BS: Film: The Wind That Shakes The Barley

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 06 - 11:29 PM

Gratitude indeed for the clarity that can be attained when a person reads a statement that does not contain hypocrisy but honesty. The person is rewarded by being offered an insight to the depth of feeling and truth behind the words. An expression of Thanks is the least that should be given in return.
Then again, sadly, some people may have selective reading skills due to a mind that is closed and as a result will lack the capacity for empathy, education or understanding.
A mind that is closed and quick to judge deserves to be fed pity rather than truth.

Bíonn dhá insint ar scéal agus dhá leagan déag ar amhrán!

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: GUEST,the real me
Date: 23 May 06 - 09:30 PM

"My fathers two brothers were decorated pilots in that war, both so called Irishmen. Both not worthly of that title. I did not acknowledge them in life for it, and I have no wish to do so in death. Two embarrassments."

Thanks for this - it clarifies my view of Irish republicanism.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 May 06 - 04:31 PM

There's this wonderful piece of schtick Lenny Bruce used to do, something like:-

I'm from New York. Let me tell ya, corruptions no big deal. In New York, we grow up with it. Everybody's corrupt. the cops are corrupt, the politicians, the newspapers...... When i was a kid, I figured I was probably corrupt as well.

what Im trying to say is, let's take it as a given, everybody is corrupt

I believe the catholics have a phrase for it, they call it original sin.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 06 - 03:17 PM

In Ireland's decades-long conflict against oppression and occupation by the British government, much controversy has arisen from the fact that British authorities have conspired with loyalist and Protestant paramilitaries to kill Nationalist and Catholic civilians.

Although collusion was at first denied, evidence before the courts proved its existence.

Many investigations into cases of collusion are at this time underway; many more will reach the public in the very near future.

Welcome to a world of spies and a corrupt British army and Ulster police force. Government crimes against civilians, of conspiracy, murder and more.

This is what Keith finds acceptable.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 May 06 - 02:41 PM

I wonder if anyone has ever actually changed an opinion or a position, after one of these heated exchanges.

At some point the positions will have to change if we are to progress to a period of peace and friendship, between our nations.

For the sake of Englishmen and Irishmen as yet unborn, we should get to it. And stop worrying about the Black and Tans.....

we have a democracy. theoretically we can make our rulers DO WHat WE LIKE.

I've heard both sides call each other scum, theres nothing new or interesting in that. If you want us to change English policy -try explaining what you want us to do that will make things better. Preferably without calling any of us scum.

Personally I'm a bit pissed off with the wind that shakes the barley and cools nobody's porridge even.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 May 06 - 02:23 PM

I think that most were PIRA, but it applied to all paramilitaries.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: GUEST,Boston Boy
Date: 23 May 06 - 02:20 PM

Where the other killers armed and in collusion with the British too ?
Would like to hear more viewpoints on this collusion business.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 May 06 - 02:09 PM

That killer was given 20 years.
Like other killers he was released early under the terms
of the Good Friday agreement.
I don't like it either, but it was the price of peace.






















l













































l

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: ard mhacha
Date: 23 May 06 - 01:49 PM

The British Army that invaded our towns and villages were the scum of the earth,the dregs of the gutter, I have encountered these uniformed football thugs.
I only wish the boot was on the other foot and a squad of uniformed paddies had some of our brave Brits spreadeagled against a wall while having great amusement in digging their rifle butts in to your ribs, a taste of this treatment wouldn`t endear you to the invading army.
Also this was minor in relation to the arming and collusion with the UDA UVF and other Protestant paramilitaries,who went about their murdering business at will, safe in the knowledge that their Brit masters would turn a blind eye.

One of the Brit hired murderers was released from jail to-day after serving 3 years for the murder of Belfast Soliciter Pat Finucane, collusion with Protestant paramilitaries will come back to haunt you.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 06 - 11:59 AM

and the anonymous shit stirrers...

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 06 - 11:54 AM

See the anti Irish have arrived again !

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 23 May 06 - 11:43 AM

Okay Keith large numbers of decent Irishmen fought for King and Country. My fathers two brothers were decorated pilots in that war, both so called Irishmen. Both not worthly of that title. I did not acknowledge them in life for it, and I have no wish to do so in death. Two embarrassments.

Your right again greg, we are the real bastards in all of this.
Should look into our history more.

Understood and accepted Dave.

Black and Tans did a great job on us.
British army 1969- only doing a job.
British government policy in Ireland, very fair.

Right any other Irish misdemeanors we have missed here that you require an apology for ???????????????????

