BS: George Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: pdq
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 03:43 PM

The guys with machines that do voice recognition are not the same as friends and relatives of the two principles.

Dr. Hirotaka Nakasone: "It's not possible to scientifically identify who is screaming in the background of a neighbor's 911 call placed to dispatchers the night of the fatal confrontation between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin...However, a person who is familiar with Zimmerman's voice or Martin's voice might have a better chance of identifying it..."

Hence, the judge allowed a parade of "witnesses" on both sides to give their opinion(s). Martin's mother said it was her son, friends of Zimmerman said it was him. Nobody was exactly objective.

Since the neighbor Jonathan Good said he saw Martin straddling Zimmerman and repeatedly smashing a fist in his face, we need to stop trying to suggest that it was Martin screaming for help. It was Zimmerman as the only true eye witness to the fight has testified. Yes, Jonathan Good said he saw Zimmerman scream for help.

A cop testified that Zimmerman said he helped protect the neighborhood, but when he yelled for help, nobody came. He was clearly dissapointed.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 04:03 PM

That's strange, pdq... The two "expert witnesses' that the prosecution had lined up to testify each said they didn't think the voice matched Zimmerman's...

This entire idea that if enough subterfuge is thrown into the trial that Zimmerman will get away with this murder seems to be what the court and the defense wants...

This judge should not have allowed the recording to go public, nor should she have allowed the defense to go public with private property of the victim as, no matter how many time you or the other Zimmerman worshipers say it, has no relevance to this trial... So what if Martin smoked pot... I smoke pot, too... Doesn't give anyone the right to murder me or if they do use that as evidence on why I deserved to be murdered...

Like I have pointed out... The righties here don't want justice... They want for Zimmerman to get away with murder...

Normal...

As for this supposed Martin smashing blows down on Zimmerman??? That's a joke... Give me 5 seconds to pound down on you and you are going to look like fucking hamburger... That's bogus... Plus, the other neighbor saw it the other way...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 05:53 PM

The unnamed Guest above makes powerful points.

If what he says about Zimmerman's head problems is accurate, Zimmerman was a murder waiting to happen. He so badly wanted to be white (and rich) in a racist community that he'd murder a black to prove he was white. It sticks out a mile.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 06:06 PM

Yep, 600 and counting, Beardy & damn near a third of 'em your horseshit.
Quite an accomplishment. Congratulations.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 08:00 PM

""Once again, Don T is proud to show how stupid he is!

He wasn't in school, so play the sympathetic game... B..and your little unarmed 'schoolboy', was six inches taller than Zimmerman, on top of him beating the crap out of him..THAT IS WHAT THE TRIAL IS ABOUT...the question of self defense or not!""

Six inches taller, WOW, what an advantage!

He was also three and a half stone lighter cretin!

Which of those do you suppose is more advantageous in a fight.

Zimmerman initiated the confrontation. In a civilised country, that would outweigh the disadvantage of being black.

""You assume that Zimmerman would have shot him in the back, running away??? That's quite a jump, chump...and he is not being charge with that...BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAPPEN ANYWHERE BUT IN YOUR MIND!""

NO I DO NOT, Fuckwit, and that wasn't what I said!

I made it clear that if I were a black kid who had spent the whole of my life in Florida, I would not have risked my life on the assumption that I wouldn't be shot in the back.

And on seeing the man confronting me reach for a pocket, I would have taken preventive action, exactly as Martin did.

It's called "Standing Your Ground" under the law of that state, and Martin, fearing that Zimmerman was reaching for a weapon, should have been entitled to the protection of that law.

BUT HE WAS BLACK, and now HE IS DEAD!

And the whole state seems determined to give his killer a free pass.

As for the voice recognition "expert" who fudged any answer, he wasn't the only one who did those tests, just the only one who wouldn't commit to an opinion.

Why were the others not called?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 08:09 PM

""The testimony was in the pre-trial hearings, although Nakasone was called back and gave his opinion(s).""

