BS: Christian Persecution

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jan 14 - 06:53 AM

None of that is true.
This is the most blatant lie, "your suggestion that Britain could not afford to give immigrant Aids sufferers medical treatment"
Completely made up.
I would never have suugested any such ridiculous thing.

This is what you do Jim.
Whenever you lose, you claim that ancient posts prove me evil, as if that turns the tables.

They do not, because I am not.
They just show that you can not support your views, and try to obfuscate instead.
Debate, don't demonize!

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jan 14 - 06:28 AM

Every display of "humanity"
you have ever shown on this forum has come with evidence of your own inhumanity
Religious persecution - you deny and attempt to stifle discussion on any form of persecution by Christians.
Your 'concern for the citizens of Homs came with a support for the sale of sniper rifle bullets, the support reiterated here) that Assad should be sold riot control gear, and the insistence that the west cannot and should not intervene in any way to stop Assad (including seizing his and his henchmen's property in the UK.
This was later followed up with the sale of chemicals capable of manufacturing weapons to Syria was "as harmless as selling toothpaste"
Your support for Israel is counter-balanced by your describing British anti-fascists as "harmless" when Jews were going into extermination ovens in their millions and the very nutters you were defending were passing out anti-Semitic tracts while at the same time attempting to put together an alternative British government should Hitler win (as they declared they hoped he would)
Homophobia - your insistence on being anti was offset by your suggestion that Britain could not afford to give immigrant Aids sufferers medical treatment.
As I said, their's a library of your humanitarian pearls of wisdom to choose from, should you continue to claim to having a streak of humanity in you.
Keep it coming
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jan 14 - 04:53 AM

You have supported proven phony figures from an extremist site to back your hatred and have openly lied about your claimed verification of those phony figures (you ended up admitting you checked two, even though you claimed "many" and supported "all").

I did check many, when it first appeared, but did not keep notes.
When you brought it up later I checked two more at random for you.

You denied the evidence that the first five cases on your extremist list had no verifiable connection with religious persecution, even though it was within your power to prove otherwise (you obviously checked them - who wouldn't - and found this to be the case, yet you still continued to deny the facts)

You have provided no evidence.
I do not believe that you found any fault, or you would have produced it.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jan 14 - 04:48 AM

of your screaming psychotic hatred
peddle your hatred of Muslims.
your argument for putting the Syrian people into the hands of a war criminal mass murderer and torturer.
spectacular display of inhumanity
you use this forum as a cultural and race hate platform.
you are evil; no question

You are incapable of rationality about me Jim.
You are deranged.
You are obsessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jan 14 - 04:30 AM

"It is not "disgusting" to care about persecution"
Far from caring, once again it has been necessary for members of this forum to stop you from using the fate of persecuted human beings to peddle your hatred of Muslims.
You are using the fate of persecuted Christians as a platform for your hatred, in exactly the same way as you used the murder of a soldier in London and the massacre of the people of Homs to show that all Muslims are "implanted" with something or other to make them crazed killers.
You have continued to advocate that Assad should be supplied with equipment to subdue his people and lock them away, and once again have dredged the internet until you found a tiny group on the other side of the world to (apparently) back up your argument for putting the Syrian people into the hands of a war criminal mass murderer and torturer.
The depth of your 'humanity' is such that you have sneered at and denied the persecution of by Christian churches on their own belivers and have fought tooth-and-nail to have it censored from this discussion.
You have denied the power that religion has over States by suggesting that "if we didn't like it we should move elsewhere" - or words to that effect.
You have put the fact that clerical rape victims and women who died because the religious influence over their state down to "fear of the priest" and claimed that no such influence exists, even though case after case has been put to you.
You have supported proven phony figures from an extremist site to back your hatred and have openly lied about your claimed verification of those phony figures (you ended up admitting you checked two, even though you claimed "many" and supported "all").
You denied the evidence that the first five cases on your extremist list had no verifiable connection with religious persecution, even though it was within your power to prove otherwise (you obviously checked them - who wouldn't - and found this to be the case, yet you still continued to deny the facts)
Your unbelievably hate-filled behaviour here as left us with enough evidence of your screaming psychotic hatred to keep us warm for several winters to come.
Please continue to supply it - "every little helps"
A word of comfort - your one success here is to have managed to drag someone I once believed to be a decent and intelligent human being down to your level - well done for that.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jan 14 - 04:27 AM

Andrew Bennet, Canada's Ambassador For Religious Freedom.
"We see that there has been an increasing targeting of Christians," said Andrew Bennett. "I think Christians throughout the Middle East are very concerned about the impact of various violent acts - either government-sponsored or sponsored by radicals - are having on their numbers, with Christians fleeing their historic countries where they've lived for the better part of 2,000 years."

