BS: Racial No-nos

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 03:49 PM

"And while there are lessons to learn by looking backward, you have to look forward too, or you'll trip over the coffee table."

Too true.

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 03:47 PM

For the record, Joe, Frankie and Derrick in the Gospel Messengers keep pressing me to play banjo with the group. They don't seem to think that I am trying to bring up images of happy black slaves on the plantation, or that I have a Master Complex. In the black churches I worship and perform in with such regularity, and in friendships within the black community, I rarely (I'm being honest and giving the benefit of the doubt, because I can not remember a single incident) hear anyone mention the black/white thing. And, I don't believe that they discuss it when I'm not around, and just clam up when they see me coming.

I'd like to think that most of us white folks already realize that we shouldn't use the "N" word, sing with burnt cork on our faces, or wear raggedy clothes to look like a slave, while singing slave songs. I have always found the folk community to be very warm and open, accepting people of all races, shapes & sizes. It gets a little dicier if your believe in God or are a Republican, but even there, I find folkies to be gracious and accepting. If anything, as a generality, I find the folk community more likely to bend over backward to be sensitive to people who are different than they are.

And while there are lessons to learn by looking backward, you have to look forward too, or you'll trip over the coffee table.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 03:20 PM

It's not just race--as you well know. I'm sure you're up on Irish history, and religion did it there; well, that and economics. Sure kept the Irish apart, and they are a single 'race'--much as that's possible in the jet age.

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 03:13 PM

All salient points in Jeri's post.

Race, like any other distinction, is about keeping us separated from one another.

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 03:09 PM

"Having said that, it is also true that none of us are responsible for the actions of people who mostly died before we were born. We can only look to our own actions in the here and now, and strive to find a better way to build relationships in the future."

Good words, Don. I often teach exchange students in my senior English classes and one of the films I use is "Schindler's List". There has never been a backlash against German exchange students because to the Canadian students it's 'ancient history'. Heck, they often ask me what it was like to live without colour TV, electricity--and exactly how DID we keep the dinosaurs away from our caves. Your remark prompts me to ask then what does keep the spiral of discrimination going. Does this mean that discrimination is now institutionalized? Part of the social fabric and there's bugger all we can do about it? (Not confrontive here, just asking.)

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 02:53 PM

Amos

Your life is much more on the Internet than real life, you have lost touch with what is live and what is Cyberspace. Live dialogue here and face to face are two different animals. Get real.

Azizi, it is the real me, just too lazy to log on. My posts about what offend me are a defense against pure anti-semitism which truly exists here at Mudcat.

It has nothing at all to do with music and does not warrant your comparision.

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Amos
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 02:31 PM

AR282:

Seems you're pretty handy with the stereotypes yourself, amigo.

You think there's a "times" of some kind, a leading wave of enlightenment where these issues are no longer relevant to ordinary lives?

I suggest you've slipped into an elitist mindset that protects you from ordinary confusions and the issues of people's lives. Hope it makes you comfy. Warning: such cocoons are fragile in the presence of live two-way communication.    Do not expose to live dialogue.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: GUEST,AR282
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 01:58 PM

I have to laugh at threads like these.

Racial content, racial no-nos. Gimme a break.

All this is is a "how-not-to-offend-blacks" thread. Shows you how utterly far behind the times Mudcat is.

FYI, race not only is no longer a strictly black and white thing--it NEVER was!!!!!

You are NOT the only people that matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 01:51 PM

Sheesh... manifesto. That thing shoulda had chapters!

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 01:47 PM

I think that the list of don'ts serves to keep the prejudice going to some extent.

Don't sing 'jump down, turn around'. It's a personal prejudice which you're attempting to have Mudcatters believe is group prejudice. I can see many African Americans objecting to the song. I can see many African Americans objecting to images of Black banjo players. Everybody knows banjos are played by toothless, drooling white guys who live up in the mountains and sodomize outsiders. The problem is, if you keep beating the stereotypes into people's heads, you just make sure they're perpetuated.

Regarding, 'slave' talk, I was called by an African American telemarketer the other day, and it was very hard to understand him. I wanted to tell him his Black dialect was getting in the way of communication, but you can't just tell somebody that when you don't know him, plus it's a cultural heritage. I don't think of it as 'slave' talk, it's just a modern dialect that people learn because of where they grow up not what color they are - or are we talking about something else? Jive? Ghetto? People who grow up in the same neighborhoods tend to sound similar. And what's the difference between rural southern Black and White, and how do you know Bobert's a 'blue eyed soul brother' but Joe Blow isn't? How do you know he wasn't talkin' good ol' boy?

When I try to figure out why I dislike the premise of this thread, the answer I seems to be that it assumes the audience is a bunch of ignorant white Americans who might accidentally call somebody an N-word ("Oops, that bothers you? Really!? Sorry, it just slipped out."), and who have never been off the mountain, or out of the trailer park. So I have a problem with being assumed to be an idiot. "But I'm more concerned in this thread with the fact that White people may honestly not have a clue that some of the things they say and do might be culturally incompetent [which is another way of saying "politically incorrect"] with regards to race." Now, I've done some stupid things, but I think I know how to be polite to people and show respect. I shall try to remember that the blind leading the blind might actually get somewhere if they communicate to one another. There are some things that piss off white people too, but I'll save that for later. Here's my answer to all of this:

I'm going to behave in a way I think is right. If I get mad, my argument is going to be about something they've done or said and not that person's individual charachteristics. If I say something that appears prejudiced, think about why I REALLY said it, and then ask me. I refuse to be nervous about referring to African American songs or African American banjo players. I do NOT have any intention of stereotyping, and if you see a stereotype, it's yours, not mine.

