BS: Christmas for Dad

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: GUEST,Puzzled
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 07:26 PM

I'm signing in as a GUEST for once, because in this case a certain level of anonymity seems a good idea.

I just want to run this situation past people, to check reactions.

My wife's father is in his mid 90s, and lives in a village a few miles away from us in the south of England. He lives alone since my mother-in law died twelve years ago. He's a bit less steady than he used to be, not surprisingly, and now has a stair-lift, but he manages pretty well. We see him regularly and pick him up to come over to visit nearly every Sunday; and for all those years (and more before) he's stayed with us over Christmas. We also look after him when he's ill.

That's fine - but my wife has been thinking that, just for a change, maybe for once she and I could get away for Christmas this year. There's one sibling, her brother, who lives and works in the north of England. So perhaps, we suggested, he could take over and make sure dad had a good Christmas.

What we had in mind (though we didn't suggest it) was that maybe he and his wife could come down and stay in the large house their daughter, who is going to be out of the country over the Christmas period, has bought a few miles from where we live.

Instead the brother comes back with a suggestion that we should persuade dad ("twist his arm") to go up to their end of the country for Christmas. They can't see their way to look after him in their own house - so the brother's found out about a care home nearby where dad could be booked in. He told us about it in an email:

"Have now had a chance to visit the home ... My heart sank when I walked in because there were poor old souls asleep or staring into space. But that's because the entrance is via the dementia unit." Well, that didn't sound too good an idea. Still, when we read that far we thought, at least he's making an effort of sorts.

But then came the bit that really rather took us aback: "It would cost dad £120 a night, which doesn't seem too bad to me to cover meals and nursing care." Moreover, he suggests that dad, aged 96, should be put on a plane at our local airport (having never flown in his life), and travel unaccompanied, to be picked up at the airport up there.

So, dad is invited for Christmas, but not to stay in the brother's house. And it's assumed that he should pay for his own accommodation and make his own way there. (NB the brother is pretty well-off.)

I can see we won't be getting away for Christmas, because there's no way Dad would be on for this arrangement, even if we were. But we think he'd be deeply hurt if he ever got to know about this response.

It's tricky even knowing how to reply to the brother's email. Any comments and suggestions?

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: artbrooks
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 07:42 PM

I suppose that...never mind. I remember when my mother-in-law, who had flown many times, came out to visit us at age 86, and the cabin crew "didn't notice" that she was still in her seat. She was eventually found by the cleaning crew, while we were frantically searching the airport.

I'd suggest a short "sorry, but we don't think that would work" note, and scratch them off your support list. It doesn't appear that they want to be bothered.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: Amos
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 07:49 PM

I am inclined to go with Art's idea also. This is not a line that will prove responsive. How about the daughter with the large house?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: Alba
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 08:29 PM

I feel so sad and a bit angry reading your Thread, Puzzled. How awful for your Wife and yourself and your Dad to be treated this way (and by email into the bargain..yuk!) I mean why not simply call and say to you both "No can do. I don't really want my Dad here for Christmas". That, at least would be honest. A Nursing Home for Christmas! Now why didn't you or your Wife think of that....eh because you care about this Man of course.
My inclination would be to just forget about the Brother in Law, literally, and reply to his "email" simply saying that you have changed your minds about going away this Year for Christmas. (Of course I wouldn't give a reason as this person is not deserving of one. If he can't figure out what is wrong with his sorry offer then.....insert appro nasty word here..... him!)
I would, myself, be very reluctant to tell the old Fellow about his Son's mean and meaningless offer. Some things are just too hurtful to pass on.


My very Best Wishes to You and your Wife and Dad.
Jude

PS: If you all lived closer I would be delighted to host Christmas for your Father in Law. I miss my Father so much. He would have been 87 this Christmas. The Holidays are not the same without him.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 09:01 PM

Sounds like they need a good talking to. Why tip-toe around and let them think you approve or are even considering this "option?" Put your cards on the table, ask why they would even consider arranging a visit if it is under these circumstances? Don't wait for them to come up with any bright ideas, go ahead and make the suggestion you have in mind. Either it will happen or it won't, but don't subject your father-in-law to a holiday in the Twilight Zone. And you won't enjoy your vacation knowing he's in that kind of place, so why bother considering it?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: The Walrus
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 09:23 PM

I think that, whatever the message sent to BinL, I'd add the sincere wish that he receive the same type of treatment from HIS children when the time comes.

