I certainly understand the old line "Wake me when the war's over," though that isn't my point. We'll all understand full-well what is going on without absorbing every ounce of coverage the networks can wring out of it. I'll wait quietly, and start reading closely again when the international charges of war crimes are filed against George W. Bush. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: GUEST Date: 19 Mar 03 - 03:47 PM What country do you belong to Greg F.? I honestly don't know - |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Greg F. Date: 19 Mar 03 - 03:45 PM Care to respond to my question, Jim? or just keep repeating "God Bless America"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: jimmyt Date: 19 Mar 03 - 02:47 PM Greg, I didn't say you have to agree, after all it is still a free country, but he is in fact your Resident (read President) if you are a citizen. But again, in such a civilized place as America, you are pretty free to voice your opinion. Like to see you do that in Iraq! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: JohnnyBeezer Date: 19 Mar 03 - 02:30 PM Isn't this vilification of Bush and Tricky Dicky...and Reagan for that matter, more a reflection of your electorate's psyche than anything else. You sometimes get what you deserve! Johnny N |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Greg F. Date: 19 Mar 03 - 02:27 PM He may be YOUR Resident, Jim, but he sure as hell ain't mine. I remember this same crapola about Tricky Dick Nixon, even after it became abundantly clear that he belonged in a Federal penitentiary. Let me get this right: if a turd were president, we should still respect it because of the office it holds and no matter what it does while in that office? I suppose Stalin and Hitler and Pol Pot, for example, then deserve our 'respect', because they were all heads of state? I don't think so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: JohnnyBeezer Date: 19 Mar 03 - 02:27 PM Folks All this too shall pass. Johnny N |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Pseudolus Date: 19 Mar 03 - 02:23 PM That's a pretty smartass answer Jack but I'll respond anyway. It's not ME that needs to look it up, they're the ones that are apologizing now because somehow they were surprised by the reaction that the statement got! How could that be? Perhaps your sarcastic dagger is pointed in the wrong direction huh? Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: GUEST Date: 19 Mar 03 - 02:21 PM My guess is that she is not only NOT a hero (never fecking was) but probably a has been in the entertainment industry. Clinton Hammond is correct - get naked and make me smile. Otherwise STFU - - And as far as the assertion above about the "shameless" amount of money made on 9/11 - guess you folkies have never made a dime off of tragedy? Tritt and Keith have made numerous USO tours to the troops - and the USO does not pay a great deal - if anything. What have the Ditsy Clits done? Nada - zip - zilch - |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: DougR Date: 19 Mar 03 - 02:15 PM Jack the Sailor: and there is nothing smug or hypocritical about your statement about conservatives, right? And I, for one, would be interested in your elaborating on your remarks about how Mr. Clinton was dealing with Saddam. It seems to me he did his best to avoid dealing with him the eight years he was in office. If he had, perhaps we wouldn't be facing the situation we are now. As to the Dixie Chicken, she obviously had a right to say what she said. The people in American have a right to treat her disrespect any way they choose. They can boycott their performances if they don't like what she said, or those who applaud her can buy more tickets. Same for there CDs. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: jimmyt Date: 19 Mar 03 - 02:13 PM I think it is perfectly in Mr Maines' Right to say what she said. I also see absolutely nothing wrong with those who disagree with her and think it was a cheap shot to respond with their wallets so that she, and all other " FOreign affairs Geniuses" who feel that they need to make a statement will realize that their actions and words can have consequences. I remember cringing when people and the media took cheap shots at the Clintons. I happen to be a republican but I think it is wrong to show a lack of respect for our president, and saying things about his daughter is just plain mean. Having said that, I didn't vote for him, but he was my president, and he deserved my respect. I think the same about President Bush. He is my president and should be given the respect that that office deserves. As far as this Dixie Chick goes, well her quick apology when she realized the ramifications of her verbal indescretion pretty much moves her out of the realm of "hero", doesn't it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Jack the Sailor Date: 19 Mar 03 - 02:09 PM Pseudolus, There is a concept you should become familiar with, Telecommunications. I'm sure the Dixie chicks are familiar with it. Look it up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: kendall Date: 19 Mar 03 - 02:03 PM My loyalty is to the USA. Not "resident" Bush. I'm not ashamed he is a Texan, I'm ashamed he is an American! