Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: Felipa
Date: 12 Sep 20 - 09:10 AM

I sent a message to Manus Lunny, am hoping he will oblige.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: Felipa
Date: 12 Sep 20 - 09:02 AM

RUNRIGFAN - did you look at the previous posts? The lyrics you have shared are very incomplete (first words of various lines) and the chorus is WRONG - it's not "tilleadh tú" but "chífidh tú".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: RunrigFan
Date: 12 Sep 20 - 04:53 AM

Had a message from a HG Maclean

Thiocfadh, thiocfadh leat fanacht
Thiocfadh, thiocfadh leat imeacht
Agus tilleadh tu an saol atá romhat
Thiocfadh, thiocfadh leat
Siúl
Seascair
Agus
Thiocfadh, thiocfadh leat fanacht
Thiocfadh, thiocfadh leat imeacht
Agus tilleadh tu an saol atá romhat
Thiocfadh, thiocfadh leat
Anseo
Agus
Éistigí liom
Thiocfadh, thiocfadh leat fanacht
Thiocfadh, thiocfadh leat imeacht
Agus tilleadh tu an saol atá romhat
Thiocfadh, thiocfadh leat
Thiocfadh, thiocfadh leat fanacht
Thiocfadh, thiocfadh leat imeacht
Agus tilleadh tu an saol atá romhat
Thiocfadh, thiocfadh leat
Thiocfadh leat

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: Felipa
Date: 31 Aug 20 - 05:16 PM

The transcription and translation that Michael R is a right mess (I've sent a correction of the chorus to one of the websites which features that version; there are others which incorrectly give "tilleadh" - Scottish Gaelic infinitive of the verb to return - instead of tchífidh)

I spell the Donegal version of the future tense of the verb to see, "tchífidh", but the modern dictionary spelling is "chífidh". Other than that "h", I agree with Martin Ryan re the chorus and its translation. I don't think I will be able to decipher the verses. Too bad I didn't remember about this song when I saw Manus Lunny last autumn. He has settled in Co. Donegal, in an area where Irish is the main language. I attended a commemoration of the writer Séamus Ó Grianna in his native Rann na Feirste and both Manus and Dónal Lunny were among the musicians playing at a concert. I spoke with Dónal briefly to ask if he knew about "Sayonara", a book of Japanese folktales collected by Ladcafio Hearn and translated into Irish by Pádraig Mac Cearáin.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: michaelr
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 03:14 PM

Philippa, I will happily send you an mp3 as I did Martin, if you'd PM me your email address.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 09:27 AM

Philippa

My problem is unfamiliarity with sung Donegal Irish! I could manage a translation if we had it in writing but, although michaelr has sent me an MP3, it's quite difficult to make it out for the reasons you guessed!

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 21 Feb 09 - 09:03 AM

Declan
Thiocfadh leat = You could ..., Thiocfadh liom = I could
Thiocfainn = I would come
Tchífidh mé = I will see (same as "feicfidh mé"), Scots Gaelic would be chí mí (I'm not bothering to change the direction of the "fada" stroke)

Michael R - I think Martin Ryan has a good command of written Irish (I've had emails in Irish from him, have not spoken with him)

I don't have the song to listen to it, and I think Capercaillie tends to use so much accompaniament that it makes it difficult to listen for words!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: michaelr
Date: 20 Feb 09 - 06:40 PM

Or Felipa, for that matter. I know you're here!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: michaelr
Date: 19 Feb 09 - 10:09 PM

I do wish Philippa would take pity...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 06:27 PM

Thanks for confirming that, Sue... ;-)

We're slowly inching toward a complete text. I have hope!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 01:53 PM

.....and now I've heard back from Mai...you guessed it...it's Irish!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:51 PM

Michael

Scots gaelic singer Fiona Mackenzie has replied saying: "The song you mention is DEFINITELY Irish, no question about it!"

.... which you've probably gathered by now anyway!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: Declan
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 05:18 PM

Martin,

Your translation looks spot on. But I still think the final line could also be translated as I would come, I would come with you, whether there is an intentional double meaning in the words or its just my interpretation is a matter of opinion.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 03:36 PM

Yes - I'm confident that's a form of "cífidh tú" i.e. you will see. If she's not a native speaker of Donegal Irish then the margin for error opens up a bit!