This is a site about folk music, complete with it history, whether good or bad. We need to remember the good and take joy in it. We need to remember the bad and talk about it. We need to examine our own reactions, and ask "why?" When you think a dialect is 'owned' by a race, think. If anyone actually believed I could tell a guy I'd never met was Black because of how he talked on the phone, think. When you see an image of an African American banjo player, and think "we {perhaps more than White Americans} consider this instrument to be part of the caricature of the watermelon eating, pop eyed Southern widely grining slave who was happy in his servitude.", ask yourself who sold you that stereotype, why you bought it, and why you want to pass that stereotype on. Ask yourself when it's going to be OK for an African American to play banjo. My guess is the answer would be "when enough African Americans think "stuff your stereotype - I can do what I want." When they decide to break a 'don't' rule or two.

While I think discussion is good, I don't care for the level of this one. Azizi and the rest of you mostly clueless white people (now that would make a great band name, eh? Azizi and the Clueles White People. There was 'NWA', now there's 'CWP'. I'm trying to be funny here) can carry it on. Sometimes people don't behave the way society think they should because they're anti-social or merely socially incompetent. Sometimes, it's because they've thought about whatever the rule is and made their own decision for their own reason. Assuming you know what those reasons must be or just assuming people are stupider than you aren't good things.

I try to ignore stereotypes. You can tell me about the ones you'd like me to know of and honor all you want, I'm ignoring them. You go ahead and play a banjo no matter what race you are, you eat watermelon at picnics, you play blues, you wear green on St Pat's, you celebrate African American Heritage Month, you move to my neighborhood, you listen to rap, you listen to country music, you do what you love, what inspires you. If I give you any indication I'm judging you against a stereotype, call me on it because THAT is something I can learn from. I'll try to stick to my racial yes-yes, indeed my human yes-yes's: respect people, be nice, be willing to either compromise or acknowledge the other person's dissatisfaction and get past it. I try to envision what a decent person might be like in the best of all possible future worlds, and be as much like her as I can manage.

I've gone on for a LONG time here, but someone trying to teach me manners just bugs me. Also, it's been a while since I've been on the proverbial 'high horse' (I swear he didn't inhale) and I wanted to enjoy the ride. If anyone continues on from anything I've said, I hope it will be to discuss this: What's the difference between teaching people to respect other people's feelings about stereotypes and teaching people to respect the stereotypes?

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 01:27 PM

GUEST,Martin Gibson,

you wrote:
".. you have to be so obsessed with your own blackness that you would have to write and start a thread like this? Should we all write and start threads on what offends us?"

I do reject the premise that I am obsessed with my own blackness or anyone else's blackness.

If you are the real Martin Gibson, you have started threads on what offended you.

I believe that it is important to know one's roots & culture [to use a Bob Marlyish phrase]. Knowing about the accomplishments of people who look like you is part of building a healthy self-esteem. It is also important to learn the bad things members of your race/ethnic group did in the past and are doing in the present.

I don't think it necessarily racist for a White person to have White pride-it depends on the amount of that pride a person has and what other beliefs that person has [for instance, are they a multi-culturalist-after all, it seems to me that person can have pride in their group and still be a multi-culturalist-for instance they can believe that there are many different definitions of physical beauty..

And it seems to me that its not just the amount of racial pride that a person has but what he or she does with that pride..
for instance does the person go around wearing white sheets and burning crosses or beating up & harassing people who are of different races or religions then they are?

If so- well then their pride has become negativity.

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: bobad
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 01:17 PM

"And I'm not in to playing the mind game of which race committed the most atrocities lately or ever, or which atrocity was the worse lately or ever."

Neither am I, I'm simply trying to keep the atrocity meter in perspective.

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 01:05 PM

GUEST,A

Do some Black people use racial slurs? Yep. I never said we didn't.
{clarification-I don't]. But I did write that I was limiting my discussion...and basically I wanted to share that what White people don't know may hurt them {or cause them to hurt others}...

And I limited my points to racial no nos in music [since this is a music forum though I understand that I posted the thread in the BS section].

There are a whole host of non-music racial no nos that White people may or may not know with regard to Black people. But I don't have the energy-at least at this time-to go there.

It's too bad we don't have more people of color who post here [Black, Latino, Asian, Indian/Mative American, First Nation, who ever]. It would have been interesting to see how the conversation would have flowed.

And if someone wanted to start a thread on Racial no nos that Black people should know about so as not to be offensive to White people, I certainly would read it and comment if the spirit moved me to do so.

****
s&r thanks for the info re: bowdler

****

weelittledrummer,
you wrote "there are enough serious things to get steamed up about - it just amazes me that there isn't a thread about more obvious injustices - the way there is a large unrepresentatively large number of black people on death row say - as opposed to getting angry about a song of very questionable offensiveness - and certainly not included as an act of malice."

I'm not angry. This thread is not limited to Pick A Bale of Cotton. And I never said that I thought that singing it-in the context of that school recital that got all the publicity- was an act of malice. As a matter of fact, I said just the opposite on this thread or/and? on the other thread that specifically focuses on that song. And do I think that song is offensive, given that context-yes.

And weelittledrummer, as I'm sure you know, you can start a thread just as easily as I can about "more obvious injustices".

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 12:46 PM

I have worked blue collared jobs in the past with black/Afro Americans, some who became friends, and could never understand their own use of the word nigger towards each other and yet the resentment of it if if it came some other race. It either smacks of a double standard or a self-esteem issue.

Us Jews were slaves for a long time, also. You do not hear Jews referring to themselves or each other as kikes in any inter-cultural way.

Azizi, if I said I have white pride, would I be a racist? Am I supposed to feel guilty for that? Do you think Jesse Jackson would think so?

I'm glad you consider bobert's mimicing of blackspeak complimentary. I am not even black and I don't. I find it just a put-on and an act.

Azizi, I do respect you. But do you have to be so obsessed with your own blackness that you would have to write and start a thread like this? Should we all write and start threads on what offends us?

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 12:43 PM

bobad -
I agree that "No one group has a monopoly on the perpetration of atrocity." And I'm not in to playing the mind game of which race committed the most atrocities lately or ever, or which atrocity was the worse lately or ever.

****

KT,

As I shared with you by PM, if a singer wanted to share the background of Amazing Grace by way of a brief introduction to this song, I can't see how that would be offensive, unless the singer went on and on and didn't get on with the song.