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Wesley S Date: 19 Mar 03 - 01:46 PM My goodness - are we still going on about this ? It seems like a tempest in a "D" cup if you ask me. Isn't there anything else more important to worry about ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Pseudolus Date: 19 Mar 03 - 01:22 PM Bagpuss, I disagree. The fact that she used the venue and audience that she did WAS cowardly, the fact that she didn't think it would get back to the US was just stupid! Greg, I believe it's cowardly because her attack was made from London and the person she was attacking was an ocean away. I never said anything about it being strictly an American issue nor was I excluding the UK. Somehow you concluded that from my remarks. Steve, My only point about celebs is that yes, I totally agree they have the right to their opinion AND they have a right to express it in the media, however, their opinions have much more potential to have an impact on a soldier that hears it than if I were to make a statement to the media. If I WERE a celeb, I would be careful not to let that happen, but again, that's just how I would handle it....doesn't make it right or wrong, it's just me. By the way, your paragraph on War is Evil? I couldn't agree with you more! Take Care, Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Clinton Hammond Date: 19 Mar 03 - 12:38 PM Since when has it mattered a tinkers cuss, the opinions of celebrities??? More importantly, WHY should it matter?? -I- don't expect celebs to THINK at all... I expect them to sing, dance act, and look really great naked... that's their job... I'll leave thinking to the people so qualified... just as soon as I find any... "Do you really think that it was MEANINGLESS that the President of the United States perjured himself, sexually harassed scores of women, diddled an intern, and was involved in illegal land deals? " Has there ver been an american president who didn't bust a few laws??? I'd be very surprised if there was... I also wouldn't care that he did... He's the American President... It goes with the teritory... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 19 Mar 03 - 12:30 PM FROM: The BS News Service DATE: March 19, 2003 The Democratic Party has just announced that it will not field a candidate for President in 2004. Since it is in the nature of a political campaign to attempt to point out the faults and failings of one's opponent and, since a majority of the U.S. population has decided that George W. Bush is infallible and criticism of him is totally un-patriotic, the Democrats have decided that running a candidate against him would be an un-American activity. In related news, the House of Representatives will vote later today on a bill that aims to repeal that silly part of The U.S. Constitution that calls for an elected Executive. If passed, as anticipated, Congress is expected to immediately proclaim Mr. Bush King for life. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Steve Parkes Date: 19 Mar 03 - 12:21 PM Pseudolus ... just skip back a few posts while I take tongue out of my cheek for a moment ... My point was that celebs get on the telly or the radio briefly once in a while (other than entertainment appearances) to spout off; DJs, anchor (wo)men, presenters and the rest have entire regular programs to voice their opinions: it's not a recipé for a balanced debate. War is evil: I don't think there are many that would dispute that. In this case, it may the least of several alternative evils; I don't know, maybe GB & TB know something I don't. Whatever; our people -- UK and US -- are going into a dangererous situation not of their making, and I can't withhold my support for them, whatever I think about the situation, its causes and its creators. Steve PS. And who was it said "if you sit on the fence you get splinters in your arse"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Jack the Sailor Date: 19 Mar 03 - 12:20 PM The names I heard the Republicans called Hillary and the jokes they made about her and her husband were not differences in Policy. It is not surprizing that Tritt and Keith would speak out in this way. Both have shamelessly boosted their careers by dwelling on and recording about 9/11. For them, the more war and controversy the better their careers. If anyone is a coward it is those to for kicking Natalie when she was down and after she had apologized. There's nothing Cowardly about making a statement in London. Its not as if it was a secret. I'm sure she realized that the word would get back to America. So what if she had said it in Nashville? or Austin? Do you think the news coverage would have been less? Do you think that people in Europe aren't told what happens here? Do you think they are not shaking their heads in bewilderment at the monumental childish of "Freedom Fries"? If it is unpatriotic to disrespect the office of the president, Then it is unpatriotic. No excuses! No "but Clinton Did it himself", No "at time of crisis", The president is always dealing with a crisis. While Clinton was trying to deal with Saddam, Republicans were doing their best to distract him so that he could fail and they'd have more amunition for the next election. But now it isn't ok to do the same to Bush. What a steaming pile of bullshit! What astounds me his how some people who call themselves "conservatives" can say such stupid, hyppocritical things and still be smug. