 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade...
|
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 27 Jun 11 - 04:54 PM PDQ seems to be confusing his own legislative priorities for his own paternal opinion of what is good for all. Things do not work that way. Its a democracy. Everyone gets a say. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Bill D Date: 27 Jun 11 - 04:50 PM The very conservative are trying to get more social issues INTO politics by attempting to load the courts with judges who will severely limit personal freedoms. No, it is NOT 'freedom' to be 'allowed' to go to any approved church... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: John P Date: 27 Jun 11 - 03:23 PM That is some of the most blatant trolling I have ever seen. Well, pdq, you don't seem able to carry on a conversation on this topic. How is asking you to clarify your positions trolling? I said I want most social issues taken out of politics. Yes you did. And I ask, again, what that means. Should abortion be illegal? Getting social issues out of politics could mean a complete abortion ban or a complete hands-off position. Should gay marriage be legal? Saying that you want social issues out of politics sounds like you're saying that there should be no legislation on marriage at all. Is that really your position? I said I want our elected officials to try to balance the budget at both Federal and state levels. Yes you did. What's that mean? No new taxes? Corporations losing their subsidies? A decrease in military spending? No Social Security? No Medicare? No regulatory bodies? I have no plans to propose solutions to all the world's problems as I have little or no responsibility for causing them. Yes, you said that, too. The question is whether or not you, as a self-professed libertarian, think the government should be involved in the world's problems? Also, if you pay taxes in the United States, you ARE part of whatever solutions the government comes up with. Really, if you don't want to have a discussion about these things, please go away and let the rest of us have at it. All you've done so far is bark out the same two sentiments over and over, without explaining what you mean by either of them. What good is that? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Richard Bridge Date: 27 Jun 11 - 03:03 PM FFS - go and read some Keynes. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: pdq Date: 27 Jun 11 - 02:28 PM That is some of the most blatant trolling I have ever seen. I said I want most social issues taken out of politics. I said I want our elected officials to try to balance the budget at both Federal and state levels. Fortunately, I live a state that has a constitutional mandate to balance the budget. I have no plans to propose solutions to all the world's problems as I have little or no responsibility for causing them. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: John P Date: 27 Jun 11 - 01:19 PM pdq, you seem to want to rail against things you don't like, but your ideas apparently can't stand having any light shed on them. Your only response to me when I asked for some pertinent clarification on your stated opinions was to say "This is going nowhere. I've heard all the talking points before". All you're really saying there is that you don't have an answer so you'll pretend everyone else is brainwashed by some "talking points" and therefore don't deserve an answer. Are your ideas really so weak? Just so you know, I don't listen to talking points. I'm not even sure what they are or where they come from. If you can't answer my questions, admit that you can't and move on. Otherwise, support your statements in a real way. Or, I suppose, continue to act like a petulant child. Do you think we can balance the budget without any new revenue sources? Do you think our government has a responsibility to see our health and safety? Do you think the government has any business telling us who can and can't enjoy the legal benefits of marriage? Do you think the government should regulate those who have power over our food supply, our power supply, our financial markets, and our environment? Do you think it is OK that corporate executives get paid hundreds of times more than almost everyone else? Do you think our military should lose funding? Do you think our military should be used to stop genocide? There's lots more, but I know you won't answer even this many. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: gnu Date: 26 Jun 11 - 05:07 PM Greg... too true and too sad. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Greg F. Date: 26 Jun 11 - 01:36 PM But few people ever accused them of philosophical or intellectual consistency or integrity. Or intelligence. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: DMcG Date: 26 Jun 11 - 04:42 AM Understood, Bill, and I agree its hard to fight an entire state. But the difference that I think is important it that it is claimed the legislation itself reveals inconsistancies with other legislation and these difference are aimed at subverting a federal ruling. And I can't believe the federal system will be too comfortable with that. That's the level that may give an effective opening, rather than individual cases. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Donuel Date: 25 Jun 11 - 09:26 PM Currently the most honored journalist who is presenting every aspect of the abortion issue is Rachel Maddow. She has produced two hour long specials on the perils of abortion providers and nearly once a week covers the new state laws that are eroding and in some cases elimination abortion rights. Three cheers for Rachel. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Bill D Date: 25 Jun 11 - 01:40 PM Not 'quite' the same, of course...but both required expensive remodeling to meet standards. Moody's Beanery DID try to reopen, but the $2000 he spent would not come close to what the average clinic would have to do....especially with the governor and state offices determined to shut them down. I HOPE there might be help from the ACLU to mount court challenges, but it's hard to fight the entire state. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: saulgoldie Date: 25 Jun 11 - 01:17 PM You know, it's one thing to refuse to spend public money on abortions. (Although in truth, tax money is always spent in some ways that some taxpayers do not approve of.) It's totally another to utterly deprive women of any shred of a chance of getting one even if they spend their *own* money. True Libertarians, which is what so many of the self-proclaimed "conservaties" often refer to themselves as would not meddle in private issues of family planning. But few people ever accused them of philosophical or intellectual consistency or integrity. Saul |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: DMcG Date: 25 Jun 11 - 01:03 PM Similar but not quite the same, Bill. It sounds as if it has been written into the legislation that men's rooms in such clinics need to larger than in, say, dentists or cafes. If that's right, there much be some mechanism to challenge it in court, which could end up overturning the whole caboodle. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Bill D Date: 25 Jun 11 - 12:55 PM This is similar to the tactics used many years ago in Wichita to shut down a 'beatnik' coffeehouse where 'those' people gathered to read poetry and sing left-wing pinko 'folk' music. (Allen Ginsberg made it 'famous' and probably thus contributed to its demise) At the time, one city inspector was quoted as saying: "I can find a way to shut down ANY business if ordered to do so." They simply did things like measure doorways and examine a couple of plumbing fixtures,,,and ZAP... no more coffehouse. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: JohnInKansas Date: 25 Jun 11 - 12:41 PM That being said, legislation aimed at requiring abortion providers to conform with code standards in their facilities does not strike me as assaultive to the right. The abortion clinic should have to conform to the same standards as, say, a dentist office. The problem is that before setting the new requirements exclusively for abortion clinics all exisitng and proposed abortion clinics were surveyed, the "rules" were written specifically to exclude them, the regulations were passed almost without notice and with no time for debate, and the "effective date" was set so that nobody would be able to modify their facilities to meet them. (The license for an existing clinic in Kansas City was REVOKED, effective less than two weeks after the regulations were published, reportedly on grounds that the men's visitors restroom was 8 inches short of a minimum length specified in the new regulation.) John |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: GUEST,999 Date: 25 Jun 11 - 09:32 AM Similar tactics are taking place in Canada as we all speak. People who have exposed or brought to public light 'shoddy industrial-waste practices' are then sued by the offended company for a few million. Hell, they have to fight the case and many go under in the process. There's even a law against that sort of court abuse, but guess what? Yeah, you guessed it. Government and the Courts seem not to care. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: katlaughing Date: 25 Jun 11 - 12:19 AM Our much-revered and much-misunderstood Constitution guarantees individual rights that supersede the whims of the majority - but many or most Americans do not understand or accept that. Well put, Joe. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 24 Jun 11 - 11:49 PM What astonishes me is that PDQ, who apparently wants Jeffersonian constitutionalism doesn't share Jefferson's intention that the constitution contains exactly what the duly appointed Supreme Court says it is. How can one admire Jefferson but argue with the basic mechanism of the Constitution? There are about 50 million misinformed Americans who need to answer this question. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: GUEST Date: 24 Jun 11 - 10:47 PM The poster, of course, is gargoyle... I have never agreed with YOU more Joe.
