BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!

Subject: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 07:51 PM

Let me say right up front that I am fat! There is no other word for it. My joints hurt, My feet are always in pain, my back is bad, and I have high blood pressure. And I want to enjoy this phase of my life. I am single and loose on the world with none of those nasty responsibilities that so entangle our lives.

I just went to Australia for the first time in my life and enjoyed myself very much. But I didn't do all I wanted to do because I wore myself out just getting across town to the places I wanted to see. I spent much of that trip either in pain or avoiding pain.

So it is past time to do this. But how?

I am alone and my will power isn't really up to stopping myself. I need help. I need encouragement. I need ideas. I need anything you can offer to help me beat this demon I have hanging around my waist.

Help!!!

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Peg
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 08:10 PM

No diet on earth will work without exercise, so be sure to make that a daily part of your life...start by walking a mile, work up to two, then three, etc.

It's also helpful to eat lots of fresh fruits and vegetables and green salads; these fill you up and provide needed nutrients so food cravings tend to be less.
good luck!

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 10:36 PM

Atkins worked for me and lots of others - there was a thread about it on here some time back.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 10:51 PM

read the metabolic typing diet or some such title...there is a test that you take that will indicate what type of eating plan you should be on...many many people who are overweight are protein types who are not eating the protein type diet, but succomb to advice given by well-meaning friends etc...start now by getting some baseline medical checks...so you have something to compare things to..I would start out with the book, take the self-test...

At the very least, remember we have absolutely no need or evolutionary adaptation to coke, pepsi, white flour, trans fats, fruit loops etc. At the very least get these non-foods out of your diet...no white flour.....remember that...you need to find out what your body needs..not someone else's body. If you are of one ethnic strain, say Norwegian..look at what your ancestors ate. That is why the Mediterranian diet works so well for Greeks, Italians etc..that is what they are adapted to need. You might have different needs. Don't dismiss the Atkins diet, and if you discuss it with anyone, if they say you can't eat vegetables just don't discuss it further with them. They know nothing about it. They are blowing smoke. I don't care what their credentials are; they are repeating folklore. mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mack/misophist
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 11:16 PM

See your doctor. Mine has me on a special 500-800 calorie per day diet. You WILL lose weight on this diet without exercise. I can't exercise either. But it ain't cheap. There's doctor supervision, weekly meetings, and the supplements cost about 100 USD per week. This should get you down to where you can exercise. And it's safe. The drawback is that you will be free to get fat again.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: momnopp
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 11:42 PM

Visualize the healthier, lighter, pain-free, more agile you. Start with the end in mind.

Remind yourself regularly why it's important to you and why you're doing this for your benefit.

Get a cheerleading section that you're comfortable with to encourage you (with affirmative messages).

Set goals in small increments -- doable increments, maybe 5 pounds at a time so that your subconcious will accept the notion of your losing weight at a reasonable pace.

Tell your goals to people who know you and who care about your well-being.

DRINK LOTS AND LOTS OF WATER.

Acknowlege that it took a long time to gain the weight, it will take some serious dedication to lose it, but it's well worth the effort.

Now if I could only follow all of this sage advice...

Peace,

JudyO

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: musicmick
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 02:15 AM

Shalom Naemanson,
I sympathize and empathize (I should say sympathighs). I have been fat my entire adult life. I know how dificult it is to start and maintain a diet. I know what inertia is and I share your reluctance to excersise. But, I also know that you have taken the first, and most vital, step toward recovery. You have not accepted your condition as inevitable and irreversable. Your next step must be motivated obsession based, if at all possible, on desparation. A lifetime of habitual overeating is a formidable foe. You'll have to fight it with an extremism of will. Sometimes, fear is a useful tool.
Three months ago, my doctor told me that my blood sugar level had climbed into the dibetic range. Well, that scared the shit out of me and I started a Weight Watchers regimen and lost about 25 pounds in the first six weeks. That brought my sugar count down to normal but I didn't stop at that. I realized that the threat of diabetes had driven me to do what I always knew I should be doing, so I decided to avoid the threat by losing another 70 pounds and getting so damned healthy that I'll never die. I really believe that I am in charge of my life and death now and that feeling is empowering and enabling.
(I have dropped an additional 18 pounds and, I hasten to add, six inches from my waistline). I know that everyone is different but I hope my success helps you in your quest. Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 04:26 AM

I lost nearly 2 stones on the Atkins, with some variations, and felt a great deal better in a short time. The first couple of weeks I felt like shite though - that's when most people give up. I didn't do the induction weeks as I knew that my lifestyle then would make it difficult, if not impossible to follow. Instead, I went straight to the maintenance phase, where there is a greater variety. I must stress though, that before you do anything with your diet, read the book A

The basis of Atkins is that you cut down on carbohydrates, whilst keeping a fairly high intake of protein. There are vegetables you can eat - and as the book points out, it's a better and healthier diet than the average person eats now. Add to that, the fact that more and more fast food outlets are provding food to go that complies with the Atkins regime.

I don't really want to evangelise about the Atkins, but I have to say that after the first couple of weeks of feeling shite (just like any 'cold turkey'), I felt a great deal better, I slept better, I ate sensibly, drank lots of water/herb teas, and lost a total of 20lbs in 5 months. That amounted to 7 inches off my ass, 6 inches off my thighs, 4 inches off my waist and nothing off the bust!

The most important things you can do are like the AA steps - admit you have a problem (so you've done the most important step). Remove from your life the temptations (all those sugars, junk food, over-processed packet foods). Work out a sensible programme that replaces the temptation with something constructive (go for a walk instead of a burger, if you use public transport, walk to the next stop rather than your own, if possible, use the stairs instead of the lift, gently does it at first) and remember, just like AA, if you need help and encouragement, there is always the Mudcat!

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 04:27 AM

Sorry, that last post went in before I'd finished it....

I must stress though, that before you do anything with your diet, read the book ALL THE WAY THROUGH!!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Maryrrf
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 08:36 AM

I'm in the same boat. I want to lose about 20 lbs. My weight has been creeping up and recently I had to go clothes shopping, for skirts, etc. I couldn't believe the size I needed (and I won't reveal it here!). I also don't feel very good, tired, etc. and I feel TOO FAT. I had to give up the gym for financial reasons, so that's not an option. I've been trying to decide between calorie counting and Atkins. Both have their drawbacks and you can lose weight by both methods, I know. I remember being somewhat less hungry on Atkins, though.

I'll follow this thread with interest!

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 09:11 AM

Weight Watchers has also worked for me! The plan is well balanced and easy to include in my daily lifestyle. There are no special foods to buy and no calories to count. Each plan is indiviualized in that the amount of food you can eat is based on your current weight.....no starvation or drop in energy involved. You pick and choose what (and if) you want to exercise. Like you, I was finding myself uncomfortable and not able to get around like I wanted. It was really hard for me to exercise...so I just plain didn't. I can move more easily now and I do exercise...ok...ok...not as much as I should because I still hate it! Weight Watchers has made a HUGE difference in my life and I highly recommend it to anyone. (All the usual health benefits have followed......lower blood pressure, stable blood sugars, cholesterol under 200, etc). One little phrase that my WW leader used once, sticks with me....."If it's meant to be, it's up to me!"   

It takes time, so be patient with yourself....I tell myself with each measly 1 pound loss (when I'm thinking I should have lost...oh...you know...about 5 or so), that, it will come....it WILL come. I'm still working on it........enjoy the journey!

Michelle (who would be happy to correspond with you if you head in the Weight Watchers direction...aw heck...I'd be happy to correspond with you either way!!!!)       :)

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: LilyFestre
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 09:13 AM

OOPS...the above post was from me....forgot to sign in!!!!

Toodles!

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 09:34 AM

Brett, how on earth are you going to set aside your advice-rejection habit to really pay attention to input???? :~)

OK, assuming you are listening.... if not maybe someone else will benefit.... 'scuse the typos, new glasses due this week....

To REALLY lose and keep it off, you have to make yourself a healthy fat person before you can make yourself a skinny healthy person. The last time I saw you, I could hardly get down the front steps to sit on the porch with you, much less scamper back UP. Now I could kick your ass across the valley to that light up across from us, on the hill. I'm the same size I was, maybe bigger. I won't be, for long, tho it's taken me a LONG time to get to this point. (WW of the W: "I'm melllllttttinnnggggg......")

If you cut calories before you increase exercise, all you do is cut metabolism. If you exercise before you have sufficient muscle mass, all you do is burn blood sugar just consumed. Burning stored fat requires that you increase muscle mass, so that your RESTING metabolism rises. That way you burn more as you work out AND as you recover from working out.

See New Workout Program?

The best non-impact way to build muscle and burn aerobically is aquatic exercise. The best aquatic exercise for overweight people is vertical-- the pressure of the water reduces the workload of the heart while allowing a more intense workout. When you swim, the horizontal position reduces this hydrostatic pressure. This means your heart is working harder to move you through the water, while building fewer muscles than in vertical water work... the heart is doing the work instead of the thighs. And thigh muscles burn the most calories.

Yes, in swimming you will feel like you are working hard and using many muscles. This is partly because your heart will be protesting, as you pull a very non-streamlined bulk through the water. That same bulk, moving vertically against the water, produces incredible resistance (strength-building) without excessive cardiac overload. You will be amazed how much more enjoyable and productive it is to jog in the water. It's strength training that's as productive as using weights, as well as aerobic. Swimming can feel very rewarding-- you think you've gotten somewhere, and people like to measure laps. A better yardstick is how long you can maintain an even, raised heart rate and how much muscle you have increased/improved to sustain the next level of intensity as your program continues. And the muscles make you feel so much better, and look so much better too. Avoid scales-- you will gain weight as muscle mass increases, before you see much in the way of loss. Muscles weigh more than fat.

Also, the abs and other trunk muscles work hard to keep you vertical, especially if your gut tends to float you onto your back. They don't do so much in horizontal swimming.

I assume it's ocean aquatics for you-- see how smart it was to go to Guam???? Jog parallel to the shore to start out, then as you gain strength jog away from shore against the waves. If this is too hard now, get a foam pool-noodle (can be gotten online) and ride it like a witch on a broom to increase buoyancy and reduce impact, and walk in the shallow water. Lift the knee as high as possible with each step, at a pace that allows you to sip from a water bottle without losing the cadence. As the lower leg reaches out and moves against the water, point your toe to increase resistance (now or eventually). Walk forward; when the legs are tired, keep facing the same way but walk backwards. There are also standing exercises for legs, as well as VERY affordable buoyancy and resistance equipment when you are ready for it.

While you are doing all this, you can study up on different body types and nutritional approaches. Keep a sports-medicine and sports-nutrition focus in your Googling.

A good jog pace is sea shanties-- if you can sing and jog at the same time, you are working at the right pace to optimize the burning of calories. Faster or more intense is too fast, until you build the strength of muscle and your circulatory system to do interval training. Another measure of correct intensity and duration is that it should be enough work to make you need a nap and still sleep like the dead at night. It may hurt a few hours after the workout, but the pain should be gone the next day. If it's not, or if it hurts so much while you are doing it that icing does not help, it was too much and the time and intensity should be reduced. But you must still do a light workout at least 4 times per week. Avoid working out without at least 24 hours passing since the last one, as long as there is any pain at any time. A good measure of fat loss and muscle mass increase is, are you floating lower in the water and, eventually, needing to add buoyancy aids? If so you have changed your lean muscle mass/fat ratio, and probably lost inches off the waist.

If I can do it, you can. Now I am at the start of the weight-loss phase. You might be less than a year behind me, and you might catch me and pass me-- but for now, eat my dust! Me, I do about a half hour of tai chi/pilates in the water now, as well as jogging an hour or so. It took me a year to get there. At the beginning I spent far more time getting to the water than I did in it. I started barely able to walk in water. I could not maintain body heat in water until about 6 months into it, for more than about ten minutes at a time. I had to set aside all internal messages except, "Go. See how much you can do." Of course I surprised myself every day.

YOU CAN DO IT!

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Kim C
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 09:48 AM

The current issue of Prevention magazine has a great article about finding the right eating plan for YOU. The article says that all the popular diets really do work --- for somebody, but not necessarily everybody. We are all different and have different dietary needs. I have to have protein & fat to maintain my weight. I do not do well on the high-carb low-fat plan. But others do, so just remember everyone's mileage varies.

Talk to your doctor and see if you can get hooked up with a nutritionist and/or personal trainer who can help you put together a diet and exercise plan that will work for YOU. I know a lot or people are able to lowe weight without exercise - but exercise really is important to keep from losing too much muscle as you lose weight. Plus it just plain makes you feel good!

Good Luck!

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 10:19 AM

Brett - the absolute first step is to be kind to yourself. Make a list of all your good points and if you have trouble, PM a few of us. Once you know what you are worth, you will also know what you deserve. You certainly deserve to feel good and pain free. That's a start.

Most of us JUMBOS eat to fill up the emptiness inside. If we didn't eat, we might drink or do drugs or just sleep all today to anesthetise(sp?) the pain of the emptiness. You have to be feeling lonely on occasion, or missing the winter snow and smell of a storm coming on. The best "diet" in the world won't help you lose weight until you find a suitable substitute for food to feed the emptiness.

Exercise is a great choice. "I wish Charlie were here to share a shanty and a laugh...ah shit, I think I'll have a 20 oz. bag of chips and a pizza and a...

We all do it. The trick is to see it coming and choose to go for a walk and get away from the food at least until the emptiness passes. Endorphines help.

As to diet. It has to be something you can live with forever. Permanent change. If you will never be able to live without potatoes, Atkins will help you lose but how long will you be able to keep it off?

I am at the same stage you are. Maybe we can start a group to PM each with encouragement, a buddy system and keep a thread going to chart our results. Results only. I don't need gargoyle offering helpful hints.
What do you think? Anyone else interested?

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Kim C
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 10:56 AM

Heheheh..... I did not give up potatoes! However... things like pasta and potatoes are considered a rare treat nowadays. I used to eat them all the time, but not anymore. I never met a potato I didn't like, and was just not willing to do without them altogether! But I made other changes to make up for that.

I am not trying to lose weight, just maintain what I have already lost, and trying to stay fit as middle age approaches. I think a buddy list is a good idea and you can count me in as a cheerleader.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Peg
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 11:11 AM

No need to join a gym. Just plain walking is excellent exercise. Try to stretch the muscles a bit, too.

I used to be a runner, but foot injuries put an end to that. But I walk, hike and go cross-country skiiing in winter. I also do yoga sometimes. I find as I get older exercise is very important to maintaining my weight. But because I am fairly active, I find I'd have to increase my exercise quite a bit to see a real difference in weight loss. I am not fat, but losing twenty pounds would not be a bad idea at all. The important thing is to establish healthy habits that you can stick with over the long run..but a dose of dramatic weight loss from a new diet or exercise program in the beginning can be an excellent inspiration.

If you have not been exercising much at all, then you will see dramatic results very quickly as your metabolism readjusts...

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 11:25 AM

Just plain walking is excellent exercise

Some people can't do that. Therefore, the recommendation of aquatics.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Peg
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 12:31 PM

yes, aquatics are good if you have access to a pool! Not all people have that. But for the able-bodied and ambulatory, walking is cheap and accessible and effective.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: JennyO
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 12:46 PM

Brett, having just met you and gotten to know you a bit - well, you know I have the same problem, and even though I have lost weight in the past quite successfully (and then put it on again + extra) for some reason, I seem to be lacking the kick-start I need to do it again.

I can relate to what Sinsull said about filling the emptiness with food. I don't think the emptiness comes from external circumstances - I have everything going for me in my life right now, and I'm still stuck. It seems to come from somewhere deeper.

I don't exactly know what the answer is, but I think our best chance might be in the support that all of us here can give each other. I think Sinsull's idea of a support group with PM's and an encouragement thread (I imagine something similar to the nicotine addicts thread) is excellent, and I'd be very happy to take part in it.

We still have a lot of living to do, my friend. PM or email me if you like.

Jenny

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 03:02 PM

I have received some PMs. For now, give some thought to a thread (my idea is a weekly checkin to report losses, successes, etc. and a strong support group via PMs and a Chat Room)
I will be back home on Friday and will check in Saturday to get things started. The preference seems to be to keep this out of the threads as much as possible to discourage the naysayers and those who will be unable to be supportive.
Meantime, if someone comes across a diet that is big on Guinness and pizza, save it for me.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 03:46 PM

SINS, if you like, you can set up that thread-type support at that little website I set up, linked above. If so, please just keep the threads for cross-posts of support separate from the training logs (where only our own posts and maybe an occasional clarifying question should go).

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Joybell
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 05:11 PM

I can relate to this topic too. I've tried it all. Most of the above advice and more. Works at some times in your life, not at others. Also you can be a fat fit person and still be very unhappy about the fat. You can also be very happy about all other aspects of your life and still be fat and miserable about it. I have real trouble writing that F word - can't say it usually.
Still the sound advice above about medical supervision and the support of friends - particularly those here at Mudcat is the key I reckon. I'm sure you've thought long and hard on the matter so you know yourself. You've already taken a very big step.
Keep this thread going as long as it takes and the best of luck.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: jacqui c
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 05:54 PM

I've been on Atkins for about four months and it really suits me. I think that you have to find the right method for your own system. You do need to be exercising as well, to really make it work. Drinking lots of water also helps keep you healthy and fills you up. Medical help is useful - especially keeping an eye on your general health. I've had blood pressure and heart rate checked since starting Atkins and both are healthily low.

Support groups are great, and there's plenty of us on Mudcat to come back to when you've got the munchies or when things just get on top of you. Sometimes just knowing that other people are rooting for you can be a real positive.

Good luck - keep us posted.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Gypsy
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 09:32 PM

I'll join the chorus......ATKINS. Have lost 50lbs in one year, and am never hungry. Other diets didn't work for me cuz i was starved. Now, i have to remember to eat. Same, same, read the book cover to cover, and see if it is good for you. Handsome mando player and i walk 2-4 miles a day, good time to talk, and play with the dogs. And, helps with the metabolism.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Nathan in Texas
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 09:39 PM

I lost about 25 pounds and reached my "goal" on the South Beach Diet. It's somewhat similar to Atkins, but seems more reasonable - the right carbs and fats rather than no carbs and any fats (I know, that's an oversimplification of Atkins and I haven't tried Atkins), It also seems easier to maintain. I'm now eating relatively normally without gaining - 9 months after starting on South Beach.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: musicmick
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 10:28 PM

There are all kinds of diets and, to some extent, they are all just dandy. I tried the Atkins (I love meat and cheese and butter and such. In fact, they made me what I am, today), but I actually gained weight on it. I am an overeater. I eat until I'm full and then, I have a little dessert. How, then, have I managed to keep to the Weight Watchers program, you may well ask. I recognize my obsession and include it in my regimen. I still have my bagel and cream cheese in the morning but I scoop the bagel and go light on the cream cheese and I never know the difference. I would go nuts trying to eat "sensible" portions, so I make enormous salads and stir-frys (Vegetables have zero Weight Watchers points and just a little chicken or tuna goes a long way) and I EAT IT ALL. (Maniacal laughter in the background). I dont feel empty or resentful but, if I do, I just EAT MORE. OK, my methods are not condusive to proper diet technique and merely reinforce bad habits, but, when you weigh what I have weighed for as long as I have (And you know who you are, kids)
what works is more important than what they print in those motivational books. I have come up with some great recipes for easy to prepare, 0-5 point feasts. I will be glad to share them with anyone who can use them. Remember, there is always a way and practice beats theory every day of the week.

                      Mike Miller

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: LilyFestre
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 11:38 AM

Hey Mike....pass on those 5-pointers please!!!! I have found some GREAT soups that are minimal on points. They are pretty easy to make and wonderful on these cold days!!!! PM me anytime....I'm a WW too!!! I love trying out new recipes so PM or post away!!!!!!!!!!! WOOO HOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Michelle (-about 65)

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 05:31 PM

I looked into weight watchers and found I would lose about 16 pounds immediately - trouble is they were sterling pounds and not weight pounds!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: musicmick
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 05:34 PM

I don't like paying either, Liz. I use the Weight Watchers book and point system but I don't go to the meetings.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 07:20 PM

Brett, I really, really hate to say this, but just come trade lives with me for a few months. Since about August, I have lost about 30 lbs by just basically doing nothing......stress, illness, not taking time to eat, not taking time for me....etc. I weigh 105 (7.5 stone) and I am NOT bragging. I really need to gain a bit of weight. Several folks have offered....and NO, it's not cancer, anorexia or bulima.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: LilyFestre
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 08:02 PM

I gladly paid the $30.00 to join Weight Watchers and hit a meeting at least once a week....it's worth EVERY CENT as far as I'm concerned! They keep me going and it's great motivation, not to mention lots of great folks I have met! If you can do it without the meetings...more power to you! :) For myself, I find them to be a wonderful resource and a bit of a lifeline!

