BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Aug 16 - 12:29 PM

Read the article to the bottom, Teribus, instead of snatching the first few lines. The evidence is simply not good enough, is it?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Aug 16 - 11:46 AM

Arab/Israeli casualty figures since 1967

Source?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Aug 16 - 11:35 AM

"you have no proof that Hamas used human shields"

I don't need any when Hamas spokesmen themselves go on Television and admit that they do.

From Channel 4 Fact Check:

"Hamas has made no secret of advocating the use of civilians as human shields to try to face down Israeli aggression.

A senior spokesman for the group, Sami Abu Zuhri, gave an interview on Palestinian station al-Aqsa TV earlier this month."

The date was July 8, 2014 and the television channel was owned by Hamas so hardly any bias eh Shaw?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Aug 16 - 10:19 AM

Well you know me. I just LURVE to cherrypick. So how's about starting in 2000... By the way, you have no proof that Hamas used human shields, except for "they're Islamists and what more do you need..." 😂

You hope that repeating the same nonsense will make it true, Keith. Well life's not like that. A definition that was never official, never advocated, never EU policy, ditched in 2013, drawn up by an unofficial committee that was "advised" by bodies that almost entirely comprised pro-Israel lobbyists. I do know how dearly you want to cling on to it like a teddy or a comfort blanket. But it ain't real, Keith, and never was. Nurse will explain it to you later...

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Aug 16 - 10:16 AM

Arab/Israeli casualty figures since 1967

Source?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Aug 16 - 09:54 AM

Rag,
I don't show myself as anything professor because I haven't commented on it. Contrary to your belief you are not entitled to anything.

Huh?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Aug 16 - 09:51 AM

But as Shaw did ask

Arab/Israeli casualty figures since 1967 (For some reason Shaw has cherry-picked this start point):

Israeli Deaths - 7,661
Israeli Wounded - 19,334

Arab Deaths - 74,840
Arab Wounded - 59,011

Do you want to move the goal posts Shaw?

Since 1920 the figures are as follows:

Jewish/Israeli Deaths - 24,969
Jewish/Israeli Wounded - 36,260

Arab Deaths - 91,105
Arab Wounded - 78,038

Considering the number of occasions where having been offered peace the Arabs of the region have chosen war then those figures are not disproportionate at all.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Aug 16 - 09:29 AM

" let's have your comparative Israeli/"Arab" casualty figures" - Steve Shaw

In 1947 as the Great Britain's League of Nations Mandate was coming to an end, the UN offered the Jews of Palestine and the Arabs of Palestine a Two-State solution, the former were prepared to accept it, the latter refused and opted to go to war. Chose violence and you must accept the consequences - their aim at the time, clearly stated was that they were going to drive the Jews of Palestine into the sea - in short Shaw they were promising annihilation.

Chose violence as the Leaders of the Palestinian Arabs have done and attack a sovereign state then accept that they will retaliate and they may well be far better at retaliating than you are at attacking and that is what has proved to be the case over the past 68 years.

Second World War:

British Civilian Casualty figures - 67,200
German Civilian Casualty figures - 1,550,000 to 2,950,000

They seem a bit disproportionate to you Shaw? War is not a game, it is not subject to equivalence.

The Israeli's unilaterally withdrew from Gaza in 2005, since then {Having been given everything they said they wanted} over 15,000 missiles of some sort or another have been launched from Gaza and fired into Israel, indiscriminately targeting Israeli civilians. If you are fussed about civilians being killed in Gaza Shaw get Corbyn to have a word with his Hamas mates and tell them to stop all attacks on Israel and just in case they for some reason or another cannot do that then tell them that if they want to fight then have them stop hiding behind civilians when they do it.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Aug 16 - 09:17 AM

Show me where Corbyn has said "Naz Shah is antisemitic."

He said her comments were antisemitic, and she was suspended for them.

She's apologised for her stupidity and ignorance

She apologised specifically for making antisemitic statements.

Not an official EU organisation.

The EUMC definitions are adopted by the "European Parliament Working Group On Antisemitism," are published on their website today and have been for years, and have been adopted even beyond EU.
http://www.antisem.eu/projects/eumc-working-definition-of-antisemitism/

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Aug 16 - 05:38 AM

Not an official EU organisation. The advisory board consists of pro-Israel lobby groups. It is not the EUMC as you keep implying. You cling to this like a dried turd pellet to an arse hair. Turn the record over. Anyone can say they've adopted anything they like, but the TRUTH is that the EU NEVER adopted the definition and NEVER advocated that ANYONE ELSE took it up.