W

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: JennyO
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 10:44 PM

This gives me the horrors just reading it - in fact, I'm fuming! This could be any of us in a few years' time. Imagine being poor old dad suddenly being made to catch a plane to spend Christmas in a strange nursing home. He would probably think he's been dumped there - possibly for longer - because nobody cares about him any more.

I wouldn't mince words with the brother. I would let him know how disgraceful you think his "offer" really is, then have dad home for Christmas as you normally do. I can't see you having your holiday away this Christmas either, but later on when dad is gone, you'll be glad you did the right thing. As SRS said, you wouldn't enjoy yourselves on a holiday, knowing where he is anyway, and if something happened to him, you would never forgive yourselves.

I'm afraid you might have to "bite the bullet" here, and please don't ever tell dad about this horrible "offer". It would be hurtful to him.

It reminds me of a TV series that used to be here in Oz, called "Mother and Son". Your wife's brother reminds me of the rich but uncaring brother whose idea of a solution was to "throw money at it". Those who have seen the show will know what I'm talking about.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: KT
Date: 01 Sep 07 - 02:48 AM

I agree with Art-"No, that won't work." If you can find a way to let them know why without creating a divide, fine. But personally, I would keep to how the thought of that plan makes YOU feel (eg. We've decided to stay home since we can't bear the thought of him having to stay in a strange place for Christmas.) rather than telling them what you think of the brother because of his callous suggestion.

Keep in mind, if there is dissension between your two families, your dad WILL pick up on it more than you realize and that will only hurt him. You don't want that to happen.

Best to you and your dad as you work this out.

KT


What happened to the idea of staying at daughter's house?

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: Megan L
Date: 01 Sep 07 - 04:17 AM

Don't know if it would be financially possible but many hotels in Britain do christmas packages. Would it be possible to find one reasonably near and the three of you go together it would give your wife a treat and would perhaps make dad feel special too.

Christmas is a stressful time when families are involved. Hope you find a workable solution for you all.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: gnu
Date: 01 Sep 07 - 10:40 AM

Double, at least, what JennyO, and others, have said.

Megan has an excellent compromise suggestion. I'd go for that or continue as you have... he's 96 and alone.

I have a similar situation and just had more dirt done to me yesterday. As others have said, lock it away in the secret vault and try not to let it bother you.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: jeffp
Date: 01 Sep 07 - 10:48 AM

I would be very tempted to tell the brother-in-law that I would really rather not put Dad in the people kennel for the holiday. But I'm a bad sort.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Sep 07 - 11:58 AM

I've been involved in a number of ways with elder care, respite care, and many of the family dynamic issues in the first post. Some as family, some as partner in ministry.

Here's the thing, and I am NOT talking right or wrong, I'm talking PRACTICALITY.

You need to make changes in elders' routines SLOWLY. Of course you and your wife need a break, and your own Christmas.... but the change to another "tradition" needed to come earlier, with several years' lead time.

Like this: One year, do as usual but add other sibings. Next year, add a short visit away from your home with one of the sibs during the visit to your home-- a few hours. Next year, lengthen that sib visit. Next year, make it an overnighter. Next year, make it at their house with you visiting. Next year, you don't visit.


Of course it didn't happen that way, and we would seldom think of making it happen that way. We're so caught up in NOW, all the time. (So are your sibs.)


Such is the reality of eldercare in our society. It's designed to strain everyone and all their resources, to the limit and past the limit.

So you do the best you can.


He won't be with you that much longer, if you take a long view of this. In our family, we addressed that reality by giving Dad ALL the time we had, and believe me the fam dynamics didn't make that easy or 100% fun. I am sure our marriage "suffered" for the lack of time to go off on our own. But that's what we did, and now we do have time, and we hold it dear and we don't give it away lightly.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: GUEST,Puzzled
Date: 01 Sep 07 - 04:29 PM

Thanks for the response. Some very sensible advice, and more important maybe, a bit of welcome encouragement. Being able to call Mudcat morale boosters has been very helpful.

Still mulling over what to do. Not about Christmas, of course - I'm sure we'll be staying at home and having dad over, God willing. But how to respond to the brother...

Negotiating family life between generations can be pretty complicated, especially with smaller families and longer lives. One great thing with my wife's father is that he is still completely with it, and very interested in the world about him. I was talking to someone today where everything is a lot more complicated and difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: gnu
Date: 01 Sep 07 - 04:38 PM

Good on ya! But, as far as, "But how to respond to the brother...", don't. Just say you are looking at alternatives and thank him for the suggestions and file that ignorant, ill mannered, callous.... um, sorry, stuff away in the secret vault.

