BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Dec 09 - 03:32 PM

Verily!!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Dec 09 - 04:09 PM

Cuba, although hosting over 2 million tourists per year has the lowest hiv/aids infection rate in the world.

Some details.

LESSONS LEARNED

What has been understood and misunderstood about the Cuban HIV/AIDS program? And what are the lessons from Cuba regarding HIV/AIDS? Some others have attempted to address these questions.

A group of Cuban and French researchers and health professionals surmised that the policy of extensive testing and contact tracing "may be an important factor," as well as education through the public media and schools. However, the rising infections were "worrying," especially among homosexual and bisexual men (39). A detailed report by Gorry stressed the integrated nature of all elements of the Cuban program, suggesting this was a clear "rights-based approach" in terms of privacy, health promotion, peer education, and participation, as well as guaranteed treatment and counseling (40). Gorry considers the major challenges for Cuba to be the impact of the US economic blockade on the health care system, underreporting of infections, the steadily rise in HIV infections among gay and bisexual men, and the persistent cultural stigma toward sexual diversity and the disease (40). With regard to underreporting, however, if the estimates of one Cuban study in 2003 (4) are accurate, this would seem to be less of a problem than elsewhere.

During the past decade, the main developments in Cuba's program have been the rise of the day care program, the Living with HIV courses, the increased role of peer educators, and, since 2001, an ARVT coverage rate of 100%. No neighboring country has this level of treatment. The Cuban infection rate among sexually-active adults has risen gradually in recent years, from 0.1% to nearly 0.15%. Nevertheless, this rate is still well below that of any of its neighbors. The reasons for Cuba's relative success, this paper suggests, are not well understood outside Cuba. During its two-decade experience with HIV/AIDS, Cuba's methods have been alternately ignored or misunderstood. Misunderstandings appear to be most prevalent in the US literature.

Outside views of the testing regime have been criticized through anecdotal material centering on complaints over privacy. Yet the formal practice of targeted testing, patient consent, and legal privacy protection are not so different in Cuba than in many developed countries. Nevertheless, the Cuban emphasis on social responsibility and its related moral pressures do create a distinct climate for testing and thorough contact tracing. It is likely that Cuban health professionals see such moral pressures as a plus, not a problem.

Isolation of patients has played little part in Cuba's program or its success. There has been no quarantine for the past 20 years, a period corresponding to most of the epidemic in Cuba. The 1986-1989 quarantine period was excessive, however it was not aimed at homosexual men, who at that time constituted about 20% of infected persons in the late 1980s. The sanatoria continue to play a lesser, but probably important, role in the HIV program of respite and treatment. However, extended voluntary residence in the sanatoria has led to a new challenge for social inclusion, a concentration of a minority group with high levels of psychological, social, and family support problems.

Cuba's approach to HIV education programs evolved over the 1980s and 1990s by incorporating some important outside influences. "Health promotion" began to supersede "prevention," particularly through peer educator-led activities. Since the 1990s, some international agencies have been directly engaged with HIV education in Cuba.

Finally, one uniquely Cuban feature of the overall HIV/AIDS program has been its strong intersectoral cooperation; that is, the coordinated work of Cuban government agencies, schools, media, and community. HIV education is thus not treated as an isolated program, but is supported by sex education in schools, television programs, and broader "sexual diversity" campaigns.

In spite of the serious effects of the US economic blockade, which limits access to foreign medicine and impedes scientific and professional exchange, Cuba's HIV/AIDS program has drawn on its intersectoral cooperation to help link community education, epidemiological surveillance, targeted testing, and thorough contact tracing. These elements are in turn backed up by a free public health system and a strong commitment to social solidarity. Cuba's experience deserves serious study by those concerned with effective and inclusive approaches to HIV/AIDS.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Dec 09 - 05:07 PM

"The Ugandan bill will pass with a sweeping majority vote in favor of jail and execution of homosexuals."

You may be right but I doubt it.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Dec 09 - 05:09 PM

A considerably more civilized approach than Uganda's!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Dec 09 - 05:15 PM

Cross-posted, Ebbie. I was refering to Ake's post about Cuba's approach to HIV/AIDs.

