BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 03:36 PM

Rag, so you can not produce anything to support your assertions, but I could.
You lose.

Jim, Labour List on Chakrabarti,
" On a day in which at least one major milestone in the fight against anti-Semitism in the Labour party was achieved the news has, instead, focussed on the mishandling and outrageous racism at the launch event.

Many outlets reported Jeremy Corbyn's apparent equation of Israel and ISIS. Any correlation between the two would be wrong and offensive. His office claim he was misquoted and to me, his language was clumsy but then Jeremy never was a great wordsmith. However he did state, for the first time quite explicitly, that there was certain behaviour that should not be welcome in the Labour party and that for example the word "Zio" was a racist epithet that has no place in our party. It was shameful that a Momentum activist, took the opportunity to launch into one of the oldest anti-Semitic tropes as part of an attack on Ruth Smeeth. The unwelcoming environment for Jews remains and the press had the perfect example of just how it plays out."

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 03:31 PM

" Ok, show me something that says the word was considered racists ten years ago never mind 50!"

When I was a child in the late 50's early 60's MY parents taught me it was wrong to label people as such. Not only MY parents but the parents of my friends and acquaintances. Not one of us would utter a word like that.

The mere fact that YOU don't recognise it as being racist 1, 2, 5, 10 or even 50 years ago, as I do, clearly demonstrates without a shadow of a doubt YOUR inbred racism.

People with your attitude are an absolute disgrace.

Describing you as a little Englander actually works in your a favour because it makes an "excuse" for you not being intelligent enough in your own right to know instinctively that referring to people as "piccaninnies " is utterly, totally and completely wrong.

I hope you sleep well tonight, but before you sleep say a prayer to your god and ask forgiveness for your ignorance.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 03:22 PM

Jim,
There was no major antisemitism found in the Labour Party , as hard as Keith tried.

Yes there was. Quite a lot. See the Chakrabarti report.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 03:18 PM

"There you have it Keith, the Jews are the cause of anti-semitism in the Labour party."
That was as blatent an antisemitic statement as has ever been made on this forum - the rest of us think it is the Israeli propaganda machine
There was no major antisemitism found in the Labour Party , as hard as Keith tried.
Never mind eh?
A pair of Trolls - please don't start breeding.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 03:17 PM

The fact that it may not have caused this young man's death is not relevent to the fact that bullying takes place in the Tory Party

Yes, and it is despicable.
At least there was a prompt enquiry and the resignation of the party chairman.

No Labour resignations yet from any of their antisemites, bullies, misogynists and homophobes.

Moving on, do you agree with the Daily Mirror on Momentum (violent, unprincipled and self-aggrandising bullies killing the Labour Party), or with the 14 women MPs on misogyny and homophobia in the party?
Did you miss those posts?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 02:54 PM

There you have it Keith, the Jews are the cause of anti-semitism in the Labour party.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 02:08 PM

AND AGAIN
Israel's targetting British politicians seems to be common knowledge
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 01:52 PM

Finding no connection doesn't meen there wa#sn't one, nor does it mean that bullyinhgg didn't take placce, which you haven't responded to - nor did you respond to the other examples of bullying - more to come.
The fact that it may not have caused this young man's death is not relevent to the fact that bullying takes place in the Tory Party
As I said, bullying is only important if it is alleged to be done by Labour people.
ISRAEL TARGETS BRITISH POLITICIANS
WITCH HUNT
NOTHING TO DO WITH ISRAEL MY ARSE
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 01:31 PM

Jim,
YOU WON'T RESPOND TO THIS

Yes I will.
BBC last May,
"However, Mr Osborne (Coroner)said he found "no connection" between Mr Johnson's complaint and CWF's decision to make him redundant.
Mr Johnson's father Ray said he believed Mr Clarke, who denied the bullying allegations, had "ruined" his son's career.
"We were unaware of, at the time, a victimisation campaign by Mr Clarke towards Elliott and other members of the Conservative Way Forward, which was getting steadily worse," he said.
Mr Johnson's allegations eventually sparked an investigation and the resignation of former party chairman Grant Shapps.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-36417699

