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BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: akenaton Date: 03 Aug 11 - 02:08 PM Ron....your writing style leaves much to be desired,do you really need to make so many personal and insulting observations? Why don't you examine Charley's post....He and I disagree on a regular basis, yet I am beginning to look on him as a friend rather than an enemy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 03 Aug 11 - 08:04 AM akenaton- It is certainly in the interests of Gadhafi to reinforce suspicion among the Rebels of the motives of their more conservative "comrades." It's hard to tell from our perspective whether this "Islamic militia unit" was a rogue element or a more general faction which includes a majority of Islamic militants. One could conjure up a scenario where the CIA is well aware of the assassination plans (and evidently detailed plans have been recovered now) of the February 17 Martyrs' Brigade and was happy to watch them executed so their favorite general Klalifa Haftr, shipped back to Libya early in the campaign from his exile in Fairfax, Virginia, could assume control of the Rebel military operations. But that might be giving the CIA too much credit. Meanwhile on the battlefield towns and villages in both the East and West are still switching back and forth between Rebel control and control by Gadhafi forces. I may go back to playing chess, a brutal game but one where there is a minimum of collateral damage. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: akenaton Date: 03 Aug 11 - 03:09 AM My point Ron....as you well know, is that the people who killed the general belong to an "Islamic militia".....why would these people conceivably want to support Col Gadaffi? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Ron Davies Date: 02 Aug 11 - 09:52 PM "these people are Moslem fundamentalists". Some are. And a good number in Libya, including, it appears, those in charge of the provisional government, are not As witness, for instance, the explosion of press freedom in Benghazi. All sorts of newspapers. How many newspapers in Tripoli are not controlled by the Gaddafi regime? But please don't let us stop you, Ake, from smearing any group with one of the labels guaranteed to be a red flag for Westerners--in your continuing pathetic attempt to justify deserting the rebels at this point. And though it pains me to say it, pathetic is more and more the word for those trying to end the West's military support for the rebels. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: bobad Date: 01 Aug 11 - 05:05 PM Well Ake, the information I have came from an Al Jazeera reporter in Benghazi. "Al Jazeera's Tony Birtley, reporting from Benghazi, said the battle was launched to subdue elements of Gaddafi's forces that had been operating as a "fifth column" within the opposition ranks. He said that documents had been found at the base that linked the brigade to Gaddafi." If you have a better source please share the info with us or are you just inventing facts that buttress your ideology? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: akenaton Date: 01 Aug 11 - 04:23 PM Teribus.....you must be fair, Iraqi women do not see much advantage from the new "democracy", it is simply a cover for resurrected Islamism. Just like the insurgency in Libya. Bobad.....I cant believe that you are swallowing that nonesense about Gadaffi loyalists. These people are Muslim fundamentalists, who were kept down by Gadaffi, in the same manner as fundamentalism in Iraq was punished by Saddam. We have shot ourselves in the foot .....again! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Teribus Date: 01 Aug 11 - 02:50 PM "The idea that Iraq is unified or democratic is ludicrous," Apparently a damn sight more unified and democratic than Ba'athist Syria at the moment. "officials dodging IED's," Sure you are not confusing things with Afghanistan? "military abuses by U.S. soldiers there," US troops have not been patroling the streets, roads or countryside of Iraq since 2009. The US at the moment have no front line combat units operating in Iraq. US Forces still present in the country are support troops and they will all have been withdrawn by the end of December this year. "the pollution of water," I think that you will find that Saddam Hussein was responsible for that. "the cancers rampant in the area," Absolutely amazed that all these cancers are all put down exclusively to use by US Forces of depleted uranium munitions, which you could actually grind up into a powder and eat by the bucketfull and it would not do you, or any of your prospective offspring one whit of harm. Apart from this the areas where these cancer occurences are "rampant" were not the scenes of major combat where DU munitions were used (Fallujah and Basra). During Desert Storm there were no major armoured battles around either city. In the wake of the 2003 invasion there were only two battles in Fallujah, the second one all but 2% of the civilian population fled the battle and the insurgents had no armour so exactly what use would DU munitions be to the attacking