Ake, I presume the "Gorry" mention in the article is Connor Gorry, the travel writer (Lonely Planet series) who is now based in Havana and has been lately writing about the Cuban health care system.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Dec 09 - 05:16 PM

Ake:

You are a stubborn cuss, which I respect. As such, you have repeatedly said that those of us in favort of extending the civil rights of marriage to the gay community are ignoring the concomitant HIV/AIDs problem.

Quite the contrary. There is no doubt AIDS/HIV is a problem. It just has absolutely no reasonable hard-coupled connection with whether or not minorities should be discriminated against.

No-one claims cancer-victims are discriminated against because they get radiation therapy. But if you tried to deny them the right to marry, you'd be facing serious charges of bringing back extreme eugenics. A really bad idea. I trust the parallel does not escape you.

A


A

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Dec 09 - 05:39 PM

A representative from CDC has replied.

The technical notes to the HIV/AIDS surveillance report are here.

It's too involved to paraphrase it or interpret it. Based on what I DID read, I think changes in reporting requirements, testing methods, and in programs that allow people to be tested for free, may effect the results. You all read it for yourselves if you wish. I need more time to really grok it.

GUEST,999 did good to question the statistics. The biggest problem with statistics is that people often don't know or care what they really mean because they're blinded by their bias.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Dec 09 - 06:15 PM

"the Cuban emphasis on social responsibility and its related moral pressures do create a distinct climate for testing and thorough contact tracing. It is likely that Cuban health professionals see such moral pressures as a plus, not a problem."

Oh, I don't doubt it! Cuba is a pretty monolithic society still..... when the government says "do this!", they are often consequences if "this" is not done.

It would be interesting to see the US try to institute some of the more... ummm... insistent.... aspects of such a program, as in 'moral pressures'.

Still, one can't argue with the basic concept of much education and country-wide programs to highlight the issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Dec 09 - 06:28 PM

Thank you Amos....I think you're wonderful too, but I don't concur with your idea that there is a parallel between hiv infection and cancer.

Hiv rates in homosexuals are rising steadily everywhere,
as opposed to a small but steady drop in new hiv infections in heteros.
This difference must surely be explained by the lifestyle choices made by homosexuals,(extreme promiscuity, anal sex, intentional risk taking, etc) these choices seem to go hand in hand with homosexual practice.......or the statistics are completely wrong.

The risks inherent in homosexuality are well defined, and with the will, relatively easy to avoid, whereas cancer can strike any body at any time and although we can lessen some of the risks (like smoking), cancer is not caused by any particular behaviour....therefore the parallel does not exist.

If the rise in homosexual infection rates continues, the practice should be actively discouraged with a compulsory testing and contact follow up scheme instigated.

Just as they have done in Cuba.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: TIA
Date: 16 Dec 09 - 06:54 PM

Let's try again.

Once there is a vaccine for HIV, will you object to homosexual relationships?

"yes" or "no" will do ake.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Dec 09 - 07:19 PM

As Sanity appears to be busy, I am forced to hold the fort singlehanded; as such I allow myself the luxury of responding mainly to people for whom I have a degree of respect.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Dec 09 - 07:24 PM

Valid question, Ake, whether you respect the person who posed it or not.

Inquiring minds want to know.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Dec 09 - 07:27 PM

Oh, and once again, Ake, it's necessary to remind you:

Homosexual activity does not cause HIV. It may transmit it, but it does not cause it, as you keep saying.

"Spontaneous generation" was a medieval myth.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Dec 09 - 08:20 PM

"...I allow myself the luxury of responding mainly to people for whom I have a degree of respect."

*grin*... I guess I asked too many pointed questions.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Dec 09 - 08:29 PM

Ake:

Sigh. You missed the parallelism I was offering.

CIvil rights are civil rights. Medicine is medicine. Health issues are NOT coupled to civil rights of the sort being discussed here.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Dec 09 - 10:08 PM

It appears to me that ake is going to be talking mostly to himself. We're going to miss him. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 16 Dec 09 - 11:24 PM

But I have great respect for anyone who refuses to answer a simple "yes or no", and in so doing answers it QUITE clearly.
Thanks for your prompt (and rather expected) response.

