BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 04 Sep 16 - 07:37 AM

Jeffrey Goldberg of The Atlantic on why he will stop reading Haaretz:

Look, when neo-Nazis are e-mailing me links to Haaretz op-eds declaring Israel to be evil, I'm going to take a break, sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 16 - 06:28 AM

He resorts to it when things aren't going his way, Jim. He tries it on me all the time. When he's not telling us to stick to discussing the Labour Party, he's rattling on about Israel himself all the time. He's busted. A desperado.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Sep 16 - 06:16 AM

"If you want the full rebuttal, reopen or start another Israel thread.
This is about UK Labour Party"
If you don't want a debate on Israel's obvious links to Israel's part in attacks on the Labour Party - start another thread and clearly mark it ALL ADVERSE COMMENTS ON ISRAELI TERRORISM ARE STRICTLY FORBIDDEN
What have you been told - over and over again - about attempting to manipulate these discussions?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Sep 16 - 06:07 AM

"None has been produced by your side."
None that you wwish to respond to, you mean
You have it - if it is not true, prove it isn't
I think everybody here must be pretty bored with your constant denials.
"You say she did, so produce it."
It has been produced - I gave up blowing noses and wiping bums decades ago.
How about actually producing some real evidence for your persistent attacks on the Labourt Party - so far, you have produced only accusations from contenders for Corbyn's position and smears Pro-Israeli activists intent on stopping the 'Boycott Israel' campaign.
You demand something that has already been presented, yet you refuse to produce anything to back up your long-running accusations against the Labour party other than crude, Pro-Israeli propaganda.
No deal Keith
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 16 - 05:41 AM

It was facts, not propaganda, and it did not come from Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 16 - 05:10 AM

Jim,
"And you two take sides against her, with lies and smears."
Youve had the information on thet one too -

None has been produced by your side.

If you have evidnece that what she is accused of is not true - PROVE IT

If she did not say such things, there can be no evidence.
You say she did, so produce it.

Steve,
You've had the truth about what really happens in Israel in Jim's link, and it can all be corroborated.

This is about Smeeth being subject to an antisemitic attack.
How does any of that propaganda from Jim about Israel relate to that?

Jim,,
Any moron can just repeat "they didn't do it"

If you want the full rebuttal, reopen or start another Israel thread.
This is about UK Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Sep 16 - 04:29 AM

!Same old extremist opinions from extremist sources posted by a mentally ill anti-Semite....."
Two of those "opinions" came from "Haaretz", the rest came from reputable people and organisations - all "mentally ill"!!!
Much easier to claim the world is mad rather than admit to your own inhumanity - let alone actually respond to the points made.
Official response to evictions
Haaretz
EQUALITY for the BEDOUINS
N.Y.Times
Racism is prevalent in Israel
Haaretz

Equality my arseum
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 16 - 03:10 AM

After that stupid remark you definitely lose!😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 03 Sep 16 - 06:15 PM

Same old extremist opinions from extremist sources posted by a mentally ill anti-Semite......ho, hum.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Sep 16 - 05:37 PM

I suppose it would be infra dig to tell booboo and Keith that "they lose..." 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Sep 16 - 05:23 PM

He's not even good at this
Any moron can just repeat "they didn't do it"
you'd have thought such a dedicated fanatic should show a little more imagination
They don't make atrocity deniers like they used to
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Sep 16 - 04:08 PM

You're busted, Keith. You've had the truth about what really happens in Israel in Jim's link, and it can all be corroborated. You blindly support a stinking regime that routinely puts its own people in jeopardy, Jews and non-Jews alike. As we saw in the referendum, politicians find it easy to hoodwink their own people. That's what's happened for decades in Israel, with the disgraceful collusion of the US, among others. I support the nation of Israel, and I wish every Israeli citizen peace, security and prosperity. One fine day you may want to ditch your Islamophobic prejudices and come and join me.

And bobad, chime in by all means, but do realise that you are a total irrelevance, incapable of making a single valid point.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Sep 16 - 04:04 PM

"Can you produce anything to justify your suggestion that she was pro all those nasty things you listed?"
By the way - those "nasty things I listed" were a response to Bobad's claim of equality in Israel - nothing to do with your "witness" - if you can't bother reading what is posted, you really shouldn't be here.
They are all responses to the myth of "equality" in Israel - two of them come from the Israeli press.
I soppose they are all "lies and smears" - but my guess is that you will ignore them and go on saying Israel never did nuffin'
That seems to be what you are
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Sep 16 - 03:54 PM