The secret vault... either that or plan a vacation to the north so you can punch the asshole in the face personally. But, again, lock that away in the secret vault. He sounds like he's not worth the sore knuckles... but, it is tempting, I would think. I know I certainly am... wishful thinking only.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 01 Sep 07 - 08:04 PM

I think there are other options. He would (hopefully) not begrudge you and your wife a private trip away as long as he is cared for. You could have a little Christmas dinner or special holiday events before or after. You could find a nice caring individual to take care of his needs at home.

Your marriage vows remember are to your wife....he does not need every moment of your life..some..not all...and not necessarily every holiday. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: JennyO
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 12:23 AM

Yes Mary, but to many people, Christmas is not just any holiday - especially if you are a parent who used to delight in "doing" Christmas for your children when they were little. Christmas Day can be really lonely if you are by yourself, like he would be.

Having said that, I've been fairly relaxed about when I celebrate Christmas with my children. I think for the last 2 years we have celebrated Christmas with them slightly earlier so that they could be with their own families on the day. Last year on Christmas Day, we had an open house for "Christmas Orphans" to drop in for nibbles and a few drinks. That was okay, but I would have hated to be sitting at home all by myself that day.

If dad only stays over for a night or two, would it be possible for you and your wife to get away straight after that and celebrate New Years together? After all, this is a situation that is probably not going to go on for too many more years, and .... but then you've already decided anyway, haven't you, and I think it is the right decision.

How does your wife feel about her brother in general? As far as how to respond to her brother about this, the ball is probably in her court. Only she knows whether she wants to try and maintain a civil relationship with him or not. If I was her, I'd be giving him a piece of my mind, but it is up to her in the end. Maybe she needs your moral support to speak her mind to him.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 12:32 AM

I don't know. I think the main obligation here is to the wife, assuming the father is well taken care of, not put in a dirty nursing home etc. Her needs must not be ignored. I would look for other solutions and take the wife on a trip and provide well for the father and have a toast when they returned. And if I was the father I would absolutely insist that this be done. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: Bert
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 02:16 AM

I find that more often than not when a thread is started by a GUEST, then that GUEST is full of shit.

You just start these threads to start trouble. I guess that you are some dipshit like TTCM.

Go away, we don't care about you. Your situations are contrived to create dissent. You don't have a wife or a father or a brother or a father-in-law.

You are full of shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: GUEST,Puzzled
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 04:05 AM

I'm afraid that's not the case this time, Bert. Look in your PMs, Bert and you'll see who I am. As I said in my initial post "I'm signing in as a GUEST for once, because in this case a certain level of anonymity seems a good idea."   

I still think that is the case, and I don't really think there is any need to elaborate on why.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: MBSLynne
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 05:19 AM

I agree with gnu on the subject of what to say to the brother, and with most of the other comments generally.

Whatever you do, don't say anything that will cause a rift in the family, it's never worth it for families to fall out. Ok, so he's being uncaring and insensitive, but some people are. Nothing you say can MAKE him more caring. Perhaps telling him you've decided you can't leave father and go away at Christmas will make him think about his own reaction?

As several have said...he won't be with you for years more, and if you've had him around for Christmas for years, there will be a big gap in the holiday when he does go so to go away then would be a good idea.

And Bert, I think that was unnecessary. I've called on the advice and support of Mudcatters many times and some situations are a bit tricky to publicise to the world when so many people probably know you. Even if the thread were made up, which I don't believe it is, I can't see that it's causing any harm. It's making people think about a situation which is all too common generally.

My mother-in-law is in a care home because she is suffering from the early stages of dementia and I hate the place. It's a nice home with nice people as far as it goes, but it's a waiting room for death. If anyone tries to put me in somewhere like that while I am still in my right mind, I'll be dragged screaming and fighting no matter how old I am

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: JennyO
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 06:13 AM

Same here, Lynne. That's what I've been keeping in mind. Do as you would be done by and all that.

You just start these threads to start trouble. I guess that you are some dipshit like TTCM

Who pissed on your cornflakes today, Bert? And who the hell is TTCM?

Bert obviously thinks he knows something we don't. Assuming he's had a PM from the person and in the event that he has discovered by now that he was wrong, I hope he feels duly chastened and apologises for that outburst.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: JennyO
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 06:30 AM

Mary, I can see what you are saying, but I don't agree. I guess we just have different points of view. It appears they have already decided what to do anyway - and no doubt it was a joint decision.

