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BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II

Keith A of Hertford 15 Jul 17 - 12:42 PM
Jim Carroll 15 Jul 17 - 01:14 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Jul 17 - 01:56 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Jul 17 - 01:57 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Jul 17 - 02:48 PM
Raggytash 15 Jul 17 - 04:31 PM
Jim Carroll 15 Jul 17 - 04:56 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Jul 17 - 04:58 PM
Dave the Gnome 16 Jul 17 - 03:09 AM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Jul 17 - 07:51 AM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Jul 17 - 07:56 AM
Raggytash 16 Jul 17 - 08:03 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Jul 17 - 08:12 AM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Jul 17 - 10:27 AM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Jul 17 - 10:33 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Jul 17 - 11:17 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Jul 17 - 11:32 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Jul 17 - 12:08 PM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Jul 17 - 12:12 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Jul 17 - 12:22 PM
Jim Carroll 16 Jul 17 - 01:04 PM
Dave the Gnome 16 Jul 17 - 01:43 PM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Jul 17 - 03:43 PM
Dave the Gnome 16 Jul 17 - 04:07 PM
Dave the Gnome 16 Jul 17 - 04:10 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Jul 17 - 05:24 PM
Jim Carroll 16 Jul 17 - 07:40 PM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Jul 17 - 04:26 AM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Jul 17 - 04:46 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Jul 17 - 04:58 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Jul 17 - 05:35 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Jul 17 - 05:48 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Jul 17 - 06:16 AM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Jul 17 - 06:52 AM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Jul 17 - 06:59 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Jul 17 - 07:05 AM
Raggytash 17 Jul 17 - 07:05 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Jul 17 - 07:15 AM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Jul 17 - 07:42 AM
bobad 17 Jul 17 - 07:48 AM
Raggytash 17 Jul 17 - 07:55 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Jul 17 - 08:56 AM
Dave the Gnome 17 Jul 17 - 09:05 AM
Greg F. 17 Jul 17 - 09:12 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Jul 17 - 09:43 AM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Jul 17 - 10:20 AM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Jul 17 - 10:28 AM
Greg F. 17 Jul 17 - 11:27 AM
Jim Carroll 17 Jul 17 - 11:32 AM
Keith A of Hertford 17 Jul 17 - 11:36 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 12:42 PM

Steve,
So let's see. "Relocating Israel..." means the same as "transporting Jews out" now, does it?
Mad as a box o' frogs...


Who is?
That is what she said.
She did not mean the actual terrain!
She did not mean the Palestinian residents.
That only leaves the Jews!
That is why she admitted it was anti-Semitic.

"Labour MP Naz Shah has said the comments which saw her suspended from the party were anti-Semitic.
Ms Shah apologised in April for online posts, including one suggesting Israel should be moved to the United States."

"relocating Israel would be a "solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict", and that it would allow Palestinians to "get their life and their land back". "

"Labour MP Naz Shah admits to the Guido Fawkes blog she wrote a Facebook post arguing for Israel's population to be "transported" out of the Middle East to America."

So not mad at all Steve.
She said exactly what I said she did.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 01:14 PM

I think all accusations of Labour antisemitism have been made null and void by Israel's own support of Hungarian antisemitic propaganda
Jim Carroll

The Times Tuesday, July 11th
ISRAEL BACKS HUNGARY'S 'ANTISEMITIC' POSTER AGAINST SOROS AFTER U-TURN
ISRAEL
Gregg Carlstrom Tel Aviv