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 01:30 PM

"No informed decent government believes all that propaganda Jim."]
Then you are not ashamed of yourself - pathetic
"Moving on, this thread is about the UK Labour Party."
It is about what we widh it to be - you are as fascist as Israel with your bahaviour
"self-aggrandising bullies killing the Labour Party), "
I don't know until I see the evidence
Do you agree with Tory bullies killing members of their own party - or is it only alleged Labour bullying you care about?
Told you you wouldn't respond to it
TRY THIS
Jim Carroll
Will be back with more about the Israeli campaign against left politicians later

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 12:52 PM

No informed decent government believes all that propaganda Jim.
No liberal democracy, just some of the world's nastier, undemocratic regimes who hate democracies like ors and Israel's.

Moving on, this thread is about the UK Labour Party.
Do you agree with the Daily Mirror on Momentum (violent, unprincipled and self-aggrandising bullies killing the Labour Party), or the 14 women MPs on misogyny and homophobia in the party?
Did you miss those posts?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 11:29 AM

"Who describes Israel as such?"
Thought you didn't want to discuss Isreal (only in order to defend it, it seems)
Just about every human rights organisation who ever reported on it.
Victims of its terrorism.
Medical services tending the Victims
Journalist writing reports on the mass#acres.
Independent reports, such as that on Sabra/Shatila
Television documentaries
The list is endless
Can't speak for politicians
If it hadn't been for U.S. vetoes, they would have been tried for war crimes - but then again, the U.S. record on hman rights issues isnt one to recommend it.
Israel were so sure that they were innocent they called for the Court to be abolished.
"No single decent democracy."
You mean - politician don't you
You ought to be ashamed of yourself fdefemnding attrocities with such a pathetic excuse - tell me again about your Christianity!!
"violent, unprincipled and self-aggrandising bullies killing the Labour Party"
Anther stick eh - any evidence other than electiooneering in-fighting by the right.
YOU WON'T RESPOND TO THIS
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 10:59 AM

Rag,
Unusual my arse, you are trying yet again to defend the indefensible and trying yet again to cover for your own innate racism.

Ok, show me something that says the word was considered racists ten years ago never mind 50!
In the old thread there was no suggestion that it might be racist, just not PC.
McGrath said it was in common use with no negative connotations in his youth.

Jim,
Pack this in Keith, you are becoming obsessive in your support of a terrorist state.
Who describes Israel as such?
No single decent democracy.
Just the nasty regimes that hate Israel and all other liberal democracies.

Stop trying to censor discussion - you've been warned about your tendency to do so on innumerable occasions.

It is impossible for ordinary members to censor discussion, and I have never been warned about any such thing.
You are making shit up as usual Jim.

Moving on, do you agree with the Mirror on Momentum (violent, unprincipled and self-aggrandising bullies killing the Labour Party), or the 14 women MPs on misogyny and homophobia?
Did you miss those posts?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 07:00 AM

"Is in itself an anti-semitic endeavour."
Israel is not the Jewish people and it is Antisemitic to suggest it is - by its own accepted definition
You are an Antisemite
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 06:43 AM

the BOYCOTT ISRAEL CAMPAIGN

Is in itself an anti-semitic endeavour.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 06:15 AM

You don't make somebody accused of racism any more than you make somebody found guilty of facilitating the massacre of 3,500 unarmed refugees Prime Minister.
Doing so brands the government s concerned as supporting those crimes.
PICCANINNY
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 05:43 AM

Unusual my arse, you are trying yet again to defend the indefensible and trying yet again to cover for your own innate racism.