And I don't give a shit what the ex-prime minister thinks, the man who lets dead pigs fellate him. Show me where Corbyn has said "Naz Shah is antisemitic." You really can't wring any more out of this one, Keith. She's apologised for her stupidity and ignorance. If she thinks what she said was antisemitic I think she is wrong. I've been over her relevant remarks and shown that she said nothing that attacked Jews BECAUSE THEY ARE JEWS. It's over, Keith. Only desperadoes like you and bobad and the Daily Mail keep burbling on about it.

The thread is about what people post in it, Teribus. Only people like Keith whose arguments are going belly-up moan about thread drift below the line. And let's have your comparative Israeli/"Arab" casualty figures for, say, the period since the '67 war. Don't forget to include the Gazan women and children and the massacred refugees in Lebanon, old chap.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Aug 16 - 05:36 AM

I don't show myself as anything professor because I haven't commented on it. Contrary to your belief you are not entitled to anything.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Aug 16 - 04:16 AM

Keith will tell you that the discarded (in 2013) and discredited "working definition" of antisemitism, never advocated by the EU for adoption BY ANYONE, drawn up by an EUMC that has now been defunct for NINE YEARS

Keith will tell you that those definitions are adopted by the "European Parliament Working Group On Antisemitism," are published on their website today, and have been adopted even beyond EU.
http://www.antisem.eu/projects/eumc-working-definition-of-antisemitism/

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Aug 16 - 04:09 AM

Steve,
Naz says, under considerable pressure, that she's said something antisemitic (I heartily disagree with her, but hey ho), so she's spot on

She said it under no pressure, after she had been reinstated.
You disagree not only with her, but also the Prime Minister and Corbyn himself that IT WAS ANTISEMITIC.

You show yourself as unable to recognise antisemitism.

Rag, you stated the view that being unable to recognise racism is racist.
Do you regard antisemitism as racism, or do you still have a double standard on that?
"A different argument" you said.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Aug 16 - 02:14 AM

Greg F. - 21 Aug 16 - 01:55 PM

Good heavens Greg F. must have read the Balen Report - Lucky boy!!! Nobody else got to.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Aug 16 - 02:02 AM

"people who feel sorry for ordinary Israelis whose leaders and allies are imposing insecurity on them." - Steve Shaw

Would dearly love an explanation of that claptrap.

Would those be the same "leaders" who saw to the organisation of the defence, security, well-being and prosperity of their people in:

1920 - when they were attacked by the Arabs
1921 - when they were attacked by the Arabs
1929 - when they were attacked by the Arabs
1936 - when they were attacked by the Arabs
1948 - when they were attacked by the Arabs
1950s - when they were attacked by the Arabs
1967 - when they were attacked by the Arabs
1973 - when they were attacked by the Arabs
1980s - when they were attacked by the Arabs
1990s - when they were attacked by the Arabs
2000s - when they were attacked by the Arabs
2010s - when they were attacked by the Arabs

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Teribus
Date: 23 Aug 16 - 01:49 AM

Steve Shaw - 19 Aug 16 - 11:29 AM

"If you deplore bullying and intimidation in the Tory party, then let's see you expend as many words on it now as you have on Labour's"

What is the subject of this thread again? And here we have somebody seemingly complaining about the amount of attention being focused on Labour. Why don't you open a similar thread on the Tory Party Shaw?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Aug 16 - 07:12 PM

To be clear, thank God for the Jews of this world that people like Keith and bobad have no power is what I meant.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Aug 16 - 07:04 PM

Greg, they also adopt definitions that fit their political agenda. Keith will tell you that the discarded (in 2013) and discredited "working definition" of antisemitism, never advocated by the EU for adoption BY ANYONE, drawn up by an EUMC that has now been defunct for NINE YEARS, pushed for fervently by an advisory board that represented almost exclusively Jewish/Israeli interests, is the one to go for. Not because he thinks it's a fair definition, but because its a definition that proscribes all criticism of the actions of the state of Israel, poor old Israel that needs Keith "to put their side of the story" contrary to all the facts at our disposal. Stuff that criticises the excesses of a state that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HATING JEWS BECAUSE THEY ARE JEWS. Keith and booboo haven't a clue what real, vicious antisemitism is, the kind that put six million innocent people in lethal jeopardy and which those two still employ in order to continue to put ordinary Jewish people in harm's way. Thank God for the Jews of this world that they have no power or influence is all I can say. If only they knew what they are doing. Keith and bobad and their ilk are the mortal enemies of Jewish people the world over. It's bloody shocking the way they behave here, it is.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Aug 16 - 06:25 PM

Of course, when you and your pals make up your own definitions.............

