BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 10:16 AM

Smedley... I just learned that really ought to use a spell checker before posting anything ;-)

But seriously, in answer to your question, I think many will be wiser for all sorts of reasons, good and bad. I personally have learned a great deal on this thread and have been actually quite thrilled to see so much positive thought and support for human rights as a whole. That can only be good for the future, yes?

Yes, indeed, I think much good has come from this thread, far more than bad. There is a lot to be optmistic about when you look deeper. No room for complacency though is there? Ever?

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men [women] to do nothing [my brackets] credited to Burke

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 11:50 AM

MP....You don't half talk bollocks at times(hope they're not poor Jim's)

Do you not even consider the life expectancy/ health figures pertaining to homosexual practice?

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men [women] to do nothing" [my brackets] credited to Burke.


Dont you realise that you braindead "liberals" are doing nothing; and preventing homosexuals from investigating the reasons for the very bad hiv/aids, promiscuity and life expectancy figures, by denying they even exist.

As I said before, its a case of letting them die rather than upsetting your "liberal" consciences.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 12:02 PM

A married woman takes a lover....Ive read this happens at some time in almost every marriage.
Jim calls it "putting it about as if it was going out of fashion" and as a woman you're not offended.....I dont believe you!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 12:19 PM

How do you know I do nothing? Where do you get your crystal ball from? I have not and do not deny that ill health figures and mortality exists. It does so on our roads every day, in war zones, on weekend nights out, and all other various diverse scenarios. How many children never reach maturity to even have sex? Do you canpaign for them and against their abusers and murderers? I simply do not single out gay men in the argument. Human beings are risk takers and sexual creatures. Get over it!

I give each year to HIV/AIDs charities, as I do to Cancer charities, the NSPCC and Diabetes UK. Because disease is not just something that effects gay paeople. It affects us all in some way or another. If not directly it does so by taking away people we love, respect, admire or care for. There, but for the grace of God go I...

If being braindead is the alternative to what what you and your ilk subscribe to on this thread, I will happily add that to all the other labels that have been directed. No matter how many times I tell you that humanism is the basis and not liberalism you will insist of having it your way.

You win! There. You have it. Winning you is not important. Stopping the mindless hatred of people who are different than ourselves is.

Happy New year by the way to all on the thread.

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 12:27 PM

Why should I be offended? Some women do put it about. Just like some men do. That does not mean they all do.

Truth is you do not want to believe that people can hold opposite opinions to you and still be worth any validity or respect. Call them, wear them down, put them down... Believe as you will. You do already and that is the sadness in all of this. Not that you have a different opinion or viewpoint but that you are willing to call and abuse those who you have no idea about at all. I am no liar. Believe me or not. It's really no longer importanat to me what you think. But ask yourself this. Why should I say I am not offended if I am? I would have thought this thread shown I was not unhappy to dispute reasonably things I disagree with or that offend me. Fact is Jim Carrol's words did not offend me at all. You accusing by inference that I am lying does.

This is just becoming more sad but I will not join in with a slanging match or name calling. I am who I am. It's really that simple!

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 12:30 PM

Happy New Year to you too, mauvepink.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 12:57 PM

Nice rant MP, but you only addressed the points I made in the most cursor4y fashion.

Do you not think "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men [women] to do nothing" was offensive t6o others on this thread with a different viewpoint?

I think you are naive and mistaken in your opinion, but I would never imply that you were evil.

Regarding Mrs Robinson,as far as wqe know she has had one short extra-marital affair.....Jim says she "puts it about as if its going out of fashion".
He should withdraw that remark. If he does not, his views on women will be obvious.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 01:11 PM

