BS: Home Education UK

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 10:41 PM

Like it or not the real issue right now is AIDS. To my knowledge oral or anal sex will not prevent it. I had this discussion with my son although his response was that he would never get involved with someone who might have AIDS. A difficult subject. Even marriage doesn't guarantee protection if your mate strays,

So is sex education included in home schooling?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 10:36 PM

I hope a certain Mudcat member chooses to post here. A daughter, aged about 9, asked "What is a blow job?" Mudcat member had sworn to the children that they could ask anything and never be told a lie. A carefully and accurately worded explanation was given. Child was satisfied and somewhat horrified. "Gross" if I remember correctly. Children only ask what they are ready to hear or what they have heard at school. Open, honest discussion is only fair.

I had similar talks with my son. Sometimes a little awkward for both of us but he asked what he needed to know and I gave him the information I thought was appropriate. I kept in mind that my first introduction to sex was a friend's explanation, straight from her mother, that when a woman wants a baby, she and her husband go to the hospital. He pees in her and that makes a baby. End of story.
Gross!

That girl had two illegitimate pregnancies. Too much information or misleading information? Go figure.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 10:24 PM

I do not understand how Lizzie taught her children to be caring and respectful when she can not find it in her heart to be either to a child/young adult who come on Mudcat to join this discussion.

Read your attacks on a fellow Mudcatter's daughter and then tell me you don't understand why you have been hounded in what you call a witch hunt. You misspelled it, Ms Cornish or Route or whatever. Or should I say "Cornish" or "Route". You really should be ashamed of yourself.


This certainly confuses me:
"The thing is, Emma...we were only taught about love....sex was part of love..the two went together."
I thought you were taught nothing of use in school? Or did someone see to it that you had Sex Ed in fear that might decide to reproduce?

Welcome Daisybell. I can see where you might expect your post to have some value - someone who is actually excelling in school. I suspect you and your friends are in the majority. Unfortunately, here on Mudcat, the ones who squeal the loudest and longest think they have proven their point when the rest of us walk away shaking our heads in disbelief and pity.

"See I'm right and you're wrong!
Auntie Em, Auntie Em! I'll give you Auntie Em...and your little dog too!"

DaisyBell - PM me if you would like to discuss school or anything else. Maeve is a voice of reason. Katlaughing, Jacqui, Janie, Dani (who has two college age daughters). All good people.Or continue the good fight here. Do what you need to.
Auntie SINS

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Smokey.
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 08:01 PM

Lizzie, protecting people from disease can never be a bad thing. Providing potentially life-saving information can never be a bad thing. There has always been teenage sexual activity and pregnancy, and I doubt if it's actually increasing. Instilling a sense of informed responsibility in young people is the best thing society can do, in my opinion, and that seems to be what they are trying to do with sex education.

Daisybell, thanks for the blast of reality.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 07:59 PM

Daisybell wrote:
I haven't ventured into other threads because this is the only one I'm really interested in.

If you do get interested in other threads, some of us would appreciate it. If you can put this much effort into helping shovel an immense steaming pile of dogshit, you've got a lot to contribute.

Welcome.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 07:25 PM

Dave, have you seriously sat yourself down and asked yourself why you're so obsessed with me?

Actually no Lizzie I haven't stopped and asked myself because I'm not.

I have interacted with others in this thread and a list of my what I have written shows I normally have a wide variety of postings.

I do get involved in threads with you because you do write unsubstantiated horlicks so often and like others on this thread when people write unsubstantiated horlicks I feel it needs to be challenged or substantiated.

As as example you wrote about the young people getting cervical cancer vaccines. I haven't made a full check - but as far as I can see no-one has agreed with you, including someone who is currently at school and discussing this with her parents and her peer group. What you wrote was complete and utter tosh,

You referred to a university and its think tank. What you said about it was palpable nonsense but since you have a cavalier regard for facts that is not unusual.

I happen to have respect for truth and facts. You can have as much disregard as you like for the truth, but while ever you post nonsense expect me to disagree with you.

And let me get this absolutely right, you rang someone who you thought was a pedophile but was in fact a pediatrician you knew wouldn't answer the phone to you?