Unlike you, Bubo, who make up your own "facts".

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Aug 16 - 05:28 PM

It's interesting, isn't it. If I told Keith that Naz Shah was an avid supporter of Jeremy, was an avid supporter of Hamas, was an avid supporter of Remain, was an avid supporter of boycotting Israeli goods, was an avid supporter of reinstating the rights of disabled people that the Tories have removed, was an avid supporter of ending austerity, etc. etc. (all true), he'd be calling her, variously, a liar, deluded, bigoted, antisemitic, a terrorist apologist, far left, etc. etc. Yet when she says something a little contritional, she is oh so truthful that we have to hang on her every word as gospel. Naz says, under considerable pressure, that she's said something antisemitic (I heartily disagree with her, but hey ho), so she's spot on. Dead right. Not to be argued with. But on everything else she says she's a scurrilous lying little leftie bastard. Typical of the Murdoch-driven extreme right represented by Keith and his sorry ilk that they try to have their cake, full of picked cherries, and eat it. Well you're really easy to see through, Keith. And you lied about her and you're still lying about her. Her suspension was mutually agreed pending investigation. Not for any other reason. Then she was rapidly reinstated. I know you don't like it. I know it doesn't suit your weak and flaccid case. But that's the truth. And I'll tell you another thing. I'm a member of a party that is replete with supporters of Israel. The are dozens of times more of them than there are alleged antisemites. They even have their own official lobby group within the party (nowhere near as nasty as the one in the Tory party, but I still don't much care for it). It doesn't matter to me. I understand arguments that sympathise with all the people of Israel. I'm not affiliating myself to any setup or any individual who wants Israel wiped off the map. I actually want far more for Israeli people than you do. I do not want Israeli people put in harm's way, unlike you, bobad and Bibi.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 22 Aug 16 - 04:40 PM

.....if you can find just one one post of mine that is racist or anti-Semitic

Of course, when you and your pals make up your own definitions.............

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Aug 16 - 02:25 PM

Bobad, As I've already said to the professor if you can find just one one post of mine that is racist or anti-Semitic I will not only apologise profusely but I will withdraw from any further comment on this thread.



I wish the same could be said of other contributors.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 22 Aug 16 - 01:40 PM

What about the anti-Semites, Raggy?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Aug 16 - 01:22 PM

Professor, I think you should be suspended from this forum for your abject racism, your bigotry and basically for being a very unpleasant person.

"Christian" I don't think so.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Aug 16 - 12:29 PM

You really haven't got a clue, have you? 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Aug 16 - 12:16 PM

Sorry Keith, but your link clearly shows that she was not suspended for antisemitism.

It clearly shows that she was!
Corbyn and his aides accepted that her comments were antisemitic and she herself admitted it, so of course she had to be suspended for it.

The "investigation" was not into whether she had made antisemitic comments.
That was already established.
They just had to decide what to do with her.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Aug 16 - 09:06 AM

Sorry Keith, but your link clearly shows that she was not suspended for antisemitism. She was suspended PENDING INVESTIGATION. More later.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Aug 16 - 08:52 AM

That's OK Professor - you cannot recognise fact when it is put in front of you. So I guess you're even.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Aug 16 - 08:41 AM

Yes Rag, but Steve has shown again that he cannot recognise antisemitism when it is put in front of him.

It is his judgement on it that can be dismissed, and not those of Jews and non-Jews who have worked for the Party for most or all of their adult lives and who speak from actual experience and knowledge, unlike him.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Aug 16 - 06:28 AM

Old news that was dealt with promptly by the Labour Party, not brushed under the carpet as other party's are wont to do.

It has also been covered here .............. ad nauseam.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Aug 16 - 04:36 AM

Steve,

Give me any quote from any LABOUR OFFICIAL that she was suspended FOR ANTISEMITIC STATEMENTS.

Certainly Steve,
Guardian 27th April,
"Even after the prime minister said it was "extraordinary," that she continued to hold the Labour whip, and accused the Labour leader of failing to get to grips with antisemitisim in his party, Corbyn's aides defended Shah, saying the comments were antisemitic but the MP had "shocked herself," and did not mean what she said."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/27/naz-shah-suspended-labour-party-antisemitism-row

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 21 Aug 16 - 05:52 PM

😂 😂 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Aug 16 - 02:21 PM

Your last two posts are unconnected in the rational mind, bobad the double agent. 😂

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 21 Aug 16 - 02:16 PM

Text of Law drafted by Political Committee of Arab League

    Beginning with November 28, 1947, all Jewish citizens of (Name of Arab Country) will be considered as members of the Jewish minority State of Palestine and will have to register with the authorities of the region wherein they reside, giving their names, the exact number of members in their families, their addresses, the names of their banks and the amounts of their deposits in these banks. This formality is to be accomplished within seven days.