"Jim, we agree there is nothing wrong with being "pro-Israel" as you accused Smeeth."
Repetition again Keith - you've had my response - if you can't live with it, feel free not to.
"And you two take sides against her, with lies and smears."
Youve had the information on thet one too - if you can't live with ir, don't.
Same old, same old Keith Isreal never dun nuffin to nobody and everything her friends did is "all lises and smears
Sighhhhhhhh
If you have evidnece that what she is accused of is not true - PROVE IT
The same goes for all your "witbnsesses" - virtually all linked directly to Israeli propaganda and those who aren't are fighting to bring Corbyn down
You really have blown it here
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Sep 16 - 01:58 PM

Same old Professor Spew. Tiresome.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 16 - 01:26 PM

Jim, we agree there is nothing wrong with being "pro-Israel" as you accused Smeeth.

Can you produce anything to justify your suggestion that she was pro all those nasty things you listed?
No.
Can you justify your attempt to smear her as having made, "Islamophobic racist rantings against the Palestinian people?"
No.
Just lies and smears because she dared to object to her experience of anti-semitic abuse from her supposed Labour Party comrades.

And you two take sides against her, with lies and smears.
For shame.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Sep 16 - 12:41 PM

"They won't read your last link, Jim."
Bobad has said he refuses to read anything we put up
Open minds eh?
I suppose Haaretz comes under "Self-hating Jews"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Sep 16 - 12:38 PM

blame everything on Hamas

Or space aliens. Anti-semitic ones, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Sep 16 - 12:12 PM

They won't read your last link, Jim. Their automatic denial buttons can't stand it. Or maybe they'll read it and blame everything on Hamas.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Sep 16 - 10:50 AM

"based on equality"
"In Israel, Instead of Equal Rights, No Equality at All
Netanyahu's 'nation-state' bill undermines the notion that Israel's Arab population is entitled to collective rights, not just individual ones.
read more:
Haaretz

Freedom of religion"
"Israel's claim to be a place that guarantees freedom of religion is questionable in light of its treatment of Muslims. The fact that the state of Israel doesn't hesitate in limiting Muslim worshipers from entering their holiest place in the country cannot be viewed as a tolerant or democratic action. If Israel is to keep calling itself a democracy, it should behave as one. Israel is failing its democratic values and claims when it comes to its treatment of the minorities."
+972

"Freedom of Speech"
"I better remember what I wrote in my newspaper just over six years ago, that "the degree of abuse and outright threats now being directed at anyone ... who dares to criticize Israel ... is fast reaching McCarthyite proportions.
The attempt to force the media to obey Israel's rules is ... international"."
Robert Fisk

"freedom of assembly"
"A good example of this is the Defense Minister's recent decision to outlaw the northern branch of the Islamic Movement, which is one of the most important political and social movements within the Arab minority. The Defense Minister decided to use the emergency regulations, which have remained intact since the colonial British mandate, in order to severely violate the freedom of expression and freedom of assembly of a major part of the Arab community in Israel.
Haaretz 2016

"Equality"
Ten years after report on October 2000 riots, in which 13 were killed, the state has failed to implement antidiscrimination measures that would reestablish just relations between Jews and Arabs in Israel.
Haaretz

"Minority Rights"
"Arab citizens of Israel face entrenched discrimination in all fields of life. In recent years, the prevalent attitude of hostility and mistrust towards Arab citizens has become more pronounced, with large sections of the Israeli public viewing the Arab minority as both a fifth column and a demographic threat. There are glaring socioeconomic differences between Jewish and Arab population groups, particularly with regard to land, urban planning, housing, infrastructure, economic development, and education. Over half of the poor families in Israel are Arab families, and Arab municipalities constitute the poorest municipalities within Israel."
Association for Civil Rights in Israel

RACIAL PREJUDICE

APARTHEID in ISRAEL

Pull the other on Bobad
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Sep 16 - 09:39 AM

All my points are capable of being confirmed by neutral sources which have been trotted out ad nauseam here, bobad. Now off you go to find get more pro-Israeli regime sources to "prove" me wrong! 😂

And do take as much time as you like. You won't be missed.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Sep 16 - 09:30 AM

Same old nonsensical Boo Spew. Tedious.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 03 Sep 16 - 09:12 AM

an outfit that treats its Arab citizens as third-class, runs Gaza as a huge prison, steals the most desirable territory in order to make exclusively-Jewish settlements, regards the slaughter of children and refugees as unfortunate necessities and puts its own citizens in harm's way.