Teribus hasn't arrived yet and joined your little group, but to preempt it, sorry to him too.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: greg stephens
Date: 23 May 06 - 10:27 AM

Divis Sweeney anger is true and admirable. His history, though, is something else. He generally simplifies things down to "the British(or sometimes "the English") invaded us 800 years ago". But he did actually point out a rather crucial fact a way back, that the B@T atrocities were largely committed by digruntled Scottish ex-squaddies. He would do well to remember that the Irish invaded Scotland(and were never expelled by the locals) 1500 years ago. They took over the majority(but by no means the whole of the country(you can track this quite easily by looking at the areas where the place names are Gaelic/Irish). Till quite recently, the lowland Scottish referred to the Highlanders and Islanders, and their language, as "Irish"...they had a long memory, this description was pretty accurate. Ths division was made much worse from the 17th century civil wars on, when there was a rough division in Scotland into Catholics(the Gaels) and Protestants(largely Lowland). This is a crude description of course, there were anomalies. For example,the Campbells(Gaels /Irish from Argyll) went Protestant and allied with the Edinburgh protestant government against the minority Catholic Jacobites, but by and large the Catholic/Protestant or Irish/Scots split remained.
    These bits of history, as well as the Anglo-Norman direct invasion of ireland, need to be considered seriously when people attempt to solve current problems. The English have short memories. The Irish and Scots have long memories. This has consequences now. I am neither one of the three, i try to take a more detached view.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 06 - 10:27 AM

What should we have done, roll over and lay down ?

Sorry that isn't in me. Not that kind of guy.

Divis, I wouldn't like you any other way:-) Me neither. Probably why I can't help myself when I see what I view as inaccurate statements;-)

I am not disputing anything you have said at all - Just taking ard mhacha to task about the use of the term 'scum of the earth' to generalise about the army. I don't think they are but accept that some people see them as such. Just as I accept that some people will always see that 'All coppers are bastards'.

I don't think it does anyones cause, or the flow of the argument, any good to generalise or resort to simple name calling. It just invites similar from the other side. And you have already felt what an escalation of bad feeling can end up like:-(

Would ard's message not have been more effective if it contained exactly the same words without the 'scum of the earth' statement? Don't you think that was just a knee-jerk gining the opposition carte blanche to respond in kind?

Just my views and not much to do with the argument in question realy. But, like yourself, when I see something I believe to be wrong I am not a roll over and die type of guy!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 May 06 - 10:14 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emergency

I did read it and I would not say he was questioning it.

This Wikipedia piece puts it at 43,000.

What are the figures you say you have?

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 23 May 06 - 10:04 AM

If you care to read that report by Geoff Rodgers, which isn't credible by the standards of most historians, you will see he uses the term, if at all accurate. Yes he's questioning it too !

Waiting on an answer as to what you would have done if another country invaded your land, or did you not see the question ???

Dave The British invaded Ireland, we did not invite them. They came to Command & Conquer. What should we have done, roll over and lay down ?

Sorry that isn't in me. Not that kind of guy.

Keith calls me a terrorist because I would not accept those he admires greatly, coming over to terrorize me and my people. Give me a break.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 May 06 - 09:36 AM

And another 50,000 from the North.

Yes England started the war against Hitler.
I think that was the right thing to do, as did those tens of thousands of Irish men.

The IRA sided with Hitler's Nazis.
I think that was shameful.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 06 - 09:34 AM

Regarding the British army here in the North of Ireland during the troubles, they certainly left a lastly mark on me. Scars.

I know it's only words, Divis, and I would be the last to play semantics - Honest! But saying that the British Army left it's scars on you does not do either you or the Britsh Army justice.

That some evil bastards in the British Army kicked the crap out of you - Yes. That someone higher up the chain not only ignored that act but actively condoned it - Yes. But to tar them all with the same brush is a bit like the way the local yobs consider that all policemen are bastards!

I am not sure quite how to put what I mean but if you have to blame anyone blame the politico's. The soldiers, like the local plods, were just doing a job. That they played dirty at times is not in doubt but in war, which this was considered to be by both sides, shit happens. The difference between the squaddie putting the boot in and the provo setting the timer is a question of justification.

That your side was more justified than the soldiers is a different argument altogether. That the soldiers justification had official sanction is much more a reflection on his bosses than on himself.

I think!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 May 06 - 09:18 AM

http://www.reform.org/TheReformMovement_files/article_files/articles/war.htm

An estimated 70,000 volunteers from neutral Irish Republic served with British forces in WW2

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 23 May 06 - 09:00 AM

So the only Irishmen worth a toss are those that fought for Britian in the war the English started and the Americans ended.

Regarding this line, Irishmen flocking to England and the North in their tens of thousands to fight for Britain.

