|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: NicoleC Date: 25 Apr 03 - 10:14 PM Because, SRS, it's the old double standard. A woman who displays her feminity without shame must be a worthless whore. Oh sure, guys WANT some women to do it in nudie mags, but they won't respect them. Ergo, female musicians who pose nude must not be worthy of respect as musicians. Of course it's a ridiculous publicity stunt. That's how famous musicians usually get famous and particulary how they STAY famous. It'd be a nice world if musicians were solely judged on their musicianship and artistic merit and heartfelt desire, but it ain't so. You're right, Spartacus, it's a choice. They choose to market themselves in the most feasible way given their physical assets, and it worked. They wanted to make a living as musicians, and guess what? They're making a living as musicians... and if they hadn't done it, they'd still be most the popular weekend act in town and nothing else. Either way, they'd like music as much. Personally, I think the photo is tastefully done and (inadvertantly?) symbolic. They are at risk because they bared their political thoughts -- and it didn't jive with the country music scene. What's a little no-really-revealing skin after that? |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: GUEST Date: 25 Apr 03 - 10:00 PM Mister McGrath of Harlow. She said, quote "Just so you know, we're ashamed the president of the United States is from Texas" Try this "Just so you know I am ashamed Mr McGrath is English" said by an Enlish person about you here in the USA. Either one is ashamed that Englishness is one of Mr McGs qualities OR one is ashamed that Mr McG is one of Englands qualities, either way is really stinks! If that is not offensive I don't know what is. |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Apr 03 - 09:37 PM That's an awfully big claim you're making, that these women "don't have a love for music," when they've been working at it for quite a while on the local scene and were just what you describe, "working musicians." I would think that posing nude isn't the way to make sure that "no one dislikes them." There are a lot of folks down here in their old stomping grounds who would scruple to criticise the nudity. SRS |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: GUEST Date: 25 Apr 03 - 09:29 PM I saw only one high paid media whore on the Diane Sawyer interview of the Dixie Chicks. She wasn't a musician. |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Spartacus Date: 25 Apr 03 - 09:01 PM I hate to sound vain...but I don't think anyone can argue with my point. To Stilly River Stage, I must point out that the pictures you're seeing on the cover of "Entertainment weekly" are not an honest representation of how the Dixie Chicks look. They are obviously airbrushed and stretched. Most magazine covers are. I don't even really have a problem with the fact that the picture is airbrushed. It's the IDEA that bugs me. These women don't have a love for music, and for making music. They have a love for being loved. They would do anything to make sure that no one dislikes them. THAT makes them people that I can't respect. I'll tell you something honest. I would love to get famous for playing music. Not famous in a Madonna way, but just enough to call it my job. My ideal of famous is to be like Guy Clark, Steve Earle, Townes Van Zandt, Martin Sexton, etc. The point of spending your life making music and getting people to listen to your art is NOT getting famous. It's making music because you love to make it. Money and fame are a by-product. If you can achieve enough fame to have a public voice, I can only hope that anyone who does will have the strength and intelligence to promote the veiws they stand behind without being a victim to big company politics. Make your art because you believe in your art. I know a lot of working musicians who have a vision for making a particular kind of music, and who won't change for anyone. I also know people who would jump on any bandwagon that came by if it would make them money. You decide which person you want to be. Every time I play a show, I vocally support the people who keep trying to make the music they want to make for the right reasons.... Ok...that's probably enough... sorry to go on so long. I just feel very strongly about these kind of things.... -Spartacus |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Apr 03 - 08:26 PM Nope, there isn't, McGrath. But the "look" was associated almost exclusively with the hard core feminists for a while, and assumptions were made about your politics if you didn't bother to shave your legs or your pits. A lot of these things have relaxed over the years. Thank goodness! SRS |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 Apr 03 - 08:21 PM And what is this so significant difference between saying you're ashamed of someone and that you're embarassed at him? I'd have thought that "I'm ashamed to be seen with you" means the same as "I'm embarrassed to be seen with you". (And on a different point - there's