BS: What have the French ever done for us ?

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Paddy Plastique
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 09:50 AM

No-one mentioned Serge Gainsbourg... (also reminds me of their simmering anti-semitism, poor Cap'n Dreyfus)
On the plus side, again, General Humbert
Or any of the hundreds of painters
Or any of the legion of film directors (or should that be 'cineastes')
Or the world's best health service
Emile Zola, Honoré de Balzac, Raymond Queneau, Marcel Proust, Gustave Flaubert, Georges Perec, Louis-Ferdinand Céline and volumes & volumes of writers..
Lots & lots of beautiful women and probably even handsome men (but is that not down to all the Italian/Spanish/North African genes about the place?)
L'académie Francaise with its paranaoia regarding English and, semble-t-il, 60 million members (try speaking your schoolboy French to any native..)

Apart from that - the miracle of continuing to be the world's No.1 tourist destination despite the fact that someone translated the American motto: 'The customer is always right' into 'ze customer eez a piece of shite'
Returning to Ireland from here I am taken aback my 1st few days by the lack of surliness and even outright friendliness of people in shops/pubs etc. Granted, Laurent - I agree that it's the same for 'les autochtones' too..
Oh and, they most likely produce so many chemists as they're the biggest shower of hypocondriacs this side of... er .... em... the statue o' liberty

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: IanC
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 09:03 AM

Guillotine ... only used in Halifax, England ... From Holinshed (1577) (William Harrison's section entitled "Descriptions of Britain and England")

Witches are hanged, or sometimes burned; but thieves are hanged (as I said before) generally on the gibbet or gallows, saving in Halifax, where they are beheaded after a strange manner, and whereof I find this report. There is and has been of ancient time a law, or rather a custom, at Halifax, that whosoever does commit any felony, and is taken with the same, or confesses the fact upon examination, if it be valued by four constables to amount to the sum of thirteen-pence-halfpenny, he is forthwith beheaded upon one of the next market days (which fall usually upon the Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays), or else upon the same day that he is so convicted, if market be then holden. The engine wherewith the execution is done is a square block of wood of the length of four feet and a half, which does ride up and down in a slot, rabbet, or regall, between two pieces of timber, that are framed and set upright, of five yards in height. In the nether end of the sliding block is an axe, keyed or fastened with an iron into the wood, which being drawn up to the top of the frame is there fastened by a wooden pin (with a notch made into the same, after the manner of a Samson's post), unto the midst of which pin also there is a long rope fastened that cometh down among the people, so that, when the offender hath made his confession nd hath laid his neck over the nethermost block, every man there present doth either take hold of the rope (or putteth forth his arm so near to the same as he can get, in token that he is willing to see true justice executed), and, pulling out the pin in this manner, the head-block wherein the axe is fastened doth fall down with such a violence that, if the neck of the transgressor were as big as that of a bull, it should be cut in sunder at a stroke and roll from the body by a huge distance. If it be so that the offender be apprehended for an ox, oxen, sheep, kine, horse, or any such cattle, the self beast or other of the same kind shall have the end of the rope tied somewhere unto them, so that they, being driven, do draw out the pin, whereby the offender is executed. Thus much of Halifax law, which I set down only to shew the custom of that country in this behalf.

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 03:50 AM

Gave us someone to name chauvinism after!

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 09:27 AM

And the British (bloodless) revolution of 168-whatever?

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 05:58 AM

I think it was Mao Tse Tung who, when asked what he thought of the French Revolution, said it was too early to tell yet. Seems a very reasonable thing to say. (And the same would apply to the American Revolution.)

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 05:26 AM

I know the French are all right really (please don't quote me on that!), but I like to keep up our British (OK--English) traditions. I'm sure that Antoine de Ceaunes can speak our language perfectly well and only pretends to have that execrable accent. And I'm sure that Jean-Paul Gaultier isn't ... wait a minute, I don't believe that at all!

Steve (another goy, yet)

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: RangerSteve
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 06:52 AM

The people that I love to hate gave us a movie called "Amalie". That temporarily excuses their snobbism concerning food and wine. Maybe I don't dislike the French, just the Parisians.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 06:06 AM

William Bouguereau [France, Academic Classicism, b.1825 - d.1905]

Since you've probably not heard of him - biography at:
William Bouguereau (1825-1905)

(First time I really appreciated a Frenchman.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Laurent
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 05:15 AM

French Revolution has been a terrible mess. When Lavoisier was condemned to death in 1794, he was told that Revolution didn't need scientists.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Hrothgar
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 05:08 AM

They also gave us good examples of things not to do - like the Terror and the Vichy Government.

Oh, and le Grande Charles ...

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,wdyat24
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 08:35 PM

Shells fall in and out of a midden over time.

wdyat24

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: mousethief
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 12:51 PM

Cinco de Mayo by losing to the Mexican army on that date.

