BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language

Subject: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 07:01 AM

She's absolutely right.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 07:02 AM

She told the Radio Times that using phrases such as "like" and "innit" made individuals sound stupid. She is so right.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 07:19 AM

Indeed, I was compiling a mental list of sloppy grammar and pronounciation, in my head, only the other day.
Febuary, umburella, nucular, libary, a hotel, stadiums, athaletes, very unique, hung instead of hanged, mizzled for misled.
etc etc etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 07:25 AM

Days of the week - Sundee, Mondee, Tuesdee, Wensdee, Fursdee, Fridee, Sa'urdee!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 07:26 AM

Yes, she's right but at least these are young people who use them that she's referring to so at the same time let's be rid of those Radio 4 cliches from people who should know better:
Overuse of the verb 'to target'
'It's not rocket science': just Newtonian mechanics with a variable mass
That 'Elephant in the Room'
'Blue Sky Thinking', whatever that means.
'Convenience Stores': are Sainsbury's inconvenient?
'Affordable Housing': what's the use of house that cannot be afforded
Etc etc
The majority of sports and business correspondents who seem to use standard phrase books.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: greg stephens
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 07:27 AM

and then there's writing "pronounciation" instead of "pronunciation": keep your eye on the ball John.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: Acorn4
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 07:31 AM

My favourite one from Leicester is "hospickal".

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: TheSnail
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 07:42 AM

Why does every question have to be relied to (by supposedly educated people) "Absoluetly!" or "Very much so!". I once heard "Tremendously very much so!". I'm still waiting for "Absoluetly very much so!".

And decade is pronounced dec-ade not decayed.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 07:48 AM

I first noticed the (over)use of "absolutely" by Ronald Reagan & it still irritates me.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 07:50 AM

For many, bad language jars somewhat. I started out in life as a miner and was always amused at how we (I became as bad...) had two languages. the F'ing & blinding we used at work versus the "parlour" language we used in front of family.

Sadly, this bilingual approach to life seems to be fading away. My youngest is qualified up to the armpits and presently writing his PhD thesis, but still emails me using shortcuts and terms of phrase that I assume he doesn't use in his published papers... I left school with little in terms of qualifications and even those I had were technical rather than the arts. I failed English language and literature. But perhaps that shows irritation at poor language is not an elitist issue after all? I am saddened by poor use of language both orally and especially in internet posts / emails.

Having said all that, I assume most people would be comfortable with Emma Thompson's concerns whilst at the same time wishing to nurture local dialect and phraseology?

I would, by 'eck....

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 07:52 AM

Oh yes Emma 'Her Majesty' Thompson, I've been reading about her little rant about sloppy language. I said something similar about using 'like' and words like 'innit' but I do realise that it is a young thing and it passes. My gripe is with older people who still do this in order to look 'in with the kids' hip and happening. And that is something that has been going on with the 'oldest swingers in town' as long as I can remember.

We ought to give them all a good thrashing!

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: theleveller
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 07:57 AM

I agree with her in principle. However, it's important not to confuse sloppy speech with the local accents and colloquialisms that enrich our language – often throwbacks to Old or Middle English. Thankfully, we've more or less got rid (except, of course, in The Archers) of the terrible Beebeecee accents that used to be so common on the airwaves.

My own particular bugbears are the influx of Americanisms (it's 'zed', not bloody 'zee') and the sloppy, slurry speech of the public school Hooray Henries and Henrieattas who insist on droppin' their Gs and saying 'gunner' when they mean 'going to' and 'yah' instead of 'yes'.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: Acorn4
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 08:00 AM

One of the people who sings at our club who is a secondary teacher told the story of a lad in his class who was a brilliant mathematician and got an interview for Oxford.

In the course of the interview the question was asked:-

"Of course, you realise this is a very difficult university to get into?

To which the student replied:-

"It's a good job I'm clever then, innit?"

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 08:17 AM

innit - Flossie Malavialle needs to watch out then :-)

My daughter in response to a question that is either yes or no, always uses Yup for yes and that niggles me.

Going to is Gunna

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 08:41 AM

Well Greg, I'm always at a loss on that one, it is said, pronunciation, although the elision of the letter u seems very odd. It is also spelled both ways in many documents and/or web sites, so I suppose it's just my choice. Albeit, that would appear to put me in the minority, my favourite classification! :)

May I also add, new innovation, and very unigue, to my list.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 08:41 AM

These get on my last nerve. I aksed him pacificly how he ekscaped.

Annoying, lazy and thick as the gangsta speak of the youth sounds, it is my fervent hope that most will grow out of this generational language apathy.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: clueless don
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 08:42 AM

John MacKenzie, I disagree with you regarding "a hotel". I assume that you think it should be "an hotel?"