nothing wrong or "unreal" with women who are unkempt with hairy armpits. Or any other sort.) |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: GUEST Date: 25 Apr 03 - 07:32 PM "Such as saying that a man like Bush is an embarrassment? Would pointing out that John Paul II is a Catholic fall into the same category of things best left unsaid? " If that was all she said then there would have been no fuss - gross nuttin. She said 'she was ashamed that G W Bush the President of the US is from the state of Texas' Read the original thread if you want the get the rest of the detail. |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Don Firth Date: 25 Apr 03 - 06:32 PM At the risked of being deemed serious, I posted some comments on another thread. So I don't use up bandspace by posting it twice, you can catch it HERE. Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Peter T. Date: 25 Apr 03 - 06:26 PM I apologise, but will not stoop to the unclothed fury of nakedness as exemplified by those bastionettes of freedom, Les Chiques Dixies. yours, Peter T. |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Apr 03 - 05:46 PM Hey, Spartacus, this feminist likes Dolly Parton just fine. She can dress the way she wants, say what she wants, and do what she wants. She's one smart businesswoman and writes some nice songs. I don't know a lot of her music, I'm on the barest periphery of her admirers, so I can't give you much more detail than this. Feminism is no longer illustrated exclusively by unkempt women with hairy armpits and no cosmetics. This is thread drift of a sort, but it's also germane, in that it's just one more reason why the Dixie Chicks are entitled to say what they want or pose if they want--because they can. They're smart businesswomen, and can make their choices based on income or altruism or politics. They're also real women with real bodies, and considering that they have had babies, they're looking pretty darned good. That really takes the starch out of you! I don't see anything in that photo to be ashamed of or that needs airbrushing. SRS |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Kim C Date: 25 Apr 03 - 05:39 PM so if I show the violin tattoo on my ass, will I sell some records? |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: TIA Date: 25 Apr 03 - 05:26 PM Peter T. it was very disrespectful of you to call that moron dopey. Apologize! |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Rick Fielding Date: 25 Apr 03 - 05:19 PM Spartacus. It merits a thread because it was a FUCKING JOKE!! The kind of much-needed occasional light hearted "nuthin" during a period when Mudcat has been ohhhhh so serious. My intial post was: "Good Grief! So THIS is why my favourite music has remained so unpopular all these years? Oh, if only Bill Monroe or Ralph Stanley had shown a little skin. Ricky Scaggs? If that big (and I mean BIG) ol' country boy ain't got a lot to love (looks like the 'pickin' porker's runnin' about 275 these days) then I'm no judge of horse flesh. The other big news from the 'Chicks' this morning is that "They DON'T apologize after all"!! Yup, the heat wasn't as bad as they thought it would be, so Natalie's back to her 'Dubya dissin' position. Whahoo! Ride 'em gal!" Not a very serious intro, right? Perhaps we need a few more Iraq threads, or even one more 'real' Bluegrass thread to fill up with inaccurate information. By the way, Madonna plays guitar (knows all her up the neck barre chords) and bass. It's pretty common knowledge that she was in several rock bands. But sadly.....even after MY rant, I have to say....The Chicks leave me cold, naked or in rhinestones! On the other hand, it would have been hilarious if the PETA ads HAD gotten out, ha ha! Cheers Rick |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Little Hawk Date: 25 Apr 03 - 04:14 PM Spartacus, I pretty much agree with you on this one. It's crass marketing of a very predictable sort that the Dixie Chicks have done with that magazine cover. Given the fact that that's what pop singers do, though, it's a clever piece of crass marketing...and will probably sell lots of records. I agree if you want to recognize a real representative of protest in music...listen to Ani DiFranco...or Joan Baez...or Joni Mitchell ("sex sells everything...and sex kills"). Meaningful protest must be aimed at the very marketing game itself or it is missing the boat. - LH |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 Apr 03 - 04:14 PM "Cotton candy" - we call it "candy floss". Mix a little bit of sugar with a lot of empty air. A great way to make a little go a long way. |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Kim C Date: 25 Apr 03 - 04:13 PM I think that pretty well sums it up! |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Peter T. Date: 25 Apr 03 - 03:42 PM Of course it merits a thread. We are talking about naked women making tattood statements in defence of their right to make stupid statements about a dopy president. It is part of the great Barnum and Bailey media circus: get some cotton candy and get a seat