The fact that YOU don't recognise it speaks volumes.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 05:41 AM

"If there was not a serious problem, enquiries would not be needed."
All it takes is an accusation to be made for an enquiry to be needed - doesn't work for the Tory party apparently.
No serious racism or bigotry was uncovered -as I said, end of story.
"Accused by who"
Go look it up Keith - plenty of coverage, several examples given.
"If you mean Israel, I was asking that it HAVE a thread."
Pack this in Keith, you are becoming obsessive in your support of a terrorist state.
Stop trying to censor discussion - you've been warned about your tendency to do so on innumerable occasions.
Can we clear up this "right and left" garbage?
The Labour Party has been in the hands of the right wing for a long time now, Blair's "New Labour" was only the confirmation of what had been happening for decades.
It will be some time before Labour can ever be accused of being "Left" - the constitutional parties are indistinguishable one from another.
Antisemitm and racism have always been rge don#main of the right, while opposition to these, wherever it came from has always been branded as "Ledtie"
The German Right constructed and filled the death camps and the British Right supported them in doing so - The Daily Mail, The Duke of Wellington, the Right Club - all good Tory supporters.
The Left, alongside the Jews, the Gypsies and those considered physically and mentally unfit for society, went into the ovens - vctims of right-wing politics.
The B.N.P., National Front, Ukip are all right-wing organisations.
Given the fact that a large number of British people have declared themselves to be racist in thought and in deed, it is hardly surprising that a few bad apples have made their way into what was once, but o longer is a left wing Party
Racism, Antisemitism and many other forms of bigotry and intolerance are diseases of the right, not the left.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 05:21 AM

Rag, read the thread.
Your experience is very unusual or more likely your memory is wrong.

Daily Mirror 20 hours ago,
"Jeremy Corbyn is not about to shut down Momentum.
But he should.
What started as a movement to propel a quiet man to power has become a magnet for violent, unprincipled and self-aggrandising bullies.
They have damaged not only the reputation of Corbyn and forced him into contortions over his beliefs, but are killing the Labour Party."

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 05:07 AM

Not recognised as racist, Piccaninnies ? !!!!!


What bloody planet are you on? That word was recognised as racist when I was a child over 50 years ago.

Yet another example of you trying to defend the indefensible, so no change there.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 04:58 AM

Jim,

The Labour Party has carried out two enquiries and has found there not to be a serious majoir problem and made a number of recommendations in order for there not to be a problem in the future

If there was not a serious problem, enquiries would not be needed.
The NEC had acknowledged that it was a serious issue.
Chakrabarti found considerable antisemitism that had been ignored for years and made recommendations to deal with it.
What was the second enquiry Jim?

We now have a FOREIGN SECRETARY who has been accused of racism.
Accused by who and on what grounds Jim.
Your linked article gives no clue.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 04:51 AM

Jim,
It is somewhat gratifying to see you wriggle and plead that one of your favourite atrocity committers not be discussed on this forum

If you mean Israel, I was asking that it HAVE a thread.
Obviously a thread about the UK Labour Party is no place for it.
Do feel free to report me to anyone you like.

Chakrabarti inquiry: Labour not overrun by anti-Semitism

No-one ever claimed it was Jim, but she found that there was antisemitism and it had been ignored for years.

. As I said to Keith, show me a senior Labour official who has stated that any named individual has been found guilty of antisemitism.

I can't Steve, because they are so coy about naming names.
It has been unequivocally accepted though that these unnamed antisemites exist and needed to be reigned in.

Rag,
What was it Boris Johnson called African children ??? "Piccaninnies" wasn't it

That was many years ago when the word was not recognised as racists here.
See this thread, especially McGrath's contributions.thread.cfm?threadid=33069#438827

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 04:19 AM

The Labour Party has carried out two enquiries and has found there not to be a serious majoir problem and made a number of recommendations in order for there not to be a problem in the future - end of story.
The Tory Party has been accused of ISLAMOPHOBIA and RACISM - no action has been suggested, let alone acted upon.
We now have a FOREIGN SECRETARY who has been accused of racism.
Now who shall I vote for, let me see.....?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 04:11 AM

When examining itself Shaw the "Left" don't do "blame" - their mantra after all is that it is - "Always someone else's fault" - which is why they say that there has never been a "truly socialist" government - because to some extent or other they have all failed to deliver.

Keith A's quotes from Naz Shah about her "anti-Semitic" comments, that you said you acknowledged - don't they count Steve?

As for searching through your posts? Naw not today got too much planned and too busy enjoying myself.