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jan 14 - 03:41 AM

It is not "disgusting" to care about persecution, whoever the victim.
I am disgusted that you find it so in this case.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jan 14 - 03:11 AM

"They are killed, tortured and driven from their homes, but it does not matter to you."
Piss off Keith
You have been given good advice by your Guru - I suggest you take it before you gig yourself in deeper.
Your behaviour on this thread has been a spectacular display of inhumanity and will serve as an example as such for many years to come.
Try and kick yourself of the obvious addiction of having the last word and let this disgusting thread die.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jan 14 - 02:15 AM

So Jim and Troubadour, you just don't care.
No compassion or pity for people in misery.

You cite History to absolve you from any such counter-revolutionary emotions.
These are among the poorest people in the world.
They have no knowledge of your History, never mind responsibility for it.

They are killed, tortured and driven from their homes, but it does not matter to you.
Nothing needs be done.
No sanctions or withholding aid to any regimes who refuse to protect their minorities.
This minority deserves its fate.
Freedom of belief?
Bourgeois bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Jan 14 - 06:00 PM

he don't know any Christian suicide bombers

Just give it time, Pete - give it time.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 26 Jan 14 - 05:55 PM

I don't think that anyone is denying that the church has done wrong in its history, and may not be blameless now either, but in the current time , I would say that many ordinary believers in many places are being severely persecuted. there may be accounts of Christians persecuting others, but even dawkins has said that he preferred Christianity, lest something worse comes along, and that he don't know any Christian suicide bombers[ not exact quotes]

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jan 14 - 04:45 AM

troubadour, I think West meant West, i.e. Europe.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jan 14 - 03:40 AM

"Christianity has been one long catalogue of forcible suppression and destruction of other religions,"
Not just "other" religions - Christianity has a long, proud history of imprisoning, torturing and burning fellow-Christians for "kicking with the wrong foot".
This has continually fed internecine bloody warfare right up to the present day within the British Isles.
Any religion, by its very nature, brings with it the threat of persecution - to plead a 'special case' for any any single religion is to fuel the flames of religious persecution.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 25 Jan 14 - 07:15 PM

"West pointed out that these communities "were Christian when our ancestors were worshipping trees and stones." Now they are in danger of imminent extinction."

If West made that statement, he merely proved what a bloody ignorant fool he was.

The Egyptians, Greeks and Romans all had very well developed religious systems long before a few dozen Jews decided to follow a Jewish teacher who had some rather good ideas about how things ought to be done.

It wasn't until some 70 - 100 years after that Jewish teacher was executed as a dangerous subversive by the Roman authorities, that Christianity came into being.

Apart from a comparatively short period of resistance by the Romans, the history of Christianity has been one long catalogue of forcible suppression and destruction of other religions, culminating in the latter day internecine war between the various Christian sects.

All of which strongly weighs against current claims of being the most persecuted, unless of course one includes those internecine conflicts.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: bobad
Date: 25 Jan 14 - 10:06 AM

""The near-annihilation of the world's most ancient communities of Christians."

Yeah but Keith, whatabout the poor girls of Ireland who have been denied an abortion.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 14 - 09:09 AM

And you are a spineless fool to dip and out whenever his screaming bigotry lands him in the klarts.
If it is not "vicious" to write off a cultural group as "implanted" potential perverts then we have different understandings of the word.
If it is not "vicious" to propose arming the most oppressively vicious despot with the means of subduing his own people to continue his long-running dynistic dictatorship I am at a total loss to understand your interpretation of the word.
It is utterly stupid of him to openly lie about his own statements....
Where do you go from here
He has chosen this forum to peddle his hate - you have chosen to join him in his campaign.
You are two sides of the same coin - except he has the dubious qualification of determination while you dip in when you believe it is safe to do so and do a runner when you run out of invective.
Feel free to join in whenever you have something to contribute - otherwise butt out while you've only managed to smear yourself with some of is excrement.
The answer to ending this lies in his court - he appears to wish to continue it, driven on, no doubt by his 'last man standing' urge.
I'll be around while he and you use this forum as a cultural and race hate platform.
His choice and yours.
By the way I enjoyed your accusation of by being "an irrational cliché-parroting booby" nearly as much as I enjoyed your calling me a "Jackanapes" way back - gadzooks sir - 'loaded pistols at dawn' sorta stuff, doncha think?
Jim Carroll
Btw.
Don't suppose you'd like to comment on Keith's proposal to arm Assad with riot control equipment - or are you happy for your friend to stick his neck out on your behalf?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Jan 14 - 07:45 AM

Keith ~~ You are a fool to keep on & on provoking the vicious idiot.

Jim ~~ In this particular, you are a fool tout simple.

Michael ~~ You are a fool to stay around on this arsewipe of a thread.

So -- this time really --

Goodbye, thread.

There's another thread refreshed about how someone has to be last on any thread. If any sense anywhere around, this post will be it here.