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Amos
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 08:02 PM

Well, darlin', I've got fifteen pounds here you're welcome to, just say the word! :>)

A

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 12:20 AM

Let me start with a confession. I have not been checking this thread. Mea culpa. I have lots of excuses but they are only excuses, the same as my excuses for eating that last bit of cookie or sweet. There must be some deep seated fear of the effort or some other psychological scar that keeps me from this course of action. C'est la vie.

For those who have suggested walking, thanks, but I have to do this without that. Don't get me wrong. I love to walk. I love the feel of walking whether it's on a sidewalk or a forest trail. On a sidewalk I used to stride along, head high, senses taking in the surroundings while I reveled in the rhythm of my legs and arms swinging along. In the woods I generally walked slower, pussy footing along, looking for wildlife.

But those days are gone. My feet were the first to go. Being on them for any length of time leads to pain. The pain builds and seems to be cumulative over time. I might be able to walk for a few days but then the pain glues me to the chair and that is not an acceptable outcome.

My knees went next, just about a year ago. I fell and tore the meniscus in my left knee. In the process of repairing it the doctor informed me that the level of degenerative arthritis had reached Class 3. The scale only goes to Class 4. That explained the pain I had been experiencing.

So walking is out.

But I live on a tropical island so swimming should be available to me year round. That would be the course to follow. Now I have to get over the inertia problem.

As for diets, I know I need to balance my diet and work using smaller portions. That is where the support group comes in with menu selections and proper portion sizes. I try to stay away from the fad diets. However, it seems Atkins has got the legs to keep going. I guess I need to find and read the book. I tried the Fit Or Fat diet and lost a bunch of weight a while back (1994) but then I was going through separation and divorce and walking two to three miles every evening. Would that I could walk again…

Some of you suggest small steps, easy goals to attain. Being as how I have at least 150 pounds to lose that seems, on the surface, ludicrous.

As for the cheerleading section, with the exception of my co-workers, you are it. I have almost nobody else here to fill that role.

For those who have suggested Weight Watchers, there are no WW organizations on the island.

To Susan who wrote, "Brett, how on earth are you going to set aside your advice-rejection habit to really pay attention to input???? :~)" all I can say is this format lets me pick and choose what sounds right and what doesn't. Your approach sounds right but we are back to the inertia problem. And there is only one person who can do something about that and that is me.

Oh, and Susan, jogging in the water here is doable but the sea floor is irregular and there is always the potential of stepping on a stone fish. But there is a lovely swimming area at Gab Gab Beach. I just need to get my butt down there and use it.

Available foods – This could be a problem on Guam. There are few fresh vegetables. There is limited choice on fruit too. The food of choice for many people here is Spam (We got rid of the meat and kept the fat!). I used to eat salads but always used too much dressing. I've never been a big fan of veggies anyway.

Hmm, Sorcha, you are just being mean now! *grin* There was a woman who joined us at lunch the other day, ate two cookies, and commented how much she likes junk food. She is in her mid forties (I guess) and tiny. She's a little bit of a person. We immediately declared her persona non grata.

So, I am now at the dithering stage of trying to decide what to do or how to proceed. Sins, sign me up for that support group, thread, or whatever. I could use the help.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Sorcha
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 12:35 AM

I am really sorry Nameseson...it's just me...but Susan is right. You need to be heathly before you can lose weight....I cna't really help it that I can lose weight by thinking about it....I really wish I could accept some of the offers of a few pounds I have been given...

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 06:23 AM

Well, I have 150 pounds extra. You can have all you want to cut off. Don't worry about it. This is just another example of how unfair the world can be.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 06:59 AM

Being that I don't know much at all about Guam...I have a question. Are you able to get frozen veggies at the store versus fresh? Also, look up chair exercises on the net.....they are specifically designed for folks that can't exercise on their feet. I also had about 150 pounds to lose. I have lost about a third of that WITHOUT tons of strenuous exercise. I couldn't exercise at first for a few reasons. I had a virus in my heart which led to congestive heart failure. Even with that managed, it was still difficult for me to move about much and not be really winded.

I know there are some who feel that you have to be a healthy at your current weight, but are you? If exercising much is honestly too hard for you right now (which it may be and I totally can understand where you are coming from), start with your food choices. What goes in your body is what is sustaining your life and also your quality of life. If you put junk in....guess what you are going to end up with?

Certainly ALL the choices are yours. I don't mean to hawk one diet over another. It's just that after multiple diets, the Weight Watchers plan works for me. I wish that success for you in whatever way you can get there. If they have no meetings where you are, try the program online. They have chat rooms, boards to post, all the point listings, recipes, tips, etc.

Whatever your choice, I KNOW you can do it and I wish you the very best!

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 09:53 AM

Brett,

It's actually like this-- and remember, I am not being theoretical; I've proved that this is how it IS-- "small goals" just means recognizing that you will gain health one small point at a time and lose weight one calorie at a time. It just means making the goals fit the physiology (and the attention span that is handle-able).

It boils down to this. Do you want to be well? If you do, then you want it more than you want everything and anything else, including any pre-conceived notions about how hard or scary of humiliating or sludgy it will be. Do you want to be well, or do you want to keep hold of everything you thought you knew, that has allowed you to get to where you are now? Some of these things helped you survive how things have been for you, so these are VERY hard to let go of..... but smart as they were at the time, they've just gotten obsolete, is the truth.... they WERE smart at the time! But now they aren't enough.

Do you really want to be well, or do you want something else even more? It took me a long time to be able to answer, YES, I want to be well, and I will surrender anything else I want, to get that thing.


As far as the inertia, I started by playing little games with myself. The pool was a bit of a piece away from home. (Heck, I was having trouble even getting dressed enough to go check the mailbox 20 feet from the door. Brett, I had not been able to stand up in the shower long enough to even rinse off, more than twice a week. Anyway, that was how it had been, and now I was doing better with that.) I'd start by being willing to just go out to the car. ("Maybe I'll feel like getting in.") Then it would be "Maybe I'll go for a drive-- a drive-thru Coke would be great (big luxury)."

Fast forwarding through several weeks' time: "Why not drive over to town?" ("Hey, waiddaminnit-- you tricking me? The damn pool's s'posed to be right over there.") "Maybe I'll go check out how hard it is to find the damn pool, today." "Maybe now that I found the building last week, this might be a good day to look around inside." Then I found out the handicap entrance made for the longest possible trip through the buildiing. I quailed, and went home in tears, knowing I could NOT do that walk.

So the next trip, I added heavy-duty-support shoes and took the elevator down to see how long that hall really would be. It WAS very long; it's a big building. But it had benches every 20 feet.

Eventually I got to the locker room and went in for a look. Another impossibly-long concrete floor, meat-locker cold, and all open-to-view changing areas. Wait-- bathrooms, OK.

The attitude I took was that even going outside was better than I had been able to do, and each day I did it, at least that part got easier. I told myself, "I promise--- I will take you home the minute you ask me to." No pushing allowed, only curiosity.

Now, these problems were not all caused by the weight and I know yours are not, either. I had been battling a debilitating spiral of illness for some time, and almost died. So these were all small steps taken in survival mode, once I had started to solve the health issues to where I thought I might have a chance of getting fitter. Not fit-- but fitter.

When I think about the large goals I freak right out. But that's not where the battle is. The battle is the length and depth of memories about how it has been-- all the things I really could not do, that still tell me I can't do anything now. So it's a game-- what new thing will I discover, today, that I can actually do, that I thought I could not do?

The small goals and successes lead you to a state of being able to be more realistic about the medium-size goals, and those successes start to pile up too. THEN you can hypothesize about the larger goals. The payoff is that once you get moving, however you can, you get to the medium-size goals much faster than you think you will, because at the time you set those goals, you thought you could do so little. So there are nice little surprises. I still remember the day this walking corpse of a woman (so I saw myself, realistically and being honest about it) had achieved the target heart rate of a healthy 65 year old woman. Dang! Fat people is s'posed to die of heart attacks! But now I was on the chart posted at the pool. I had not been on the chart, a 50 year old woman sicker than an 80-year old! Well I surprised myself with my next thought-- hey, I can lose 15 years a lot easier than I think I can lose XXX pounds (it's more than 150 BTW). And I have. I have a target heart rate now much closer to my age-appropriate range, and it's only been a year since I was at the 65 year range!

The inner voice has to add this: "Yeah, big guy, I know you can't do shit. How about if you just go see how weak you are, go on, go out there and see how bad the access to the beach will be, and how scary it will be to get out there. Go scare yourself some more." You know, you can always just sit down when you get there and sing some shanties and watch the waves. Rest assured, tho, a day will come when you decide to go see how vertical aquatics differs from swimming.

If you are really ready-- and your thread title says that on that one day, for a moment, you knew that you were-- then you will create solutions to what is scary or difficult or seems impossible. Ya just gotta go have a little look and see if it feels as bad as you think it will.

Stay vertical in the water, now, and let me know what happens.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 10:27 AM

First, beating yourself over the head about 150 lbs is pointless. Start with a workable goal. "I will lose 20 lbs." Then a simple workable plan on how to do it, AND DO NOT SET DATE FOR LOSING 20 POUNDS! Bodies work differently ansd you will be setting yourself up for failure.

Lets pick a time for a chat room based on EST and come up with a support system.

One last thought, Brett. Let's say you give it a try and only lose 30 lbs> - would that be bad?

According to my doctor, a 10% loss of excess weight can reduce your chances of a heart attack by 50%. Imagine: 30lbs less stress on those knees and toes. 30# less chub around the face.

Love yourself Brett. You really are pretty specil.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: LilyFestre
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 12:41 PM

**********Clapping and nodding in agreement with Sinsull and Susan*********

Those small baby steps add up to the entire world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 12:55 PM

Another reason not to start with the 150 and work backwards to what to do now, as you would in a strategic planning process where the goal comes before the action planning-- it's a practical reality that you simply do not know enough right now to envision what the action-plan steps might be. There is so much you will learn, either through experience or through research (or both), about physiologies of exercise and nutrition-- you HAVE to plan and act as you go because even if you knew it ALL, each body is different. You have to do it in partnership with your bod, based on what it tells you, not what you tell IT. See? It's a relationship, between body and brain. Not a smarmy self-esteem thing, but a partnership between two halves of a whole that, right now, are divided somewhat from one another. You have to learn how to know when your body is telling you someting smart or something dumb and stuck from the past.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 12:31 AM

Good words! I am listening.

I went to the doctor today. I am cleared for take off. Blood pressure is 130/90. Not off the chart but not good either. Their scales only go up to 350 so I don't have a clue how much I weigh. 350+ I guess. Blood tests are ongoing.

I have to go up to KMart this evening to get my prescriptions filled. I will stop by a book store to find a copy of the Atkins diet. I'd like to evaluate it, read about it, and see what it holds before I commit.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mack/misophist
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 01:02 AM

It's no fun, but it's do-able. A year ago I weighed 342 lbs. Right now, I weigh 258.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: open mike
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 10:37 AM

slim fast might help...
try it sometimes instead of a meal.
they make "candy bars" too.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 10:53 AM

There are several variations on the atkins diet - Carb-addicts; Protien Power, etc.

Various methods suit various people better. The last couple years I have been shrinking - slowly - but I am shrinking rather then expanding.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST,sinsull
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 11:27 AM

If you want to keep track of the WHOLE picture, use a ribbo and take some measurements. Cut it to the measurement ans tack it somewhere as a reminder. Once a month (NOT MORE OFTEN) wrap it around yourself and cut off the excess. Burn it if you like or tack that on the refrigerator.
SINS, home Friday

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 03:24 PM

good idea about the ribbon...Also, can you next time you go to the doctor, and hopefully you go frequently for blood tests etc..can you ask to have your insulin checked. It is really important to do this and they probably will hem and haw and say it is not necessary and they can't etc...but try anyway. You then compare that number to your blood sugar number and you get an idea of how insulin resistant you are...and essentially probably perhaps what stage of diabetes you are in...and the thinking is coming around that the process of packing on weight and being diabetic is one and the same..it just take 20 years of being overweight for it to show up in the blood.... mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 04:31 PM

Hey Brett. Congratulation on taking the first step. That is usually the hardest.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 06:26 PM

I love the ribbon idea. I wonder if my refrigerator is tall enough?

I found the Atkins book. I would think by now it would be available in paperback. I'd have gone shopping for it but our choices are limited here on Guam. I'll start reading tonight. I hope it's palatable...

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Dani
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 08:47 PM

For getting moving IN the house, I highly recommend Susan Powter's exercise video. She's got more than one (Trailer Park Yoga?) but the old one I have was very encouraging to someone unaccustomed to exercise! I'm not one to do videos or classes, but I found this in a thrift shop, watched and cracked up. Then I exercised. She's completely insane, but her video and books are full of common sense about food and fat and bodies and diet and exercise. If you PM me your address, I'd be happy to send them on to you!

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Amos
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 09:01 PM

I have lost ten pounds!! Yay!!!!!

The secret is eating less; and, avoiding bread. Simple, but it worked for me. Oh, and long walks.

A

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: JennyO
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 10:32 PM

Hi Brett. Congratulations on taking the first step. I need to do something too, but I realised that I can't do it alone here as John and I cook for each other and it would be hard unless we both do it together. So we have started in a small way by cutting down on the sugar in our tea, and by having smaller helpings. Still a long way to go though. He likes desserts and I never used to bother with them. The icecream last night probably was not a good idea.

I seem to be especially sensitive to carbohydrates - particularly potatoes, bread and things like that. The most successful diet I ever went on was called the 60 gram diet (60 grams of carbohydrate a day). I suspect it would be similar to Atkins. I don't have a very sweet tooth (in that I don't go crazy about chocolate, sweets, biscuits and cakes), so it suited me a lot. However after a while, I found myself rather uncharacteristically craving sweets because I was eating so little that was sweet. I used an artificial sweetener, which I would not do now, having read some pretty awful things about them. Also I use a soft butter and canola spread now, having read some equally grisly things about the making of margarine.

So this time around I will go more natural, but reduce quantities. I find it hard to get excited about brown bread, brown rice and their ilk, so that is a problem. I think I will get the Atkins book and read it for a start anyway.

As for exercise, John reckons after seeing me out digging in the garden that I am already getting lots of exercise, but I don't think it's enough or often enough. The garden's benefitting anyway. I've weeded the jungle out the front now, and put in some colourful flowers here and there - more vegies and a lemon tree out the back too.

We have talked about swimming at the local pool fairly regularly. I like walking around and looking at the scenery, and that is at least something moderately useful, but not the power walking thing. It's getting pretty hot here, and I am not a great fan of getting hot and sweaty, although I know I will be getting that way at Woodford. I think swimming, or Susan's exercises in the water would be a good choice for you Brett, and for me too. Good luck!

Jenny

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 10:53 PM

Brett, IMO, you lose weight "in your head" first. What I mean is...once you make up your mind to do it -- YOU WILL! But the key is to not gain it back a year later! So keep us informed, and we'll kick your #$%^ when you start gaining again.

I've watched lots of friends who have a heart bypass, then go on a diet and exercise kick and lose weight and get fit. Then a year later it creeps back because they never really change their eating and exercise habits permanently.

I'm guilty too, just in moderation, like most of my life! I lost 20 pounds two years ago, then gained 10 back. The key for me is Weight Watchers and exercise. I don't like Atkins because I crave sweets. And I seem to crave bread, crackers and butter when I'm dieting.

You WILL lose weight, and you WILL feel good.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Peg
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 10:45 AM

The books of Lendon Smith have some greatadvice on food. Heis a   pediatrician and nutritionist. Two I haveread areFeed Yourself Right and The Low Stress Diet. Try a used bookstore or www.half.com. He talks about how eating habits can lead to all sorts of disease and discomfort, not just overweight-some acue symptoms, some gradual or chronic. Based on his advice I started taking calcium supplements and they eased a lot   if the sympotoms of stress I was experiencing (insomnia, tension headaches, eyelid muscles twitching, etc.)

He speaks of his own struggles with food sensitivities etc. Says when he stopped eating cookies everyday many annoying symptoms disappeared. He also says if he ate a sandwich every day he'd gain ten pounds in a week...but he does enjoy bread once in a while. He also believes every individual has to find the food that works for them. Ethnic background can be a good indicator. Eat what your ancestors are known for. In the case of Mediterranean and Asian diets, this can be very healthful and very tasty!

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 01:57 PM

So I guess it's Guiness and potatoes for me...I can live with that.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 02:15 PM

Lendon Smith's work is reflected and extended by others. My adrenal/inflammation/stress recovery "formula" of supplements incorporates this, with source URLs for deeper understanding.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 03:26 PM

My weight was bouncing around for most of the decade of the 1990s, and I finally realized it was caused by my estrogen level (I used to get estrogen-rich cysts on my ovaries, we found out through sonograms). Probably not Brett's problem. :)

After cancer surgery in fall of 2000 I started hormone replacement therapy (HRT) but quickly removed myself from the horse-estrogen and synthetics to use bio-identical formularies. I felt better and my weight stablized. I gained some weight this summer following foot surgery, and with that weight gain I was producing more of my own estrogen (in the fat cells). To counter this I've stretched out my HRT from once a day to one every 36 hours. The munchies are no longer a problem and with increased exercise I should have a better shot at losing the 20 pounds I'd like to lose.

In my teens I tried a low-carb diet (it also featured a 60-gram carbohydrate restriction) and I lost weight. I like the looks of the Zone diets, they have a nice balance. Perrecone (sp?) has some good ideas about diet also (he's on PBS every pledge season).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: skarpi
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 03:31 PM

Neamanson , It´s all about the food you are eating and the drinks you are drinking . 70-80 % is food change the rest is training and that you believe in you self. I been there done that. First go to a fitness
trainer or a doctor and let tell you about you bloodpresure, you r kolesterol in your blood and what you training pulse shuld be.
Talk to someone who know about food changes it´s inportand you do
that. I would like to know what you eat , how many times in one day you eat, how long are between your meals what do you drink ?.
Do you smoke drink alcahol? If you can write down one day what you eat you should do that, you will be suprise what you are doing to your self, write everything down don´t leave anything don´t fool your self thats bad , it will only come back to you worse than ever.
Istartedwiththree woman 15th of September 2003 , they have lost
11kg each In three months, I changed the food and we walk two time in every week from 5 to 10 km . They write down all days of the week
and i go over every paper once a week , It´s all about food that
we eat, good thing comes in slow times give the body time to change
and you will feel better In all ways.
You´ll get better health , your ego goes up you feel secured and your " SEX LIFE " gets better oh boy and girls. I lost 52 kg .
Whats your gol?
All the best Skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 06:55 PM

First off you should know I have a real problem with commercials and advertising. I hate it. On the rare occasions when I watch a commercial TV show I mute the damned things and try to do something else, play my guitar, do dishes, or something productive.

Having said that, last night I tried to read the Atkins book. It is written like a commercial for itself. I expected this. All the self help books are written that way. However, it makes for heavy reading, trying to plow through all the LOOK-AT-ME-I'M-THE-BEST to glean the real message underlying all that.

To complicate the issue the book I bought is not the original Atkins diet book but a book on maintaining after weight loss. Grrr.

As for writing down all the incoming food, I have tried that several times in the past. I cannot seem to be consistent with it. I manage to record a meal or two, a few snacks and then I eat something and the list is not near at hand. Next thing I know I'm trying to remember what I ate over the last few days. I think it's easier for women because most of them lug around a purse full of handy things. My pockets aren't big enough and any paper I put in there gets beat to hell.

Grumble, Grumble, Gripe, Gripe...

I know, these are all excuses. Yesterday I was a bad boy, I ate two candy bars. Supper was two bowls of cereal and some peanut butter toast. I used to cook when I had kids to feed. Now I just graze on whatever is easy to prepare. The easier the better.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Peg
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 01:00 AM

Just do it.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: JulieF
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 04:44 AM

Am working on this myself - Now the lightest I have been for 10 years ( although that's not necessarily saying a lot)

What works for me

Changing the type of carbs I eat - lots of porridge & wholewheat bread
Lots and lots of fruit and veg
Fish especially salmon
trying to avoid crisps ( funnily enough chocolate is not too much of a problem)

Going to the gym (because its on the way home and I wouldn't exercise when I get home and sit down)


All the best
Julie

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 07:31 AM

Brett

"Yesterday I was a bad boy, I ate two candy bars."

The fact that you did something that you feel/know was not good for you does not make you "bad" - you just did something that was not in your best interests.

Maybe you might need to consider changing words & thoughts as well as habits.