All, of course condemnable lies spouted by the usual Jew haters in order to demonize a country, the only country in the Middle East whose basic law is based on equality, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, has arabic as an official language and has Arabs up to supreme court judges, soliders in the IDF, members of parliament including the ruling coalition, laws protecting LGBT, women's rights and the rights of minorities etc.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Sep 16 - 08:58 AM

"I do not believe you Jim."
To be quite honest Keith, I couldn't give two shits what you believe, but her statement (which she claims not to recall making), is included in the links you have been given.
Lets face it Keith - when and if you find it, you'll claim that she only said what she said because some "expert" or "historian" told her it was true.
"There is nothing wrong with being pro-Israel."
Didn't claim there was , but to be pro-Israeli regime atrocities and propaganda is a different matter- I'm totally with Steve on this.
She is an active part of the present campaign to deflect criticism from those atrocities and try to halt the 'Boycott Israel' campaign, which has now spread to attacking the Labour Party.
"The accusations of antisemitism are genuine"
Are they - did she tell you that - how do you know?
You and your mates have produced a list of people such as these, claiming them to be "large numbers of the Labour Party Executive, at one stage.
All have fallen by the wayside as part of this campaign, which you dismissed as my "conspiracy theory"
The more of them you produce and the more vehemently you support them, as you have supported every single act of right-wing state aggression, criminality and human rights abuses, the more likely they become.
That appears to be the sole aim of your sad existence.
Go and sell your shoddy goods to someone who will buy them - you've long blown your cover here.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Sep 16 - 08:28 AM

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being pro-Israel. I'm pro-Israel myself and I've said so here many times. There is plenty wrong with being pro-Israeli regime, an outfit that treats its Arab citizens as third-class, runs Gaza as a huge prison, steals the most desirable territory in order to make exclusively-Jewish settlements, regards the slaughter of children and refugees as unfortunate necessities and puts its own citizens in harm's way.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 16 - 07:51 AM

As I have said, her affiliation with Israel in no way justifies threats to her, but it does put into context her accusations of antisemitism.

No it does not.
The accusations of antisemitism are genuine and as a Jew she feels them personally.

Her connection with the Pro-Israel campaign

There is nothing wrong with being pro-Israel.

her Islamophobic racist rantings against the Palestinian people

I do not believe you Jim.
Give some examples.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Sep 16 - 05:12 AM

"What activity makes her experience of antisemitism and abuse irrelevant?"
Her connection wuith the Pro-Israel campaign and her Islamophobic racist rantings against the Palestinian people (which she never denied, but said she didn't recall making) are enough to put her accusations into perspective.
She is part of the BICOM campaign making her connection with Israel a political rather than a family one.
As I have said, her affiliation with Israel in no way justifies threats to her, but it does put into context her accusations of antisemitism.
Her racist attitude towards the Palestinian people, underlines that context
A REMINDER of the fact that people like Smeeth are not the only ones to be in danger from nut-cases.
Principled ones like Corbyn are equally in the firing line from people who espouse your cause.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 16 - 04:18 AM

Jim,
Ms Smeeth is also a pro-Israeli activist

Really? What activity makes her experience of antisemitism and abuse irrelevant?
Like many long serving members she is a Friend of Israel. So what? She has family there and knows like all thinking informed people that your hate filled propaganda is lies.

with links to the American Security Services.

Really? What links? Do tell us Jim where you get this shit from.

She has been described as an anti-Palestinian racist".

Really? By who?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Sep 16 - 04:03 AM

"A British Jewish Labour MP said Friday that the leader of her party must do more to tackle anti-Semitism within its ranks, a day after she was assigned special police protection due to a sinister death threat."
Wake up Bobad - that's been covered
See Ruth Smeeth's records - linked above.
The Anti terrorist squad are dealing with it as the act of a nut-case - not an example of Labour Party Antiseitism.
Both Ms Smeeth and Michael Foster are Pro-Israeli activists defending the war crimes of a terrorist State - linking this anti-Corbyn campaign to Israel's attempts to offset the Israeli goods boycott
Foster has shown himself to be a foul-mouthed bullying thug not adverse to publicly shouting down female opponents using obscene language to do so.
I can see why you admire him, but at least he does what he does using his own name, and not hiding behind a pseudonym form th safety of distance - as some people do
Takes all sorts!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 10:36 PM

A British Jewish Labour MP said Friday that the leader of her party must do more to tackle anti-Semitism within its ranks, a day after she was assigned special police protection due to a sinister death threat.

UK counter-terrorism police have launched an investigation into the supporter of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn who threatened to hang lawmaker Ruth Smeeth.

According to The Sun newspaper, which said Thursday it has seen the Facebook message the unnamed man left for the parliamentarian, the threat concludes with the sentence: "Ruth Smeeth is British and from my perspective since treason is still a capital offence in Britain, the gallows would be a fine and fitting place for this Dyke piece of Yid s*** to swing from."