Anyone holding breath?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Jan 14 - 07:12 AM

Assyrian International News Agency 16 hours ago.

"The near-annihilation of the world's most ancient communities of Christians.

The persecution of Christians throughout the Middle East, as well as the silence with which it has been met in the West, are the subject of journalist Ed West's Kindle Single "The Silence of Our Friends." The booklet is a brisk and chilling litany of horrors: Discriminatory laws, mass graves, unofficial pogroms, and exile. The persecuted are not just Coptic and Nestorian Christians who have relatively few co-communicants in the West, but Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants as well.

Throughout the Middle East the pattern is the same. Christians are murdered in mob violence or by militant groups. Their churches are bombed, their shops destroyed, and their homes looted. Laws are passed making them second-class citizens, and the majority of them eventually leave."

"And yet the Western world is largely ignorant of or untroubled by programmatic violence against Christians. Ed West, citing the French philosopher Regis Debray, distils the problem thusly: "The victims are 'too Christian' to excite the Left, and 'too foreign' to excite the Right."

Church leaders outside the Middle East are afraid to speak out, partly because they fear precipitating more violence. (Seven churches were fire-bombed in Iraq after Pope Benedict XVI quoted an ancient criticism of Islam in an academic speech in Germany.) Oddly, unlike Iran, Saudi Arabia, Israel, and Russia, the U.S. and the U.K. are the only powers acting in the Middle East that do not take any special interest in the safety of those with whom they have a historical religious affinity.

These are the lands in which Jesus' apostles and their disciples made some of the first Christian converts. In an interview, West pointed out that these communities "were Christian when our ancestors were worshipping trees and stones." Now they are in danger of imminent extinction."
http://www.aina.org/news/20140124134452.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 14 - 06:51 AM

O - by the way - you are evil; no question
Go and take a peek at what you've written
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Jan 14 - 06:49 AM

☞〠☜

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 14 - 06:14 AM

Didn't misinterpret it - it wasn't open to misinterpretation
You have never claimed it as a "misinterpretation" - you said you only said it because somebody else told you to, and your present responses show that your opinions remain the same (ony have got a little ,ore revolting as time goes by
I will continue to bring up your past record as long as you insist on using this forum as a hate platform
I haven't even got started yet - lots more to choose from.
You appear to have mis-fired in attempting to grasp your friend's lifeline, congratulations for proving him as big a dissembler as you though.
Today's times reports that 240 people from ethnic groups have been slaughtered by Buddhists.
It also carries the accusation that the lifting of the turban ban in Britain is a sop to the Sikh population to offset the likely damage from the new revelations that the Thatcher Government was secretly involved in the Golden Temple massacre
As I said - they're all at it - Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists...
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Jan 14 - 05:08 AM

Far from this being an "old" argument - it is what you are saying now, on this forum.

Only because you dredged it up from years ago and misrepresented what I said!
Stop doing it.

When you are losing an argument, claiming I am evil by misrepresenting something I said years ago, does not turn you into a winner.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 14 - 04:21 AM

"that post he misunderstood"
Misunderstood - Mike?
He's confirmed that this continues to be his opinion ever since and each time, he's added to it with further revelations.
You really should be ashamed of yourself at allowing yourself to sink to his level (but maybe you were already there and we didn't notice)

You asked for 'Christian persecution – you've got it.
I watched an extremely moving interview with Philomena Lee, the woman whose experiences at the hands of the world's leading Christian church inspired the prize-winning film, 'Philomena'.
As a sixteen year old girl she became pregnant and was taken into care by a group of 'Christian' nuns in a Monaghan convent.
Her son was removed from her against her will and sold to a wealthy American family – she surreptitiously witnessed their taking the child away of the child through the upstairs window of the convent.
Fifty years later she decided to trace her son's whereabouts and approached the Sisters – The mother superior in charge of the sale was still alive and residing at the convent where the sale took place.
The Convent administrators denied all knowledge of her son's whereabouts, (despite the fact that their records contained all the details of the transaction) but agreed to help her.
After a series of attempts on Philomena's part to find her son, with no co-operation whatever from the convent, she was offered assistance by BBC television reporter Martin Sixsmith, who took traced him and took her to the U.S. to find out what had happened to him in the intervening years.
They discovered that he was an important member of staff of the then U.S. President – he had died a few years previously.
On returning to Ireland, she visited the convent, but was still refused information on the details of the sale of her son.
When leaving, they discovered that, terminally ill, he had returned to Ireland to seek out his mother, but was refused help by the nuns
At his request he was buried in the grounds with an inscription carved on his tombstone "so that my mother can find me if she ever wished to".
It transpires that they had only agreed to his burial there if he 'donated' $20,000 to the convent.
The nuns had totally covered up this information throughout her search.
It also transpires that the Catholic (Christian) church, in cahoots with the Irish Government illegally sold over 2,000 children to wealthy America families.
It seems that the Christian churches not only indulge in persecution, but they make a profit from doing so – I don't think I've heard that accusation being levelled at Islam – have you?
Will continue passing on this type of information as it comes up, or until you walk away from it
Jim Carroll

Not sure whether or not this type of "Christian Pesecution" registers on the 'persecution Richter scale' – probably not, as it's only persecution carried out by the Christian Church – not significant enough, I should imagine!