Binyamin Netanyahu has overruled his ambassador and backed the right-wing Hungarian government's campaign against the Jewish billionaire George Soros.
Official posters denouncing Mr Soros have been described by Hungary's main Jewish organisation as antisemitic. Yossi Amrani, Israel's ambassador in Budapest, urged Viktor Orban, the prime minister, to remove them.
"Beyond political criticism of a certain person, the campaign not only evokes sad memories but al¬so sows hatred and fear," Mr Amrani said in a statement.
His bosses in Israel initially en¬dorsed the call, but later issued a clarification, saying that the Hungarian-born financier threatened democracy by funding charities critical of Mr Netanyahu.
Mr Orban's government has repeatedly attacked Mr Soros and is trying to close down a liberal university that he set up and funded. It has accused him of trying to flood Europe with immigrants.
It has paid for billboards across the country denouncing Mr Soros as a threat to national security. "Let's not allow Soros to have the last laugh," reads one, next to a photo of the smiling banker. The head of Hungary's Jewish community said that the billboards were antisemitic, while Human
Rights Watch compared them to Nazi propaganda, which often featured "the laughing Jew".
Mr Orban wrote a letter to Jewish leaders last week saying: "My duty is to defend our homeland and citizens."
Israel is normally quick to condemn antisemitism, but this time the government distanced itself from the ambassador's comments. "In no way was the statement meant to delegitimise criticism of George Soros, who continuously undermines Israel's democratically elected govern¬ments by funding organisations that defame the Jewish state," Emmanuel Nachson, a spokesman for the foreign ministry, said.
Mr Netanyahu has not appointed a foreign minister and holds the post himself. He is scheduled to meet Mr Orban in Hungary next week.
Israel and Hungary have both passed legislation that seeks to limit the influence of liberal charities such as those Mr Soros funds.
Last month Mr Orban praised Miklos Horthy, a Second World War-era Hungarian leader, as an "exceptional statesman". Admiral Horthy was a Nazi ally who passed a series of anti-Jewish laws.
Again, Mr Amrani protested, this time on Hungarian television, and several leading Israeli politicians urged Mr Netanyahu to cancel his visit. But the foreign ministry said it was satisfied with Hungary's clarification—that Mr Orban was only praising the "positive periods" in his predecessor's history, not the "negative periods".
Israel used to follow local Jewish communities in deciding whether to meet parties with dubious pasts. It kept its distance from the National Front in France because Jewish leaders shunned the group.
But Mr Netanyahu and his government have sought to build ties with far-right factions across Europe, viewing them as useful diplomatic allies.
Last year, the head of Austria's Freedom Party spent a week in Israel on an official visit. The Israeli foreign ministry officially boycotts the party, which was founded in 1956 by former Nazis.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 01:56 PM

Point one. She did not say what you say she said. She referred to the relocation of Israel, not the transportation of Jews, as you said she did. You lied. You said what you wanted her to have said, just as you did with Wheatcroft with your vulgar and fraudulent. It's what you do.

Point two. The map in question was a map of the US with a lump in the middle of it the same size and shape as Israel. Funny that. That isn't a map of transported Jews. That is a map of a relocated Israel. It is a map of an impossible, whimsical situation. It is a joke. Personally I think it's a very unfunny joke in execrable bad taste. It was a map visualised by a Jewish man who was directly affected by the Holocaust, and he said it was a joke. It was a wrong joke to make in my view. But a joke it was. As the map depicted a ridiculously impossible situation, it was a joke map. The suggestion was not a serious suggestion as to what should happen. Naz Shah was foolish to reproduce it, though we could remember that she was a Muslim watching the vicious attacks on Gaza at the time she reproduced it. Not an excuse, a context.

Get real, Keith. It's over. You have a sick obsession with "Labour antisemitism," a distinctly rare beast, while you ignore the injustices meted out by your own side, including the Israeli regime and the Tories. You defended Johnson calling black children piccaninnies. Yiu sided with the xenophobic Farage in the referendum campaign. Yiu defend the vicious IDF attacks on Lebanon and Gaza. You deny the refugee camp massacres.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 01:57 PM

Oops, that went before I'd finished checking it. Points made, however.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 02:48 PM

Oh, and by the way, Keith, the joke map had the occupied West Bank in it. So much for "transporting Jews," eh? 😂


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 04:31 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 11:35 AM

"Rag,"Hmm I don't think I have EVER posted on here about Naz Shah specifically backing Steve.Hmm I don't think that anyone EVER suggested you did!"

Previously you posted "Steve claimed that to be a lie, and you all backed him"

I repeat I have never backed Steve on anything relevant to Naz Shah.

I will copy and paste another post by yourself:

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 05:49 AM

"Rag, so no-one claimed anything "about Naz Shah specifically backing Steve."That was just nonsense, as I said.I did suggest that you and Dave backed Steve.

IF YOU SAY YOU DO NOT I WILL APOLOGISE"


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 04:56 PM

No comment Keith
So much for your concern for the Jewish People
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 04:58 PM

Its always nice to have backing, but on this occasion I can stand alone if I have to. All anyone has to do is to revisit Shah's Facebook post. It's there for all to see. This is what Keith said::

"Her statements were anti-Semitic in context, advocating the transportation of the Jews out of Israel."