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,bdatki
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 12:07 AM

Lavoisier was a well-known chemist.

France had a lot of chemists, Charles, Lavoisier, a few others.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: greg stephens
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 09:44 PM

There have been some criticism of B Bardot's politics in earlier threads. I'd just like to say it wasnt donkey sanctuaries and Le Pen that my right hand was thinking of in 1958.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 09:30 PM

Well, there is Louisiana. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,Jane002_wales
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 07:23 PM

Given us an excuse to be xenaphobic - sorry Gareth but its true you are xanaphobic about the french

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 07:18 PM

Guilt by association should never be acceptable. Particularly when, as in the case of Gilles de Rais and Lahire it's to do with things that happen after Jeanne d'Arc had been murdered.

As I've said on another thread, about what the USA has done for us, I'm inclined to think it's maybe rather a pity it wasn't the French rather than the English who came out on top in America in the 18th century.

But to balance that, I think I'd sooner the English had won at the Battle of Hastings.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Laurent
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 06:53 PM

Joan of Arc (Jehanne Darc) was born in the village of Domrémy-de-Greux (now called Domrémy-la-Pucelle) during the Feast of the Epiphany, Twelfth Night (January 6th), probably in the year 1412. (see for details : http://members.aol.com/hywwebsite/private/joanofarc_domremy.html or http://www.stjoan-center.com/military/stephenr.html). She lived a maid until she was raped in her jail by English soldiers. She is supposed to be a symbol of French national feeling and a symbol of French resistance to English invaders. But the Hundred Years war, was both a feudal and civil war in France. Question her holiness is still a taboo (rumour reports teachers being sacked)… Nevertheless, two of her mates are famous : Lahire (French Jack of Heart) who was an "écorcheurs" (assassins) gang's chief and Gilles de Rais, hanged and burned for murdering (and raping) of many children.

I don't know if "Lottery of Saint-Just" is a true Danton's quotation. He 's known to have told the headsman on the scaffold : "Show my head to the people, it is worth seeing!".

As French, I'm an anglophile (Argh!! do I need to be put away?). You told about rude shopgirls… Yes it's true, even for French people. But I met a rude shopboy in London's tower too. Fortunately, I also met a lot of charming people in England, welcoming the bloody foreigner I am.
I fear we all have a bunch of bad tempered people throughout the world! A relation who worked in London in the sixties (or seventies) told me that n Eastside pubs, there was a note "Forbidden to dogs and French". I think it's time to bury the hatchet.

Steve Parkes, sorry for the double b… Ikh bin eyn Schlemiel! (I hope it is correct Yiddish. I'm a goy. Nobody is perfect!)

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Bert
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 04:26 PM

Pierre Vernier

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: M.Ted
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 04:10 PM

Jeanne D'Arc was from the Duchy of Lot, which did become a part of France for another couple hundred years--The voices told her to go to France, and, being divine in origin, they knew their geography pretty well--She is called the "Maid of Orleans" because she raised the siege--

... This voice told me, two or three times a
         week, that I must go away and that I must come
         to France; and my father knew nothing of my
         leaving. The voice told me that I should go to
         France and I could no longer stay where I was.
         It told me that I should raise the siege laid
         to the city of Orléans. The voice told me also
         that I should go to Robert de Baudricourt at
         the town of Vaucouleurs, who was the captain
         of the town, and he would provide people to go
         with me. And I replied that I was a poor girl
         who knew neither how to ride4 nor lead in
         war."5

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 03:40 PM

I can't speak for Paris having never been there but I have been to Cannes, Toulon and Marsailles. I found the people generally polite and welcoming.
   Laurent, wasn't there a politician (I think Danton)who referred to the guillotine as "The Lottery of Saint Just"? I was under the assumption tha Joan of Arc was French from Orleans (Hence her being called the "Maid of Orleans")
   I had forgotten about Pasteur. Wasn't there a biologist called LeVosier (The spelling may be off).
   Let us also not forget the great aviators of the early periot of flight. Bleroit, Georges Gunymeyer, Rene Fonck, Raoul Lufberry nad Charles Nungesser (Who may have actually been the first to cross the Atlantic solo. Experts think he became a smoking hole in Nova Scotia.)
   By French law, Napoleon Bonapart was French indeed he spent his life in the French army starting out as an artillery officer. If nothing else he gave British children a bogeyman. (Until JAck the Ripper came along, that is.)Kindest regards, Neil

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Dead Horse
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 08:56 AM

It were them thar filthy swines, the Spanish, that welcomed the (twice) outcast Cadiens into Louisiana that can (possibly) take the credit for Cajun music (not the Cajuns, ignore 'em)(better still, transport 'em to Kent. U.K.)
And although the poor old froggies have been blamed for much destruction in Portugal during the peninsular war, I hazard a guess that us Brits did a fair amount of *liberating* despite Wellingtons orders to the contrary. I have heard somewhere that Portugal are our oldest ally, so what did they do in two world wars? Allied 'emselves to Switzerland, no doubt! At least we know where the French stand, firmly and unequivocally on both sides of the fence.....so there.