Truly remarkable!!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 06:10 PM

Teachers, talking about teaching very young chldren about sex..


We had no sex education in primary school at all...

"All children are developing at a much faster rate...we are in a changing world.....our children are different"

I wonder why................


Once the adults protected the children, allowing them to have a childhood. Now, the New Way, is to put all the information on to the children, let them deal with it, and wash their hands of any further responsibility. IMO, that's crap.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:59 PM

"You telephoned a consultant paediatrician at his place of work to ask him if he was a paedophile, not expecting him to answer. So you asked one of his staff instead."

Er....I used to work for Consultants, for your information, (although I'm sure that's listed in your 'Things Lizzie's Said' Book, so I know they don't answer the phone...

Dave, have you seriously sat yourself down and asked yourself why you're so obsessed with me?   I mean there are loads of other people on this thread, but time and again..er.............

Tell you what, you go down to the park, and talk to 13/14 year olds about anal and oral sex, and when the nice policeman comes to take you away, you can just tell him that you were trying to get the kids to see 'there's another way of doing things' and see what happens...

Here you go.... Corporate Sex Education Industry kits...

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: GUEST,daisybell
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:59 PM

I answered because my mum is a mudcat member, which is why earlier I mentioned going to folk festivals, and she told me about this thread a couple of days ago. She showed me some of the things you'd written and the generalisations you were making about people my age and schools like mine (I'm not just talking about one school either, I've attended two primary schools and two secondary schools, all of which were state schools) made me angry and I wanted to respond. I haven't ventured into other threads because this is the only one I'm really interested in. Is that okay 'Lizzie'? I'm going to bed now anyway, have a lovely evening!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:48 PM

Minimal sex education?

Yeesh, 'daisybell', my daughter had tons of it, at both secondary schools she attended....primary too. Seems your school is maybe a little behind the times, but....minimal is good, and maybe that's the reason why your friends and peers are as they are.

It's very good to hear.

Daisy, I'm a little puzzled....what exactly brought you to Mudcat? You've not posted ever before, seem to have made your way down to the BS section immediately, when Mudcat's known for its music more than anything else...

Hey, don't get me wrong, I'm real pleased to see you here, but...I'm just kinda puzzled as to how you got to be here and why you've not ventured into other threads...

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: GUEST,daisybell
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:38 PM

None of my friends, or anyone I know of in my school, is pregnant, despite having minimal sex education. Plus it's mainly the media that can encourage people my age to have sex, not sex education. Why would what's practically a biology lesson make people feel like it was okay to have sex?
I'd really appreciate it if you stopped putting my name in quotation marks, I've asked you several times and it's rude.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:36 PM

Yeah, well I wasn't truly expecting him to be...although I did ask for him by name first, actually, smart arse, but I did get to speak to one of the ladies in his department..

This gets funnier and funnier. Keep going Lizzie - I am thinking of publishing it somewhere.

You telephoned a consultant paediatrician at his place of work to ask him if he was a paedophile, not expecting him to answer. So you asked one of his staff instead.

Well at least they didn't patronise you.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:32 PM

I should point out that one of the reasons it is set up that way is because giftedness often masks the learning disabilities and makes them harder to detect in people who are gifted. But having such a large discrepancy is considered a telltale sign. And also, if someone is gifted, with no learning disabilities, there would not be such a discrepancy.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:28 PM

"I think it's ridiculous to suggest that before sex education, there was no underage sex or pregnancy."

I didn't say that 'Daisybell'.....what I said was that in my day, with barely any sex education, pregnancy amongst my friends and peers was extremely rare.

There have always been youngsters who've had sex earlier than others, there always will be. You can't stop nature, but.....to saturate children and young people in sex, bodily functions, body parts..etc.etc..from primary school upwards is kinda wobbly weird, in my book....

But then, I read a different book to the many here...

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:27 PM

I never said he failed mathematics. However, his sister said that he wasn't good at the easy part of mathematics. For those who missed it the first time, here it is again...