She made no such statement. The above is Keith's interpretation of what he wanted her to have said. In other words, he lied. Go on, have a look. It's simple. She didn't say what Keith said she said. I'm not defending her. She was an idiot. An embarrassment. But all that has passed. She apologised and she has just doubled her majority. Perhaps Keith should leave leafy Hertford for a day or two and go up to ask the people of Bradford what they think. He might learn a few swear words. But we can't have a sensible discussion with Keith, ever, because he is pathologically determined to misrepresent what people say in order to fit his prejudices.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 03:09 AM

...and my point in raising it, which I am glad I did regardless of how often Keith says he bets I am not (twice up to now) was to compare the Naz Shah incident to Anne Marie Morris. The former made a stupid comment and was suspended. The latter made a stupid comment and was suspended. Neither had racist intentions but while that is no excuse, Keith is happy to accept that excuse from Morris. The biggest difference is that she is a Tory MP while Shah is Labour. MPs should be more careful. Mind you, Shah was not an MP or even in the public eye when she made her stupid remarks but they do fit in quite well with the agenda of trying to discredit the Labour party.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 07:51 AM

Steve, I do not lie.
She referred to the relocation of Israel, not the transportation of Jews, as you said she did. You lied.

Not true. She advocated the removal of the population but not the Arabs.
That would complete the cleansing of Jews from the whole middle East.
(Including West Bank, hence its inclusion)
That is what you are defending.

Steve,
This is what Keith said::
"Her statements were anti-Semitic in context, advocating the transportation of the Jews out of Israel."
She made no such statement.

YES SHE DID!!
Guardian, "Labour MP Naz Shah admits to the Guido Fawkes blog she wrote a Facebook post arguing for Israel's population to be "transported" out of the Middle East to America."

Dave, you raised a false comparison.
Morris made an entirely innocuous statement but used an offensive word.
Shah used no offensive words but made anti-Semitic statements.

Rag,
Previously you posted "Steve claimed that to be a lie, and you all backed him"

If you state that you do not back Steve, I will gladly apologise to you.

Jim, we know she did not draw the maps, but what she said on the subject was racist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 07:56 AM

Keith is happy to accept that excuse from Morris.
The biggest difference is that she is a Tory MP while Shah is Labour


Not true Dave! I said Tory Morris should be sacked. Go look before posting such shit!
I was happy to accept the apology and retraction from (Labour)Shah.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 08:03 AM

"I was happy to accept the apology and retraction from (Labour)Shah."

If that is the case why do you keep rabbiting on about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 08:12 AM

"Not true. She advocated the removal of the population but not the Arabs."

Nope. She didn't say that either. We can read verbatim what she said. We really don't need your hyper-interpretations.

"That is what you are defending."

When have I said I'm defending her? I've called her stupid and said that there is no excuse.

Come along, Keith, let's see what other fantasies you can manufacture. Though I doubt whether anyone else in the country is bothered about Naz Shah and the map any more. Dead in the water. Belly up, it is, that one. She did well in June didn't she? Do you reckon that means that Bradford West is full of antisemites? You're the last man standing fighting this one, aren't you? Meanwhile you have a few awkward questions about racism emanating from your own side. Let's start with the use of "nigger" and "piccaninny," shall we?


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 10:27 AM

Rag,
If that is the case why do you keep rabbiting on about it.

I did not bring it up Rag.
I have no problem with her, only with people who deny the anti-Semitism she freely admits to and accepted by all Parties including Labour, and reported on by reputable outlets like the Guardian and BBC.

Steve,
They are not my "hyper-interpretations."

Guardian,
"Labour MP Naz Shah admits to the Guido Fawkes blog she wrote a Facebook post arguing for Israel's population to be "transported" out of the Middle East to America.
"BBC,
"The graphic said relocating Israel would be a "solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict", and that it would allow Palestinians to "get their life and their land back". "

So she did not want the Arabs "transported," just the Jews.
Blatant anti-Semitic racism.
That is what you are defending.

When have I said I'm defending her?

I did not say that. I said you defended her views, saying they were not anti-Semitic.
They were, and it is not just us telling you that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 10:33 AM

She did well in June didn't she? Do you reckon that means that Bradford West is full of antisemites?