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Jan 14 - 03:38 AM

Yes, I know I said I'd gone. So I'm back. So wotsit 2U?

Why bother, Keith? He is just going to go dragging up that post he misunderstood all those years back, & he won't stop, coz it's become an obsessive compulsion with him. Don't you recognise an OCD when you see one?

The thing is, that rational discusser of folksong, and respected contributor to its history, turns into an irrational cliché-parroting booby whenever his instamatic "I-spot-a-racist" button is pressed — unfortunately an inefficient mechanism that can't actually distingish racism from a hole in the ground. So you had really better just forget it, hadn't you, and leave him to his weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Anyhow, he enjoys it. It's his hobby. Why louse up the poor old fella's pleasure? Just leave him to it, why dontcha?

But I know you won't. You''ll rise & he'll rise & he'll rise & you'll rise [tune Lieber Augustin].

Oh wotza-use! I'm off again.

Ta-ra

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jan 14 - 03:37 AM

"some years old post"
You continue to support your "old" argument and are still claiming that it is permissible to supply the greatest torturer and butcher in the world today, still torturing and butchering, with equipment which has already assisted him in his torture and butchery.
Far from this being an "old" argument - it is what you are saying now, on this forum.
You have also claimed and defended that it wasn't wrong to sell him sniper bullets and the wherewithal to manufacture chemical weapons (admitted by the British Government under pressure and withdrawn, defended by you.
We are discussing religious persecution - you have never ceased in indulging in persecuting those who don't share your Christian views - British and Palestinian Muslims.
Your continuing behaviour has made you Mudcat's sole 'Untouchable' I am delighted that this is the case.
It has also implicated at least one of your supporters who I don't believe to be deserving of being smeared with your insanely wielded slime-brush.
I keep promising myself that I have finished here, but I have to confess I find your revolting and more and more revealing behaviour mesmerising, so I suppose I will go on while you continue to show us what a revolting individual you are.
You want it to stop?
The answer lies in your own hands - go away and stop using Mudcat as a platform for your messages of hate and intolerance.
("World Citizens of Australia Bulletin" - Jay-sus, made my day)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Jan 14 - 02:23 AM

Jim, we disagree on the benefit of non-lethal equipment over the lethal kind.
That does not make either of us a monster.

Why wont you just debate instead of constantly trying to demonize?

As soon as you start to lose you make an outrageous claim that some years old post makes me evil, as if that wins the argument for you!

It just revives years old arguments.
People plead with us to stop, but you keep doing it.

We are discussion religious persecution.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 05:56 PM

With the greatest respect for their ideals -

http://www.worldcitizens.org.au/

Wow
A bit "Loonie left for you, but those qualifications!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 05:35 PM

So you've chosed "World Citizens of Australia Bulletin" to justify tour support for a mass murderer - would you like to tell us who they are and what their qualifications are - maybe thy're "genuine historians" - you get more and more pathetic every time you post
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 05:23 PM

Apocalypse When
The consequences of your and your friends' support of Islamophobic terrorism
From the Irish Times
Jim Carroll   


Capitalising On Fears Of Race And Religion
Lara Marlowe in Paris

The National Front is proving adept at stoking concerns over radical Islam for political gain
The jihadists who leave France to fight the regime of Bashar al Assad in Syria symbol¬ise an Islamist "fifth column" within France, perhaps the most potent of fears associated with immigration. Some of the jihadists, such as JeanDaniel and Nicolas Bons, brothers from Toulouse who died fighting in Syria last year, are Christians who converted to Islam. Their fate gives substance to French paranoia about conta¬gion by radical Islam.
Their father, Gerard Bon, has founded an association to fight the recruitment of young Frenchmen for jihad. The govern¬ment fears that jihadists will return from Syria to carry out attacks in France. So re¬turning veterans are threatened with 15 years in prison for having participated in "terrorism" ironic, since president Fran¬cois Hollande has called for Assad's down¬fall. Bons recounts how his sons told him that the prospect of years in prison dissuad¬ed them from coming home.
French intelligence says 700 French and foreigners living in France are in¬volved in the Syrian jihad; 250 as combat¬ants. On January 19th, interior minister Manuel Vails said "they represent for me the greatest danger we shall have to face in coming years".
Though the government does not break down figures between converts and the children of Arab Muslim immigrants, the latter are more numerous.