Yet they allow all Zimmerman's cracker mates to testify that it was his voice, one after the other, against the one statement from Martin's parents.

Such wonderfully even handed (WHITE) American justice!

And Bruce talks about Zimmerman as a lynch mob victim.

Ope season has been declared on Floridian black kids, God help 'em!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 08:10 PM

Pretty logical arguments, Don...

Ones that are completely lost of right winged, gun nut Republicans who think that murdering blacks is just fine...

We all know how this would have gone down if the races were reversed... That's not an argument... It's just reality...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 08:14 PM

""If a black man were convicted on as little evidence as has been presented, you would be ( rightfully) screaming about the rush to judgement.""

So answer my bloody question!

Do you seriously believe that a black man wouldn't have been tried convicted and on Death Row by now, had the situation been reversed?

Of course he would! And that is exactly what is wrong with the US.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 08:17 PM

Southern justice ain't justice...

I've seen it all my life...

It is disgusting... We have not moved out of Jim Crow's neighborhood... We just act nicey, nice... No changes behind that "grinnin' in your face"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 08:21 PM

""Hence, the judge allowed a parade of "witnesses" on both sides to give their opinion(s). Martin's mother said it was her son, friends of Zimmerman said it was him. Nobody was exactly objective.""

No Peedee, a parade of Zimmerman's friends (trustworthy and open minded of course....no bias) against a grieving mother of a dead child.

I know which one is less likely to have the will or stamina to stand up and LIE in court, and if you are honest, so do you.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 09:50 PM

Why is it that those who seem to hate President Obama the most also appear to be the same ones who want to see George Zimmerman acquitted?

What is the common denominator here?

(Strokes chin, deep in thought. . . .)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 10:18 PM

It's so interesting to see the peace loving, 'so-called liberals' getting so worked up over rooting for a weak case, and ignoring the evidences that they've become such peace loving, 'so-called liberals'..yet the saddest part of it all, is watching you destroy yourselves over it, and in your rhetoric, trying to inspire, MORE of the racist filled hate that you claim to hate!
Let's not kill the nigger..kill the crackers!

Simply amazing!

Bobert, man like I've grown to love you, if you will...it is REALLY a bummer, for me to watch you insist that you'd be 'successful' at turning people to hate one another..in the name of some sort of retribution, because they were hated before...and now we can hate back...and be supported by other haters!....maybe you can recruit some really GOOD haters...then you can be proud of yourself. Firth can Knight you into the 'The Golden Order of Intelligent Haters'.
This cannot be a wonderful energy going through your music, either...in fact, your vitriol is pretty fucking ugly! Don T's is just stupid...but your is ugly! Firth just grabs anything that sound like it can be made into a political crisis, and needs HIS resolution, NOW, or be deemed a bigot hater!!
Hey man, if I saw you playing on the railroad tracks and i knew a train was coming, I'd yell at you to get off the tracks....only to find you arguing with me that the train was a concoction of the TEA Party Express!...even as it gets closer and closer.
Some things are just NOT a 'political' event...some are just stupid things that political people promote as political...hey, you know what?..Fuck 'em.
I just hope that NOBODY who you talk to, or who might read your posts, gets 'inspired' to 'rally' or protest or in anyway promote, which results in violence that results from this, act of stupidity..or YOU will be as responsible as you claim Zimmerman was in instigating it...GET OFF THE TRACKS!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 11:11 PM

I've always wondered what "blithering" meant in the expression "blithering idiot."

Now, I know.

Thanks for the demonstration, Goofy!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 11:13 PM

Your welcome...glad you understood it!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jul 13 - 11:58 PM

Your graphic demonstration made it quite clear, thank you.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 12:29 AM

You're welcome, glad you understood it.

I suppose to you, people instigating hate, makes more sense, huh?

Or political jerk-offs, politicizing a stupid act, makes sense to you?..well, OK.

