BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jun 16 - 07:03 PM

it's a struggle trying to think of the right words...

What I was grasping to say was..

your contemporaries, the writers and agitators 5 to 10 years or so older than us,
were a direct significant influence,
definitely informing the political punk and agit pop, & 2 tone music culture we were being inspired by... 😎

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jun 16 - 06:53 PM

Steve - it's the blokes of your age and experience, who's progressive ideas & example lead the way for us lefty leaning teenagers in the late 70s...
Around the time we provincial west country sixth form college kids were becoming politicised by Anti nazi league and rock against racism..

Me and my mates in our punk new wave band, were still works in progress, learning and exploring as we became more sophisticated in our thinking on cultural issues...

It seems so long ago now, and my memory is faded, but we read about Blair Peach in youth music papers like NME and Sounds, and student mags, and dodgy counter culture pamphlets and fanzines....

In my early 20s I was at a lefty Poly course, I also was on on the fringes of SWP;
and encountering much further leftwing 'revolutionaries' & anarchists [usually daft middle class twats..]..

yeah.. so long ago...

I'm sleepy, and not able to write too coherently..


anyway.. seriously.. cheers Steve mate...

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jun 16 - 05:53 PM

Well, pfr, most of my mates were SWP though I always refused to join. I was a long-standing member of Teachers' Rank And File, allied to the SWP, and the Anti-Nazi League. I was on the committee of East London NUT and a council member of the Inner London Teachers' Association of the NUT. At the meetings I always sat with Blair Peach, my mate who was killed by that SPG copper at Southall. You may have heard of him. I'll tell you a thing or two about Blair that, had you known him, you'd have agreed with me wholeheartedly. He didn't give a shit about owning stuff. He was lovely teacher of special needs children, just up the road from my school in Poplar, and he made every one of them feel special. Each and every one of them loved him to bits. His stands against racism, sexism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, homophobia and misogyny were unswerving and uncompromising and incredibly clear-sighted. He had a bad stammer but he was a mighty orator nonetheless. He loved to argy-bargy about politics over a pint or five with his mates and he was a laugh a minute. He was a mighty man, in spite of his slight physical stature, who would have made mincemeat in five minutes of the far lesser people such as bobad and Keith who post here. Blair's been dead for 36 years now but I feel he's right here with me when I have to confront the dishonest right-wing bigoted shitbags who infest these threads.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Jun 16 - 02:28 PM

Certainly not PFR and I'm surprise that you suggest such a thing.
The people I refer to were obsessed by the Palestinian problem, which is real enough, though it should have been sorted out years ago if the Palestinian people had not been led by a selection of corrupt brigands with the agenda of keeping the issue unresolved.
These people deliberately blamed the Israeli people for the plight of the Palestinians.....this led to Anti-Semitism.

I am neither racist, misogynist or homophobic, I simply try my hardest to give what I see as the truth in my discussions here, if someone asks me why I oppose homosexual marriage, I give straight answers.
I have no problems with any race or women.....it is how people behave that I am interested in not the colour of their skin or gender.

I see Islamic Fundamentalism as a dangerous madness. I see homosexuality as an extremely dangerous and unhealthy behaviour which should be neither criminalised ....or promoted.
I think women should be given as much respect as men in whatever job they do and the same remuneration IF they are capable of doing the job. There are some jobs to which women are unsuited.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jun 16 - 01:09 PM

Steve - can't remember the details.. I was 20, in a shit job, living in Leeds near the Uni at the time thatcher won..
There were hardcore nutter student political fringe groups in abundance...

The really scary feminists were campaigning for her to win [for obvious reason..]
and there were seriously barmy lefties who me and my mate [a politics student] were aware and came into contact with in pubs and the main lefty bookshop.

They despised Labour for being lackeys of capitalism.. and had high hopes thatchers victory would spark off the revolution...