****
GUEST,A

Unfortunately, alot of urban Black kids have heard the word
"N----g" used in rap music or otherwise. I have casually mentioned to elementary children who I work with that "the N word" was used to put down Black people and that some people who don't like Black people may still use it. As far as I'm concerned, this is on a need to know basis.

Now that I think about it, I do recall saying to a group of older kids {3rd-5th graders} that the "eeny meenie miney mo" rhyme used to use the word N---g {I said "the N word"}. I then but people realized that saying that word wasn't nice, and so they changed it to "tiger".

As far as I'm concerned, you pick your teaching moments. What you say when you say it and how you say it {and to whom} are all important. context context context..

Which also speaks to daylia's comment about the use of farmer in that rhyme. Because I'm an city girl and know nothing about Alberta, Canada, I didn't know farmer used in that rhyme was a putdown. So maybe "tiger" is a better choice, but tigers may not think so ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: s&r
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 12:22 PM

all about Bowdler

Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: GUEST,A
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 12:19 PM

I was looking for a reply to my minor post and came across the ....."catch a Tiger by its' toe" mention.

Azizi, why would you even think about the possibility of calling it to the attention of the young people? They have obviously become accusomed to the "Tiger" terminology which could be attributed to their Parents/Grandparents outgrowing the use of the "other" due to education, enlightement and just plain proper behavior.I think most have come a long, long way and hope everyone else, regardless of color, is able to do the same thing.

The major problem here in the Midwest where I am most familiar is Black on Black crime with racial slurs basically unheard of.

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 12:02 PM

its sort of odd for us English folk reading all this thread and the one that preceded it.

Most of us learned this song from Lonnie Donnegan. done in a million miles an hour, amphetamine fuelled skiffle style - and . Of couse we'd seen Harry belafonte do it - but it was Lonnie's version that blew our minds.

Similarly I don't think any of us had heard Parchman Farm before John Mayall sung it - again very fast! We obviously prefer our chain gangs to have a sort of hyperactive feel to them.

you have to respect peoples feelings and try not to hurt them. god knows its only music. there are enough serious things to get steamed up about - it just amazes me that there isn't a thread about more obvious injustices - the way there is a large unrepresentatively large number of black people on death row say - as opposed to getting angry about a song of very questionable offensiveness - and certainly not included as an act of malice.

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: bobad
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 11:52 AM

"atrocities perpetrated by White people toward people of color in the United States and throughout the rest of the world."

Indeed, as atrocities have and are being perpetrated by white people toward white people, by black people toward black people and by black people toward white people. No one group has a monopoly on the perpetration of atrocity.

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: *daylia*
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 11:51 AM

I never heard the word "farmer" used instead of 'tiger' in this rhyme.

Azizi, I like 'tiger' best of all.   :-D    May have heard it that way once or twice, but I didn't know the rhyme is of African origin. Thanks!

And yes, of course, using the term "farmer" with no use of the offense "N-word" is better. Wouldn't you think so?

Yes. And on the other hand, I just realized why the use of the word 'farmer'in that rhyme IS 'bigoted' (intended to slight/ridicule/harm a particular social group).

I learned that rhyme from my mother; she learned it where she was born and raised, in and around Edmonton Alberta. In the heart of ranch country, on the prairies of Western Canada.

In this cultural context, the substitution of "farmer" in the rhyme reveals certain urban/rural class divisions; social tension between the wealthy, educated, politically powerful urban classes and the rest of the prairie population (mostly poorer, "uneducated" farmers).

I do think that 'black' being used always as a negative is hurtful. I think that the rhyme "Sticks & stones may break my bones/but names will never hurt me" isn't true. Words do hurt.

Yes they do, and healing the damage (real or perceived) can be far more difficult, take much longer than healing a physical injury.

Thanks for the info, insights and food for thought, Azizi.

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: KT
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 11:39 AM

Azizi, my question was not about the song itself, but the explanation of its origins. Would the explanation of the origins be offensive to you?

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 10:58 AM

I agree with Jerry Rasmussen who wrote upthread that
"There are some in any community who take great offense at the mildest statements, and others who are comfortable enough with themselves that they don't interpret every off-hand comment as an insult. You can see that here in Mudcat.."

I don't interpret ever statement off-hand or not as an insult. I often 'play past' {meaning ignore} some statement. But I also look for learning opportunities or create them-like this thread.

I have often said-and I repeat it here-that I am learning alot from being a member of Mudcat.

Besides for the knowledge that is shared here, there's another reason why I treasure Mudcat. There was a time in my life when I was desperately looking for good White people to conteract accounts of chattel slavery that I was reading, and accounts of the killing and maltreatment of Black people in the United States during the Civil Rights era, and the accounts of other atrocities perpetrated by White people toward people of color in the United States and throughout the rest of the world. I also needed and wanted to know that there were good White people out there to counteract the hurtful personal experiences with racism that I had.

That time has largely passed for me [meaning I'm not that desperate now]. But it is still good for me to have affirmation that there are people like you guys and gals out there.

I would imagine that there are some White people who are guests or members here who need to know that there are Black people who do not conform to the negative stereotypes that they have been consciously or unconsciously been taught.

Maybe Hilda Fish and I serve that purpose for those folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Terry K
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 10:54 AM

Well I'm buggered if I'm going to go around treading on eggshells for fear of offending someone. If anyone is offended by anything I say or do, I suggest you turn the other cheek and get on with your life, just as I and everyone else has to do just about every day. Life's not perfect, never will be. Tough.

Just as an aside, religious people tend to offend me deeply - religous differences being the root cause of most of the world's ills; will I ever stop them doing it? - not a chance, so I have to put up with it. Doesn't mean to say I like it, but I have to accept that some people still do want to hang on to dangerous nonsense like that.

So if I was to want to pick a bale of cotton and some people didn't like it? As a very great man once said "Tell me all your troubles, I'll tell you who to call".