It depends on how you pronounce the word. After all, Richard the third is supposed to have said "A horse! A horse! My kingdom for a horse!", not "An 'orse! An 'orse! My kingdom for an 'orse!"

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 08:44 AM

The Chaos

by Dr. Gerard Nolst Trenité (1870-1946)

    Dearest creature in creation,
    Study English pronunciation.
    I will teach you in my verse
    Sounds like corpse, corps, horse, and worse.
    I will keep you, Susy, busy,
    Make your head with heat grow dizzy.
    Tear in eye, your dress will tear.
    So shall I! Oh hear my prayer.

    Just compare heart, beard, and heard,
    Dies and diet, lord and word,
    Sword and sward, retain and Britain.
    (Mind the latter, how it's written.)
    Now I surely will not plague you
    With such words as plaque and ague.
    But be careful how you speak:
    Say break and steak, but bleak and streak;
    Cloven, oven, how and low,
    Script, receipt, show, poem, and toe.

    Hear me say, devoid of trickery,
    Daughter, laughter, and Terpsichore,
    Typhoid, measles, topsails, aisles,
    Exiles, similes, and reviles;
    Scholar, vicar, and cigar,
    Solar, mica, war and far;
    One, anemone, Balmoral,
    Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel;
    Gertrude, German, wind and mind,
    Scene, Melpomene, mankind.

    Billet does not rhyme with ballet,
    Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet.
    Blood and flood are not like food,
    Nor is mould like should and would.
    Viscous, viscount, load and broad,
    Toward, to forward, to reward.
    And your pronunciation's OK
    When you correctly say croquet,
    Rounded, wounded, grieve and sieve,
    Friend and fiend, alive and live.

    Ivy, privy, famous; clamour
    And enamour rhyme with hammer.
    River, rival, tomb, bomb, comb,
    Doll and roll and some and home.
    Stranger does not rhyme with anger,
    Neither does devour with clangour.
    Souls but foul, haunt but aunt,
    Font, front, wont, want, grand, and grant,
    Shoes, goes, does. Now first say finger,
    And then singer, ginger, linger,
    Real, zeal, mauve, gauze, gouge and gauge,
    Marriage, foliage, mirage, and age.

    Query does not rhyme with very,
    Nor does fury sound like bury.
    Dost, lost, post and doth, cloth, loth.
    Job, nob, bosom, transom, oath.
    Though the differences seem little,
    We say actual but victual.
    Refer does not rhyme with deafer.
    Foeffer does, and zephyr, heifer.
    Mint, pint, senate and sedate;
    Dull, bull, and George ate late.
    Scenic, Arabic, Pacific,
    Science, conscience, scientific.

    Liberty, library, heave and heaven,
    Rachel, ache, moustache, eleven.
    We say hallowed, but allowed,
    People, leopard, towed, but vowed.
    Mark the differences, moreover,
    Between mover, cover, clover;
    Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,
    Chalice, but police and lice;
    Camel, constable, unstable,
    Principle, disciple, label.

    Petal, panel, and canal,
    Wait, surprise, plait, promise, pal.
    Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, chair,
    Senator, spectator, mayor.
    Tour, but our and succour, four.
    Gas, alas, and Arkansas.
    Sea, idea, Korea, area,
    Psalm, Maria, but malaria.
    Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean.
    Doctrine, turpentine, marine.

    Compare alien with Italian,
    Dandelion and battalion.
    Sally with ally, yea, ye,
    Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, and key.
    Say aver, but ever, fever,
    Neither, leisure, skein, deceiver.
    Heron, granary, canary.
    Crevice and device and aerie.

    Face, but preface, not efface.
    Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass.
    Large, but target, gin, give, verging,
    Ought, out, joust and scour, scourging.
    Ear, but earn and wear and tear
    Do not rhyme with here but ere.
    Seven is right, but so is even,
    Hyphen, roughen, nephew Stephen,
    Monkey, donkey, Turk and jerk,
    Ask, grasp, wasp, and cork and work.

    Pronunciation -- think of Psyche!
    Is a paling stout and spikey?
    Won't it make you lose your wits,
    Writing groats and saying grits?
    It's a dark abyss or tunnel:
    Strewn with stones, stowed, solace, gunwale,
    Islington and Isle of Wight,
    Housewife, verdict and indict.

    Finally, which rhymes with enough --
    Though, through, plough, or dough, or cough?
    Hiccough has the sound of cup.
    My advice is to give up!

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: kendall
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 09:05 AM

We have a weather man on local TV who uses "Ergo" instead of "So". That bugs me.

Others:
Very unique.
EXpecially
Eggzit

I suppose the language has to evolve, otherwise we would all be talking like Shakespeare. Wot Ho? Varlet? instead of "What's shakin' Dude?

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 09:13 AM

This must be a first - folks seem to be almost in agreement!!