Could one of them have been Ake when he was much younger...?????? 🙄

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jun 16 - 12:23 PM

Well I for one have never felt more depressed and downcast than when Thatcher got in in 1979, an election thrown away by Callaghan thanks to his hanging on through the winter. On top of that, one of my good mates had been bludgeoned to death by a copper on his way home from an election rally in Southall. There was no joy on the left of any kind whatsoever, pfr. Then, the year after, a thick-as-pigshit B-movie actor suckered the people of the US into electing him president. We knew that a destructive few years was in the offing and we were right. Show me any leftie who takes pleasure in a hard-right victory and I'll show you a bleedin' nutter.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jun 16 - 12:17 PM

Fair enough.. no arguing against transparency..

so now let's see all political parties, social institutions, religions, professions.. etc..
throw open their doors
and make public the details and named names
in their ongoing internal inquiries into all forms of racism and discrimination...??? 🙄

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Jun 16 - 12:03 PM

There is no proof that the Labour Party is guilty of anything the right-wing press and the Israeli propaganda industry is throwing at it, but it it interesting to see who leaps forward to support those claims.
JIm Carroll

Just Google Labour NEC anti-semitism investigations - see what you get, I suppose all the named Labour Party spokespersons could be imaginary, inventions of the press and the BBC. But if that were indeed the case then I would have thought that somebody in the Labour Party would have complained about it - wouldn't you.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jun 16 - 10:07 AM

There is no proof that the Labour Party is guilty of anything the right-wing press and the Israeli propaganda industry is throwing at it,

I did not cite any such sources, so why claim it Jim?
My quotes were of Labour's own NEC, and some prominent Labour members.
Do you really claim they all lie Jim?
It is much more likely that you people are all in denial of an obvious truth.

Pfr,
It's summer, it's a rare bright sunny day.. we must find more positive constructive thing's to do than this..... 😎

I have been enjoying the summer throughout. My couple of short posts a day, usually first thing and early evening, take up little time and a stimulating debate is one of my little pleasures, especially when I am certain of my ground and can reduce the opposition to just making baseless, smearing, personal attacks.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jun 16 - 08:37 AM

Ake could be thinking back to the dark days when Thatcher had just become Prime Minister, and there were tiny fringe groups of extreme nutters on the furthest spectrum of the left
who celebrated her victory as the start of the process of capitalism destroying itself...???

An era when racism, sexism and homophobia was still prevalent amongst older trade unionists and Labour party voters.
But that was an inevitable symptom of how rancidly prejudiced the entire British mainstream society and culture was in those dim dark unenlightened times...

I'd suggest my generation born in the late 50s / early 60s was the turning point.
Growing up educated to accept multiculturalism and progressive ideas of tolerance as a norm...???



Ake - perhaps it's different up there in Scotland were the rise of nationalism has conjured up all sorts of [daft ?] rationalisations to discredit and oust the Labour party...???

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jun 16 - 06:18 AM

"or many years and we fought all forms of racism, including antisemitism and Islamophobia,"
Absolutely - Jewish Revolutionaries helped found left politics in Britain and were pretty prominent throught my time there - Andrew Rothsteien, Pil Piratin, Manny Shinwell..... and later, my personal influences, the Suss family, Les Parrington, and Hugh Faulkner.
The left parties were founded on the dear of equality for all races and all cultures - I was on the National Committee of the Youth Organisation of one of those parties and I know what the policies where from inside out.
If there has been an influx of Anti-semitism into the Labour Party, it is a recent thing and possibly reflects the rise of racism and right-wing policies in Britain today   
To say that Antisemitism abounds on the left is simply a lie made up by an individual who claims to el left but espouses extreme left wing views - including racism and homophobia - completely alien to left philosophy
There is no proof that the Labour Party is guilty of anything the right-wing press and the Israeli propaganda industry is throwing at it, but it it interesting to see who leaps forward to support those claims.
JIm Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jun 16 - 05:49 AM

Well I was involved in "the hard left" for many years and we fought all forms of racism, including antisemitism and Islamophobia, tooth and nail, and we also fought homophobia and sexism tooth and nail. In many regards, we were ahead of our time. We would have booted you out within minutes. People like you with stinking, intolerant and bigoted attitudes to gay people and immigrants were anathema. You must have been on a different planet.

Keith, you'd better investigate the meaning of "irony." You appear to be clueless as to its meaning. How ironic, then, that you of all people should be telling me that I don't understand it. 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Jun 16 - 05:38 AM

I would also add that the British Parliamentary labour Party is rotten to the core and those who who are leading the witch hunt are no better than the committed socialists........they have another agenda, which is presiding over a Party in which no one rocks the global capitalist boat.....a Blairite never never land.

This of course does not affect the result of this particular discussion.....in which Keith and Mr T win easily on points.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Jun 16 - 05:26 AM

During my years of political involvement in the "hard left" I have seen plenty of Anti-Semitism. It abounds on the left.