(rather like us, really)
Now, lets get at the Dutch!!!

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Troll
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 08:03 AM

They serve as a marvelous bad example.When it comes to dealing with anyone NOT French that is.
I'm surprised that the rest of the world hasn't finally had enough of surly waiters and rude shopgirls and burned the whole place down. I guess they just can't get together on that anymore than they can get together on anything else, so France is probably safe.
For now.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 03:25 AM

A vaccine against rabbies? Oy, vay'z mir!!

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Duane D.
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 11:54 PM

Chocolate pudding.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: DougR
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 10:11 PM

French Onion Soup.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 10:01 PM

Given the fact that Napoleon was Emperor of all France, I would say he was French, without a doubt, regardless where he was born. Sort of like saying that Hitler (born in Austria) was not German to say Napoleon was not French.

France has also given the world some great pastries and other fine cooking.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 08:13 PM

I don't think it was Brigitte Bardot's politics that people had in mind.

Surely Charlemagne would have been in that list of approved Fench heroes.

And wash your mouth out, M.Ted. Lorraine was French then and it's French now.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: M.Ted
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 07:56 PM

Laurent, I was going to mention the Lumière Bros and Mellies myself, if only to disabuse those who believe cinema to be an American invention--by the way Joan of Arc was not French-

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Laurent
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 07:20 PM

Bonjour !

Well, I would like to rectify some mistakes.

Catarina, Asterix and Obelix are French! Only the publisher was Belgian.
René Goscinny was born in Paris. His parents were Jewish emigrants (his father was from Poland, his mother from Ukrainia). He lived for a while in Argentina and in USA before coming back to France. He died 25 years ago (5/11/77)
Uderzo was born in Fisme (France) from Italian emigrants.
They both worked for a Belgian publisher.

Asterix and Obelix are caricature of French people : grousers, undisciplined, inflated with the sense of their own importance, proud of their glorious past story (forgetting all we did wrong…)
I remember my History lessons when I was a kid : there were few heroes :
-        Vercingetorix, the first French resistance fighter (What was France when Cesar created Gaul?);
-        Joan of Arc, treacherously burnt by the English ;
-        Saint Louis (number IX) ;
-        The sly Louis XI ;
-        François I with the castles along the Loire ;
-        Louis XIV and Versailles ;
-        Barras, the teenager who died for Revolution ;
-        Napoleon the Great;
-        Pasteur and thevaccine against rabbies;
-        And the last bu t not least Général de Gaulle.

Dead Horse you're right. A kind of guillotine seems to have been used in England (likewise Germany, Italy and even Persia). Dr Guillotin and a German harpsichord maher, Tobias Schmidt improved(?) the English machine. I'm glad we abolished death punishment in 1981. The guillotine had a lot of juicy names in French slang in the late 19th century and the early 20th. (If someone is interested, I can give some).

Dead Horse: if Châteauneuf-du-Pape is an excellent wine, 69 du pape has a strong sexual connotation!

I don't think Mrs Bardot is a good example of what French people should be. Though she is really concerned by baby seals survival, she is also known for her affinity with French National Front ideas (You know, Jean-Marie Le Pen, the guy who proclaimed that the nazis had good ideas…) Don't touch seagulls but chase out of France African people…

Even if we are proud of Marie Curie (for a lot of youngsters, it's just the name of their school), who was probably one of our best scientist with Pierre her husband, she was born Marya Sklodowska in Warsaw.

Is Napoleon French? You'll have to decide. He was born two years after Corsica joined France.

Some Bretons musician may not regard themselves as French.

Why did nobody mentioned the Lumière brothers who invented cinema, or Georges Melliès who first used visual effects in movies. Louis Pasteur ?

It was quite a long post.

A bientôt!
Laurent

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Just Amy
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 05:02 PM

I was going to say Napoleonic Code but, of course, everyone knows he was a Corsican not French.

Did anyone say - They gave us Vietnam when they were done with it.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 04:47 PM

Maybe it's better to concentrate on our own bad points, and other people's good points, nationally as well as individually.

It sounds a lot less ugly than doing it the other way round.

Sidney Bechet (who came from the States, but found France a much more welcoming place at that time).

