BS: Militant atheism has become a religion

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 11:26 AM

ok- so what is this evidence for big bang suppossedly billions of years in the past.
as to light travel problem,- big bang has them too.there are however creationist models that offer solutions.big bangers use unsubstantiated fudge factors to solve their deficiency of explanation.i wish i could give all the tech stuff to demonstrate the creationist position.i await to see if anyone can demonstrate the veracity of big bang .

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 07:21 AM

One of the texts, the wonderfully titled "Thunder, Perfect Mind", even includes a poem from the perspective of a female divine power...

"I am knowledge and ignorance. I am shameless; I am ashamed. I am strength; I am fear. I am foolish; I am wise. I am godless and I am one whose god is great."

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jun 13 - 07:34 PM

Exactly. What we call "the Bible" is actually a very arbitrary selection of stuff that the early tendentious proselytisers selected for us, avoiding, where possible, accounts that didn't quite fit the bill. But can you tell all these believers that? Nah. Anyone for the gospels of Thomas and Mary Magdalene? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 17 Jun 13 - 04:22 PM

Just out of interest, what do folks think of the Gnostic Gospels? A quite different spin on the whole Christ thing. I'm reading Elaine Pagels' commentary on them at the moment and it's fascinating stuff. Had Gnosticism not been stamped out we could have a very different religion...

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Jun 13 - 02:22 PM

I once OP'd a thread called "What went Big Bang?"

Just saying.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jun 13 - 01:13 PM

i ask-
does anyone really believe
billions of yrs ago there was absolutely nothing,not even God.then something in this nothing[!] exploded and there was something.was it gas to begin with? or am i thinking of t rex "lifes a gas".somehow matter formed.a uicellular something became multicellular.somehow life came from matter-anyone for a secular miracle!-and against all probability and thats only the beginning of the story.anyone for fairies at the bottom of the garden!

Well now, here's me thinking you were a creationist. Y'know, make something from nothing. I can't understand how you can have the gall to make this argument unless you are prepared to answer the schoolchild questions: Where did God come from, then? Who made him? These are the most profound questions any "theologian" can be asked, and guess what: they haven't a bloody clue how to answer them. At least we have evidence that the Big Bang happened, old chap, and we can explain everything that's happened since a few nano-seconds after it happened. And we're closing in. Considering your "knowledge" about God, I reckon you should be bloody impressed.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,Musket sans the Big Bang
Date: 17 Jun 13 - 01:02 PM

That's the problem. Nothing exploded if what we surmise is true. Time as a dimension didn't exist.

But anyway, my point isn't and never has been that we have the answers yet, but the evidence makes such hypothesis possible. However, what discovery has taught us is that biblical teachings include the fanciful.

There is evidence for the Big Bang. Where is the evidence for all that is attributed to any God? More specifically, why the link with love? Indifference maybe but love? I take it omnipotent translates as impotent where Syria s concerned.

So.... Any ideas that can tie biblical teaching with astrophysics, quantum mechanics or, the killer blow, the demonstrable evidence of the minimum age of stars and planets?

Scripture tried to make sense of the known universe, fine. So did science up till 5.00pm tonight. One knows and invites being superseded, the other fears it.

Not so believable, this god of yours, if those who use words such as truth fear true truth, as it were....

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 17 Jun 13 - 11:21 AM

try again!-last post disappeared.
i did not call or infer that joe is an idiot - possibly the other way round?
musket asks "...does anyone really believe..[basically what most christians for 2thousand yrs accept as true].."
i ask-
does anyone really believe
billions of yrs ago there was absolutely nothing,not even God.then something in this nothing[!] exploded and there was something.was it gas to begin with? or am i thinking of t rex "lifes a gas".somehow matter formed.a uicellular something became multicellular.somehow life came from matter-anyone for a secular miracle!-and against all probability and thats only the beginning of the story.anyone for fairies at the bottom of the garden!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,musket without sans
Date: 17 Jun 13 - 11:09 AM

I am indebted to you kind Sir.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Jun 13 - 01:38 PM

For info:-

Part II of An Essay on Criticism (1711) by Alexander Pope [1688-1744] includes the famous couplet

A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring.


This is in reference to the spring in the Pierian Mountains in Macedonia, sacred to the Muses. ~ Wikipedia

HTH

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,Musket sans piss taking
Date: 16 Jun 13 - 01:26 PM

Actually it is piss taking.