Her anti-Semitism was born of ignorance. She knows better now.
She no-longer makes anti-Semitic statements.
As I have said, I admire what she has done. I am glad that she did well.

She was subject to some anti-Semitic abuse herself sadly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 11:17 AM

"Jim, we know she did not draw the maps, but what she said on the subject was racist."
NO IT WAS NOT KEITH - SHE REPATED A JOKE BY A RESPRCTED JEW AND HE POINTED OUT THAT FACT
Are you so antisemitic as to dismiss what he said - of course you are
You have been asked to condemn Israel's open support of antisemitic propaganda and still you refuse
Your agenda here is obvious, **** the Jews - lets give the Labour Party a kicking and ignore Israeli antisemitism in support of a fascist politician
You couldn't have made yourself more plain - at least your mask's off now
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 11:32 AM

Find another bone to gnaw, Keith. This is becoming positively comedic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 12:08 PM

Nah
Let him go on
He's proved conclusively that he has no interest whatever in Antisemitism - just a handy stick to beat the Labour Party
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 12:12 PM

It is "comedic" how you people deny the truth put in front of you.

Guardian,
"Labour MP Naz Shah admits to the Guido Fawkes blog she wrote a Facebook post arguing for Israel's population to be "transported" out of the Middle East to America.
"BBC,
"The graphic said relocating Israel would be a "solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict", and that it would allow Palestinians to "get their life and their land back". "

Read it.
She wanted the Jewish population "transported" out of the Middle East.
Where is the comedy Steve?
Where is the "joke" Jim.

Blatant racism against Jews and you pretend it is OK.
To you it clearly is OK.
You show yourselves for what you are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 12:22 PM

Give over, Keith. Why on earth would anyone need your version of the "truth" when we can go back to the actual map and see the whole text (that wasn't her doing in any case, as you've been told several times: perhaps you think that Norman Finkelstein is just one o' them thar self-hating Jews, eh, Keith?). You're right, Jim. Let him carry on. Not quite as much fun as the mixed doubles though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 01:04 PM

" Israel's population to be "transported" "#She didn't write it - she quoted Finklestein - the press used his maps
You are neither interested in the truth and you are using the Jewish People as a club to beat the Labour Party
I would say this is as antisemitic as you could possibly get
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 01:43 PM

Dave, you raised a false comparison.

Bollocks. That is your opinion. Mine, and that of many others, is that they both made prats of themselves. Is that true or not? You just seem to be following their lead.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 03:43 PM

Steve,
Why on earth would anyone need your version of the "truth"

Not my version.
I just quoted BBC and Guardian. I can quote more.
I can quote, but you can't because your version has no basis in actual fact.

Or, will you produce something that actually supports you?
Ha ha ha ha!

Jim,
Israel's population to be "transported" "#She didn't write it

She did. The Guardian quoted her. I gave you the quote and link.

Dave,
Mine, and that of many others, is that they both made prats of themselves. Is that true or not?

Fact, Morris used an offensive word in an otherwise uncontroversial statement. She did make a prat of herself.
Fact, Shah made anti-Semitic statements. That is worse than just making a prat of herself, in my opinion.
She would agree I think.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 04:07 PM

They both made prats of themselves. That is a fact. How do you measure how much of prat each one was? Hertford pratometer? Takes one to know one I suppose.

At least you said it was only your opinion, which is good, but then blew it by suggesting that you think Naz Shah would agree with you.

In your dreams.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 04:10 PM

Oh, and Shah made a prat of herself before she became an MP and was not exactly in the position of responsibility that Morris was.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 05:24 PM

"Not my version.
I just quoted BBC and Guardian. I can quote more.
I can quote, but you can't because your version has no basis in actual fact."

Why quote anybody else? Why not go back to the only thing that matters, the Finkelstein map, complete with text? Who cares what you think, Keith? We have the original! We had the Wheatcroft original! You can't stand originals can you, Keith? Originals never quite align with your agenda, do they, Keith? Always has to be Keith's "superior" take on the original! You're weird, Keith!