Check those figures again and re write it. I have the figures, seeing you are so sure of them I will allow you to list them.

Regarding the British army here in the North of Ireland during the troubles, they certainly left a lastly mark on me. Scars.

The bottom line is no matter how you wish to dress it up, Britain invaded Ireland and beat her people into the ground for eight hundred years. Are you defending that ????????????????????????

No you clearly attack those Irishmen that fought to protect and defend their homes and called us criminals for doing so.

Tell me what you would have done ????????????????????????

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 May 06 - 08:44 AM

Ray Bennet, Cannes Hollywood reporter said in his revue...

The British in the film are nameless cardboard villains used mainly to establish just how horribly occupying forces behave. It's such a common device to make audiences root for the rebels that Loach and screenwriter Paul Laverty might have been cleverer about it. But it works,

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 06 - 08:42 AM

I strongly sympathise with what you are saying, ard mhacha, but calling the soldiers scum of the earth does not help your cause at all. I am sure some of them were. I am sure some of them were positively angelic by comparison. I am equaly sure that the vast majority, like the vast majority of people everywhere, lay somewhere in between. Blame the government by all means. Blame the situation. Blame me if you like. But calling the ordinary squaddie the scum of the earth does not help anyone.

Kipling put it far better than me.

It's Tommy this and Tommy that and Tommy go away,
But it's "Thank you Mr Atkins" when the band begins to play..."

BTW (for a second time) - The song I sing of this title is a different one to the onle detailed above.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 May 06 - 08:39 AM

They were just the army Ard
The same army that stood against the fascist junta forces in the Falklands, and with US and Nato stood against the Warsaw Pact armies of 60s 70s and 80s
Some were scum and some were saints.

The revulsion at the Black and Tans in the 20s did not stop decent Irishmen flocking to England and the North in their tens of thousands to fight for Britain against the Nazis, even though the IRA openly sisded with them.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: ard mhacha
Date: 23 May 06 - 07:33 AM

Keith the Brits have a problem learning from history, the soldiers they sent here from the early 1970s were the scum of the earth.
It has now been proven that the British government colluded with the Protestant paramilitaries,they armed them and sent them out to kill Catholics irespective of them being involved with the IRA.

Do yourself a favour Keith and take your friends along to see this film, and it could be, that all of you can learn from history and not to continue making the same mistakes.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Paul Burke
Date: 23 May 06 - 06:57 AM

No, Keith. It was the gerrymandered partition of Ireland in 1922 that created the IRA. It also created backward Catholic Ireland that they are only just beginning to get over, the Orange order as the respectable face of terrorism, and the excisemen of either side who tax the drug dealers of their respective areas- they needed to raise money, just as the State raises it by the tax on alcohol. So a long time ago is still going on.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 May 06 - 06:26 AM

I do not defend or justify the atrocities committed by the Black And Tans.
I agree with the likes of Divis Sweeney on that.
Unlike him I also abhor the atrocities committed by the various paramilitary groups.
Now a film that focused on the bestial activities of say, the IRA would be controversial, but who would make it?
The Black And Tans were stood down long ago.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 May 06 - 05:38 AM

Robert Dwyer Joyce methinks, a fine song which Ken Loach must have had in mind.

Ken Loach is never afraid to be controversial, if telling the truth can be called controversial, I can acknowledge the truth of the Black and Tans.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 22 May 06 - 08:03 PM

I sat within the valley green, I sat me with my true love
My sad heart strove the two between, the old love and the new love
The old for her, the new that made me think on Ireland dearly
While soft the wind blew down the glen and shook the golden barley

'Twas hard the woeful words to frame to break the ties that bound us
But harder still to bear the shame of foreign chains around us
And so I said, "The mountain glen I'll seek at morning early
And join the bold united men, while soft winds shake the barley"

While sad I kissed away her tears, my fond arms round her flinging
The foeman's shot burst on our ears from out the wildwood ringing
A bullet pierced my true love's side in life's young spring so early
And on my breast in blood she died while soft winds shook the barley

But blood for blood without remorse I've taken at Oulart Hollow
And laid my true love's clay cold corpse where I full soon may follow
As round her grave I wander drear, noon, night and morning early
With breaking heart when e'er I hear the wind that shakes the barley

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Folkiedave
Date: 22 May 06 - 07:54 PM

I sat me in the valley green I sat me with me true love.
And sad my thoughts were torn between the old love and the new love.
The old was her the new hat made me think of Ireland dearly,
And sad the wind blew down the glen and shook the golden barley.

Fabulous tune - probably my favourite of all time.