One for Raggy to ponder though on "Palestine" and "Palestinians" both of which were "invented" by Yasser Arafat in the early 1970s when he lost his "open cheque" backing from the former front-line Arab States. If what your pal Shaw says about references to Israel including both Arab, non-Jewish and Jewish citizens, then obviously any reference to "Palestine" and "Palestinians" must include everyone who lives there the Jews of "Palestine" as well as the Arabs and non-Arabs. Best show me a map of this Palestine of yours Raggy, preferably one from the PA, Hamas or Hezbollah that shows clearly these two-states, Israel and Palestine, that form this two-state solution they say they are "fighting" for.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 03:19 AM

Very amusing, Teribus. Absolutely nothing that we haven't done to death already. As I said to Keith, show me a senior Labour official who has stated that any named individual has been found guilty of antisemitism. Whilst I'd love to keep you off the streets all day while you search, instead I'll do you a favour and save your time. There isn't one. As I said to Keith, give me a clear-cut example, not a whole bunch of interpretable remarks about " serious issues" and "appalled by." In a nutshell, almost all cases of loose talk (which I don't defend in the least - the perpetrators are bloody idiots) have been sideswipes at Israel as a nation or at the Israeli regime, not at Jews because they are Jews. With your alleged penchant for accuracy, I'd have thought that you at least would have recognised that, but no, you would much rather stick with the sleazy cabal of ideologues you've signed up with.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 03:16 AM

"Start a thread then Jim. This on is about UK Labour Party."
Never agaon tell anyone here what to say or where to say it on this forum or I shall ask that you be removed.
It is somewhat gratifying to see you wriggle and plead that one of your favourite atrocity committers not be discussed on this forum - dream on.
As far as I am concerned, it is reasonable to surmise that the accusations of Antisemitism against one of the leading political parties in Britain has emanated from the propaganda to defend Israel from the BOYCOTT ISRAEL CAMPAIGN
The enquiry into Antisemitism reached the conclusion that tyhere was




Chakrabarti inquiry: Labour not overrun by anti-Semitism

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 02:31 AM

Steve Shaw - 26 Jul 16 - 02:27 PM

"The Labour Party has not found her or anyone else guilty of antisemitism."

Really?? Opening sentence in the "Conclusions" Section of the Chakrabarti Report:

"This Inquiry was triggered by a series of unhappy incidents which did no credit to the Labour Party."

Note "a series of unhappy incidents" NOT "allegations of a series of unhappy incidents" there is no attempt at all in the report to minimise them as you have done Shaw.

Key recommendation No.1 in the Report:

1. Epithets such as "Paki", "Zio" and others should have no place in Labour Party discourse going forward.

Care to enlighten us as to what a "Zio" would be Shaw? A Zionist perhaps?

Key recommendation No.4 in the Report:

4. Labour members should resist the use of Hitler, Nazi and Holocaust metaphors, distortions and comparisons in debates about Israel-Palestine in particular.

Care to also explain why Cllr Allan Parry NEC came out with this statement then:

"The NEC are appalled by recent cases of antisemitic abuse. Antisemitism has no place in the Labour Party and is contrary to everything we stand for. Jeremy introduced a new code of conduct for the party, which states:

"The Labour Party is an anti-racist party, committed to combating and campaigning against all forms of racism…. Labour will not tolerate racism in any form inside or outside the party….Any behaviour or use of language which targets or intimidates members of ethnic or religious communities or incites racism, including anti-Semitism…or undermines Labour's ability to campaign against any form of racism, is unacceptable".

Within his definition of anti-racist your Party Leader includes anti-Semitism, you seem to want to exclude it reading what you have posted.

"The NEC are appalled by recent cases of antisemitic abuse. Antisemitism has no place in the Labour Party and is contrary to everything we stand for."

Now for them to have been appalled by those recent cases then there had to have been substance to them. No mention at all there of "allegations of anti-Semitic abuse". That two investigations have been undertaken and two reports written detailing recommendations and actions to be taken would lend one to believe that Labour's NEC did view it as a serious issue and they did deal with it seriously - "serious issue" and "an issue being dealt with seriously" are not mutually exclusive terms, don't pretend that they are.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 07:26 PM

Thank God it's you, Raggytash, and not 'im. I would have had to talk to him to tell him what a twit he is, just when I need to get to bed. Nighty-night, and don't let the definition-twisting delusionals bite!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 07:19 PM

Bloody Computers !!!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 07:18 PM

Daftest HA !