"(Albert) never was much good at the 'easy' part of mathematics. To shine, he had to move on to the 'hard' part.' In adult life his mathematical intuition was recognised as extraordinary and he could handle deftly the most difficult of tensor calculus, but it appears that arithmetic calculation continued to be an area of comparative weakness." ~ Maja Einstein"


For those who apparently don't really know anything at all about people who are gifted/LD, or how such people are classified by and handle by the schools, and who have also apparently not bothered to read the links I provided on the subject, it is not necessary for a student to fail at a particular subject for them to be considered learning disabled if they are also gifted. All that is necessary is for there to be a marked discrepancy between their abilities in the area of their giftedness and any other area. For Einstein to have been as incredibly advanced as he was in certain aspects of mathematics, but to be considered "weak" in simple mathematics would qualify him as gifted/LD in the public schools today. That is how my son was assessed. Had he not been as advanced in some areas as he was, his deficiencies wouldn't have been considered great enough to qualify him for special education services. It was the discrepancy between his giftedness and other areas that qualified him for special education services.

That's just the way it works, folks. Too bad if some people don't like it.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:25 PM

"No wonder they told you he wasn't in!!!!! "

Sigh........

Yeah, well I wasn't truly expecting him to be...although I did ask for him by name first, actually, smart arse, but I did get to speak to one of the ladies in his department..

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:24 PM

'I asked because I'm really kinda weirdly worried about folks who want to talk to 13 year olds about oral and anal sex.....'

The programme was designed to REPLY to young peoples questions about such issues.
However much we may be concerned about and deplore the early sexualization of children through the media etc it is nevertheless a 'fact of modern life' and I believe honest informed disucussion of such things is better than playground sniggering and misinformation.


BTW a recent small rise in conceptions rates per 1,000 girls aged 12 to 15 7.8 in 2006 to 8.1 in 2007 followed a 5 year fall

Earlier this year A spokesperson for the YWCA said:
"There has been an increase in the number of teenage conceptions in the last year but we feel that this is just a blip in the overall downward trend. We don't feel that there should be any concern that teen pregnancies are on the increase again."

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: GUEST,daisybell
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:22 PM

At any of the schools I've been to, I've never experienced this extreme sex education; about five years ago when we had our first sex education lessons, they were really biological and didn't explain that much in detail. I think it's ridiculous to suggest that before sex education, there was no underage sex or pregnancy. Sex education isn't teaching people how to have sex, it's teaching them what sex is and how to be safe. If an individual decides to have sex underage, wouldn't you rather they were safe and knew the consequences rather than getting pregnant and not knowing anything about contraception?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:22 PM

Nah, Dave....I'm afraid I don't believe those figures about pregnancy.

Of course, the entire Benefits System is geared up to encourage early pregnancy anyway...

Of course you didn't Lizzie.

Of course it is Lizzie.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:22 PM

jade, young people have been having 'sex' education for yonks now...and it's not making any difference, well it is.....but it's not a good difference..

In fact, we've got a nation of kids (generalising 'Daisybell', generalising) who are driving other nations up the wall when they visit on holiday and 'the british' are found to be having sex up against their church walls...

I mean?????????

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:16 PM

Lizzie I take it from this:

Nope...I asked... [ a consultant paediatrician if he was a paedophile].... because I'm really kinda weirdly worried about folks who want to talk to 13 year olds about oral and anal sex.....

No wonder they told you he wasn't in!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:16 PM

Nah, Dave....I'm afraid I don't believe those figures about pregnancy.

Of course, the entire Benefits System is geared up to encourage early pregnancy anyway...

"WHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOSH!" is heard across the nation, as they all reach for Google to look up 'Benefits and Pregnancy' to prove the Witch wrong, yet again, and hang her out to dry...

You lot do make me laugh at times...

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: jeddy
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:14 PM

i know i spoke of emotions only for the last sentance, but i think love is still the most important thing for most people still.

quite a few years ago we were living in a hostel, one of the girls there had at least two abortions. this has nothing to do with the rights and wrongs of abortion, but it amazed me that after having one she wasn't more careful!

she was not the only one i have known to do that either.

so the question being which would you prefer, good sex education, or getting into a situation that could damage not only your mental health, but your body as well?