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 10:46 AM

I think it's obvious that no song should be written now with the word "darkies" in it. But "Marching Through Georgia" is a historical artifact,-- written by a man very much in favor of emancipation. It seems that the song could be sung, as is, with that explanation.

No?

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 10:38 AM

Ummmmmmm....... Isn't it interesting that the whole paradigm of the thread appears to be based on narrow subsets of only two of the world's flavors?

One frame of reference I needed to learn about quick, once, was the stuff that goes on between peoples often lumped together as "Hispanics." In planning outreach for a Spanish-language mass in the Chicago area, friends were quick to inform us that we would need to know how to avoid giving not only GENERAL offense to the people we perceived as one group, but PARTICULAR offense to the many, MANY peoples lumped into that group-- peoples who don't get usually along with the other folks they're lumped with, and whose individual cultures and histories with one another and with dominant/conquering groups are vastly different.

Hopefully, people can learn to generalize underlying principles of respect, as opposed to memorizing sets of rules specific to each group. :~) That's part of what I meant in my earlier post, "flexible thinking."

We need to THINK, and let our behavior reflect that.... otherwise it's too easy to perpetuate racism inadvertently, by assuming and communicating, "Noticing that your skin is darker than mine, I'm assuming you're African American, and so therefore you expect me to xxxx."

I think most of us don't want to exchange rigid, negative stereotypes for rigid rules of behavior based on others' assumed heritage....

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 10:26 AM

katlaughing, thanks for sharing your op.ed article. I love your way with words! And Morris Dees is a wonderful, courageous man who I greatly admire.

That said, in my opinion, since Americans are notorious for our preference for shortened terms, I think that "Americans of African descent" and other such referents will not gain currency in place of shorter terms such as "African American" or "Asian Americans".

****

Peace, thanks for that excerpt and link to that speech by Frederick Douglass, another courageous and eloquent man.

And Peace, one of these days you have to show me how to make blue clickies. Mine always turn up red.

****

Bard Judith,

I facilitate a group of children who meet weekly in an after-school program that explores the creative & performing arts potential of traditional & contemporary African American children's rhymes.
At the end of those sessions, the children often play team games. I have heard children use the choosing it rhyme "Eenie meenie minie moo/ catch a tiger buy the toe/ if he hollers let him go/ eenie, meenie, miney mo". I don't think these children [ages 5-12 years] no that the "N-word" was once used with this rhyme. I haven't shared that with them since I don't think that that would be appropriate in those sessions with mixed age groups.

I also used the same choosing it [or elimination] rhyme when I was growing up in Atlantic City, New Jersey in the 1950s. Except that I remember adding this ending "Out goes the rat/out goes the cat/out goes the lady with the see-saw hat".

And daylia, I never heard the word "farmer" used instead of 'tiger' in this rhyme. And yes, of course, using the term "farmer" with no use of the offense "N-word" is better. Wouldn't you think so?

I do think that 'black' being used always as a negative is hurtful. I think that the rhyme "Sticks & stones may break my bones/but names will never hurt me" isn't true. Words do hurt.

And obviously I think that there are times such as now when it adds context and information for posters to share racial/ethnic and gender identifiers.

****
Ron Davies,

I'm just being introduced to the work of Henry Clay Work.

As to "bowdlerizing a tune by changing words", "bowdlerizing" is a new term for me too. The meaning of words change with the times. Sometimes replacing a now offensive word "works", and sometimes it doesn't. I guess it depends on the word and the song.

****

El Greko,

You wrote "some PC rules are needed. But I argue that excessive political correctness, instead of breaching that gap, can highlight it and so become a barrier to achieving true "comfort" with each other." As to excessive political correctness, it depends on what the meaning of "excessive" is. Unfortunately, those in power are mostly the ones to determine the meaning of "excessive".

****
GUEST,KT,

"Amazing Grace" is a often sung in African American churches. Some Black people know its history and some don't. Yet, despite, its history many African American [including me]have a high regard for the tune and words to this song. Maybe people use this as a sign that God uses whoever He desires to do His will.

****
Don(Wyziwyg)T,

I hate institutional systems that perpetrate inequality. I hate those who often behind the scenes people who keep those systems strong. I don't hate those people who are well meaning but don't realize the hurt that can be caused by certain words and actions.

Yes, sure I forgive people who think nothing of calling Black people N---gs. And I want to alert people to the fact that there are some things that we think are offensive that White people do. As I have said before, this doesn't mean that other things or the same things would be offensive if Black people did them.

And even though people may not publicly or privately call people
N---gs, political, mass media, educational, health care, welfare, housing etc systems are still in place that treat Black people and other people as N---gs.

Those systems perpetuate inequity. And because of them, if the world still exist, our children may be having these same conversations 20 years from now.

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: GUEST,A
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 09:40 AM

The "naive" one has returned. (me)
After re-reading this thread and particulary Azizi's opening post, I find no problem with the discussion.
What I do find interesting is the constant reference to "Whites" saying things that are offensive to "Blacks". I was in Elementary school grades with Black kids, on to High School and College and did not pay attention to ethnicity, only how we treated one another.

I don't understand Boberts speaking "Slave Talk" as I did not grow up in the 1800 hundreds. I have some black aquaintances and friends but not because I talk and act like them (I am White) We do "the handshake" because they instigate it and I consider that a honor. I am still very clumsy at it. NOT with it but at it.

To my point - the reference of White making negative comments that may offend Blacks is overshawdowed in my surroundings by the comments that Black politicians make about other Black politicians. I bring up the political aspect as it is the only negativity I experience.
Examples;

A councilwoman in Detriot emceeing a "roast" that named the Black Mayor "Sambo sellout of the year."

Maryland Repub. Lt. Governor Steele, candidate for the US Sentate, being pelted with Oreos the past couple years. By Blacks, he is Black.

In Ohio, Sec. Of State Blackwell being called "Whitewell" by Al Sharpton. Blackwell is Black.

