BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 06:33 PM

I think the Professor needs a nap - he's getting cranky & is likely to throw a temper tantrum, or threaten to hold his breath 'til he turns blue.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 06:20 PM

Rag,
I don't give a toss what Alibhai-Brown says she is. She is not part of this

Yes she is. You originally claimed it made me racist to describe her as Pakistani.
How stupid it made you look when I showed that she described herself as Pakistani!!
You are just desperate to smear me because you can not argue against me.

You stated, clearly, unequivocally that Sadiq Khan is a Pakistani, he is not a Pakistani he was born in London.

The only reason you mentioned his supposed race was merely because of his colour, there is no other possible reason to mention it.

There is to a non-racist. It is only YOU RAG who keeps bringing up skin colour, like a racist!
He is a British Pakistani. A Pakistani mayor of Britain's Capital City!
They are both of Pakistani heritage, grew up within Pakistani culture, and are proud of both.

Who are you to deny them that, and why do you keep on about skin colour like a racist?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 06:10 PM

Steve,
That's right, Teribus. But that isn't what Keith said, was it. He simply called him a Pakistani mayor, remember?

Yes, in the context of proving Jim wrong that London is a racist city.
He is a British Pakistani, as is Alibhai-Brown who refers to herself as Pakistani.
Alibhai-Brown describes herself as Pakistani, and she was born in Uganda!
They are both of Pakistani heritage, grew up within Pakistani culture, and are proud of both.
Who are you to deny them that?

The two people you non-randomly plucked out to make some long-lost point or other are indeed the kind of apologists for the Israeli regime

I quoted many Labour worthies appalled by Labour antisemitism.
Sadiq Khan for instance, and the "entire NEC." "Israel apologists?"

You asserted that two were "Israel apologists, but as usual you did not substantiate it.
If they were, why does that debar them from having views on Labour antisemitism, as you also assert.

your discredited wider definition of antisemitism.

You mean the definition provided by the European Parliament Working Group on Antisemitism, which still appears on its website and which has been adopted even beyond EU.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 11:28 AM

I don't give a toss what Alibhai-Brown says she is. She is not part of this. If she wants people to tell people she is from Planet Zog I really don't care.

You stated, clearly, unequivocally that Sadiq Khan is a Pakistani, he is not a Pakistani he was born in London.

By stating, as you did, that the Mayor of London was a Pakistani you were indicating for all to see your innate racism, as you have done so previously.

The only reason you mentioned his supposed race was merely because of his colour, there is no other possible reason to mention it.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 11:21 AM

"Steve, you made two assertions.
That two prominent Labour worthies were "apologists for Israel" and that that debarred them from having any credible view on antisemitism.

Will you for once substantiate your wild assertions, as repeatedly asked."

The two people you non-randomly plucked out to make some long-lost point or other are indeed the kind of apologists for the Israeli regime (note the wording, please, and note how your quote in speech marks is different - a typical piece of dishonesty) that adhere to your discredited wider definition of antisemitism. Not a wild assertion. Bleedin' obvious to all but you. Secondly, nowhere have I said that anyone of any persuasion is debarred from commenting, whether they're Jews, not Jews, Labour, Tory or even you. Finally, once you've decided in that festering and puerile brainbox of yours that my assertions are "wild," well there isn't much point in my trying to counter your decision, is there? Well I just have done, of course. I must be mad. Now off you go and try to think up some more silly games. You're nothing if not bloody entertaining.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 11:06 AM

"..his ethnicity is Asian British Pakistani."

That's right, Teribus. But that isn't what Keith said, was it. He simply called him a Pakistani mayor, remember?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 11:00 AM

Alibhai-Brown describes herself as Pakistani, and she was born in Uganda!
They are both of Pakistani heritage, grew up within Pakistani culture, and are proud of both.

Who are you to deny them that, and why do you keep on about skin colour like a racist?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 10:50 AM

He is NOT Pakistani, can you not understand that someone born in London is NOT Pakistani.

Sheeesh !!