"putting it about as if it was going out of fashion"
Probably not the best phrase to have used: I apologise if it has given any offence; it certainly wasn't intended - though it has given our homophobic wing an opportunity to divert the attention away from their own bigotry.   
"Regarding Mrs Robinson,as far as we know she has had one short extra-marital affair."
Well no actually - Mrs Robinson's name has been linked to extra-marital affairs in the past, though the family has managed to silence these accusations with their not inconsiderable wealth. Don't know if The Irish Times in the UK is the same as that in Ireland - full details to be found there.
My posting was to draw attention to the hypocracy of somebody who has openly used her position in society and her religion to put over her offensive views while failing to live up to the standards she demands of others.
As I said earlier, Mrs Robinson's affairs are none of my business, other than the effect they might have on the stability of a country that has undergone a horrific period over the last forty years.
The responsible position she and her husband hold in relation to the delicate political situation here in Ireland calls for them to tread act responsibly; it really is what we have a right to expect from them. I has just been announced on the news that Sinn Féin are determined to make the peace process work - not a supporter, but a nice piece of political propaganda for them - don't you think?   
For the record; I am not a male chauvanist, I find any form of stereotyping and bigotry - homophobia, racism.... not only offensive, but extremely dangerous and quite often deliberately used to ferment hatred and violence.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 01:29 PM

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men [women] to do nothing [my brackets] credited to Burke"

Just to clear this up as it is being used contextually out of place. I used that phrase in response to the thread subject and topic. In other words I have taken a great deal of notice that people will not stand idly by and do nothing. People (good men & women) have stood up against the idea of hanging homosexuals and the ideas that lie behind such hatred. That was why I used that quote in the particular response I made about me thinking that much has been learned and accomplished.

Personally I am cheered that people speak out against blatant hatred.

I cannot spell it out any better than that. No accusation of evil was levied against anyone on this thread as, long though it has been, I have not seen a single soul advocating hanging or in support of that as a solution. I may be wrong but I have no intention of reading the whole thing again.

People can have differing viewpoints. That is not evil in itself. Nowhere have I said otherwise but you have obviously taken me as meaning those who hold other views? Please, judge me by my actions, not what you think they are. Somewhere in there has been some misunderstanding and I hope the above clearly points out my meaning and the use of that quote.

I am sure that you do think me "naive and mistaken in your opinion". That is your perogative and right too.

My new years resolution is totally trashed now! ;-)

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 01:30 PM

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men [women] to do nothing [my brackets] credited to Burke"

Just to clear this up as it is being used contextually out of place. I used that phrase in response to the thread subject and topic. In other words I have taken a great deal of notice that people will not stand idly by and do nothing. People (good men & women) have stood up against the idea of hanging homosexuals and the ideas that lie behind such hatred. That was why I used that quote in the particular response I made about me thinking that much has been learned and accomplished.

Personally I am cheered that people speak out against blatant hatred.

I cannot spell it out any better than that. No accusation of evil was levied against anyone on this thread as, long though it has been, I have not seen a single soul advocating hanging or in support of that as a solution. I may be wrong but I have no intention of reading the whole thing again.

People can have differing viewpoints. That is not evil in itself. Nowhere have I said otherwise but you have obviously taken me as meaning those who hold other views? Please, judge me by my actions, not what you think they are. Somewhere in there has been some misunderstanding and I hope the above clearly points out my meaning and the use of that quote.

I am sure that you do think me "naive and mistaken in your opinion". That is your perogative and right too.

My new years resolution is totally trashed now! ;-)

mp

(apologies I never logged the name. Hoepfully the blank guest will be taken out by a moderator, thanks)

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 01:51 PM

GfS, give it a rest! From the blather you just wrote, your ignorance of the variety of what falls under the heading of "Christian belief" is abysmal. Also your diddle-headed attempts to "psychoanalyze" me verges on the idiotic. No competent psychological counselor would ever say some of the things you do, so you are confirming my suspicions that you a) took Psych 101 in college; and b) got a C- in the course, and that's as far as your knowledge of psychology goes. I've heard your kind of blather from lots of college freshmen taking their first Psych course. And I'm also aware that any tarot card-reader or crystal-ball gazer can hang out a shingle and declare him/herself a "counselor."

Also, you are projecting what you think that I think the nature of God is. Way off base, "counselor." I'm not as primitive as you would like to believe I am—or as you probably are.