Which coast of Ireland on?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 05:54 PM

Tell me why.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 05:41 PM

Steve Shaw - 26 Jul 16 - 03:46 PM

Now for someone who advises people to read through the thread Shaw then that post of yours referred to above is probably the daftest thing you've ever written - and believe me that takes a bit of doing.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 03:46 PM

A stupid post, full of denial, content-free, unsupportable assertions, just a smear. Nice one, Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 03:28 PM

LLong LLLLive the Liberal LLLLLLabor Party

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 03:16 PM

Jim,
And I am inviting you to provide some real proof other than "Israel says they did't do it

Start a thread then Jim. This on is about UK Labour Party.

Steve,

The Labour Party has not found her or anyone else guilty of antisemitism.

Yes they have Steve.
You denied the antisemitism, but the Labour Party has recognised it.
Shay has recognised it in herself, and with the help of the Jewish community has informed herself of the real evil.

1000 anyone?
My gift.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 02:27 PM

"Your denial of her and others' antisemitism just shows that you do not recognise it when you see it. Labour accepts it for what it was. Why won't you Steve?"

The Labour Party has not found her or anyone else guilty of antisemitism. You have because you want that wider definition of yours, which you've already lied in your teeth to us about, to apply. She made an extremely stupid remark about relocating "Israel" to the US. Israel is a country, Keith. It contains a quarter Arabs and three-quarters Jews. If I say that South Africans are bastards, that would be an extremely stupid remark, but not racist. Even though most South Africans are black, a considerable number are not. If I say that black South Africans are bastards, that's racist. If I say that all the Jews should be removed from Israel, that's antisemitic. Antisemitism is a crime against people, not against a whole country. There is a world of difference between a bloody stupid, thoughtless remark and an antisemitic remark. The far right, including you, the Mail and the Telegraph are the people calling her antisemitic. The Labour Party have not said that. So stop lying. And please stop providing us with interpretable comments as if they are proof. Find me instead a Labour official who says that Naz Shah is antisemitic.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 02:10 PM

"I am encouraging you to expose your gullibility to propaganda again"
And I am inviting you to provide some real proof other than "Israel says they did't do it and the silence of self-serving politicians who sell arms to monsters and stayed silent for 14 years while America poured burning petrol down on Vietnamese peasants.
How stupid can you get?
I take it we've heart#d the last of your "thread-drift" gambit when you find yourself in the klarts!!
"Please, please start one about Israel Jim."
Stop grovelling and take your punishment like a man
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 01:54 PM

What was it Boris Johnson called African children ??? "Piccaninnies" wasn't it and Africans have "Watermelon" smiles wasn't it, again according to Johnson.

Now if you're talking about appalling comments I'd start with the Tory party.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 01:51 PM

"Anything specific about any one or more given person ..."
This is no more than a thrashing around to pin things on the Labour party that are present in every aspect of British life
CHURCH of ENGLAND
CHURCH of ENGLAND
CHURCH of ENGLAND
As I said - bloody nonsense
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 01:50 PM

So I have been warned many times against doing something that is impossible anyway!

I do not want to censor your nonsense about Israel.
I am encouraging you to expose your gullibility to propaganda again, but this thread has nothing to do with Israel or the Middle East.

This thread is about the UK Labour Party.
Please, please start one about Israel Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 01:33 PM

"There are no right wing extremists here"
Know thyself Keith
"and censorship is impossible for ordinary members"
I'm fully aware of that, are you - if so, why do you keep trying to manipulate these threads - you have been doing it for years ad have been warned against it numerous times.
I assume that, now you are aware of it, it won't happen again!!
homophobia
Yet another stick to beat Labour with - this has acquired an air of desperation.
"CofE yes. And I know them better than you."
Utter bloody nonsense
Churchgoers are just as likely to be homophobic as anybody from other community or group in Britain.
Religion, by its very teaching, is homophobic and it would be a miracle if there weren't hordes of churchgoers of every denomination who weren't deeply homophobic.
Not that you would know - you have displayed some of the most inhuman and non-Christian attitudes I have ever come across.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 01:30 PM

Anything specific about any one or more given person ................