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: Lox
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 09:16 AM

I read this report earlier with interest.

I never would have dreamed that it would be Bonzo bringing it to the attention of mudcatters though.

The worlds sharpest satirist would be stretched to come up with irony as heavy as this..

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 09:21 AM

How utterly depressing. Another sterling example of small minded intollerance by those Mudcatters embarked on their fruitless quest for correctness in all things.

Language is MUTABLE, folks! There is only the PRAGMATICS of USAGE otherwise all is correct by linguistic default and definition. Otherwise, what is winding you up here is pure evolving and living folklore and as such is very worthy of your attention, study and celebration.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 09:42 AM

What is funny to hear are the kids that do gangsta speak and it turns out that they really live in a comfy middle class leafy suburb somewhere (aka. Ali G) Keeping it real, innit. This is not a critism on them just a light hearted look.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: Stu
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 09:44 AM

Who gives a flying ,er, duck what Emma 'Miss Money-Sterling' Thompson thinks? As if she never said the word 'bollocks' or 'reet thar lar' whilst hoofing it around the stage with the other footlights wallahs.

Far more interesting is the development and evolution of the language as catalogued by that esteemed, swollen organ The Profanisaurus.

Now I'm off to hang a rat.

Bostin!

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 10:18 AM

Steamin' Willie said, in part:

had two languages. the F'ing & blinding we used at work versus the "parlour" language

"F'ing" I follow, but "blinding", in that context? Whaaa???

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: Stu
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 10:26 AM

IN-GER-LAND!

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 10:26 AM

Farmer, dirt poor, picked up his daughter at the train station. She was the first person in family to graduate not only from high school, but also from college.

As they drove back to farm she said, "Daddy, I have to tell you something. I ain't a virgin anymore."

Tears immediately filled the old man's eyes and he slammed to stop at the side of the road.

"Daddy," she said, "it's not that big of a deal."

Her father, sobbing, slumped over the steering wheel, said, "We mortgaged the farm so you could get a college education! And you still say 'ain't'!!"

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 10:29 AM

'F'ing and Blinding' is a commonly-used UK phrase which means simply swearing using strong language including the F-word, as distinct from 'mild' swearing using words like bloody, bugger, damn, etc., which are barely seen as swearing at all nowadays.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: theleveller
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 11:02 AM

You're so right, Backwoodsman. I may not have taught my children much, but I did teach them to swear properly.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 11:07 AM

Clueless Don, or "an 'oss, an 'oss, m'kingdom for an 'oss!" LOL!

I get tired of hearing newscasters, esp. young, local ones who drop the "g" at the end of words such as going/go-un, taking/taykin, etc. It used to be newscasts were pre-written AND sent to an editor before it was ever read on air. Charles Kuralt chronicles this in his book "A Life on the Road," when, as a young pup of a writer, he wrote for Edward R. Murrow and was edited at the same time he was handed Murrow's commentary to edit. In our local market, that is unheard of and it becomes obvious when one watches the evening news.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 11:10 AM

I never realised Emma Thompson was such an over-excitable strange woman. She likes to over-share, just like she over-acts.

Recently on television she talked about how she needs to take time off as she's overstretched and depressed from the rigours of her acting work. She isn't exactly busy on the big screen these days as far as I can see. She went on and on about her great dislike of Audrey Hepburn's terrible acting, rich coming from someone failed in several relationships and living on anti depressions. A sad figure, rejected by men so hates the world and all in it as far as I can see.

She won't be fit to tie the shoe laces of Andrey Hepburn.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 11:23 AM

Sound of messenger being shot, echoes round Mudcat (again) !

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 11:30 AM

Agreed, John. I fail to see the point of Richie's peculiar ad hominem attack on Emma Thompson. In what way does he consider that the fact that she fails to appreciate what he sees as the excellence of Ms Hepburn's acting disqualify her from expressing her views on the state of the language ~~ notwithstanding whether or not one finds these views acceptable?

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 11:31 AM

I give up. Who is Emma Thompson?

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: theleveller
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 11:34 AM

Bit harsh, that, Richie. Can I just point out that depression is an illness, not a stigma. And she does speak proper!

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: GUEST,Gervase
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 11:34 AM

She won't be fit to tie the shoe laces of Andrey Hepburn
I'm sure she's necking back the Prozac as she reads this.
She's always been a heroine of mine; sharply intelligent, irreverent, funny, self-deprecating, talented and with a social conscience. And bloody attractive too.
As for 'over sharing', don't we all 'over share' every time we put fingers to keyboard here or anywhere else? We can just thank our lucky stars that we're nonentities about whom the press gives not a fart, so our flowers blush unseen and our fragrance is wasted on the desert air.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 11:44 AM

Well said, Gervase!

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 11:46 AM

The thing is Emma (for the record, I think she is brilliant) doesn't approve of the lazy language in certain settings.