    Beginning with (November 28, 1947), bank accounts of Jews will be frozen. These funds will be utilized in part or in full to finance the movement of resistance to Zionist ambitions in Palestine.

    Beginning with (November 28, 1947), only Jews who are subjects of foreign countries will be considered as "neutrals". These will be compelled either to return to their countries, with a minimum of delay, or be considered as Arabs and obliged to accept active service with the Arab army.

    Jews who accept active service in Arab armies or place themselves at the disposal of those armies, will be considered as "Arabs".

    Every Jew whose activities reveal that he is an active Zionist will be considered as a political prisoner and will be interned in places specifically designated for that purpose by police authorities or by the Government. His financial resources, instead of being frozen, will be confiscated.

    Any Jew who will be able to prove that his activities are anti-Zionist will be free to act as he likes, provided that he declares his readiness to join the Arab armies.

    The foregoing (para.6) does not mean that those Jews will not be submitted to paragraphs 1 and 2 of this law.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Aug 16 - 02:08 PM

The only US president who didn't think the settlements are illegal was the twat Raygun, and even he told Israel to knock it off. Of course, Israel's massive Yankee puppet won't actually do anything about it, but at least it knows, like everyone else on the planet except for Keith, bobad and the Bibi brigade, that the settlements are unjust, illegal and a major obstacle to peace.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Aug 16 - 02:06 PM

official Arab statistics

Source, Bubo?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 21 Aug 16 - 02:03 PM

According to official Arab statistics, over 989,000 Jews were forced out of their homes in Arab countries from 1948 until the early 1970's. Some 650,000 resettled in Israel, leaving behind personal property valued today at more than $990 billion. Jewish-owned real-estate left behind in Arab lands has been estimated at 120,000 square kilometers (four times the size of the State of Israel). Valued today at about 15 trillion dollars.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Aug 16 - 01:55 PM

Well, waddaya expect from those rabid antisemites at the BBC, Steve?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Aug 16 - 01:09 PM

Wiki, on the legality of Israeli settlements:

...the consensus view of the international community is that Israeli settlements are illegal and constitute a violation of international law. According to the BBC, every government in the world, except Israel, considers the settlements to be illegal.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Aug 16 - 12:54 PM

There are no illegal settlements

Yeah, right. You taking over as a speech writer for Trump, Bubo? He needs someone who can write better fiction.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Aug 16 - 12:31 PM

And try not to be stupid for a minute or two, bobad. It'll be an uphill struggle for sure, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Aug 16 - 12:29 PM

Give me any quote from any LABOUR OFFICIAL that she was suspended FOR ANTISEMITIC STATEMENTS. That's what you've just said. Not suspected antisemitic statements and not alleged antisemitic statements. So let's be having it. Not the first time you've been asked, either.

Like Ken Livingstone, I found none of her comments to be antisemitic, not even the one about "the Jews are rallying." Her own remarks in the BBC interview were:

"One of the tough conversations I had to have with myself was about, God, am I anti-Semitic?

"And I had to really question my heart of hearts. Yes, I have ignorance, yes everybody has prejudice, sub conscious biases, but does that make me anti-Semitic? And the answer was no, I do not have a hatred of Jewish people."

Her remarks were inflammatory, inexcusable, immature, stupid, mistimed and ignorant. But antisemitism means hating Jews BECAUSE THEY ARE JEWS. That does not include stating what Jews are actually doing, as long as what is being said is true, though she didn't half choose her moment badly. If I say that most Israeli Jews rally round their leaders, that is true but I can think of a million better ways of saying it. But she was speaking as a Muslim at a time when the Israeli regime were perpetrating outrages in Gaza (which you and the rest of your Islamophobic cohort don't accept, of course) against her fellow Muslims. She has backed down, apologised, grown up a bit and she has been reinstated. That is how it is. If you think it's wrong, tough. It's not your party. Take out a civil summons against her for hate speech, which is what real antisemitism is. Go on, piss or get off the pot. You want to big up a flash-in-the-pan incident whilst ignoring the far worse racism and probable criminality on your own side just because you don't like Muslims and will never hear a single word of criticism about the Israeli regime. Now just get over yourself. And the reason we are including Israel is because you and you extremist friends here WANT TO INCLUDE ANY CRITICISM AT ALL OF THE ACTIONS OF THE ISRAELI STATE AS ANTISEMITISM. That's the way the various pro-Israeli factions in the Labour Party and elsewhere want it, and your cheerleaders are the Israeli regime. So you can just drop that particular bit of dishonest bleating as well.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 21 Aug 16 - 12:12 PM