TCA
jade x x

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:12 PM

No, the more I think about it, the more we need to bring the Cami Knickers back...preferably Navy Blue ones...in that thick material..

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:11 PM

It's probably this one Lizzie is referring to.

It still doesn't say what you said it said.

But it is an interesting argument you pose Lizzie.

I refer you back to my earlier post where I pointed out the difficulties of persuading parents that some changes in education can be for the better.

Here we have a course of study that demonstrably reduces the amount of pregnancy in young girls. Now I would have thought (from what you have said earlier in this thread) you would be in favour of that.   

But apparently you are against it.

I did try and forewarn you not to believe everything you read in the papers. See what happens!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:11 PM

The thing is, Emma...we were only taught about love....sex was part of love..the two went together.

I dunno....it just seems to me that rampant sex hasn't brought a great deal of happiness (now, boys, calm down) ;0)

Schools have been obsessed with it, the whole medical profession has become obsessed by it!

WHAT do they think used to happen, in Days of Yore when people weren't told anything at all? Strangely, the human race still survived, got on with things, worked it all out...

Has Sex become the new Black?
Is Love now so old fashioned that no-one wants to wear it any longer?

Who knows, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:10 PM

That is not entirely accidental, nor a matter of regret to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:07 PM

Oh yes, Sweetums, I saw that post...I just meant "where have you been?" in general...not seen a lot of you for a while..that's all...

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:06 PM

"I wonder if that's why Lizzie asked if he was a paediophile!!"

Nope...I asked because I'm really kinda weirdly worried about folks who want to talk to 13 year olds about oral and anal sex.....

But again, what do I know, I'm just an old fashioned gal.....

By the way, do you think that paedeophiles aren't in the medical profession, Dave? They are *everywhere*, especially where the children are.

As I said before, the headmaster of a school in North Devon was sent to prison for that very thing. There is no National Curriculum for sex education, it is left to the individual head teachers...unless, of course, they've changed the goalposts..

Oh look, here we are.....Let's all head for Scotland!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:04 PM

"lizziecornish" asks where have I been, having failed to notice that I contributed to this thread two days ago. I repeat the post so that she might peruse, if not understand it, although the latter is doubtful:

From: The Borchester Echo - PM
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 11:26 AM

There are two musicians I know who are both Cambridge graduates and who were also diagnosed as dyslexic when small children. They considered this not a "gift" but a blasted nuisance. Each, however, received appropriate remedial tuition and are now where they are, playing in top bands.

I know another with Asberger's Syndrome who refuses all therapy or treatment. He's a total pain in the arse, as is anyone else with this condition, and is unable to play in bands with others.

None of which has anything whatsoever to do with "home education" (cranky or not) but it certainly exposes how preposterous it is to regard someone with a learning difficulty as somehow "special". Appropriate intervention by skilled experts can and does get round or overcome such problems and enables a more or less "normal" life (whatever that is).

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 04:59 PM

From my post....

'Based on extensive research at Exeter University's Department of Child Health, it doesn't just focus on the physical aspects of sex, but also addresses the emotional side.'

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 04:54 PM

Yeah, but.....what happened to LOVE, jade?

Sexsexsexsexsexsexsexsex......

It is nothing more, to many these days, than a biological function...

Once, it was so much more....

And another Ripple of Preciousness floats out 'lost' into the Pond of Life

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: jeddy
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 04:50 PM

well found emma!!!

in folkie terms sex is not such a big issue, most of the songs we like and sing involve sex or murder, both is better!!

having said that to some non folkie friends recently, they got rather embarrassed.

it is the same as discussing medical conditions, it is biology, pure and simple. emotions are much harder to disscuss, without making someone feel bad because they don't feel a certain way.

take care all

jade x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 04:47 PM

Has anyone noticed that the more 'sex education' the kids are given, the more teenage pregnancies we have?

Hmmmmmmmmm......


We had 30 minutes of Mrs. Smallworth squirming, as she sat on her desk, telling us The Facts of Life....whilst we looked at one another in disbelief....and afterwards we mumbled "Surely our parents don't do ***that***" :0)

Girls were told on their own, as were the boys, who had a male teacher tell them 'their side'.....