We shall go forth knowing exactly what each other thinks.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Dec 09 - 11:32 PM

Ake:

Do you think having the possibility of a stable single partner in a relationship supported by social recognition--as in stable hetero marriages--would increase or decrease the incidence of AIDS in a homosexual community?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Dec 09 - 11:33 PM

Well spotted, TIA!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 03:36 AM

Amos... the designation of marriage does not in itself keep a relationship stable, although of course being in a long term monogamous relationship would probably have a beneficial effect on the hiv/aids figures relating to homosexuals.

The trouble is that it seems, in general terms, homosexuals are uninterested in "marriage" or monogamy and seem to prefer the "frisson" of risk taking,hedonism and extremely unhealthy sexual conduct. This behaviour seems to be part and parcel of the homosexual lifestyle.....with a few exceptions.

A regime of testing and contact follow-up, allied to a realistic education policy,would IMO be much more beneficial....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 03:47 AM

Bill....I think I have responded to most points you have made, but if you continue to post in the manner of your last two messages I may have to re-assess our relationship   :0).

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 05:36 AM

Dang!!..I just was winding up a long post, and its 3:30 A.M. here, and I mistakenly closed my tab, and lost it.....I tried getting it back, but to no avail. So I'll get this off, probably tomorrow. Meanwhile, Amos, what did you mean by reversible or 'curable'...Sorta sounds like you think its a disease.....was that a slip?? (No jab intended, but for all those who thought that, why?)
Anyway, I've got some interesting things to share....(wish I didn't close it).........till then, clarify that for me, ok??..
Anxiously waiting to get back,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 04:03 PM

""The trouble is that it seems, in general terms, homosexuals are uninterested in "marriage" or monogamy and seem to prefer the "frisson" of risk taking,hedonism and extremely unhealthy sexual conduct. This behaviour seems to be part and parcel of the homosexual lifestyle.....with a few exceptions.""

If your first point were true, there would be absolutely no reason for the current interest in acquiring the right to marriage, and we still have nothing but your somewhat less than impartial, and far from convincing assertions about what homosexuals prefer.

Have you been sitting in gay bars, taking notes?

If you were to climb down off your pinnacle of false self righteous morality, and visit a few nightclubs, you would be surprised at the volume of evidence of heterosexual promiscuity, just waiting for an accomplished statistician such as yourself.

When you've succeeded in making gays second class citizens, you will undoubtedly need another outlet for your righteous wrath, so maybe I shall have helped you a little in your quest to make the world conform to your cosmic plan.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 04:25 PM

"...I may have to re-assess our relationship   :0)."

I did get a bit pointed, didn't I? ☺ ...I really tried to see a neutral position, based on facts, in your ongoing points, but as you notice, I was not the only one who detected a wee bit of morality-based bias in your opinions. Perhaps a couple hours face-to-face and detailed Q&A would resolve some of them, but here we have only words.

I know the "behavior" you point to...and object to, but how much it is a RESULT of being unable to contract the same 'marriage' types as heterosexuals is unclear. Even IF you were correct about behavioral patterns, you don't seem to be as concerned about "... risk taking,hedonism and extremely unhealthy sexual conduct" in heterosexual individuals. Disease and societal problems (such as rape) are well documented there also.
You see? So many are 'on your case' here because you seem to be making a case for same-sex relationships being inherently more objectionable, and most of the arguments for that are largely subjective.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 05:39 PM

Bill ...Homosexual relationships are objectionable mainly due to the health risks which come with homosexual practice.
I dont care in the least what Don T, Don Frith,Lox,Tia,or any of the "feel good sisterhood think of me,and certainly don't worry about them geing "on my case". If I found them in agreement with my opinions, then I would really worry!

I have read all they have to say on all the Homosexual threads, and understand that they see this matter as a political issue.
They have no real interest in Homosexual wefare, or in addressing the obvious health problems encountered by homosexuals.
Their only interest is in winning a political point; and it is a complete waste of time attempting to engage them in any sort of constructive discussion.