Ya' mind if others don't subscribe to your dark 'reality'?..or do you HAVE to get a power geez, in getting people to hate??

To me...that is a blithering idiot...you might not see it that way..but really, so what?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 01:16 AM

You don't have to keep demonstrating, Goofy.

I got it the first time.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 07:19 AM

Goofus just doesn't get it.

HE is the one making this political, when in fact it is PURELY a race issue.

He just can't admit that a black kid in the Southern US lives with racial animosity from white people from his first day at school until the day he dies.

What policeman would believe that, in a face to face confrontation, with the available choice of gun or phone, Zimmerman reached for the phone?

Only one who didn't want to see an honorary white man go to jail for killing an insignificant black kid.

Martin must have feared that Zimmerman was reaching for a gun, and if he did, then his actions were self defence, even in Florida.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 07:24 AM

Of course, in know-it-all Goofus' mind, there's nothing rotten in a society which allows a punch to be repaid with a bullet, and calls THAT self defence.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 07:34 AM

IF I am being beaten, with no sign of an end to it, how close to death must I be before I can fire the single shot?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: bobad
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 07:39 AM

"IF I am being beaten, with no sign of an end to it..."

"A witness in the George Zimmerman trial described his wounds as "insignificant" and "non–life threatening." Dr. Valerie Rao, a medical examiner, made the determination after reviewing video and photographs of Zimmerman after his deadly confrontation with Trayvon Martin.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 08:10 AM

Yes. He declined medical attention and walked.

IF I am being beaten, with no sign of an end to it, how close to death must I be before I can fire one shot in self defence?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Saniy
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 08:50 AM

Don(Wyziwyg)T: "Goofus just doesn't get it.
HE is the one making this political, when in fact it is PURELY a race issue."

Oh???Is that a fact????.....Take your pick!.. Read well!!!


Now compare that to this.....and BOTH are funded by our tax dollars!

Like I Said, Brainy:

I suppose to you, people instigating hate, makes more sense, huh?

Or political jerk-offs, politicizing a stupid act, makes sense to you?..well, OK.

Ya' mind if others don't subscribe to your dark 'reality'?..or do you HAVE to get a power geez, in getting people to hate??

To me...that is a blithering idiot...you might not see it that way..but really, so what?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 08:53 AM

The UK's CPS guidelines.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/self_defence/#Reasonable_Force


Since the availability of a gun (as in Zimmerman's case) would have been unlawful in the UK in and of itself, I do not see that Zimmerman's use of the gun could have been reasonable.

Comparably the UK coroner has found this shooting to be an unlawful death -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23193571

We await hearing whether the police marksman involved is to be prosecuted. The deceased was in a car with at least three guns, was a career criminal, but the marksman's evidence that he thought the deceased was trying to shoot at the marksman and had failed to go down after being shot 6 time, when the marksman delivered a classic "double tap" headshot was rejected by the coroner. Because it was an inquest not a prosecution it has come out that the marksman has killed twice before - which may make a fair trial by UK standards hard to achieve.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 08:58 AM

how close to death must I be

Foolish question. When, exactly, was Zimmerman within a thousand yards of being "close to death", Keith?

I've rec'd worse injuries from playing with an aggressive hamster.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 09:14 AM

We know, Greggie boy. And I am still looking for more duct tape for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 09:24 AM

OK, I am not disagreeing Greg.

IF I am being beaten, with no sign of an end to it, how close to death must I be before I can fire one shot in self defence?

Vision going?
Losing consciousness?
Breathing impaired?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 09:25 AM

Yeah, Beardy, I expect you used up the last supply to stem the postarrhoea as suggested. Your customary horseshit has been conspicuously absent for almost 24 hours.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 09:28 AM

From Richard's link.

In assessing the reasonableness of the force used, prosecutors should ask two questions:

was the use of force necessary in the circumstances, i.e. Was there a need for any force at all? and
was the force used reasonable in the circumstances?
The courts have indicated that both questions are to answered on the basis of the facts as the accused honestly believed them to be (R v Williams (G) 78 Cr App R 276), (R. v Oatbridge, 94 Cr App R 367).