French jihadists
They include Sofiane (19), who left his fami¬ly in Roubaix last July. His mother re¬ceived a telephone call two months later saying he'd died near Aleppo. Or Brahim (17), who left for school on the morning of December 18th, then called to tell his par¬ents he was on his way to Syria. Or two 15yearolds who left Toulouse on January 6th, also bound for Syria. The government says 21French jihadists have died, and that a dozen of the hundreds who've departed for Syria are minors.
Asked about French jihadists earlier this month, Marine Le Pen, the leader of the antiimmigrant National Front (FN) re¬plied smugly: "It's hard to fight the quenel¬le and jihadists at the same time." (The quenelle is an allegedly anti-Semitic ges¬ture invented by the humorist Dieudonne,

Merab, the 23year old son of Algerian immigrants who killed seven people, including three Jewish children, in early 2012.

The FN has been anti-immigrant and anti-European since its foundation by Jean-Marie Le Pen in 1972. There have been three stages in its antiimmigrant ra¬tionale, says Prof Pascal Perrineau, one of France's leading political scientists and an expert on the rise of the FN. The first fo¬cused on unemployment, the second on crime and the most recent on Islam.
In the 1970s, when Valery Giscard d'Es taing established the policy of regroupement familial to enable the families of im¬migrant workers to join them, the FN's posters said "One million immigrants = one million jobless".
That theme continues today, while the number of unemployed has quintupled. "When a country has five million jobless, by definition, when you import immi¬grants, you're importing unemployed peo¬ple," Le Pen says.
The founders of the FN were mostly sup¬porters of L'Algerie Francaise, who op¬posed independence for Algeria in the
The message... was also that Islam threatens our cultural model; that we can never integrate a Muslim community that harbours radical Islam as surely as clouds carry storms Prof Pascal Perrineau
19541962 war.
"Since the majority of immigrants came from Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia, the hostility was in part based on resentment towards countries considered ungrateful to France, particularly Algeria," Prof Per¬rineau says. "There's an element of set¬tling historic accounts."
Young FN supporters have forgotten the war, but Marine Le Pen brought it up spontaneously with journalists, and it still weighs on the oldtimers.
Le Pen's father Jean-Marie frequently pointed out the high numbers of immi¬grants among the French prison popula¬tion. The FN's programme still calls for the expulsion of all immigrants convicted of a crime.
In his 1995 book The Crisis Vote, Prof Perrineau coined the phrase "gaucholepe nisme" to describe the shift by unem¬ployed French workers from the commu¬nist and socialist parties to the FN, on the grounds that immigrants "stole our jobs". Today, 33 per cent of French workers and was waning. Realising the impact the at¬tacks on the World Trade Center would have on the FN's fortunes, young militants drank champagne while the towers burned on September 11th, 2001. They were reprimanded, and Jean-Marie Le Pen sent condolences to George W Bush.
When fundamentalist Muslims carried out attacks in London, Paris and Madrid, the FN explicitly associated immigration with radical Islam.
"The message was, 'watch out'. Immi¬gration is not only the vector of economic competition and insecurity," Prof Per¬rineau recalls. "It was also that Islam threatens our cultural model; that we can never integrate a Muslim community that harbours radical Islam as surely as clouds carry storms."
France "can no longer assimilate new Frenchmen," says the FN programme. "Ghettos, interracial conflict, sectarian demands and politico-religious provoca¬tion are the direct consequences of mas¬sive immigration that threatens our identi¬ty and carries ever more visible Islamisation." Le Pen often lists "veils, burkas and cathedrallike mosques" as the symptoms of Islamisation, and says she's fighting to prevent France becoming a caliphate or Is¬lamic state.
Incitement to hatred
Two antiracist groups have filed lawsuits against Marine Le Pen for her December 2010 comparison of Muslims praying in French streets to the German army's occu¬pation of France during the second World War. The EU parliament has lifted her immunity as an MEP, and she may stand trial for incitement to racial hatred.
"I prefer my daughters to my cousins, my cousins to my neighbours, my neigh¬bours to strangers," Jean-Marie Le Pen said for decades, explaining his policy of "national preference". Marine's modern¬ised FN has changed the term to "national priority," but she, like her father, still con¬demns the "sucking pumps" of welfare pay¬ments and other benefits which attract im¬migrants to France.
"Whatever his race or religion, a French person must have priority of access to em¬ployment and housing," Le Pen says. "Even if I disagree with the way a lot of them acquired French nationality, I would nottry to take it away from them."
Le Pen says she would reduce legal im¬migration to France from 200,000 to
annually. All illegal immigrants would be expelled, and French law would be altered to make future legalisations im¬possible. Demonstrations by illegal immi¬grants or those who support them would be banned.
The FN would rescind the 40yearold policy of family reunification, renounce the Schengen accords on freedom of move¬ment in Europe, and reduce the maximum duration of a residence card from 10 to three years. The FN would abolishJus soli, the right of anyone born in France to citi¬zenship. Foreigners who lose their jobs would be expelled after a year's unemploy¬ment.
Jean-Marie Le Pen's prophecy of the "Le Penisation of (French) minds" seems to have come true. Polls show that three quarters of French people believe Islam is "not compatible with French values". Twothirds say there are too many foreign¬ers in France, while 59 per cent say that "in general, immigrants don't try to inte¬grate." At the same time, acceptance of the FN has grown 47 per cent say it's "a useful party".