Ron Davis is superstitious and is hijacking threads where grown ups are debating reality.

I appear to be an atheist although by others not by my use of words. However, I haven't heard of this Pierian spring. So your hurdles are as irrelevant as your assertion that there is a God, what ever that means.

In fact, most people haven't heard of this spring thingamajig. And most people don't believe in fairy tales, even those who get comfort from reading them....

Atheism becoming a religion? Don't make me laugh. The idea of rejecting superstition is to admit to being beyond comfort blankets or not seeing them as relevant.   So why the fascination with thinking rational people need irrational thoughts? Oh. Sailor boy thinks so....

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Jun 13 - 12:22 PM

Ho, very referential, Ron. But be assured we have much more than a little learning: more than you, I shouldn't wonder. And certainly more than the person who uses 'educated' abusively, as an insult.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Jun 13 - 12:13 PM

Our illustrious atheists have a severe problem with the Pierian spring. But they no doubt feel there's no reason to pay any attention to the warning issued on this topic;   after all, it comes from A. Pope.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 07:29 PM

Some theologians have posited that...

One commentary says that...

And someone needs to look up the meaning of weasel words.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,Musket sans body
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 05:52 AM

I said somewhere that it is not easy to be objective here and everything is subjective.

Hence pete regarding Joe an idiot for not believing you can be in a whale for three days or that Jesus died and then didn't die.

Be buggered if I know which is the idiot here? or put more mildly, whom is most gullible?

Putting aside two interpretations of the word belief, and assuming belief is genuinely believing something is what it is, does anybody here actually believe the man Jesus, whether one person or attributed to a number of people around the same time.. Does anybody actually think his mother was a virgin, his father a mythical creature with wings, his ability to cure dead and afflicted people, his own coming back from a perfectly satisfactory crucifixion and floating off into the clouds afterwards?

Is it me or doesn't that sound so bizarre that Joe has to have a point over allegory? Especially bearing in mind most of the bullshit end of the claims were borrowed from earlier legends?

No wonder I have issues accepting intelligent integrity of some people.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 04:55 AM

well joe,in your terms it looks like you are dealing with an idiot as i have no trouble believing that God is well able to prepare a sea creature to swallow jonah.if you believe the gospels it seems you are calling Jesus an idiot also.he compared the 3 day duration of jonahs internment in the sea creature with the 3 days of his in the tomb.
maybe you think that allegorical as well and he never rose again?.
my question to you would be the same as paul posed to the roman leader
"..why should you think it incredible that God should raise the dead"
i respect your right not to answer my query as to whether your priest is as liberal in theology as yourself,and does the congregation deserve to know if he is but i am inclined to think such witholding of any such information borders on the deceptive,especially if he preaches as though he does believe.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 04:55 AM

well joe,in your terms it looks like you are dealing with an idiot as i have no trouble believing that God is well able to prepare a sea creature to swallow jonah.if you believe the gospels it seems you are calling Jesus an idiot also.he compared the 3 day duration of jonahs internment in the sea creature with the 3 days of his in the tomb.
maybe you think that allegorical as well and he never rose again?.
my question to you would be the same as paul posed to the roman leader
"..why should you think it incredible that God should raise the dead"
i respect your right not to answer my query as to whether your priest is as liberal in theology as yourself,and does the congregation deserve to know if he is but i am inclined to think such witholding of any such information borders on the deceptive,especially if he preaches as though he does believe.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 02:58 AM

A fascinating book, I agree, Joe. As a folklorist I find it endlessly so. And I am very fond of Job. And there are folkloric elements I rejoice in [wouldn't Lot's story have made a fine incest ballad to go along with Sheath & Knife & Lizie Wan & The Rich Man's Daughter -- but a justification for incest, yet; a lot of people seem to have missed that bit, don't they?]. But, without a bit more indication of which bits we may find in any way trustworthy, I can't help feeling that the negatives, so well summarised in Musket's animadversions just above as to its baleful overall influence, will continue to hold sway over its 'fascination' SFAIC.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,Musket sans without
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 01:53 AM

I don't think the issue here is Joe stating that his take is what it is and as he sees himself as religious, ergo you cant dismiss religions without addressing Joe and the many more like him.

It misses the point though. Society being controlled by dogma describes the influence of religious institutions throughout time. That the control freaks apply their craft by wishing people to believe such writings as literal truth is part of the problem.