I was going to say stop digging but you are incapable of stopping, so carry on professor it only serves to compound your racist views.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 10:45 AM

Rag,
the only reason he could have come to that conclusion was the colour of the mans skin

Only to someone obsessed with skin colour.
I never considered it.
You alone have mentioned it, and repeatedly.

he describes himself as a LONDONER

He is a Londoner.
We are all many things.
The context was that Jim claimed London was a deeply racist city, so I pointed out that they had just elected a Pakistani Mayor.
He is a British Pakistani, as is Alibhai-Brown who refers to herself as Pakistani.

Now, you posted that failing to recognise a racist statement indicates racism, but if it is an antisemitic statement, "that is a different argument."
Why are you refusing to explain how such double standards are not antisemitic?

Steve, you made two assertions.
That two prominent Labour worthies were "apologists for Israel" and that that debarred them from having any credible view on antisemitism.

Will you for once substantiate your wild assertions, as repeatedly asked.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 10:41 AM

My point Raggy, whether you like it or not, or whether you agree with it or not, is that Sadiq Khan as far as the demographics that describe the population of London go is not listed as a "Londoner" - the population of London are all Londoners FFS - his ethnicity is Asian British Pakistani.

Were something happen to Mayor Khan and the Police had to search for him he would be described as an IC4 Male (IC = Identification Code: 4 = Asian). Officers would not be sent looking for a "Londoner".

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 08:22 AM

And your point is?

The professor said the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, was a Pakistani, the only reason he could have come to that conclusion was the colour of the mans skin as Sadiq Khan describes himself as a Londoner.

It was a clear case of racism, judging a man merely by his appearance.

It was racism when he first posted it and it is still racism now. The only difference is he's managed to embroil you into the discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 08:07 AM

Now oddly enough the only people on this forum who would come out with "pink giraffes" & "cherry red blue whales" would be the likes of Jim Carroll and yourself Raggy - after all you have come out with equally idiotic statements.

London Demographics

Now it may come as a great shock to most but the ethnic categories listed are fairly standard throughout the world for demographic surveys in multi-cultural societies and cities and guess what Neither myself or Keith A of Hertford played any part in the creation of those categories. Perhaps Raggy you should write to those who undertake these surveys and tell them that they are "racist".

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 06:47 AM

Colonel Richard Kemp (Fmr Commander of British Armed Forces, Afghanistan) speaks to J-TV's Alan Mendoza about the morality of the IDF, the rising tide of anti-Israel sentiment in the West and his explanations for this phenomenon.

YouTube

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 05:15 AM

Oh my word how original.

As expected you have come to defend to indefensible.

Like I posted yesterday if the professor said that all giraffes were pink and blue whales were cherry red you would blindly support him.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 04:56 AM

If you were running for the office of mayor of London against the son of a billionaire who went to Eton I dare say that touting your Tooting birthplace would be a good start in a city that is normally considered to be a Labour stronghold.

If Sadiq Khan was to be "pigeonholed" by anyone doing a demographic survey of London's population he would be described in the category - Asian British: Pakistani - to describe him thus is not "racist" it is merely accurate ....... just saying like.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 04:00 AM

"Khan is a member of the british Pakistani community, so he is a Pakistani Mayor"

As you can't seem to grasp professor Sadiq Khan is NOT Pakistani, he describes himself as a LONDONER which he has every right to do as that is where he was born, in TOOTING. He describes his wife and children as Londoners.

The only person to my knowledge who says he is Pakistani is yourself. Do you know whether he has even visited Pakistan. (oh, allowing for Teribus, because he is sure to back you up)

To refer to someone as Pakistani when they were born in London is racist, he is NOT Pakistani he is a Londoner.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 03:39 AM

Ah, he's digging again.

Carry On Professor !!!!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 03:04 AM

steve,
And it's fine to call black babies piccaninnies.

No. It is considered racist in USA and has become un-PC here.
Elsewhere it seems to be OK.

Ih ave never defended anyone's racism and I challenge and defy you Steve to show that I have.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 02:58 AM

Rag,
..... "culturally implanted Asians" who be a good one ......... the "Pakistani" mayor would be a good follow up .....

I made no claim about anyone's culture.
I just said that I believed what all those people from that culture were saying.
Khan is a member of the british Pakistani community, so he is a Pakistani Mayor.