Feverish disputes
Immigration was the backdrop to feverish political disputes in recent months: the "Leonarda affair", when the expulsion of a 15yearold Roma schoolgirl with her fami¬ly backfired on the Hollande administra¬tion; the government's climbdown after 250 experts delivered a report on integration to the prime minister which said schoolgirls should be allowed to wear head scarves and Arabic could be taught in French schools. "We're not in Britain or Canada, where women can go around in hi jab and kids can demand halal meals in schools," says Prof Perrineau. "France just doesn't work that way."
An opinion poll in October showed the FN would win 24 per cent of the vote in Eu¬ropean parliamentary elections on May 25th, two points ahead of the conservative UMP and five points ahead of the social¬ists.
France is the second most powerful country in the EU, after Germany. If the FN comes in first on May 25th, it will be a political earthquake, comparable to Jean-Marie Le Pen's qualifying for the runoff in the 2002 presidential election.
And a wave of disquiet will run through France's immigrant population

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 04:31 PM

http://www.tamingwar.com/non-lethal-weapons-and-peace/

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 04:19 PM

It is simple Jim.
Civilised and developed countries deploy non-lethal weapons because dead protestors are unacceptable to us.
Why would you deny that to Arabs and others?

Dictators like Assad are happy to gun down their people.
Non-lethal equipment is not as good as real guns for repression.
Non-lethal can not make things any worse, and just might make them better.
See the Geneva Forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 11:46 AM

I was fascinated by a letter which appeared in this morning's Irish Times which (presumably) gave the Church's view on the subject of Ne Temere, a Church ruling which set up the requirements that all mixed marriages of Catholic and non-Catholic could only take place with the Church's blessing and by agreement that any children should be brought up Catholics.
It was a practice that led to the break-up of happy marriages and the removal of children if the church deemed it necessary.
Loaded phrases like "much more posi¬tive", "in the context of the overall good of the mar¬riage", "it is not uncommon", and the excuse that 'it was all the fault of the Reformation', makes it quite clear that the Church still considers itself in full control of the lives of the faithful.
In the light of continuing revelations of decades of child abuse and the fact that Ne Temere remains on the statute books, it's fairly obvious that the Christian Church remains every bit a potential threat to our well-being as any other given the opportunity.
As I have been suggesting, any religion with a modicum of power is likely to abuse that power in order to retain its grip on peoples'   
Jim Carroll

"Mixed marriages and 'Ne Temere'
Sir, -I was moved and saddened by Helga Faiers's letter (January 20th). The church of the past has a lot to answer for.
It was a time when relations between the churches were at an all-time low. Resulting from the legacy of the nuanced reformation, the churches had gone their antagonistic and separate ways.
Now, however, when inter-church relations are warm¬er the practices around mixed marriage are much more positive.
First, the question of the baptism of any children to a mixed marriage is much nuanced.
The rights and preferences of each party must be tak¬en into account in the context of the overall good of the marriage.
Second, it is not uncommon for the minister for the non-Catholic party to be the sole officiator in his/her church with the full blessing of the Catholic authorities.
We have come a long way since the bad old days, circa 1953.-
Yours, etc
Fr EDWARD DOWNES CC, The Presbytery, Valleymount, Co Wicklow."

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 11:46 AM

I was fascinated by a letter which appeared in this morning's Irish Times which (presumably) gave the Church's view on the subject of Ne Temere, a Church ruling which set up the requirements that all mixed marriages of Catholic and non-Catholic could only take place with the Church's blessing and by agreement that any children should be brought up Catholics.
It was a practice that led to the break-up of happy marriages and the removal of children if the church deemed it necessary.
Loaded phrases like "much more posi¬tive", "in the context of the overall good of the mar¬riage", "it is not uncommon", and the excuse that 'it was all the fault of the Reformation', makes it quite clear that the Church still considers itself in full control of the lives of the faithful.
In the light of continuing revelations of decades of child abuse and the fact that Ne Temere remains on the statute books, it's fairly obvious that the Christian Church remains every bit a potential threat to our well-being as any other given the opportunity.
As I have been suggesting, any religion with a modicum of power is likely to abuse that power in order to retain its grip on peoples'   
Jim Carroll