Joe and many more are not the problem. The problem however relies on the respectability Joe and others lend it. The Pope doesn't differentiate when bringing the breadth of his influence to the table when addressing world leaders. I don't see The Archbishop of Canterbury disowning fundamentalist bishops in developing countries either for that matter, even when they lobby ministers for applying the death sentence for being gay. Instead he perpetuates the myth that gay marriage is bad for society, giving respectability to abhorrent views.....

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 01:44 AM

Well, Mike, I think there may be a little bit of history in Exodus, but I won't speculate how much. As for Genesis, I think it's 99.326% myth - a wonderful, sacred, meaningful myth. All the attempts to "prove" Genesis are just so much hogwash, as far as I'm concerned.

Some theologians have posited that the Exodus story is meant as an allegory to tell the tale of the Babylonian Captivity. I don't think I buy that.

One commentary says that the first two chapters of Job and the last chapter, are an ancient Jewish folktale. The middle part of the book is theological writing from a later period, a study of the nature of good and evil. And by the way, those three chapters are very colorful, and quite funny.

. Whatever the case, I don't tie my self to the "historical facts" of the Old Testament. Still, it's a fascinating book.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Jun 13 - 01:19 AM

"when you read Jonah and come to that "Oh, Duh!" moment when you realize it's an allegory, then you begin to understand that much of the Bible is allegory" ····

Hmmm. Maybe, Joe. But you pick a nice simple, clear example. Further up, you say "The Genesis stories fall more clearly into the category of "myth" ... Exodus, I dunno".

Now, when you say "The Genesis stories", do you just mean the Creation parts, or the whole book which goes on much beyond that? - right up to Joseph & his brethren. Surely we need that bit if we are to get to the Egyptian exile, without which no Exodus for you to 'dunno' about? And which bits of that, anyhow? Presumably you are thinking of parting of Red Sea & Manna from Heaven & so on ~ but I take it you don't mean Moses was a mythical or allegorical figure, do you? & how about the Golden Calf? Obvious symbolic signif; but did it happen IYO?

So, taking your words 'much of' from first snip above, what criterion would you suggest for deciding *which* bits?

Can't help thinking that the answer may tend to the side of the ones you won't convince anyone that they could have been the case. A bit of an easy get-out it seems to me, if I may say so, without a bit clearer categorisation to distinguish the 'Duh' bits, before this argument is going to convince us lot, whether 'lumped together' or not!, that the basic hypothesis, of the existence, or the necessity, of some sort of creative/controlling entity, called 'God', should be any part of the equation.

Or do you postulate him as a 'I dunno'?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Jun 13 - 07:44 PM

You pose an interesting question, Pete. But yes, I think that Jesus and his disciples were far less "literalist," than are modern fundamentalist Christians. Job and Jonah are two of the most wonderful allegories written. I don't have any documentation of this, but I cannot believe that Jesus failed to see them as allegory.
As for the stories in Genesis, same thing - although the Genesis writings are not quite as clearly allegorical as Job and Jonah. The Genesis stories fall more clearly into the category of "myth" - and I think Jesus understood the creation stories as sacred myth. Exodus, I dunno.

If somebody reads the Book of Jonah in the Bible and tell me that it's "actual fact" and not an allegory, I know I'm dealing with a real idiot. And when you read Jonah and come to that "Oh, Duh!" moment when you realize it's an allegory, then you begin to understand that much of the Bible is allegory - and that allegory can be a very wonderful thing. By the way, Jonah and Job are the funniest books in the Bible, and they're very enjoyable reading.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 14 Jun 13 - 11:43 AM

but have,nt you moved the goalposts joe ,or do you think the Saviour,his apostles,and the church fathers interpreted scripture as you do.
yes i know that some of the latter did stretch allergory but not at the expense of the plain,historical,sense of the scripture.
i suppose you could include yourself in because so many leaders subscribe to similar compromise of traditional christian understanding and faith!
i tend to sympathise with those who are accusing the church of not really putting their cards on the table.if pastors and priests really expressed what they subscribe to ,i suspect some might transfer to churches where the cleric actually believes what he preaches.
i know that you have been entrusted with study leadership and from a scholarly perspective i would probably find you interesting,but i am curious as to whether your priest agrees with your views,and if so,does the congregation know.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Jun 13 - 05:30 AM

What I was taught in the Catholic seminary in Milwaukee in the 1960s, was not a literalist understanding of the Bible. Ever since, I have tried to teach Scripture with that in mind. I have tried to ensure that my students understand modern biblical criticism as deeply as they are able.

