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BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Richard Bridge Date: 27 Jan 10 - 07:01 PM Well, I think I have Freedom From Sanity (conveniently "FFS") figured out. He's terrified he might by mistake catch something. Now why he's scared of that would be anyone's guess. Maybe it's because his clear cut distinction between the reproductive system and the digestive system would discriminate against the time-honoured courtship ritual of the kiss, and also against oral sex. But I cannot see what Keith is trying to achieve or why, if it isn't (as he says it isn't) a desire to increase prejudice against gay men (funny how it isn't gay women too) and Africans in general (although not, he says, because they are black, or shouldn't be here in the first place, in that in the immigration thread he sought to assure us that his views opposing immigration were in no way based on colour). Ake appears to be adding to the prejudice displayed elsewhere. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 27 Jan 10 - 07:38 PM ""The only thing they want to hear is, I want to do, what I want to do, I have the right to impose that on the rest of society,"" Care to explain just what it is that you think is being "imposed" on society by gays. As far as I can see the imposition is in the other direction, with bigots and homophobes trying their hardest to impose second class citizenship on gays. What part do you not understand of the statement that "95 percent of male homosexuals are HIV negative? Does this gel with claims of mass promiscuity?.....NO! Does it suggest that they are a danger to society?.....NO! Do You, Keith, and Ake have a personal axe to grind?.....HELL YES! You don't like gays, you want them controlled, criminalised, and what YOU call "cured", not as stated for their good, but for your satisfaction. You are all three bigots! "By their actions shall ye know them". Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: akenaton Date: 27 Jan 10 - 07:52 PM Fuck sake Richard....I've worked out that you're a radical and too much of a revolutionary to be side tracked I can't understand why you of all people can't see the hypocricy in the "liberal" mindset Keith and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum politically, but I'm not going to put on a blindfold because he doesn't share my political views. As far as I am concerned all these threads, and the ones on race are about not sexual behaviour, but the use of sexual and racial politics to serve the "liberal agenda" Its not people like Keith who hold back the political change we both want to see, but the the slimy hypocritical dumbed down centre! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Lox Date: 27 Jan 10 - 07:59 PM This from Keith on another thread. "Lox re me not seeing AIDS as gay or African, my post on 21st Jan "Globally HIV / AIDS is overwhelmingly a disease of heterosexual people both in absolute number and in terms of the percentage of sufferers" Yes, I do agree." This in conjunction with Keiths earlier dissociation from GfS, not to mention the speed with which he was prepared to retract and apologize over the new infections rates, very clearly evidence that he may be treading a path close to Ake's, but they are heading for entirely different destinations. Talking of Ake, He posted as follows: "It should be obvious to everyone here that Keith and Sanity are commenting from two completely different points of view, both valid in their own way, but both different in concept" hmmm ... I wonder if he worked that out when he read Keiths post as follows: "That is not what I am saying GFS." Tune in next week to hear Ake explain his hypotheses that at some level the pope may be involved with the catholic church, and that bears squatting behind trees may have something to do with high concentrations of methane in woodland areas. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Lox Date: 27 Jan 10 - 08:22 PM Ake, you're like the boring unfunny answer to Rab C Nesbitts acricature. I can see you now in some pub somewhere, leaning over the tabel to whoever is there, unaware of whether its the same person that was there a minute ago, slurring your words: "The problem .. (slip) ... the problem is the "liberal agenda" ... (slip) ... its all these bastards in the middle classes ... (slip) ... bloody hypocrites ..." ... and slowly but surely people learn to avoid you cos all you have to offer is bile and bad breath. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 27 Jan 10 - 11:23 PM I would like to see Ake describe exactly what he means by "liberal agenda" and the political and ethical philosophy that lies behind liberalism. I think he's using "liberal" as some kind of buzz-word that he picked out of the air and really doesn't know diddly-squat about liberals or liberalism. What is abundantly clear, and convinces me that Ake is clueless about liberalism, is that it is not the liberals who are trying to ghettoize and restrict any minority group, it is Ake! And, for that matter, GfS. Don Firth Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 28 Jan 10 - 02:21 AM Richard, Lesbians have not figured much here because they are effectively at zero risk. Royston, more accusations. You can not be stopped, but can you not see that it is wrong to accuse me in public but refuse to justify, explain or back up the accusation. No bigotry from me. No example given of me twisting the truth, unlike you. On Jan 10th and 11th you came on here, using my name as a term of abuse, and claiming that high hetero diagnoses figures proved infection was rapidly increasing here. You did not mention that most of those diagnosed were not infected here at all. That is twisting the truth. Has anyone, ever, seen me do such a thing? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Smedley Date: 28 Jan 10 - 03:03 AM Well if this thread has done nothing else it has finally got GfS to reveal, unequivocally, the true depths of his fear and hatred. The giveaway is not the physical revulsion against anal intercourse (some gay men, for better or worse, flinch similarly from the thought of the female genitals) but the point where he puts inverted oommas around the word 'love' when it comes to same-sex relationships. I've found this before in extreme and incurable cases of homophobia. Gay sex they can kind of cope with, oddly enough, because they can easily maintain their phobic levels of horror. What really bugs them is the thought that same-sex couples can show long-term and in-depth feelings for each other. The hard-core homophobe like GfS is terrified & threatened by this, because it challenges their core belief that only hetero couples can participate in that level of loving commitment. So the likes of GfS resort to abuse, ridicule and insult, all of which say so much more about the homophobe than about the object of their loathing. GfS, you may think that I don't love my partner, I only 'love' him. How on earth (admittedly, not a planet you seem to inhabit) can you know that ? What evidence could you possibly, possibly have ? You don't know us, you know nothing about us, so I expect all you wil have to say in return is to trot out another slab of cod-Freudian sermonising. And, by the way, I think I am still the only person in this thread to identify themselves as gay, so when you splutteringly fume about 'the homosexuals' who have written here, sorry dear but your paranoia is showing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 28 Jan 10 - 06:40 AM Keith: On Jan 10th and 11th you came on here, using my name as a term of abuse, and claiming that high hetero diagnoses figures proved infection was rapidly increasing here. You did not mention that most of those diagnosed were not infected here at all. That is twisting the truth You make my point for me. Rising heterosexual diagnosis does indeed prove that HIV prevalence is rising in the heterosexual community. That is more HIV+ heterosexuals in the UK shagging and spreading the disease. You are the one that wanted to strip from the figures black people, immigrants, people who happened to acquire the disease on holiday or "back home", blah blah blah, twisting and manipulating, just to prove that there are still, (after all that subterfuge) five times the number of straight, white, caught-it-here people in 2008 than there were in 2000. So even on your mendacious terms, I was right. Straight HIV acquisitions are increasing here, for some groups more than others. All are increasing. And you are still trying to twist the truth. This post stands as another piece of evidence of my grounds for my opinion of you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 28 Jan 10 - 06:54 AM And moreover, Keith, when I took a pot-shot at you on 10 January, I said... Sorry Ake, you are too thick to get into an argument with me. HPA figures. http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1237970242135 Page 8, table 2. New HIV infections in the UK to end of June 2009. Not even the full-year figures. I doubt you can do the math, so here we go. Total number for H1 2009 - 2,896 Male to male vector - 887 cases = 30.63% of total Straight sex vector - 1,256 cases = 43.37% of total Oh dear Ake, aren't you a proper shit for brains. I clearly stated I was using the most recent (Aug 2009) figures. You are from the Keith school of evidence aren't you? Just find some out of date stuff that suits your prejudices? Hmm? And as this argument is about HIV incidence, it hardly matters whether it is African HIV, Peruvian HIV or whatever. Oh, unless you are also racist about disease as well as homophobic. Fact - in the UK, new HIV infections are predominantly a heterosexual problem. So I acknowledged the different sources of infection - not you - and stated them before you ever pitched in. I continued to state them. So you did not enter this discussion to "correct me", you did it for an entirely different reason. I pressed you repeatedly to tell us what your point was, you refused. You just kept on trying to support the overt bigots while adding nothing new and having to retract some of your "facts" when you got caught out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Smedley Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:10 AM Oh goody. More percentages. I really must stop contributing to this thread, as I tend to keep forgetting that it's no longer about people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:35 AM No Royston. Your case was "new UK infection rate by heterosexual transfer has been approaching and exceeding the homosexual transfer rate for a long time now - as at August 2009 the male/male new infections were only at 44% " That is not true is it. They are still less. You tried to mislead us. Most of the hetero infections were in people infected in Africa where the epidemiology is totally different. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:47 AM Wrong, Keith. Stop diggging. In the context - whether HIV was a disease that affected only gay people - it is true to say that the vast majority of newly diagnosed people living and shagging here in this country, are heterosexual . My point was that it doesn't matter - in context - where they caught it. In the post that you clipped those words out of, I was discussing the horrendous African statistics as further evidence that HIV was not - as was being claimed - a "gay" disease. That was the point, that was the context. I was freely referencing the African or foreign acquired straight diagnoses in this country well before you arrived. So, again, what is/was your bloody point? How often does this question have to be asked and by how many people before we get an answer from you? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 28 Jan 10 - 08:01 AM You could have just claimed it as an honest mistake. That you were unaware that most of the "UK" hetersexual infections you were counting did not happen in UK at all. Or that you forgot to tell us. That really is twisting the truth. Not something I have ever knowingly done. Have I Royston? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 28 Jan 10 - 08:09 AM You see, Keith, the irony here is that I accused Ake of being like you because he took the truth - that more straight people are diagnosed here each year than gay people - and tried to trim a bit off here, remove a bit there, disregard another piece of that truth, to make a sort of truth-based lie that supported his view of HIV being a "gay thing". To which you jumped in and did...what?...exactly! You tried to twist the truth a bit, trim it a bit, your first effort came from the flat-earth branch of HIV debate (virusmyth.org). All in an effort to support the bigots. Now you tell lies - that you came in to "correct me" with news about where straight people diagnosed in this country acquired HIV. That must be a lie because the black and white posts show that information was already accepted as true - but pointless in context. That was the argument. Why does it matter to you that most straight UK HIV+ people acquired the disease somehere else? You seem to be saying that so long as the blacks and gays are doing worse, then you're happy with the 5 times increase in UK-acquired straight cases? Is that it Keith? That what you're all about. You're sick! Keep going mate, your fingers are typing for the prosecution. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 28 Jan 10 - 08:12 AM Keith @ 08:01 Liar. I reposted my comments of Jan 10 before you arrived on the scene, acknowledging the origin of infection and arguing it to be irrelevant in context. You're a liar. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 28 Jan 10 - 08:29 AM Virusmyth.org. That was an "and also" after I had posted solid gold BMJ evidence to support my claim. Worryingly, it was one of the top Google hits after BMJ. I did not read the whole site, just went to the bit about infectivity. My mistake. Sorry. But still my case stood solid on the BMJ evidence. You grossly exagerated the rise in heterosexual infection in UK. I do not understand your last post. (I know. I am shitforbrains.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 28 Jan 10 - 08:29 AM Here's what I said to you on Jan 11 (reprinted in full!) my god, you are all barking mad. Good AIDS, bad AIDS, worthy sufferers or not. You're all sick! Why aren't you ashamed of yourselves? Black, white, gay or straight, HIV will get you if you're not safe, celibate or monogamous. Where it enters hetero communities like in Africa it is a hetero disease. Where it enters gay communities it can be for a while, a gay thing. The numbers show it is on the way to being a mostly heterosexual problem in this country. Your racist fantasies notwithstanding. Where is the evidence for this 2-3 or even 1 percent gay thing? I thought 10pc was the accepted estimate. It's not relevant to this discussion, it's just the first time I heard it. So don't tell lies now to make your intervention look like something different. The African-origin "fact" was a settled fact before you arrived. It was an irrelevant fact in the context of the discussion - a fact being used, wrongly, to support overt bigots and haters. Something, Keith, at which you excel. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 28 Jan 10 - 08:50 AM Thank you. Yes, it was shit for brains Ake who first spotted and exposed your ruse. He called you a cheat for it. Even when the trick was exposed you went on trying to bluff it out. You wanted to show that in UK,heterosexual infection had overtaken MSM infection. It had not. Only if you counted infections that happened in subsaharan Africa. You know that Heterosexual infection is many many times more prevalent there. That is twisting the truth. That is what you accuse others of doing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 28 Jan 10 - 09:21 AM In your place, I would have said; Heterosexual infection may be rare in UK now, but there is, and has been, a slow but steady increase in cases. No exageration. No vital information witheld. And above all, no hysterical abuse and name calling. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Smedley Date: 28 Jan 10 - 10:03 AM And it's a tense point in the final of the World Statistical Ping-Pong Championship. The crowd is holding its breath waiting for the next salvo of percentages to be smashed across the net............ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Jan 10 - 10:10 AM Ho! Ho! ;-) I can't believe this mess is still rolling on remorselessly. Horrifying. So, I wonder when someone will propose a death penalty for gross stupidity? I'll stop in in another 6 months or so if this thread is still inflicting itself upon the Universe, okay? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 28 Jan 10 - 10:15 AM 74.89% of contributors are in favour of more percentages. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Smedley Date: 28 Jan 10 - 10:26 AM Not true, Keith, but good to see you have a sense of humour lurking behind that methematical propensity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 28 Jan 10 - 11:32 AM What I said, Keith, is that there are more heterosexual HIV cases in the UK every year than there are homosexual. I acknowledged CLEARLY the different origins and I said that was irrelevant - it could only be relevant if a person was racist about disease as well as homophobic. You think it is relevant, what does that say about you? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 28 Jan 10 - 11:55 AM You are right Royston. If you combine UK and Africa together, AIDS overwhelming effects heterosexuals. Most people would find it more useful to know what is going on with infections here. Most people would have though that that was what you were telling us. But they would be wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 28 Jan 10 - 12:11 PM What did you think of my suggested post? Was it not more informative than anything you have put up on the subject? And only 2 lines. And no one insulted. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 28 Jan 10 - 02:33 PM Your suggested post is a good one, Keith. It is a shame that you chose not to make until after all of other attempts to support the bigots had been knocked down. Now we know the answer to that question "Keith, what is your point?". The answer appears to be that you may have no point whatever; save for a desire to support bigoted and harmful people and opinions. You may not even believe the things that you say, or the positions you support. As I said, Keith, I can have more respect for Ake than for you at times. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 28 Jan 10 - 02:47 PM Glad you liked the post. I would have accepted that from the start and I believe that has been my case all along. We could so easily have been in agreement. I already had a shrewd idea how much respect you have for me. I can read between the lines. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: akenaton Date: 28 Jan 10 - 02:58 PM Royston, I dont really think I want your "respect" after all the nasty names you have been calling me and others here whom I KNOW to be honourable a fair minded. When I called you a cheat, it was partially because you failed to mention that a large percentage of the hetero hiv figures you quoted were aquired in Africa, but more importantly you were citing real numbers which were absolutely meaningless in the context we were discussing.....the ratio of homo/ hetero new infections. The fact that homos are more than 50 times more likely to become infected, points to a serious problem for homosexuality and a serious problem for those who wish to present homosexual practice as safe and healthy. All the statistics I have presented show MsM as the most risky demographic.....and I refuse to believe that heteros will ever reach the percentage rates of infection that are occuring among the homosexual community |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 28 Jan 10 - 03:33 PM Ake: and I refuse to believe that heteros will ever reach the percentage rates of infection that are occuring among the homosexual community Go to Africa. Africa proves that heterosexual practice can be lethal where HIV is concerned. More dangerous than for gay men. The bad-luck reasons for the relatively high - historically - incidence rate amongst gay ment in "the west" have been explained patiently to you many times. 96% of gay men do not and will not contract HIV, so homosexual practice is overwhelmingly HIV-safe. Regardless of where they caught it, more straight people are diagnosed with HIV in this country than are gay men. You see, Keith. Next time you pitch in, ask yourself "what is the point?" If all you ever do is reinforce people like Ake and GfS in their dangerous and ignorant prejudices. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 28 Jan 10 - 03:35 PM ""Oh goody. More percentages. I really must stop contributing to this thread, as I tend to keep forgetting that it's no longer about people."" We're not using figures to dehumanise people Smedley. We are pointing out trends which the other side don't seem capable of grasping, in the vain hope that they might realise that they are indeed barking up the wrong bloody tree, and increasing the risk to people, by focussing on gay males and ignoring the rising threat to the rest. If Ake had his way, and locked up all the male gays tomorrow, would HIV die out in the UK?.....NO! It bloody well would not. It might empty the prisons in time though, which those three would probably consider a result. Don T |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 28 Jan 10 - 03:48 PM ""You wanted to show that in UK,heterosexual infection had overtaken MSM infection. It had not. Only if you counted infections that happened in subsaharan Africa."" No! He didn't, and it's a bit bloody stupid to claim he did when he has just copy/pasted his original post (28th Jan 2010 0829hrs), which does not contain any such statement. What Royston said was that HIV was on its way to becoming a hetero problem in the UK. In view of the fivefold increase in UK ACQUIRED NEW INFECTIONS between 2000 and 2009, what is your basis for disagreeing with that? Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: akenaton Date: 28 Jan 10 - 04:25 PM As you know Don, I dont usually respond to your abusive nonesense, but this is beyond suffering "We're not using figures to dehumanise people Smedley. We are pointing out trends which the other side don't seem capable of grasping, in the vain hope that they might realise that they are indeed barking up the wrong bloody tree, and increasing the risk to people, by focussing on gay males and ignoring the rising threat to the rest." You Lox and Royston(Smedley must have seen the light), are the ones who seem unable to grasp what the figures show. I repeat how high must the homosexual infection figure,or African immigrant figures go before we are compelled to take some action? Or do we just sit on our arses handing out condoms that nobody seems to want? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 28 Jan 10 - 04:26 PM Don Wyz, I do not disagree with it. It is just that a five fold increase only takes the rate from infinitesimal to miniscule. Meanwhile, from the latest evidence, the rate for MSMs, especially the young, already very high, is taking off again. I have taken on board your comment about sources in the other thread. "A so-called fact from a source or origin with a serious axe to grind, a fixed political bias, or a somewhat iffy mental capacity" I will not rely on the British Medical Journal again! This is from Pink News.http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/11/24/new-hiv-infections-down-globally-but-rising-for-gay-men-in-the-uk/ The UNAIDS 2009 AIDS Epidemic Update, released today, shows that new HIV infections are down by 17 per cent over the last eight years around the world. However, the number of new diagnoses of gay men in Europe has risen with gay men in the UK being particularly affected. In the last eight years, there has been a 74 per cent rise in diagnoses of infections of gay men in the UK. This is the percentage of new diagnoses, rather than the rate of new infections. In Europe, the figure rose by 39 per cent between 2003 and 2006. The report said: "A re-emergence of the epidemic among men who have sex with men is now clearly apparent in many high-income countries." It added that this rise was "tied to an increase in sexual risk behaviours". The report also warned that there had been "sharp increases" of the number of gay men in high-income European countries becoming infected with other sexually transmitted infections. Despite the rise in new HIV diagnoses in Europe and North America, rates of infection decreased globally. Since 2001, when the United Nations Declaration of Commitment on HIV/AIDS was signed, the number of new infections in sub-Saharan Africa is approximately 15 per cent lower. In East Asia new HIV infections declined by nearly 25 per cent and in South and South East Asia by 10 per cent in the same time period. "Worryingly, the global decrease in new infections is not being seen in the UK. Here new diagnoses have trebled in the past ten years. HIV diagnoses among men who have sex with men in the UK rose by 74 per cent between 2000 and 2007. The UK needs to re-prioritise HIV prevention among gay men, otherwise we risk falling further behind." The UNAIDS 2009 AIDS Epidemic Update, released today, shows that new HIV infections are down by 17 per cent over the last eight years around the world. However, the number of new diagnoses of gay men in Europe has risen with gay men in the UK being particularly affected. In the last eight years, there has been a 74 per cent rise in diagnoses of infections of gay men in the UK. This is the percentage of new diagnoses, rather than the rate of new infections. In Europe, the figure rose by 39 per cent between 2003 and 2006. The report said: "A re-emergence of the epidemic among men who have sex with men is now clearly apparent in many high-income countries." It added that this rise was "tied to an increase in sexual risk behaviours". The report also warned that there had been "sharp increases" of the number of gay men in high-income European countries becoming infected with other sexually transmitted infections. Despite the rise in new HIV diagnoses in Europe and North America, rates of infection decreased globally. Since 2001, when the United Nations Declaration of Commitment on HIV/AIDS was signed, the number of new infections in sub-Saharan Africa is approximately 15 per cent lower. In East Asia new HIV infections declined by nearly 25 per cent and in South and South East Asia by 10 per cent in the same time period. "Worryingly, the global decrease in new infections is not being seen in the UK. Here new diagnoses have trebled in the past ten years. HIV diagnoses among men who have sex with men in the UK rose by 74 per cent between 2000 and 2007. The UK needs to re-prioritise HIV prevention among gay men, otherwise we risk falling further behind." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 28 Jan 10 - 05:33 PM Those damn facts just keep getting in the way, don't they??? Russian Roulette anyone??..Two bullets or one? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 28 Jan 10 - 05:52 PM Smedley, I was going to 'copy and paste' as segment from your stupidly childish post:From: Smedley Date: 28 Jan 10 - 03:03 AM ..but it was ALL so stupid and immature, I just posted the date so you could review it yourself,(and anyone else), just to PROVE what I've been saying about how immature, and ridiculous you sound! Was your Dad one of those 'homophobe' heterosexuals you alluded to? In the meantime, here for your enjoyment of irritation,(whatever)! Listen to the lyrics!!! Don, you might enjoy this too, though you might find a deeper meaning to it!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZRFjddiNoo GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 28 Jan 10 - 05:59 PM ""Worryingly, the global decrease in new infections is not being seen in the UK. Here new diagnoses have trebled in the past ten years. HIV diagnoses among men who have sex with men in the UK rose by 74 per cent between 2000 and 2007. The UK needs to re-prioritise HIV prevention among gay men, otherwise we risk falling further behind."" So what do we get from this? Gay men with new HIV infections........Increase between 2000 and 2007 of 74 percent. Heterosexuals with new UK ACQUIRED HIV infections...Increase between 2000 and 2009 of 500 percent. N.B. The figures for gay men are total numbers of new diagnoses, without any allowance for infections NOT UK ACQUIRED. Removing those new infections acquired abroad would obviously reduce the figure, but it doesn't suit the gay bashing tenor of these surveys to bother finding out by how much. Ake and Co will of course dive in and claim that there are no gay African, Carribean, or other non EU, males in this country. The comment about the rise in UK acquired heterosexual infections (from infinitessimal to miniscule) is disingenuous in the extreme, since a 74 percent increase has resulted in the current infection of just 4 percent of gay men with HIV. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 28 Jan 10 - 06:01 PM Here, Smeds, and Don Firth...just in case electric instruments offend you......you can hear the lyrics better, too! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFwMvlPu4Qw&feature=related |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 28 Jan 10 - 06:01 PM What's up Grit for Brains? Can't manage a proper link? Then I can't be bothered to give any credence to your posts. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Royston Date: 28 Jan 10 - 06:02 PM Keith, you're straight back at it again. When did anyone ever claim that HIV was NOT a disease that affected predominantly gay men in the West? Hmm? When did anyone ever deny that? Hmm? Show us! Ake and GfS and others argue that it is the *fault* of gay men, that it is only a problem for gay men, that gay men need to be in some way controlled or punished - not helped or supported. They argue that homosexuality is uniquely harmful. The point others have been making is that in the wider scheme of things, it is a much bigger problem for heterosexual people. You make a big deal of how HIV is increasing again amongst gay people - you talk about a 74 percent increase over 8 years. You say this to support the bigots. You say increase is important but not the heterosexual increase of 500% over the same period. Absurd double standards. If you're going to support a position in which you don't believe, you could at least be consistent about it. Ake, it is ALL about education and condom-use. Dr. de Cock said that, and you like his views. All the people who get HIV through sex - the gay ones, the straight ones, the black ones - they all got it because they didn't use a condom and/or didn't use it properly. Ake, GfS, you want to exact some sort of social control or punishment or enforcement on gay people. Tell us what you mean. Take a room of 1,000 gay people - 960 of whom are not and will never be HIV+. What is your plan for all these people. what should their punishment or peculiar treatment be? Hmm? I posted links to just a few of the outreach groups working tirelessly within gay communities and to find the hidden closet-cases. If any of you really cared about this issue, you would get your credit cards out and make a donation. Write to your MP to demand more funding. Will you? I doubt it. Keith, still haven't found a point yet? I never thought you would. Just neutral statistics, eh? Well, if this debate is now down the rump of Ake, Keith and GfS, then I think the case is closed. We are just going around in circles now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 28 Jan 10 - 06:16 PM Sorry, Don....try: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFwMvlPu4Qw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 28 Jan 10 - 06:18 PM Royston: "Ake and GfS and others argue that it is the *fault* of gay men, that it is only a problem for gay men, that gay men need to be in some way controlled or punished - not helped or supported. They argue that homosexuality is uniquely harmful." Both parts of that asinine statement are bold faced lies! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Smedley Date: 28 Jan 10 - 06:43 PM GfS, I really would appreciate knowing which parts of my post are stupid, childish, immature and ridiculous. It would not only help me but would enable others to ascertain the detailed core of your viewpoint. In the absence of such specifics we might have no alternative to conclude that you are only resorting to abuse because you have nothing else to offer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 28 Jan 10 - 06:48 PM ""that gay men need to be in some way controlled or punished - not helped or supported. They argue that homosexuality is uniquely harmful." Both parts of that asinine statement are bold faced lies!"" Perhaps you would like to give your interpretation of the following from Ake, whom you have been supporting for months past. ""You Lox and Royston(Smedley must have seen the light), are the ones who seem unable to grasp what the figures show. I repeat how high must the homosexual infection figure,or African immigrant figures go before we are compelled to take some action?"" Your comments GfS? BTW, your link still isn't a blue clicky. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don Firth Date: 28 Jan 10 - 06:48 PM Ake uses the word "liberal" rather—well--liberally as a pejorative term. Obviously, he is opposed to liberalism. So what is liberalism all about? Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis, "of freedom; worthy of a free man, gentlemanlike, courteous, generous") is the belief in the importance of individual freedom. This belief is widely accepted today throughout the world, and was recognized as an important value by many philosophers throughout history. The Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius wrote praising "the idea of a polity administered with regard to equal rights and equal freedom of speech, and the idea of a kingly government which respects, most of all, the freedom of the governed".I would say that Ake knows as much about liberals, liberalism, and "the liberal agenda" as he knows about most of the things he talks about. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada! Ake and GfS have no solutions to the problems they allege are caused by homosexuals that they are willing to express frankly and openly. The truth is that all of Ake's flogging of HIV/AIDs figures and GfS's claims about same-sex orientation being a psychological abberation that needs to be "cured" are just a couple of weak excuses. They want all gays herded into a ghetto, then lock them in, and throw away the key. As a liberal, I protest! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Smedley Date: 28 Jan 10 - 06:49 PM My last sentence needs an "other than" added after "alternative". Sorry if that didn't need pointing out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 28 Jan 10 - 06:50 PM My answer to that asinine comment from Ake would be.....The figures would need to be much higher than 4 percent. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:03 PM Don Perhaps you would like to give your interpretation of the following from Ake, whom you have been supporting for months past. ""You Lox and Royston(Smedley must have seen the light), are the ones who seem unable to grasp what the figures show. I repeat how high must the homosexual infection figure,or African immigrant figures go before we are compelled to take some action?""T. " He is quoting from Ake, not me....my post about HIV/Aids was: From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 27 Jan 10 - 02:50 AM Personally, I think if you find your spouse, who was not promiscuous, and you valued that in your partner, enough to be that way, for the person you were to love, enough to feel as if passing it to your kids, and being as you love one another, there wouldn't be the controversy about who has more cases of AIDS/HIV!..would there? but we always make allowances, for the lowest of intelligence!..You don't think so????...ok, ......its like arguing about having one bullet, or two, because playing Russian Roulette, feels good!......... Promiscuity!!!!! Don T: "BTW, your link still isn't a blue clicky." My 'blue clicky' doesn't work for some reason. Right click over the link, and an option comes up to 'search the web'..when it comes up, click on it.(it may open a new tab for you, click that. Don Firth, Your definitions of 'liberal' that you used are misleading. 'Liberal' in political context, means a liberal interpretation of the Constitution, as opposed to a Conservative interpretation. You knew that...I think! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity 1400??? Date: 28 Jan 10 - 07:04 PM |