To that extent it is a subjective test. There is, however, an objective element to the test. The jury must then go on to ask themselves whether, on the basis of the facts as the accused believed them to be, a reasonable person would regard the force used as reasonable or excessive.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 09:34 AM

Let me tell ya'll something... I saw Zimmerman's attorney acting out what he would like the jury to believe... If Martin had been in that position then Zimmerman's injuries would be much worse... I mean, you give me 5-10 seconds to pound away and your face is going to look like raw hamburger... The injuries seen in the pictures of both the back of the head and the face are not consistent with reality...

But don't believe me... Take your ignorant selves down to any MMA dojo and ask the sensei...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 09:36 AM

(CNN) -- The George Zimmerman investigation was hijacked "in a number of ways" by outside forces, said the former police chief of Sanford, Florida.
Bill Lee, who testified Monday in Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial, told CNN's George Howell in an exclusive interview that he felt pressure from city officials to arrest Zimmerman to placate the public rather than as a matter of justice.
"It was (relayed) to me that they just wanted an arrest. They didn't care if it got dismissed later," he said. "You don't do that."
When Sanford police arrived on the scene on February 26, 2012, after Zimmerman fatally shot unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, they conducted a "sound" investigation, and the evidence provided no probable cause to arrest Zimmerman at the scene, he said.
It had nothing to do with Florida's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law, he said; from an investigative standpoint, it was purely a matter of self-defense.

Zimmerman told police he killed Martin after the teen attacked him. While the evidence at the time corroborated that claim, the ex-chief said, Lee's lead investigator made a recommendation that Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter.
It was a matter of protocol, Lee said. Arresting Zimmerman based on the evidence at hand would have been a violation of Zimmerman's Fourth Amendment rights, he said. Thus, the Sanford police presented a "capias request" to the state's attorney, asking that the prosecutor determine whether it was a "justifiable homicide," issue a warrant for arrest or present the case to a grand jury.
"The police department needed to do a job, and there was some influence -- outside influence and inside influence -- that forced a change in the course of the normal criminal justice process," Lee said. "With all the influence and the protests and petitions for an arrest, you still have to uphold you oath."
"That investigation was taken away from us. We weren't able to complete it," he said.
One example involved the 911 tapes, in which neighbors implored dispatchers to send police as a voice in the background screamed for help.
The Sanford police intended to release the tapes once the probe was over, Lee said, because you can't publicize evidence amid an investigation.
Instead, the mayor told him on March 16 the tapes had been released to Martin's family and the public. The family was asked to help identify voices, Lee said, but if police were in charge of the investigation, they wouldn't have presented evidence to a group.
"It should be done individually so there's no influence on the other people in the room," he said. "Then, there's no questions that can be brought up about how (an identification) was obtained or whether it was influenced."
I'm happy that at the end of the day I can walk away with my integrity.

Releasing the evidence to the public was problematic, as well, because it created the potential for someone to concoct a "story about what they observed when they really didn't observe it," he said.
Martin family attorney Jasmine Rand said that she doesn't believe that playing the tapes to a room full of people "makes any difference to the outcome of the case."
"We have to remember that that was played for the family in a private room because they were hearing the last moments of their son's life as he cried for help," Rand told CNN's Erin Burnett on Wednesday night. "And I think Sybrina Fulton (Martin's mother) got up and walked out of that room. She didn't sit in there and talk to everybody, because she had a visceral reaction when she heard her son yell for help and she couldn't help him because she knew he was dead."
Lee was placed on paid leave March 22, 2012, after the Sanford City Commission expressed a lack of confidence in him. The same commission rejected his resignation in a 3-2 vote a month later, with dissenting commissioners questioning the fairness of Lee's losing his job.
Two months later, Lee was sacked. City Manager Norton Bonaparte said in a news release, "The police chief needs to have the trust and respect of the elected officials and the confidence of the entire community."
Lee believes lack of confidence did play a role in his dismissal, he told CNN, but he also believes Bonaparte faced political pressure and terminated him "without cause," which was permitted under his employment contract.
"I upheld my oath," Lee said. "I'm happy that at the end of the day I can walk away with my integrity."
Rand told CNN that Lee lost his job because he "failed to conduct a fair and impartial investigation."
"I personally thank God that he doesn't have the ability to fulfill his vision to uphold an arcane practice that has no place in our legal system," Rand said.