But on the other hand, I try to teach with respect for the story, and I don't "deconstruct" the story to the point where its impact is lost. Sometimes, no matter how hard I try, some students end up with a literalist understanding of the Bible, and it drives me crazy. I'm usually successful, but not always. My own godson (age 55), is mired in fundamentalism. He asked me to be his godfather when I was teaching him about Catholicism, but now he thinks I'm "not really Catholic." Grrr.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 08:29 PM

I think that the main thing that gets atheists' backs up is the sheer certainty expressed by religions, in their prayers, hymns, teachings and in what they peddle to children. I get vilified for my alleged evangelical atheism, yet I have not once expressed certainty about my stance and have said plenty of times that I disown "atheists" who express certainty. They are very foolish to do that. I don't know whether there's a God or not (though I'm a long way towards one end of the scale). I'm more than happy to declare that I think anyone on either side who expresses certainty about God's existence or non-existence is a fool. The unfortunate thing for the planet is that those on the existence side who set aside their uncertainties, if they have them, when they preach their creed to others, especially to children, do a huge amount of damage.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,Musket sans sin
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 03:34 PM

We have cultivated a fine crop then, let me tell you.

Turnips, neeps, swede. I suggest pouring a large glass and scan through the young earth creationist thread. Turnip broth.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 01:23 PM

Taking the bible literally is stupidity personified. I doubt people who are smarter than turnips do so anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,musket without sans
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 01:13 PM

Yes Joe. But how many of theologians pick up that point when stood behind the pulpit? If the philosophy is around using metaphor within the bible or torah or whatever to guide your moral compass then there would be no need for the incantations and professing allegiance to metaphysical creations and someone caught halfway between myth and history.

It is an article of faith to use words such as truth, gospel, living, or saying that Jesus did this and that. I have been to sacred places in New Zealand where the guides say "we traditionally believe that. ..." The least radical vicars, let alone the rest don't use the word traditional.

If a Church invites the meek poor humble and afflicted to join them in love, it is not very responsible to say "Ah well. They are clever enough to realise it is traditional rather than literal truth. " surely you aren't saying religion is dangerous for the gullible are you?

Read what pete says. Then tell me religion is about appreciating metaphor.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 09:24 PM

Musket, I think most of the "mainline" Christian churches - Presbyterians, Congregationalists, Lutherans, Anglicans, and Catholics - have large numbers of leaders and theologians who would say that much of Scripture is analogy.
"Literal" interpretation of Scripture is not very popular in most of the "mainline" Christian churches, or among Reform or Conservative Jews.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 07:20 PM

Darwin didn't swallow the Darwin dogma for two reasons. First, there is no Darwin dogma. There is a theory of evolution by means of natural selection. A theory. Not dogma. Second, being a man who wrestled with uncertainty all his life, he didn't swallow any dogma.

and what good has evolutionism done - other than supposedly dispelling ignorance.

Well, in my book, dispelling ignorance ranks pretty high. On the other hand, all religions spread ignorance in a most deliberate manner. I mean, what did the Romans ever do for us...?

but is that not what is called begging the question?

No it isn't. Go back to school. Steve and MtheGM are watching you.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 04:58 PM

i have heard that scientists will hold on to hypothesis/theories until such time as there is just too much evidence against it and there is another to replace it.philosophically driven ones will be harder to abandon.however cracks are already appearing even among evolutionists themselves.have you heard of the altenberg symposium?.
or the scientists registered as darwin doubters?.
at present evolutionism is promonent but for a long time science progressed very well under a biblical worldview.
so whats so dangerous about that?
and what good has evolutionism done - other than supposedly dispelling ignorance. but is that not what is called begging the question?

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,Musket sans respectability
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 04:07 PM

pete. When you talk of scientists that don't swallow the Darwin dogma you do, possibly inadvertently, describe most scientists. On the basis of working to a hypothesis in the absence of further evidence questioning said hypothesis.

However, that describes science. A hypothesis is there to be questioned and challenged to either make it more robust or dismiss it.

Biblical teaching cannot therefore be consistent with science as I have yet to hear an established church concede that Scripture is an analogy rather than describing reality.   It is the drifting towards acceptance of fantasy as reality that must, really must be shunned by society if we are to go forward for the benefit of all.