"Mixed marriages and 'Ne Temere'
Sir, -I was moved and saddened by Helga Faiers's letter (January 20th). The church of the past has a lot to answer for.
It was a time when relations between the churches were at an all-time low. Resulting from the legacy of the nuanced reformation, the churches had gone their antagonistic and separate ways.
Now, however, when inter-church relations are warm¬er the practices around mixed marriage are much more positive.
First, the question of the baptism of any children to a mixed marriage is much nuanced.
The rights and preferences of each party must be tak¬en into account in the context of the overall good of the marriage.
Second, it is not uncommon for the minister for the non-Catholic party to be the sole officiator in his/her church with the full blessing of the Catholic authorities.
We have come a long way since the bad old days, circa 1953.-
Yours, etc
Fr EDWARD DOWNES CC, The Presbytery, Valleymount, Co Wicklow."

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 09:05 AM

You have just recommended that it is permissible to be supplied with riot equipment - which - was - the end result being that to date 17,000 dissidents disappeared from or have died in his prisons and torture chambers.
Are you so insane as to not recognise the fact that if a torturer is equipped with riot control equipment he will use it to subdue dissidents, round up the ringleaders and torture and murder them?
Your lip service to opposition is totally contradicted by both the facts of what happened when he subdued opposition and your continuing insistence that there was nothing wrong with Britain supplying it - and your claim that the Assads of this world be supplied with any military or equipment to be used on their own population
This really has become like addressing an extremely disturbed and backward child
It is only worth going on with in the hope you will never be allowed to do it again
Gone!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 07:52 AM

That was me.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 07:50 AM

Me an apologist for Assad?
I was the first person to start a thread deploring what he was doing, and have never stopped deploring his behaviour.

Jim, checking is not supporting.
You checked it too.
I was just honest about what we found.

So, now you have failed to make me a monster, let's discuss the issues and not me for a change.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Musket
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 07:09 AM

Just thought of what I was going to say when I started the last post.

No such thing as lethal kit. No such thing as non lethal kit. Just lethal people, and those who apologise for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 07:00 AM

"I do not lie remember."
You just have - by denying that you supported an extremist thread when the evidence that you did was put in front of you - and by saying "I do not lie remember."
"IT CHECKS OUT.
SORRY, BUT IT DOES, AND I KNOW YOU HAVE ALSO CHECKED.
IT HARDLY MATTERS WHERE IT CAME FROM IF IT IS TRUE.
NEITHER OF US CAN FIND A SINGLE FAULT WITH IT, SO WHAT IS YOUR OBJECTION?"
Despite the fact that Assad used British supplied water cannons, armoured cars and tear gas to subdue the then peaceful protests to his terrorism, and in spite of his record of human rights abuses, torture, chemical warfare and mass murder, you continue to advocate that selling such equipment (or anything) to him was and is not only acceptable but desirable.
You seem to have added "Assad supporter" to your already glowing C.V.
Well done you.
I think there is more than enough evidence to charge you with being an extremely disturbed and dangerous nutter.
I'm pretty confident that even your best friends will have the good sense to think twice before they become involved with your rantings for fear of becoming contaminated by your infectious bile.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Musket
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 06:37 AM

Am I still allowed to be an obnoxious twat on this thread?

Oh good.



Seig Heil Keith!

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jan 14 - 05:26 AM

You checked it and kept supporting it - this is your quote

No.
I doubted it.
I tested it.
I said honestly what I found.

How does that make me bad?
Justify accusing me of "drawing his information from extremist racist sites,"
I found it here!

How does my preference for non-lethal kit make me bad?

You try to discredit me because you can not debate against me.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 14 - 05:53 PM

I do not lie remember.
Believing non-lethal kit is better than using real guns and live rounds on people does not make me bad.

I did not support the list.
I doubted it and tested it.
It is not my fault it turned out to be true.
Neither of us could find any fault, so you support it as much as me.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 14 - 03:10 PM

That is not supporting, that is checking because I had doubts."

"Jim, I have no reasons why you should believe this list or anything else.
That is why I checked it myself.
It checks out.
Sorry, but it does, and I know you have also checked.
It hardly matters where it came from if it is true.
Neither of us can find a single fault with it, so what is your objection?"

You checked it and kept supporting it - this is your quote - or is someone pulling your stunt of posting in a fake identity
I'm delighted that you are still defending supplying riot control gear to Assad - when do you reckon the next batch is due to be shipped from Britain - when the dust settles after their having sold him chemicals for his chemical weapons arsenal
Keep it coming Keith and keep on lying - as the an from Tesco said "every little helps".
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 14 - 02:49 PM

That is not supporting, that is checking because I had doubts.

You have not identified any incident that you think did not happen.