force (USMC) - Answer to that is none whatsoever DU munitions are heavy for use against personnel there are far more effective options that are lighter meaning that your time over target is improved. But let's see what did happen around Basra in the wake of Desert Storm - Remember the Shia uprising that the President of the US did all he could to foment then did the square root of F**k All to support. Saddam's military were alowed to fly helicopters Mil-24 Hind Gunships who are armed with cannon that fire DU ammunition. Basra and the Shat al-Arab home of the Ma'adan, the Marsh arabs where Saddam drained the marshes and poisoned the water by way of reprisals. How about Fallujah, could all those "rampant" cancers have anything to do with Saddam's chemical and biological warfare reseach labs and manufacturing plants located in the area? "the corrupt political leaders that are subservient to American political interests" You mean the ones who are so subservient that they have told the Americans to quit by the end of this year? Or the ones who are so subservient that the bulk of all Iraqi oil exploration and field development licences have been awarded to those who were Iraq's traditional trading partners (Russia; China & France) "and the specious training of the Iraqi police force of which those trainees will wind up killing American soldiers." Best get their skates on then they have less than 5 months left to fulfil your prediction as all US troops will have left. Oh, but hang on though weren't you one of the camp who predicted that: - The CPA was a permanent feature - There would never be any elections - Iraq would splinter in three - The US would steal Iraq's Oil |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: bobad Date: 01 Aug 11 - 01:13 PM The fact that it led to the uncovering and disbanding of a fifth column of Gaddafi loyalists in the midst of the rebels can't be anything but positive going forward. Also, France has released $259 million in frozen funds to the NTC. On the negative side the rebels lost control of the village of al-Jawsh at the foot of the strategic western Nafusa mountains. So it goes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 01 Aug 11 - 11:37 AM Evidently "the assassination of General Younes" is not of interest to our community of ardent posters. I was thinking this assassination might be a critical tipping point in how the public within Libya, not to mention the Western World, views this uncivil war. But I've misjudged history in the making before. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 01 Aug 11 - 09:20 AM Imperfect democracies can still be better than the alternative, and historically have improved over time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Ron Davies Date: 01 Aug 11 - 08:57 AM "another to replace him" . Meaning another vicious dictator who claims to embody Libya. Not likely. And if you are whining about the chancy prospects for a perfect democracy in Libya, please specify where in the world you have found such a democracy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Ron Davies Date: 01 Aug 11 - 08:51 AM "ceasefire followed by negotiations". No. And what's more I think the poster knows why. I have already alluded to the problem. The Gaddafi regime still has more money and more weapons--thus more staying power. As the poster well knows, the Libyan war is already unpopular with sizable numbers of Westerners---including the poster himself. Once the West stops bombing Gaddafi's forces, it will be very difficult to persuade various Western electorates to start up again. But without that the rebels will be stymied. Which I think is what the poster has in mind in his disingenuous call for a ceasefire. Either that or he is not thinking through the consequences. We may still see an unofficial ceasefire-- for Ramadan--and the problem I have noted will become obvious to all. Also, if we accept a partition of Libya--against the wishes of both Gaddafi and the rebels--we accept the legitimacy of Gaddafi's regime. And he will have a legal claim to at least part of the frozen funds. With results I have already noted. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 31 Jul 11 - 01:36 PM "the Egyptian military are calling the shots eroding the progress of the Arab Spring." I thought that the army had taken interim control with popular consent. Elections are pledged. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Stringsinger Date: 31 Jul 11 - 12:01 PM You can't bomb ideas into a foreign country. Education, not bombs is the answer. Also, constructive behavior not destruction builds trust. Gadaffi may go but there will be another immediately to replace him unless the root causes are addressed, a re-education about the nature of fundamentalism and the damage it does, a relinquishing of political opportunism on the part of the conquerors, and the placing of military solutions into a lesser role in the solving of international affairs. Look at Egypt where the Muslim Brotherhood is growing and the Egyptian military are calling the shots eroding the progress of the Arab Spring. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Stringsinger Date: 31 Jul 11 - 11:56 AM Don't underestimate the oppressive religious influence of Islam in Tripoli or Egypt. This creates sectarian wars, Bahrain in particular.The idea that Iraq is unified or democratic is ludicrous, officials dodging IED's, military abuses by U.S. soldiers there, the pollution of water, the cancers rampant in the area, the corrupt political leaders that are subservient to American political interests and the specious training of the Iraqi police force of which those trainees will wind up killing American soldiers. They have a "higher calling" to Islam. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: akenaton Date: 31 Jul 11 - 11:19 AM Ah but who are the people?...are they the supporters of the Col, or the insurgents? Would they still have been a rag tag gang without OUR help? Are they about to confront "liberal democracy"? "The people" is indeed a beast of muddy brain. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Teribus Date: 31 Jul 11 - 05:39 AM "They now visualise a split nation after a bloody civil war...just like Iraq." Whatever happens in Tunisia; Egypt; Yemen; Syria; Bahrain and Libya will happen. It will happen because for the first time in any of those countries existences the "people" will decide and the "people can chose whatever they want. Militant fundamentalist Islam is an evil and a force that will have to be confronted exactly as fascism was and exactly as communism was in their day. If what the people of the arab nations mentioned elect to chose extreme fundamentalist regimes to rule then that is no problem it merely serves to better define the enemy and steps can be taken counter their influence. So what if Libya is split? By the way could you tell me when Iraq had its "civil war" and when it split? As far as I am aware Iraq still exists as a united country under a democratically elected government - more than can be said for - Tunisia; Egypt; Yemen; Syria; Bahrain or Libya. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: akenaton Date: 31 Jul 11 - 04:39 AM The Times are today rowing back from their position on Libya....calling it a mess and calling into question the motives of the insurgents. They now visualise a split nation after a bloody civil war...just like Iraq. I'm no conspirisy theorist, but could this have been the objective all along, was the Arab spring simply an excuse to de-stabilise the whole region? We certainly have a history of using these tactics. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 30 Jul 11 - 05:36 PM The UN resolution all that time ago called for an immediate ceasefire. The UN Secretary General recently repeated this call. It is still the only realistic way forward. Ceasefire followed by negotiations. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Ron Davies Date: 30 Jul 11 - 05:26 PM Excuse me, your quote was "money has no worth". But my post is still totally valid. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Ron Davies Date: 30 Jul 11 - 05:25 PM "money has no meaning". That proves what kind of a fantasy world you live in. The rest of us live in the real world. With $60 billion, dear Muammar could rather handily carry out his plan--already announced--to bring devastation and terrorism to the West. Which obviously is just peachy with you--since despite being asked multiple times how you would prevent it, you have come up with precisely zero solutions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: akenaton Date: 30 Jul 11 - 10:14 AM Bullshit rating.....0.06. :0) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: akenaton Date: 30 Jul 11 - 10:08 AM Ron...I have absolutely no interest in "Col Gadaffi's billions"....money is a mirage and can be made to disappear at will. Money to me has no worth, other than to keep me and mine fed, I look forward to the day when it and the stinking system it supports are consigned to the dustbin. I am sure the billions will end up financing some nice "liberal" government somewhere and giving them the opportunity to bomb the shit out of somebody completely different. "WE are talking about Libya only".....yes?? Don't you see what is happening?.....Didn't I tell you the masks would soon fall? Egypt is the template, examine it well, for it is also the future. The irony is, that you do not see the Trojan Horse; you who have everything to lose by way of ideology, supposed freedom, and "equality".....While I, who would be happy to see the end of this form of Capitalist "liberal democracy" call out the warning! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Ron Davies Date: 29 Jul 11 - 09:34 PM Ake--just answer the question about the $60 billion. Each situation is different. We are talking about Libya--only. Your question-dodging skills are so advanced, you should consider a career move to politics. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Jul 11 - 08:57 PM Here's a link to a more complete report via Al Jazeera of the assassination of General Younes: Click here for report "Abdel Fattah Younes and his aides were killed by gunmen on Thursday, creating a power vacuum at the top of the opposition military hierarchy and raising questions about who was responsible. Ali Tarhouni, a rebel minister, said that a militia leader, who had asked to fetch Younes from the frontline near the oil town of Brega, had been arrested and had confessed that his subordinates had carried out the killing." Gadhafi spokesmen claim that Al Qaida was behind the assassination. The CIA has no comment but their favorite general is ready to take over as commander and chief. "An angry Mohammed Agoury, a member of the rebel special forces, told the AP news agency that he was present when a group of rebels from a faction known as the February 17 Martyrs' Brigade came to Younes' operations room outside Benghazi before dawn on Wednesday and took him away for interrogation. Agoury said he tried to accompany his commander, but Younes "trusted them and went alone". "Instead, they betrayed us and killed him," he said. The February 17 Martyrs Brigade is a group made up of hundreds of civilians who took up arms to join the rebellion. Their fighters participate in the front-line battles with Gaddafi's forces, but also act as a semi-official internal security force for the opposition." This is just the kind of "shot in the foot" that will greatly undercut the momentum that the Rebels have been slowly achieving in the last few weeks. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: bobad Date: 29 Jul 11 - 07:07 PM "Satisfied???" I take it this is directed at the people of Egypt who organized to oust their tyrant and who will now attempt to democratically elect the leadership they want. As much as you dislike democracy it beats hell outta tyrannical dictatorship IMO. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: gnu Date: 29 Jul 11 - 06:58 PM hmmmm... if the US defaults on it's loans, will it still be able to chuck cruise missles around willy nilly like they were children's toys? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 29 Jul 11 - 06:22 PM akenaton- Yes, there may well be a conservative Islamic take-over of the Egyptian "Arab Spring" but it's not over yet, just one more large public demonstration. I'm more concerned about who ordered the murder of General Younes, and the credentials of the general next in line to replace him. The murder of Younes may have been carried out by Gadhafi agents or by Rebel security agents who were ordered to bring him back for questioning. The story so far does not add up. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: akenaton Date: 29 Jul 11 - 06:03 PM Satisfied??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Ron Davies Date: 28 Jul 11 - 10:52 PM And I still want to know the answer regarding the $60 billion. Particularly since dear Muammar has promised the West devastation and terrorism. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Ron Davies Date: 28 Jul 11 - 10:50 PM Younes, supposedly head of the rebel army, is dead. The death is a fact. Circumstances unclear. Stand by for Ake, Good Soldier, and similar intellectual giants to tell us this proves NATO should not be involved in a murky conflict. Countdown: 3-2-1........... It proves nothing of the kind. It only proves no war is without setbacks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Ron Davies Date: 28 Jul 11 - 10:42 PM "trapped" , master plan", etc. I see the king of purple prose is still at it. Nice to know some things don't change. Dewar's, and Ake's flights of fancy. Too bad he's so divorced from reality. But it's still entertaining. It seems that if you're left of center, logic and sense are just a hindrance to "expressing yourself." Still waiting for your answer as to, if you get your wish and NATO drops support of the rebel council--now recognized as Libya's only legitimate government by many states---how you propose to keep the $60 billion, now frozen, out of Gaddafi's hands. Can't understand why you haven't managed to answer the question--you seem to have time to rabbit on about everything else. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: akenaton Date: 28 Jul 11 - 12:03 PM According to the Times reporter....it is now a given that Nato involvement was to impliment regime change.....We are now in a stalemate position, but we are trapped....as we cannot be seen to have failed in another intervention. It is exactly like Iraq and Afghanistan, now it is about not losing face...what a shower of fucking idiots....or are they? Perhaps that is the master plan, turn the Middle East and North Africa into a War Zone. They are leaking stuff about "democracy" being a far off dream, as I said, Muslim Fundamentalism rules!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 28 Jul 11 - 09:11 AM It's true that it's looking likely that Gadhafi will hang on past the end of July but I'm still hopeful that he may wise up and make a run for it. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Ron Davies Date: 28 Jul 11 - 09:04 AM He's obviously going to lose his bet about July. That was always likely. However, those who oppose Western military participation in Libya have yet to come up with any remotely reasonable argument for deserting the rebels now. I am above all still patiently waiting for them to tell us what secret assurances they have that when Gaddafi gets access to the frozen $60 billion--which they no doubt advocate--- he will not use that money to either acquire a nuclear bomb or sponsor terrorism all over the world. Just answer the question please--we don't need whining about how the West allegedly engages in terrorism---an assertion ridiculous on its face and not deserving of more discussion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: The Sandman Date: 27 Jul 11 - 06:44 PM Charley Noble you have 3 days left. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Teribus Date: 27 Jul 11 - 10:53 AM Reported on BBC this morning: Reporters taken along with their Gaddafi minders to a supposed site of a UN/NATO strike. Told that so many civilians had been killed and that people/bodies were still trapped in the rubble. Reporters observed that at no time in the supposed rescue operation was any halt called to stop and listen for signs of life. Asked if it would be possible to see, just see, not interview, survivors in hospital the reporters were told no that would not be possible. Asked if it would be possible to see the graves of those who had been killed, the reporters were told no that would not be possible. Wonder why?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Ron Davies Date: 26 Jul 11 - 10:59 PM And your naivete in swallowing Gaddafi's oh-so-objective number on the Libyans killed in protests is so charming. Look, we will never have an accurate number on that til after the war is over. That argument is even more feeble than your others. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Ron Davies Date: 26 Jul 11 - 10:54 PM "hated by other Arab leaders". Wrong. By some. Not by others. Particularly not the ones who benefited from his oil money largess. More to the point is the old question: why have half his people (or more) turned their backs on this beloved leader--and many are willing to die to oppose him?" Time at long last for you to take off your blinders, Ake. Your excuses for deserting the rebels now are worse than threadbare. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 26 Jul 11 - 09:07 PM Here's an article from Der Spiegel that should interest those who participate in this thread ... Tribal Rivalries Complicate Libyan War biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: akenaton Date: 26 Jul 11 - 03:07 AM Weak post Teribus, as Gadaffi's Libya was the best, in terms of caring for his people, amongst Arab states. Gadaffi was hated by other Arab leaders because of these policies. As far as mercenaries go....I did not claim that "they did not exist" You have stated catagorically that they were brought in "to shoot civilians." Gadaffi has stated that there were a few civilian deaths during the protests.....he says around ten, I have seen nothing to disprove that figure and it is insignificant compared to the numbers killed in other Arab States. Or the numbers killed in air strikes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Teribus Date: 26 Jul 11 - 01:08 AM Akenaton are you suggesting that nobody ordered the shooting of civilian protesters? Did doing that just seem a good idea at the time to those who actually did the shooting? I somehow doubt that. Mercenaries have been captured Akenaton, please do not try to claim they do not exist. The other big point of difference. the Armies in most of the countries of the Arab World exist not to "defend the nation" but to "defend those in power", they do not look outwith their borders for enemies to fight they are there to suppress their populations. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Ron Davies Date: 26 Jul 11 - 12:00 AM It's obvious to any thinking person--though perhaps that excludes our dear friends who oppose Western military support of the Benghazi rebel council---that it's just not a good idea to split your country. Neither Gaddafi nor the rebels are in favor of it. In fact the ones who seem to be in favor of this idea are those Mudcatters still pathetically trying to justify deserting the rebels. And pathetic is certainly the right word to describe said posters. In the words of my favorite foreign policy analyst, Shania Twain: That don't impress me much. However, perhaps this thread is leaning towards becoming a music thread. My contribution (unless this has already been suggested) would be something starting along these lines: Gaddafi Gaddafi Gaddafi--he take the money and run Venezuela |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: akenaton Date: 25 Jul 11 - 06:41 PM "The present troubles Dick were caused by Gaddafi ordering his soldiers to shoot unarmed civilian protesters and when some of them refused Gaddafi brought in foreign mercenaries from Mali, Chad and Ghana to shoot them" Now Mr T.... that is so unlike you. You have absolutely no way of verifying that statement. How do you know that the Col personally ordered the shooting of civilians.....Did Mrs Thatcher personally order the shooting of civilians in Derry?.....I doubt it! You have no wat of knowing whether or not the Col brought