I'm not saying her needs should be ignored - more that these were balanced up against those of her father on this occasion, and they decided to act for the greater good. Most of us will do that for our loved ones - that's what makes us human. In a few short years, it won't be an issue, and as Lynne says, that will be the time for them to go away.

Meanwhile, what they are asking now is how they should respond to her brother, and as I said before, I think that is really up to her.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: GUEST,Puzzled
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 09:13 AM

Bert's comment was a bit over the top, but I can understand where it comes from - I get fed up with those jokers who every now and then come up with a phony scenario to play with people.

His evident assumption that this story was too extreme to be believable is quite welcome in a way. I'd had a sort of half worry, when I started the thread, that people would be posting saying how unfair we were in our reaction to the brother's perfectly sensible suggestions.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: Desdemona
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 11:05 AM

I'll add my voice to what seems to be the general consensus. A simple, "thanks anyway, but we've rethought the matter," or similar seems sufficient. t least you're perfectly clear what you're dealing with, right? A wise person said, "when people show you who they are, believe them." At least you're perfectly clear about what you're dealing with, right?

~D

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: Bert
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 12:27 PM

Ooops, Sorry there Puzzled!

I just assumed that you were another troll. But you are not, you are a much respected and loved Mudcatter and I'm sorry about my response it must have upset you a lot. You are right it was way over the top.

Artbrooks has probably given the best course of action for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: GUEST,Puzzled
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 01:40 PM

Not to worry - as I said in my post, I was rather pleased to have Bert assume that the story was clearly over the top and made up to tug at the heartstrings.

It just might have been better to have something on the lines of "I'm a bit suspicious this isn't a real story - if that's actually the case "puzzled" is a manipulative bastard who should push off."

The intent is all, in an insult, and where there's no intent there is no insult.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: GUEST,Puzzled
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 03:35 PM

Here is a versified version I wrote today. Sometimes that's quite a good way to get things out of one's system:

"You know the way each Christmas we have dad along to stay.
Well this year, for a change, we thought we'd like to get away.
A chance for him and you to share a Christmas with each other".
I wrote out the suggestion, and I sent it to the brother:
So thank you kindly, brother, take it easy, do not fret.
Your Christmas might be altered, but no need to get upset.
Your Christmas Present won't be quite the same as Christmas Past ,
But think of Christmas Still to Come – well, this might be the last..

I wasn't really teasing, but I had a good idea
That when he got the message then some problems might appear.
But now that dad is 95 there's surely no need to explain
If they don't give him Christmas soon the chance won't come again.
So thank you kindly, brother, take it easy, do not fret.
Your Christmas might be altered, but no need to get upset.
Your Christmas Present won't be quite the same as Christmas Past ,
But think of Christmas Still to Come – well, this might be the last..

"Oh we'd really love to have him, but it's hard to see a way.
Our house has stairs. It's far too small. I'm working Boxing Day..
You say you'd like to get away, but are you really sure?
I really think that dad would sooner come to you once more.
So said the kindly brother, "Take it easy, do not fret.
Your Christmas time together would be better not upset.
Maybe best that Christmas Present is the same as Christmas Past ,
And as for Christmas Still to Come – well, this might be the last."

"But if you really have to go here's how it can be done.
And dad could come and stay up here - it really might be fun.
There is a nursing home nearby, I've been along so see,
And they are sure by Christmas there will be a vacancy.
"My heart quite sank when I walked in to see those poor old dears,
Asleep or staring into space, and clearly unawares
But that's because the entrance is via the dementia ward,
Once past that it gets better, of that I've been assured.
So said the kindly brother, "Take it easy, do not fret.
His Christmas might be altered, but no need to get upset.
His Christmas Present won't be quite the same as Christmas Past ,
But as for Christmas Still to Come – well, this might be the last."

"The price that I was quoted was one twenty pounds a day,
And I'm sure that they would find some easy way for dad to pay.
Just you get him to the airport, he'll be fine to fly alone,
And we'd meet him at the other end and we'd take him to the home."
Well - thank you kindly, brother, take it easy, do not fret.
Your Christmas time won't be disturbed, no need to get upset.
Our Christmas Present will be much the same as Christmas Past ,
Though as for Christmas Still to Come – well, this might be the last.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 06:17 PM

I hope the poem made you feel better, but if my sib sent it to me I'd be royally pissed off. The brother offered what he had. If that's all he had, that's all he had. If you have been in a position to offer more, then good for you, but what if you really couldn't do what you do? How would you want those doing the bulk of the "giving" to treat YOU?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: GUEST,Puzzled
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 06:31 PM

I haven't sent the song to him, and I doubt I will. If I sing it some time and he hears it, big deal, but that's not too likely to happen.