Sadly, that means questioning rather than accommodating your quaint but ultimately dangerous delusion. Sorry if that is insulting but we really need to stop patronising religion and making bishops feel important.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 01:30 PM

What a load of meaningless piffle. Apart from the sheer pig ignorance about science and the dissing of scientists all over again, of course. As for my dark ages allusion,, that is a well-known saying in the English language that does not relate to a given period in history. You know, that very same English language whose comprehension is clearly way beyond your puny grasp. In the words of Joan Baez, don't criticise what you can't understand. Or was it Jesus. Dylan Thomas, that was it.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 12:56 PM

i can hardly be insulting all the hardworking,honest scientists,even if your assesment were true,you badmouth all the ones that dont swallow the darwin dogma.
what dark ages was that steve?i reckon thats another myth.there was quite a lot of science and inventiveness in the so called dark ages.
mind you-with your lot restricting scientific discussion on origins in our schools we might be heading that way,since evolutionary thought hinders scientific progress by making wrong predictions.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 07:26 PM

sorry ian,,i was doing a hasty post earlier and did not clarify...

I keep telling you what a lazy bastard you are and you always oblige by proving it to us.

Oh Guest (lemme guess: "pete's uncle" perchance?), pete is the most impolite and rude person on this forum by miles. He routinely insults all working, honest scientists with his lazy brand of received wisdom. He chunders out the same old bilge all the time and never takes in or addresses anyone's points that don't fit his demented creationist views. He can't even be arsed to write half-decent English. I mean, how "polite" is that? Scumbags like him would have us all back in the dark ages in a heartbeat. Do reconsider.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 03:41 PM

sorry ian,,i was doing a hasty post earlier and did not clarify that i was replying to some points that jack raised.
the "lost in translation" as you call it does not mean that the main themes in scripture are not understandable but there are some more minor questions of interpretation,in this instance the scope of interpreting the hebrew word translated "image".
BTW searching sites since,it seems that the word even in english includes the use i suggested in gen 1.

thankyou guest whoever you are.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 11:13 AM

I don't understand why Pete gets slagged over his views. He says what's on his mind and moves on. Pete and I get along well because he never gives me his views on religion unless I ask. I did ask, he explained and although I see things differently, we get along. He doesn't shove his thoughts down anyone's throats and he's always very polite in a meaningful manner. IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 09:49 AM

Oblate spheroid apparently.

I note your point over translation. I suppose it is one thing to believe that scientific discovery has to be compared with biblical teaching, but doesn't the lost in translation bit concern you if you believe the scriptures hold true? 666 and all that?

Hanging on nothing has been clarified by other people as saying you need a reference point if you say it is hanging at all. That said, if this Isaiah person is from ancient times, it wasn't a bad stab at it. Whilst trying to rationalise the Bible with known physics is folly to say the least, it was written amongst other things as trying to understand the world around us. It is the primitive instinct to fill the gaps that spoils the effect.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 07:45 AM

back to the discussion!
all that day and night needs is a revolving earth and a source of light.no problem if you believe in God,he is described as light in himself.
isaiah describes the earth as a circle and as hanging on nothing.

inspiration applies to the original writings.meaning can be obscured in translation.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,Musket sans body
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 07:42 AM

Aye. God seems to move in mysterious ways. ....

Dirty double entendre? You'll have to let me in on this one Sailor Boy. My mind doesn't wallow in the sewer most of the time so I fail to see what my school nickname I had from junior school has to do with dirty anything? I can see a link between sailor and Dick Emery or the bitch stalking BA Calcutta (failed) in The Perishers but Musket? Takes a disturbed mind to make a phallic link there.

At long last you have appealed to the moderators. You have form when it comes to asking them to help dig you out of your hole. Surprised it took so long.

I don't abuse people, I abuse back. I do laugh at absurdity and there are a couple of posters on other threads who I banter with but only two people have no case for my respect and you are one of them.

If you keep asking questions about atheists don't knock the answers. Why bother asking if you suspect the answer doesn't accord with your preconceived opinion?

I suggest you buy some books to teach you how grown ups acquire knowledge.

In the meantime. ..


HELLO SAILOR!

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 06:30 AM

I bet Joe really loves the fact that he's on your side. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Jun 13 - 10:51 PM

"Atheist" is just a word like any other. Its not my fault that Ian Mather is psychotic about it.

Joe, It's not my fault that he is a combative idiot. I am not going to censor myself because those two are trying to bully me. If you want to stop the conflict, have the moderators sanction the the abuse. Ian Mather/Musket's name in most cases on this thread and a couple of others is personal abuse.