Smeeth said Friday that she received more than 20,000 abusive messages from Corbyn supporters in just 12 hours, after she criticized him for not doing enough to fight anti-Semitism.

"It's vile, it's disgusting and it's done in the name of the leader of the Labour party, which makes it even worse," the MP told the BBC.

TOI

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 07:38 PM

Same old idiotic Boo Spew.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 06:48 PM

Same old idiotic Boo Spew.

Squawk!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 06:38 PM

Same old idiotic Boo Spew.

Move along, nothing to see here....

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 06:30 PM

MM

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 06:29 PM

Do try for a minute not to be such a confounded idiot, bobad.

Squawk!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 06:01 PM

Do try for a minute not to be such a confounded idiot, bobad.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 05:52 PM

I can see why Michael Foster elicits paroxysms of loathing from the likes of you as he has you and your cadre of regressive leftists described to a tee:

Corbynism: A regressive, discredited creed dressed in 'progressive' clothes.

It is a cadre of the old far left politicians, nearly all in their 60's, who have simply dressed up the old as new. Knowing the value of the Labour brand, they are attempting to steal it from a generation of those who have served Labour and its ideals for 30 years, redressing their old offer as a new form of acceptable progressive socialism, trying to hoodwink the British public into thinking that this is the way to establish an egalitarian post-Brexit Britain.

This ultimately is not about Labour, it is not about Corbyn's anti-Israel stance: it is about the shape of British society, for theirs is the politics of absolutism.

What binds them is their political enemy. Not, of course, the governing right-wing Conservatives, who have overseen a decline in living standards for working-class people not seen for a century. The "enemy" here is the majority center-right of the Labour Party, despised as "Blairites", supposedly wedded to crony capitalism, imperialism and war.

The crime that British Jews like myself have committed is that they were some of the major funders of the Labour Party under Tony Blair. So I become a metaphysical threat to their political nirvana, a wealthy, conspiring, controller of capital with imperialist (Israel/Palestine) intentions. History tells me I have heard that before. In Britain, the Jewish community watches in wonderment and with some reasoned trepidation.

Since the 1930's, the British Left has been wary of Jews in government, business and banking; this emerges from what they see as a 'witches cauldron' of capital, wealth and the United States (whom they loath), and support for Israel. Corbyn's pro-Palestinian stance has so emboldened the worst elements on the far Left that, for the first time in my lifetime, Labour is seen as the party of the anti-Semite. Many emails to my political account now begin with the salutation: "Jewish Racist Scum".

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 05:37 PM

He is an extremist right winger

According to those like you anyone who is not a Jew hating, Islamist terrorist apologist is a right wing extremist. For your information (not that it will do any good to an entrenched ideologue such as yourself) he self describes as a centre-leftist and a is major financial contributor to the Labour party.

He is a 'Friends of Israel' activist.

Gawd, to the likes of you and your "friends of Hamas and Hezbollah" party that must be cause of extreme agitation, imagine that, someone actually advocating for those filthy Jews.....der Fuhrer must be spinning in his grave.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 12:57 PM

many others are of a different opinion.

Many others deny the Holocaust, Bubo.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 12:08 PM

"Michael Foster is a millionaire showbiz agent who, as Managing Director of Content at Carlton Communications from September 1999 to February 2001, worked alongside David Cameron, the media company's Director of Corporate Affairs.[1]"
He is an extremist right winger who openly declared his hatred for Corbyn and describes him as a Nazi
He is a 'Friends of Israel' activist.
"In April 2016, Michael Foster joined the commercially-controlled media smear campaign against Jeremy Corbyn in a Daily Mail article headlined "Ignorant, Godless, Hateful - Corbyn's contempt for Jews is a disgrace":"
MICHAEL FOSTER
The death threats to Ruth Smeeth, according to Counter-terrorism police, have been made by "a fanatic who has threatened to hang a Jewish female Labour MP from the gallows."
Ms Smeeth is also a pro-Israeli activist with links to the American Security Services.
She has been described as an anti-Palestinian racist".
RUTH SMEETH and the ISRAELI LOBBY
Earlier complaints she has made about antisemitism have been investigated and found to be false.
None of this, of course, justifies her being threatened BY A FANATIC ACCORDING TO THE ANTI-TERRORIST SQUAD but it has nothing to do with antisemitism in the Labour Party
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 10:22 AM

Ah, the joys of witness. St Bernadette, Fatima, Knock...😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 09:49 AM

Hmm.........media conspiracy....vile conspiracy theories about Jewish people......sounds like he's describing some of the posters on this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 09:42 AM

Guardian yesterday,

". Smeeth told the Guardian: "I refuse to be intimidated or scared by anyone who resorts to this appalling racist and threatening abuse and they alone are responsible for their actions. But let's be clear: as leader of the official opposition and the head of my party, Jeremy Corbyn has a responsibility to lead and that means more then telling MPs to ignore abuse.