The brother offered all he had it in him to offer, that's true enough. "It would cost dad £120 a night".

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 08:51 PM

If you want a tune for that song, Puzzled, I'd suggest The Garden Where the Praties Grow. Also used for Paddy's Letter.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: mg
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 11:36 PM

not to scare you, but your wife could die before your father. Or you could. Life is short and hopefully sweet. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: Rowan
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 01:22 AM

Most of my suggestions have already been offered but it occurred to me that, because your wife was the one to suggest a Dad-free Christmas and it's her brother who has demonstrated his (in my opinion) lack of filial loyalty, any response to the bro should come from her. You'd know better than we what the actual family dynamics between them might be; it's possible there is some historic dislocation between the bro and the father that has led to the son's inability to bring enthusiastic response to the prospect of having his father in the bosom of his own family over Christmas. Us outsiders mightn't see such things.

I presume her suggestion for a Christmas away with you is a 'general' desire that has gradually crept up on both of you and not driven by something more immediate and specific that couldn't have been predicted. Life can be tough. But, given her Dad's age, the "Christmas to come" without him is probably not too far off. I'd probably err on the side of avoiding rocking the boat with any detailed response to the bro; anyone familiar with folk music knows of the ability for seemingly minor family dissensions to cause unnecessary evils to the nth generation.

Best wishes.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 01:24 AM

No one who is 96 and still has family should have to be alone on a holiday which they are used to spending with family. What happened to honouring our elders?

Puzzled, I am glad you and your wife will be with her dad again this year. I agree, the response to her brother, should come from her, with backup from you, if needed. Is she doesn't feel it is worth the grief and upset it might cause to tell him exactly what she thinks of his offer, then just send a "changed our mind" email and let it go at that. IF she does raise a ruckus, I assume there's a chance it might get back to the old fellow and no one wants that, right?

Just remember, our children learn by example...brother may live to regret not seeing his own father for Christmas. Who knows? Sometimes family dynamics can get so complicated with so many hidden feelings, hurts, agendas, etc.

Wishing you all the best,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: PMB
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 04:33 AM

Does the brother make an effort to support at other times? Has he other commitments? If the answer is no to those questions, and there's no other reason (he's not disabled, sick, poor?), treat him as a freeloader. Get Dad for Christmas, and put this exchange to him- especially the bit about putting him in a home at his own expense- presumably he still has one little lever, his bit of property. The prospect of being cut out of the will could work wonders.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: GUEST,Mrs Puzzled
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 06:06 AM

Thanks to everyone for all the kind and sensible posts. In answer to PMB's question, my brother, who is not disabled, sick or poor, usually visits my father for a few hours a year. We ourselves have other major caring responsibilities which seriously limit our freedom.

I'll probably take the advice given by most people here and just say that we'll deal with Christmas as usual. I really love what gnu wrote "Good on ya! But, as far as, "But how to respond to the brother...", don't. Just say you are looking at alternatives and thank him for the suggestions and file that ignorant, ill mannered, callous.... um, sorry, stuff away in the secret vault. The secret vault... either that or plan a vacation to the north so you can punch the asshole in the face personally. But, again, lock that away in the secret vault. He sounds like he's not worth the sore knuckles... but, it is tempting, I would think. I know I certainly am... wishful thinking only."

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: jacqui.c
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 10:22 AM

Mr & Mrs Puzzled

I do agree with gnu's post here. It really isn't worth your effort to try and get through to your brother. Some people really just don't get it at all and he would probably just be very puzzled himself as to why you were so upset. Just remember, in the future, when your father has gone, that you were the ones who were willing and able to make his Christmas a good time

In your position I would, for the future, have as little to do with my brother as was possible, but I ain't a particularly forgiving type. However, I do believe that life is too short to spend time and effort on those who do not show themselves to be worth it, from my point of view. someone who behaves in such a Scrooge like way would not be, to my mind, worth it.

I hope that you have a wonderful Christmas this and every following year. You will get your break one of these days and will appreciate it so much more when it does come.

If you feel so inclined, could you pm me your address - Christmas is coming!