Musket says he uses that name so that he can abuse people and not be blamed for it in the real world. Shaw says he calls me names to "prod" me whatever that means.

They are deliberately being abusive, admitting that they are and it is my fault? I don't think so.

I appreciate your point of view. You think that I am making the dogs bark by provoking them. I can't say even the most reasonable thing about religion without provoking them. If the dogs can't behave, they should be put outside.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jun 13 - 10:29 PM

All I have to do is start a thread with the word "Atheist" in the title...

How 'bout if you don't start any more?

I hate all this conflict about something that should be so alien to conflict.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jun 13 - 08:29 PM

Ah more name calling.

Hypocrite! You've done a ton of name-calling yourself in the last couple of days in two threads. Do yourself a big favour and stop bleating about this.

Mr. Steve Shaw,

You do two of the three worst things possible on internet fora, Name calling and skimming. I'm not about to let you add stalking outside the forum.

I wouldn't stalk you if you were the last man on Earth. Sorry to deny you the compliment.

Do you want my name so that you can stalk me on online or are you planning to pay me a visit?

Nope. Even though your house would be easy to detect, what with all that smell of bullshit around it. I'm asking you your name because you're apparently denigrating another member for some alleged lack of transparency over names, yet you choose to keep your own name a mystery. Hypocrite! But don't worry. Even if I knew your name I wouldn't come near you with a ten-foot bargepole.

You do not even have enough sense to keep what is between me and Ian Mather between me an Ian Mather.

God, that's a laugh and a half. You have chosen to air this particular load of dirty linen in front of the whole forum. If it's between you and him, then why are you involving the rest of us by forcing us to read your silly and petulant remarks to him, all too publicly if you ask me?

I should also like to add that using "fora" as the plural of "forum" is pointless, ludicrous and thoroughly pretentious.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Jun 13 - 08:03 PM

Ah more name calling.

Mr. Steve Shaw,

You do two of the three worst things possible on internet fora, Name calling and skimming. I'm not about to let you add stalking outside the forum.

Do you want my name so that you can stalk me on online or are you planning to pay me a visit? You do not even have enough sense to keep what is between me and Ian Mather between me an Ian Mather. AND you don't give due attention to what is written here, even by yourself, so I am not surprised that you don't know why I am addressing him as such.

If you are tired of the contents of these threads, as you say you are and I do not believe, the obvious thing to do is to ignore them. Go back to Dawkins, report that you have failed and ask him if he has a new book of taunts for you to try.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jun 13 - 07:37 PM

Nah then Wacko, loath as I am to enter this personal affray that you appear to be pursuing with Musket/Ian, let me ask you something. He's called Ian Mather. I'm called Steve Shaw (check it out - I'm in the phone book). You appear to not like people hiding behind pseudonyms, etc. So who are you? What's your full name, Wacko? Either bloody well tell us or please shut up about this. You are being tiresome, tedious and obsessively-repetitive, and I doubt that anyone else here knows or cares about your beef.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Jun 13 - 05:10 PM

" I don't make myself look stupid when trying to be serious either.

One of us tries to come over as an idiot and the other one doesn't. "

Lets look at the evidence before we guess...

The one obsessed with making his own name a dirty double entendre?

The one constantly calling people names?

The one who published his own name here then ORDERED a person he was hounding and berating not to repeat it and thus aid and abet him in lying about himself?

The one who seems to be taking this conversation seriously even though for weeks, when he addresses I have been doing nothing but rubbing his nose in his own childishness and abuse, when he addresses me?

The one with the irrational fixation on the word "maths."

I don't know if you are TRYING to come off as an idiot. But you are certainly acting like a fool.

Do yourself a favor. Take a break. Abandon the nasty persona of "musket" and if you must let off steam, buy yourself a punching bag. If you want a picture of me to put on it, draw it yourself. Your imagination is far more vivid than your reality.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Jun 13 - 04:57 PM

Guest, Appreciate the advice, but I am pretty sure that pete knows the source.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jun 13 - 04:41 PM

http://www.bartleby.com/108/01/1.html

People should quote their sources.

Subject: RE: BS: Militant atheism has become a religion
From: GUEST,Musket sans sailor seaman
Date: 10 Jun 13 - 04:18 PM

I don't start threads on subjects I wish to ridicule. I don't make myself look stupid when trying to be serious either.

One of us tries to come over as an idiot and the other one doesn't.

Any guesses?