We didn't discuss our side with the lads, and they didn't discuss their side with us.

And in the worst school in the neighbourhood, which is where I went, not one of my friends, or any other classmates in the whole of my year became pregnant. It was very rare in those days...

Of course, I am going back to 1356, but........

So, the 'scientific' ones might assume that the less you tell children, the more they are able to live their lives as er...children...

But, what do I know?

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 04:46 PM

Thanks for that Emma. I can see that the man at the centre of this is a consultant paediatrician.

I wonder if that's why Lizzie asked if he was a paediophile!!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 04:42 PM

Nope, that wasn't the report, actually.

The report was in the Daily Mail...(Boomf Boomf Boomf, as they all tumble down like Matchstick Men in shocked, outraged horror at the very mention of that name!)

I was kinda stunned and thought..."Aha, here goes The Mail again!" as I've heard such bad things about it on Mudcat...so I thought I'd ring up Exeter Uni, as they'd put that in the report, to find out if it was true or not...it was.

Ring them up, Dave, if you don't believe I did it...ring them up. You have my full permission.

Then you can put it in your 'Things Lizzie Says' book where you can cross reference every word I've ever put down...



"Long may her G-strings prosper and her list of GCSEs lengthen."

If you get your G string caught in your GCSEs, could it be a problem, Sweetum? Where've you been? I haven't seen you for a while. I expect you've been yattering Above Stars, as opposed to Below...

Can G strings lengthen also?   (bemused smiley)

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Emma B
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 04:37 PM

The American website "The Public School Parent's Network " carried an article under the heading

"Sex education that delays sexual activity"

This was about
'A new and more effective sex education programme called A PAUSE (Added Power and Understanding in Sex Education) takes a different approach. Based on extensive research at Exeter University's Department of Child Health, it doesn't just focus on the physical aspects of sex, but also addresses the emotional side. So far, around 100 schools have enrolled in this ground-breaking programme.'

It was an idea for peer-led sex education that initially came from similar successful programmes in the USA, where escalating teenage pregnancy rates forced sex education experts to change their approach.
The 'just say no' approach wasn't working on its own.

'A PAUSE takes young people through the biological, emotional and practical aspects of sexual health. Early in secondary school life, teachers and health professionals teach the basic principles of human development, contraception, pregnancy and sexually transmitted infections, illustrating issues with 'real life stories'. Pupils discuss how they would deal with certain situations and decide the best course of action.'

''Peers educators' (16- to 18-year olds) undergo a 25-hour training programme, which enables them to run four classroom sessions with Year Nine students. The sessions focus on dispelling myths about sex and building self-esteem, and although a teacher or A PAUSE supervisor must be present, the peers lead the discussions without intervention.

Dr John Tripp, a consultant paediatrician who is a member of the team behind the A PAUSE programme, says that teenagers should not be pressurised into having sex. They may find it difficult to say 'no' without help. He says: 'Young people should not feel pressured, and should be prepared to deal with the dangers and manage them safely.'

A typical programme may include exploring the reasons why teenagers start having sex, examining media and peer pressure, performing role play and learning assertiveness techniques.'
         
                -------------------------------

The programme became the subject of great debate across the spectrum of the press.

"After reading about the project, Vanessa Feltz wrote in the Sunday Express: "The words 'batty' and 'harebrained' would spring to mind - if the words 'irresponsible' and 'dangerous' hadn't sprung first." The programme was criticised for the training it offers teachers, in which they are asked to consider how they would answer questions about anal sex, oral sex and, most controversially, the question: "What does semen taste like?"

John Rees, director of A Pause at Exeter University, says the furore came after only the second complaint made by a teacher in the 12 years the programme has been running. A Pause is also the only sex education programme in Europe that has been proven to work. Research into how it altered young people's behaviour was published in the British Medical Journal in 1995. It showed a 5% overall reduction in underage sex - that's 13% of those who would have actually had sex.

Rees says: "Young people can ask very challenging questions; we need to be prepared to respond properly. We discuss kissing, but of course we don't teach children how to do it. The same with anal or oral sex. We have to accept that they will ask questions that challenge our own values, and be prepared to answer questions within the framework of the programme by giving them a factually appropriate answer."