No racism in that Rag.

Now, will you explain your double standards for antisemitism and other forms of racism. Why is it "a different argument?"

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 08:08 PM

I love you too Greg.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 07:59 PM

Same old BooSpew. Predictable & Boring.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 07:24 PM

Farage and Netanyahu, two of the biggest racists on the planet

They can't hold a candle to Corbyn though.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 07:12 PM

There are probably be others if I cared to look, or more importantly, if I thought you were worth the effort.

As it is I don't and you aren't.


For someone who says he's not worth the effort you certainly put an inordinate amount of time and ad hominem posts into him............just sayin'.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 07:12 PM

And it's fine to call black babies piccaninnies. Don't forget that one, Raggytash. Oh, and his defence of scum such as Farage and Netanyahu, two of the biggest racists on the planet. Always worth a mention.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 05:56 PM

Dear professor ............. where to start ......... "culturally implanted Asians" who be a good one ......... the "Pakistani" mayor would be a good follow up ..........



There are probably be others if I cared to look, or more importantly, if I thought you were worth the effort.


As it is I don't and you aren't.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 05:36 PM

But Greg F. if you can't even answer the questions put to you by three year olds, how on earth do you think you'd cope with adults?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 04:55 PM

Greg F. has gone a bit quiet hasn't he - maybe he's looking for the Hamas map

Not at all, T-Bird. I'm just tired of playing with three-year-olds. Rather spend my time with adults.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 03:59 PM

Cherri, if the professor posted that all giraffes are pink and that blue whales were cherry red you would support him.

It could be that both of you grew up and behaved like adults.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 12:55 PM

Ah now come along Ragged:

Steve Shaw - 08 Aug 16 - 07:08 PM

"Now let's see. You make an accusation ............. The onus is squarely on your shoulders to prove your claim, not on us to disprove what you say. You started it, so let's see you seeing this through."

Of course you are not going to "see anything through" are you Raggy?

Greg F. has gone a bit quiet hasn't he - maybe he's looking for the Hamas map that shows what they would recognise as the State of Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 12:47 PM

Rag,

The same applies if you can find ONE antisemitic statement from me.

You psted that failing to recognise a racist statement indicates racism, but if it is an antisemitic statement, "that is a different argument."

Such double standards would appear to be antisemitic.
If you meant something different, please explain as I have repeatedly asked you to do.


Furthermore if you can find ONE racist statement from me in all the years I have been on this site I will buy you a pint.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 12:43 PM

Rag, you posted something that appears to be antisemitic.
If it is not, tell us why.
We are entitled to such an explanation, and will draw our own conclusions if none is forthcoming.

That is not just me, but everyone who read what you posted.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 12:43 PM

Furthermore if you can find ONE racist statement from me in all the years I have been on this site I will buy you a pint.

The same applies if you can find ONE antisemitic statement from me.

That should keep you busy.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 12:35 PM

You are ENTITLED to fuck all.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 11:26 AM

Ah so you have read it Greg F., you've obviously just incapable of understanding what it says.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 11:14 AM

Rag,
remember the person who said that the mayor of London was a Pakistani merely because of his skin colour.

No I don't, because no-one has.
Like Alibhai-Brown he was born into that community.
Had he been white and adopted it would be the same.
No-one mentioned "skin colour" EXCEPT YOU RAG!
You have a racist's obsession with it.

Now, will you PLEASE explain why failing to recognise a racist statement indicates racism, but if it is an antisemitic statement, "that is a different argument."

Such double standard are themselves antisemitic Rag.
We are entitled to an explanation.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 10:32 AM

Yup, I've read it T-zer. Perhaps you could show ME.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 10:00 AM

Greg F. - 15 Aug 16 - 09:11 AM

I take it that you haven't read the Hamas Charter then Greg F.

Or perhaps if you believe the "We are fighting for a Two-State solution" bullshit you could show me what Hamas see as the borders of this Two-State solution.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 09:26 AM

Only one racist on this thread .............