Whether these folks actually believe it to be true is another matter, the left seem to like to use it as a political weapon and the people with whom I associated always used the maxim that the end justified the means.

That may well be true if we really want to see socio/economic change, but to suggest that Anti Semitism is not rife on the left of politics is just plain stooopid.

Keith should really be my opponent on all things political, but I at least understand that he is trying to get you all to see beyond your blinding and unrealistic ideology.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 02:49 PM

Keith - what I will say is...

There are no winners and losers.. we all each get a goldfish in a bag as a consolation prize for joining in....


It's summer, it's a rare bright sunny day.. we must find more positive constructive thing's to do than this..... 😎

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 02:26 PM

Give up lads.
You have no case and can not challenge the facts.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 01:23 PM

Give up lads
Call the warden
Jim, Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 12:57 PM

Jim and Pfr,

"Many have been accused of antisemitism by other Labour members
What evidence do you have for this -

I have quoted prominent Labour people referring to it.
Why would they lie?

How many are "many" - numbers please.

I do not know. Fifty had been suspended a few weeks back, but there have been more since then.

This is typical of one of your distortions "the entire NEC" of the party say it is
You've lied from the start and you are still lying.

If it is a lie, it is not my lie.
It was reported in Labour List, and again, why would they lie?.
Would you like the link again?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 12:38 PM

Keith.. On the other hand...

Maybe you know exactly what has been said and choose to forget for your own devious purposes...????


For some time now, I have been reminded of a quote I wanted to use here, but still can't remember the name or source..

Anyway, sometime in the last few months I saw a news item where an old British establishment gentleman traitor/spy from early cold war era
was addressing a room of KGB recruits [???]

He jovially instructed something like this

"If you are ever caught and interrogated, no matter what they do to break you down, don't admit to a thing, always deny everything..."... 🕵

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 12:18 PM

Keith - all that has been addressed so many times in this thread by various people, in so many written styles, providing all kinds of facts and detail..

Yet you can't remember...

.. and you wonder why we are becoming concerned for you...?????


You're now more like a punch drunk defeated boxer, grimly instinctively clinging to consciousness until the final bell..
barely able to see through bruised & bloodied swollen eyes, can't remember who or where he is..
But is determined not to be seen to fall because he is still convinced he will be declared the winner... 🏆

It's not heroic, his aides should have thrown the towel in for his own safety several rounds ago...

Brutal and hard to defend, but that's boxing....

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 12:15 PM

"Many Labour people have been suspended, "
Suspensions have happened because - the fact that if accusations have been made action have to be taken to investigate those accusations accusations do not mean or even imply that those accused are guilty - how many times has this to be repeated before it sinks in?
"Many have been accused of antisemitism by other Labour members
What evidence do you have for this - who has accused whom and what are the grounds for their having done so?
How many are "many" - numbers please.
Have just been reading the Gatestone Zionist site - they are describing those calling for the boycott of Israel "Antisemitic" - is that where you are getting your "many" from?
The subtance of all your claims has been blown out of the water by your many
This is typical of one of your distortions "the entire NEC" of the party say it is
You've lied from the start and you are still lying
You are making it up
Ever thought of becomign an Amarican senator -= they're good at witchunts
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 11:44 AM

Eveyboy (exept Bobad - .......Has challenged what you have said

Really?
What was the challenge to the fact that 1.Many Labour people have been suspended, 2.Many have been accused of antisemitism by other Labour members, and 3.that it is a serious issue for the Labour Party according to its own NEC?

None, because they are all unchallengeable facts, and that has been my case all along.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 10:51 AM

Are you on any medication that affects cognisance and judgement...???