Is what I remember.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: GUEST
Date: 22 May 06 - 07:41 PM

The Black and Tans And the Auxilaries

In case our overseas members have not heard of this brave British force here is a short account of them.

The British government, hired former World War I soldiers residing in Britain to 'police' Ireland. This new force arrived in 1920. Because of the shortage of uniforms, the new police were given a mix of army khaki and RIC dark green, and so they became known to the public as the 'Black and Tans'.

Later, ex-army officers were recruited into another force known as the Auxilaries. The new forces were exceptionally ruthless in their methods. The Black and Tans reacted to any IRA attack by terrorising ordinary people, usually women and children.

A strict curfew was enforced and if they suspected someone of being an IRA member they were often executed on capture.

Houses, shops and creameries were burned and ordinary people were taken hostage or beaten. These 'policemen' often used local people, priests and young girls, as human shields as they patrolled the countryside in convoys of trucks. This terror, intended to undermine support for the IRA, had the opposite effect.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 May 06 - 04:15 PM

Come to think of it, theres not a lot of credit given to the Deaths Head Flower Arranging Squadron of the SS. the floral arrangements at the Nuremberg Rally were something else.

I had a weird experience at the weekend. I was doing this gig at Belvoir Castle Folk Weekend in Rutland, and I found myself in a room I hadn't been in for nearly 50 years. I used to be taken there as a day out with my cousin Bernard as a day out. And we loved this room - all one side of it beautifully maintained rows of muskets. The other wall had swords of all kinds - arranged in circles - sabres, claymoors, daggers.

I think me and Bernard hoped one day the Duke of Rutland would pass by and fix us up with a spare couple of flintlock pistols and a dagger each.

Anyway, usual sort of festival scene - a gang of morris dancers waiting to go on, some bloke at the other end hoping to move us to tears with the Fields of Athenry.

Out of interest, I asked the curator lady, what is the provenance of all these arms - what are they doing in an 19th century ornamental castle in the middle of the quitest shire in England - surely never a shot has been fired round here except at the grouse.

Oh the Duke of Rutland, she told me, he raised a regiment in Napoleonic times to fight in Ireland........these are the guns they used.

Suddenly it occurred to me, my family and Bernards would have been the sharp of those bayonets and cutlasses - that we so lusted after as little boys.

low lie the Fields of athenry....right mate!

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: GUEST
Date: 22 May 06 - 04:06 PM

ae fond kiss.....now there is a very good film by the great Ken Loach who is a member of Respect the left wing anti war party.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 22 May 06 - 03:11 PM

Can't recall any stories about the Tans doing any social work Greg. Know they did some dental and orthopedic work though.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 22 May 06 - 03:08 PM

Dear Dave
Hope all's well with you. If you go to /www.nationalarchives.gov.uk or go to The Imperial War museum, they will supply you a list of researchers who will do the search for you for around a fiver. www.iwm.org.uk
Give the researcher as much information as you can, such as full name, regiment if known, number if known and place of birth. A lot of the World War One records were destroyed during the Blitz, but you may be surprised what these guys can turn up.

I got a guy to do mine, he was a student who like many advertised and this gave him an income, sorry can't remember his name now.

Good luck with it.

They came to Ireland in March 1920. All were ex soldiers, mostly Scottish. The Welsh came home to the mines, the English to ship building and the mills. Unemployment was the highest in Scotland, and records show so was alcoholism. The records I got sent over was for a soldier who's WW1 medal trio I had and with it was his service records whilst serving in the force. I was unaware he was a Tan. The records recorded he faced several charges for drunkeness whilst on duty and two for fighting with other men on his patrol, there mustn't have been any Irish about that night !

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 May 06 - 02:53 PM

Presumably there were some nice Tans as well as the thugs, much like other armies. Occupying colonial forces never get a very good press from history, though, do they? Thoughtful novels about decent Tans doing social work among the poor Irish dont tend to get written, do they? As always, alas, the atrocities of the Tans pale into insignficance when the Civil War started. The course of events after the French revolution and the Russian revolution were followed closely. The overthrow (moderately violent) of a repressive government, followed by a seriously horrifying brother against brother situation after. I look forward to seeing this film, though a balanced historical view is not what we get from Ken Loach. He comes from the redhaired frecklefaced colleen school of stereotypes, which makes a good story of course.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 May 06 - 02:37 PM

BTW - What caught my eye about the thread is that I sing "the wind that shakes the barley" and thought it may have been a thread about that - Funny old co-incidence init!

:D

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 May 06 - 02:35 PM

Interesting about the records office, Divis - Can you send me details either through here or a PM?