He adds wryly: "So with a question such as 'What does semen taste like?', we would advise them to refuse to answer it from a personal point of view. 'I don't know, I'll go away and find out for next week', would not be an appropriate response."

Simon Blake, of the National Children's Bureau and former head of the Sex Education Forum, is frustrated that such debates are still going on. "The question that we should be asking is, given that we are three years in from the teenage pregnancy strategy, what do we need to do next? This question of whether we should teach it has gone on too long; the big question is why are there still 16-year-olds who don't know anything about sex apart from how to spell 'fallopian tubes'?"

But there is much to celebrate. Figures released last week show that teenage pregnancy rates in England - famously the worst in Europe - have fallen for the third year in a row. There were 9% fewer teenage pregnancies in 2001 compared with 1998. In other words, a total of 8,000 pregnancies in girls under 18 have been prevented.

Many agencies, including the Family Planning Association, have welcomed the government's strategy, which is delivered via local authorities through schemes such as A Pause. So why is there still so much controversy over sex education? Blake says: "The issue is that sex education always frightens people, and raises anxieties about how and what to deliver. Mostly, the question for teachers is how parents and community will respond. The real thing we need to be concerned with is saying that sex education is OK."

Angela Phillips, who sits on the independent advisory committee of the teenage pregnancy unit, which runs the strategy, says: "Teachers need proper training to deliver sex education. Not everybody can handle it. But anybody who's doing sex education in school will be faced with questions that are deliberately intended to provoke. One of the ways pupils respond to embarrassment is to try to raise a laugh. As teachers you've got to be able to deal with it."

But Phillips argues that responsibility for the way we talk about sex is not just with the teachers, but society as a whole. "The problem with sex education is a collective embarrassment about sex. Kids are up against the overwhelming feeling that sex is naughty and probably nasty - that's the atmosphere in which young people are brought up to think about sex. You've got to be able to deal with it calmly, in a dignified and non-sniggering way."

And while the criticisms about A Pause make good headlines, Blake says they undermine the good and effective work that the government, schools and children are doing. "We know that if you politicise something it just makes people anxious. We've got to stop politicising sex education. It's not helpful for children and it's not helpful for those delivering it."

from   
The Guardian, Tuesday 4 March 2003

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 04:15 PM

The is a report upon which Lizzie probably based her last rant here

I will leave anyone who is really interested to see if the report says what Lizzie says it says.

But to save you the trouble - it doesn't. I suspect most of you knew that anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 04:00 PM

Lizzie you want everyone to respect your point of view and spurious rantings but the minute a teenager comes on you manage to sneer at them and patronise them.

The worst thing is - I suspect you don't even know you are doing it.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: GUEST,daisybell
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:55 PM

Because my school is all girls, they still measure our skirts once a week and are strict about uniform, but it doesn't take any focus off getting good grades. Just because things aren't the same now as they were when you were my age, doesn't mean they're worse, they're just different, and in some places they're probably better. Please stop putting my name in quotes, it's annoying.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:44 PM

It is, additionally, daisybell's "decent education", available at many state schools the length and breadth of the land, which enables her to write clearly and lucidly without any trace of sloppy orthographic or grammatical errors, about how life actually is for the majority of today's school students (and not to refer to them patronisingly as "kids"), as opposed to tracts copied and pasted from highly dubious publications and from the sensational gutter press.

Long may her G-strings prosper and her list of GCSEs lengthen.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:44 PM

Ah well, that'll be your decent education 'Daisybell', you got all the good teachers.

I belong to a time when girls weren't allowed to wear coloured bras under their blouses and had to have the skirts measured to see how many inches they were above the knee...

I went to the worst school in my district, despite passing my 11 plus, because I was desperate to go to the same school as my brother. My brother had failed his 11 plus because...er....he was dyslexic, but no-one knew about it back then...you were just 'slow and dimwitted', according to some, which always puzzled me, as he was never that at all, still isn't.

That's what I mean, about the 13 GCSEs, which is lovely, don't get me wrong, but....my brother could never have coped with that, indeed, none of us ever did, because it was practically unheard of to take more than 8 in those days...if that....but Educayshon wasn't a Corporate Business back then...just a weird place where people measured your skirt lengths...