The three "ex-homosexuals" that I met are very unhappy people, verging on the point of depression. Also, they are obsessed with the matter of homosexuality and never miss a chance to rage against it. It is obvious to all who are acquainted with them that they are not ex-homosexuals, they have merely stuffed their sexuality back into the closet and are in an extreme state of denial.

I am fully aware that you have more than just a vested interest in the idea that gender orientation is a matter of free choice, i.e., flip a coin. The idea that it might be genetic absolutely terrifies you.

Judging from what you said in the other thread about your father, the obvious conclusion is that you are scared spitless of the genes your own body carries.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 02:24 PM

Nice deflection, Don. You completely avoided what I was saying, with your own bit of blather. Either your God can change lives, or He can't...and if He does, you seem to object! In any event, Homosexuals CAN terminate that inclination...like it or not!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 02:36 PM

Happy New Year to all in this mini-madhouse from me too. Even to GfS, who has a vested interest, it seems, in not being happy.

And YES homosexuals CAN terminate that inclination ! So can heterosexuals ! in the 15th & 16th centuries in Spain lots of Jews & Muslims terminated those inclinations and coverted to Christianity !

It's amazing how you can reinvent yourself if there's enough social & cultural pressure........

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 02:38 PM

"Don't know if The Irish Times......"
Should read 'Sunday Times' - of course.
The only reason Mrs Robinson enters into this discussion - apart from her vitriolic statements about homosexuality - is that she is/was a politician who has used her priveleged position to express her view on the subject in the most hate-filled rabble rousing terms - to reiterate:
"There can be no viler act, apart from homosexuality and sodomy, than sexually abusing children"
"I cannot think of anything more sickening than a child being abused. It is comparable to the act of homosexuality" only for it to be discovered that her own behaviour was less than perfect.
The lady is a bigot and a hypoctrit and held a position in society where neither can be said to be acceptible for national stability.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 02:51 PM

It won't surprise anyone, but may delight some as it did me, that Ulster's homos are having a high old time all over the internet revelling in Mrs Robinson's exposure & fall from saintliness.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 02:54 PM

I'm quite surprised this thread is still limping on.

GfS et al - the most that can be concluded about people who have had sex with the same and with opposite genders is that they are bisexual. Men are - famoudly - just sexual. The straightest of the straight is quite happy to get a bit from one of the lads when they're all in prison together, so sexualty is hardly a fixed reference.

The real issue is why do people like Ake and GfS have such a hang up about what other people do with their sexual organs. I just find it very odd and a little disturbing.

If Ake reckons that early death and/or HIV infection is a "gay thing" then he should pop off to Africa where 22.4mn people have HIV and where it is overwhelmingly a heterosexual disease - in Swaziland for instance the HIV infection rate is about 25% of the overall population.

In USA and Western Europe, that HIV is mostly a "gay thing" is now a footnote in history as the new UK infection rate by heterosexual transfer has been approaching and exceeding the homosexual transfer rate for a long time now - as at August 2009 the male/male new infections were only at 44% - source, UK Health Protection Agency.

Because "straight" people are in such denial about their risky behaviours they are less likely to get tested and treated and the prevailing view amongst health agencies is that the heterosexual figures are the tip of an enormous iceberg.

Add to that the well-documented tidal wave of heterosexually acquired STI's amongst straight teenagers in the UK, and the only statistical conclusion is that heterosexual communities are paying the greatest price for their loose morals and grotesque sexual hygiene.

Anecdotally, there is a view that gay people are at greater risk of mental health and depression problems leading to physical ill health, but surely that is just because of the vile treatment they get from the likes of sexually insecure bigots like Ake and GfS?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 02:57 PM

GfS, have you ever read The Sparrow, by Mary Doria Russell?

Rather than a science-fiction novel as it appears to be, it is very much a novel of ideas. Specifically religious and philosophical ideas.    REVIEW.

But never mind, GfS. Even if you did read the book, you still wouldn't get it.

My concept of God is not as primitive as you seem to think—or that your concept apparently is.

If the Cosmos and all that it is in it was indeed created by an Intelligence that we call "God," the nature of this entity is so far beyond human understanding that anyone who claims to know "the Mind of God" or what God would or would not do in any situation is merely spouting vapor. Bloody nonsense!