My Mother reckoned her Dad was a Tan - Which I find hard to believe to be honest. He was wounded twice in WW1 and barely fit to do a days work at times let alone be part of that crew. Besides which he was always a decent law abiding chap - French galantry medal for rescuing a young girl from a well while on active service in France. On top of all that his his maternal grandfather was from Gallway! Name of Hart if that means anything to anyone?

Perhaps if the records are now available we can complete the picture. We have his military service record from 1914 to 1919 but nothing after.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 22 May 06 - 01:50 PM

Brought to Ireland by Winston Churchill. Maybe Churchill wanting to shoot the striking miners in Britain would make a good film ??

The Tans have a drunken history whilst in Ireland besides a murderous one. You should read their service records which are now available through the military records office. Not one was charged with the murder of an Irish man. I lived through the period of their predecessors.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 May 06 - 01:27 PM

a Cider and Guiness can do pretty nasty things.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Alba
Date: 22 May 06 - 01:12 PM

Sorry Al. I have to disagree with ye.
Keith's remarks are based on a mind set that he makes no attempt to disguise here.

The Ken Loach Film 'My name is Joe' is a film close to my heart.
It is a hard film.
Some stories will have to be told more than once over the Years.
Some History can't be forgotten because without examining it we cannot see where we have come from.

Just as aside I asked a young fella who had asked me for a particular Song at gig, not all that long ago, if he knew who the Black and Tans were....he had no clue.

Hollywood didn't supply the money for this production and while I would like to believe that the poster of the sentence I remarked on was not coming from his usual stance, I have to say that some unsavory facts about one's Country's History are best accepted and acknowledged because that way we learn how to never repeat those mistakes again and possibly, just possibly may even find a way out of a cicle of Hate.

Again Ill say,
Thank you for the info Eric.
Ken Loach is, imo, a fine Director. I look forward to seeing the Film.
I will be sure to let ye all know what I thought of it when I do.

Jude

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 May 06 - 12:42 PM

I know what Keith means, and you should too.

Ken Loach gives the low down on what a bunch of bastards the the Black and Tans were.

It's a bit formulaic, like all these gits in the folk clubs who keep writing about the first world war, as though its some great revelation. Eric Bogle did it nearly thirty years ago, and you get a feeling, we've this one again and again and again and again.

Maybe they can use some of the footage from Titanic of the jolly Oirish before the beastly Brits barge in.

Loach used to be better on contemporary stuff - kes was contemporary once, and raining stones.

The one about the spanish Civil war dragged.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 22 May 06 - 12:40 PM

Alba, It's the typical remark you would expect from him, waste of time expecting anything worth reading, to make a remark such as,

We are always protrayed as the villains when Hollywood rewrites history ?

Why were the Tans or the Auxiliaries, ex alter boys ?

Sorry this is not re writing history, it shows the bastards for what they were.

No doubt you thought they were jolly good lads over to teach us lot a lesson ? Sorry, they left and we stayed.

Come on tell the good deeds the Tans or Auxiliaries did ?????????????

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Alba
Date: 22 May 06 - 11:57 AM

"No problem.
We are always prtrayed as the villains when Hollywood rewrites history."

That statement really urks me.
Maybe the author of the statement would like to give others some idea of the goodness the Black and Tans did and the pride that England has for them?

Now THAT would be rewriting History imo.

Sound like an interesting film Eric.
Ken Loach is a fine Director.

Jude

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: The Shambles
Date: 22 May 06 - 11:37 AM

And if we don't learn from history we'll have no future.

Very true and if we don't learn from history we will find that the past will be re-written.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 May 06 - 09:07 AM

By and large the B&T's weren't nice folks. Neither was the Gestapo or the Kempei Tei or the Operchina or the Stasi or any number of similar organizations.

But every nation seems to have had such an organization at one time or another.

History is what is happened. And if we don't learn from history we'll have no future.

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 May 06 - 09:03 AM

Many of the Black and Tans were recruited straight from prison, where it was a way of getting out of jail early for them. They were the scum of the earth most of them, and were just the sort of person required by the then British government to do their dirty work.
It must be noted however that while they apparently enjoyed it, they were only carrying out orders.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 22 May 06 - 08:48 AM

Ken Loach is a British film director, get it ! remember ' Kes. '

Fuck all to do with Hollywood.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 May 06 - 07:41 AM

No problem.
We are always prtrayed as the villains when Hollywood rewrites history.

Subject: BS: The Wind That Shakes The Barley
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 22 May 06 - 07:33 AM

Just been revued at Cannes the new Ken Loach film, ' The Wind That Shakes The Barley 'it won't be popular in England, it's about the IRA and the true nature and actions of the Black and Tans.

eric