Ask the non-Jews who were kicked off good land in order to create exclusively Jewish settlements

There are no illegal settlements - unless of course one assumes that Jews should not own property or build in those areas because they are Jews. Every current Jewish "settlement" is on land owned by Jews before 1948 or purchased after 1967. Settlements that tried to set up on land that was not Jewish owned have been dismantled. We continue to hear the term "illegal", but "legal and illegal" has to be more that political desires and interests. It has to refer to law. And, frankly, law established during the illegal Jordanian occupation of the area in which jewish property was confiscated and retitied, and current PA regulations that ban sales or ownership of property by Jews is not valid.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Aug 16 - 11:27 AM

Why are you still trying to discuss Israel in a thread about Labour?
You are obsessed!

Her remark was stupid, immature and very unwise. It was not antisemitic.

That is your assertion.
Against that we have the fact that she was suspended from the Party because of her antisemitic statements until she withdrew them and apologised for them.
Also the fact that having been reinstated she acknowledged in a BBC interview that it had been antisemitic, which she said was down to her ignorance of Jewish history.

So Steve, your assertion is contradicted by the action of the Party Exec., and by Shah's own assessment of what she said.

You have failed to make your case.
There is more reason to dismiss your views on Labour antisemitism than Jews and non-Jews who have worked for the Party for most or all of their adult lives and who speak from actual experience and knowledge, unlike you.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Aug 16 - 01:29 PM

Naz Shah made a very stupid comment about ISRAEL (not about JEWS) that was based on the perceived bad behaviour of the ISRAELI REGIME. She did not make a comment about the bad behaviour of the members of the regime ARISING FROM THE FACT THAT THEY ARE JEWS. Her remark was stupid, immature and very unwise. It was not antisemitic. You clearly haven't a clue what antisemitism is. You clearly want to defend the record of successive Israeli regimes no matter how lousy that record has been. That is dishonest and it reveals that you want Israel to be treated far more favourably than anyone else. In fact, you reject all criticism. I have yet to see you accept any criticism of anything perpetrated by the state of Israel. As for democracy in Israel, you've been told before about how Palestinians in Israel are routinely discriminated against: how they are held up without reason for days at road blocks, how school buses won't go through Arab areas forcing children to walk for miles, how unemployment among non-Jews is far higher than among Jews and about how how pay levels among non-Jews are far lower. Ask the non-Jews who were kicked off good land in order to create exclusively Jewish settlements, or the hundreds of non-Jews who have been held in jail for months or years not only without charge but also without even being told why they are being held about your precious democracy. In Israel, democracy stops as soon as you leave the polling station for approximately a quarter of the population. Your deliberate blindness to all this is is a prime example of appalling bigotry.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Aug 16 - 12:32 PM

The terminology I use is "apologists for the Israeli regime."

OK, apologists for the democratically elected government of Israel.

You still have not given any reason to call them that, as opposed to being apologists for any other country, and you still have not explained why their views on antisemitism within Labour should be dismissed because of it.

You have failed to make your case.
There is more reason to dismiss your views on Labour antisemitism than Jews and non-Jews who have worked for the Party for most or all of their adult lives and who speak from actual experience and knowledge, unlike you.
I remind you that you failed to recognise the anisemitism expressed by Naz Shah

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Aug 16 - 11:24 AM

Ah, but Bubu- what about the Jews in Israel and worldwide that oppose the Israeli Government policies in Gaza, the occupied territories, in building settlements and the wall & etc -

Are these Jews therefore "anti-semites"?

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: bobad
Date: 20 Aug 16 - 10:54 AM

I should have specified "regressive leftist non-Jews" as the progressive left recognize who the bad actors in the Middle East are.

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Aug 16 - 10:38 AM

PS:Bubo, Jews are not a "race".

Subject: RE: BS: (UK) Whither the Labour Party
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Aug 16 - 10:37 AM

When Jews call out against the policies of the Israeli Government why then do certain folks feel curiously entitled call only non-Jews who
call out against the policies of the Israeli Government anti-semites???