So, GfS, don't you try to tell me what God would or would not do in any given situation.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 03:01 PM

Royston, lots of bullseyes in your post. Set your watch for Ake & GfS to swoop in with their patented tropes of misrepresentation, goalpost-moving, faux-concern and bluster. They're a bit like Batman & Robin of this thread (and we all know what THEY got up to in the Batcave).

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 03:04 PM

Ake,

Noone has rejected or ignored the gay Aids and HIV stats.

You on the other hand have ignored the dangers of syphillis, gonnorhea, chlamidia and HPV amongst young women and older adolescent girls.

You have also requested that people ignore the stats about hetero Aids in Africa.

You have also rejected any interppretation of the stats other than your own, regardless of the fact that your interpretation has been shown to be fundamentally flawed repeatedly.


Jims views are obvious as he has stated them clearly.


Ake's views are also obvious as he has also stated them clearly.


Ake's view are that homosexuals are a "scourge",

that homosexuality is a lifestyle,

that homosexuality is "promoted" in schools.

That homosexuals have more "rights" than heterosexuals

that homosexuals are abhorrent perverts,

and that homosexuals are closet paedophiles.


This are all spelled out clearly in Akes posting history.



The best Ake can do with Jim is INFER a meaning fom a post making an entirely different point.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 03:12 PM

Royston....all the points you mention, have been dealt with further up the thread...while you were having your siesta...... for the last couple of months.

How about getting yourself up to date?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 03:24 PM

"Royston....all the points you mention, have been dealt with further up the thread..."

Which you keep ignoring, blow right past, and continue to post your own interpretation of the stats you carefully select, Ake. What Royston posted needs to be repeated until you finally get it.

Oh, blow it! You won't get it because you don't want to get it.

You two guys are so bloody transparent.

Don Firth

P. S. Out of here for the rest of the day. Real life intrudes.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 03:45 PM

HIV figures for UK 2008

New infections 38% Homosexual.....62% heterosexual
Taking into account that homosexuals make up only 2-3% of the population, these figures show that in percentage terms infections are vastly more common among homosexuals than among heterosexuals.
Royston's bald figure of 44% is completely meaningless!

Turning to new heterosexual infections, 66% are among those of black african ethnicity.    16% UK aquired.

These are taken from the source cited by Royston and were available to him before he posted.

You're a cheat Royston, but to make your argument and the argument of the lynch mob seem to stack up......cheating is required :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 04:24 PM

Sorry Ake, you are too thick to get into an argument with me.

HPA figures.

http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1237970242135

Page 8, table 2. New HIV infections in the UK to end of June 2009. Not even the full-year figures.

I doubt you can do the math, so here we go.

Total number for H1 2009 - 2,896

Male to male vector - 887 cases = 30.63% of total

Straight sex vector - 1,256 cases = 43.37% of total

Oh dear Ake, aren't you a proper shit for brains. I clearly stated I was using the most recent (Aug 2009) figures. You are from the Keith school of evidence aren't you? Just find some out of date stuff that suits your prejudices? Hmm?

And as this argument is about HIV incidence, it hardly matters whether it is African HIV, Peruvian HIV or whatever. Oh, unless you are also racist about disease as well as homophobic.

Fact - in the UK, new HIV infections are predominantly a heterosexual problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 05:54 PM

"How about getting yourself up to date? "
You might try the same yourself - I reckon with your ideas, you've got about thirty years to catch up on.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 06:04 PM

From
this link

"There are around 2,800 new cases of cervical cancer diagnosed in the UK each year, that is around 55 women every week."

From this link

"'High risk' HPV types have been found to be present in close to 100% of all cervical cancers."

From
this link

"Cervical cancer is the second commonest cancer of women worldwide, with approximately 500,000 new cases with 270,000 deaths annually (Munoz et al., 2006; Parkin and Bray, 2006). Persistent infection with high-risk HPV types is detectable in 99% of cervical cancers (Munoz et al., 2006)."

and

"Information on the prevalence of high-risk HPV infection is available from a large cross-sectional study of women having routine cervical screening in the UK (Kitchener et al., 2006). This found evidence of current high-risk HPV infection in 40% of women at 20-24 years of age, declining with increasing age."

