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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: ard mhacha Date: 26 May 06 - 11:02 AM I juast woder if those people in Kings College Cambridge are really planted Paddies?. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST,Billy McKinley Date: 26 May 06 - 10:24 AM I served in the Artillery for three years during National Service. Remember the beatings well. It was brutal take it from me. Few of us like to talk about it. Think it's best passed over. Flora, mustard and jam. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 26 May 06 - 09:54 AM Well Keith you were either lucky or blind. The young men I speak of, I knew intimately. I live in what was then a very isolated area and those men went to school with me, grew up with me, chased the girls with me. They were well adjusted people with the well devoloped sensitivity of country folk. Almost every face I call to mind was badly affected by his spell in uniform. Some were almost unrecognisable on their return, many suffered severe pschological problems, all returned harder and less sensitive. The syndrome is put best in my opinion by Lewis Grassic Gibbon in his famous novel "Sunset Song", where Chris's husband Ewan ..a peasant farmer, returns from France to a horrified Chris, who cannot believe him to be the kind gentle boy who left her a year before. Everyone should read Lewis Grassic Gibbon's novel, it would aid our understanding of the state of our society today...Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 26 May 06 - 09:20 AM When I was a boy every adult male, Dad, uncles, teachers, tradesmen, were all ex military. I don't remember any brutes though. The army in Iraq can not be said to be acting like hired killers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Dave Hanson Date: 26 May 06 - 09:01 AM I've never heard such crap in my entire life Ake, I've served in the British Army, have you ? eric, [ ex cavalry man ] |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 26 May 06 - 08:16 AM I've been away for a while, but I have to agree with ard mhacha's comment on the status of serving soldiers. To call trained troops "scum of the earth" is acceptable. I'm afraid that many people here are unable to accept that military training brutalises. These young men simply become hired killers, doing the bidding of whatever madman weilds power over them. The Iraq conflict is a very good example of this. The reasons for war have been changed so often, and nuanced to such an extent that I'm sure most of the soldiers neither know nor care what is right or wrong. I remember National Service in Britain, and the brutalising of many of my young friends. On leaving the Army some recovered after a few years....some did not...Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Divis Sweeney Date: 25 May 06 - 05:43 PM And a peaceful good night from Ireland to everyone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 25 May 06 - 05:37 PM A peaceful night to all. I expect we will be at it again tomorow. Good luck, Keith. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Dave the Gnome Date: 25 May 06 - 05:16 PM I wasn't gpong to post here again but I feel I must say "Very well said indeed, Guest of 02:13" That is indeed the beauty of Mudcat and, after some of the nastiness that has been happening on other threads of late, it is wonderful to see a grown up discussion that does not resort to foul mouthed name calling. Shame that any personal attacks occurs at all but as, on this thread anyway, it all seemed to be the work of other nameless characters I think we can safely ignore it. Guest 02:13 you are the reason that Guests should be allowed to post here. Many thanks. DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 25 May 06 - 02:13 PM Glad to see peace seems to have come to this thread. All of you have a viewpoint and lets respect that. Heated,passionate and emotional sums it up. Let's hope this bloody film is as good ! All still friends I hope? Yes this is the great thing about mudcat. Good luck to you all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Snuffy Date: 25 May 06 - 07:38 AM Are you saying that maybe the Tans weren't the scum of the earth, but just ordinary blokes with really bad PTSD after four years on the Western Front? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Stu Date: 25 May 06 - 05:45 AM The film looks good though. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: ard mhacha Date: 25 May 06 - 05:13 AM This news just released from a Kigs College Cambridge study shows that some 25% of part-time recruits and 19% of regular British soldiers returning from Iraq have mental health problems. Post-traumatic stress disorder [PTSD]was one of the mental conditions that was found to be recurring in these soldiers. Former soldier turned author Alistair Renwick documented some of the Northern Ireland cases of PTSD in his book Hidden Wounds. In one case soldier Jimmy Johnson suffereing from PTSD beat a man to death. He was imprisoned in 1974 but at that time his condition was not diagnosed. He came out in 1983 and 18 months after his release killed another man. Johnson has done much from inside prison to raise the question of lack of treatment for PTSD. For too long those at the British MOD have been content to kick the question of mental illness under the carpet. Given that the level of prisoners suffering from mental health disorder has been put as high as 70% surely a detailed breakdown of service personnell should be made a priority. As I keep telling you these mental cases having done their bit for Queen and country return to haunt YOUR streets, you are welcome to them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 25 May 06 - 04:51 AM The suggestion is that most historical films have rewriten history. One subject. Why does that make me anti Irish? I am going to stop responding to nameless guests who are starting to dominate this thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 25 May 06 - 04:40 AM They are two different subjects Keith. In your attempts to twin the two together, you show your blatant anti-Irishness. I would welcome the film that shows how the IRA bombed the British to the negotiating table. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 25 May 06 - 04:10 AM Star a new thread and I will try to answer. Let us try to keep this discussion to the film and rewriting history. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 25 May 06 - 04:04 AM The only one I see making any sense here is ardmhacha. Keith you didn't like the idea of the nazi's coming into Britain and forcing rule on you. You were asked what you would do against an occupying force ? You failed to answer ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 25 May 06 - 04:01 AM Eric, the abuse is all coming my way. Thank you for your support, but I hope this thread is not deleted on my account. It only hurts those who make the false accusations. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 25 May 06 - 03:49 AM "this guy" gives the sources he drew on, mostly Republican publications. Yes, the IRA had very few members. They were utterly out of touch with ordinary Irish people. I have nothing to say about area bombing of cities, except that it was appalling. How dare you call me an anti Irish bigot. Back up your slander with examples, or withdraw. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Dave Hanson Date: 25 May 06 - 03:46 AM Will someone [ Joe ? ] please kill this thread, we really can do without all this personal abuse etc. eric the red AKA Dave Hanson |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 25 May 06 - 03:41 AM Such a load of twat this guy has written above. Why would the I.R.A. not support Britain ? I wonder why ? After all it did on her people for hundreds of years. There was more support for Hilter in Britain than Ireland ! Sir Oswald Mosley had more members than the I.R.A.! Arthur bomber Harris did a clean up Keith on German women and children in dresden, what's your views on that ? Keith a well known anti- Irish bigot. You have some hang up friend. Seek help. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 25 May 06 - 03:08 AM Thank God for the bravery men like Sweeney's uncles who stood up against such wickedness. And shame on him for dishonouring them on this thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 25 May 06 - 03:03 AM I sense that many will doubt what I say. Here is a piece by a professor of Irish History at NUI in Maynooth. Those who see the IRA through rose tinted glass prepare to be shocked. Especially on the subject of Jew Cleansing. Following the fall of France, Russell urged that the German high command make use of the IRA to strike at British forces in Northern Ireland as part of a general attack on Britain. His plans were accepted and incorporated into Operation Sealion (the plan for the invasion of Britain), a mark of the 'respect and esteem' in which Russell was held by the German military leadership. During August Russell was to return to Ireland to oversee the implementation of these plans, but on his journey home by U-boat he became ill and died. His body was buried at sea with full German naval honours. The above information comes not from one of Russell's many critics, eager to paint him as a collaborator with the Nazis, but from the republican newspaper The United Irishman of October 1951. The article was published to coincide with the unveiling of a monument to Russell in Dublin's Fairview Park and concluded that he was a 'worthy successor to Tone and Casement'. Quite apart from that questionable assessment, what is notable about the article is the utter lack of embarrassment that the leader of the IRA was a guest of the Nazis during a period in which the German armies invaded and forcibly occupied five sovereign nations. However, in July 1940 the IRA leadership issued a statement outlining its position on the war. The statement made clear that if 'German forces should land in Ireland, they will land . . . as friends and liberators of the Irish people'. The public was assured that Germany desired neither 'territory nor . . . economic penetration' in Ireland but only that it should play its part in the 'reconstruction' of a 'free and progressive Europe'. The Third Reich was also praised as the 'energising force' of European politics and the 'guardian' of national freedom. In response to critics such as George Bernard Shaw, who had drawn attention to Hitler's anti-Catholic policies, the IRA countered that both 'Herr Hitler and Signor Mussolini' proved their lack of bias by helping to establish the 'Catholic government' of Franco in Spain. The IRA's statements drew angry responses from Irish Freedom, published by the Connolly Association, and Irish Workers Weekly, published by the Communist Party of Ireland, who criticised the IRA for inviting 'German soldiers to come and devastate the country they talk of freeing'. These papers also noted how the IRA and their 'strange bedfellow General O'Duffy' were lauding as 'liberators' powers that held 'Abyssinia, Austria, Albania and Czechoslovakia' in subjection. War News, the IRA's main publication, became increasingly pro-Nazi in tone, even claiming active IRA involvement in the German bombing of British cities. But more chillingly it began to ape anti-Semitic arguments. Satisfaction was expressed that the 'cleansing fire' of the German armies was driving the Jews from Europe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 25 May 06 - 02:59 AM Yes Guest, Neutral Ireland did all that and more to help. It was the Quislings of the IRA who sought to bring the Stormtroopers to Erin. Freedom fighters Guest? The Nazis were not known for bringing freedom to the lands they occupied. The SS and the Gestapo would have been more than worthy successors to the Tans. Had IRA had its way it is you who would be speaking German. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 24 May 06 - 09:22 PM Did U Know.... That Neutral Ireland locked up 30,000 Nazi spies during The Emergency, and let captured British soldiers 'escape' over the Border to NI? In fact, Keith, if it wasn't for us, you'd be speaking German. Nice thought isn't it? And unre-writeable. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Alba Date: 24 May 06 - 07:48 PM Aye Divis. My thoughts are with you on the passing of your Dear Friend. May he rest, as he lived. In Peace. Jude |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Divis Sweeney Date: 24 May 06 - 07:36 PM Have to agree with you Alba. I left it yesterday for two reasons. One because it simply became ridiculous and the other I had to attend a house of a friend who died. He had served 16 years in an English prison for a crime he did not commit. The British goverment accepted he was wrongly convicted along with five other Irishmen. One thing I did find though on this thread was the fact I thought I knew some members, sadly my judgement was wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Alba Date: 24 May 06 - 07:25 PM This Thread is one of the saddest I have read on the Mudcat in a while. Heartbreaking actually. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 24 May 06 - 06:34 PM Guest, I think it is time for your medication. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Dave the Gnome Date: 24 May 06 - 06:29 PM Still not sent me your address, ard. I'm waiting to book a flight! Or do you hate me too much? :D (tG) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 24 May 06 - 04:18 PM From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 22 May 06 - 07:41 AM No problem. We are always prtrayed as the villains when Hollywood rewrites history. Rewrites history ? Yeah this guy really speaks the truth ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 24 May 06 - 04:15 PM European governing body Uefa has threatened to ban English teams from Europe if there is anymore crowd trouble. Home Office figures released in April showed a 19% rise in football-related offences in the past season. In a period marred by violence since England's Euro 2004 qualifier match with Turkey, 4,793 people have been arrested compared with 4,035 the year before, the Home Office said. Nearly half of arrests at international games. Roll on the World Cup ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 24 May 06 - 04:09 PM Could this be true ? England has worst crime rate in world By David Bamber, Home Affairs Correspondent Telegraph England and Wales have the highest crime rate among the world's leading economies, according to a new report by the United Nations. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 24 May 06 - 04:06 PM These guys are all high ! England cannabis capital of Europe 40% of teenagers and 9% of adults have smoked cannabis 40% of teenagers and 9% of adults have smoked cannabis More cannabis is smoked in England and Wales by both adults and teenagers than in any other country in the European Union. The use of ecstasy, amphetamines and LSD in England and Wales is also higher than anywhere else in the EU. Europe's drug monitoring agency also says teenage schoolchildren in England and Wales have the worse drugs record. Across all age groups more people were found to have used cannabis in England and Wales in the last 12 months than in any other country. The European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction agency, based in Lisbon, has more damning statistics for England and Wales. More school children have abused solvents than in any other EU country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 24 May 06 - 03:55 PM ard mhacha. Just Googled John McGuffin, wow ! Can see why these guys are so defensive. Internment camps, before that concentration camps in which Britain killed 27 000 Boer women and children(24000) during the Second War of Independence (1899 - 1902) today still have far-reaching effects on the existence of the Boerevolk. Keith, paramilitaries or freedom fighters ? Read what ard mhacha told you to. Your blind and so narrow minded and one of the worst bigots I ever met, seek help. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: ard mhacha Date: 24 May 06 - 03:53 PM Drummer boy and the rest of the class of no-nothings, when will the penny finally drop that slobbering on about your brave boys here without the slighest knowledge of what went on over the past 30 years. Did any of you care to dip in the waters and read John McGuffin`s books, are you frightened of learning the truth?. I see you have just won the European bobby prize for having the worst record of street violence, that beats football, although we still have the World Cup to come, as usual you will again show the world your bloated beer bellied thugs, what a country, hated throughout Europe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Big Al Whittle Date: 24 May 06 - 02:42 PM really you could start a whole new thread...nauseating Irish stereotypes in cinema history from The Quiet Man to Gangs of New York.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 24 May 06 - 02:36 PM No Guest. My only hang up is with the paramilitaries. Search my posts as far back as you like you will find NO anti irish sentiments expressed EVER. Happy hunting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Big Al Whittle Date: 24 May 06 - 01:41 PM and as for those nauseating gits dancing round below decks on the Titanic with Leonardo de Caprio......I almost felt sorry for the iceberg having to bump into them.