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 07:40 PM

Whike you continue to support Israeli antisemitism as you are Keith you have no case
Why should we believe an antisemite like you
A reminder, in case you missed it the first half dozen times

The Times Tuesday, July 11th
ISRAEL BACKS HUNGARY'S 'ANTISEMITIC' POSTER AGAINST SOROS AFTER U-TURN
ISRAEL
Gregg Carlstrom Tel Aviv

Binyamin Netanyahu has overruled his ambassador and backed the right-wing Hungarian government's campaign against the Jewish billionaire George Soros.
Official posters denouncing Mr Soros have been described by Hungary's main Jewish organisation as antisemitic. Yossi Amrani, Israel's ambassador in Budapest, urged Viktor Orban, the prime minister, to remove them.
"Beyond political criticism of a certain person, the campaign not only evokes sad memories but al¬so sows hatred and fear," Mr Amrani said in a statement.
His bosses in Israel initially en¬dorsed the call, but later issued a clarification, saying that the Hungarian-born financier threatened democracy by funding charities critical of Mr Netanyahu.
Mr Orban's government has repeatedly attacked Mr Soros and is trying to close down a liberal university that he set up and funded. It has accused him of trying to flood Europe with immigrants.
It has paid for billboards across the country denouncing Mr Soros as a threat to national security. "Let's not allow Soros to have the last laugh," reads one, next to a photo of the smiling banker. The head of Hungary's Jewish community said that the billboards were antisemitic, while Human
Rights Watch compared them to Nazi propaganda, which often featured "the laughing Jew".
Mr Orban wrote a letter to Jewish leaders last week saying: "My duty is to defend our homeland and citizens."
Israel is normally quick to condemn antisemitism, but this time the government distanced itself from the ambassador's comments. "In no way was the statement meant to delegitimise criticism of George Soros, who continuously undermines Israel's democratically elected govern¬ments by funding organisations that defame the Jewish state," Emmanuel Nachson, a spokesman for the foreign ministry, said.
Mr Netanyahu has not appointed a foreign minister and holds the post himself. He is scheduled to meet Mr Orban in Hungary next week.
Israel and Hungary have both passed legislation that seeks to limit the influence of liberal charities such as those Mr Soros funds.
Last month Mr Orban praised Miklos Horthy, a Second World War-era Hungarian leader, as an "exceptional statesman". Admiral Horthy was a Nazi ally who passed a series of anti-Jewish laws.
Again, Mr Amrani protested, this time on Hungarian television, and several leading Israeli politicians urged Mr Netanyahu to cancel his visit. But the foreign ministry said it was satisfied with Hungary's clarification—that Mr Orban was only praising the "positive periods" in his predecessor's history, not the "negative periods".
Israel used to follow local Jewish communities in deciding whether to meet parties with dubious pasts. It kept its distance from the National Front in France because Jewish leaders shunned the group.
But Mr Netanyahu and his government have sought to build ties with far-right factions across Europe, viewing them as useful diplomatic allies.
Last year, the head of Austria's Freedom Party spent a week in Israel on an official visit. The Israeli foreign ministry officially boycotts the party, which was founded in 1956 by former Nazis.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 04:26 AM

Whike you continue to support Israeli antisemitism as you are Keith you have no case

If I have ever supported any kind of racism, QUOTE ME DOING IT, LIAR!

Why should we believe an antisemite like you


I do not ask you to believe me, just all those liars (!) at the BBC and the Guardian, The Labour Party and every other party, and Shah herself.

It is laughable that you claim to be right and all of them wrong or lying.
Sadly that is your whole case, so you lose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 04:46 AM

Dave,
blew it by suggesting that you think Naz Shah would agree with you.
In your dreams.


Just my opinion, but based on what she has now said about her statements.
She full confesses that they were blatantly anti-Semitic, which is indeed much worse than just making a prat of yourself.

Perhaps you do not regard anti-Semitism as being that serious, but she does.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 04:58 AM

Yes Keith, just your opinion. Again. Worth very little in most places and even less on here. In my opinion :-)

Nice to see you using the same type of weasel words that the Daily Heil use. Perhaps you do etc etc I would stop using that type of insidious smear if I was you. I can play that game as well. Perhaps it is true that the vicar throws cream cakes at you...