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 04:01 PM

I rather think French is a beautiful language so that.
great wine. Dan Ar Bras. Sophie Marceau, Emmanuelle Beart, Edith Piaf (Damn that woman could sing!) Catherine Deneuve.
   Voltaire, The Curies, Alexandre Dumas (Pere et Fils), and a host of interesting and entertaining politicians.
The line "We'll always have Paris." is from the movie "Casablanca" Humphrey Bogart said it to Ingrid Bergman at the end of the flick. Great movie!! Kindest regards, Neil

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: M.Ted
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 12:27 PM

Coanda flew his jet in 1910--not before the Wright Brothers, but thirty years before it was "invented"--He also used the Coanda principle to the design of a "flying saucer" that could take off and land vertically--

He was a Romanian, though he studied in Paris--the French tend to claim as their own anyone who has lived in France and also done something noteworthy--

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Peter T.
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 11:27 AM

I think it is fair to say that the crown for the worst imperial bastards in Western History (I ignore Russia, China, and Japan) was held by the Portugueuse. I would rank Spain second, Belgium third (they started late, but really caught up), and France and Britain a tossup. The British at least stopped the slave trade, virtually single handed, which counts for a lot. The Portugueuse have a virtually unblemished history of miserable doings from 1443 until the 1960s! For sheer longevity alone, they win the prize.



yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 09:11 AM

Wasn't there a bloke called Coanda who made the first rocket-powered flight in France some time before the Wrights? He discovered soemthing now called the Coanda (or wall-attachment) effect, whereby a moving fluid (in his case, the rocket exhaust) attaches itself to and adjacent flat surface (in his case, the aircraft fuselage). He made a successful take-off and a successful flight, but ... well, there's enough there for you to work it out!

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Hrothgar
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 02:45 AM

The Napoleonic Wars. How many casualties?

The Emperor Maxmilian of Mexico.

The Rainbow Warrior murder.

All based on these wild delusions that they have had any real military capacity since about 1750.

And this is while I'm in a good mood .........

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: boab d
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 03:43 PM

gave the plague to England and killed most of them along with just a few Scots. Well done

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 03:33 PM

Look gang, whatever we may owe the French and whatever they have given us, we will always be in their debt for taking Jerry Lewis off our hands (except on Labor Day).

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: gnu
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 03:24 PM

Come to think of it, they did sink that boat with that bunch of tree huggers on it, didn't they ? Whassaname, Greenpiss ? Damn fine bunch a lads ! Mighta saved the Atlantic Salmon if they'da used more TNT.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: gnu
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 03:19 PM

Brigitte Bardot. The only thing that could make her look better is a club.

gnuwholikescodfillets

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 02:43 PM

immortality for Jerry Lewis?....strange folks, them frogs.

Plaster of Paris? (well, everyone else beat me to the good stuff!)

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 01:39 PM

Noone's mentioned the Norman Conquest. For good or ill.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: M.Ted
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 01:32 PM

The Wright brothers achievement has to be qualified quite a bit--it is something to along the lines of "first powered, winged, heavier than air" (and even at that, there is another competing claim) as there had been powered balloons around since the 1860's though I cannot remember who--

The French have had a colorful history in aviation, my favorite episode being Leon Gambetta's escape from Paris by balloon during the German siege in 1870 (October 17, if you keep track), which I always thought was the inspiration for the balloon escape in the movie of the Wizard of Oz--

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 01:20 PM

And then there is the great Breton musicians like Dan ar Bras, Soïg Siberil, Christian Lemaitre, Ifig Troadec, Jean-Luc Thomas, and so many, many more.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,John Gray in Oz
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 12:54 PM

Yeah McGrath, you got me on the world cup thing. I was thinking of things of some significance though and a soccor cup doesn't loom large down here in Oz.
I tend to look at the "300" and the Commonwealth forces in Singapore as being defeated whereas the French threw the towel in before the, inevitable, defeat occurred.

JG/FME

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 12:20 PM



World Cup 1998.

(And I think you're getting mixed up with some other country about World War II. Getting defeated isn't the same thing as not knowing what side you're on.)

Bourrés; and Blowzabella's best tunes.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Grab
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 12:07 PM

M Ted - "manned flight and mechanically powered flight"? The Montgolfier brothers were the first European balloonists, yep. First flights of a winged aircraft were Von Lilienthal though, who was a German. And unless I'm *very* mistaken, it was the Wright brothers who were first with powered flight.

What else have the French done for us? Strikes, of every variety. They make Arthur Scargill look like a workaholic...

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: GUEST,John Gray in Oz
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 11:55 AM

The world's longest running losing sequence - when did they last win anything?
The world's greatest act of procrastination - in WWII they couldn't make up their minds whose team they were on.

JG/FME

Subject: RE: BS: What have the French ever done for us ?
From: Pied Piper
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 11:49 AM

Without doubt the most important French contribution to the world is the Bidet a magnificent device, but in not so impressed by those French toilets in which you have to squat to do a No2.