Some of us are good at putting ourselves down, we don't need another person to do it. "If someone treated my the way I treat myself, I'd sue!" - dunno who said that, but I like it & try remember it when I get negative.

sandra (getting off soapbox)

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Kim C
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 01:09 PM

Ah, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

You have already made the decision. No one said it's going to be easy from this point on. It probably won't be. Advertising likes to make you believe you can lose a lot of weight in a short period of time - if you do it RIGHT, it'll take awhile. Be patient with yourself. Every little thing you do to achieve the goal is helpful.

You can do it.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 01:17 PM

the bowls of cereal might have been worse for you than the candy bars..depends on what kind of candy it was. If you are insulin resistant, as many, if not most, if not almost all (I don't know) overweight people are..as I am...that cereal and bread is the worst thing you can do..if it is refined, as most are..but even ground up whole grains aren't that great for some. You must find out more aobut your personal metabolic needs. mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Amos
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 02:34 PM

Well, how about today, then, Brett? What's the plan? Let it slide? Or what?

Love,

A

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: freda underhill
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 08:48 PM

All that is luscious will come hither,
But not all those who nibble are lost;
The large that are strong do not dither,
Deep change is not touched by the frosty fruits.
From the wishes a desire shall be woken,
A delight from the muscles shall spring;
Renewed shall be the young blade that has eaten,
The waistless again shall be King.

(with apologies to Bilbo..)

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king. .............

best wishes & dishes - freda

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 13 Dec 03 - 09:10 PM

LOL! That is great Freda.

"The large that are strong do not dither,"

Unfortunately I am still dithering...

"Maybe you might need to consider changing words & thoughts as well as habits."

Well, Sandra, that is why I am seeing the shrink. I have a bit of a self esteem problem. People say nice things to me but I cannot say them to myself.

As for the cereal, I have been eating a lot of that. If I could find an alternative that is as easy to prepare I would jump on it.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Peg
Date: 14 Dec 03 - 01:25 AM

It's not going to be easy. That's the whole point. You knew that   when you started this thread. It's going to be bloody difficult. That's why you can count on your friends to help you get through it. But you have to want to succeed, and you have to be willing to put some effort into it. Making excuses is just not going to work. If it were easy everyone would be doing it and no one would be overweight.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 14 Dec 03 - 04:17 AM

I know. And the hardest thing is starting. That's why I started this thread. I thought I could push myself into the right frame of mind.

On the good side this has been a very active weekend. Yesterday I spent most of the day helping to free a log from a pile of culch and today I took a walk in the boonies. In between I did a lot of moving around. My food intake was not too bad either. I went to a party this afternoon and managed to keep to the lighter side for many things. This was a McCulture party so I felt comfortable saying no.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Peg
Date: 14 Dec 03 - 11:35 AM

good! now just keep remembering why you're doing this; to feel better and be healthier and improve your life. Don't beat yourself up if you slide once in a while, but don't let yourself slide just because you're having a bad day or feeling lazy, either.
This is about changing your life. That means changing your lifestyle.   Not making excuses like it's too much work or I don't like vegetables.
While cereal for dinner may not be too terrible (depends what kind of cereal; hot oatmeal, good; fatty, sugary granola, bad), you need fresh healthy foods to get your body craving the nutrients it probably is in desperate need of. Learn some basics of cooking. You may find you enjoy it. Anyone can learn to broil fish or make a salad or steam some broccoli. Anyone can slap a veggie burger in the pan or boil an egg. Listen to music while you're cooking your nice healthy meal.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Dec 03 - 06:47 PM

One of the hardest things to do can be to make friends with the food(s) you SHOULD eat (which is very individual), and eat a lot of it.

Another hard thing is to think of yourself as worth taking care of, and make the time to shop and cook and clean up the kitchen as if taking care of a much-loved guest. (A trick around that is to cook for friends a lot.)

Another one is eating enough to support your actual size and activity level-- and have people look at you and see only the quantity of food, not the activity level or the composition of the food.

The best advice I got, and still hard to follow, is eat like a diabetic. Not only many small meals, but also being especially sure to include the right mix of:

<> fast-burn carbs (most fruits/veg/potatoes/pasta),
<> med.-speed-burning carbs (fibrous fruits/ veg, whole grains),
<> protein (lowfat meat/milk/cheese/legumes),

... in every meal or sbnack. That's what keeps the blood sugar and insulin from roller-coastering, and keeps the appetite appropriate for the activity level, feeds the muslce, and keeps the cravings down.

~S~

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Sweetfia
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 07:57 AM

Easy, don't eat crap, cut down on the beer and do some exercise. Join a gym, cause even if you dont do awt you can still spy on all the fit guys! hehe

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 02:11 AM

I have no interest in guys, fit or otherwise. Where others may be gay (sexually) I am not. So I will look at the women if you don't mind.

On the good side: I have been doing some minor exercises i the mornings. I am up to 60 crunches; 20 leg lifts while on my back; 25 side leg lifts and 20 modified push ups. I also do some stretches. It's a slow process.

On the bad side: This morning one of the officers brought in a bunch of huge cinnamon buns and then someone brought in a cookie cake for a birthday. Sigh, I was weak.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 07:25 AM

Houston, we have a problem.

I have been reading in the Atkins book. I found the right one today. Apparently blood pressure medication and antidepressants interfere with the diet. I take both. Anyone know anything about it?

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 07:47 AM

Brett, maybe your Doctor can help you there. Our doctors here can get literature about healthy eating from the Health Dept or Dieticians/Nutritionists associations. CSIRO (Commonwealth Scientific & Industrial Research Organisation) has recently published their latest research on diet & nutritious eating. I think their website is www.csiro.au

In the mean time there is lots of sensible advice in this thread about good nutritious foods that are part of normal diet (= eating). Do the best you can with these foods & keep up the exercise.

love from sandra

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 08:14 AM

One of my concerns about Atkins is that you throw the whole weight loss process off especially in the beginning with one moment of weakness.

With the holidays upon us there will be an ever increasing flow of cookies, cakes, candies, etc thru Jan 1. How about cutting back on calories for now and continuing the exercise. Simple formula: multiply your current weight by 13. This is the number of calories it takes to maintain your current weight. Now take your goal weight (Short term goal, not the huge number) and multiply that by 13. This is the number of calories you need to achieve that weight.

It will be a high number, but any day you stick to that number of calories OR consume less, you are a day closer to your goal. And it means that you can include some treats in your plan without feeling like a failure.

Come Jan. 1, when the whole world starts Atkins (New Year's Resolution #1) you can join them with a better chance of not being sidetracked.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: freda underhill
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 08:33 AM

these websites have info about atkins and blood pressure or atkins and health issues.

http://www.arizonaweb.org/blood-pressure-and-the-atkins-diet/blood-pressure-and-the-atkins-diet.html

http://www.momsview.com/discus/messages/2514/14655.htmlsubject area.

http://www.lemmo.com/side_navi/news/news.html

http://atkins.com/Archive/2001/12/21-394348.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3197627.stm

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Peg
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 11:20 AM

Forget Atkins if your medication will interfere. But give some thought to its principles. A very similar diet plan without   the risks is what is being called the "paleolithic" or "caveman" diet. Plenty of lean meat and fish, eggs, nuts, plenty of fresh green vegatables, plenty of fresh fruit. Some whole grains. NO processed foods, NO sugar. No bread! The key is to cut down on processed carbohydrates, which just provide empty calories and very little fiber. You can "modernize" it a bit and include some dairy products if you are not sensitive to them (most people who crave cheese evey day should not eat it). This is also sound food combining which helps strengthen the digestive system (eliminate heartburn, gas, bowel difficulties) and aid weight loss.
A typical day:
Breakfast:
fresh fruit, eggs
   snack: fresh fruit, raw nuts
lunch:
lean fish or chicken, green salad,   steamed veggies
   snack: cube of cheese, raw veggies
dinner:
small amount of lean beef, lamb, or chicken
fresh vegetable soup
salad or steamed veggies
   snack; fresh fruit

You will note there area lot of vegetables. You say you don't like them. But they are the cornerstone of a healthy diet and provide necessary vitamins, minerals and fiber. You will find it difficult   to lose weight until you make these fresh foods an important part of your diet. They are what humans are meant to eat, along with lean meats and fresh fruit. African and Asian peoples who eat lots of fresh green vegetables and few dairy products or fatty meatshave virtually no heart disease, obesity, tooth decay or cancer among their populations. Prehistoric men and women died from saber tooth tiger attacks, exposure, or eating unknown mushrooms. Maybe a bit    of murder and falls from cliffs. Not diabetes or coronary occlusion or colon cancer. Think about it.

Seems to me your sweet tooth is your weakness. Sugar makes you fatter than eating butter does because of how it is converted in the body. The body can't use it, it screws up your insulin production, gives you unstable high-low blood sugar cravings etc.
Sugar consumption has also been linked to everything from diabetes to attention-deficit disorder to irritability to mental illness to psychosis. It is a very dense food, it causes tooth decay and it provides absolutely nothing ther body needs.
I gave a talk recently on how to control sweet tooth cravings. My main advice was to eat a healthy whole food diet which can eliminate cravings for unwholesome foods. Also; the sweet tooth tends to go away if one can stay away from sugar for two weeks. After that the daily cravings subside to nothing and the sweet taste is "forgotten" by the mouth somehow. Try it. Two weeks. When you're tempted, eat a small cube of cheese, or an apple.

One of the worst things to do is eat sugary foods on an empty stomach. Coffee and sweets in the morning are a recipe for disaster, making the blood sugar shoot so high so quickly and then crash so suddenly, you're in for an entire day of bad cravings plus probably feeling like crap.

This is one area where the Atkins principles are sound; by eating plenty of protein you keep the blood sugar steady. It needn't all be fatty meat. Some raw nuts are very nutritious and very good for   you (almonds, filberts, pecans, sunflower seeds and walnute; not peanuts or cashews). RAW, not roasted and salted.

You need to start saying NO to these sweet tempting foods. Twice this week you have called yourself "bad" and "weak" when giving in to eating them. That is the wrong attitude. Think of it this way: these foods are not ealthy for me, and I am trying to become a healthier person. I need to make choices to eat healthy food EVERY DAY.

Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Amos
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 02:55 PM

You can do this, pal.

A

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 05:19 PM

How many times this week have you said "No" to sweet treats or overeating? And you are exercising.

Good Boy!

Feel as if I am talking to a dog.
Brett - first rule: Be kind to yourself. If I told you that I had a whole pizza for dinner, would you snap at me that I have no will power and that I am bad? Of course not. Common sense (and maybe a little fear).

Picture yourself at the 2004 Getaway in tight jeans and a medium shirt. Now step away from the cake.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 06:19 PM

Step away from the cake and no one will get hurt! Yes ma'am.

You know, I read through all of this and it all makes such good sense. Then I get out there into the real world and habit takes over. I've got to get a grip on this but it means abandoning a whole range of comfort foods just when I need them most.

But I will do this thing. I must do this thing.

By the by, one reason for my need for comfort foods, and anything else that will help me feel better about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, is that I have just been tapped as the team leader for the whole BOS contract. Currently our office is set up with the BOS split between two teams. In the upcoming reorganization that will all go under one team leader, me. The contract is worth about $68,000,000 a year.

And before you congratulate me on being chosen you should know it is NOT a promotion and I was NOT the first choice. However, the boss thinks I am capable I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 06:42 PM

Waiddaminnit-- You do NOT have to fight those cravings right now, especially as a FIRST step.

For now, if you just focus on eating the stuff that is GOOD for you, AND upping the exercise, you will be making HUGE strides. THEN you can start cutting back on the comfort foods, I promise. You will be feeling better from the good tings, and you will not need them so much. Remember, you are in this for the long haul! There is no imminent crisis!

Build the winning habits firt and THEN stop the ones that don't fit the new you.

You're in training, not hell! Keep that in mind!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Amos
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 07:10 PM

VIVE LA DIFFERENCE!~~



A

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 07:53 PM

You must be making a reasonable salary. Do they have any Chinese-type restaurants, or native meals, that consist of meats and vegetables and oils only? Skip the rice if you can, or cut way back on it. Eat out regularly if you can find a place that has the food you need. If you are a protein type, and you will know because you will feel much better, lose weight, and your tests will improve, if you follow one of the low-fat, moderate protein and fat diets (with all the green vegetables you can eat)..you won't need to cut way back on calories and you won't crave starches. The overload of insulin makes you crave starches. Get the insulin under control and the cravings go away. This works for some people, not all. If you try a low-carb (with good fats and proteins..does not mean low fat) plan and feel wretched and don't lose weight and triglycerides etc. go up, you are on the wrong plan for your body. Read up on insulin resistence..you most likelly have it..you have described several of the components of it..Dr. Raven of Stanford U. has written a lot about it and is on Google...Also read up on the wonders of macademia nuts and coconut oil...read Dr. Mary Enig, noted biochemist and fat researcher. I bet you can get those there.

Skip the cereal for supper. Eat Chinese or make a big salad with vegetables, meat, cheese, olive oil and apple cider vinegar or lemon.

With all this advice, you would think I would have lost the weight I need to. I am stable, thank heavens, and when I really stick to the Atkins or similar plan, I can lose weight. The diet itself is not difficult for me, except for breakfast, but the logistics of planning, cooking, transporting food and storing it or cooking it at work reduce my compliance. One thing I read, and I know it to be true, is to have someone else do the cooking for you. Eat out, eat on base, hire a cook if you can, share cooking with friends, or whatever. Don't go home hungry to only cold cereal. Get a George Foreman grill too..they are great...add vegetables and there you go.
Also get a blood glucose monitor..they aren't that much. Get your insulin level checked, and compare to blood sugar. Measure your own response to foods..you don't need to use numbers that were averaged over lots of people with different body types than you. If you respond sharply to things like white bread, knock it out of your diet. Consult with doctors about things like fruits. Fruit juice is not recommended if you have insulin problems. Look at the ratio. More later. Also subscribe to Dr. Mercola's web site...
mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 11:11 PM

I don't believe I have a glucose problem. Last year, in conjunction with my physical I had a sugar shock test. They made me drink a vast quantity of very high sugar orange drink and then took regular blood samples over a four hour period. I passed with flying colors. They were trying to nail down the reason for some symptoms I was experiencing.

OK, I am not in hell but I am in training. But no more cereal for supper. Hmmm, I guess I need to re-evaluate my relationship with various veggies. I need to go to the grocery store this afternoon.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 07:30 AM

Veggies are yummy - I can't understand why a kid would need to hide broccoli in a glass of milk (an extract from my favourite Wisdom of Kids internet joke thingy).

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: harpgirl
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 08:27 AM

I have no advice for you, Brett. I have been working on the same ten pounds for six month. My nutritionist loves me at forty bucks a pound!
But with all the extra exercise, everything works better, if you catch my drift! Besides, I've always like big men much more. You look great to me!

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 09:30 AM

Having an insulin problem is different from having a glucose problem and you might want to Google around on it to see what others here have been referring to, in more detail.

The problem is not what the blood sugar does-- it's being insulin resistant (phys thing) or having insulin spikes because of the eating patterns (habit thing). There are a variety of Glucose Tolerance Tests and not all of them catch the insulin problems. GTTs also only catch what you present at the time of the test. Docs are notorious for simplistic testing and diagnosis. Even good ones-- the system doesn't leave them time for much else.

Whatever, the fix is the same, tho you can refine the fix if you get accurate testing (I think there is a sensitive saliva test as well as a sensitive urine test as home kits). The fix is to eat what you should eat, and at least space out during the day anything that will spike insulin OR blood sugar.... the thing to do as I said earlier is be sure to include at least 2 oz. of protein with every snack; even if it's just some milk or yogurt you will be slowing down the spikes and smoothing them out. Build that habit and the rest will follow, not without some work but with a much greater chance of success.

I think you need to pile up some successes, and doing that depends on how you define the goals. I know that concrete thinking is much easier for you-- I remember ALL our talks. So I would suggest for now a goal for you-- breakfast as it should be, and as large or small as you like as long as the proportions of protein/carb are right and the carbs are a mix of fastburn and slowburn. I can;t offer specifi food choices because it has to be food you LIKE and will EAT.

Don't like brekky? Chicken soup is wonderful brekky. For while I simply made myself a second plate of dinner (smaller) and saved it for next day's brekky.

Organize your day around being sure you have brekky items on hand and eat them! Try for 50% compliance the first week-- eating the right thing half the days, or eating half of the right things, all of the days, or a mix that is realistic. Don't try for 100% on anything, it's a recipe for failure and back to the binge/comfort cycle. Believe me, 50% will be hard enough!

Can't afford a nutritionist or personal trainer? Use the free tools at Global Heath & Fitness: COMPLETE ONLINE FITNESS RESOURCES They have a membership program with additional helps, but so far I have not neeeded to lay out any $$ and they do have good free tools. They especially have great motivation tools. Add to your brekky goal the goal of checking out that site and seeing what it might offer.

Train yourself how to succeed, and be as easy on yourself as you would be on..... me! :~) You can get harder on yoursef as you earn the successes!

Remember, if I can do it, you can!

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Midchuck
Date: 18 Dec 03 - 09:25 AM

I have been shoveling snow continuously for a week. If I don't turn out to be down a pound or two, when the smoke clears, I'll have one of my famous tantrums.

On the other hand, Kris reacts to being snowed in by making pie and/or cookies, so I'd probly better warm up for the tantrum now.

P.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Peg
Date: 18 Dec 03 - 09:39 AM

Hey Peter; how about shovelling snow WHILE you're eating the cookies?

This year's holiday party is a cookie swap.(You bring a couple dozen homemade holiday cookies, and get to take home a mixed platter). I am usually so sick of sweets after baking that I don't bother to eatany. Plus cleaning the house to get ready for guests is great exercise! we will be snow-and rain-free for at least the next week so can get some walking in...at least the roof has not caved in yet...

winter is a tough time to lose weight but it can be done.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 18 Dec 03 - 09:53 AM

yeah - our 'Health and Wellness' committee hosted a "dessert bar" yesterday - cakes, cookies, cheesecake, everything frosted, syruped and sugared to death!

They didn't even have any fresh fruit or fruit salad! Or even a cheese tray!

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Peg
Date: 18 Dec 03 - 10:00 AM

wow, that's crazy! MMario, what does this committe actually do to help people?
you know, when I worked in office environments I noticed this weird entropic phenomenon around the holidays...everyone complained they were gaining weight, but every day there seemed to be ridiculous amounts of sweets and treats everywhere, plus parties and lunches etc. No wonder peoples' will power is weak...and gyms see   increased enrollment at the holidays...

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 18 Dec 03 - 10:05 AM

mostly the 'Health and Wellness' committee tends to do "morale building' (and annoying) activities - such as the dessert bar, a Halloween costume contest, "skits" for the annual meeting.

If they stopped - MY morale would go up! (and my blood pressure would drop)

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 07:41 AM

our Office Health & Safety (OHAS) folks started by organising a 30 minute walk at lunch, now they run 2 classes each of Yoga & Pilates.

We have also had lunchtime soccer & running groups for years as our agency participates in a Corporate Cup, a competition for Government agencies & businesses.

They have also arranged talks by health educators & professionals in the past.

sandra (who avoids all physical activities! Like Brett I have sore bits & arthritic bits that hurt like hell if I do too much. It's a good excuse.)

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 09:22 PM

Well, if that don't take the cake! My phone has been cut off for non payment of the bill! I am cut off from the internet and have to come into the office to get access. What a way to spend a Sunday morning.

Anyway, you all should know I am doing better now and that bodes well for the weight loss scheme. I am now trying to watch what it is I am eating so I can modify my behavior. That may not work very well but it is a start. At least I got my kitchen cleaned up and rearranged my living room. That doesn't sound like much but it is pretty good for me. I have some shopping to do and then I will go cook up a nice pot of corn chowder for the office Christmas party on Tuesday.

I appreciate all the good advice you have posted. I am working through it, sifting for the best weight loss strategy I can construct. It will include swimming, proper low carb diet, and riding my bike. Walking is out but the bike will do as a substitute.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Amos
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 09:34 PM

Attaboy!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 08:26 PM

Hey Brett!


21 WAYS TO RELIEVE INTERNAL STRESS

BEGINNER'S (OR RE-BEGINNER'S) GUIDE TO GETTING FIT

There's No Such Thing as Cheating


If I can do it, you can! (Do you believe I can do it?)

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 09:06 PM

Believing others can do things has never been a problem with me. I believe YOU can do it. I have my doubts about myself. That soesn't stop me from trying but it does interfere with success.

I have copied of those articles and will read them when I get home.

I heard the other day that fully 1/3 of Americans are obese. I guess I have plenty of company.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 09:25 PM

baked goods made with trans fats are probably the worst thing you could do. Maybe start with those things....mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 10:42 PM

Well, I don't always believe I can do it either... I keep moving forward though, and I know, logically, I can do it, and thus, logically, that you can, too. And if you believe I can-- why shouldn't you be able to, also?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 09:05 AM

That's one of the reasons I pay a shrink....