Re non-lethal kit.
Assad was already using his plentiful supply of guns and bullets on his people.
How could giving him non-lethal kit make things worse?
Maybe some lives might be saved.
I think all regimes, however bad, should at least have access to water squirters etc.
Guns and bullets they already have.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 14 - 01:09 PM

Please be going on with these while I sort the test out -you lyoing, stupid toe-rag
Jim Carroll

"All the items I checked were correct, and neither you nor anyone else was able to find one single false entry"

"I recognised some entries, and checked a few I did not recognise.
I found no false entries, and would be very surprised if you have.
I find it hard to believe.
Help me out by identifying a false entry, because you have been known to make stuff up.
What reason could you possibly have to withhold information that would make Bobad and me look silly?"

"Like you, I checked its entries looking for untruths.
Like you, I was unable to find any.
Unlike you, I was honest about my findings.
You claimed to have found false entries, but would not or could not tell us which ones.
How could anyone believe that?"

"Jim, I challenged you to identify a single incident that was not true.
All the ones I checked were, and I remembered many more.
I do not think the list was untrue, whoever published it."

"I have checked through many and also remember many of the incidents."

"Jim, I have no reasons why you should believe this list or anything else.
That is why I checked it myself.
It checks out.
Sorry, but it does, and I know you have also checked.
It hardly matters where it came from if it is true.
Neither of us can find a single fault with it, so what is your objection?"

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 14 - 12:54 PM

"No. I did not accept any of it, until I made checks."
So you now accept it?
"No flaws have been pointed out."
Now you are openly lying - which is fine by me
Can we have a little more on your continuing proposal to sell Assad riot control equipment please?
Jim Carroll


Date: 17 Jan 14 - 03:04 PM
Had a quick shufi through the first five items on Keith's list
1   All information from this comes from extremist web-sites
2   Police blame either terrorists or criminal gangs - no arrests, no definite suspects
3   Nothing
4   All information from extremist websites
5   Syrian rebels fighting Assad - nothing whatever to do with sectarian persecution, part of the Syrian revolt - all residents fled - no fatalities.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 14 - 12:54 PM

"No. I did not accept any of it, until I made checks."
So you now accept it?
"No flaws have been pointed out."
Now you are openly lying - which is fine by me
Can we have a little more on your continuing proposal to sell Assad riot control equipment please?
Jim Carroll


Date: 17 Jan 14 - 03:04 PM
Had a quick shufi through the first five items on Keith's list
1   All information from this comes from extremist web-sites
2   Police blame either terrorists or criminal gangs - no arrests, no definite suspects
3   Nothing
4   All information from extremist websites
5   Syrian rebels fighting Assad - nothing whatever to do with sectarian persecution, part of the Syrian revolt - all residents fled - no fatalities.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 14 - 11:48 AM

Yes you have been defending that list
You claimed from the beginning it was true and challenged us to disprove those claims

No. I did not accept any of it, until I made checks.

You produced half a dozen that you claimed proved your case (every single one flawed) and went on defending them after these flaws had been pointed out

No flaws have been pointed out.
I only posted two that I checked this week.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 14 - 11:43 AM

We know why the Christians formed their own militia and carried out reprisals.(That is not to condone the crimes.)

I know of no reason why the Islamists made unprovoked attacks on the Christians, except that they were Christians.
None has been reported.
Do you know of any?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 14 - 11:29 AM

""I stated that non-lethal is preferable to lethal."
Imbecile sums it up
Whether or not other nations supply Assad with anything Britain should not supply any equipment to a murderous regime, especially not that which can be used to quash opposition and enable the Syrian authorities to round up the troublemakers and ship them off to their torture chambers as has obviously happened.
Assad's record on human rights has been known for at least a decade before the present troubles broke out - despite this the British Government continued supplying weapons and riot control equipment
Trading military equipment with murderous dictators not only gives them the wherewithal to murder and control the opposition - but it also gives them the kudos that comes with trading with the west.
Defectors from Assad's regime have pointed out how much he values his links with Britain - by trading, Britain has not only supported him in his terrorism, but it has retained those links, rather an breaking it as an act of opposition (which was being called for by his opponents.
Nioot forgetting, of course, that the chemicals that were sold by Britain helped him to create a stockpile of chemical weapons.
"would do no harm and might do some good."
Have go gone completely out of your ******* mind???
Yes you have been defending that list
You claimed from the beginning it was true and challenged us to disprove those claims
You produced half a dozen that you claimed proved your case (every single one flawed) and went on defending them after these flaws had been pointed out
Want me to cut-'n-paste all this or would you rather crawl up this thread and see for yourself?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 14 - 11:23 AM

Seleka had been massacring Christians. Thousands fled their homes.

I deplore the Christians seeking revenge and carrying out reprisals for the brutal murders inflicted on them.