near the clown section. yours, Peter T. |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 25 Apr 03 - 03:39 PM Looking at the standing one (don't know her name), she looks pregnant. Look at that tummy! Makes me think it's not a body double. Dave Oesterreich |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: GUEST,Russ Date: 25 Apr 03 - 02:28 PM Sigh. Same old South. Same old Shit. |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Kim C Date: 25 Apr 03 - 02:24 PM So Spartacus, tell us how you really feel. :-) |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Spartacus Date: 25 Apr 03 - 02:18 PM ARRRGGHHHHH. I can't believe this topic even merits a thread. The dixie chicks are a pop music group. The fat one apologized because all they want to do is sell records. They don't want ANYONE to be mad at them. Now, because they have no decision making ability of thier own, their trying to twist the "apology" into a "we didn't apologize, we just said it was disrespectful" thing. These women annoy me to no end. Did any of you know that they had one of those "I'd rather go naked than wear fur" nude photos taken, and then told PETA that they couldn't use it at the last minute because they were worried their "country" fans might be hunters and wouldn't like them anymore? There's even a rumor that the tried to pay PETA not to talk about it. It should be clear to everyone that the the thing at the top of the Dixie Chicks priority list is selling records and making money. They did the naked magazine cover for publicity. They hope that publicity will sell more records. I'm tired of it. They fired the last lead singer they had because she was too "traditional", and wouldn't make crappy "new country" music with them. I fully support everyone's right to say what they want to say when they want to say it. But for god's sake if your in the public eye, be prepared to back up what you say. The Dixie Chicks are media whores. This whole event doesn't deserve a thread here, much less a Diane Sawyer interview. If you want to hear strong, talented women with opinions that cant' be bought, buy an Ani Difranco cd. (I don't even like her music so much, but I respect the hell out of her for her talent, ideals, and refusal to back down and give in for money) Listen to Gillian Welch. Madonna can't even play an instrument, but she has the sense to stand behind what she says. Dolly Parton represents what a lot of feminists wouldn't like, but at least she says it loud and refuses to change it for anyone. (whew, glad I got that off of my chest) Spartacus |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Rustic Rebel Date: 25 Apr 03 - 02:11 PM Rick, I just saw Ricky Skaggs a few weeks ago, I don't think he looked that plump. Maybe he was using someone elses body! Rustic ps. The woman who said that about Bush, was it Natalie? Said, "I am who I am and I'm not going to change who I am" Right on Dixie Chick! |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 Apr 03 - 01:14 PM "So some things we could say in a free society are best left unsaid." Such as saying that a man like Bush is an embarrassment? Would pointing out that John Paul II is a Catholic fall into the same category of things best left unsaid? |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: SeanM Date: 25 Apr 03 - 12:45 PM We didn't steal it, we just turned it around The TriLiBeeral Commission strikes again. M |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Midchuck Date: 25 Apr 03 - 12:33 PM Alright, who stole my P. |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Midchuck Date: 25 Apr 03 - 12:32 PM Land of The Free My Ass.>/i> Well, we were the land of the free once, and we could be again. There's only two things preventing it - the Republican party and the Democratic party. Or maybe one thing - there ain't much difference anymore. Just a big competition for who can get the most money out of the lobbyists. And if you want me to free your Ass, I want to know first what it will do if it gets free.... P. |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: GUEST,sorefingers Date: 25 Apr 03 - 11:32 AM Carol it should be but ain't that simple, with Freedom cometh Responsibility, and that requires a little education which OC presupposes a small ammount of intelligence; thus one would not give a monkey a loaded machine gun. So some things we could say in a free society are best left unsaid. I know it appears to be a principle that needs emphasising, a right to be exercised, but when we choose to do so by dissing some innocent party I think it has to be time to learn the meaning of the word all over again. |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Frankham Date: 25 Apr 03 - 11:22 AM Actually, the DC didn't make any unpatriotic remarks. They merely said they were embarrassed to be from Bush's State. The ones that are being unpatriotic are the ones that would suppress free speech. It seems to be a new idea, that if you criticize a president, you are automatically branded as unpatriotic. This is a dangerous new precedent in our country and not in line with a democratic ideal. No one had any qualms about criticizing Clinton or LBJ and those who did were not branded as traitors. As I understand it, the DC are excercising their Constitutional rights. Whatever happened to "I don't agree with you but I'll defend your right to say it."