In the case of Steele (Maryland) A Black Democratic blogger refers to Steele as "Simple Sambo" and caricatured him in minstrel makeup with the caption "I's Simple Sambo and I's running for the Big House."
Marlyland State Sen. Lisa Gladden, a Black Democrat, defends the attacks on Steele as "Party trumps Race."

The above is my secondhand experience with racial overtones. I have not had any firsthand experience that I can remember over the past 30 years.
Comments, Azizi? Asked for in a very humble way although perhaps a naive way.

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 09:13 AM

Thread drift [somewhat]

My intention was to include a link in my last post that showed examples of kente cloth.

Here is one such link:
Kente cloth

I also meant to say that the various colors used in those cloths connect with the adinkra proverbs. African Americans have used this cloth [which traditionally is reserved for funerals and special occasions] for umbrellas, wrapping paper, place mats, and all sorts of mundane things. Kente cloth neck banners with the cross symbol are also very popular with Black ministers. Either traditional kente cloth banners ["stoles" sp?] or multi-colored with with Black university Greek letter sorority or fraternity names are also very popular with African American college graduates.

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 09:02 AM

I agree with that George, and, further to your last paragraph, I find myself wondering why the one word that is conspicuous by its absence throughout this thread is "forgiveness".

Terrible things have happened to many groups of human beings throughout our history, and in all parts of this planet. This we all know, and for most of us they engender feelings of horror, regret, and shame.

Having said that, it is also true that none of us are responsible for the actions of people who mostly died before we were born. We can only look to our own actions in the here and now, and strive to find a better way to build relationships in the future.

Those who cannot let the past be past, and hug to themselves the bitterness and anger that they quite naturally feel, can be a major stumbling block to future unity. Alternatively they can choose to say "I forgive", and move forward.

When someone treats me badly, I CAN choose to hate him forever, but I choose not to, because I believe that doing so will damage me much more than him.

If one truly forgives, IMHO, one is less likely to perceive insult where none is intended. There will always be those few who DO intend hurt and insult to those they see as different, but I look forward to the day when the watchword is not "look what your ancestors did to us", but rather "look what we can do TOGETHER".

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 08:56 AM

Thanks Maryrrf. I'm glad to know that there are people of color who are re-claiming the banjo. There are new generations of African Americans who may not automatically equate the banjo with US slavery or artificially blackened faced minstrel music. I think it is wonderful for them [and for us oldtimers] to have new or re-created banjo music {or music that includes the banjo] that better appeals to our aesthetics.

I particularly applaud Rhiannon Giddens for coming up with the name "Sankofa Strings". "Sankofa" is an Akan {Ghana, West Africa} adinkra pictorial symbol and proverb which means "It is never to late to go back and reclaim that which you have left behind." Since the late 1980s, or earlier African Americans have widely adopted the word "Sankofa" and one of its pictorial symbols [a bird standing with his head looking backwards] as a symbol for our connection with our roots. BTW, multicolored kente cloth, another symbol that African Americans have adopted to express our pride in African culture, also comes from the Akan people. African Americans pronounce "Sankofa" like this {sand-KOH-fah}.

As an aside, I think if the word "Sankofa" hadn't conformed with African American sound aesthetics,it wouldn't have been so widely received regardless of its meaning. Part of that aesthetics is a strong preference for words [including personal names] that have two to three syllables and end with an "a". Check out the large number of Arabic and contemporary African Americans female names that have an "a" at the end [for example "Aliyah" {the Arabic 'h" is usually dropped or not pronounced}. Other examples of 'a' ending female names given to popular with African Americans are "Maisha", "Aisha" "Chantiqua", "Taneka". "Kenya" is a Kikuyu {East African} word and nation name that is quite common among African Americans as a [mostly] female name, simply because of its two syllable formation and the "a" ending...

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 08:18 AM

My intent in starting this thread was to share my view on what things turn White people may innocently or purposely do that are offensive to African Americans.

I am grateful to Hilda Fish for deepening the discussion to the politics of inequity.

It is my opinion that this politics of inequality not only is responsible for education, employment, housing, health care, child welfare, public welfare, juvenile justice, criminal justice, and other forms of unjust laws, regulations, and treatments for people of color and the poor of any race.

I believe that this politics of inequality is created and maintained by propaganda, including such tactics as divide & conquer by appealing to societal propagated racial & religious prejudices. In doing so the powerful monied people [who are almost all White] stay in power.

I agree with mg who wrote that there are many poor White people in this world. I believe that these people suffer as a result of this international power system.

I believe the ones with real power could care less about the race or color or ethnicity of poor people. Green is the color they worship.

But though it may be minor in the scheme of things, I believe that it is still important to alert people who are well meaning to those things that members of one race may find offensive.

When it comes to tearing down self-esteem, what someone may consider minor often leaves lasting pain.

I know this and, regardless of your race, I'm sure that some of you have had experiences that confirm this.

Can we make a difference?

Yes.

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: *daylia*
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 08:07 AM

I don't like or use offensive or "racially-sensitive" language myself - I never have. Spent many years trying to offset and eliminate what my own kids (most unfortunately) learned at school and in the playgrounds. BUt I refuse to waste energy keeping tabs on my speech 24/7, never letting some innocent word like "black" (?) slip out, in case someone might take offense!

I figure if people insist on being offended when obviously no offense was intended, if they have a habit of overlooking the context of my words in their zeal to point a PC finger, well - that's their problem. Not mine.

A couple questions:

As a little kid, I'd learned the rhyme Peace mentioned this way: "Eeeny meeny miney mo, catch a FARMER by the toe ..." I ask you, is "Farmer" any less bigoted than the "N" word? Is my version more acceptable because it makes no reference to the color of the farmer's skin?