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 09:24 AM

I'll tell you the best ever motivation - a consultant cardiac surgeon saying 'diet,or die before you hit 50'.

Threads on here saying how fat my arse is just made me eat more chocolate. A consultant suggesting if I don't lose a few extra pounds, I might not reach my half century was by far the biggest incentive.

I hope you are making some progress, even if it's just in your attitude to food and rethinking some menus.

So what if you ate a candy bar yesterday.... celebrate that you didn't eat one today as well.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 09:27 AM

Well, it occurred to me that if I look at my own situation, there is one tiny but powerful fact that bears a closer look. And that is, whether I believe it or not, each day since I embarked on this life-saving program, there has been something I tried and found I COULD DO. Most if not all of them were tiny, accidentally-discovered things I had no idea would have profound implications; most if not all were things that went against the prevailing wisdom; most if not all were counter-intuitive; most if not all flouted medical personnel's urgent imperatives.

So what I am thinking now is that what matters is the HINDSIGHT-- noticing the vast number of things I had thought I could not do, that it turned out I had actually DONE. And that's what I choose to look to for my continuing success-- remembering to keep noticing that, and that if I do that, I can keep learning what does actually work, and having a long enough string of those will result in my achieving much more than I now think I can.

Learning "I can" as a new part of my deepest operational beliefs will depend on learning HOW I already HAVE DONE. On the level of the smallest details, learned in practical applications. THEN I will have enough of a reality base for "I can" to operate from it, eventually.

This morning I woke up with a headache all over my body-- a now-familiar, inadvertent workout result. This has happened before; I think I have written about it. Well, on one morning like that long ago, I accidentally discovered how to break the rigor mortis and get moving, and I found out when I did that-- it actually carries the pain away. Every nerve is screaming, "hold still!" But stopping it requires over-riding that, so I take a deep breath and go for it. So this AM I was up making Hardi's coffee and thawing what I should eat later. Lying in bed in agony a few minutes earlier, I would not have quickly predicted I would now be sitting here at the puder even trying to make sense. Every internal tape says, "You can't, and you better not try!" But my SENSE says, "You have done this now hundreds of times. You WILL be able to do all those things today that you wanted to do. You'll see!" It wasn't a matter of self-esteem, or loving myself enough, or re-parenting myself, or any of that abstract stuff! It was concrete-- having had some experience and noticing it.

So I would invite you to consider the premise that you are embarking not so much on a new challenge, but on a new learning laboratory. "How Brett actually works." Writing a new owner's manual. You probably already have some things you know, that you could put in it. You have shared with me about other areas of your life where you decided change was necessary, and change occurred. What do you already know about how you tick, in areas where you have had some success? Throw out everything else, and start from there, and build your program around that!

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 11:28 AM

On Syndrome X and insulin resistance:

Q: Which lifestyle changes are most important?

A: The most powerful are how much you weigh and how fit you are. If you're insulin-resistant and over-weight and you lose weight, you become less insulin-resistant. And you stay that way as long as you keep the weight off. The average over-weight person [can] benefit [as regards insulin] from losing [even] ten or 15 pounds.

Whether or not you lose weight, exercise also makes you less insulin-resistant. But if you stop exercising, you lose the benefit. So it's relatively transitory compared to the benefit of weight loss.

Q: What kind of diet is best for people with Syndrome X?

A: Not a high-carbohydrate diet, because you have to secrete more insulin to handle the carbs if you're insulin-resistant. I recommend limiting carbohydrates to 45 percent of calories. So if you're eating a 2,000-calorie diet, that's 225 grams of carbohydrate a day.
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m0813/2_27/60051349/p4/article.jhtml


On the other hand, from another site:

There is concern that a diet emphasizing carbohydrates will exacerbate Syndrome X in certain insulin resistant people. Syndrome X, a term coined by Gerald Reaven, M.D. of Stanford University, is used to describe a group of heart disease risk factors that include hypertension and lipid abnormalities (high triglycerides and low HDL levels). However, according to Xavier Pi-Sunyer, M.D., an obesity expert at St. Luke's Roosevelt Hospital Center in New York, very few insulin-resistant people react to high carbohydrate diets with signs suggestive of Syndrome X.

Reduction of excess weight and increased physical activity are more important in the treatment of insulin-resistance than the dietary percentage of carbohydrate or fat. Exercise and weight loss reduce triglycerides, increase HDL cholesterol, and lower blood pressure. In addition, both weight loss and exercise independently increase insulin sensitivity.

Weight loss allows the cells to more easily "recognize" insulin so that less insulin is required. Regular physical activity is important because muscle cells are the biggest users of insulin. Decreasing the muscle's insulin requirements through exercise cuts down on insulin resistance to a large extent. This means that insulin can bind more easily to the cell receptors and is more effective in promoting glucose uptake.
http://www.cruciblefitness.com/nutrition/etips/carbo-ba.htm


One more:

Question: I have been recently diagnosed as insulin resistant. I have been told it is a precurser to diabetes. Though it doesn't mean I have it or will get it. I have been told to cut back on sugar and carbs, but other than that, I have had no help at all in learning what I can eat.

I NEED HELP. I want to be healthy I just don't know what to do. I don't have alot of money to spend I make just a little over 10 thousand a year... lol. I am going crazy. I don't know if I should eat like a diabetic or what. Any books or web sites or tips would be heaven sent.

Answer: You are at a point where you must decide if you are going to take control your health, or are you going to let your health take control of you. If you continue to eat the way you have been, your health can deteriorate to the point where you will be required to have a very restrictive diet. You need to make a choice and stop making excuses about why you do not eat healthy. You know what you need to do; it seems to me that you just do not want to do it. However, if you don't make a change for the better now, your body will force you to down the road.

First, if you have a hard time eating something for breakfast, then drink something. Liquid nutrients are easy to consume, digest and prepare. You can either buy a powder to make a shake, or get a pre-made breakfast drink. This way you can drink your breakfast on your way to work or school and not have the excuse that you "do not have time for breakfast". Many of these products can be found at regular drug stores or supermarkets, like soy protein powders, "Slim-Fast" and "Carnation Instant Breakfast" powders or ready-made shakes in a can. You need to get into the habit of putting something in your stomach in the morning to rev up your engines and get your metabolism in gear (this is your calorie burning regulator).

Numerous studies have confirmed that skipping breakfast will make you gain weight. Your body has not eaten for at least 8-10 hours, and because your body detects that there is no food available, it will slow down your metabolism to conserve energy and prevent starvation. Because your stomach has been empty all night and most of the morning, when you do eat something for lunch, you will be more apt to gravitate to foods that are high in fat and sugar. Your body at this point is craving instant calories.

Secondly, stop buying foods that you don't eat. Not only is this a waste of money and resources, it does not make you any healthier by siting in your refrigerator rotting. Instead of buying veggies and not having the time or energy to prepare a salad, get the pre-washed and pre-cut salad mixes. Then all you need to do is put it on a plate and add some salad dressing. Cut up some carrot sticks and keep them handy in the refrigerator at home to nibble on, or take them with you and chew on one every couple of hours at work or school. When ordering from a restaurant or "fast food joint", order a salad with the dressing on the side.

Thirdly, try to get into soups. Soups are high in easy to assimilate nutrients and water. By having soup before your meals, you will feel full more quickly and end up consuming less calories. You will not feel deprived because of this full sensation. If you can't have soup, drink a glass of water before you eat your lunch and dinner, and another glass during your meal.

Finally, you need to adjust your activity level. Our weight is a balance between the calories you take in and the ones you burn up. If you are experiencing weight gain, it means that you are not burning up all the calories that you take in during the day. A few changes in your diet and lifestyle are all that you need to obtain optimal health and weight.

Make a commitment to yourself to eat a variety of healthy foods, and not just buy them. Take the stairs instead of the elevator; park your car farther away from the entrance of the building you are going into; take brakes at work and walk around the office every couple of hours; do a squat to pick things up instead of just bending over, and try to do stretches before you go to sleep. All these small changes in your lifestyle will over time add up to great health benefits. You can prevent the onset of diabetes if you are really committed to being healthy. You just need to motivate yourself, stick to your decision to be healthy and keep a positive attitude.
http://www.geocities.com/healthyadvice/Health-Q9.html


What do these all have in common? Exercise, and eating enough. I used to look for the perfect nutrition program, and the most accurate physiological info. (Some other articles suggested adding chromium and I think magnesium, but if I eat what I know I should, I will get those too.) Now I have learned that in the end, it's gonna be the exercise, and remembering to eat when I need to and what I need to eat.   Along the way I ALSO learn about the physiology and nutrition, but MORE important, will I or will I not make that workout today? Some days-- too often-- I don't. I progress as fast as I allow myself to; that's the bottom line.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: freda underhill
Date: 25 Dec 03 - 02:21 AM

eating is an addiction which can be used as a remedy for to escape from stress or uncontrollable personal situations.

following a schedule or "solution" from someone else, no matter how well meant, can feel oppressive, which makes the whole set of rules approach counterproductive & likely to trigger reaction.

internal decisions to changing a life (swimnming, low carbs, bicycle) - sounds good.

maybe i even believe i could do it too!

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: momnopp
Date: 25 Dec 03 - 06:01 PM

One small and powerful tool I've been trying to incorporate whenever I can is about "self-talk". Replace the phrase, "I can't. . ." with the phrase, "How can I. . ." and watch the way that possibilities seem to open up in places you didn't think there were any options. This works with all stumbling areas of your life.

Another really small semantic change is to replace the word, "but" with the word, "and". The first sentence in the first paragraph I wrote began, "One small but powerful. . . "

Peace,

JudyO

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Joybell
Date: 25 Dec 03 - 07:10 PM

I hit on something that helps me. Mind you I haven't hit on the absolute answer for me and I'm still very overweight, but I'm on the way to slimness again. Anyway I attended a short course on coping with chronic ilness and we were set the task of practicing relaxation. I let my mind wander away into what was supposed to be a country scene with a river and flowers and birds, but it distracted me because all I could see were the introduced weeds and the destruction of the landscape. So I took myself into a sweet shop and began to smell and taste the chocolates. I found I could satisfy my craving for restricted/prohibited food. It was like actually tasting the sweets, and it got easier with practice. I visited fish and chip shops and cake shops. A side effect was that I could actually recall how things smelled when my condition had destroyed my sense of smell. Just a very small trick really, but I add it here for what it's worth. It helps me, maybe it might work for someone else.
Good luck Joy

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: LilyFestre
Date: 25 Dec 03 - 07:49 PM

Two small and helpful things I keep in my mind daily are:

If it's to be, it's up to ME!

It WILL come!!!! (Almost said in an "I think I can, I think I can, I think I can" kind of fashion.....and indeed...slowly...the changes ARE coming!)   :)

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: freda underhill
Date: 25 Dec 03 - 09:34 PM

these last three messages are very helpful and inspiring ..thank you!

freda (a queen sized catter)

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Joybell
Date: 26 Dec 03 - 02:17 AM

Queen Freda. Yes! I really like that title. Wonderful. I never could use the "F" word. Maybe we can meet in the virtual sweet shop. Joy

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: freda underhill
Date: 26 Dec 03 - 05:06 AM

I may be queenly in size, but hobbitly in connections. i have never met arwen or galadriel, but love to dream of them. the virtual sweet shop sounds like the safest one to indulge in!

but in the stars has been revealed the true secret to weight loss!

LEMBAS BREAD!!! only one bite a day needed for all our sustenance requirements!

freda

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 11:10 AM

"The few who do care are the envy of the many who only watch."
- Jim Rohn

Do it anyway
You can always find a good excuse not to take action. But what would you rather have -- good excuses or the real, satisfying fruits of achievement? There is always some person or some circumstance you can blame when you fail to live up to your possibilities. But what good will that do you?

The next time you find yourself looking for a good excuse, stop and ask yourself why. Keeping up appearances is easy. All it gets you, though, is a good superficial appearance. Wouldn't you rather go for real substance?

There are many very good, very understandable reasons why you cannot be the best you can be. Pay them no heed. Make the commitment to succeed in spite of the excuses, rather than to fail because of them. It's your choice.

There are plenty of things to stop you. Go ahead and do it anyway. Instead of amassing a large collection of excuses, build yourself a life that's rich in meaning and accomplishment.

Copyright 2003 Ralph S. Marston, Jr.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 02:56 PM

Take kelp tablets; they speed up your metabolism.

Eat this dish: fry onions in olive oil until transparent, add lentils and fry for another five minutes, then brown rice and fry for another five, then add chicken stock and cover and cook till delicious.

Take the dog for a one-hour walk every day.

It won't take the weight off fast, but it'll melt off, and it'll stay off. Good luck. Thoughts with you.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 07:30 PM

So does anyone have a dog I can borrow?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 10:20 PM

"The next time you find yourself looking for a good excuse..."

Finding an excuse is no work at all. They come unbidden whenever I try to do something about my weight or lack of exercise or housework or...

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 31 Dec 03 - 05:55 AM

housework?

Brett, I haven't done anything since you, Charlie & Judy visited. The floor & table are a nice, comfortable scatter of library books, things I'm working on (dress material & pattern, my knitting, crosswords), things I've finished (at least I put the christmas cards away yesterday!!) & stuff I mean to work on soon ...

The ironing is sitting in the bedroom ...

Anyway as we both know "it just silts up again"

sndra
(ps. don't make New Year Resolutions as they often get broken the next, treat every day as a New Year & do your best that day)

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 31 Dec 03 - 08:50 AM

Anyone going to join the National Event being advertised on TV? On Jan. 10 we are all invited to weigh in at local Discover Centers where we will receive a weight loss kit, a hat, and free three month membership to Bally's health club. This is a national initiative to address obesity. I intend to go.

As promised earlier, I will also start a chat room meeting once a week where we can share recipes, successes, frustrations, etc. Maybe someone in the UK will share the fun - so that the time difference doesn't prevent anyone from participating. Anyone prefer a day or time? Monday PM is the only bad day for me.

Just a thought: this room is for support only. No lectures, no criticisms, just a support group to help each other get on track and stay there. Even those not losing or trying will be welcome. Those eager to ridicule are asked to stay away.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 31 Dec 03 - 08:54 AM

I have set up the Chat Room under the name Weighty Issues. It is a Public Room. Anyone can access it through the drop down list. I will be there tonight at 8PM EST to wish all a Happy New Year.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Kim C
Date: 31 Dec 03 - 10:50 AM

Sounds like you are on the right track, Brett. I haven't checked in on this thread for a couple of weeks so I am a little behind on the news. I don't know anything about blood pressure medications, but I can tell you that antidepressants have not affected my eating habits in the least. I am a protein/veggie/whole grain eater, and have good luck with that program. When the weather was still nice, Mister and I walked almost every day - since it's got cold, we haven't been walking and the decrease in activity has caused me to put on a couple of pounds, so I have had to make some modifications in the diet to compensate. I have been holding steady at 120 (don't gasp, anybody, I'm a little bitty person - I was heavy at 136) so it's not a great big deal. 115 is just about perfect for my height and build so I'm trying to get back there. The irony is, it's very difficult to get rid of just five pounds.

I have also started Ashtanga yoga, which is pretty intense, and will get your heart rate up pronto. It should make up for the lack of walking. One of these days I hope to be able to put my foot behind my head. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Kim C
Date: 31 Dec 03 - 10:53 AM

And to the ladies: try belly dancing. Not only is it good exercise, and great fun, it does wonders for your self-esteem.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 31 Dec 03 - 03:59 PM

please everyone..either buy if you can, or go to Barnes and Noble and just read them..and also check on internet.. Dr. Schwarbein's the schwarzbein principle II. Combine that with the Metabolic Body Typing Diet by Wallet I think...and Nourishing Traditions or Know your Fats by Dr. Mary Enig....if you are of a particular metabolism, prone to overweight, probably of Northern European ancestry...these books will give you lots and lots of information, and permission to eat what others would deny you....they are very very good. mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: momnopp
Date: 31 Dec 03 - 04:10 PM

Here's a blicky (Discovery) for the Discovery Channel thing. (Commercial though it may be, I'm not against any help I can get!) I just heard about it from a friend of mine. He and I are going to do a weight loss "contest". This is an attempt to capitalize on each of our somewhat competitive natures and to make the task somehow palatable.

One thing about such a challenge between the sexes, it has been fairly well documented that men and women metabolize and therefore lose weight quite differently. We've designed our challenge to see who can lose the target number of pounds first -- he's got to lose twice as many as I do -- and there's no real time limit.

I'm not coming up with any of the specific articles we looked at right now, but if your own search for specific material about the differences between men & women isn't satisfactory, PM me and I'll find a couple of decent links to send you.

Peace,

JudyO

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST,JudyB
Date: 31 Dec 03 - 06:03 PM

You know what worked for me when I actually lost that bunch of weight a couple of years ago (and kept it off for quite a while, though it's crept back up the last year or so - time to jump-start again).

Anyway, I was having wicked heartburn, and my doctor gave me this really stupid diet sheet - no fruit, no sweets, no spices, no coffee(!!!) - really stupid. And being raised to be polite, I said "thanks" out loud while my inner voice was going "this is the most absurd thing I've ever seen - a couple of those might occasionally cause heartburn, but no way is this going to solve all my problems...."

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST,JudyB
Date: 31 Dec 03 - 06:16 PM

Interesting - the lights flicker and my message gets posted....

Hmmm....

Anyway, to make a long story short, I decided to follow the stupid diet for a month just to prove that it was garbage, and got great satisfaction out of mentally drafting my letter to him saying how silly it was.

Only one problem. It worked.

And not only did I have less heartburn, but I'd lost a nice chunk of weight by the end of the month (didn't really notice until the gang at work commented on it, then dug out the scales and was surprised). And it set me up to maintain, because I'd pretty much reset my sweet tooth - so I could eat a bite or two of something and happily put away or throw away the rest (the first couple of bites of a hot fudge sundae is what I crave - and it's amazingly liberating to toss the rest in the trash!).

For me, "proving" that the heartburn diet wouldn't work was the key to making it work. (Nothing like using my negativity!) I can't use that trick again - but now I know that if I follow it for a month, I will see progress and will reset some of my trouble spots so they don't bother me as much.

Best of luck, Brett, & Happy New Year!
JudyB

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 31 Dec 03 - 08:48 PM

Pathetic!!! Our first attempt at a weightloss chat room was nothing short of pathetic. I arrived on time with pizza and champagne for the New Year. JudyO followed with a repast of munchies also to celebrate the holiday. So where were the rest of you???

Nevermind. Tomorrow at 8PM EST. I would love a copy of the heartburn diet, Middle age is a bitch.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 05:39 AM

Sorry, Sins, Mister and I were out eating with friends. (I had a chicken wrap with spicy beans and corn - I only ate half and brought the rest home.)

I am not a big eater of sweets anyhow, but I have found that two dark Dove Promises, or one piece of chocolate orange, are very satisfying to the female chocolate craving. The portions are already measured out!

It's ice cream and baked goods that are my ruin.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 02:45 PM

I personally would stick with the ice cream and forgo the baked goods, especially if they are baked with trans fats...and I will try to join in the chat room..I guess 5 p.m. Pacific Time? mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 06:22 PM

So... where is the chat room and how do I get there?

Today is the day. I officially start Atkins today. It seems to be perfect for the island. There really are few fresh vegetables and fruit available and meat is the main staple anyway. I know I'm understating the plan but this should work. Or to follow JudyB's philosophy, I can try to prove it won't work.

One thing I have to do is put up recent pictures of myself. Believe it or not I really have no idea what I look like until I see the pictures. When I saw pictures of myself from the Australia trip I was amazed at how awful I look. It's funny how that can sneak up on a person. I see fat people out and about and think, I never want to look like that. Then I see the pictures and realize I already do!

So today it begins. I brought in all the carbohydrate rich foods from my cupboard and left them out on the table with a sign saying "Free Food". I had a ham and cheese omelette with bacon and sausages for breakfast. I'm not sure what I can find for lunch but that is a bridge I have yet to cross.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 06:29 PM

Good for you Naemeson, at least you have started!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Peg
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 06:29 PM

Brett, you can't JUST eat meat cheese and eggs on this diet,   you do need some vegetables too!!! very important to get your vitamins and minerals and fiber to keep those potentially-toxic cured    meats from staying in the body too long...