No thought not.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 12:51 PM

This article has been written by 14 Labour Party members: Honor Cohen, Ilford North; Emma O'Dwyer, Hackney North; Carli Harper, Greenwich and Woolwich; Katie Curtis, Hornsey and Wood Green; Estelle Hart, Gower; Melantha Chittenden, Ashford; Vic Langer, Hornsey and Wood Green; Chantel Le Carpentier, Eastleigh; Katrina Gilman, Telford; Ruth Meadows, Telford; Natacha Kennedy, Eltham; Deirdre Costigan, Ealing North; Amy Lame, Holborn and St Pancras; Katie Hanson, Hackney South and Shoreditch.

"The Labour Party is the party of equality. It was past Labour governments that decriminalised homosexuality and introduced comprehensive legislative change on LGBT rights. The Labour Party has played a distinguished and major part in making the UK a more open and tolerant society on issues of sexuality and women's rights over the past few decades.

Yet now, under political pressure, the debate within the Labour Party about its future direction is coarsened by misogyny aimed at women politicians and open homophobia directed at a leadership candidate."

"The misogyny and homophobia that women politicians and party members experience on social media when people have political differences needs to stop – but the frequency with which it happens makes reporting and taking action an endless task. We have relatively few women in parliament and in local government who are out so, when high profile out women politicians are trolled online, degraded in meetings and receive death threats by email, increasing representation from this group can only be held back."

"There is a worrying further development, namely the denial of prejudice. In the back and forth on social media, broadcast media and in the press there are repeated denials of any sexist or homophobic motive in criticism aimed at candidates and those who have openly taken a political side. This denial occurs even when clearly there is prejudice, and there is evidence that there is."
http://labourlist.org/2016/07/if-homophobia-is-allowed-back-into-politics-then-it-takes-society-back-to-the-dark-ages/

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 12:42 PM

Jim,
And I find it hilarious how you right wing extremists always revert to censorship when the going gets tough

There are no right wing extremists here, and censorship is impossible for ordinary members.
I do not want you to stop discussing Israel. I would welcome the chance to debunk all your propaganda again. I just will not help you to hijack a thread that has nothing whatever to do with Israel.

jack,

There is a serious issue with racism in the Labour Party but it has nothing to do with anti-Semitism.
The NEC, the Chakrabarti report and numerous prominent Labour politicians disagree with you on that.

No-one has been found guilty of antisemitism, you arrogant sod.

Yes they have, but Chakrabarti chose not to name them. (Peerage on its way?)
Shah has admitted that she made antisemitic statements due to her ignorance of the issues.

Your denial of her and others' antisemitism just shows that you do not recognise it when you see it. Labour accepts it for what it was. Why won't you Steve?

So you reckon that no-one who goes to church is antisemitic,

CofE yes. And I know them better than you.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 12:10 PM

That was to Keith, Jack.

"Racist collaborators" is a bit strong. Calling the racist agenda out for what it was because of its attacks on immigrants would have been like calling half the country racist and that would hardly have swung the bloody thing round. The remain campaign was uncoordinated and tactically bereft and made worse by the employment of the fear factor, and the out campaign always had that immigration trump card, used cynically to the full. Let's not forget that Cameron and May had sealed their own fate by promising to control immigration and failing abysmally. I agree that Labour did not exhibit a strong, united front and that Corbyn lacked genuine commitment. But the Tories, who forced the bloody referendum on us, was split from arse to tit, which doomed Cameron in the end.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 11:58 AM