Asked whether he would do things differently given the opportunity, Lee, a 30-year veteran of law enforcement, said there always are things he could change in hindsight, but he stands by the investigation.
At every turn in the 40-minute interview with CNN's Howell, Lee doggedly defended his investigators, saying race never played a role in any decision and that his officers "conducted an unbiased review."
Investigators knew letting Zimmerman walk free for 46 days was an unpopular decision -- and they took abuse for it -- "but they performed professionally. That's the mark of a strong police department."
Lee took issue with the media casting his department as apathetic or lackadaisical in the case.
"A lot of the information that was given out as fact was misinformation," he said. "It was reported in some media that we didn't conduct an investigation for two weeks, but yet in that same media they would show a photograph of a crime scene with crime scene tape, with patrol cars and blue lights and investigators on the scene."
Lee shrugged off the notion that he was hired to clean up racism and other problems in the department. His goal upon becoming chief was to improve professionalism and trust, and he set several goals, all of which were met during his 10-month tenure, he said.
One of his greatest regrets, he said, is that the Zimmerman investigation ultimately shattered his childhood dream to be police chief of the community where he was raised.
"It's a dream of a vision that is going to be unrealized," he said. "I'm at peace with it on most days. I'm a man of faith. But it stings."


http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/10/justice/sanford-bill-lee-exclusive/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 09:41 AM

Testifying for the defense earlier in the day was Dennis Root, a safety and law enforcement instructor who is also a use of force consultant.

Root testified that he offered his services to Zimmerman's lawyers after hearing about the shooting on the news. Once hired, Root said he reviewed evidence in the case including 911 calls, witness statements and reports from police and the medical examiner.

Root also evaluated the physical capabilities of Trayvon and Zimmerman and said he found that Trayvon was "physically fit" while Zimmerman was "not a fighter." Zimmerman would have been "lacking," in a fight with the teen, Root said.

Evidence and photos of Zimmerman's injuries illustrate that there was a fistfight and support Zimmerman's story, Root told the jury.

"It's clear he was struck and his head made contact with the concrete," said Root, who also interviewed Zimmerman to form his opinion. Zimmerman would have found himself physically "lacking" in a confrontation with Trayvon, Root said.

Later, O'Mara asked Root whether Root believed Zimmerman had any other option than to shoot Trayvon.

"I don't believe he did," Root replied.

http://www.freep.com/usatoday/article/2504917

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 09:46 AM

So, Bobert, that would indicate that Zimmerman was correct in being in fear for his life.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 10:23 AM

All that being said, this case is being used, to foment civil unrest..and those fomenting it don't really give a damn about Martin, his family, the merits of the case, evidence, even race...they are just looking for a hot button issue, and this is it(or one of them).
For me personally, I'm not into 'trying the case' in the Mudcat forum, or in the press, or at the coffee shop...what DOES concern me, and you as well, though you might not be aware of it....YET...is the deceitful, manipulation of some VERY evil people, opportunists of the worst kind, to suck people into the re-action, that they've been organizing, since the beginning!!..before they even knew the facts or the outcome...AS YOU HAVE SEEN!! Don't fall into it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Matter of fact, you should recognize and mark those who are doing this, promoting it, fanning it, and pay very little or no attention to them. They are shills, either unwitting ignorant, or consciously in on it. They don't give a damn about the race issue, except to exploit it, for some VERY twisted political end..that has NOTHING to do with correcting the ills of the past! ..or even having genuine compassion for anyone but their own political avarice!
Walk away...GET OFF THE TRACKS!!
How much more evidence do you need?????????..You, and a lot of other people are being conned!. Don't go for it!...Learn a new tune.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 10:37 AM

Bullshit on both counts, GfinS...