I agree with her that in the setting of messing around with mates it is fine. But outside of that it should not be acceptable. If that makes me an old fart then I am in good company.

I just read article by Denise Wintermam explaining that the word "like" is being used as a filler as "um" and "ah" have been used. My ex used "ya know what I mean" as a filler and it drove me around the bend.

anyway article by Winterman here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11426737

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 12:47 PM

Language is a fluid thing that evolves over time. The last thing we want is a "correct" English or a "high" language like that of many other European languages. Why is "we was" incorrect? We all understand what is meant by it, so it performs its function.

Emma Thompson doesn't light up the screen like Audrey Hepburn. She has no "Breakfast at Tiffany's" on her resume. And as far as acting goes, she would do well to watch "Two for the road". I can't think of any Emma Thompson film that comes close. It's a little bit like Stephen Dorff saying John Wayne couldn't act.

I don't doubt at all that she means what she says, but my problem is her overall BITCHASSNESS about it. If she wanted to strictly criticize Audrey's performance in MFL, fine, no problemss with that. But she totally exaggerated it when she said Audrey couldn't act or sing.

Now, was Audrey the greatest at either? No, but she wasn't completely devoid of talent, and if Emma truly thinks that, well then maybe she should watch some of Audrey's lesser known films, such as War & Peace, Children of the Hour and Two For The Road. No one is asking Emma to worship Audrey, but if she's gonna put her down, she should at least get her facts straight. And acting isn't just about the technical ability to act, it's just as much about presence, personality and charisma, and Audrey had plenty of it.

So Emma, if you have nothing truly constructive to say, then next time keep it to yourself, you dumb bitch.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: Les from Hull
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 01:00 PM

My half-a-groat's-worth:

Language is constantly changing, sometimes it's changing a bit too fast for some of us.

On the subject of horses and hotels, I was taught that an 'h' that is pronounced aspirated does not require 'an'. Of course 'h' does not begin with an 'h' (aitch) so it does. Hotel would only need an 'an' if it is pronounced in the French manner, which is why posh people sometimes say this.

Yoof talk has always been with us. We all had slang expressions and pronunciations in our young days. Don't worry, they don't always last!

Yes, I get annoyed by certain language usage and pronunciation, the inability to sound 'th', 'less' instead of 'fewer', overuse of hackneyed phrases. I could go on. I often do. But I don't worry too much about it. I know that my superb English usage and pronunciation will always lead people to believe that I am the erudite and polished person wot I am.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 01:10 PM

What concerns ME is not so much that many people use slang and cant and shortened, malformed versions of speech in certain everyday situations, but that so many of them seem unaware of the correct forms and cannot adjust when the occasion calls for it. And many seem to take a certain perverse pride in their refusal to 'translate', especially when speaking...or posting... to a mixed audience....such as, for example, Mudcat. ☺


And I have about given up on EVER hearing the word 'ensure' said on television again. I wonder what the rates are to insure all the vagaries of life? (and how many ever use the word 'vagaries' anymore?)

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 01:21 PM

OK then, fuck it.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 01:30 PM

One that annoys me is when people pronounce the 'g' at the end of words such as sing or bang. Its there to nasalise (made up word I expect) the n but in itself should be silent.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 01:45 PM

Emma Thompson is right, and I am happy to be confirmed in this opinion by Sweeney's disagreement.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: kendall
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 01:48 PM

Whenever I hear someone who should know better say particuly or like this or like that and wow, and far out or someone defending that kind of bastardized lingo,all I can say is, Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself.
If I ran a business and needed someone to meet the public I would never hire anyone who couldn't speak proper English.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 01:50 PM

Mrs Duck: several regional accents, though, emphasise the g. Most Midlands accents, for example. I like regional differences in pronunciation - homogeneity is ever so boring (said in my best Brummie accent).

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: kendall
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 01:51 PM

Maybe that's why so many young people are unemployed.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 02:05 PM

I haven't liked anything Emma Thompson has done since Tutti Frutti, but that has nothing to do withe her thoughts on the poor linguistic abilities of some people.
I suggest you narrow minded Emma haters, start your own thread about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 02:13 PM

Guest,999, it should be fairly easy to deduce from this thread that Emma Thompson is a well-known (even if not by you) British actress, comedian, and screenwriter. If not, a quick Google search would certainly preclude the necessity of blanket applications of vulgarity to the thread participants at large.

Just to be clear.

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: BS: Emma Thompson attacks poor language
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 02:42 PM

And who are you to speak for the group? Much as who is she to speak for the world? She may dislike the way kids speak, but no one died and left her boss--in the vernacular.

I agree that there is a time and place for whatever kind of language people wish to use, but admonishments from someone I don`t know--and don`t really care to know--means little to me. Have a wonderful day, DD.