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: michaelr
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 03:20 PM

Thank you, Martin. Karen is from the Western Isles (Scotland).

I keep hearing a "k" sound in the third line of the chorus, sort of like "agus cheeky too". Does that make any sense?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 02:34 PM

I've had a listen to Karen Matheson's singing of this song and this is what I make of the chorus:

Thiocfadh leat, thiocfadh fanacht
Thiocfadh, thiocfadh leat imeacht
Agus cífidh * tú an saol atá romhat
Thiocfadh, thiocfadh leat

which I would translate as

You could, you could stay
You could, you could go
And you will see the life that awaits you
You could, you could

* I agree it sounds like she sings tí rather than cí but I can't make sense of the former.

Is Karen from Donegal - or is she singing phonetically?

The verses are a bit harder to make out through the rather Celtic mist - I might try them on someone with more familiarity with Donegal Irish!

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From:
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 06:41 PM

Michaelr, The Scottish for that would be "Thigibh", which I think would pronounce similarly to "Thiocfadh" so that is a correspondence. Will check what I can.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 05:25 AM

I should keep away from this until we have a printed text ...

The opening line is almost certainly:

"Thiocfadh leat fanacht"

This is a conditional statement - not a question. The sense is "You could stay". The root is the verb structure "tar le". As GUEST suggests "Tig le" is a Donegal form of the present tense of the same structure "tagann le".

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 04:58 AM

Yes michaelr, it's not standard 'Irish as she is taught in schools but 'tig leat' means 'you can' in some parts of the north. The standard would say - D'fhéadfá fanacht- that is the Conditional mood second person singular.

Guest

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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: michaelr
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 12:52 AM

Thank you, Guest. Your understanding of the lyric seems to coincide with the somewhat dismissive one of Guest, 04-04-08.

So you're saying that "thiocfahd" means "you could"?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 06:40 AM

Michaelr, I've listened to the song and it does sound a bit like Scots Gaelic but I suppose that could be due to the accent or dialect. I'm from Co Waterford in the south-east of Ireland and the Co Donegal people [Tír Chonaill] do sound a lot like the people of the Western Isles to me. From what I can understand it is one of those "Celtic" New Age or soul lyrics that consist of little phrases and expressions of longing rather than a story. But I wouldn't accept the translation you were given. The chorus seems to just say: 'You could, you could stay, you could, you could go, you could see the life that's before you, you could, you could.' The first verse seems to start with: 'Walk through the meadows, down to Rann na Mart[?], and you'll see.... [here it probably names all the beauty spots along the coast but that's only a guess]. The second verse seems to say:'You could go out over the border[ another guess], stay here, listen to the quiet sea, listen to me.'

It might be as someone said earlier, a plea for young Gaeltacht people to come back home. That would make sense as all the Gaeltacht areas suffer from the loss of the young people who are the life blood of a district and its future.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 05:27 PM

Maybe it might work better to start a new thread, Michael, entitled Any Irish gaelic speakers here, or something?! because lots of Irish speakers will pass over the current one, unless they know this song.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: michaelr
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 08:51 PM

refresh in the hope someone will check the accuracy of this

Subject: Lyr Add: Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht (Manus Lunny)
From: michaelr
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 08:21 PM

Someone posted this on the Capercaillie fan site. Hopefully one of or resident Gaels can check it.

Thoicfadh leat fanacht (Manus Lunny)

curfa:
Thoicfadh, thoicfadh leat fanacht
Thoicfadh, thoicfadh leat imeacht
Agus tí bhi tú an saol atá romhat
Thoicfadh, thoicfadh leat

Siúil an bhrid na portaí
'S iascaire na (or an?) imeacht
Agus tí na hEireann dhá sa suaimhneach
Gan chré as tí go ndeann

curfa
Thoicfadh, thoicfadh leat fanacht
Thoicfadh, thoicfadh leat imeacht
Agus tí bhi tu an saol atá romhat
Thoicfadh, thoicfadh leat

Ach tá guth ar scar torainn
Cóch te aici anseo
Agus éistigi (could be éist aici?) leis an fharraige
Éistigi liom


chorus:
Would you come, Would you come stay with me
Would you come, would you come leave with me
And the house, you were the life that is before you
Would you come, would you come with me

The bride walks to the port
A fisherman is departing
And the House of Ireland is in a peaceful state
Without the earth from the house going to dust

chorus:
Would you come, Would you come stay with me
Would you come, would you come leave with me
And the house, you were the life that is before you
Would you come, would you come with me

But a voice is seperating from the noise
A hot gust (of wind) at her here (i.e. hits her face)
And listen to the sea also
Listen to me

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: Thompson
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 12:58 PM

Nary a one. Sorry.