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 07:29 PM

yeah...eat some vegetables...as many green ones as you want..get frozen if you can't get fresh. Find a local gardner and pay them to grow specific veges for you...there are ways around various obstacles. Atkins is not a no-vegetable diet. The people who tell you it is are dumber than dumb and don't pay any attention to what they then proceed to tell you....mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 08:58 PM

well... I am not sure if I have mastered the art of opening a room. I was in one named Weight Issues which could be accessed from a menu dropdown headed General. Guess no one else could find it. I will check with Joe Offer on a permanent room.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 09:02 PM

I was there for a long time. I'll go back now..6 p.m. Pacific time. someone else came in for a minute...mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 09:36 PM

Well I can tell you tis-- I have NO idea where to even look for you!

Will join you some time when I can-- nesting with hubby this week and weekend.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: freda underhill
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 10:04 PM

re atkins

you can eat almost any vegetables except heavy carb ones (not potatoes in particular)anything else (cabbage spinach, cauli, brocc etc etc) you can eat as much as you want of.

and to get to the chat room, go to the quick links at the top of your screen, pull down the tab to chat room & press go. it will have a number beside it - if there is 0, no-one's in there to talk to. if there is a number eg 5, there will be 5 mudcatters there already chatting. you will see their mudcat names on the right. there is a box on the bottom left of the screen - that's where you type.

best wishes - freda

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Bob Hitchcock
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 10:30 PM

I am on the Atkins diet, only it's the "Chet Atkins" one. You can eat whatever you want, just pick at it.

Good luck.

Bob.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 10:35 PM

I have been very willing to limit processed carbs - but I have never given up potatoes entirely! I love potatoes. I don't eat as many as I used to, and tend to save them for a treat.

I don't eat many baked goods anymore, but every now and then I just HAVE to have a Krispy Kreme doughnut. And my mother's coconut cake! But I only get that three times a year, tops.

Brett, one of my favorite no-fuss lunches is some mixed greens (like you buy in a bag, if you can get them where you are), maybe some tomatoes, whatever you like, with some tuna/chicken/turkey/ham/salmon, depending on my mood and what's in the fridge. Lowfat salad dressing. Maybe a little feta or gorgonzola cheese and a few walnuts or sunflower seeds. Chicken is really good with some mandarin oranges on a salad. Anyhow, this way you get some protein and some roughage altogether. Makes a nice easy supper in the summertime as well. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 11:11 PM

Thanks, Freda, I didn't know where to go. Now I have to conquer the time difference. For those on the East Coast of the U.S. I am asleep from your 9:00 AM to your 3:00 PM. I am at work from your 5:00 PM to your 3:00 AM. I'm afraid I missed your last chat because I didn't know about it, I hadn't checked the thread.

Bob H. that Chet Atkins diet sounds right for me. LOL

I know I can eat veggies under the Atkins diet. As I said earlier I am understating the diet.

The hard part will be the next few days as I go through my sugar withdrawal. I tried going without sugar once before and was sick all day. I would like to think it was something else but...

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: freda underhill
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 11:30 PM

good luck mr N. yesterday (NY's day) I went for a long walk, down to Broadway (45 mins from erskinille)saw a movie, walked a lot more, got some things, and then walked back. now i'm looking for some good walking shoes.

i am following sandra's advice to treat every day as a New Year & do your best that day

i'm sure jennyo & i will be around to chat weight loss if you ever want it. same issues and we're closer to your time.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: freda underhill
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 11:40 PM

i'm going out now (walking again)but another useful thing (re chatting) is to go to the same link at the top of the page and pull down messages by date. that way you see who is visiting & posting around the same time as you are. you might be able to work out a chat time that way with inter time zone catters - on a weekend or something.

fred

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 07:41 AM

I used to live on sweets - cakes, choccies, lollies, ice creams etc - I needed the sugar to keep me awake! Bags of sweets in my desk & constant visits to the cake shop, usually buying two cakes when everyone else was buying one.

Turns out it was the sugar that was sending my blood sugar up & down, according to my doctor. I didn't think I could live without sweet stuff, but I have never felt deprived.

At the time I was re-adjusting my eating (with a lot of help from my friends, ya can't do it alone) I was looking at my half-full glass & seeing what I could eat to give me health. My colleagues on diets were punishing themselves when they were "bad" & ate a cake or something "off" their diets. Their glasses were half empty & they kept "failing" & berating themselves.

Congratulations to those who can eat part of a treat, me, I'll stick to the fruits & healthy stuff I like eating.

Now, all I have to do is re-adjust once again & stop eating the excess amounts of savoury junk food that I add to my good food. What I normally eat is yummy & nutritious & satisfying & can be followed all my life. Maybe I need to follow the advice I followed 13 years ago & stop doing it alone.

There is a lot of caring & inspiration on this thread. Not all the advice & experience is relevent to me (or everyone) but thanks to everyone who has taken the time fo share what works for them.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 05:04 PM

Well, I couldn't even make it one day. I got home, hungry, and there was nothing to eat that conformed to Atkins. I had not prepared for this. I will try again starting Monday and use the weekend to make sure I have food that conforms to the diet in the kitchen.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Peg
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 05:51 PM

It's only   Friday! Isn't your grocery store open on weekends? ;)
Seriously, Brett, try to   have some raw nuts in the house, they are loaded with protein and nutrients and the fat content makes them a satisfying snack as long as you only eat a few. They also keep well so if you don't have any animal protein on hand they are a good protein fix...
other protein snacks: low-fat cheese, yogurt, natural nut butters (good on celery sticks)

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 06:02 PM

GAH!!! 7lbs appeared overnight! Well, over a week actually - I've not been doing enough walking!

Who would have thought that eating 2lbs of chocolate would make 7lbs worth of difference?!

Ah well, back to the pate and salads again!

Naem - as it says in an advert (for smoking actually) - never give up giving up. If you can even just cut down on the carbs, or calories or whatever you've chosen, it's a start.

Take care.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 06:15 PM

Keep fresh cole slaw on hand, Brett. It is Atkins safe and tastes good. Plus it is a normal food. Liz is right. You cut back from your usual amount of junk. Congratulate yourself and look forward to tomorrow.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 10:45 PM

yeah..there is Saturday and Sunday...if you don't have food on hand, how about some nice Chinese food...

mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 11:12 PM

If you like boiled eggs, make up a batch and keep them in the fridge.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 11:47 PM

OK...please if you are overweight get your insulin levels checked. I got mine checked, and one idiot doctor flatly refused to do it with my other labs, even though I offered to pay any expense that insurance didn't cover. Anyway, it was 46. That is way high. I haven't found ranges, norms etc...because it is just not being done that much. Maybe someone else can find something..I have read different things..5 or so is excellent..I think around 10 is pretty good..20 is still maybe OK..I don't know any of this for sure..but I know 46 is not good...it is important to look at it in conjunction with your blood sugar level..blood sugar can be good for many years while you are developing insulin resistance, then on to diabetes...mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 11:59 PM

I find I have too many addictions and I cannot break them all at once. The most powerful one is my addiction to sugar and sweets. I have just finished with the caffeine headache that comes when you give that up. Now I have to wean myself off sugar.

Last Friday there were too many needs going at once. I have to eliminate them one at a time. Then I'll be ready to tackle the rest of my life changing.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 12:26 AM

I'm going to "trace" this thread and read it in the morning. I spent the day walking around in my "fat" pants that are at this point way too tight. I have to drop about 25 pounds to get into the majority of the clothing in my closet.

I didn't make a resolution for the new year because those are bound to fail and I don't want to set myself up that way. I know that when I get past a sedentary writing project (due next week) and back into yard work (now that my foot has healed) I'll lose the weight. But I'd like to kick start the weight loss.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 01:02 AM

it is said that the sugar cravings are from the too high insulin...when you get them have a small steak and some green vegetables..and a bit of fat, salad dressing or butter..bet they'll go away...they do for most people. mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Peg
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 01:37 AM

Tonight is the full moon; which means for the next two weeks or so, it is waning. This is when the body detoxifies. This is a fine time to eliminate impure foods from the diet, drink more water and herb tea and cleanse the digestive system. When the moon is waxing (new to full) this is the best time for strengthening and building, so the focus should be on exercise and healthy food and supplements. One has a chance to begin again every month with this and for a whole two weeks at a time.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 06:56 AM

Smart, Brett. Obvious you are paying attention to what is going on and seeing where the small steps lie (they seem huge I know). Good job!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 07:17 AM

An interesting bit of research recently heard on Aussie news.

Apparently coffee helps to reduce onset of diabetees. A few warnings - the "pallative" effect is more pronounced in males, and the minimum intake to get results was about 6 cups a day....

They think the efect may be related to the caffeine - the effect does not show with decaffinated - causing the blood sugar to be "burned" more quicly, or efficently.

The comments were that it seems nice, but don't go drinking heaps of coffee just to stop you getting diabetees... caffeine is known to "pump up " the matabolism anyway...

Robin
P.S. it also seems that the common cold virus may assist in fighting melanomas. They really don't know why - but it works in the lab tests. Serendipity again.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 09:32 AM

Probably dipping dark chocolate TimTams in the coffee would not be especially helpful. However, Judy and I won't get fat on TimTams; we only have part of a box left and then it's cold sweats until we return to the far side of the world...

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: JennyO
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 10:14 AM

All our chocolate is living in the fridge at the moment. Except for the one that John left on the dashboard of the van overnight in Coffs Harbour. Picture a river of chocolate! Actually that sounds a lot better than it was.

Well you're just going to have to come back soon Charley, for another Tim Tam fix.

Jenny

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 12:16 PM

dark chocolate is good for you..for many at least...you can eat the Hershey's baking chocolate straight...very few carbs..or melt and mix with some stevia...tiny amount..

mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 01:02 PM

Brett, extinguishing one habit is easiest done by substituting a new, better habit. What if every sugar urge was met with a short round of chair exercise? No, not the chair doing the exercise-- you, in the chair. :~) Sing a shanty to set the rhythm?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 01:09 PM

Awaiting some advice on setting up a permanent chat room for those interested in nutrition and weight loss. Soon. Meantime, I passed by the Pepsi and bought some inexpensive diet soda and club soda to fill the need. Baby steps.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST,MMArio
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 01:13 PM

sinsull - check those cheap diet sodas for sodium content tho' - because some of them are comparitely high -

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Peg
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 02:01 PM

Club soda or seltzer with a bit of fruit juice added (or thsoe selzters with fruit essence added, but be careful because some of these contain artifical sweeteners) is MUCH healthier than regular or diet soda. Aspartame is like poison. diet soda is also very addictive and makes most people suffer any number of unpleasant symptoms from headaches to stomach cramps.
Artificial sweeteners do nothing to assuage cravings for sweets and in fact may make it worse.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 06:10 PM

Hi
This could be me....Help...
I have about eight stone to loose, I have no plan how to do it.
Hopefully I will be able to walk every day.
I fell too tired at the moment to walk the length and breath of myself. Its a new year... where is the new body hiding.
Best of luck to all out there wishing to loose weight.
This is the year.
Patsy

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 06:29 PM

How much is a stone anyway? I've always wondered.

Charley, do you want me to send you some TimTams? We have them here in Guam. The hard part would be to buy them and mail them without breaking into the package to taste test them.

This morning I brought my copy of the Mudcat Cookbook into the office to share with the crew. One woman sat looking through it making yummy sounds every time she turned the page. She kept pointing out recipes I should make and I kept pointing at the copier in the corner.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 06:44 PM

A stone is 14 English pounds.

I lost 30 pounds on the Atkins between April and December. I checked my weight December 21 and again January 3rd. Yikes! Gained 8 back ...

But no sweat, I'm back in the saddle and have dropped five of those ponds in a week.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 06:46 PM

Of course I meant POUNDS not ponds ... ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 08:49 PM

Patsy..good luck...if you are too tired to walk...you can still get fresh air and sunshine..just wrap up if it is cold and sit outside..that will help things...walk just a tiny bit..just 2 minutes if you can..then up to 5.. could you say approximately where you are? England? Australia? It would make a difference...

The trick is to figure out your metabolism and work from there...if you are overweight, it is probably somewhat damaged...but the best thing is to read the Metabolic Body Typing..and try to figure out if you are the sort who needs a lot of grains, or a lower calories balanced diet, or, like me, and very very many people who are overweight, need a lot of protein and varying amounts of fats..way more than the "nutritionists" say we need (the deck of cards syndrome). In the meantime, there are some universals...drink a fair amount of the best water you can find, or buy if you can afford it...don't eat any, none, trans fats..and they are in baked goods and all over the place..and get rid of foods with white flour. If you need desert, have some dark chocolate or good quality ice cream. Eat fruits rather than a lot of fruit juice until you know more about your body type. And the type will depend a lot on your ethnic heritage...most of us are mmixed so it gets confusing. But if you are Norwegian, you will probably do best on what your Norwegian ancestors thrived on..Italian likewise, Chinese likewise etc.

If you have access to health care, get your numbers checked..blood sugar (if you are overweight, get your own meter and test frequently and after various foods) ..INSULIN, even if they say you don't need it because you do..lipids, etc...so you have a baseline.

mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 10:31 PM

I dunno, TheBigPinkLad, the image of someone dropping ponds reminds me of a friend who didn't seem to sweat when he was working out. But if he stopped to sip some water he would start dropping ponds. I couldn't believe anyone could sweat that much water!

Patsy, too tired is what I feel whenever I contemplate exercise. If you can find a partner to walk with you will help. I am trying to get a snorkeling/swimming partner. She's willing but has never been snorkeling before and our schedules have not been compatible lately. The week after next we'll get started and swim on a regular basis.

Chair exercises sound about right. I am reminded of a group who marched in parades back home. They were a lawn chair drill team. They carried folding lawn chairs that they slung about in fancy arcs and spins. Their routine ended with them sitting in the chairs.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 11:27 PM

There is a program called Sit and Be Fit. There are also online sites with chair exercises. Hey, you start where you can.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: freda underhill
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 06:47 AM

have you seen the laqtest news about the fat virus?

The Fat Virus

New evidence has emerged that suggests that obesity may not be entirely the result of unfavourable eating habits and low physical activity levels. A recent study by a group at the University of Wisconsin, published in the International Journal of Obesity has reported that a virus may be a contributing factor to obesity.

The researchers inoculated chickens and mice with the virus, known as AD-36, resulting in excessive fat gain. Adiposity in the affected animals increased (in particular visceral fat, total fat and body weight), however serum cholesterol and triglyceride levels decreased. There was no evidence of damage to those parts of the brain that control energy balance in affected chickens; however more studies in mammals where much more is known about control of energy balance would be helpful.

Obese people may have antibodies to the virus as demonstrated in a sample of obese and lean people from New York. Antibodies were found in 20-60% of obese people compared to only 5% of lean people, and were also demonstrated in the chickens and mice used in this study.

The virus seems to work by affecting part of the brain that controls energy expenditure, however this has not yet been established. The jury is still out as to whether this virus may be a contributing factor to obesity as further studies are needed to ascertain it's role in mammals, in particular humans, and the means by which it is contracted and operates in the body.

(the articles then says that ) eating a nutritious and healthy diet, combined with regular physical activity remains the best way to avoid obesity or to maintain or reduce weight.

References

Dhurandhar, N.V., Israel, B.A., Kolesar, J.M., Mayhew, G.F., Cook, M.E., Atkinson, R.L. Increased adiposity in animals due to a human virus. International Journal of Obesity (2000) 24, 989-996.
Editorial. Is obesity contagious? International Journal of Obesity

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 07:04 AM

When I let go of sugary things I didn't substitute artificially sweetened stuff, I couldn't see the point of eating "fake" sugar instead of real sugar. Some of my friends had pure fruit jam (jelly), sugar free sweeties & fake this & fake that. I didn't see that as being the way I wanted to eat. Basically I eat good nutritious food & fresh fruit & vegies. It's just the excess of savoury takeaway that I need to remove from my life (& that ain't easy, but I do my best each day).

When I want something sweet I have fruit. Fresh dates are my sweet, & one of those a day is my preference, cos they are very sweet. I usually have one in the evening & other fruit in the day.

I've also never seen a reason to have fruit juices instead of real fruit. I'd rather chew on an orange than drink half a cup of orange juice. And who ever has half a cup, a normal serving of fruit juice is more than that & I prefer to eat oranges one at a time. Other, smaller fruit is great in pairs or even quantity (imagine eating one grape!!)

sandra - today I ate nutritious food & no junk. Yesterday the same, however Wed some of my choices weren't so good.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 09:56 AM

I heard something about a Discovery Health Channel fitness program that begins in the 10th of January that will run for 12 weeks. Has anyone else heard about that? I just looked it up--you'll find the information here at the National Body Challenge. The weigh in is January 10. I'm game--anyone else?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 02:06 PM

Oooo--I happened to open one of the ads at the bottom of the page. This thread is attracting some "alternative medicine" stuff. See this.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Peg
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 03:26 PM

I do a colon cleanse about once a year. Fasting is a very good way to detoxify and cleanse and refresh the body and restore health. In cold regions, it is advisable to wait until spring.

You can do this cleansing on a small scale (and strengthen your liver in the process) by doing the following:
each morning before breakfast, squeeze the juice of half a lemon into a half-glass of room temnperature spring water. Add a quarter- to a half teaspoon of ground flax seed or psyllium seed husks, then a few drops of olive oil. Mix well, then drink it down. Do this for 3-4 days once a month, preferably when the moon is waning. it basically jsut tastes like lemon.

Increasing the amount of fresh fruits and vegetables in your diet also helps this cleansing process.
Soups or salads made with plenty of celery, spinach and other greens are particularly detoxifying.
Or try a one-day juice fast on the weekend: drink fresh-squeezed oranges, lemons, and limes mixed with an equal amount of spring water throughtout the day. No food. Rest and engage in light activity and be sure to bathe and stay warm.

These methods have been used by Europeans for many years and are the basis of many spa treatments for weight control and rejuvenation of the body.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 06:35 PM

I'm going to look into the Discovery Channel thing. Of course, I cannot get to a checkin location and I'm willing to bet the program will be broadcast in Guam on a two week delay. But I'll give it a try Sage. Anyone else?

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: LilyFestre
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 07:15 PM

MG,
   
I am curious about something you wrote....

"get your numbers checked..blood sugar (if you are overweight, get your own meter and test frequently and after various foods)"

As a diabetic, I have always read and have been told to test my glucose levels at certain times...when I get up, before meals and before bedtime....before and after exercise if I am curious....but never have I seen/heard about testing after various foods. I know the physicians often test people to see if they are diabetic by making them drink something and test every few hours....am I misunderstanding? Would you please explain more? I really am very curious.

Thanks!

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 11:29 PM

I'm not a medical person so I can't give anything that could be construed as advice....but for example, those diets that diabetics are told to be on..6-11 servings of grains and 3 servings of dairy and 3 of fruit..that is a whopping amount of carbohydrate...measure your blood sugar after one of those meals...if it is medically OK..have a different meal, like meat and vegetables only...compare the two...read Dr. Bernstein and Dr. Schwarzbein...we are being told these theoretical things that have horrible health consequences...and are based on other people. we don't need other people's responses to various foods or diets..we need to know what our own is. A scale, a glucose meter, occasional blood tests, our own feelings of good health...all are very important...I think the Dr. Bernstein books would be very good to read. mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST,Susanl
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 04:02 AM

Eat lots of good food. A tiny bit of healthy fat, a little more protein, and LOTS of fruit and vegetables. Also, some complex carbohydrates. People need carbohydrates for their emotional and intellectual stability but NOT refined carbohydrates. Give up one non-food (refined carbs and sugar, for instance) a week.

Excercise consistently, no matter what kind of excercise. DON'T go on a diet. Learn how to eat well.

If you eat for emotional reasons, (e.g. stress, boredom) identify those reasons and day by day, replace bad eating responses with other healthy responses (meditation, deep breathing, listening to music, etc.)

DON'T try to change everything at once. Make small changes and add to them.

Picture the new person underneath the old person that wants to emerge. Shed the old habits and let the new ones take over little by little.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 10:11 AM

In the UK, there is a pretty good programme on TV on Friday evenings, last nights' was very good, there's another programme next Friday. It's Victoria Wood's Fat Documentary. She's a person who has battled with weight problems and image problems the whole of her life - she mentioned last night that she spent 30 years on one diet or another from the age of 12.

One of the major things that came over (well to me anyway) was that people went to slimming clubs for the social side of it, rather than any major desire to weigh less (although that seems to be a beneficial side effect). The other really astute observation was that you have to actually sit down, on the end of the bed as it were, and look yourself in the face. If you don't like what you see, then that is probably the reason you are caught in the 'eat because I'm unhappy, unhappy because I'm too fat, I'm too fat because I eat too much' circle. Once you identify this circle (or whatever it is that drives you to eat too much/the wrong foods), then you can identify the way out. Once you decide that you do like the person you are, the feelings that drive you to excesses should lessen and you can control them.