I think not! Maybe a more enlightened version would be "Catch a folkie by the toe"?   :-)

Another question: I'm sitting here at my computer, "invisible". Most of you don't know me from a hole in the ground, can only guess whether my skin might be red, pink, brown, yellow, white, black or purple with lime-green polka-dots. If I were to post something like "oh please don't keep me in the DARK!" or "after all that hassle yesterday my mood was pretty BLACK", or even dared to quote a few lines from "Cotton Fields" (CCR) or "Ole Black Joe" or "Nobody Knows De Trouble I Seen" - would certain sensitive PC souls be lining up to find out what colour my own skin might be before they decided to take offense and accuse me of bigotry?

I'm into peace and freedom for all, no matter what colour they are or social background they hail from. This includes developing enough peace of mind and self-assurance that I don't take offence where obviously none was intended, and practicing freedom of speech for all.

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 07:25 AM

Henry Clay Work again--

As I said earlier, he was a very strong abolitionist. But he wrote in the style of his time.

Marching Through Georgia, as you know, salutes the defeat of the South and the end of slavery. Yet some of the lyrics are unquestionably offensive today:

"How the darkies shouted when they heard the joyful sound
How the turkeys gobbled which our commissary found
How the sweet potatoes even started from the ground
While we were marching through Georgia".

You already have big trouble singing that song in large parts of the South (still)--Sherman is not their favorite person.

Now it appears there are also large portions of the North where you'd best not sing it.

This seems the height of irony.

I submit you should be able to sing it (at least in the North) if you explain before singing it what I said above---that Work was a very strong abolitionist, but wrote in the style of his time---and that times have definitely changed.

Otherwise is this song not to be sung at all--or bowdlerized by changing words?

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 05:45 AM

I meant "bridging", not breaching, of course..

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 05:39 AM

Peace, I love you man, but I think you might have been a little too harsh on Shambles for is 19 Nov 05 - 06:24 PM post. Despite his legendary inability to be clear and concise, I kind of understand where he's coming from. Someone said further up that context is important (and it is), and the same holds for backgrounds. Roger's background shapes a lot of his perspective, and so does mine. Neither of us grew up in the US, we only know some of the pressures that have existed in these matters second hand (films, books, friends). We lived in a different world to yours, with different pressure points.

Now, if a Turk calls me "giaour", the term for "Greek slave" in the Ottoman days, I know he's joking, and he usually is.

I don't want to offend anyone - neither does Roger, I am sure of that. And I try to be sensitive to such issues and choose my words accordingly. But I also cannot help feeling increasingly oppressed by a sense of political correcness that (in my view) is tending towards becoming a cause by itself. The sensitivity is real, I accept that, and some PC rules are needed to help; but the real balm for relationships is true acceptance (not just with words) of the differences in each other, to a point where they no longer matter.

I repeat - some PC rules are needed. But I argue that excessive political correctness, instead of breaching that gap, can highlight it and so become a barrier to achieving true "comfort" with each other.

I don't pretend to know any answers. I sympathise with those who are sensitised by the past. But I would also ask for sympathy for those who strive to ignore such differences altogether, and find it oppressive having to learn new rules for behaviour (year on year), that seem unnecessary to them. I think Roger is one such, and so am I. It isn't ignorance or callousness - it's trying to go "one better".

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: GUEST,KT
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 02:34 AM

Like Judith, I too, learned the song asa child, with the lyrics, "Oh, Mandy...." My interpretation of the song was always one of joy. To my understanding, it was, like much of the music that came from that time, a testimony to the incredible strength of human spirit, which allowed those who were singing, to find joy, despite the conditions which caused them to be there. That interpretation caused me to have nothing but respect for those who were actually in those fields.

I think this thread is an invitation to be sensitive....sensitive to the feelings of others, but also sensitive to the idea of intention. As important as it is to be sensitive to others' feelings with regard to language, it is equally important to be sensitive with regard to the intentions of others. Although I never have done so, imagining myself teaching that song to children, there would be nothing but reverance in doing so. That would be an important part of the teaching.

I'd like your opinion about something, Azizi. At my regular gig, I am often asked to sing "Amazing Grace." Knowing the story of how John Newton came to write the song, I have given a lot of thought to whether or not it is appropriate to share that story with the audience prior to singing the song. My intention would be to educate those who were unfamiliar with the story, but would not want to offend anyone of African ancestry in doing so. What do you think?

KT

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 02:31 AM

Should anyone her care what racial grouping I come from or what they may intentionally or unintentionally say to offend me in reference to my racial grouping?

Should I also supply a list of what these might be?

Should everyone else posting here also supply a list?

There are real problems facing all of us - we can make special cases for our particular racial groupings and demand that others make some sort of effort to try and make-up for some of the terrible things of the past and present. I feel this approach - no matter how understandable - simply binds us all to the past and will not allow any of us to move on to find better ways of living together.

The banjo is just an instrument - a tool if you like - and the music it produces and how we judge this music is a matter of taste. I suggest it is less what music that has been played upon it but what we all now choose to play.

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: mg
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 01:05 AM

hilda fish said "Think peoples, it is not the white nations of this world who are starving, it is not the white nations of this world who have unacceptable infant mortality rates, it is not the white young generations who are in prison and in despair, in totality." But unfortunately some at least very recently have been starving, have had horrible infant mortality rates, and some would deliberately get put in prison so they would get something to eat. REmember how awful the stories and pictures were coming out of Romania just a few years ago//literally naked children..or covered with soot from the tire factories..the infant mortality in places like russia and estonia was horrifying..i don't know what it is now..hopefully better..the old people with nothing but potatoes and maybe a spot of tea...there are infomercials actually right now about aid programs for them...the children in places like pakistan 9sorry my keyboard is really sticking..and afghanistan and iran..you could not tell a good many of them from american children..and many are very very hungry and sick..and at least a few years ago when i still had the energy to fight school boards etc. they had to claim themselves as caucasian in the registrations...so there is no shortage of misery probably anywhere in teh world..which just means we have to expand our notions of where it is and look for solutions where we can find them....mg

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Maryrrf
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 12:59 AM

Interesing to come across this thread. I have just come from an amazing concert by Rhiannon Giddens and her musical partner Dom Flemmons. Rhiannon is at the forefront of the Black Banjo
movement and was one of the first organizers of the Black Banjo Gathering
. She is an amazing, multitalented young woman, as at home picking the banjo or playing the fiddle, as she is starring in a lavish opera production, singing an Appalachian ballad, or belting out a blues number. Oh and here's a link to her band Sankofa Strings . And here's an article that appeared back in May in the Richmond Times Dispatch about Rhiannon

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Peace
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 12:45 AM

Words have the ability to hurt, condemn, inspire, rekindle hope and instill pride.