Amos... "CIvil rights are civil rights. Medicine is medicine. Health issues are NOT coupled to civil rights of the sort being discussed here."
Completely untrue, close family members of DIFFERENT sexes who "love" one another and wish to marry or even live in a civil union are forbidden to do so by law.....Their rights are infringed due to unspecified "health issues"

And before you cop out by saying that incest is illegal....Most members of this forum remember when homosexuality was illegal.
If homosexuality was still deemed to be illegal by a bunch of corrupt politicians, would you still be saying that you were in favour of "gay" marriage?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 05:52 PM

Ake:   "They have no real interest in Homosexual wefare, or in addressing the obvious health problems encountered by homosexuals.
Their only interest is in winning a political point; and it is a complete waste of time attempting to engage them in any sort of constructive discussion."

And you, sir, are a bloody liar.

And it is you who refuse to engage in any sort of constructive discussion.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 06:00 PM

Pardon me, Ake, that might have been a bit harsh. Let me put it this way:

You have no qualms about falsifying statistical data, scientific facts, and the motives and intentions of those with whom you disagree.

Well . . . no, that's pretty much what I said the first time.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 06:04 PM

"Homosexual relationships are objectionable mainly due to the health risks which come with homosexual practice.
I dont care in the least what Don T, Don Frith,Lox,Tia,or any of the "feel good sisterhood think of me,and certainly don't worry about them geing "on my case". ake

My, my, how you have changed. It was not too far back in time when you had a LOT more concerns than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 06:26 PM

Fancy a bit of elucidation Ebbie?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 09:03 PM

"They have no real interest in Homosexual wefare"

Unlike you who are helping them ...

... by asserting that they are closet paedophiles, that they are aberrations of nature ...

... and by getting very descriptive about what you imagine they do ...

... with each other and with children ...

You come across just like nick grffin when he tries to convince us that he really loves people with different coloured skin ... all awkward toadying and smarm and sleazy one liners ... all backed up by this twisted ... erm ... wisdom? ... that noone else understands ... all based on your putrid fascination with male homosexual sex ...

... oh yes ... and rape ...

and then just when you think there couldn't possibly be more slime you get this ... ;O)

Yuk!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,TIA (of the feel good sisterhood!)
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 09:06 PM

"Homosexual relationships are objectionable mainly due to the health risks which come with homosexual practice"

So, when there is an HIV vaccine to eliminate the health risks, will you no longer find homosexuality objectionable?

Yes or No will do.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 09:26 PM

Ake, when you show utter contempt for those who don't agree with your pronouncements and try to call their intelligence and personal integrity into question, it's pretty hard to further credit anything you say. As has been said of you by others, you frequently try to discredit an argument you don't like by inventing fictions about the intelligence and motives of the one who puts forth the argument (fallacy of the straw man) and then you attack the person on that basis rather than address their argument (fallacy of the argumentum ad hominem). That's verbal "slight of hand," and an attempt at deliberate deception.

When you try to pull that sort of stuff, it's pretty hard to take anything you say seriously.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 09:37 PM

"Homosexual relationships are objectionable mainly due to the health risks which come with homosexual practice"

Tia,

I read a report in todays Metro which claimed that teenage girls these dayds catch an sti in the first two years of bcoming sexually active.

They then go on to catch one every two years after that.


Not much on its own, but when taken in context of the figures showing that teenage girls and young women are the highest demographic who suffer from chlamiydia, ghonnorhea, HPV and syphiliis, it becomes very sad and concerning.

But obviously they aren't anything to worry about regardless of the long term consequences of these infections ... in the case of HPV, it results ultimately in cervical cancer and can never be cured. (HPV is genital warts in case you didn't know)

If Ake blelieved his own argument he would have to admit that the sexual practices of young heterosexual women are also unhealthy according to his logic.

But I'll stop myself there ... because Ake doesn't give a shit about all that.

He has his blinkers on and he is charging forward with his view regardless of wht other evidence is lying around.

He even asked someone earlier on to leave out inconvenient evidence to make the discussion easier for him.

He is posessed by that very special combnation of loathing and fascination that the sun taps into when it puts an article about paedophiles next to pictures of a 15 year old celebrity sunbathing topless on holiday.

Hipocrisy, self satsfied judgemantalism and sleaze are his trademarks - and his preferred targets are ALL vulnerable minorities - immigrants - "tinkers" and homosexuals.

Sorry Ake but you have been so busted on this thread and on others.