You are one of the most rabid Zimmerman defenders here... Any argument that might implicate your hero is met with reams and reams of rebuttal... You are no different from the other one here...

As for me not caring about Martin??? Like I said, "Bullshit on both counts"... If I, along with others here, didn't care about Martin we wouldn't be so bugged by the disrespect that the Florida cops, prosecutors and the judge are showing Martin...

Anymore mythology you'd like to share with us???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 10:45 AM

Authorities are concerned that flash mobs angry at the verdict could use Twitter to organize similar unrest. As we reported last week, a plethora of individuals have promised to stage riots and looting if George Zimmerman is found not guilty. The latest round of controversy focused on popular clothing brand 'Illuminati' – which yesterday tweeted to over a million followers, "The Only Justice for Trayvon Martin is to take the Life of George Zimmerman."
The case already sparked looting by Trayvon Martin supporters last year when gangs of teenagers ransacked a Walgreens in north Miami in reaction to the fact that Zimmerman had not yet been arrested.
Detective Munib Ahmed outlined a plan to calm irate Trayvon supporters via Twitter during last night's meeting, remarking, "What we're concerned about is all the people starting rumors or instigating fights [through social media]. So we're trying to get ahead of the game [and] quell the fight before it starts."
Pastor Michael K. Anderson, of New Jerusalem First Baptist Church in Hollywood also called for Twitter to be used to quell disorder. "They'll hear a lot of [rumors] but they'll know the truth if they're following us [on social media]," he stated.
Numerous prominent voices, including former Chicago cop Paul Huebl have warned that the outcome of the trial will lead to riots that could surpass those seen in the aftermath of the Rodney King beating.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 10:45 AM

On Tuesday, the popular clothing line Illuminati issued a tweet calling for the murder of George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer on trial for the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, Twitchy reported.

"The Only Justice for Trayvon Martin is to take the Life of George Zimmerman, (sic)" Illuminati tweeted.

The tweet angered a number of Twitter users, some of whom demanded Twitter ban the account.

"@twitter, please BAN @ThelIluminati ~ they are OPENLY CALLING FOR MURDER. If you don't, we will take legal action," one person tweeted.

As of this writing, the short message was retweeted over 770 times.

Twitchy said that many agreed with the tweet's sentiments, but others held a different view.

"It is a crime to call for the murder of an individual, right? @TheIlluminati is essentially inciting violence against #Zimmerman," one person tweeted.

The Illuminati account has well over a million followers, and appears to be the official account for a clothing brand that deals in conspiracy theories and offers t-shirts with slogans like "F**k the Police" and "United Snakes of America."

No mention of the tweet was seen at Illuminati's website or Facebook page, but the message caused quite a stir on Twitter.

This is not the first time Twitter users have called for Zimmerman to be murdered.

Recently, a number of people threatened to kill Zimmerman if he was acquitted, and others said they would murder random white people.

Celebrities like Roseanne Barr and Spike Lee have stirred the pot, as have civil rights figures like Jesse Jackson and MSNBC host Al Sharpton.

On Monday, Mark O'Mara, Zimmerman's attorney, told CNN's Piers Morgan that his client would never be safe if he is acquitted, due to the fact that many would never accept the evidence presented in the case.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 10:48 AM

On Thursday, Twitchy reported that the social media site Twitter has exploded with death threats against George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer on trial for the shooting death of Trayvon Martin. Twitchy said that several also threatened to kill random white people if Zimmerman is not found guilty.

Most of the tweets captured by Twitchy were racist and profane in nature.