? This is not a popular war. And for those with short memories, FDR was loudly criticized during WWII for everything as was Eisenhower and every other "wartime" president. The suppressors of free speech are reminiscent of the political aparachiks of the former CP under Stalin or other dictators, some of which the US has supported. You may not agree with the DC but don't call them unpatriotic. Remember, you point a finger at someone and two fingers point back at you. Frank Hamilton |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Kim C Date: 25 Apr 03 - 11:10 AM Noddy, the Chicks are FREE to say what they like, and anyone is FREE to disagree with them. However I think death threats and the like are going way too far. |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: John MacKenzie Date: 25 Apr 03 - 10:56 AM Was this Dick C Chix not one of the doctors who looked after Khandu last week, in his hour of trauma?? Giok |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: GUEST,noddy Date: 25 Apr 03 - 10:22 AM you lot are missing the point The US is so full of people living in glass house I Just laugh at you ,the whole world laughs at you, and still you cannot see how far hypocritical you are. Land of The Free My Ass. |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Kim C Date: 25 Apr 03 - 09:52 AM Peter, I wasn't the first one to mention it. They are probably all three using body models. Heck, it don't matter none to me. She said what she said, right or wrong. I think the horse is plenty dead by now. |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: GUEST,sorefingers Date: 25 Apr 03 - 09:15 AM This kind of publicity is bad for you as well Arne, and while I am slapping sissies down, on this site your is either a folkie or gone, so be folkie or bugger off. Deckman - I guess you have to be overseas else you would know. Frank H above neatly sinps out the wee market where in the USA the DCs USED be popular and I cannot think of any reason why the naughty ladies would sell overseas, so you are probably not the only one wondering who they are. Lubock Texans, where incidently the public almost closed down the local radio station after the story broke by objecting to Djs who still played the DCs CDs - Arne here is one too -. The station was trying to fix things up, after all it is still their home town. The Country Music market has no time at all for unpatriotic remarks, in fact merely thinking something anti freeper down here could get a person locked up. The DCs made the mistake of offending once, then afterward backanswering the pooolis by taking their clothes off. They stuck their finger in the air at the folks who used buy their CDs, and I thought they were dissing G W for being dumb??? Makes me wonder if this is the start of a trend, how about pulling all your hair out on CNN? Or how about being honest and admitting that while G W occasionaly puts his foot where mouth should have been, the chics mouths are their asses?, is that why they talk so much shit? Perhaps Marty oughta leave it alone while she is still ahead?, while the cops are now still merely watching what she is doing rather than getting a warrant? Perhaps Arne you might be on the list as well? Perhaps when the FBI are sniffing around in the lobby? doin the dooo ain't kosher ... Arne.. |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo Date: 24 Apr 03 - 11:12 PM Ahhh, "Sorefingers" opens his orifice again. Last I heard, the Dixie Chicks were at the top of the Billboard charts, and their concert tour is almost completely sold out and should sell out completely very soon (and this _before_ their "cover" photo). You can't keep a good woman down (despite what the RNC redneck chickenhawk crew would like to think). You go, girls! Cheers, -- Arne Langsetmo |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Stilly River Sage Date: 24 Apr 03 - 11:02 PM The program is on now--I missed the first half, but what I've seen so far has been very good. More power to them. I'll go buy a CD tomorrow, to vote with my pocketbook. SRS |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Deckman Date: 24 Apr 03 - 09:57 PM Who in the heck are the "Dixie Chicks?" Are they important? Am I important? Are any of us important? (is an important question?). CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Frankham Date: 24 Apr 03 - 09:37 PM One of the problems the DC had was that they are in country music. Nashville reactionaries went out of their way. If they were in rock, folk, jazz,rap ......no problem! Frank |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: SeanM Date: 24 Apr 03 - 06:41 PM Indigo Girls Official Site They're a MUCH more politically active brand of NeoFolk than the Chicks approach - but it's built into their recording, touring - every aspect that I've seen. I'm not all that hot on their music, but I respect that they're still selling well and (as far as I can tell) doing it without compromising their beliefs. M |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Don Firth Date: 24 Apr 03 - 06:32 PM I'm not at all familiar with the Indigo Girls, but I just heard them being interviewed on my local NPR affiliate. I don't know how they look in the buff, but they're a helluva lot more outspoken than the Dixie Chicks--they came on strong--and they're not about to apologize to anyone for stating their beliefs! Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: GUEST,sorefingers Date: 24 Apr 03 - 06:25 PM Gee talk about over-reacting! At this time besides bad sales for their latest release not much else is happening, but OTOH their home town Austin ain't short on young long legged female talent either; perhaps thats the scare - if so I would love to spend a week cruisin the Austin scene to hear the fearsome unknow/s, so we may be in 4 a surprise :). While there I might get to hear the now very noisey and nosey Mr D Hamburger - and where did he get that stupid name? - who seems to be falling out of every mag I read. Can he sing or is this the folkie version of Garth novoice Brooks? If he reads this he should get his own material as well as the expensive mag pages - since thieving in Texas will almost certainly get one shot in the ass. |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: InOBU Date: 24 Apr 03 - 06:08 PM Ok Ok, to the ones who caught that it was body doubles, I admit it, we of Sorcha Dorcha did the body double work... I am the one in the center. Larry |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 24 Apr 03 - 05:51 PM Clinton Hammond: More's the pity, I can't direct you to the delectable photo I told you about. I first heard about it, with a link, in the Banjo-L list. Went there. It was some photographer's site, and this was one of his set of display pictures. The only one with the Chicks, and the only one with nudes. The very next day I got an e-mail on that list that the Chicks had objected to its display, and threatened suit. It seems that the photo had been taken as part of a planned animal-rights, anti-fur campaign, along with photos of other celebrities who "wouldn't wear furs". The ad campaign didn't come about, and the photographer still had the photo. The story (on what authority I don't have any idea) was that they paid him to withdraw it. Maybe they bought the photo and all rights to it. As I recall, the figure of $10,000 was mentioned. I went back to the site, and sure enough, it was gone. Dave Oesterreich |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: GUEST,noddy Date: 24 Apr 03 - 05:42 PM Any truth in the rumour that the photo is their next album cover. Hope so.... |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: SeanM Date: 24 Apr 03 - 05:14 PM It's an interesting move, but it DOES touch off some of my cynical buttons... Where was EW when this first happened? Where was commentary other than mentions of the protest? And sadly, in my mind, it serves to slightly trivialize the entire discussion. Much the same as with this thread, much of the conversation it creates isn't over the imagery, the message the photo is supposed to convey or much else. The discussion invariably turns to discussions of the physical appearance. And it's not just from the males... Ah well. At least it's getting SOME coverage, and it's also (hopefully) encouraging the population at large not to knuckle under when someone says "you're not a patriot if you don't support El Shrubbo". I can dream at least. M |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Betsy720 Date: 24 Apr 03 - 04:46 PM Bought my very first Dixie Chicks CD yesterday, solely as a political act. The clerk said, "Hey! You're the third one!" |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Clinton Hammond Date: 24 Apr 03 - 04:24 PM "whether it is Natalie's body or not" Do you think you see ANYBODYS "Real body" on a magazine cover??? Absolutely not... And well, who cares??? |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Peter T. Date: 24 Apr 03 - 04:22 PM I think it is very healthy to move the conversation towards whether it is Natalie's body or not. Such a smart move. yours, Peter T. |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Kim C Date: 24 Apr 03 - 03:48 PM I don't think that's Natalie's body. Well, it might be Natalie's body, retouched. |
|
Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Troll Date: 24 Apr 03 - 03:48 PM Good lookin' gals. If they can take the flac over what Natalie said, good enuff. She had a right to say what she said. Other people had a right to react as they say fit. That's how the system is supposed to work. I do, however, draw the line at physical threats. That is grossly uncool and ,if the perps can be caught, they should be punished. And, no, I don't want a wall-sized poster. I have very bad eyesight. My orientation is more tactile and I don't think either they or my wife would approve. sigh troll |
| Share Thread: |