"At a time like this, scorching irony, not convincing argument, is needed. Oh! had I the ability, and could I reach the nation's ear, I would today pour out a fiery stream of biting ridicule, blasting reproach, withering sarcasm, and stern rebuke. For it is not light that is needed, but fire; it is not the gentle shower, but thunder. We need the storm, the whirlwind, and the earthquake. The feeling of the nation must be quickened; the conscience of the nation must be roused; the propriety of the nation must be startled; the hypocrisy of the nation must be exposed; and its crimes against God and man must be denounced."

from Frederick Douglass. Complete speech here.

However, Hilda's writing above (both pieces) brought to mind an exchange I had with a friend two decades ago. Joe had asked me what I perceived to be the greatest problem facing the world. I replied, "Nuclear weapons." I asked him what he thought. He replied, "Poverty." I asked why he thought that to be more 'urgent' than nuclear weapons. He said, "Because for poor people, the bomb has already dropped."

Indeed. Racism, poverty, institutional hatred: They are political acts. Sadly, indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: number 6
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 12:21 AM

"I like the idea of "Forever Young" better."

... me too.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: hilda fish
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 12:16 AM

"All of us have cultural and/or ethnic and/or historic, etc., etc., etc. paradigms. And All of us have distorted vision, or an inaccurate roadmap of reality, because our paradigms function as lenses and are never clear or colorless." Absolutely and I would never dream of denying people their identity, culture, vision or dreams, - I only demand a bit of intelligent analysis of the society we are living it. It's not too much to ask really. The songs we sing and the poems we recite, the marks we make, all reflect our politics both individually and culturally. Having said that, and it is important, I have to say it is not what I am firing up about. Discrimination, racism and genocide come from INEQUALITY - come from the poltitics we choose and the means we take either consciously or unsconciously to express these views, not from a particular cultural, ethnic or historic paradigm per se. It is not individualised although the solution can be. For example, to say that we are all human, despite our colour, (as is often said) denies BLACK history as we, as the 'other' would never say that - it is a political statement, a statement of a political relationship in the world that very much encapsulates whether one is of the dominant (read white). We (BLACK - includes all those who know who they are) know who we call 'brother' and 'sister' and that is about first of all recognising our common oppression, our lack of equality in OUR worlds, which are often side by side with that other world which deludes itself often with making the dream of equality a reality by simply saying "what we need is a great big melting pot" (what about THAT one Azzizi?) We can all be held accountable historically for what we would like the world to be, but then we'll be dead, and what the world actually is, will be inherited by the generations as yet unborn. "Here is your gift from us baby spirit - hope you live to enjoy it". It is interesting where there has been strong collaboration between say, artists of Indigenous and non-Indigenous backgrounds, or Afro-American and white European background, or Latin American and white American background (and on and on) - where two sides of the equal/unequal coin meet and communicate on creativity. The first thing that is most often covered is exactly that - how equality or not works for them. And in most cases they do hold themselves accountable to not only historical creativity and cultural history itself, but to current race/class politics. I've loved observing these collaborations and the results of them, the best ones I've seen have been between Irish and Indigenous people. Mick Dodson here in Australia said that "all we want is social justice, the chance to put bread on the table, a roof over our heads, get the children educated, have the dog not treat you like a stranger, have the neighbour not have the word 'coon' in their language." It is the last that kills. It is not individual as genocide is not individual - it is a poltical act in the same way that mental illness among minorities is not a medical problem but a political problem. I am wondering if I am making sense here. Now, it is Eastern and Middle Eastern people who have become UNEQUAL and it is awful. But welcome to the club. We'll show you how to duck the club and steal the food and bury your babies, handle prison, discrimination, and people treating you like you are the invisible dog. Meanwhile all, what about a rousing - I was going to say "Pick A Bale Of Cotton" but I like the idea of "Forever Young" better.

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: number 6
Date: 20 Nov 05 - 12:06 AM

"ethically conscious"

Ones who are victims of prejudice, discrimination must persevere in educating the non-victims.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: number 6
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 11:57 PM

Thanks for that post Kat.

I've been reading through this thread, certainly one of the best here in the Mudcat .. very good, thought-provoking.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 11:51 PM

Azizi, thanks for this thread. Just scanning it right now, will read it in more depth when I have more time. One comment I would like to make:

I had the distinct pleasure of having dinner with Morris Dees, of the Southern Poverty Law Center, a few years ago, in Wyoming. We were discussing the different ways in which ethnic groups were described. He said the NYTimes turned down an essay of his, one time, in which he refered to other Americans, not by their racial background, as in African American or Asian American, but by what he believes to be more accurate, that is American of African or Asian descent, or whatever other ethnic background they may be. Here's a published op/ed piece of mine which reflects what he said. I hope you don't mind my posting it in this thread:

Check your pejorative at the door

   The term, politically correct, meant to nurture an environment of tolerance and equality, has itself become a "dirty word" in reference to those of us who would be inclusive and just plain nice. In that light, then, I am using a new term: "ethically conscious" instead of the much maligned PC.

   As one who has studied the power of the spoken word for a long time and worked on bias crimes legislation for the past six years, I find nothing wrong in changing the language to reflect an enlightened consciousness. I believe one of the beauties of language is that it can change and be added to.

   I have also adopted what I consider to be the ethically conscious language of Morris Dees, of the Southern Poverty Law Center. He refers to other Americans, not by their racial background, as in African American or Asian American, but by what he believes to be more accurate, that is American of African or Asian descent.