No-one has been found guilty of antisemitism, you arrogant sod. I haven't heard a single reported remark that attacked Jews BECAUSE THEY ARE JEWS. I would neither stay in nor vote for a party that allowed comments like that to pass and I've never allowed it in my own personal life, including in 25 years in secondary school classrooms. Yes I've heard unguarded remarks about Israel, Zionism and the Nazis that were bloody stupid and made without regard for consequences but there has been no attack on Jews as Jews, allegedly apart from the one about the slave trade that you had to misrepresent so as to wedge it into your antisemitism box (nothing as bad as "culturally implanted," was it, though, Keith?). Stuff your silly personal definition of antisemitism where the sun don't shine, why don't you. Unbelievable. I mean, who do you think you are, judge, jury and executioner? Are you sure you can spare the time from your job as self-appointed forum policeman? So you reckon that no-one who goes to church is antisemitic, eh, notwithstanding the fact that religion is THE basis for sectarianism and hatred of The Other the world over? Only Labour members, eh? Add gross naivety to your long list of personality defects, Keith! 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 11:55 AM

There is a serious issue with racism in the Labour Party but it has nothing to do with anti-Semitism.

The Brexit campaign was the deadliest racist initiative in the UK since the rise of Mosley, and what did Labour do to fight it? Fuck all. And that particularly goes for Corbyn. Pathetic bunch of wimps, at best, and racist collaborators at worst.

It would not have been that difficult to flush Farage and his pals down the toilet of history if they'd actually reached up to pull the chain. Instead they did NOTHING, with a few honourable exceptions like Jo Cox (who would still be alive if the UKIP soldier who killed her had seen he was outnumbered by a united opposition).

Labour is a moribund irrelevance, and good riddance to it.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 11:29 AM

Don't you just love it !!

"Teribus" talks of "Palestine" as so it is a figment of someone's imagination rather like Akenaton and his gay "marriage"

Neither can accept that both are a reality, there is a state of Palestine which in 2001 applied for United Nations membership.

In 2012 Palestine was granted non-member observer state status. That in itself clearly demonstrates that the UN acknowledge it's statehood.

Mind you he has said that Palestine was created by Yassar Arafat in he 1970' despite it being mentioned in the Bible.

Must dig that post of "Terbus's" out it was hilarious, a first class example of uneducated bluster.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 10:18 AM

"Jim, Israel is not accused of illegal actions by any liberal democracy, because it is just anti-Israel propaganda."
Your point is....?
You were happy enough to make your pro-Israeli points yesterday but not to defend them when challenged.
"Only you actually Jim!"
Not necessarily true, but so what - can I only make points that are accepted by others - another self-concocted rule?
"This thread is about the Labour Party"
This thread is about whatever we regard is relevant to this subject - can't see your little copyright mark anywhere
Will you please stop breaking the rules of this forum by attempting to censor inconvenient facts - you do this far too much
"No. I will just stick to the subject and not get drawn in."
Who cares whether you join in or not - we know what you will say anyway
"Please start one Jim."
Please mind your own business
"I find it amusing that you lefties are so desperate to change the subject."
And I find it hilarious how you right wing extremists always revert to censorship when the going gets tough - tanks and paras next maybe?
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO INTERFERE WITH MY CONTRIBUTIONS TO THIS FORUM EVER AGAIN - WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?

"Not really interested in Jom's conspiracy theories"
Not really interested in braindeads who attemp to hide their affliction by talking down to people permanently, particularly those who can't be bothered to learn to spell three-letter words - come back when somebody's taught you how to conduct yourself in public.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 10:13 AM

It's a handful of members, mostly junior, who need to watch their mouths, and the culprits have acknowledged what they did. Over half a million Labour members, on the other hand, have never been accused. That's how "disgraceful" it is.

You would call it disgraceful in any other party.
And they do not need to "watch their mouths" but educate themselves out of the antisemitism betrayed by their mouths.

You can bet your life that if there are 200 people in your pews next Sunday, a few dozen of them would do a buttock shuffle if you told them that a devout Jewish family were moving in next door.

A disgusting falsehood Steve.
I would bet my life not one.

You must still be a teenager then, Keith.

No, because this is nothing to do with polling, but a party "teetering on the edge of extinction."
There has been nothing like the current Labour shambles in our lifetime.