"He needs to name and shame his supporters who are perpetuating this hate and make it clear they are not welcome in our party if they have such abhorrent views."

In June the MP walked out of a press conference for the launch of an independent review into antisemitism in the Labour party that was hosted by Corbyn and its author Shami Chakrabarti. Smeeth had been accused by a Corbyn supporter of colluding with the Daily Telegraph in a row over leaflets criticising MPs opposed to his continued leadership of the party.

The MP said later: "I was verbally attacked by a Momentum activist and Jeremy Corbyn supporter who used traditional antisemitic slurs to attack me for being part of a 'media conspiracy'. It is beyond belief that someone could come to the launch of a report on antisemitism in the Labour party and espouse such vile conspiracy theories about Jewish people, which were ironically highlighted as such in Ms Chakrabarti's report, while the leader of my own party stood by and did absolutely nothing."

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 08:13 AM

'The Labour leader wears a kind face in public while using authoritarian means and his Momentum bullyboys to complete the far left's hold on Labour. And Corbynistas' real enemy target? British Jews like me,' Michael Foster writes.

Jeremy Corbyn Is a Bully, Bad for Democracy, for Britain and for British Jews

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 08:11 AM

The Huffington post describes Erdogan as "an elected dictator."
That is not "uninformed" or "a lie" but a view widely held by people who know a lot more about it that you two.

The Guardian,
"The attack on the judiciary is especially worrying in the light of Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's contempt for human rights and the rule of law."
That is a description of a dictator.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 07:46 AM

Heheh. That's right, Jim.

Neither the Guardian nor the Huffington Post has declared, unlike bobad's source, that Turkey is a dictatorship. Authoritarian and centralised, definitely. Both express concern, just like me and Jim. But Turkey has elections and a parliament. Come back and tell me that Turkey is a dictatorship when they are abolished. In the meantime, stop trying to bend the truth to suit your agenda. Just for once, acknowledge a mistake and stop being so pig-headed.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 07:02 AM

"As the country slides into a dictatorship" being the operative phrase.
Turkey has largely avoided full dictatorship because of its desire to be part of the E.U.
It certainly is a nation with extremist tendencies verging on Fascism; whether it will attain that accolade remains to be seen.
Rather a turnaround here Keith.
It seems like only yesterday when you were putting forward Turkey as one of those "decent nations" who supported Israel with its silence.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 04:43 AM

Huffington Post Headline, July 20.
"Turkey's Elected Dictator"

"Even before the failed military coup, Turkey's President Erdogan governed like a dictator who had the last word on all state matters. The botched coup was nothing but, as he put it, "a gift from God" to purge what is left of Turkey's democracy and cleanse the army and judiciary in order to ensure the total subordination of all institutions to his whims.

For Erdogan, being elected was akin to being granted a license to trample and dismantle all democratic tenets to consolidate his powers and promote his Islamic agenda."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alon-benmeir/turkeys-elected-dictator_b_11093160.html

Speigel, July22,
"Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is taking advantage of last week's failed coup to consolidate his power. As the country slides into a dictatorship, there is a lot at stake for the West. But the effects in Turkey itself promise to be far greater. By SPIEGEL Staff"
(The article you are reading originally appeared in German in issue 30/2016 (July 23rd, 2016) of DER SPIEGEL.)
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/coup-in-turkey-leads-to-erdogan-power-grab-a-1104261.html

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Sep 16 - 04:28 AM


Let me state a bald fact to you, Keith. Turkey is not a dictatorship. Now if I were you I'd drop this. You really are making a prize twat of yourself.

I just quoted the Guardian Steve.
They must be your "prize twats."
That is certainly my impression of much that they print but I quote them out of deference to you and your friends.

Guardian, July 27.
"The Guardian view on Turkey: beware an elected dictatorship"

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Sep 16 - 08:31 PM

Not so. I've told you clearly about your source, Information you could've got for yourself, but you couldn't be arsed. The main thing here is that she betrayed her unreliability by calling Turkey a dictatorship, which it isn't. A basic error of that kind means that we can't trust anything she says. I understand from her description of her background where she's coming from. I'm very glad I didn't have to grow up in Iran. But none of that is an excuse for stating in an article the untruth that Turkey is a dictatorship.