.... remember the person who said that the mayor of London was a Pakistani merely because of his skin colour.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 09:11 AM

Hamas' goal is the genocide of Jews

Wrong. AND it doesn't answer the question.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 14 Aug 16 - 09:50 PM

the Irgun weren't terrorists like your favorite nemesis Hamas

Irgun's goal was a Jewish state, Hamas' goal is the genocide of Jews.............try again.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Aug 16 - 09:28 PM

Israel's fight for liberation

So Bubo, the Irgun weren't terrorists like your favorite nemesis Hamas, then?

Interesting. And revealing - right back atcha.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 14 Aug 16 - 09:18 PM

Nine million murdered in the Russian revolution vs. questionably a couple hundred in Israel's fight for liberation - no difference there, eh Greg, just another of your false equivalencies to try and smear the Jews. Keep it up, you give yourself away.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Aug 16 - 08:14 PM

Re the King David Hotel, a warning was sent which was ignored.

Those folks were dead just the same, Bubo.

The other one I know nothing about and can't be arsed to look it up.

Of course you don't and of course you can't! It would contradict your usual line of bullshit, and you can't have that, can you?

Jackass.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 14 Aug 16 - 07:06 PM

Re the King David Hotel, a warning was sent which was ignored. The other one I know nothing about and can't be arsed to look it up.

What I do know is that you and your ilk are big supporters of wars of liberation except when when those fighting for their liberation are Jews.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Aug 16 - 06:48 PM

the Bolshevik thugs who murdered my wife's grandparents

Were they anything like the Irgun thugs that bombed the King David Hotel in Jerusalem where 91 people of various nationalities were killed and who carried out the Deir Yassin massacre where at least 107 Palestinians were killed?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Aug 16 - 06:32 PM

"Back to the hall the Urchin ran;

Took in a darkling nook his post,

And grinn'd, and mutter'd, "Lost! lost! lost!"

Sir Walter Scott, "The Lay of the Last Minstrel" - roughly where Labour is now.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 14 Aug 16 - 05:20 PM

Hmm, shades of the Bolshevik thugs who murdered my wife's grandparents:

A brand of politics alien to this country, defined and delivered by a divisive, aggressive holier-than-thou cadre of hard-Left socialists with no real policies to speak of, no defined social and economic objectives, just a call for the committed to take this journey with them down the Yellow Brick Road.

In the midst of this, something is rotten. You are either with them, or you are labelled as being against them and so excluded, briefed against, often threatened and intimidated.

If you are like me, a Jewish donor to Labour, you are smeared as a Blairite conspirator, plotting to falsely use the accusation of anti-Semitism to damage the Left.

It matters not whether you are Angela Eagle with a brick through a window, Stella Creasy with a mob outside her constituency office, or Labour general secretary Iain McNicol with a letter threatening court action unless he secured victory for Corbyn at an NEC vote.

Corbyn and his leadership team have no respect for others and worse, no respect for the rule of law.

They clearly have no moral compass, and in Corbyn they have a leader who wants to abolish the House of Lords yet is happy to confer and defend the granting of a peerage on Shami Chakrabarti, whose detailed report into anti-Semitism in the Labour Party was anything but independent.

.................................................................................................................................................

Oppose them as a Jewish donor and the riposte from Seumas Milne, Corbyn's mouthpiece, is that you are part of a Blairite, Right-wing 'conspiracy' (the ancient racist rhetoric is that Jews don't act alone, the malevolent Jew always conspires) to destabilise the democratically and legitimately elected leader.




'Why I despise Jeremy Corbyn and his Nazi stormtroopers'   By Michael Foster, Labour Party donor and former parliamentary candidate.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Aug 16 - 03:46 PM

Racism and antisemitism are not "petty" Rag, except to a racist.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Aug 16 - 01:36 PM

No professor, I will not engage in your puerile pettiness. I could suggest that you grow up


............... fat chance of that.



The moving writes and then moves on.............


But carry on being a racist ..........

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Aug 16 - 11:36 AM

You'd do well to consider this quote.

You'd do well to answer the question put to you, but you can't.


Rag, will you PLEASE explain why failing to recognise a racist statement indicates racism, but if it is an antisemitic statement, "that is a different argument."

Such double standard are themselves antisemitic Rag.
We are entitled to an explanation.