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: michaelr
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 06:33 PM

Thompson -- that is the chorus. Did you find any verses?

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 06:28 PM

No, the song is definitely in Irish (Gaeilge), not not Scottish (Gàidhlig). The song was written by Mánus Lunny - all of his songs for Capercaillie (Rann Na Móna, Níl Sí I nGrá & Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht) were written in Irish.

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From:
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 03:41 PM

Well, the reason the Irish people can't help is as stated earlier, this song is in SCOTTISH Gaelic. If you can find the lyrics, and post them, we might get them translated for you.

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: Thompson
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 01:15 PM

On a Capercaillie fan forum, someone gives one verse as:

Thiocfadh, thiocfadh leat fanacht
Thiocfadh, thiocfadh leat imeacht
Agus tilleadh tu an saol atá romhat
Thiocfadh, thiocfadh leat

(tilleadh tu? Don't know what that means).

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: michaelr
Date: 07 Apr 08 - 05:39 PM

Guest, Guest: No fair teasing!

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Apr 08 - 01:22 PM

Yeah, I tried that six years ago as well. I had no response.

There are quite a few Irish speakers here on Mudcat. I keep hoping one of them will take pity...

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: Thompson
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 07:25 PM

Literally, He will come over the sea, the man who will marry me.

I'd say the best dart would be to contact the writer, Mr Lunny.

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: michaelr
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 03:18 PM

Actually, I wonder if I'm conflating two separate songs...

I think you are. "Tighinn air a'mhuir am fear a phosas mi" is from the CD "Nadurra" and means "The one who will marry me is coming over the sea", according to the booklet.

There may be different versions of "Beautiful Wasteland": the US release has a blue cover. Track list is as follows:

1. M'ionam, 2. Inexile, 3. The Tree, 4. Am Mur Gorm, 5. Beautiful Wasteland, 6. Co Ni Mire Rium, 7. Shelter, 8. Hebridean Hale-Bopp, 9. Kepplehall/25 Kts, 10. Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht, 11. Finlay's, 12. Sardinia

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: Thompson
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 02:09 PM

Whoops, sorry, blue clicky didn't work, and also it's "from that *house* on the sea" (presumably either his boat or an allegorical reference to distance. And of course 'thiocfaidh leat' probably means 'you can'...

Actually, I wonder if I'm conflating two separate songs...

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: Thompson
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 01:53 PM

Sorry for the multi-posts, I can't find an 'edit' function.


This review says: THIOCFADH LEAT FANACHT. This is a song encouraging young people to travel the world but to come back to their homeland again sung in Gaelic. A traditional song with traditional music. Lovely and lilting wistful sounds.



This super-duper Gaelic lyrics site says "no lyrics available".

Hmmm.

The fans on this http://www.capercaillie.co.uk/fans/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1444&highlight=&sid=67a1957c497773de58ec453c6486cf88 were looking for it back in 2002, but don't seem to have found it.



This review in Italian (I think) appears to quote part of the song as:

hiocfadh leat fanacht o Tighinn air a'mhuir am fear a phosas mi.

This is Scots Gaedhlig, rather than Irish, and from my rusty Irish I can say that it means "Would you come and stay from the country beyond the sea, man I married?"

I'd suggest throwing up another quote on that capercaillie.co.uk site, and maybe if you're not shy also writing to the band. Sorry I can't help more.

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: Thompson
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 01:37 PM

By the way, 'Thiocfaidh' doesn't sound like Irish - the T shouldn't have an H after it when it's all alone and lonely like that. Unless they're being slangy and saying "Wouldya come and stay?"

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: Thompson
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 01:36 PM

I took a look on Amazon, and this track doesn't seem to be listed. Beautiful Wasteland's tracks are listed as:

1. Beautiful Wasteland
2. M'ionam
3. Ille Dhiunn
4. Shelter
5. Finlay's
6. Am Mur Gorm
7. Tree
8. Keppehall
9. Co Nimire Rium
10. Thuy Thu
11. Sardinia
12. Hebridean Halle Bopp

What's the story? ARe there two versions of the album?