Ake

According to YOUR logic, these stats show conclusively that heterosexual sex among young women is unsafe and should not be promoted as being a healthy lifestyle choice.

Those were YOUR criteria.

It would be wrong to allow them to die for the sake of some "liberal" ideal of human rights wouldn't it?


Roll up roll up and watch the double standards roll.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 06:44 PM

Don, What a friggin' cop out. You just can't admit that you might have learned something, that corrected your faulty assertions. Even 'Smedley', an admitted homosexual, has the balls to admit that homosexuals CAN terminate their inclinations. You just can't admit that you have been wrong...well good luck. It's a good thing that you are not in charge of who would be allowed to be treated, or get medical support, for anything that they might want to get treated for, if it disagreed with your political stance!..We'd all be in a world of hurt!
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 06:55 PM

By the way,

From this link

"At the end of 2008, women accounted for 50% of all adults living with HIV worldwide"


A statistic which shows:

1. that denying homosexuals the same rights as the rest of us would not be an effective solution to the problem of HIV/AIDS

2. how Ake has hijacked the HIV issue as a lame lifesaver to hide his homophobiia,

3. and how little he really cares about HIV/AIDS or he would take an interest in learning enough about it that he might be able to develop a more useful approach.


The only justifications left to him are those he has yet to deny - the ones born of his fascination/revulsion for homosexual sex and his instinctive 'knowledge' that gay people are dangerous, mentally ill, disease infected perverts who need access to other gays or they might rape a child.


The Pharoah wears no clothes.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 07:14 PM

If a Gay man went to his doctor and said he wanted to be cured of his gayness, his doctor would apologize and say that there is no treatment.

If a gay man came to me saying the same thing, I would say "If you don't want to sleep with men, then don't sleep with men. If you would like to find a girlfriend then go and find one."

Any trained psychologist or counsellor would merely act as a facilitator to assist their patient to work things out for themselves.

Some non Gay men make the mistake of experimenting with homosexual intimacy and later regret it.

Some bisexual men swing from men to women.

Some gay men force themselves into relationships with women to fit in with social and cultural demands.



If you want to be 'cured' then it follows you want to be with a woman.

If that is because you like women, then you aren't gay.

If it is because you are afraid of the consequences socially, that means you are surrounded by homophobesand has no bearing on whether you are gay or not.


So GfS's idea of a "cure" is, accordiing to current knowledge, utter nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Jan 10 - 07:37 PM

Interesting to note that the veiws of our two resident 'phobes coincide pretty well with those of Mrs Robinson, and are not a million miles away from giving the thumbs up to the original question, as posed.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 12:05 AM

Neither one of you two have any idea what I think..only what you think, I think....and to tell you the truth, you think pretty small.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 02:49 AM

In fact Ake is not just a bigot and a fool, he is a liar.

This graph from the HPA

http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1252660014250

Is the best summary of their 1999-2008 new UK infection data.

I shows that heterosexually acquired HIV has outstripped homosexually acquired HIV for the entire period - in some years by a factor of at least 3 to 1.

Oh dear Ake, by your rational we now need to do something to control these filthy heterosexual types, don't we? For what do you think heterosexual people are now receiving the AIDS punishment? GfS, anything to say about this?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 03:15 AM

Royston, you continually fail to take into account the ratio of homosexuals to heterosexuals in the population.

I will reapeat it again for you, but if you can't understand how this works, I think you might be better to stick to facebook.