But carry on ... your freedom to spew pseudo philosophical prejudicial bile is unhindered her as it always has been.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 09:51 PM

Oh I forgot ... and moslems ... Ake has a problem with Moslems because his Goan friend told him oall about then so now he knows and he is wise to their ways.

... carry on ...

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Amos
Date: 17 Dec 09 - 11:48 PM

Ake:

Civil rights--not incest--is not a health issue. The guarantee of equal rights under the law will definitely not exacerbate the health issues of homosexuality, and in fact would probably reduce them to some small degree. Allowing equal rights with respect to marriage is if anything an incentive against promiscuity which is a major vector in the health risks you are complaining about.

The health risks you talk about are no more grounds for denying basic civil status of equality than, say, being caught up in a flue epidemic is.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 12:23 AM

ake, you really want me to post some old opinions of yours on gayness and gay practices?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 08:36 AM

Homosexual relationships are objectionable mainly due to the health risks which come with homosexual practice.
I dont care in the least what Don T, Don Frith,Lox,Tia,or any of the "feel good sisterhood think of me...

I have read all they have to say on all the Homosexual threads, and understand that they see this matter as a political issue.
They have no real interest in Homosexual wefare, or in addressing the obvious health problems encountered by homosexuals.
Their only interest is in winning a political point; and it is a complete waste of time attempting to engage them in any sort of constructive discussion"

What is objectionable about homosexual relationships that is not objectionable about other sexuality and practices? Am not sure if I am numbered among the "feel good sisterhood" but I can say that I have no political agenda whatsoever with this thread. The thread was and has become about supporting homosexuals with humanity and fairness. That is not political. It is about treating everyone with the same rules and respect... until they prove otherwise they do not deserve it. I am as interested in homosexual welfare as I am in the welfare of all other human beings... the homosexual tag makes no odds to me. It has no validity in my thoughts and treatment to all genders and sexualities. The PERSON matters. As to people's sexual habits... well this has been done to death but I will repeat once more that ALL sexualities play their part in promiscuity and sexual risk taking. If we are going to make excluions based on a single kind of sexuality, then I consider it to be prejudiced in the least. Singling homosexuals out will not change the statistics for other sexualities.

As for constructive discussion, in the main, this thread has been highly constructive by many despite it being destructive by some. What I have find refreshing is that, as far as bigotry and hate goes, it will get short shrift from the majority here. That shows great hope for the future if catters are the example for the general populous. Death is no trivial matter for any group of individuals but if I am going to get animated and campaign for their health then it has to be an 'across the board' health warning and service for everyone.

I'm happy to be a card carrying member of the liberal minded, feel good sisterhood, if I need to be labelled by those who see it all diferently, but in fact all I really am is an open minded individual who has no axe to grind with anyone who has never done me any harm. Live and let love, I think I said way back at the start of this thread.

Christmas is rapidly coming... is "Good will to all Men (and Women to be inclusive, liberal and fair ;-)   )" to remain some distant dream?

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 12:06 PM

Amos ...as always you are one of the few here who confines himself to addressing the issues, but you dont seem to have grasped the parallel I was making.

I'm rushing out now, but as there doesn't seem to be anybody else deserving of a responce, I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 12:13 PM

Indeed ... none of us is deserving of a responce ...

I wonder which word has been misspelled

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 12:56 PM

". . . there doesn't seem to be anybody else deserving of a responce [sic]. . . ."

Translation:   I don't have a response, so I will simply ignore and hope nobody notices.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 02:36 PM

Even better- the lack of response is a very loud response in itself.
Or maybe he really does not have time to type YES or NO.
Now *that* is a busy fellow.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 02:45 PM

"The bee is such a busy soul,
It has no time for birth control.
And that is why, in times like these,
There are so many Sons of bees."

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 04:41 PM

Hi gang....just got back and I know you've been fretting, so what is there to answer.....hmmm abuse.....oh yes some foul language....more abuse.....bullshit from Don n' Lox (didn't I see that duo play together one time?)....Oh my god! TIA is a woman...now that's a surprise......I woulda never guessed..honest! and I fancy myself as a bit of an expert.

Well TIA, as I am always the gentleman, I will attempt to answer your question.