The last thing that struck me, was that it was the 'diet or die' choice that drove most people to a serious weight loss. Many of the people she spoke to (UK MP's Nigel Lawson, Anne Widdecome to name two) were given the option of losing weight or having serious pain/dangerous health problem for the rest of their lives.

I know that's what drove me to losing weight, and still pushes me towards my final goal. I don't know what that goal is yet, I'm still taking the baby steps.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: LilyFestre
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 10:14 AM

Hi MG,

Yeah...everything BUT protein turns into sugar. A high carb meal will make ANYONE's glucose levels rise. It's the tolerance of each of our own bodies that makes it all so individual. My husband can eat the same thing as I do and his blood sugar (as a non-diabetic) will rise minimally in points while mine turns into a rollercoaster.   It's amazing how the body can almost immediately tell the difference in the kinds of sugars it is getting.....some raise your blood sugars more than others and some process slower than others etc.

Coffee also has a tendancy to effect my blood sugars. When my sugars are regulated and humming along smoothly, a cup of coffee can drop my blood sugars within 3-4 hours by a good 40 points. I've been telling people that for a long time...nice to see that finally someone "professional" has come about with that announcement in the media!

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 11:19 AM

that is why people need to measure themselves..before and after certain kinds of meals and/or foods...maybe 1 and 2 hours after...and see what is going on...and you won't see the whole picture unless you know your insulin level to see how hard your body is working to maintain what are good blood sugar levels. And some people need more than just a little fat to stabalize thing..and we vary widely in our protein requirements. That is why we need to understand what our bodies need. What is good for some people will just lead to continued or increasing poor health for others. Read the metabolic body typing diet please please and test things out for yourself and find good naturopath or regular doctors....mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 03:34 PM

Um, I hate to bring this up, folks, but well, it's been bugging me for a coupla days..... about this, um, Atkins thing......

BEER!!!!

No BEER?????

Howdafuggg......

MOTIVATOR

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Peg
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 05:15 PM

For those interested in reading more about blood sugarand its effect upon health, I highly recommend any of the books of Dr. Lendon Smith. He has written several, including Feed Yourself Right, Feed Your Kids Right, and Dr. Lendon Smith's Low-Stress Diet.

He offers very logical and readable advice about all sorts of complaints, and has a holistic approach, reminding readers that   symptoms are asign that change needs to occur at a very basic level. He also says, quite rightly, that the heartburn, headaches, irritability and skin rashes of today may well be the cancer, heart disease, diverticulitis and diabetes of tomorrow.

He also urges people to discover what foods they have sensitivities/allergies to (in most cases symptoms are mild or seem unrelated to   food, and the troublesome foods are those we tend to eat/want every day, like eggs, chicken, wheat, beef, chocolate, corn, milk, cheese, sugar, coffee). But many years of eating these foods can cause serious problems for those sensitive to them. Once a food is left out of thediet for three months or more, it can in many cases be re-introduced occasionally, say, once a week, but not on a regular basis. He says if you know what foods   gave your mother problems when she was pregnant with you, those are the foods you should avoid. His years of work as a pediatric nutritionist led to his research on sugar and its effects on adults; he thinks low blood sugar is a much more pervasivce problem than most doctors do.

I would guess a search on www.half.com might locate some of his books...and I have seen them in used bookstores and libraries, too.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 07:58 PM

Well, I am slowly eating my way through the remaining carbohydrates in the house. My use of white sugar is down to what I put in my (decaf) coffee. Additional sugar is in my iced tea and the cherry preserves I put on my toast. On the negative side I have been raiding the candy (M&Ms and chocolate covered macadamia nuts) on the lunch table.

My only concern is how the Atkins diet, with it's reliance on proteins, will affect my cholesterol levels. I have never had a high reading. My last one was within the normal range but higher than my previous level which was very low. What will Atkins do to it.

And, does anyone know anything about the South Beach Diet?

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 08:15 PM

When I was in NYC I saw a weight specialist weekly for four months and lost 40+ lbs on a moderated Atkins plan. My cholesterol dropped dramatically. Essentially I was on a "No Whites" plan. No rice, pasta, refined sugar, potatoes, flour and moderate amounts of starchy vegeatables like corn. Unlimited salad greens and fruit. I started each day with hot oatmeal and fresh fruit which satisfied my carb cravings and postponed the lunchtime hungries until past noon.

Just had a visit with the doctor for what seems to be a glandular infection - oh joy! But he weighed me.

So I threw out the carbs on my shelf and started again. This time I have to eliminate dairy as well due to a nasty allergic reaction that has developed over the past year.

I will say it again "Middle age is a bitch. And YES i expect to live to 120."

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 08:25 PM

Naemason, don't worry about smallish amounts of sugar..and macademia nuts are very good for you..a few covered in chocolate won't be bad..get some baker's chocolate, melt with a bit of stevia and cover some yourself if you like them.

When you say carbohydrates...are you talking about just sugar? How are you doing on white bread? That is the first thing I would toss. White rice, probably a staple in Guam...at least cut way back. Eat lots and lots of vegetables. There is no law that says you have to or must not go on the Atkins Diet or something similar. You have to find the plan that works for your body. This does work for many many overweight people, but not all. And get your cholesterol and everything else checked right now so you can do comparisons. Most people will drop in cholesterol levels (to the best of my knowledge)and tryglicerides should drop...all has to do with insulin resistance. Once more, you need to know if you are insulin resistant..which is a step away from diabetes. Get your insulin levels checked. If you have to, you can send blood sample away for this but they should be able to check it.

mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Peg
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 11:37 PM

Why "slowly eat your way through" them??? Just throw them away and get started on the plan, if that's what you want to do. You can't begin, until you begin. The longer you put it off, the longer it will take you to get healthy. You started this thread weeks ago and so far it does not sound like you have made very many changes in your lifetsyle. What is stopping you? I mean, you asked for help. Lots of people have offered advice. Why are you only coming up with excuses to put off eating differently, or starting an exercise plan? Maybe the lack of motivation is the real problem that needs to be addressed.

I don't mean this to sound harsh but you don't sound like you are making any progress.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 12:13 AM

Peg is right. It is difficult to throw away "perfectly good food" if you have a frugal habit. Throwing it away (or better, give it away) would remove the problem. A compromise might be putting stuff in the freezer to be taken out as needed.

Personally, if I were to choose a diet to follow, I would look at "The Zone" and decide how to apply his theories (food as medicine) to things like the Atkins diet. Barry Sears was a cancer researcher who realized that with cancer treatments, there was a "zone" where a cure could take place. Too little, and the patient died of cancer. Too much and the patient died of the treatment. The healthy zone can be applied to diet also. How much of what you eat keeps you in a healthy zone?

Food for thought, as they say.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 07:41 PM

I agree - throwing out perfectly good food is a sinful thing to do - I'm forever telling Limpit that she mustn't waste food, and I was brought up to do the same. We only throw food away if it is more than 6 months past its' sell by date or it knocks on the fridge door and begs for a merciful release!

At least going slowly through it is better than bingeing it all in one weekend.

Good luck.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 09:00 PM

Brett,
Cutting back works too. And it sounds as if you are exercising. One day at a time. And do it your way. I tossed out any bread that was in the house and a bagel but froze some other treats for when the cravings will lead me to eat an entire pizza if I don't cut them off at the refrigerator.
I also keep a bag of miniature York Peppermint Patties in the freezer. One will satisfy my cravings for chocolate or sweets. I cannot live happy on Atkins.
As to your motivation - all of us have reasons for overeating.Stress, depression, boredom, habit, whatever. I prefer to confide my issues in a licensed professional and a very good friend. I rarely give advice but I will now - do the same.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 09:39 PM

No, I think he said he was eating it down slowly and intentionally, to wean himself off the sugars. He tried going cold turkey on the sugars and it didn't work-- this was what would be do-able. Let's assume he's doing what he needs to do and encourage him in that, OK?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 09:47 PM

the cravings are most likely/probably etc. too high insulin...read everything you can about insulin resistance...maybe do a google search on insulin resistance and carbohydrate cravings. For those of you going pooh pooh this has been really brought together by Dr. Raven, former chair of endocrinology at Stanford University..hard to come up with a better credential.

Do many people ever crave fats all alone? Say olive oil? Sweet creamery butter? Lard? Probably very few. Even proteins...more often to be sure...it is the carbs, particularly those mixed with fats...at least make sure they are not mixed with trans fats...get stuffed baked with coconut oil or butter if you have to eat white flour products.... but try to give them up first and eat some good ice cream or dark chocolate for sweet cravings...

mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Amergin
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 10:17 PM

i'v a good hundred pounds....at least that is the weight i want to lose... ;)....recently I started walking again, for that seems whenever I walk alot and cut back on the junk, my weight goes down...as I don't eat all that much...the problem is walking and not eating as much crap...

once I get rid of my tim tams and my lindt chocolates and my eucalyptus lollies...then no more junk food...

I have also been restricted to one cup of milo a day...

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 10:40 PM

As you say Susan, I am weaning myself off the carbs. And by carbs I meant most of the huge amounts of carbs I used to eat every day. The cereal is gone. My bread (wheat) intake is down. The only sugar I've had lately is in my coffee and the sweets I sneak at the office, and some cherry preserves I scraped over my bread the other day. It's likely the mold will get the bread before I can finish the loaf and then I will be out of that.

I have to do this slowly. I do not have an iron will with which I can just cut off my 51 years of accumulated eating habits. I have eaten cereal for breakfast since I was weaned away from my mother's breast and now I am trying to stop. I miss my regular habits but I cannot go on, I cannot cut down. It's like smoking. I cannot just have one a day. "Betcha can't eat just one." was written for me. If it's there I will eat it so I have to get rid of it.

This week I have been eating alternatives for breakfast and I find it does not satisfy me emotionally. Physically I have eaten and I am fine until the next meal. Emotionally I am missing the texture and the taste of my regular meals. I have to get over this.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 11:03 PM

do you have a glucose meter? It would probably show good results..but maybe you are stable...have you had cholesterol ad triglycerides done? I bet they are going down at a good rate if they were high before...

Remember, if you are on an Atkins Type diet..and you will know fairly soon if it is right for you or not because you will lose, or at least (like me) not gain weight, and you will feel better.....if you feel absolutely lousy after a couple of weeks it is probably the wrong diet...anyway, if it is working, remember it is not a hunger type diet...you get to eat until you are full, if you eat the right foods. You shouldn't be hungry.

Can you try a small bowl of oatmeal..not instant..big flakes or Irish type with whole milk or cream....small amounts...if you are carbohydrate sensitive, which many/most/who knows maybe almost all, overweight people are...you don't need the skim milk.

Read Mary Enig and Sally Fallon..know your fats and nourishing traditions....

Also, do you feel like telling us what your ethnic heritage is? That makes a big difference....

mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 12:07 AM

Brett,

Stopping things you're practically imprinted on is difficult--can you modify your morning cereal? I grew up eating oatmeal, so it is no hardship to keep eating it now. But if you don't like cooked cereal and you're used to eating dry cereal, then eat Cherrios. Or look at some of the whole grain cereals out there now. I was going down the aisle looking at all of the types just this morning. Expensive as hell, but they're available.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 12:21 AM

Brett, I hear ya. So, how will you get over it? One approach might be to eat the breakfast you should eat (logically), and THEN have a 1/4 serving of the thing you WANTED to eat. Eventually (I bet) the 1/4 serving will get to be a pain in the ass. Anyway, it might be an approach. If not-- what do you think might work? (Or, what IS working?)

love ya sweetie--

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Peg
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 10:15 AM

I disagree that a gradual approach is going to work for everyone. Some people need something more drastic. Weaning does not work with a sweet tooth. The only way to stop eating so much sugar, if you eat it every day, is to stop eating it, period. After about ten days to two weeks your sweet tooth will be greatly reduced. Scientific experiments have proven this: sweet sugary tastes lose their appeal when sugar is avoided for a period of time.

Unfortunately this takes will power. But it is achievable.

Sweets consumption is often linked psychologically to a need for comfort, to ease loneliness, to erase anxiety. I don't know what   sorts of issues you are having and of course we all have them to some extent; but addressing them with food alone is not healthy.

Exercise, on the other hand, should be added gradually to prevent injury. But it can't just be contemplated. It has to be accomplished. Walking for five minutes a day, and adding five minutes to that whenever you can, until you're up to an hour a day, is something to shoot for. Or using the pool,increasing your activity gradually. Is any of this happening yet?

I want you to get better, and start some new habits that will follow you the rest of your life. That life will be a longer one if you start now to improve it. I don't give a shit if other people think I am not being "supportive." You seem to need some tough love here.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 10:37 AM

Peg,
I've been dealing with that sweet tooth after the holidays, and I can agree whole-heartedly with the problem you described of breaking yourself of it. It is a form of withdrawal. I tend to find the urge for something sweet hits about the same time every day, so i seem to have built it into my internal clock.

I also have the urge to not buy any larger pairs of pants, but to fit into all of my regular stuff. I shot myself in the foot (so to speak) with foot surgery last summer. It took a while to get over and I gained weight. Now I've leveled out, but it is losing the weight that is the challenge. Yard work should be a big help there--I have to haul a bunch of rocks up from the creek (except for the one I sent Bat Goddess--my son found that!) and haul a bunch of dirt from the back yard to the front yard to build a berm. That should take care of a few calories.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Peg
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 10:52 AM

SRS:
this sugar craving is very common in our culture. Seinfeld even had an episode about it: Elaine was working in an office where every excuse for a cake to be served was taken advantage of: birthday, get well soon, etc. She got hooked on the afternoon sugar fix. I experienced it when I worked in an office. This is the time of day our blood sugar dips, after lunch when we all need a nap but don't usually get one. I had to cut out sugar because I am hypoglycemic and have several (slim) family members with type 1 diabetes (did not want to join them).I found having a little high-protein snack around 3 pm helped alot (like nuts, celery with peanut butter, a hunk of cheese and an apple), and a high-protein breakfast also helped prevent this as it helps establish a steady levelof blood sugar.

I am convinced one reason Atkins works so well for people to lose weight at first (though in the long run it probably has serious health risks) is that people do not make the connection between all the carbs and sugars (empty calories) they eat turning right into fat,and then dropping their blood sugar to the point where they feel hungry again soon after eating them. Also most white flour or sugar filled foods have virtually no nutritional value; so the body can't use them for anything except calories. They stop those empty calories and start eating nutrient-dense foods (flesh foods, dairy, veggies) and their hunger is satisfied. It seems to work for a real good motivational tool as it does kick-start weight loss while healthier habits cna be developed.

you make a good point regarding exercise; any activity no matter how small adds up to burning calories and thus raising the metabolism every day. Doing laundry or a half hour of gardening may not seem like much, but over the course of a day it does add up. Just as taking the stairs instead of the elevator, or walking a half mile to the store for a quart of milk, will burn calories and help keep muscles toned.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 03:36 PM

Brett, I think I see a couple of things happening. In previous posts you said:

I find I have too many addictions and I cannot break them all at once. The most powerful one is my addiction to sugar and sweets. I have just finished with the caffeine headache that comes when you give that up. Now I have to wean myself off sugar.

Last Friday there were too many needs going at once. I have to eliminate them one at a time. Then I'll be ready to tackle the rest of my life changing.

and

Well, I am slowly eating my way through the remaining carbohydrates in the house. My use of white sugar is down to what I put in my (decaf) coffee. Additional sugar is in my iced tea and the cherry preserves I put on my toast. On the negative side I have been raiding the candy (M&Ms and chocolate covered macadamia nuts) on the lunch table.

So my question is, which thing are you focusing on eliminating right now?

<> Sugar (candy, sugar, syrup, soda-- almost instant-action sweets)
<> Simple carbs (white bread, over-processed sugared cereal, white pasta, white rice, sweet lo-fiber fruits-- turns to sugar fast but not instantly),
<> Complex carbs (oats and whole grains, potatoes, sweet potatoes, corn, most fruits, fibrous/nutty-- long-digesting)

And are you having some protein with each serving of whatever you eat? That would level out the cravings and the hunger, as well as insulin and blood sugar.

Remember, you said "one at a time." So which one are you eliminating now, and which is next?

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 06:17 PM

Ethnic heritage is plain old United Statesian Heinz 57 white guy. My grandparents were English, Dutch, French, and German but so long in the States that the heritage of those cultures were gone.

I am eliminating sugar now, Susan. I am down to three teaspoons a day. Tomorrow I cut it off.

The reason I am doing this gradually is that I have experienced the withdrawal symptoms of a complete cutoff from sugar. I was miserable, sick, dizzy, weak. I had to leave work and go home I felt so bad. I figure a cut off from my new sugar levels should be easier to take. I had a bad day yesterday when I raided the candy on the lunch table but it's mostly gone by now and it will be easier to avoid in the near future and that's all I need.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 06:54 PM

Sounds good. What's next to go, after the sugar cutoff stabilizes? Or is it too soon to choose?

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 10:38 PM

are you eating enough fat? Enough meat? It sounds like you had a hypoglycemic reaction...are you aware of this condition? It would be more from not eating enough fat, fiber and protein (frequently) than cutting back on sugars. I think. These situations are complex.   Are you substituting other foods for the sugar? You are a big man, and you need a certain amount of calories, and a certain amount of fat, protein and vegetables with fiber. I don't know how much of each. I don't know if you would benefit from some fruits, very limited fruits, some grains, no grains...these carbohydrate variables are difficult to assess. Can you get your blood etc. tested? Ask for hemoglobin A1c, lipid panel...see if they will also check insulin and DHEA and/or cortisol..you will see why when you read stuff by Dr. Schwarbein..who has a major web site...

From your ethnic heritage, I would personally consume grains that they consumed..oats, rye, barley. I would consume meats that they consumed.....certainly pork, chicken, fish, rabbit...beef if it agrees with you....I would eat butter and olive oil. I would not fear butter....but I would and do fear any artificial trans fats like margerines etc.   I would not drink fruit juice or smoothies...way high in sugars.... mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 16 Jan 04 - 04:51 PM

Today is a tough one. I want some cereal. I'm starting to rethink the whole diet idea. Bah Humbug!

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Jan 04 - 04:54 PM

Fresh air, move around some, THEN see if you still need a fix. If so, take half a fix, go for some more air, and try again.

Harness your stubbornness for your own self! :~)

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Peg
Date: 16 Jan 04 - 05:10 PM

Jesus H. Christ, there is nothing wrong with eating cereal! Just choose one that is not loaded with sugar.

Eat oatmeal, total, cheerios, corn flakes, raisin bran, grape nuts. Add some fruit if you want.
I had hot oatmeal with low fat milk and a banana for breakfast yesterday. It was delicious, nutritious and I did not get hungry again for several hours (and I have low blood sugar)

Do you want to lose weight? I mean, you do, don't you? That is what you've said.

Eat less junk food, cut down on fatty foods, add more healthy nutritious food to your diet (meaning lots of vegetables and fruits), add fiber-rich foods to your diet, drink plenty of water every day, and get some exercise.

It's not rocket science, and despite the plethora of tips on this   thread, it is not complicated. What is stopping you? It is not   necessarily easy,but if you don't at least make an effort, nothing   will happen.

Please, please, just do something to get started.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 16 Jan 04 - 05:24 PM

Some people do better, like way better, by not cutting down on fatty foods, making sure they eat the right fats, and by cutting way back on cereals...

Perhaps have the cereal, a healthier one if possible, and add some meat and fat to your breakfast.

mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Jan 04 - 07:00 PM

Oatmeal with raisins is a treat for me (my kids don't like raisins so I don't put them in the morning cereal when we're all here together).

The biggest help to myself when I'm trying to eat healthier is to have healthy food handy for those times when I walk into the house and am so hungry before fixing a meal that I'll eat something sugary for the instant energy. I find things like beef jerky and dried apricots are a good and very quick snack (no preparation) before fixing the real meal.

I picked up some dried fruit yesterday, and a pack of trail mix, with nuts, fruit, and m&ms. I ended up eating 6 oz of trail mix during the afternoon (I calculate, from the package numbers, about 800 calories) because the salty/sweet combination tasted good, and because with a little sugar in there I was attracted to those calories. Next time I'll get nuts and raisins alone, probably best if I make it myself. Then I'll get that sweet/salty mix but in a healthier form. It looks like going cold turkey from the sugar is the way to deal with it.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 16 Jan 04 - 07:03 PM

I should probably repeat that I am far from being the poster child for weight loss...it is stuck on me..I don't feel I can eat fewer calories...I sleep an awful lot..but at least I am not gaining and know how much worse it could be if I followed the standard SAD advice... mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 16 Jan 04 - 11:21 PM

Peg, if I'm not moving fast enough for you, you don't have to hang around. I was never a pacesetter anyway. I have always been difficult for impatient people to understand.