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 05:35 AM

Did she really say BLATANTLY antisemitic? Or is this yet another example of your hyper-interpretational skills? 😂😂😂


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 05:48 AM

I think we have had enough of this anti BDS crap Keith
The attacks on Labour were first started by Friends of Israel in response to the threat of a boycott for their illegal and inhuman behaviour
Your "massive problem" within the Labour Party has now dwindled to one member quoting a respected Jewish intellectual
Enough really is enough - the Israeli influence on this forum has reached the point where it could very well destroy it
A couple of Pro-Israeli trolls have just brought about the collapse of yet another thread by with their hate posts of "Jew Hater" - sadly it involved someone I once very much respected who also accused me of hating Jews and demanded I paid a donatation to an organisation which has been entered in Wiki as:
"a Jewish far-right religious-political organization in the United States, whose stated goal is to "protect Jews from antisemitism by whatever means necessary".[1] While the group asserts that it "unequivocally condemns terrorism" and states that it has a "strict no-tolerance policy against terrorism and other felonious acts",[2] it was classified as "a right wing extremist group" by the FBI in 2001 and is considered a radical organization by the Southern Poverty Law Center.[3][4] According to the FBI, the JDL has been involved in plotting and executing acts of terrorism within the United States.[3][5]"
This argument should have been over long ago when these accusations were proven to be directly linked to the Israeli anti-BDS campaign - it has no foundation and even if it was shown that Shah was not just repeating a joke, she does not represent the Labour Party, nor does she pose a threat in any way shape or form.
You have no interest in antisemitism - you never have had.
You are now endorsing antisemitism yourself by refusing to comment on Israel's support for Hungarian Antisemitism which has direct historical links to the Nazis.
It's time that all right-wing Israeli influence was exorcised from these discussions - that is what you are engaging in by flogging this long-dead dead horse
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 06:16 AM

Closed or deleted threads are not really anything I bother about much, but I note that Joe Offer took the opportunity to have an extended last word in the Civil War thread that was extremely critical of Jim and which made bitter accusations that are safely beyond the reach of responses. Not my gig this, but that seems entirely wrong to me. I think his post should be deleted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 06:52 AM

Dave,
Yes Keith, just your opinion. Again. Worth very little in most places and even less on here. In my opinion

I back my opinion with hard evidence and quoting Shah herself.
Yours appear to be just baseless whims.

Nice to see you using the same type of weasel words that the Daily Heil use.

I do not, and I never quote the Mail either.

Steve,
Did she really say BLATANTLY antisemitic? Or is this yet another example of your hyper-interpretational skills?

She said "clearly anti-Semitic" which means the same.
No "hyper-interpretational skills" needed by me.
She said,
"The language I used was anti-Semitic, it was offensive," she said. "What I did was I hurt people and the language that was the clear anti-Semitic language, which I didn't know at the time, was when I said, 'The Jews are rallying.'"

Jim,
Sorry I am still just discussing the Shah issue, but you are free to post any random shit you want.
I will shoot it all down again when I am finished here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 06:59 AM

Steve,
Joe Offer took the opportunity to have an extended last word in the Civil War

I think you must mean the "INTERNATIONAL BRIGADES Urge MP support" thread, where Joe said,
"Here's Jim Carroll, proving that he actually may be a Jew-hater after all:"


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 07:05 AM

I back my opinion with hard evidence and quoting Shah herself.

So, you have hard evidence that Naz Shah agrees with you? On What?

Yours appear to be just baseless whims.

Is it a baseless whim that Shah was not an MP when she made her stupid remarks while Morris was? Is it a baseless whim that both made prats of themselves? Your opinion, as ever, is based on rigid preconceptions and you hate having that pointed out.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 07:05 AM

"Did she really say BLATANTLY antisemitic? Or is this yet another example of your hyper-interpretational skills? She said "clearly anti-Semitic" which means the same"

Definitions:
1.blatantly
ˈbleɪt(ə)ntli/Submit
adverb
in an open and unashamed manner.

2.clearly
ˈklɪəli/Submit
adverb
in a clear manner; with clarity.

Quite different meanings there professor, you are attempting to re-write the dictionary ........... again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 07:15 AM

You are misrepresenting Joe Offer's (rather unfortunate) recent contributions, in which his opinions were inconsistently-expressed and somewhat uninformed to say the least. You opportunistically picked that out to smear Jim. Tell us what YOU think, Keith.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 07:42 AM

Dave,
So, you have hard evidence that Naz Shah agrees with you? On What?