   Our subconscious is not objective. Like a computer it takes in anything we feed it and, believes it to be the truth. That's why advertising works so well.

   If we don't change what people hear, especially what children hear, how can we hope for an improvement of society for all people? Take a child and use negative language around him, day in and day out, and it will have a detrimental effect. If we don't speak up when we are offended or hurt, things will never change; injustice will be served and none the wiser, or better off.

   I am not advocating control of anybody's speech or mind. Privately, anybody is free to declare whatever they want. What I am concerned about is in general society. On the eve of the a new century, let alone a millennium, there are still people who would welcome societal approval of once again posting "no coloureds allowed" in their businesses' windows.

   As a friend of mine recently noted, "The hate mongers are governed by the same laws that govern the rest of us. If we fight them, and we must, we do so within reasoned application of the law, diligent law enforcement, and organized social pressure; we must all practice responsible, considerate behaviors. Our words and deeds must be those of sensitive adults who display acceptance and open minds to all people."

   When those who harbour hate for a race, gender, or whatever, are expected to be polite or ethical in the language they use in society, it means one more person, who may have been the object of their hatred, escapes the degradation of spirit, feelings of despair, and, even anger such terms may cause. Collectively, we can demand a more enlightened rhetoric to pervade our daily, mass consciousness. It does have an effect. If we don't work towards a change in mass consciousness, towards the upliftment of all humankind, then what are we even doing here?

   With corporations, educational institutions, and government entities having their own ethics committees and training programs, it seems the politically correct thing to do in declaring ourselves ethically conscious or "EC" in keeping with the goals of a better world for all.

© 12/09-99 OoBraughLoo Press All rights reserved

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Bard Judith
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 11:51 PM

I'm surprised by my own naivete:

The words I heard/learned for the "Pick a Bale" song when I was a child (off a taped-from-a-record borrowed-cassette) were

"Oh, Mandy, pick a bale of cotton, oh, Mandy, pick a bale a day..." No 'Lordy', which to us would have been an irreverence that would have drawn disapproval from my conservative fundamentalist parents.

And the high-energy, pulsingly rhythmic styling of the music reinforced my innocent conception of the words as a 'bragging song': "Me and my partner, we can pick a bale of cotton...me and my wife, we can pick a bale a day...Jump down! Spin around! Pick a bale a day!"

We had an enormous 'tuck garden' as we were growing up; all of us children used to have to take our turn at the hoeing, cultivating, weeding, harvesting, etc. that was associated with the expanse, and we would sing this, along with many folk work songs such as 'Sixteen Tons', 'Working on the Railroad', 'Halifax Line', 'Leave 'er Johnny', etc. I remember us singing the lines from Belafonte's 'Day-O' quite pointedly at my father when we thought we had been down there long enough: "Work all night till the morning come! Daylight come and I wanna go home...."

I hadn't thought about/ remembered the 'Pick a Bale of Cotton' song for many years until the recent post to the forum. An 'of course!' moment may not happen as frequently for me these days, but they do still occur.


And I was also shocked to discover that a counting rhyme I have used equally innocently for years with the words 'catch a tiger by the toe' apparently had a far different noun (and intent) in its original inception.

So - am I guilty of racism and reinforcing stereotypes? Or merely ignorance? Is 'ignorance of the law' - or in this case the background, history, and etymologies involved - no excuse? And should I find another counting-out rhyme when arbitrarily choosing children for the games I play daily with them?






[I'm sure Azizi (at the least) will answer (the last question at the least!) because I know she has a passion for children's rhymes :) ]

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: freda underhill
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 11:45 PM

I'm currently working closely with Muslim Australians. these issues come up, and it's interesting seeing how people interact. Some people like to shake hands, some don't, some are into the hijab, some aren't. The debate about who "should" do this or that is pushed here by the radio shock jocks - usually lecturing Muslim Australians about what they "should" do.

as with any community, there's a range of people, views and approaches. where it gets tough is people analysing each other and their motives - if someone's intention is good, but they make some social booboo, i don't focus on that but just keep connecting. and they are usually good enough to do the same with me.

it's illuminating to hear people's stories - and songs. that's where it all comes out.

freda

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Biskit
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 11:30 PM

Thank You Janie!
still wish you'd 'splain that whole banjo thing Azizi,
Peace! Through Understanding
~Biskit~

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Janie
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 09:40 PM

Hmmmm....pondering...pondering....

It is about understanding and respect...and that has to flow both ways. All of us have cultural and/or ethnic and/or historic, etc., etc., etc. paradigms. And All of us have distorted vision, or an inaccurate roadmap of reality, because our paradigms function as lenses and are never clear or colorless.

I value what you are courageous enough to share, Azizi. And you also have your own distortions with which to deal.

My hope would be that conversations such as this can help all of us see more clearly. Each of our points of view are valid within our own paradigms. Scary.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Racial No-nos
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 09:25 PM

Racial No Nos

8. [outside of or along with educational study/discussion]
   showcasing songs or poems that lament being Black.

Such as this 'classic':

Cold empty bed...springs hurt my head
Feels like ole Ned...wished I was dead
What did I do...to be so black and blue

Even the mouse...ran from my house
They laugh at you...and all that you do
What did I do...to be so black and blue

I'm white...inside...but, that don't help my case
That's life...can't hide...what is in my face

How would it end...ain't got a friend
My only sin...is in my skin
What did I do...to be so black and blue

(instrumental break)

How would it end...I ain't got a friend
My only sin...is in my skin
What did I do...to be so black and blue

[Recorded by Louis Armstrong July 22, 1929 with his Orchestra.
He also recorded the song in 1955 with his All Stars.]

http://tinpan.fortunecity.com/riff/11/frame/b9.html

-snip-

What??? "I'm white...inside...but, that don't help my case"

"My only sin...is in my skin
What did I do...to be so black and blue"

I've been told that in African tradition, art should not be solely for art's sake. What does this song say to Black children, youth, and adults? And what does it say to non-Black children, youth, and adults about the virtues of not being Black?

I DESPISE this song.