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: michaelr
Date: 04 Apr 08 - 11:41 PM

Guest, yes, I assumed you had the BW CD: I was offering one from my band (Hopefully not headache-inducing).

Agreed about the sound effects; have you ever heard the "dance remix" CD produced by Will Mowat? Truly atrocious. I think the Capers are over that phase by now.

Thanks for your efforts,
Michael

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 04 Apr 08 - 09:52 PM

Actually, I think it might be closer to four glasses of wine.

At any rate michaelr, you don't deserve the treatment I've set out here. Tomorrow I'll try and give it a listen, and see if I can sort it out a bit for you.

But listening to it again just now, I remember those horrid, horrid sound effects that throw me out of the song every time I hear it. It reminds me of the absolute worst of the excesses of over-produced stuff by Capercaillie in that era.

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 04 Apr 08 - 09:35 PM

Thanks, but I've already got the cd. I've heard it referred to as an "exile's song" and Manus certainly has a theme of exile sorts of songs going in his original stuff, as many of the Irish singer-songwriters do.

I've always referred to it as the "Coming and Going in Circles" song.

IMO, the very best duet by Manus and Karen was their first ever from 'Sidewaulk', Oh Mo Dhùthaich. One of the most stunning duets Manus has ever done.

I just popped the CD in, and listening to it is already giving me a headache. Manus composes lyrics in Donegal Irish, which is why so many people's eyes glaze over when you ask for translations of his original lyrics.

I think someone asked me to translate it once.

Coming and going, listen up...

go away...

then come on come back...

listen up...

The drip sound of the effects machine makes me insane...and then there is that truly obnoxious effect of something pounding metal...

Anseo...

agus chi...

repeat endlessly until your brain explodes...

sorry, just can't do it after two glasses of wine. I can't perform bleedin' miracles.

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: michaelr
Date: 04 Apr 08 - 09:01 PM

Well, I don't understand the lyric, so I don't know whether it's crap or not. But I do love the sound of it... it's the song on Beautiful Wasteland that first enchanted me with Karen Matheson's amazing voice. The guitar work (unusual for Capercaillie) is magic too.

Guest, if you can figure it out (and translate, if it's not too much to ask), you've got the free CD coming.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 04 Apr 08 - 08:24 PM

I'll agree, the lyrics are silly. Nil Si nGra was a far better song, about a meaningful subject. This was a throw away song about Manus moving to the Gaeltacht where his mum is from, if I'm recalling correctly. I could give it a listen again, see what I can suss out.

But michaelr, why the obsession for such a crap lyric? Mostly, it just repeats the song title over and over, doesn't it?

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: michaelr
Date: 04 Apr 08 - 08:14 PM

Philippa? Anyone?

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: michaelr
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 06:17 PM

Six years, and still no joy. Jaysus...

Philippa, since you refreshed this thread, my above offer of free CDs still stands (I've since spent the $25,000 though ;-)

I'd be greatly appreciative if you would help.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 11:20 AM

Philippa, the lyrics to "Thiocfadh Leat Fanacht" aren't there.

Subject: RE: Help: Níl sí i ngrá
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 07:02 AM

have a look at http://www.geocities.com/celticlyricscorner/capercaillie/nil.htm

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: michaelr
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 09:46 PM

Aodh -- you're right; even though they're a Scots band, Manus Lunny writes in Irish. "Nil Si I nGra" is another one of his, from "To The Moon".

George, thanks for checking.

Where are those Irish speakers?

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From:
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 09:09 PM

I checked the Gaelic-L mailing list, and didn't find the lyrics there, even though a request had been posted in 1999 looking for the lyrics.

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: Aodh
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 03:37 PM

If my memory is right this isn't the first time they have sung in Irish. Is there not a song called Nil sin na nGra or Nul Sinn nan Graidh?

Subject: RE: Help: Capercaillie Gaelic song
From: Folkiedave
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 03:23 PM

Despite my belief in Capercaillie not being poor - I reckon they would perform it for that sort of money!!

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk
www.homlfirthfestival.com