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Beccy Date: 19 Mar 03 - 12:01 PM Bagpuss- I would like to politely disagree with you. Her immediate feedback was from an audience that had no part in the American electoral system and therefore had no ability to affect the office of the Presidency of the United States of America. Surely, you agree that had she said that in front of an American audience, she may at least have had a little less immediate support. Beccy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Greg F. Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:54 AM I was not asleep or comatose during Clinton's campaign and subsequent Presidency... All I can say is that the questions you pose, and the manner in which you pose them, would seem to belie this assertion. Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Bagpuss Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:50 AM Surely in terms of cowardice it doesn't matter what the venue and audience was, since it was reported widely in the US - so in effect they were the audience too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Beccy Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:48 AM Greg- I was not asleep or comatose during Clinton's campaign and subsequent Presidency. I paid attention to the papers and radio and television and magazine news. You specifically mentioned healthcare reform as one of the subjects on which President and Mrs. Clinton were "attacked". For starters, they were both open to criticism on the subject because she chaired the closed-door committee looking into the feasibility of nationalizing healthcare. That makes her a target for vociferous criticism to those who vehemently disagree with the concept of nationalized healthcare. That she was appointed by her husband, the President, also leaves her open to criticism. She was not appointed to leading some reading intiative. She was appointed to leading an initiative that would have affected a HUGE portion of our economy. That means she can be criticized- and yes, verbal criticism CAN get loud and ugly. Hey- that's our system. Do you call those PERSONAL attacks? Or are you referring to the media laughing at Clinton's affinity for cheeseburgers and fries? To what PERSONAL attacks do you refer? Do you refer to his "I-did-not-have-a" relationship with Ms. Lewinsky? He perjured himself in regards to that in a case that was brought against him by a woman who he sexually harassed. Which part of the criticism he invited by doing that was PERSONAL? I could continue, but until you tell me specifically to what you refer, I shall digress. Beccy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Greg F. Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:47 AM ...cowardly to pick the venue and audience that she did... Is that because Britain and Blair have no involvement with the Bushite agenda in Iraq, or because what's going on there and will be going on there impacts only the United States and not the rest of the world? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: beadie Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:47 AM The question that comes to mind (and, I suspect, was part of the issue that caused Ms. Maines to make her statement), is, "if we are not to be permitted to dissent, or to live freely within the rest of the expressed protections of the Constitution, then what the HELL are the American Troops doing in harm's way? What are they fighting for, if not the freedom to criticize, challenge, and participate in our own government? If these freedoms are not part of the equation, then the guy who sent them off to fight and die is needlessly risking a lot more than his political future . . . and that shows a lack of support for their well-being." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Pseudolus Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:36 AM Greg, I think you've missed Beccy's point. She wasn't saying that it was wrong to criticize the president, she said that it was cowardly to pick the venue and audience that she did...I happen to agree. Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Greg F. Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:30 AM Beccy, why don't you check out those newspaper archives and then get back to me. As I said above, I'm referencing virtually continuous PERSONAL attacks( not only on Clinton himself, but his family and associates as well), most of them regarding entirely bogus accusations- not differences of "policy". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Beccy Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:20 AM Okay, Bagpuss. I shall rephrase... ...in as much as most Londoners are not members of the American electorate... Better? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Bagpuss Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:19 AM Well if you will walk straight into them... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Beccy Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:15 AM Gee- that's a really clever one, Bagpuss. I haven't heard that before. :-) Beccy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Bagpuss Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:13 AM I thought most Americans didn't have any part in getting Bush elected.... ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Beccy Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:10 AM Graham, I mean "not a part of" in as much as most Londoners did not have any part in getting Bush elected. I did not mean it to be a slight to the British involvement in the conflict. I should have made that more clear. Beccy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Beccy Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:07 AM Greg, Do I take you to mean that Clinton was blameless in bringing that criticism onto himself? Do you really think that it was MEANINGLESS that the President of the United States perjured himself, sexually harassed scores of women, diddled an intern, and was involved in illegal land deals? Had that been Bush, would you have been so blithe? As to the other things, nationalizing healthcare, midnight basketball, et al... those were differences in policy. I've been very clear that I think policy is ALWAYS fair game to criticize- on BOTH sides of the aisle. Beccy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Grab Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:07 AM Beccy, Britain is just as much in this as the US is, bcos Tony Blair is following GWB's lead. "Not part of it" - I don't think so. As far as Mr. Tritt is concerned, I reckon the last thing the troops needs is some asshole entertainer saying about how glad he is all these guys are being sent over to be shot at, when the closest the entertainer's getting to the Middle East is Miami. I know how much I'd appreciate that. Graham. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Rick Fielding Date: 19 Mar 03 - 10:58 AM My GAWD! Travis Tritt is as inarticulate and chauvinistic as Dubya himself! BOYCOTT THE DIXIE CHICKS (until they stop using such slick production values, and actually get a few wrinkles!) Rick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Greg F. Date: 19 Mar 03 - 10:54 AM Clinton was being trashed for immoral personal behavior in a time of relative peace You'd better go back and re-read the newspapers for those eight years, Beccy. You obviously missed quite a lot, or your're experiencing selective memory loss. Any of the major dailies have archives you can access on-line. Long before the Blow Job Heard Round The World captured the neo-con imagination as a holy crusade, Clinton, and his wife, and his children, and his associates were PERSONALLY trashed on a daily basis for anything and everything they could think of or invent, true, falseor indifferent - from Whitewater to health care proposals to Vietnam, to accusations of murder, to what he did in college, etc. etc.- meaningless, venal garbage, most of it. And now they whine when Bush & his junta are criticised for something substantive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Beccy Date: 19 Mar 03 - 10:31 AM Give me a break, you know very well that's not what I said. I didn't say it was wrong for her to criticize Bush- I said I thought it was COWARDLY to do so from an overseas stage to an audience that was NOT part of what she was criticizing. She can come back here and criticize Bush all she wants and I will support her right to do so. I may disagree with her, but I won't think she's a gutless wonder for doing so. Additionally, her remark did not point out policy differences she had, it was simply a personal attack ("Just so you know, we're ashamed that the President is from Texas...") Beccy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Bagpuss Date: 19 Mar 03 - 10:26 AM I see - create some global unrest, because then people think it is wrong to criticise you... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Beccy Date: 19 Mar 03 - 10:23 AM Greg- The main (forgive the pun) difference between "trashing" the President when it was Clinton and "trashing" the President now is pretty obvious. Clinton was being trashed for immoral personal behavior in a time of relative peace. Maine trashed Bush from an overseas location during a time of global unrest. She did not have the courage to make her statement from, oh- say, Lubbock or Nashville... Had she the spine and courage of her convictions to make a pronouncement like the one she did Stateside, I'd be much less irritated with her than I am now. For now, I think Natalie Maine is a wuss or a dunderhead or both. If she's really sorry she should forget the media apology and do some USO shows. That'd be proof that she not only feels bad about her comments, but wants to make amends. Beccy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: GUEST Date: 19 Mar 03 - 10:03 AM AND - this being a free society we have the right to speak what we believe in response to what anyone else says. And we vote with our dollars. Just my opinion but I believe that the support faction in the USA has just outvoted the peace at any price groups. By a significant margin - Must be the Bubba NASCAR folks again - and what the hell do they know. Idiots. All they've ever done is fight for their country in large numbers. Stupid unschooled jerks - how dare they oppose those who know better - |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Pseudolus Date: 19 Mar 03 - 09:59 AM Steve, The difference between a celebrity making the statement and let's say ME making a statement is that the celebrity has direct access to the media. Nobody cares what I say, nor will they hear it. However, I do agree that they have the right to state their opinion. If it were me, I'd have to think it through to see what effect it might have on our troops before I said it.....but that's me..... Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Kim C Date: 19 Mar 03 - 09:50 AM Steve, I believe that was Voltaire. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Greg F. Date: 19 Mar 03 - 09:05 AM Unfortunately, its not true. But it certainly is appropriate.br> CLICK HERE But you have to love the right-wing cry-babies (cry-bubbas?) who trashed Clinton, his entire family, and anyone he came in contact with for eight years and now whine, piss and moan about this. They're just not smart enough to see that they're canting hypocrites. Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Bagpuss Date: 19 Mar 03 - 08:42 AM It's a spoof - I dont have the address for the site, as the text was sent to me in an email, but it should be easy to find. Bagpuss |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Jeri Date: 19 Mar 03 - 08:40 AM Jed, it's from a site called "Specious Report." Bagpuss, do you have a URL? Yeah. It seems to me it's OK to rag on a president as long as you don't like him. It's only a matter of "being disrespectful to the office of" if he's not your guy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: JedMarum Date: 19 Mar 03 - 08:33 AM Did she really say this? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: allanwill Date: 19 Mar 03 - 08:25 AM I think I like Natalie Maines. Allan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Steve Parkes Date: 19 Mar 03 - 05:24 AM Well, that's what I said! Steve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Bagpuss Date: 19 Mar 03 - 05:08 AM Just for fun.... From Specious Report: Apology from Natalie Maines of Dixie Chicks As a concerned American citizen, I apologize to President Bush because my remark was disrespectful. I now realize that whoever holds that office should be treated with the utmost respect. I hope everyone understands, I'm just a young girl who grew up in Texas. As far back as I can remember, I heard people say they were ashamed of President Clinton. I saw bumper stickers calling him everything from a pothead to a murderer. I heard people on the radio and tv like Rush Limbaugh, Pat Robertson, Newt Gingrich and Trent Lott bad mouthing the President and ridiculing his wife and daughter at every opportunity. I heard LOTS of people disrespecting the President. So I guess I just assumed it was acceptable behavior. But now, thanks to the thousands of angry people who want radio stations to boycott our music because criticizing the President is unpatriotic, I realize it's wrong to have a liberal opinion if you're a country music artist. I guess I should have thought about that before deciding to play music that attracts hypocritical red necks. I also realize now that I'm supposed to just sing and look cute so our fans won't have anything to upset them while they're cheating on their wives or getting in drunken bar fights or driving around in their pickup trucks shooting highway signs and small animals. And most important of all, I realize that it's wrong for a celebrity to voice a political opinion, unless they're Charlie Daniels, Clint Black, Merle Haggard, Barbara Mandrell, Loretta Lynn, Ricky Skaggs, Travis Tritt, Hank Williams Jr, Amy Grant, Larry Gatlin, Crystal Gayle, Reba McEntire, Lee Greenwood, Lorrie Morgan, Anita Bryant, Mike Oldfield, Ted Nugent, Wayne Newton, Dick Clark, Jay Leno, Drew Carey, Dixie Carter, Victoria Jackson, Charleton Heston, Fred Thompson, Ben Stein, Bruce Willis, Kevin Costner, Arnold Schwartzenegger, Bo Derek, Rick Schroeder, George Will, Pat Buchanan, Bill O'Reilly, Joe Rogan, Delta Burke, Robert Conrad or Jesse Ventura. God Bless America, Natalie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: Steve Parkes Date: 19 Mar 03 - 03:31 AM You can support your troops without supporting the war or the president (or in my case the prime minister). And how is that celebrities are less entitled to the same democratic rights as everyone else? Those who put them down for making political statements in the media are doing exactly the same thing, but believe they are entitled when others are not. Who said "I don't agree with a word you say, but i'll defend to the death your right to say it"? I de believe it was a Fernchman! Steve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: JudyR Date: 19 Mar 03 - 03:25 AM How do I get this moved to the BS Forum??