I went out nd bought some Mutigrain Cheerios. That was good. I was sick all morning, headache and feverish. still don't feel well.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 03:27 AM

if you don't feel well, you should see a doctor and hope that he or she knows something about nutrition. Likewise a nutritionist. Some are good, some are harmful. You really need to match your food intake to what your particular metabolism needs...none of us knows what that is....and also most of the advice you are getting is from women...and we have different metabolic needs. There are some universals that you can extract from all this...
1. You have no need for white flour or artificial fluids like Pepsi or Crystal lite...2. You need good and sufficient protein and fats and fiber vegetables. No one knows how much. 3. You probably need some fruits and some grains. No one knows how much. 4) You don't need massive amounts of alcohol..perhaps a bit is OK...no one knows how much.       Have you read the Zone? It might help...   

You are doing well eliminating things that are not needed. You must get enough calories to keep going. You seem to be showing signs of hypoglycemia....I'd sure read up on it and see a doctor and again hope he or she knows anything about it....when you feel funny like that it wouldn't hurt to check your blood sugar. I ahve never heard of it causing fevers though.....that seems odd...

Cut out the truly bad stuff , which you are doing, and listen to your body....don't starve yourself...there is nothing tø gain from doing that....if and when you find the right diet for your body, it will be enjoyable (she says, being overweight herself) ....you will feel well. Dr. Mercola at mercola.com has some good articles he posts. Dr. Schwarzbein has a very good website. So does dr. Bernstein. So do the metabolic body typing people. Also, read up on yeast infections....if you ahve been eating a lot of bread especially that could be causing overweight and also illness....also parasites are probably not unknown in Guam...lots to think about... mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST,foodforthought
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 07:27 AM

hi Naemanson
your reactions to weaning yourself off sugar are pretty normal for anyone with a sugar addiction. (been there.. still there..)

it is extremely hard to cut down on carbs if they're not replaced with something else that's satisfying.

when it doesn't work out one day, it can work out on another day.

i don't think that weight is something that can just be controlled by dieting, especially for the severely overweight. you may have a medical problem, and it may be caused by medical issues - eg some medications cause you to actively put on weight. if you are taking medication for something & beating yourself up about what you eat, you are trapped in a Catch 22. You may have eaten this way all your life, but only put on the larger amount of weight recently, eg in the last year or so. if this is the case, it IS NOT THE FOOD. it could be medication, or a change in your body's functioning for some other reason. and you have every right to assist your search for weight loss with other medical assistance.

or, to do it slowly, in what ever way you finally work out for yourself.

some carbs eg oats, seem to have less weight causing qualities than say wheat. (there is some glycolic or other index I've seen that comments on this). You have more chance of digesting carbs earlier in the day (eg morning, lunch)than at night. That is a compromise that can be reached.

good luck & best wishes!

food for thought..

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 08:16 AM

I'm just glad to see you haven't jacked it in... that's the next biggest step over!

The sick feelings may well be 'cold turkey' - bodies react in different ways when we remove the thing we "rely" on. My downfall was cola. I used to drink a fair amount and then I stopped. Three times in one week I fainted. I found out that it was the cola that was keeping me upright. The caffiene kick gave me enough energy to get to work! It was all connected to the heart trouble, which was not improved by a very stressful situation. The cola gave me that kick start and it's been a case of trial and error finding an amount of stimulant that will keep me going, without overdoing it. Once I realised that my irregular and rapid heartbeat wasn't a symptom of too much caffiene, I made an effort to find out what the problem really was.

Keep going, a little a day. It may take you a month, it may take you a year, but you will make it!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: LilyFestre
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 08:28 AM

Just wanted to tell you that the beginning is THE hardest part...I SWEAR!!!! Push yourself through that and you are home free my friend. Sure, there will be some other difficult times but NOT LIKE when you are getting started!

Be strong! This miserable part WILL pass....keep telling yourself that!!!!!

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Peg
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 10:29 AM

Brett, I am not impatient for you, I am concerned about you. I want you to be the healthy person you want to be. I have noted you are having a hard time getting started with making changes. But every day has the potential for change. You started this thread asking for help, for ideas, for support, for motivation. I have offered a great deal of that in a lot of posts, as have others. I am not doing that for my health, but for yours, because you asked. I just don't want to see you give up without giving it a good try. Sorry, I do not happen to be a molly-coddling type so if I seem impatient, realize there is real concern behind it. When you wrote you were "rethinking" the whole diet idea, that's what it sounded like to me. That frustrates me, because I am concerned about your health. I think you do want to get healthy, but I can't figure out what approach is best for you (which is why I have offered a number of different kinds of advice). Only you can figure that out, ultimately. But you did ask for help. I think if you see this as an "all or nothing" thing it will be even harder to do. Which is why I opined that there is absolutely nothing wrong with eating cereal, if you want it, as it is not an unhealthy food, with few exceptions. Do this any way you think will work, but do it reasonably. I agree with others who think the "one day at a time" approach is good...but to me that means that every day is an opportunity for you to get better.
Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 07:53 PM

I think I have a mild case of the flu. My temperature was just under 102 last night. I took some Nyquil, slept well, and feel a little better this morning but still not back to normal. I still feel feverish.

It figures this would hit on a three day weekend...

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 08:14 PM

Maybe it's a good thing it hit on a three day weekend. Stay in and rest, lots of fluids, etc. There are two types running amok here. One lasts 24 hours; the other drags on for two or three weeks with a fever reaching 104. Hell of a way to lose weight.

Brett, have you tried to figutr out how many calories you are currently consuming. Rule of thumb: it takes 13 calories per day to support a pound of body weight. Multiply your body weight by 13 then by 7 and you have the number of calories to maintain your current weight, Subtract 7000 from that total and you have the weekly calories needed to drop 2 pounds your first week. Just another approach if you can't eliminate sugar and bread. Be sure you don't use all your calories on junk food and soft drinks. You still need to improve your nutrition.

At 300lbs, you can consume 2900 calories per week and lose weight. Plateauing will occur - weeks where you will lose nothing because you aare replacing fat weight with water weight or your body is just equaling...or maybe even replacing fat with muscle which weighs more.

Give it some thought.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Jan 04 - 11:48 AM

Jeff PM'd me today. For those interested, Weighty Issues, a permanent chat room is in the works. As soon as it is up, I will PM those who expressed interest and announce it on this thread. Live chat with friends with the same interests.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Jan 04 - 12:03 PM

Once again, Supr Cyber Man has come through for us. There is now a permanent chat room called Weighty Issues for discussions on nutrition, weight loss, success stories, help!, etc. Anyone can open or enter it by going to the drop down menu. See some of you tonight.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Tinker
Date: 18 Jan 04 - 12:18 PM

What time Sins??? Yes, the doctor wants me to take off about 20 lbs on top of the ten I dropped last year. It seems to be a bit stubborn and like the rest of you I'm having trouble staying focused.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Jan 04 - 05:32 PM

Well, I'm glad, Brett, that you have sense enough left to take your temperature. Drink plenty of fluids and read your Maturin.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: momnopp
Date: 19 Jan 04 - 02:10 AM

Here's what I'm learning about healthy eating from someone who's studied weight-loss issues from a number of perspectives for many years, worked closely with scientists as a staff member of the North American Association for the Study of Obesity (blicky) and analyzes things pretty thoroughly:

1) Carbs are carbs are carbs in terms of how they ultimately end up in the body. The speed at which they do this varies greatly, however. Slower is healthier.

2) Overall, eating as "close to the source" as possible is best. This means grains with minimal processing, fruits and veggies fresh and uncooked (or cooked as little as possible). Eating an orange is a whole different process from drinking (even freshly-squeezed) orange juice.

3) Some types of fats are better than others - Arthur S. Agatston of South Beach Diet fame (a cardiologist) recommends olive oil and canola oil as best bets.

4) The glycemic index is only truly useful as a tool for those with Type I Diabetes. Unless you have a serious insulin problem, it's not all that useful a tool. There's an article here that I think gets most of the idea.

5) The fact of the matter is that in order to lose weight, the number of calories consumed has to be smaller than the number expended. You can achieve this by a) reducing the number of calories consumed, b) increasing the number of calories expended (some people call this, "exercise") or c) both a and b.

6) I believe that is 6.5 hours of sleep required before the body actually begins to process glucose. Here's more on that.

7) Losing weight has sooooo many complicated pieces to it that food and exercise only explain the littlest bit about it. The now famous "Dr. Phil" addresses the whole notion from the inside out. His approach has people looking at their motivations and self-talk before he even mentions food. I haven't read "The Ultimate Weight Solution: The 7 Keys to Weight Loss Freedom" but it sounds interesting. This area of his website has lots of interesting tidbits.

Hope there's some good stuff contained in the above information. I'll keep passing along information as I learn more.

I think I'm down by about 5 pounds but the real boon so far is that I've got the sugar monster under control. I was fortunate to find some very yummy snackable snow peas, asparagus, cherry tomatoes, broccoli, tiny, sweet peppers that fill the "crunchie-munchie" desire pretty well. Low-fat string cheese also helps get me through.

Peace,

JudyO

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 19 Jan 04 - 09:22 AM

The following article came from the front page of the 19 JanSydney Morning Herald (www.smh.com.au) & was originally published in the New York Times. I won't include the SMH clicky as it would now be in Archives (it's tomorrow here, now!!) & Archived articles usually cost money.

.....................                           
Fatty diet backs away from the heart attack on a plate                                                                                 
By Marian Burros in New York                                                   
January 19, 2004                                                      
After advising dieters for years to satisfy their hunger with liberal amounts
of steak, eggs and other saturated fats, the promoters of the Atkins diet now
say people should set limits on such foods.                           
Only 20 per cent of a dieter's calories should come from saturated fat, the   
director of research and education for Atkins Nutritionals, Colette Heimowitz,
is telling health professionals at seminars.                           
Scientists have criticised the Atkins low-carbohydrate, high-fat regimen,      
fearing it might lead to heart disease and other health problems.      
Ms Heimowitz said people had read the phrase "eat liberally" as a licence to   
gorge on red meat. "Not making a distinction between one kind of protein and   
another, that was a mistake, and that is why we had to write another book, to
get the story straight."                                                                                                            
The Atkins revision places more emphasis on fish and chicken. Company         
representatives say Dr Robert Atkins, who died last year, always maintained   
that people should eat food other than red meat, but had difficulty getting   
that message out. The revised version explains how to follow his diet, not the
diet itself.                                                                                             
The Atkins regimen                                                   
But Atkins publications have never set limits on saturated fat and it now      
faces competition from other popular low-carbohydrate diets that call for less
saturated fat.                                                            
The Atkins regimen remains high-fat, but it is lifting the amount that should
be unsaturated - the kind that comes from most vegetable oils and fish.      
   
However, Ms Heimowitz said: "Even in the old book it says, 'Eat until you are
satisfied but not stuffed.' "                                        ...........................

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Jan 04 - 11:09 AM

The current Jan. 19 issue of Newsweek has an excellent article about carbs, and they go beyond the "glycemic index" to talk about "glycemic load." Most of us have heard about the glycemic index, which ranks carbohydrates by how much they boost blood sugar. But the effects of carbohydrates are better measured by glycemic load. Index is about how much total sugar the food will convert to; load is about the rate at which it converts, which is of partiuucalr interest to people with significant weight to lose who should be concerned about how their insulin response (and possible insulin resistance) may be affecting their efforts to lose weight.

The Newsweek article itself is not available online. But information about the underlying research is.

===============================================================

HARVARD HEALTH PUBLICATIONS

There are a number of items there that line up with my own experience as accurate and realistic. I like how they are organized-- each piece has an informative online abstract that gives good general guidance; then you can use this to do you own research or purchase their longer piece. They don't overwhelm you on the detail level before you get a chance to see if the basic idea makes sense for you.

Check out:

BEYOND ATKINS

Glycemic index and glycemic load for 100+ foods
(unclear whether this is truly a LOAD chart of an INDEX chart)

Exercise: A Program You Can Live With



Further detail:

GLYCEMIC INDEX AND LOAD

============================================================

In the end, it goes back (again and again and again) to whole grains, whole foods-- complex carbs. But the Glycemic Load can help you spot the ones that work the best (high index-low load), and it also can help you spot which high-index-high load foods may need to be served with higher amounts of protein, because protein also reduces the load.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 19 Jan 04 - 09:52 PM

G'day Brett,

"... My only concern is how the Atkins diet, with it's reliance on proteins, will affect my cholesterol levels..."

You are probably right ... the latest from the Atkins Foundation (this week) is that they are revising the meat list to reduce the fat / cholesterol loads ... probably not changing amounts but paying closer attention to avoiding the "bad" fats and the fattier meats.

I notice Susan's post above deals with Glycæmic Index. This has been the cornerstone of my dealing with Type 2 diabetes (along with keeping telling others ... and me "I am a diabetic ... but dealing with it well!). Once you study and digest the implications of a healthy Low Glycæmic Index diet, you find that it accords with many of the better suggestions in the vast amount of material above.

A GI diet is why I have dropped white bread (for, mostly, Soy & Linseed bread), stopped eating wheat-based cerals, avoid most rice (Basmati - and Aussie Doongara are fine low GI types, but most commercial rice is not). It's why I now eat a dinner with a small portion of lean meat or some fish ... and ¾ of the plate filled with vegetables. And, of course, I walk a lot ... but I have always done that, so it is no hurdle to increase distances.

I lost 10 kilograms (~ 22 pounds .. ?) fairly quickly ... but my doctor says she would like to see 10 kilos less of me next time! That's why I am working through this thread for some extra tips / inspiration / motivation.

Work at it mate! We want you around for decades to come. (And I want to be around to see it.)

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 08:56 PM

Well, I've come up with a quick way to lose 10 pounds. That mild flu that I thought I had was pneumonia. I spent a night at the hospital, suffering the usual indignities you have to suffer there, and that was the diagnosis. I am home now and on forced rest and recuperation. Except for the hospital meals I haven't had a real meal in days. My kitchen is empty of everything but dirty dishes. And typing this has worn me out.

My boss is bringing me some groceries this afternoon! Maybe I can eat again.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 01:01 PM

Look after yourself Naem, take care.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 02:05 PM

I was talking about health and such with Herself last night (I used to be very active... and now have had about 10 years or so of a nearly total sedentary life...   Depression at having to quit dancing probably had a lot to do with it, but I digress)

And while we were talking an add came on for Subway... remember Jerred? The guy who lost a lot of weight eating at Subway and walking? Well, hils 'low fat' samiches have been replaced by low carb stuff for the Atkins Meat Puppets... twice the cheese and bacon of any of thier other stuff or so it looks...

I remarked to Herself I was gonna write a health book called "Eat What Ya Want, But Get Yer Fat Ass Up Off The Sofa" (aimed mostly at me)

Today she sent me -This Link From The Globe & Mail-

Damn them and thier crafty ways!

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 04:25 PM

Weighty Issues is up and running. We had a crowd last night about 6PM EST. Of course some were curious skinny people who were shown the door...just kidding.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 07:06 PM

If the Amish are against modern devices and modern ways of life, how come they permitted pedometers?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 07:24 PM

Maybe not all are zelots, and would do it to help out other people?

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 07:53 PM

Anyone who is fat through greed, should be charged double on all forms of transport. It is really annoying being squashed up next to someone vastly overweight, especially when they are still cramming as much as they can into their mouths. If they had less money they would not be able to spend so much on their groceries.They also tend to sweat more, which can be awful if they haven't washed too well.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 10:10 PM

That bit of drivvel of course coming from a passerby with no name and no consideration for the importance of what is being discussed.

Brett, I'm glad you got yourself to the hospital. I'd been reading along how you weren't feeling good, went home shakey, and figured that the diet wasn't what was causing your problems. Now take very good care of yourself, because it takes a while to get over those symptoms of pneumonia. I've had a couple of coworkers come down with it over the last 18 months. They lost a lot of work time because of it.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 09:24 AM

That "bit of drivel" actually came from someone who has just had to endure a trans atlantic flight, squashed between two huge people.

They had bought one seat each, but their thighs invaded the space I had paid for, to the extent that my tray was unable to click into place, and yes they had an aroma of stale sweat.

Makes perfect sense to me, less money means less do'nuts. If people's greed has an effect on those around them, then they are entitled to be criticized for it. In the same way that I criticize smokers for making me inhale their fug.

This is not directed to the 1% of obesity which is caused by medical problems.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 09:37 AM

"GUEST" is someone trolling on a thread where people are discussing health and weight issues. He hopes to make other people feel bad so he can feel better. I pity this sort of person, who thinks he has some sort of moral high ground from which to conduct such sniping. While he may have been seated between people with fat around the midriff, how is he accounting for the excess fat between his ears?

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 09:46 AM

I was discussing health and weight issues.

If people were more accountable for their calorific intake, if the result effects others,maybe that would be an incentive for them to take more care with their diet.

Believe me the excess weight around their midriff was nothing compared with what was around their thighs. Their stomachs prevented their own trays clicking into place, this did not effect me.

Does someone pointing out others inconsideration make them feel bad? Well good, so they should.

Incidentally my name is CHIEF THREE FEATHERS OF THE GORGY TOTEM, but it didn't fit.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 10:04 AM

No, fathead, you're not "discussing" anything remotely related to health and weight issues. You're bitching and taking pot-shots in a place where you think you've found a vulnerable group of people to pick on. You're beneath contempt.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Kim C
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 10:04 AM

Sins, I am a skinny person who has to work hard to stay that way. Kin I still come to chats when I can remember they're on? ;-)

In a brief moment of inspiration a couple of weeks ago, I decided to sign up for a correspondence course in holistic nutrition. Part of the course is listening to Dr. Andrew Weil's Guide to Optimum Health on cassette. This is pretty fascinating, and I highly recommend it.

Brett, I have been eating Shredded Wheat and Bran. It's all grain, no sugar, high fiber. Sure, it tastes like wood chips, but the addition of a banana and some pecans does wonders. I usually have this for breakfast with a glass of kefir.

Let's talk about kefir for a minute. This is something Mister turned me on to years ago. Basically it's liquefied yogurt. The kind I get is low fat and relatively low carb. I would recommend it over the prefab yogurt-smoothies-in-a-bottle things. Yes, the calories are higher, BUT I think the overall nutritional information is better. Plus it's cheaper to buy one big bottle of kefir than five little yogurt smoothies.

It also makes a great snack on those occasions when I wake up in the middle of the night and can't get back to sleep.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 10:29 AM

Kim, have you heard of or tried villia? There are several spellings, but it is a cultured milk product that has a mild flavor along the lines of sour cream. It works very nicely in cooking. We've discussed it at Mudcat before so a search should bring up some sources. I just did a quick good search and find a fellow doing research on its effects of tumors, it looks like. I hope he has good news!

Villi is a scandinavian dairy product. I don't eat dairy any more, but I always liked this stuff. My father mail ordered starter from some folks down in California.

I, too, will plan to occasionally join that discussion thread. My main diet approach, though, is physical labor to keep the weight off. (I'm a hard core gardener, now that I have a yard where I can do that sort of thing!) I am in the "normal" range, but it fluctuates, and for me the most urgent reason for discussing diet and keeping of the few extra pounds is in the hopes that eating healthier will counteract the signs of approaching arthritis. One reason for stopping dairy is to combat the arthritis (my Dad stopped playing the guitar when his hands were too stiff so he couldn't form the cords comfortably). It also makes a big difference in allergies. If I didn't have a sinus reaction when I ate any dairy I'd still be culturing the villi.

Deckman sent this story a couple of years ago:

About "Villia." My memeory says there are something like 26 dialects of Finnish, all in a country the size of Western Washington and Western Oregon combined. This means that there are many different spellings to this wonderful food/drink. The next most common spelling is villi. I was raised on it. It's a 'clabbered' milk product, that requires a 'starter.' You add the milk, most any kind, to the starter, place it covered in a warm place for about three days. No, it's NOT yogurt. My Father's american nickname for it was 'string milk.' This was because of its ability to hold a three foot string of goo when lifted from the pot. I know it sounds awful, but believe me, it's "nector of the gods." It's very hard to find a good starter. My Grandmother's starter came with her from Finland, and I know it thrived for over 80 years. There are some serious communities of Finnlanders in America, like in Hancock, Minn. (Mich. ?) I suspect that villia starters are availble there, but I have no contacts ... I welcome the information. Years ago, I had the pleasure (honor) of meeting a Finnish immigrant when he was in his 80's. He's been a Northwest logger all his life, and NEVER spoke English. As I got to know him, I gave him some villia. He cried when he saw it, drank it down to the last drop, and asked for more. I reminded him that he needed to save some in order to replenish the pot. As he cried, he told me that he hadn't tasted it since he'd left home at age 15. That's VILLIA! CHEERS, Bob

Before I forget, Brett, are you beginning to feel better?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 12:10 PM

Bitching? Potshots? Beneath contempt?