On what I said she did Dave.
"That (anti-Semitism)is worse than just making a prat of herself,"

She has made statements subsequently that show how seriously she views her errors. More than just making a prat of herself.

Steve, I took no part in that discussion, and will pass no comment on it now it is closed.
I just cleared up which thread you were talking about. You described it as the Civil War thread, neither of which words appeared in the title.

Rag, both of those definitions describe her anti-Semitic statements very well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 07:48 AM

I would venture to guess that Joe intended the recipient of Carroll's generous offer of redemption to be the Anti Defamation League and not the Jewish Defense League but I will let Joe speak to that.

As for BDS, it is considered to be anti-Semitic and condemned by many countries for being a campaign to delegitimize Israel and spread hate and anti-Semitism around the world. In France, for instance, advocating for BDS is illegal and considered a hate crime.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 07:55 AM

But she did not use the word "blatantly" though did she.

YOU have interjected that word which has a totally different meaning to the word "clearly" which was used.

I have put both dictionary definitions on this thread just for you.

If you cannot understand the difference find an adult who will explain it to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 08:56 AM

But you did pass comment, didn't you, Keith, which is why I mentioned it, you clown!

"As for BDS, it is considered to be anti-Semitic and condemned by many countries for being a campaign to delegitimize Israel and spread hate and anti-Semitism around the world."

Considered by you. Give me a list of the countries that have condemned it. In each case, give me their official reason for condemning it. In other words, I think you've made up everything in that sentence. It's just throwaway stuff, isn't it? So I'm challenging you to verify it. No rush.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 09:05 AM

In other words no evidence but your interpretation of her words. Nothing whatsoever to conclude that she believes anything that you say. No evidence to back up you ridiculous claim that I do not consider antisemitism to be serious either.

Quelle Surprise.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 09:12 AM

accusations that are safely beyond the reach of responses.

Yeah, seems like Joe in addition to honing his trolling skills is a coward and a schoolyard bully.

Fascinating.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 09:43 AM

""Here's Jim Carroll, proving that he actually may be a Jew-hater after all:""
Can some moderator please prevent yet another thread from being used for yet another series of hate posts from those who have no rational arguments any more
To use a despicably cowardly posting from someone who should know better who has been given the right of reply after a thread has been closed down to the rest of us is beyond belief
If we wish to deal with antisemitism fully here, deal with the fact that Israel is now colluding with a fascist group in Hungary to prevent antisemitic posters from being banned - that's what I call antisemitism on an international scale - a pale shadow of any imagined and unproven antsemitism in the Labour Party
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 10:20 AM

Rag,
But she did not use the word "blatantly" though did she.

She could have because in the context the words are interchangeable.
I am not getting involved in etymological pedantry with you, and that is my last word on it.

But you did pass comment, didn't you, Keith, which is why I mentioned it, you clown!

I made no comment at all, you clown!

Dave,
In other words no evidence but your interpretation of her words.

Her words need no interpreting. She could not be clearer about what she now thinks of her anti-Semitic outbursts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 10:28 AM

Steve,
Give me a list of the countries that have condemned it.

Wiki,
Canada
Legislative Assembly of Ontario
In 2016, in a bipartisan vote, the Legislative Assembly of Ontario passed a resolution that "calls on the legislature to stand against any movement that promotes hate, prejudice and racism" and "reject the 'differential treatment' of Israel by the BDS movement".[56]

France
In France, the 2003 Lellouche law outlaws discrimination based on a variety of immutable characteristics, including national origin."[57][58] That law and hate speech laws have been applied to BDS activities.[59]

United States
In April 2015, Tennessee became the first state in the United States to pass a resolution condemning BDS.[60] As of June 2017, a total of 21 states have passed anti-BDS legislation.[61]


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 11:27 AM

Nice try, Professor, but YOU LOSE.

Now, go back and read Steve's posting - for comprehension this time - & then try again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 11:32 AM

As many as three – out of how many?
America ha kept Israel from facing war crimes charges with its UN veto and waged war on Vietnamese peasants for fourteen years by pouring burning petrol on them
FRANCE

CANADA

CANADA AGAIN
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 17 Jul 17 - 11:36 AM

I did Greg. Perhaps you need to.
He also said, "I think you've made up everything in that sentence."
I showed him to be wrong about that.
Thanks for bringing it up Greg.


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