Homosexuals make up 2-3% of the UK population.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 03:35 AM

Understandable figures from Roystons source

LINK

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 03:38 AM

Actually, I'm opposed to all forms of infidelity, hetero or homo. What is being particularly overlooked on this thread, and any other threads, similar to this nature, is people can do anything they want, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. In the case of hetero infidelities, let's face it, because of selfish, self absorbed, and immature behavior, often when there is two married people with children involved, affairs, cheating and such, devastates the children, of that marriage, not only when such piggish behavior is found out, and the family breaks, because of it. Not to mention,that the love made between the mother and father, creates an ambiance in the household, and whether or not, the adults are aware of it, that ambiance, does, in fact, remain in the home, and is nurturing to the children. A loving family sets the tone of the home, that children are raised, and is a covering of protection for them.
Anyone who was raised in a warm and loving home, can remember how it was when mom, and dad, were openly affectionate with each other, and as children, the comforting, happy feeling that was enjoyed by the little eyes, and hearts who were around it....Anyone remember that?
All this emphasis on sex, for sex sake, whether it is hetero, or homo, is usually shallow, and nourishes no one, except the very temporary itch it scratches.
Compare a loving couple's children, and the children of single parents, who parade a bunch of prospective mommies or daddies, in front of their kids, and getting their 'opinion' on who they like better, for their 'pick' of a new parent....not for the well being of the children, or family, but to re-assure, that particular parent's ego, or insecurities.
Also, children of broken homes, more often or not, blame themselves for one or the other parent leaving, and has a tragic sense of their own love's worth, because that child loves both his parents, and he grows up feeling that that love was not 'good' enough to cause them to stay together. That child grows up with a feeling that his love is ineffectual. I imagine many in here can relate to that, and it is truly a sad, and rather cruel, thing to impose on the child, who no one is relating to, as the parent pursues their own particular selfish crap!

Does that answer you question?...If not, I can gladly elaborate, if I thought anyone would benefit from it, or if it would spare one more person from being hurt by it.
With Warmest Regards to All,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 03:41 AM

Sorry link didn't work

try here

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 03:51 AM

Hi, Ake...over there across the pond.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 04:22 AM

Royston is free with the gross accusation "liar"
He has used it against me in other threads.
He should have read my 9th December post on this thread.

Some UK stats.
(Our situation is different because we have immigrants from Africa where it infects more heterosexuals than in western countries.)

Although only about 1% of the total population of Britain are adult gay men, almost half of the people living with HIV are gay men.

This means gay men are about 90 times more likely to be living with HIV than other people.

Similarly, although African people account for about 1% of the population in Britain, 33% of the people living with HIV are African.

This means African people in Britain are about 50 times more likely to be living with HIV than other ethnic groups.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3856963.stm

(Without the African dimension, gay men would account for rather more than the 53% quoted for USA)

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 05:10 AM

A hundred years ago homosexuals were severely penalised; 40 years ago or so homosexuality was legalised; my concern is that it soon may be made compulsary.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 05:30 AM

'Neither one of you two have any idea what I think'
Why shouldn't we - every bar we go into has its resident redneck.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 05:37 AM

GfS said:

"Even 'Smedley', an admitted homosexual, has the balls to admit that homosexuals CAN terminate their inclinations."

Oh GfS, have you ever thought of a career in comedy??? Yes, I did say that, in the context of a lengthier post, the rest of which you excised because it attacks your views.

Some years ago, I wrote a review of a stage show for a newspaper. I hated the show & the review was 99% negative. I did, however, predict that despite its shortcomings the show would be "a huge hit".

Next time I was passing the theatre, there on the billboard was the phrase "A Huge Hit" with my name appended.

Your selective mangling of my words, GfS, brought this incident to mind. I wonder why.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 10:09 AM

"Royston, you continually fail to take into account the ratio of homosexuals to heterosexuals in the population."


And you continue to ignore the ratio of women dying as a result of HPV.

What is that ration again?

100% to 0%

And what percentage of young women women are thought to be infected with HPV?

40%

So according to Ake's own methodology, yet again, we must conclude that heterosexuality amongst young women is unhealthy and should not be promoted in our schools.


Either that, or Ake admits that his reaoning is fundamentally flawed.

You can't have it both ways.


To insist on double standards is to prove that you are exactly what you appear to be.

A twisted, hateful, bitter, hypocritical and deceitful homophobe.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 10:15 AM

HPV?