He was just the same long ago, before his current healty prolems, so that's likely not the answer.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 10:41 AM

"No-one has challenged the case I have been making."
Eveyboy (exept Bobad - which is as good as everybody)
Has challenged what you have said
You have been asked to provide proof that there is a serious problem with Antisemitism in the Labour Party - you respond with Dalek-like repetition that the Labour Party is taking it seriously - as they should
If they didn't take it seriously you'd be up on your char screaming "they're all Antisemites".
Any personal attacks here are a response to your appalling behaviour in attempting to fuck up a thread because it undermines your unquestioning support for Israel.
"I have no grudge."
You ooze grudge - if you didn't you would not be attempting to prove a problem exists before it has even been looked into.
The two people you have produced who claim there is a problem are both pro-Israeli activists, one with a political axe to grind with the present Labour leadership.
Your refusal even to acknowledge this, let alone challenge it is an indication of the dishonest way you argue
You have deliberately lied in claiming that you have linked to examples of many Labour Party members claiming there to be a problem - you have not
Such dishonest and repetitious behaviour elicits abuse.
When push comes to shove, there is no need for some of the anger being generated here, as understandable as it is - you have once again placed yourself in the limelight and are doing our job for us in demolishing your own case.
Personally, I don;t understand why anybody bothers even responding to you any more - it's tantamount to showering attention on a petulantly destructive child.
Time we all moved on to someone else, I think and leave him and his mate to disparaging the Irish - they can take it.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 09:50 AM

Steve,
Steve, it is morning in UK, and there is no Gracie.
You obviously do not recognise irony. Perhaps you have some disability.

Pfr,
and whines like a little child when you are challenged

No-one has challenged the case I have been making.
You all just resort to personal attack because there is no challenge.
I have just stated facts.

I'm not going to put up with your destructive grudge against the labour party

I have no grudge.
I merely raised for discussion what was briefly a major news item.
It should and would have ended weeks ago but for you people denying demonstrable facts.
I merely responded by demonstrating those facts.

As for me being a bully, it is me who has had to stand up to abuse from all of you people.
There has been none from me in return.
That must make me the meekest of all bullies!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 09:34 AM

Keith - against the better judgement of other people, I am still a fan of boxing...

I respect the gentlemanly ideal of being deadly enemies inside the ring, but outside of a fight can shake hands, have a manly hug,
and be respectful adversaries, or even real friends and brothers.

I have no time for negative folks who hold petty spiteful bitter grudges.

You may notice that I am only engaging in this thread on the topic you set.
I have always tried my best to avoid even looking in the numerous current & previous threads on Ireland and Israel.
I don't care for your perpetual idiotic grudge fights and insults.
Which have inevitably spilled over into this thread.

Keith - all I know about you is the estimation I have arrived at on your character, based on how you act in the threads I meet you in.

Sadly, I think you are a devious shit stirring bully, who tries to play the blameless innocent, and whines like a little child when you are challenged...
Every class had one at primary school...

you make yourself look like a dick acting like a spoilt 7 year old.... 😣

I actually know nothing about you, your age, or your profession..
You say you are ill, and I sympathise with you on that score.
We all have our trials and problems to contend with outside in real life.

I honestly can't say how much we could like or tolerate each other in a civil social situation, for example a folk club...???

But whatever, I'm not going to put up with your destructive grudge against the labour party
or supercilious attitude towards me....

Not in this thread....

It seems to me you easily make enemies then complain when they bite back.....?????

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 09:33 AM

Anybody reading Jim Carroll's last two posts must like me be in total amazement at how a person use so many words to say absolutely S.F.A.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 09:06 AM

Just dug that last bit up - thought I'd posted it before.
I might have added that your racist contempt for the Irish people in describing them as "brainwashd", "gullible", ignorant of their own history, glorifying murder and conned into demanding independence by foreigners, is insulting on in international grand scale - and that continues to be the case on a thread I have no intention in being part of.
Nor do I intend to allow it to happen on this thread by being a part of it here - far too easy to let Keith off the hook for his dishonesty here.
Go and talk to each other on the other thread - it has no place her.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 08:58 AM

"Jim, you withdrew from the Rising thread after providing a link that demolished your own case."
I withdrew from that thread because you have twisted distorted denigrated and dismissed and ignored every piece of information that has ever been put up as you did with the book I put up - though I have to admit that you have managed to gain masses of support for your arguments for your arguments - in your ****** dreams!!!
More winners and losers Keith - grow up - this is not a competition
"I do not think that either Keith A or I have launched any such personal attack"
No enquiry has been held yet, but this hasn't stopped Keith and his friend from making up their own minds without the cases even being discussed, let alone examined.
Perhaps it they are found not guilty Keith will issue an apology - there's always a first in this life!!
As for my "made up shit" - still hovering above extinction before it sinks into the slime-pit you and Keith reduced it to.
Your own "personal attacks" are built into every response you make to anyone who disagrees with you - "Jim Carroll made-up-shit" being a typical example (the "Jim" having been insisted on, being a reluctant addition).
You and Keith persistently insult people - muppets, no-nothings, ignoramuses - the very nature of your postings exudes contempt.
Your greatest insults are directed to our intelligence by expecting your pronouncements, often on complicated and unknowable 'facts', to be accepted without proof or qualification.
Your very presence exudes arrogant superiority - totally unmerited.
Bobad's hate-spitting invective is beyond belief.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 07:59 AM