If a vaccine against aids were to be developed, I would be pleased that lives were being saved, but the fact that we had developed a vaccine, would not make homosexual practice safe or healthy; we would simply be controlling the RESULTS of some the unhealthy physical aspects of homosexuality, and ignoring others like associated psychiatric problems etc.

BTW....I have never "Opposed homosexual relationships", that is for homosexuals themselves to come to terms with.
If they wish to live a lifestyle withall its associated risks that is their own business.

Right from the beginning, I have opposed the promotion of homosexuality by politicians and activists, as a safe, healthy and normal lifestyle. This includes the legalisation of homosexual marriage and the fostering of young children by male homosexuals.


Now, when is someone going to answer my question regarding homosexuality, incest, and civil rights???

Its rather like saying, if prostitutes were guaranteed free from STD's prostitution would be acceptable

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 04:51 PM

Sorry...something went wrong with my eyesight!!

Hi gang....just got back and I know you've been fretting, so what is there to answer.....hmmm abuse.....oh yes some foul language....more abuse.....bullshit from Don n' Lox (didn't I see that duo play together one time?)....Oh my god! TIA is a woman...now that's a surprise......I woulda never guessed..honest! and I fancy myself as a bit of an expert.

Well TIA, as I am always the gentleman, I will attempt to answer your question.

If a vaccine against aids were to be developed, I would be pleased that lives were being saved, but the fact that we had developed a vaccine, would not make homosexual practice safe or healthy; we would simply be controlling the RESULTS of some the unhealthy physical aspects of homosexuality, and ignoring others like associated psychiatric problems etc.
Its rather like saying, if prostitutes were guaranteed free from STD's prostitution would be acceptable!



BTW....I have never "Opposed homosexual relationships", that is for homosexuals themselves to come to terms with.
If they wish to live a lifestyle with all its associated risks that is their own business.

Right from the beginning, I have opposed the promotion of homosexuality by politicians and activists, as a safe, healthy and normal lifestyle. This includes the legalisation of homosexual marriage and the fostering of young children by male homosexuals.


Now, when is someone going to answer my question regarding homosexuality, incest, and civil rights???

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:01 PM

One of the lowest 'risk' groups is lesbians, and they're homosexual.
What this says to me is that if you have sex with a man, you're at risk. If you have sex with a lot of men, you have a lot of risk.

It's not homosexuals who are the problem, it's men.

Granted, if you only have sex with one man, and you're both negative, it doesn't matter who puts what where.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:07 PM

"I too think homosexuality is repugnant,against nature and based on psychological problems. ... the answer is to turn away and let the homosexuals get on with their lives,but unfortunatly this is getting harder and harder to achieve, as "gay culture " ouzes from every media orifice with all its nasty innuendo,like little boys behind the bike shed and god help anyone who tries to stop them."

Hmmmm. I wonder who could have written this?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:13 PM

I don't see anything in Ake's arguments that constitute a strong point against same-sex marriage. If he's really concerned with sexually transmitted diseases, one would think that reducing promiscuity by encouraging stable, monogamous relationships would help that a great deal, hence the argument for same-sex marriage with all the legal benefits and protections thereof.

By arguing against same-sex marriage, Ake contradicts his claim that he is concerned with reducing HIV/AIDs. By wanting to deny it to same-sex couples, he encourages promiscuity.

Don Firth

P. S. Now watch him writhe and twist and call me names.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:13 PM

Just stick to the issues Ebbie!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:14 PM

First, you will definitely need to rely upon your fancied expertise to know whether I am literally a member of the "feel good sisterhood" that you lumped me into.

Second, that was a very good stab at an answer. Thanks.

However, I still disagree that you are purely looking out for the welfare of homosexuals. Jeri's post is a good example of why your assertion can't possibly be the entire story. Here is another: the highest rate of HIV in the world is in Swaziland. Here, due to culture, there is absolutely no (open) homosexual community or meeting places. Transmission is almost exclusively through heterosexual intercourse.

So, would you support (for health reasons of course) the banning of heterosexual relationships in Swaziland?

This is not a clever trap. Call it a consistency check.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:23 PM

Be fair Tia, I would be interested in your response to my question.

And I did not lump you into the "sisterhood"....and not only because I though you were a man!