You are a very rude person. If people who choose to be overweight,have an affect on those around them, they are entitled to know?

Like I said, this may be the spur they need to find help. They are obviously having trouble doing it for themselves, lack of self motivation etc.

There are many reasons people finally get help, a friend has just lost 13stone...she was one of the heaviest women in the UK and at the age of 40yrs, she took the plunge and joined a Rosemary Conley programme, and has just won Regional Slimmer of the year and £2000 to boot.She was on TV at New Year, when Rosemary Conley was honoured in the New Years Honour List. Her motivation was that she was so ashamed of her size and it's impact on those around her, that she refused to get on buses in rush hours. Yes people do tut tut

You on the otherhand are just plain stupid, and I haven't seen a diet that works for that, so I reckon you're stuck with it.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 12:43 PM

I find it hard to believe that you had TWO flight companions who were so heavy as to prevent their dinner trays from clicking into place. I am not a small guy NOW - after having lost 10 inches from my waist - and at my HEAVIEST could still seat the meal tray properly.

The thigh business though? Not totally due to weight - I know people who are UNDERWEIGHT who find airplane seats too narrow. I know I haven't been in an auditorium, a plane, or a movie thieatre in ages where my shoulders (and there isn't THAT much fat on my shoulders) do not overlap the seats on eaither side of me.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 12:54 PM

What you find hard to believe is of no concern to me.

Right then I'm off to the gym, with my rapidly shrinking pal.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Kim C
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 01:30 PM

Okay, lookit, I'm 5'3", 120, and even I feel cramped in a freakin airplane seat. I would rather drive than fly any day, unless I have to go across the ocean, in which case I don't have much of a choice.

Anyhow... I have never heard of villia. I will look into it. I do know, however, that some 19th century recipes call for soured or clabbered milk.

I read somewhere that milk doesn't actually spoil, it just ferments.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 01:32 PM

it probably doesn't go "harmful" - but it will sure go "dis-tasteful"

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Kim C
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 11:52 PM

Mmmm, yummy. ;-)

Say, I Googled villia and really didn't get anything.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 12:11 AM

yeah, I haven't had any luck this time either. I'll try some more searching and report back.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 11:04 AM

KimC, I wish you would come visit. Recipes, suggestions, comments are all welcome. Bring your sense of humor. The group is able to laugh at themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Kim C
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 12:53 PM

Well, all right. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 02:58 PM

I am feeling better. I will try to go to work today. By my best estimate I have lost almost 15 pounds on the pneumonia diet. I don't reccomend it.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 07:29 AM

Brett - as you say, loosing weight in extreme illness is not a good thing. As you get better, you can get back to eating food that is good for you & looking after yourself.

sandrA

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: freda underhill
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 08:07 AM

i tried googling Vallia - and came up with some references to a place in Finland or somewhere where they make fermented milk products..

fred

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 10:21 AM

Well you're on the right track. I suspect we need to send Deckman Googling and see what he comes up with. I thought some of the hits I got before might turn up, but I've had no luck. I did, however, finally finish that blankety-blank chapter I've been writing, so I have a little more leisure time in which to conduct this sort of search. I would try using a collection of terms, milk, culture, yogurt, starter, and various spellings of villia.

Those cultured dairy products are better for you than straight milk. I have made lots of yogurt over the years, and yogurt cheese. Except for the fact that I don't eat dairy now, I'd still be making it.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 11:59 AM

Well I need to loose about 3 stone. Since the problems with my knees has got worse I can't excercise and the weight seems to be piling on as I am less active. I don't come from an over weight family and I am the heaviest out of them all. I can't afford to go swimming so that is out of the question. I already eat a pretty healthy low fat diet with very few carbs. I have just started a diet plan called Herbal Life....its pretty much like slim fast but as I don't drink milk the shakes are made with fruit juice. There are also vitamin supplements etc with it. I have heard mixed reviews about this diet but I am giving it a go. It has been 3 days and I am starving!! I am eating fruit in between meals when I am peckish....which at the moment seems to be all the time!! The drinks and sweets trolley has just been round the office and I have resisited...I am very impressed with myself! I have drank copious amounts of water which has resulted in me dashing for the toilet every 30 minutes!!!

I have scared myself into losing weight as I have to have a big operation on my legs and I am worried about the anaesthetic. I am going to try my best and stick at this for the good of my health!

Keep up the good work guys I know how you are all feeling!!

Khatt

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Kim C
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 12:03 PM

Stilly, they are now marketing soy yogurt. I reckon soy milk can be fermented too.

I haven't tried the yogurt, but I like soy milk. For people who don't do dairy, or are watching cholesterol, I think soy milk can be a good alternative. And Chocolate Silk is a nice little treat!

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 12:05 PM

Khatt, that's the reason I gained weight this summer/fall, I had surgery on my foot and had to spend a fair amount of time with it up. Though I haven't tried them, I know there are exercises meant for people who are restricted in their movements. If you can't walk can you try some of those office chair exercises with lots of twisting and lifting limbs?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: musicmick
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 02:30 AM

Well. I'm back. Since I last posted on this thread, I dropped another 15 pounds. That makes 50, all told. I still want to lose another 35 to 45 this year. I am still on the old Weight Watchers regimen although I don't go to their meetings or pay their fees. I have their book of "points" and I keep well under the reccomended number for my weight. I don't excersise enough and, at age 63, my metabolism aint what she used to be but I am under a doctor's eye for safety sake.
I am a chronic overeater (It's made me what I am, today) so I still gorge myself but I do it with tons of salad or stir fry. I hope that my success will be encouraging to others in my age group.
I should add that it was the threat of diabedes that shocked me into this diet. I was over the sugar limit and the doctor told me that it was lose weight or reach for the needle. I guess it took that gun to my head to do the trick. I keep that image in my mind to keep myself in line, even though I am no longer in danger.
I wish you all luck and perserverence.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 06:42 AM

Went to the doctor today as a follow up on the pneumonia. I have officially lost 17 pounds since I bought the scales 2 weeks ago. Of course, it can't be all fat. But I haven't had any appetite through the worst of the flu and pneumoia. Only today have I had anything substatial to eat. On the way home from the doctor I had a taco salad at Carmen's! Yum! A scoop of rice and one of beans covered with veggies and salsa and a helping of grilled chicken on top. I ate half for lunch and the rest for supper.

I am also off sugar completely, except for what gets snuck into the food. I have decided I will not be able to fit my life style around a planned diet like Atkins. I am too loose a cannon. However, looking into those diets has illuminated some of the problems with my previous food choices. Way too many carbs, to start with. Now, I avoid cereal, having some whole wheat toast and fruit for breakfast. I have Splenda sugar substitute for my decaf coffee. Otherwise I add sweetness to nothing. No between meal snacks but if necessary I will have an orange or a banana.

And, of course a big hot fudge sundae...

Just kidding about the sundae. Do any of you remember the 2000 Year Old Man routine with Mel Brooks and Rob Reiner? The set up was a series of interviews with Reiner as the straight man and Brooks as the 2000 year old man. At one point reiner asks him how he managed to live so long. Brooks replied that all he ever eats or drinks is clear mountain water, 10 degrees above room temperature. reiner presses him and he insists that's all, that and a stuffed cabbage. He loves it! Those were some great skits.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 07:54 AM

I found out today that the new, nasty & quite different pain in both legs was not Deep Vein Thrombosis (hooray!!) So now I have a short course of very strong anti-inflammatories.

But as others have said, it's hard to exercise with permanently bloody sore legs & feet. (ps. the only exercise in my life is a small amount of walking).

Years back when the computer did my hands in (well, it was me overusing it that did the damange which is permanent) I was sent to hydrotherapy for a while cos water exercise are non-weight bearing. One of my friends does water-based exercises & I might ask her what she does. There is a heated pool down the road, but I hate chlorine & don't have a swimsuit. I could probably find one (they do come in larger sizes than I wear!) Maybe.

On the other hand, I am still eating less than I normally do & that is a good thing.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 10:30 AM

That's great, musicmic and Brett!

Brett, I only see one gap in what is an outstanding set of behaviors, that I want to encourage you to address right away. And that is, what is your PLAN for those times when the feelings get going and you want to reach for sugar or carbs? Can I make a suggestion? One thing in that plan could be heading for water to think about it and look at the feelings, while moving in the water. "Take it there and leave it there." Because you CAN take the behavior that is harmful to you and not only stop it (staying at zero instead of going into a mins zone)-- you can plug in a positive in it's place, going from minus 5 to plus 5 instead. For every behavior that you want to eliminate, you can substitute one that you like AND that takes you toward your goal instead of away from it.

~Susan

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 07:53 AM

Susan, I'm not sure what you mean by heading for water. If you mean swimming, those cravings come at night, before bedtime, when swimming is not available. My downfall comes in the lonely evenings when I am the only one in the house. There are a lot of those and I expect they will continue for the rest of my life. That is the battlefield on which I strive.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 08:44 AM

Brett, if I have Bad Stuff in the house, then during those empty moments, I eat it. If I don't have bad food, I don't. If I eat before I shop, I don't buy it. Don't have it around - it's only convenience food it it's there. Fruit makes a great snack. Nuts are pretty high calorie, but healthy, and I find I can eat a handful of them and they're as satisfying as a half bag of potato chips. If they're in shells, you won't eat as many. Un-buttered popcorn's a good filler, but doesn't have any nutritional value. Plan the snacks though. It's the behavior, not necessarily the food itself that's the problem. If you lose the weight you want to, then go off the diet and you still munch when you're bored, guess what's gonna happen.

It sounds like eating's what you do when there's nothing else happening. I do that too. The key is to substitute something OTHER THAN EATING that you can do on semi-autopilot - something you can concentrate on when you want, or do while you're watching TV or daydreaming. I grab an instrument or I do bead work. At other times in my life, I drew or painted. You might want to whittle (a tiny version of your canoe?), knit, make a scrapbook...etc. When you try to eliminate a 'fall-back' behavior, you really need to replace it with something else you can feel compelled to go back to, or those empty moments will drive you back to the 'same old used to be'.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 09:27 AM

Yes, I meant swim, but if you can't do that at that hour, what CAN you do that is more fun than hurting yourself?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: mg
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 11:43 AM

Brett...if you have average or high needs for protein (for someone of North Eur. stock) you are still eating a high percentage of carbs..perhaps too much for your metabolism. Please read about metabolic body typing...read Dr. Schwarzbein and Dr. Bernstein on the web...toast and fruit in the morning is total carb. If you are not registering as diabetic already, you are still probably in the process...saving a few teaspoons of sugar per day while still eating a lot of rice and bread is not going to make all that much difference..(but it is still very commendable) .bread metabolizes into sugar pretty darn fast...at least have some protein with it, and each time you have fruit have some protein with it....I don't know what you need exactly...but I'd bet the store that you do not have the type of metabolism that does well on a diet of high refined and/or simple carbs.. mg

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 03:24 PM

Jeri, I know what you mean. I am trying to keep the Bad Stuff out of the house. I am still trying to identify what I can keep in the house that is not Bad Stuff. Our fruit choices aren't as good here as you have back in the States but I do try to keep some oranges in the house. Doing things other than eating is difficult but I am working on that also.

As for what I am eating, I have cut out most of the carbs I was eating before. No more cereal, no more sugar, limited use of bread, no caffeine, etc. It works. My cravings are dying hard and I have to keep a tight rein on my urge to reach out and grab when something BAD is available. Yesterday for lunch I got fried chicken from the little cafeteria. They always serve it with two scoops of rice. I started my meal by dumping one of those scoops.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 07:04 AM

every small step is a victory!

Congratulations, my upbringing means throwing away or leaving food is not easy (did you ever get told to think of the starving children in wherever?)& food is a great comfort in times of sadness, happiness, loneliness, good company, boredom, busyness, hot weather, cold weather, at any time!

keep up the good work & look after yourself.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 03:46 PM

For me it was the starving children in Korea. And I would never dare use the return children use today (So send this to them, bet they wouldn't eat it either!). If I'd said that my next words would have been spoken alone in my bedroom through a haze of pain.

I went to the grocery store last night and I was hungry when I did, I went straight from work. It was difficult to walk past the fun food and only buy that which is good for me. I did wind up buying one treat. I bought some prunes. People may laugh at prunes but I like them.

Still working.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 06:44 PM

Try replacing your morning toast with oatmeal, Brett. I happen to love it with just a touch of salt. It comes in instant single serving packs for the microwave. Slow burning carbs last well into late morning.

You have made a lot of changes. Are you keeping a list? Have it handy for that day when you do have a chocolate sundae and are then tempted to go into the all or nothing mode. That's when you make one slip and then convince yourself that you are hopeless...and dive headfirst down the junk food aisle.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Naemanson
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 11:38 PM

Mmm, junk food.

Some rotten person has placed three packages of Hawaiian cookies on the lunch table. Two are a kind of chocolate macadamia nut cookie and the other is a box of special shortbreads. I am doing well so far.

Lunch was beef and brocoli with one scoop of rice and fine dene. I also have some unsweetened apple sauce and some nuts to munch on. As my pneumonia clears up I can feel my appetite returning and cravings are beginning. The fight is now moving into a higher level.

But tomorrow I am going snorkeling and then up to work on the canoe. That should help.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 07:30 AM

prunes - yummy, what's wrong with prunes?

I have some in the fridge & might add some to my usual late-night snack of a fresh date & a few spoonsfull of yoghurt. Bugger it - the fridge is empty of yoghurt, so I'll have a few grapes instead.

Fresh dates are another yummy fruit & are very sweet for those who like sweet stuff. They also cost a king's ransom so I buy 7 each week & usually have one per day tho sometimes I forget!

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: freda underhill
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 09:36 AM

.. you know, these last few posts are making me hungry...

so its off for some crackers with baked ricotta cheese, a slice of tomato, a pinch of celery salt and some basil....


yum.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 10:47 PM

It's mid-February. All our New Years resolutions have gone by the wayside. So how is everyone doing? I will be in the Weighty Issues room Wednesday at 6PM EST. Any takers?
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 06:17 AM

Well...I've come off the Herbal Life diet....I thought I was starving!!...anyway its not for me, with my painkillers and anitinflamatry tablets I need to eat 3 meals a day so I am now back on the low fat low carb diet...which I have more energy on and feel healthier! When my legs are jfixed next month and the stitches are taken out I will be swimming and doing aqua aerobics and going to the gym and terrorising the neighbourhood!!!

Khatt

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Tinker
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 06:23 AM

I can honestly say my weight is stubbornily the same, but I have dropped a jean size. This would be even more exciting if a trip to the back of my closet didn't reveal that the sizing in women's clothing has expanded as babyboomers did over the last fifteen years. My "old" size eights are probably size four's now. Oh well, think motivation....

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 08:57 AM

My wife and I are in the initial phase of the South Shore Diet. Kind of miss the evening white wine, the citrus juice and bagel/cereal in the morning, the pasta/potatoes in the evening. We'll see how it fares in a week or so.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Cluin
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 09:02 AM

For the girls: Sperm is fattening.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 09:15 AM

I'm waiting for blood work results on insulin issues, and have just finished a study of a book called Good Carbs/Bad Carbs, as well as a web survey of same. (I have several useful articles on Glycemic Index I can share via email if anyone would like what I found online.) I've also added quite a lot of dairy, and my menu has shifted to align with the low-index carbs and more protein, especially beans and fish. I'm feeling quite energetic on this regimen and getting more activity in as a result.

Khatt, I know quite a bit about aquatic rehab, if you want to PM.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 09:21 AM

Cheers Susan

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 09:41 AM

Good luck with the surgery and recuperation, Khatt! There is a period of immobility that you'll have to get through before you can be as active as before, so don't beat up on yourself if you gain a few pounds before you lose what you want.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 07:49 PM

Glad you said that Stilly - I was blaming my gained pounds on the sugared almonds I was scoffing whilst resting after my op!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 08:38 PM

One suggestion, which someone may have made. Any time you get peckish, log on to the Mudcat and take your mind off it. So long as there's no kind of food in the room with the computer, that can really work.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time for weight loss! HELP!!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 12 Feb 04 - 05:39 AM

Or snack on nuts or fruit.... not the leftover prawn crackers that my conscience says are too good to throw away and mustn't be wasted....

LTS

Subject: Glycemic Index Grocery List
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 11:50 AM

Counting carbs? Here's what I made up to carry in my wallet for grocery shopping. I'm giving a copy tpo Hardiman, too, so he can see what makes sense for me when he stops off at the store, plans a diunner or lunch out, or serves me up a plate when he cooks at home. My theory is that if the grocery $$ are finite-- as we all know they are-- then if you fill up your cart with the low-index foods, you'll also limit calories overall.

The following fits on an 8-1/2 x 11 sheet, landscape, in 4 columns of 11-point Garamond Condensed. The numbers are the glycemic index figures. PM me an email addy if you want it as a Word attachment.

~S~

===================================================================
* eat sparingly-- low in carb index but high in empty calories or fat.



V E G E T A B L E S

FREE VEGETABLES:
Alfalfa seeds, sprouted 1.28
Asparagus, cooked 2.63
Bamboo shoots, cooked 0.92
Beans, green, cooked 4.69
Broccoli, cooked 2.16
Cabbage, cooked 2.16
Cauliflower, cooked 1.41
Celery , celery root, 1.95 or <
Cucumber 1.8
Endive 0.25
Fennel, bulb 4.19
Greens, cooked
Hearts of palm, canned 2.22
Jicama 3.92
Lettuce 1.32
Mushrooms 2.94-3.57 (except shitake)
Okra, cooked 4.71
Parsley 3.03
Peppers, hot 3.00
Peppers, sweet red/green 4.63
Radicchio 3.58
Radishes 1.99
Scallions (green onions) 4.74
Snow peas <15
Spinach, cooked 1.35
Squash, summer, cooked 2.91
Squash, zucchini, cooked 2.53
Tomatoes, tomato juice 3.54

LOW-GLYCEMIC VEGETABLES:
Peas, dried 22
Carrots, cooked 39
Canned lentil soup 44
Canned beans 45
Canned baked beans 48
Green peas 48


INT'MED-GLYC INDEX VEGETABLES:
Sweet corn 55
Beets 64



F R U I T

FREE FRUIT:
Raspberries 4.77
Strawberries 4.72

LOW-GLYCEMIC FRUIT:
Cherries 22
Plum 24
Grapefruit 25
Peach 28
Canned peaches, natural juice 30
Dried apricots 31
Apple 36
Pear 36
Apple juice 41
Grapes 43
Orange 43
Pineapple juice 46
Grapefruit juice 48
Kiwifruit 52
Orange juice, not from concentrate 52
Banana 53

INTERMED GLYCEMIC INDEX FRUIT:
Canned fruit cocktail 55
Orange juice from frozen concentrate 57
Canned peaches, heavy syrup 58
Canned apricots, light syrup 64
Raisins 64
Pineapple 66




E G G S   &   D A I R Y

FREE EGGS AND DAIRY:
Buttermilk, lowfat 4.79Cheese, cheddar 1.28
Cheese, Edam 1.43
Cheese, Gouda 2.22
Cheese, Swiss 3.38
Neufchatel, 2.66
Cottage cheese, 2% milkfat 3.63
Eggs 1.22
Half and Half 4.30
Goat milk 4.45
Milk, 2% milkfat 1.66Ricotta cheese, whole milk 3.04

LOW-GLYCEMIC EGGS AND DAIRY:
Low-fat yogurt, artificially sweetened <15
Soy milk 30
Fat-free milk 32
Low-fat yogurt, sugar sweetened 33
Custard 43
*Low-fat ice cream 50
*Ice cream 61



S O U P S   
Tomato soup 38
Canned black bean soup 64
Canned green pea soup 66



S T A R CH

LOW-GLYCEMIC INDEX STARCH:
LESS THAN 55

Turnips, cooked 2.9
Pumpkin, cooked 3.80
Pearled barley 25
Fettuccine 32
Spaghetti 41
All-Bran 42
Macaroni 45
Banana bread 47
Long-grain rice 47
Parboiled rice 47
Bulgur 48
Oat bran bread 48
Old-fashioned oatmea l49
Cheese tortellini 50
Special K 54
Sweet potato 54

INTERMED-GLYCEMIC INDEX STARCH: 55 TO 70

Brown Rice 55
Linguine 55
Oatmeal cookies 55
Popcorn 55
Muesli 56
White rice 56
Pita bread 57
Mini shredded wheats 58
Bran Chex 58
Blueberry muffin 59
Bran muffin 60
Hamburger bun 61
Macaroni and cheese 64
Couscous 65
Quick-cooking oatmeal 65
Instant oatmeal 66
Grape-Nuts 67
Stoned Wheat Thins 67
American rye bread 68
Taco shells 68