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 24 May 06 - 01:09 PM Keith your hang up with the Irish on this site is legendary, at least admit it man. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Dave the Gnome Date: 24 May 06 - 12:49 PM OK - I admit it. The English are a set of drunken louts who live only to drink and fight. Our army is the worst in the world and every single man jack of us is anti-Irish. I can't wait to leave this hole of depravity behind and settle in a good civilised country that has no criminal element, no drug dealing, no violence and no drunkeness. Can you send me your address, ard, and meet me at the nearest airport this time tomorrow. I'm out of here. Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Big Al Whittle Date: 24 May 06 - 12:45 PM oh come on Keith - everybody's anti Irsh now and then. We're talking about the country that gave us Ian Paisley, Daniel O'Donnel, Terry bloody wogan, those bagpipe things that nobody in England can play - or perhaps they and they really sound like that, ballykissangel....... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 24 May 06 - 12:23 PM We have also been accused of being anti Irish. I challenge and defy you to show hypocrisy or anti Irishness in any post so far. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Big Al Whittle Date: 24 May 06 - 12:14 PM in what way are we hypocrites. most people are exactly saying what we mean. if you don't like our company, sod off somewhere where you like it better.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: ard mhacha Date: 24 May 06 - 11:52 AM A few bad apples my ass, the soldiers that your government sent over here were the dregs, otherwise if they weren`t, then your country is in serious trouble, and further proof is shown almost daily on TV of the young drunken rabble that inhabit your streets. If any of you would Google, John McGuffin and read his two books , The Guinea Pigs and Iternnment you will get an education on how your soldiers behaved on the streets of the north of Ireland. This is an abject lesson on learning from history, although sadly the British government have never learned. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 24 May 06 - 09:38 AM I would add that soldiers always make bad policemen. At least they have gone now that PIRA has announced an end of hostilities. If only that had happened 25 years ago. As for Sweeney's honest declaration, I have tried not to be quick to judge, Guest, and to have an open mind, but it is hard to understand how he can be ashamed of his war hero uncles, because they fought against Hitler. Especially as we now have the benefit of hindsight and history to show us how evil his regime was and what it planned for us. Should they have gone to be concentration camp guards? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: GUEST Date: 24 May 06 - 05:13 AM At least the guy above has shown he has principles, disregarding that these were family members or not. I admire honesty and despise hypocrisy. Sadly something most of the other posters suffer from. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Dave the Gnome Date: 24 May 06 - 05:09 AM I do learn quite a lot, WLD, and have on one topic changed my stance. I used to be of the opinion that the publication of some Irish rebel songs was quite insulting and hurtful to the British peoples in general and not appropriate when attrocities were still happening on both sides of the fence. I have, though discourse and listening to some of the good representatives of the Nationalist cause, tempered that view. Although some of the songs do refer to cowardly Brits and bastard Brits and so on they are only reflecting a strong feeling and are a good record of what went on at the time. Moreover, having visited Ireland and listened to these songs on their own ground, so to speak, I now know there is nothiong personal in it. They are the songs of people fighting against oppresion and in war feelings do run high. Like ard mhachas feelings that the British Army are the scum of the earth, which brought me here in the first place. I can understand that feeling but, though a flaw in my own personality, I feel obliged to point out that I do not believe that to be true. No more than I believe a gun or a knife is inherantly evil. It is the wielder of the tool that is at fault. Not the tool itself. The army is a tool of the government. A good army and good soldiers do whatever their masters tell them. These soldiers did what they were told so rather than being the scum of the earth I feel they were particulary good soldiers. If there is evidence that some of these were working outside their brief then fair enough, they were indeed bad soldiers. I am sure that every barrel has one or two bad apples but I still that that the bald statement about the 'Army' being scum needs lots of qualification! I don't think I have any more to add to this thread, apart from to say I am looking forward to seeing the film. And, to Divis, I will keep you posted as to my progress with my Grandads post military record. Thanks again. Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: ard mhacha Date: 24 May 06 - 05:01 AM Ken Barrett, Britian`s hired murderer was whisked off from prison to a secret hideaway in England were he can live out the rest of his life on his generous allowance for doing Britain`s dirty work. But he would be wise to watch his back, now that he is of no further use to his former employers, they won`t hesitate to do to him what he did to innocent Catholics. This is only one episode in the vast array of dirty deeds committed by loyalist gangs at the behest of the British government. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley From: Big Al Whittle Date: 24 May 06 - 04:16 AM Either way people think what they think, it's only different ways of coping with reality. And everyone's entitled to their thoughts. |