"I'll kill him," tweeted "Lindsey Franco."

"Watching the Zimmerman Trial. If he don't get life ill kill him myself (sic)," said the ironically named "Love." The tweet was deleted, but not before Twitchy captured it.

"Trayvon Martin need justice ! Gimme me tha pistol ill kill Zimmerman myself," declared another Twitter user.

One person offered to kill Zimmerman for $20, and several said they would murder random white people.

"If they don't kill Zimmerman Ima kill me a cracka (sic)," said one person, using a racial term for white people that Mediaite's Tommy Christopher said is a "proud nod to the region's history, and one's own ancestry."

"If George Zimmerman win I'm gonna kill a fat white boy dat look lik George Zimmerman I swear lol (sic)," tweeted "Creeplife."

Last year, Martin supporters flocked to Twitter, using the site to express their desire to see Zimmerman killed.

The volume of threats was so high that a member of the family wrote the Seminole County NAACP, saying blood would be on their hands if Zimmerman was harmed.

The unidentified family member said "the rest of the racists that have rushed" to judge Zimmerman will also have blood on their hands if he is hurt.

"You need to call off the dogs. Period. Publicly and swiftly," the letter added.

The New Black Panther Party put out a $10,000 bounty on Zimmerman's head with a "Wanted Dead or Alive" poster and issued calls to murder white people.

"Kill these racist honkeys, these crackers, these pigs, these pink people, It has been long overdue!" the group said in a tweet that has since been deleted.

From the beginning, the Zimmerman case has brought out the worst in many people, including some in Congress who prejudged Zimmerman to be racist without knowing all the facts.

Civil rights activists like Jesse Jackson and MSNBC's Al Sharpton used the shooting to whip up racial strife in the country.

The FBI, however, said in a report that racism was not a factor in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 11:06 AM

Walk away....just as Zimmerman OR Martin should have...walk away!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 11:16 AM

Martin tried...

He told his girlfriend that he was being followed...

"Followed???"

Doesn't that imply he was walking away???

Logic 001 (remedial, non-credit for boneheads)

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 11:20 AM

Only Bobert would consider jumping on someone and beating their head against the ground after being asked what he was doing to be "walking away.

It looks like it has been determined who threw the first punch- yet that is not enough for the Zimmerman haters here.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 11:26 AM

btw, Bobert, there is no "guilty by reason of public opinion".

The verdict, if just, should be based on the evidence presented, and not the fear of what might happen if the "wrong" verdict is rendered. That is what you have complained about happening in the past to black defendants: Are you so sure you want to establish it as being valid here as well? That would justify all those past trials as being "just as valid".

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 11:39 AM

""IF I am being beaten, with no sign of an end to it, how close to death must I be before I can fire one shot in self defence?

Vision going?
Losing consciousness?
Breathing impaired?""

Of course, with the ground at your back, an assailant who weighs 156 lb, you could use your superior weight (204 lb, a three and a half stone advantage) to simply throw him off (simple enough, anybody who has changed a gearbox without removing the engine has done as much (130 - 150lb for a family sized car)).

No he's only a crooked black kid and he's given you the excuse you need.

Easier and more satisfying (maybe even heroic if he turns out to be the crook you estimate him to be) to shoot him.
_______________________________________________________________

Think about the converse: Based on your experience as a black youth in Florida, you see the guy who just challenged you reach for a pocket.

You believe he may be going for a gun, and you fear he will use it.

He isn't a cop! Is he a mugger?......What do you do.

1. Do nothing. Just wait for the bang?
2. Turn and run and wait for the bang?
3. Grab him and make sure he doesn't reach that pocket?

Doesn't Florida's own "Stand your Ground Law" cover you for that?

Well NO! NOT IF YOU ARE BLACK! That law is only for real people.