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: Alice
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 11:04 AM

gnu's advice is good.
I have had to acknowledge that relatives can be toxic to be
in contact with and it is a hard thing to accept. But, once
you realize that blood ties do not make people loving or kind
or even tolerable to be around, you move on with life.
Don't waste any more of your energy on the brother.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: Morticia
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 11:06 AM

From what you said in the initial post, your father in law would not need a nursing home, but a residential home ( completely different beasts) and they are not usually that kind of money in any case unless it's the Ritz.

Perhaps not at Christmas but if at some other time you felt you needed a break, your local social services will help with finding a respite placement, if necessary or just put in extra care while you are away and, if he has capital under £21,500 will also pay the majority of the cost.If you want more information, PM me and I'll do my best to help.

Sorry about your brother, that was a pretty sucky response.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 11:46 AM

The brother is a selfish shit who obviously cares nothing for his father. Maybe that's deserved - I don't know. My Dad was not a saint but when he needed help all of us contributed, visited, took him on vacations and no - we weren't wealthy. And yes - we all had serious problems of our own to deal with.

So Puzzled, what do you do?

Out of respect for Dad and given his age, keep Christmas as you always do and never let him know of this exchange. To the brother: a thanks but no thanks. An angry lecture will fall on deaf ears and possibly make its way back to Dad.

Then plan a special "time away" for you and your wife. The likelihood is that neither you nor she will die before you can make that happen.

It doesn't sound as if you will enjoy a Christmas holiday knowing that Dad is stuck in a nursing home he can't afford surrounded by strangers. Treasure the little time he has left. And keep in mind, when Brother needs a place for Christmas his daughter is not likely to offer him a bed. Someone will always make room for you and be happy to welcome you in.

Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 01:29 PM

Alice, how very true and well-put.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: mg
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 02:26 PM

well forget about Christmas then and go on a trip now. Father does not have to be in a nursing home far away. He can be cared for in his home by local caregivers. Your wife might be saying she has reached her limit and needs a break from the responsibility. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 06:36 PM

Father-in-law lives in a town nearby. No need for a nursing home. I don't wish the old man ill but it is safe to assume that a Christmas vacation will happen over the next few years.
Meantime, Puzzled, you are doing the right thing.
M

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 07:12 PM

Bert, lighten up, bud. This one hurts. Badly. I'd give a LOT to have either one of my parents for just one day, Christmas, whatever.

What I am not and was NOT willing to do was abandon either of them to their Fate. I took care of both of them at home, (and for Dad, in a care home 100 miles from me) until they died.

IMO, the brother could well be quite sorry when it's far too late. Don't mince words with the bro, and just be there and take care of dad.

Strange nursing home indeed.

Sorch, still reeling from the loss of Colin. Life sucks. So, we gotta deal with it. Til we die.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 07:40 PM

Brother of Mrs has put up enough road blocks to be pretty obvious about not wanting dad to come, no matter what he's saying. He probably means well.

If Dad spends so much time with you, YOU are probably who he considers family and is comfortable around. Have you asked him what he wants to do? The environment at his son's home doesn't sound like a very pleasant one for him. I agree with those who say spend Christmas with him. Go on holiday at another time. Ask Brother of Mrs to come for Christmas if you're so inclined - just let him know how much the hotel/bed & breakfast will cost him.

Do what you can for him now, and you won't later wonder if you should have done more. The same is true for all of us and all our loved ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas for Dad
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Sep 07 - 04:35 AM

I like Jeri's suggestion - invite BinL for a holiday and give him the hotel bill - just make it a really good hotel!! But it does need to be your wife who deals with him. Brothers in law are notoriously bad at taking advice from anyone but siblings (in my experience)!

I've had to deal with similar situations where my sister has totally dumped me in it - from 19,000 miles away! When my father died, I learnt a lot of things that didn't make me happy. My sister made no effort to help, other than offer our mother a holiday in New Zealand for a few months. Mother is disabled and unable to walk far, let alone fly 19,000 miles alone. Sometimes people who are distanced from the "problem" cannot understand just what the problem is. If you lead the sort of lifestyle where you consider £120 a night for what amounts to B&B is 'not too bad', then it comes as a huge shock to learn that a lot of people don't HAVE that money to spend, particularly when there is a perfectly good spare room with family.

I suspect that your brother in law has got used to his own family 'traditions' for Christmas and just doesn't see how he can fit dad into them. Caring for a relative is hard work, both physically and mentally and he might be afraid of what it will cost him emotionally. I know that the 2 weeks my mother lived with us before her emigration were the longest 2 weeks of my life!

Good luck with this situation, you have my heartfelt sympathies for what has the potential to become an "interesting" time.

LTS