I didn't know what that is, for me & others, here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPV

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 11:00 AM

Sadly the HPV linkage is not just for cervical cancers either. 70% of cervical cancers are caused by HPV-16 and HPV-18 and these are increasingly being shown to possible links with oral and pharyngeal cancers too. There is an argument that the current vaccine for HPV be extended to males. More work needs to be done but the research seems sounds enough along with the figures.

And lest we forget... one does not have to be promiscuous to get HIV or HPV. You only need one exposure ultimately. Whilst the chances of contracting such disease increases with promiscuity and un-safe sex, that does not mean a one off exposure will not occur.

I suspect less judgements and a more humane approach to caring for anyone with any disease should be the way forward. We are all, potentially, only one love affair away from such diseases. Anything that encourages a stable, monogamous relationship, for any gender, has to be on the right lines. I know I have made mistakes in the past that could have been disasterous. Given the incubation of some of these disaeses, they could still be disasterous. But for the grace of God...

I certainly have no wish to cast any stones...

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 12:00 PM

Smeds:"Oh GfS, have you ever thought of a career in comedy??? Yes, I did say that, in the context of a lengthier post, the rest of which you excised because it attacks your views."

Don't flatter yourself! The rest of your quote does not attack my views. Rather shows the pedantic semi-literate blathering of someone who is acting like their parents told them to stop sucking their thumb.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 12:23 PM

Jim Mc Lean.....Nice to see you on the thread.

Sanity... "Howsitgaun ma auld freen".....   :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 12:26 PM

MP.....Perhaps you would open a new thread on HPV, the issues seem completely different from the ones we are discussing here.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 12:27 PM

HPV is a false analogy.
It is likely to be transmitted equally by gay or straight penetrative sex.
It is just that men do not get cervical cancer.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 12:33 PM

my god, you are all barking mad. Good AIDS, bad AIDS, worthy sufferers or not. You're all sick! Why aren't you ashamed of yourselves?

Black, white, gay or straight, HIV will get you if you're not safe, celibate or monogamous. Where it enters hetero communities like in Africa it is a hetero disease. Where it enters gay communities it can be for a while, a gay thing. The numbers show it is on the way to being a mostly heterosexual problem in this country. Your racist fantasies notwithstanding.

Where is the evidence for this 2-3 or even 1 percent gay thing? I thought 10pc was the accepted estimate. It's not relevant to this discussion, it's just the first time I heard it.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 12:36 PM

OK, GfS, I have attempted in the past to be as patient as I could with your idiocy. Now you have taken to directly insulting me.

I won't bore others who read this with a list of my qualifications and professional achievements (and others who have read this thread will make their own judgements about how 'semi-literate' I am), I will instead respond with my considered judgement of you based on wading through your embarrassingly banal and one-dimensional posts.

You have an obsessive prejudice against homosexuals. Every sentence you write suppurates with venom. You seem eaten up from the inside by bitterness and loathing. You despise me because my health, happiness and ability to counter your homphobic bile represents a continual refutation of your passionately clung-to fantasy that homosexuals are inadequate or damaged or in need of help.

I wish you all the ill will in the world.

Or, as Allen Ginsberg once said, go fuck yourself with the atom bomb.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 11 Jan 10 - 01:03 PM

Ake, Keith, GfS

I know that I should get up to date on this thread but, gawd, more than 800 posts of homophobia and racism is just too much for me.

The point Lox is making about HPV and any other STI is that the incidence is sky rocketing amongst straight people.

This means that straight people are suffering from grotesque sexual hygiene and morals.

This means that, now new UK HIV diagnoses are increasing so much faster amongst straight people and the other STI's show their behaviours to be so risky as regards unprotected coitus and because the tissue damage from other STI's is a risk multiplier for HIV transmission, so you have the perfect storm for an exponential rise of heterosexual HIV.

This is how it played out in Africa, it is how it will play out here until people like you three are stopped from spreading your vile hatred that tries to apportion blame, and reserve consequences, for our shared human miseries.

Don't you get it? Not even a little bit?