"I've just withdrawn from a thread in which you and your mate have launched personal attacks on my friends, family my neighbours and in fact the vast majority of the occupants of this island by representing them as "brainwashed" ignorant, gullible, and misled by propaganda."

More Jim Carroll "Made-Up-Shit". I do not think that either Keith A or I have launched any such personal attack and besides I think it was the five historians quoted, the former Leader of Fine Gael and the Coroner who held the inquest into the death of Lord Louis Mountbatten who all linked the political meddling and interference into educational matters and the faux-history that was taught in schools in the Republic of Ireland for purely political purposes to the violence that has blighted the island since independence.

There again Jim you could always provide examples of such personal attacks - but track record would tend towards the probability that you won't.

But as far as this thread goes, perhaps somebody could tell me if all 50 of those Labour Party members who were suspended have now been given a clean bill of health by the investigation by the compliance unit?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 06:40 AM

Jim, you withdrew from the Rising thread after providing a link that demolished your own case.
You lost.
Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 06:38 AM

Debates can be won and lost Jim.
Your case did not stand up, so you lose.
Sorry.

Steve, it is morning in UK, and there is no Gracie.
You must have a "mental aberration."

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 06:32 AM

"So you lose.
So you lose."
Back to !winning" and "losing"! again.
Jay-sus
And you are surprised when people attack your behavior!!!!
This is a debate, not a competition
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 06:29 AM

"Nothing but personal attack from you people now."
Hardly nothing - but have you ever considered that you might actually deserve the personal attacks
I've just withdrawn from a thread in which you and your mate hqave launcced personal attacks on my friends, family my neighbours and in fact the vast majority of the occupants of this island by representing them as "brainwashed" ignorant, gullible, and misled by propaganda.
I've just been describes as an apologist for Islamist terrorism and an anti-Semite (again) by the feller you are defending - you have made similar accusations in the past.
Have you ever considered that you might actually deserve the personal attacks.
I will attempt to have Bobad's vitriolic and sladerous posting removed and will arasei the question of his membership of this forum.
If you ever do the same again, I will respond in exactly the same way.
You are a pair of extremists who have no place in decent company.
People here are responding to what you say and how you behave not who you are.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 05:31 AM

Say goodnight to the folks, Gracie...

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 04:18 AM

Nothing but personal attack from you people now.
I have dementia, I am an Islamophobe, I have a " mental aberration" that prevents me being truthful, though no untruth has been or can be produced.

Of course you only resort to such abuse because you have no case.

You claim that it is not a serious issue for the party, but "the entire NEC" of the party say it is.
So you lose.

You attack me for saying that Labour people accuse other Labour people of it, but it is shown to be a fact.
So you lose.

All you can do is make up shit about me.

And Pfr tries to make the case that political parties should never be criticised because it might offend their supporters!
You lose that one straight away, silly.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 06:49 PM

Really? As with whites in apartheid South Africa, and whites in segregationalist America, learning that negro company is best avoided? Jim says you're antisemitic. You're now calling Jews racist. You're antisemitic, bobad!

Actually, it's far more probable that you're just a crazy, mixed-up bloke. Who also happens to be a cheat, lest I forget.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 06:34 PM

Hey, where's BeardedBS when ya need him?

Jews have learned from history that some company is best avoided.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 06:02 PM

Hey, where's BeardedBS when ya need him? Lets get all the clowns together - unfair to expect PooBah to carry the load all by himself!

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 05:14 PM

You have nothing to say, forum cheater, so why not put a sock in it.