Coloured bras, eh...Yeesh, am I old or WHAT! I can remember when they first came out! Oh, B***er!   :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:40 PM

Did you know that the wonderful Think Tank in Exeter University decided that a new way to avoid teenage pregnancies was for children to learn about Oral and Anal Sex. That way, they could lick, fidget with, fill each other's bums, satisfy their er...cravings...and NOT get pregnant! Yes! Isn't that wonderful!

And...the best part of it, is....it's TRUE! How do I know? I rang Exeter Uni up and spoke to the Department that had been telling this to children....The er....'professor' who'd come up with this highly questionable and decidely dodgy idea wasn't there at the time, but they assured me he wasn't a paedeophile, but someone who was very interested in ensuring that young girls didn't get pregnant...

You know Lizzie it may surprise you to know I don't believe you.

The last time you posted a link it said the opposite of what you said it said.

Why would someone say to a total stranger "He isn't a paedophile" except in response to a question as to whether he was or not. So did you ask if he was?

They must have thought you were crackers!!

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: GUEST,daisybell
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:38 PM

*needlework

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: GUEST,daisybell
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:37 PM

I don't know why you keep putting my name in quotes. It's just my name.

And I'm also left handed! What a small world. It hasn't caused me that many needleword issues, but I'll get back to you if that occurs

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:33 PM

Possibly 'daisybell', possibly.

I always think though, that the world would be a far better place if we returned to the days of cami-knickers...I had to draw out needlework plans for those, from the 1930s...for my Needlework teacher...I got so bored I threw them away....She was the deputy headmistress at the time and loathed me, as she had loathed my brother before me. She was an absolute old boot. I was left handed, so I sewed upside down and back to front, for her....

Of course,as far as I was concerned, SHE was the one who was doing it all arse over elbow, but..such is life in a right-handed world, where the teacher is always correct...and where, just like dyslexic folks, we have to learn 'their way' despite it screwing up our brains, making the messages go in the wrong direction...

Being left handed is pretty hard at times...

I think we should have a National Left Handed Day, where all right-handedness is banned.....

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: GUEST,daisybell
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:22 PM

Maybe it's my decent education that makes me understand irony. Unfortunately, we're not actually wearing G-strings.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:18 PM

"Me and my friends aren't in the minority because we're not on the brink of suicide and carring knives in our g-strings. "

Yikes! you're all wearing G strings?   Whatever happened to sensible navy blue knickers, 'Daisybell'...? :0)

"lizzie, sorry for the atrotious spelling."

jade, you never, EVER think that you need to apologise to me for spelling, grammar, whatever....I knew exactly what you meant.

The witch hunt that has followed me round for years focussed for so long on my grammar and spelling, trying so hard to undermine me, make me feel ignorant and stupid. They never achieved their aim. They did, however, make me fight harder for all of those who are similarly abused in this way...

I do Elizabethan spelling myself...as in I make it up as I go along sometimes, if I can't remember how to spell it.

I read that "Eats Shoots and Leaves' book...or at least, I started to, but I never got past the part where the author told us how she was more upset about the incorrect use of a word, in the reporting of 9/11 than she was about the actual incident itself.

I threw it away at that point....

If someone is more upset about grammar, than over that terrible day and the mountain of sadness it caused, still causes, to this day, then they have a hole in their soul...

You just write as you do, that's way good enough for me, jade...
xx

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: GUEST,daisybell
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:13 PM

I didn't mean you at all! I meant Lizzie. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: jeddy
Date: 04 Oct 09 - 03:10 PM

daisybell, i am sorry if you thought i was patronizing you, that was not my intention.

of course you know your life better than anyone.
i hope no one was trying to say you were lying or exagerating in any way! i certainly wasn't.

i appreciate your comments here, as i don't have kids or socialise with anyone who does, i have to say that on a day to day basis, i have no idea whats going on for teenagers.

my conclusions come from watching programmes like the jeremy kyle show, whick i acknowledge is a misrepresentaion of teenege mums.

j x x x x x