And, for Goofus' benefit, that isn't promoting race hatred! It is exposing the level of institutional racism in the Southern States and specifically in Sanford Florida, where it is apparently a Capital Offence for black people to do their shopping after dark.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 11:46 AM

So, Don, you are saying that if Bobert was on top of me, beating the crap out of me, I would have no problem pushing him off before he could hurt me? I have a few pounds on him...


Bobert: "I mean, you give me 5-10 seconds to pound away and your face is going to look like raw hamburger.."

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 12:39 PM

""So, Don, you are saying that if Bobert was on top of me, beating the crap out of me, I would have no problem pushing him off before he could hurt me? I have a few pounds on him...""

No BB! I'm saying that you would be capable of rolling and throwing him off before he could begin to beat you to a pulp!

And so could Zimmerman if he hadn't been so intent on reaching for old Betsy!

In the UK, I wouldn't have to worry about getting a gun out of my pocket (since they are rightly illegal), so whoever was on top of me would be leaving PDQ, and probably singing soprano for a week, unless he outweighed me by a considerable margin.

I'm 72 and I reckon

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 12:39 PM

Right, Don...

There doesn't seem to be any logic in the defense's "story"... It has more holes in it than swiss cheese...

Here's what we do know to be factual:

1. Zimmerman profiled Martin

2. Zimmerman called police

3. Zimmerman was told by the police to stay in his vehicle

4. Zimmerman disobeyed police and got out of his vehicle with a gun

5. Zimmerman followed Martin

6. Zimmerman shot and killed Martin

Those events are not in dispute...

Here's the defense's story about the events:

1. Martin attacked Zimmerman - Not likely... See Don T's comments on the size differential...

2. Martin got Zimmerman down on the ground - Not likely... Again, the size differential makes that claim very doubtful

3. Zimmerman was the one who screamed for "help" - Not likely... Someone yelled for "help", a shot was fired a second later and that voice was not heard again...

Here's what else we know:

1. Zimmerman lied in court when he was asked if he had money for his defense...

2. Zimmerman lied in court about not having an understanding of Florida's "stand your ground" and "self defense" laws...

Here's where the court (judge) has made serious mistakes:

1. No gag order thus allowing Zimmerman's attorney free shot at poisoning the jury pool...

2. Not permitting prosecution to present "expert witnesses" who were well versed in voice recognition technology...

3. Permitting a stream of Zimmerman's friends to testify that the voice on the tape was Zimmerman's...

That pretty much sums up this case...

Of course, the Zimmerman worshipers here will take the above facts and twist and twist on them because they are the facts... They will play head games with words and try to make chicken salad out of chicken shit... All the twisting in the world doesn't change the facts... It's just wishful thinking on their part...

And in the words of the late Walter Cronkite, "And that's the way it is..."

B~

(Note to bb: I'm sure that you have been trying to bait me but I don't read your posts because you do not have anything rational to say any more so write whatever you want... I'll skip right on by you...)

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 12:42 PM

Guess I spoke too soon; another bout of BullshitBruce chronic bloody postarrhoea. Apparently his duct tape suipply ran out after all.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 12:46 PM

For fuck sake. You people are for the most part Americans. I cannot believe in all honesty how any of you expected a fair trial when it comes to a dead Black kid.

Back in the early days a car driven by a White guy struck two Black men walking along an Alabama road. One man was thrown 140 feet and the other went through the car's windshield. Both barely survived. One was charged with leaving the scene of an accident and the other with breaking and entering.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: pdq
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 01:04 PM

This is no time for comedy GUEST,anon (as if we do not know your real identity).

If Zim is not convicted, there will be race riots as stirred up by Eric Holder, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and the sympathetic "news" people.

Only question is whether 1000 will die or 10,000.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 13 - 01:16 PM

So, why bother with a trial at all, since the verdict has been determined by popular opinion? If he is not found guilty, he will be free for as long as it takes the government to come up with a "star chamber" trial to make sure he gets convicted.

And this is what passes for justice...


I hope all are just as happy the next time, when the precedent is used to railroad someone because of opinion as fanned by the press.