I've never made an antisemitic remark in my life. For thirteen years of my teaching career I worked in rough schools in east London. Not once did I ever allow a racist remark in my classroom to pass. I'm quite proud of that, actually. I have a really simple definition of antisemitism that I stick to. You're an antisemite if you attack Jews BECAUSE THEY ARE JEWS. A remark that does not match that simple criterion cannot be antisemitic. I'm perfectly aware that remarks that don't directly attack Jews, but which are intended to disadvantage them in more subtle ways, can also be antisemitic. My antennae are tuned. I don't give a stuff what Israeli politicians say or whst pro-Israel lobbyists say. I don't give a stuff what discredited criteria, never adopted by the EU, say. I've fought racism all my life and I know what antisemitism is. I don't need some snivelling little forum-cheating gobshite and his Hertford henchman to tell me, thank you very much. Too many bloody miles on the clock.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 03:59 PM

Jim Carroll you are an apologist for Islamist terrorism, that explains your anti-semitism.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 03:03 PM

Didn't finish
Bobad
You are an Islamophobe too - you once put up one of the largest attacks on the Muslim religion I have ever come across - hundreds of claimed examples of Islamic terrorism dating back to Biblical Times as proof that Islam was a terrorist religion - you lifted them all from the extremist site 'Muslim Watch.
Keith supported your selections unquestioningly, demanding that we disprove them, even though most of them were untraceable.
Paint that whatever colour you like, that's Islamophobia - and both of you were guilty of it.
If you can describe us as Antisemitic so we can describe you as Islamophobic
The only difference is that we have the proof, you do not.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 02:28 PM

""A black rights activist linked to the left-wing group Momentum has been suspended from the Labour Party over remarks drawing parallels between Zionism and the Nazis."
Well done him/her it's about time someone stood up to be counted..
Will all those Jews who have said and are still saying exactly the same thing be expelled from Israel, d'you think?
Thanks to Israeli propaganda manipulation there no longer exists a clear definition of Antisemitism so comparing Israeli behaviour to the Nazis is now acceptable, especially as that is exactly how they are behaving - that part of the definion no longer applies – if the Israelis decide without consultation, that any critisicm of Israeli policy is Antisemitic then the rest of us can just as arbitrarily decide that we will compare that polict to the Nazis, especially as exactly the same thing has been said by Holocaust survivors, Israeli Generals and former heads of Mossad – and was being suggested as far back as the 1940s by Einstein and his fellow intellectuals.
You can't pick the bits of a definition that just suit you and ignore the ones that don't.
I believe you have described critics of Israel "Antisemitic" - Bobad certainly has.
That makes you by definition Anti-Semitic.
"Those who complain the most of being judged tend to be the most judgemental of others."
Don't you just?
Keith is a fully exposed (though not admitted) Islamophobe - I'm sure nobody needs the quote any more!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 02:25 PM

Somebody call a cab.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 02:19 PM

I cab be awfully judgemental of forum cheats, especially when I'm always unfailing open about who I am. I feel sorry for Keith, bobad, because he has some kind of mental aberration that prevents him from being truthful and objective. But you're not the same. You're just a cheat.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 01:53 PM

Keith - Sun's out, oven fish 'n' chips are cookin'... life's too short for petty squabbles with indefatigable blinkered pedants...

"I have not done that, and if I had criticised a political party, that would not be a personal attack on anyone."

..that really show's how limited your understanding is of the reality of labour party politics..

The party is it's people...!!!

It's not just an abstract academic conceptual construct to be debated and demolished in isolation;
in a sterile vacuum, inhabited by highfaluting geriatric armchair keyboard warriors...

'You' attack without good justification, ordinary decent people will defend and if necessary, counter attack...

Bullies should not ne so surprised or feign outrage when that happens... 😣


Btw.. I don't actually know your age, but intelligent politically aware people of my generation grew up
with the concepts loosely gathered under the 'slogan'

"The personal is political".....

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 01:43 PM

Those who complain the most of being judged tend to be the most judgemental of others.

As you should know, PeepBo, since you & your proxy identity are one of those greatest complainers of all time. Jerk.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 01:20 PM

Well looky here, he who calls others Islamophobes and denigrates the religious beliefs of others is whining about being called out as a Jew hater. Can't you just smell the hypocrisy?

Those who complain the most of being judged tend to be the most judgemental of others.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 01:14 PM

Pfr,
Keith - what's more personal than you constantly attacking and maliciously maligning the one political party
that genuinely defends the well being of my old mum, my wife, and myself...!!!???

I have not done that, and if I had criticised a political party, that would not be a personal attack on anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 11:30 AM

And what's more personal, Keith, than the friend you defend calling me a Jew hater?