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: GUEST,JudyR Date: 19 Mar 03 - 02:16 AM I'm not a guest. Guess I better re-register. Everytime I clean out my Temp. Files, this happens. |
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Subject: BS: Stars mouth off re Dixie Chicks From: GUEST,JudyR Date: 19 Mar 03 - 02:14 AM Just saw these today on another board -- where they're using the statements as an excuse to support their patriotism. I like the line I heard James Carville used today on "Crossfire" about the "Patriot Thought Police." # # # # # Singer Travis Tritt Says Celebs Should Support Troops Tuesday, March 18, 2003 HIRAM, Ga.; Singer Travis Tritt blasted fellow country singers the Dixie Chicks for criticizing President Bush, and said it's time for celebrities to start supporting the military troops in Iraq. "The bottom line is ... what's going to happen is going to happen. To be a good American — regardless of which side you're on — you have to get behind President Bush. More important, you have to get behind the troops," the singer said recently. Tritt also had some stern words for Dixie Chicks leader Natalie Maines, who during a recent concert in London said, "Just so you know, we're ashamed the president of the United States is from Texas." "I think the comments were made primarily because it was in front of an audience that agreed with them," Tritt told Fox News on Tuesday. "But I think if you make those statements over there versus over here it is sort of cowardly and I think it was a cheap shot." The Grammy-winning Dixie Chicks have repeatedly apologized for the statement, but Tritt said he has another idea for how they could make up for the anti-Bush statement. "If the Dixie Chicks really wanted to do something to prove just how sorry they are about those statements, they would volunteer to go and perform at some military base," suggested Tritt. Several radio stations in the nation have decided to boycott the Chicks, whose album Home recently won a Grammy. After more than 250 listeners called Friday to complain about Maines' comments, WTDR-FM in Talladega, Ala., dropped the Dixie Chicks. "We've had a huge listener reaction and movement against the statements," said Paul Williams of KPLX-FM in Dallas-Fort Worth, the nation's fifth-largest radio market. Many celebrities, such as Martin Sheen and Susan Sarandon, have spoken out against the impending war with Iraq. Tritt says hearing celebs criticize military action hurts soldiers' morale when they are putting their lives on the line for the United States "The last thing in the world that those people need to hear is every time they turn on the television or every time they turn on the radio is some half-cocked entertainer coming off and making statements against the actions that they're over doing under the direction of our commander-in-chief," Tritt said. As for people who have strong feelings about a celebrity's remarks, Tritt has a suggestion for how Americans can make their voices heard. "The best way to get an entertainer's attention is to hit them in their pocketbooks," he said. The Associated Press contributed to this report. NEWS - Toby Keith Says Maines 'Has A Big Mouth' 03/17/2003 (3/17/03, 4 p.m. ET) -- Toby Keith told a room full of reporters before his Oklahoma City concert on Friday night (March 14) that Dixie Chick Natalie Maines has "got a big mouth." Keith, who was responding to a question about Maines's recent negative comments about President Bush in London, said, "She's come after me before. She's got a big mouth." Maines did make some negative comments about Keith shortly after the release of his song "Courtesy Of The Red, White & Blue," which was Number One on Billboard's Hot Country Singles & Tracks chart for several weeks. "Don't get me started," Maines told the Los Angeles Daily News back in August 2002 about Keith's song. "I hate it. It's ignorant and it makes country music sound ignorant. It targets an entire culture--and not just the bad people who did bad things. You've got to have some tact. Anybody can write, 'We'll put a boot in your ass.' But a lot of people agree with it." The Chicks' latest single, "Travelin' Soldier," sits at Number One this week on Billboard's Hot Country Singles & Tracks chart. -- Nancy Brooks, Nashville # # # # # |