in mercenaries to "shoot civilians".....A captured govt soldier this week told the insurgents that he had seen no mercenaries. He may have recruited soldiers to bolster troops. The insurgents CERTAINLY HAVE.....British, Spanish, American, French, complete with a huge armoury of very offensive weapons |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Teribus Date: 25 Jul 11 - 06:07 PM "Libya was divided up like most of Africa regardless of tribes, Western Libya (Tripolitania) is supporting gadaffi, the West should stop interfering, their interference in dividing Libya up, regardless of tribes has caused the present problems." Oddly enough what we know as Libya has existed and rubbed along rather well since 1952. The bit that seems to support Gaddafi is the bit around Tripoli and even then only some of that Cyrenaica is definitely against him as are the mountain tribes to the West of Tripoli and the Feddan in the South West. The present troubles Dick were caused by Gaddafi ordering his soldiers to shoot unarmed civilian protesters and when some of them refused Gaddafi brought in foreign mercenaries from Mali, Chad and Ghana to shoot them. None of the rebels are separatists, nobody wants to see Libya broken up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: The Sandman Date: 25 Jul 11 - 05:31 PM charley, you have a week ,and another bet lost. libya was divided like most of africa regardless of tribes up, western libya is supporting gadaffi, the west should stop interfering, there interference in dividing libya up, regardless of tribes has caused the present problems |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Charley Noble Date: 25 Jul 11 - 05:20 PM LH- When you put it that way, I guess I'll have to be even more persuasive. So, you think that we've really got old Gadhafi by the ear! "Hey, you pile of camel dung, ship out to Venezuela!" Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli Donuel-April, 2011 From: GUEST Date: 25 Jul 11 - 12:11 PM Poster appears to be Donuel
I am not afraid of you Little Bitty Hawk. Your infidel words are hollow and empty. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: akenaton Date: 25 Jul 11 - 10:20 AM Amen.... :0) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011 From: Little Hawk Date: 25 Jul 11 - 09:38 AM Religions don't get overthrown, stringsinger. They evolve with time and they change significantly. They adapt to changing societal norms. A brief study of what's happened in Christianity in the last 2,000 years will clearly illustrate my point, and the same thing will inevitably occur with Islam, in fact has been occurring in the last 1500 years, despite retrograde efforts by fundamentalist factions within the religion. There's always a conservative part of a religious community that wants to keep things frozen in stone and do them like they were done "back in the year One", but they are usually in the minority. Religions change, just as other things in society change. You're never going to see Christianity or Islam or Buddhism or any other significant religion in this world overthrown, you're going to see them evolve, change, and adapt to new ways of thinking. Now, I know that isn't what you want to see.... ;-) But too bad, cos you can't always get what you want! ;-) You suggest overthrowing Islam by the power of reason. Aha! That's an excellent idea, to use reason...but reason doesn't overthrow religions, it re-interprets them and comes up with a far more reasonable version of them. That's evolution. Your desire to eradicate religions entirely from this world is not that of a man inclined to reason, it's that of a fanatic bent on forcing everyone else to think the way he wants them to. He figures that since he isn't religious...therefore they shouldn't be either! Sorry. That's not reasonable. It's as unreasonable as insisting that no one be gay, because you aren't gay or that no one should eat lobster, because you don't eat lobster. **** As to the rest of you...still busy kicking the old Libya can around, eh? Okay, here's the thing. You know what absolutely terrifies Muammar Ghadaffi? You know what keeps him awake at night and causes him to despair for his chances of survival? This thread on Mudcat! Yeah, that's right. Every morning old Muammar turns on his computer immediately after doing prayer, and he breaks out into a cold sweat as he reads the dire predictions and burning accusations from various worthy gents here who make it a daily habit to utterly damn and destroy Muammar Gadhaffi by way of the keyboard and to pursue him digitally, yea even beyond the grave!!! He shakes in his boots. He begs Allah to save him from the terrors of Mudcat condemnation. His hopes dwindle to zero and he whimpers and moans and beats his little fisties on the ground...just like Saddam, Osama, Manuel Noriega, and a host of other prime baddies used to do. This place reduces such evil types to a quivering pile of jelly on the floor! Doesn't it make you feel utterly glorious to be basking in the incredible power you wield here as you help to bring down the despicable Mr Gadhaffi? ;-) All I can say is..."Go, team, go!!!!!" |