At the time of conception - one egg/one sperm
An INDIVIDUAL is created
The rights of this unique individual supercede all others: And the nine-month "inconvenience" of another person that finds this individual an "alien within their body" ... does not justify murder. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Joe Offer Date: 24 Jun 11 - 09:48 PM Sometimes, I think that Americans don't "get" the idea of constitutional government. Americans tend to believe more in "majority rule," meaning that whoever can get a majority, can bully the rest of us into anything the majority wants - even to the point of interfering with our pregnancies and personal relationships. Our much-revered and much-misunderstood Constitution guarantees individual rights that supersede the whims of the majority - but many or most Americans do not understand or accept that. -Joe- |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Richard Bridge Date: 24 Jun 11 - 09:05 PM PDthick, what on earth makes you think that a government should have no social responsibility? You are nauseating. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: pdq Date: 24 Jun 11 - 08:20 PM This going nowhere. I have heard all the talking points before. I said that all social issues should be addressed by somebody else, not the Federal government. Once the States solve their fiscal woes, they can start talking about social problems if they have nothing else to do. If they take any actions, those actions must be fully supported their constitution. Some of this sounds like children complaining about those meanies out in the playground whom the teacher is supposed to make stand in the corner. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: John P Date: 24 Jun 11 - 08:05 PM All legal rights are available in a civil union which all people can have, gay or straight. Which United States do you live in? Mine doesn't have civil unions. There are legal benefits that married people get and unmarried people don't. Homosexuals are barred from getting married. As for the term "marriage", if it's not available to everyone, it's not legal. Since the reason that so many people are opposed to using the word for a gay union is because it is a religious thing, they are ignoring the part of the Constitution that says we don't get to make laws based on a religion. Besides, you still haven't answered the question: Do you think our government should be in the business of deciding who gets to sleep with who? They should sit down and balance the budget with fair cuts to all programs. Including the military? What about subsidies to huge corporations? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: pdq Date: 24 Jun 11 - 07:53 PM No, the discussions have been going on for 50 years and we have nothing much show for the trouble. A Black can run a company with 60 employees, all Black, and he will never be prosecuted for discrimination. Jesse Jackson and Eric Holder say that discrimination is something that only White people can do. After 50 years of trying, we are so divided that most discrimination laws should be banned, except one applying to ads like "Mexican wanted to pick blueberries". So, just what are you being protected from in a homosexual marriage that require you to invoke the 14th Amendment? All legal rights are available in a civil union which all people can have, gay or straight. It is simply the term "marriage" that a minority want to force the majority to use and that is a form of tyranny. This can't be case where "equal protection" applies because you aren't being protected from anything. Our politicians are mostly a buncha assholes who posture for the camers and try to blame everything wrong on their opponents. They should sit down and balance the budget with fair cuts to all programs. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Bill D Date: 24 Jun 11 - 07:38 PM Sadly, few 'libertarians' have seriously thought out the implications of many of the slogans they profess. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: John P Date: 24 Jun 11 - 07:31 PM Well, PDQ, yes, I always prefer to have a discussion instead of an insult fest. I wish you were having a discussion. Re-stating your points that I already made rebuttals about doesn't fit the bill. Talk about where all the money that could be spent on schools is going. Do you think it is appropriate that an extremely small number of citizens get such a lion's share of our economy? Talk about the "will-regulated militia" concept. Also the fact that the Constitution always describes people who get individual rights as "persons" and always describes the rights we share as a people as belonging to "the People". The 2nd Amendment talks about "the People". How do you make that add up to an individual right to own a gun? Talk about whether or not you think our government should make laws about who should marry who and the Constitutional basis for any such law. A nice side note would why you want the government to stay out of our lives but don't want to address the legality homosexual marriage. Refer to the 14th Amendment, where it says "nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws" and then tell me why some people get the legal benefits from being married and others are denied these benefits. I understand that you don't care who sleeps with who. The question is whether or not you think the government should. C'mon! Let's have REAL discussion! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: katlaughing Date: 24 Jun 11 - 07:25 PM Three things: In Colorado there was much work done in the legislature and the governor's office to reduce the budget and it meant huge cuts in all kinds of funding, including schools. However, because of several things which were done, there is almost 70 million dollars which will be reinvested in education. See: Colorado to end fiscal year with $325 million more than budgeted By Tim Hoover The Denver Post Second thing is, IMO, the biggest threat to our country are people like the Koch brothers and their ilk who are, unfortunately, holding a big money planning session in western Colorado this weekend. I posted info about it HERE. Third thing is I was thinking today about how a lot of right-wing people claim to be followers of Jesus. Since he was born in the Middle East, has a Jewish name, and would probably be denied a visa to enter our country (rabble-rouser that he was,) if he came here he would be an illegal alien. Wouldn't that be a fun conundrum to present to the self-righteous bigots? JohninKS, thanks for the further info on Brownass. My grandmother was born in KS, was an old-fashioned Republican, and a teacher. I am sure she would be appalled if she could see what has become of her ancestral state. There HAS to be some way of opposing such insanity! kat |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Bill D Date: 24 Jun 11 - 07:16 PM "So, Bill D is saying the Mexican farm workers must be educated in out schools before the can pick blueberries? " Pooh! One bad form of argument is to put words in the others mouth. I am SAYING just what I said: that you have to be very careful what your objectives are AND how you implement them. "Bill D thinks he can ban all handguns because he doesn't like them. " again... I never said any such thing!. I HAVE explained at great length about the ambiguity in the 2nd amendment and the need to update it in light of modern considerations. But I also have said....which you either never read or chose to ignore... that I did NOT believe or expect that we would or could ban all handguns. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: pdq Date: 24 Jun 11 - 06:20 PM John P... At least you are tring to have a discussion. Look at most of the posts so far...others ain't. To be blunt, I don't care where you stick your penis or when you abort a fetus. I have important things to worry about. One of those is the economy, which many experts say is as good as it will very be again. This is the "new normal". If you want "poor" people to get free abortions, start a charity and give as much as you want. Oprah Winfrey has more money than Donald Trump. I'm sure she will help. The main point about the Constitution is that is the underpinnings of all US law. If legislation is not supported by the Constitution, it cannot exist. And most Americans are sick and tired of the fringe Left gun-grabbers who want the Second Ammendment expunged. All of our Founding Fathers owned guns and many wrote that private ownership was guaranteed. The recent attempt to castrate the Second Amendment go back perhaps to the 1950. Bill D thinks he can ban all handguns because he doesn't like them. It just don't work that way and that is why we have the Bill of Rights. Bill D ain't the Bill of Rights. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: gnu Date: 24 Jun 11 - 06:12 PM pdq.... PS... I still have hope for The Good Old USA no matter what kinda idiots and hatemongers get into government. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: pdq Date: 24 Jun 11 - 06:01 PM My statement was in connection with the money being spent on the education when the states are almost all bankrupt. Most states have a constitution that does not allow deficit spending such as out ferderal government allows. So, Bill D is saying the Mexican farm workers must be educated in out schools before the can pick blueberries? I really doubt that. To put things in perspective, California has only 75,000 full-time farm jobs, but they have 12 million illegal aliens from Mexico and a total population approaching 43 million. Perhaps Bill D will be so kind as to talk a few of the 18th Street Gang members into picking broccoli? That gang is new 20,000 right now and growing, most born in Mexico City. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: John P Date: 24 Jun 11 - 05:48 PM Wow, PDQ, such contradiction, right in the first two sentences. How do you reconcile a desire to have the government not tell people how to behave with a desire to have the government tell people who they can sleep with? Once again, all the assholes who want to use the government to force other people to "behave" must be fought in every place they are. Anyone who thinks that abortion, homosexuality, discrimination or financial equality are part of he Constitution should have their head examined. You're really not making much sense. Besides, it is in the Constitution, it's called equal treatment under the law. What's not mentioned in the Constitution is any definition of marriage. The right to private gun ownership is in the great founding document and only a few fringe nuts think it isn't. Which militia are they all members of? Selective reading of the 2nd Amendment is the only way that anyone can say that private gun ownership is a Constitutional right. If you really think opposition to unlimited private gun ownership is only present in fringe nuts, you are sadly misinformed about what's going on. Restore fiscal responsibility You failed to respond to some questions I put you earlier about fiscal responsibility. Telling me I'm wrong isn't an answer. There's lots of money. The problem is who gets it and who doesn't. To be sure, abortion clinics must be sanitary and the personel must be trained and certified. That constitutes "reasonable restrictions" and everyone should be fine with that. Agreed. Are the Kansas restrictions reasonable, as in are they the same as for any other medical clinic? Abortion of a healthy fetus at 8 1/2 months is wrong in my book, but as a libertarian, I would allow others to do what they want. They should be grown-up enough to let others do the same. Glad to hear it. Do you support all the efforts all over the country to make abortion unavailable to poor women? If so, now is that not the government telling us how to behave? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Bill D Date: 24 Jun 11 - 05:46 PM It is interesting to read pdq's opposition to 'illegal immigrants' as he tries to make sure ONLY good citizens get educated and receive health care...etc...etc... While we ALL know that the immigration system and enforcement needs a lot of overhaul, it is enlightening to read of the situsation in one state where they DID crack down on them durned illegal workers. In Georgia, one state legislator introduced a heavy law providing strict control...and got it passed.... and signed! ...Now, crops...from blueberries to cucumbers are rotting in the fields in Georgia because they are 11,000 field workers short. Here is a Google search for more stories on the topic It seems that the phrase "cutting off your nose to spite your face" might be relevant here. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Bobert Date: 24 Jun 11 - 05:40 PM Mick and I are on the same page here... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: pdq Date: 24 Jun 11 - 05:29 PM gnu... I expected more class from you...maybe your reading is impared, because I said nothing that relates to your response. Perhaps you are just having a bad day. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Big Mick Date: 24 Jun 11 - 05:04 PM Thanks, Bill and Greg, for saving me a ton of typing. These sorts have a memory that only goes back to the beginning of the Reagan era. They fail to examine the most critical data. If they would, it would sweep the chaff away that the right wing noise machine makes. If they would simply look at the centralization of wealth in fewer and fewer hands, then look historically at what happens when this occurs, and it becomes clear what needs to happen. All the best, Mick |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: gnu Date: 24 Jun 11 - 04:59 PM "Anyone who thinks that abortion, homosexuality, discrimination or financial equality are part of he Constitution should have their head examined." Human rights need not be part of ANY constitution. Your other illogical bullshit is not worth responding to. I shall not engage you any further as your posts speak for themselves. You are contemptable, callous and beyond reason. Perhaps someday, if and when you are in need of compassion, you will receive it from those unlike yourself... if the rest of us were like you, you'd be fucked at that point. I hope St. Peter isn't having a bad day when you get to the gates... well, kinda... >;-) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 24 Jun 11 - 04:53 PM >>The right to private gun ownership is in the great founding document and only a few fringe nuts think it isn't.<< only at part of a "well armed militia" and that is in an amendment, one of Jefferson's gifts to us, taking the responsibility of governing in 2011, from him and giving it to the people who live here. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Greg F. Date: 24 Jun 11 - 04:52 PM Hey PeeDee: "Tell your story walking" - as my sainted grandmother was wont to say. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: pdq Date: 24 Jun 11 - 04:45 PM Once again, all the assholes who want to use the government to force other people to "behave" must be fought in every place they are. They are on the Left, Right and in the nebulous Center. Anyone who thinks that abortion, homosexuality, discrimination or financial equality are part of he Constitution should have their head examined. The right to private gun ownership is in the great founding document and only a few fringe nuts think it isn't. Restore fiscal responsibility, close the border, rebuild our roads and bridges and teach our (not other's) childern to read and write. If people have social issues to deal with, call the chaplin. I don't need to here about it and surely cannot do anything about wide-spread social problems anyway To be sure, abortion clinics must be sanitary and the personel must be trained and certified. That constitutes "reasonable restrictions" and everyone should be fine with that. The "reasonable restrictions" standard is the same one used with privat party gun ownership. Abortion of a healthy fetus at 8 1/2 months is wrong in my book, but as a libertarian, I would allow others to do what they want. They should be grown-up enough to let others do the same. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: John P Date: 24 Jun 11 - 04:21 PM There is plenty of money in our economy to pay for everything. Unfortunately, so much of the money is going to a few extremely wealthy individuals that there isn't enough left over to pay for our schools, infrastructure, or basic social services. The goal of the ultra-rich, of course, is to do away with the funding and the political will for any sort of regulation of their desire to fleece the economy even more. The rest of it is collateral damage or a sop to extreme right-wing Christian voters. PDQ, tell me why a corporate executive deserves to make a thousand times more than I do. Tell me how their money in my politics isn't bribery. Tell me why so many very profitable corporations don't pay and taxes and get huge subsidies. Tell me why the people who are in a position to divide up the money always keep most of it for themselves. Tell me why there should be people flying between their eight homes in private jet liners while children are starving. Then tell me about how there's not enough money to pay for schools. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: gnu Date: 24 Jun 11 - 04:20 PM pdq... then, why isn't YOUR government doing what you say they should be doing instead of spending YOUR time and money acting like complete fucking assholes and screwing over the women and families of your FREE country? JAYSUS! Give your head a shake to see if it rattles on accounta that kinda illogical bullshit rattles a lot of other people. Are you fuckin serious????? And, I didn't call YOU any names... just questioned your logic. You can reply in kind but I don't see how that is possible. Enlighten me if you can and I will apologize if you do so. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Greg F. Date: 24 Jun 11 - 02:11 PM Government spending has been on a 20-year binge and we have come to expect social services that cannot be paid for in today's economy. Sorry, but no. Government Tax Cuts For The Filthy Rich have been on a 30 year binge, and despite the fact that these Voodoo Economics have demonstrably put the U.S. economy in the toilet, the brain dead, the delusional and the deniers (I hope you recognize yourself, PeeDee) STILL propose this bullshit to "fix" the economy. Oh, ye generation of morons. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Bill D Date: 24 Jun 11 - 01:37 PM "Most Americans are sick and tired of hearing about abortion, homosexuality, even discrimination of most types." Are you sure? You mean those who agree with YOU? And this makes it less important? "People who talk about homosexual marriage and abortion are not people I will listen to anymore." Do you stick your fingers in your ears and go "Nyah...Nyah...Nyah..."? Or just turn to Fox News and let the distortions wash comfortably over you? "It's time to fix the economy and rally the American people, not insult them." Well it's also time to admit who broke the economy with illegal wars and deregulation which only helped the rich and widened the economic divide! You do not "rally the American people" by taking away their labor unions, reducing their incomes, trashing Medicare & Social Security, and allowing the Supreme Court to vote with corporate interests on every issue! The Republicans seem to think that winning temporary control of the House and a few more governorships gave them a mandate to gut every social program and allow the rich to get richer. We will see how THAT works out next year....maybe before if those recall elections in Wisconsin go as expected. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: MarkS Date: 24 Jun 11 - 01:33 PM Abortion is a right and will not go away - and I support the womans right to choose. No argument. That being said, legislation aimed at requiring abortion providers to conform with code standards in their facilities does not strike me as assaultive to the right. The abortion clinic should have to conform to the same standards as, say, a dentist office. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 24 Jun 11 - 12:41 PM You have the Government Jefferson designed in the Constitution. There are the balance of powers and the amending formula allowing the people today to govern themselves. I don't think he envisioned that there would be people alive today dumb enough to try to throw all of that away and revert to the government of 1780's. Thank God and Jefferson that the Constitution does not allow that. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: pdq Date: 24 Jun 11 - 12:32 PM People who talk about homosexual marriage and abortion are not people I will listen to anymore. I want the government Jefferson had in mind. People in all parts of the political spectrum talk about issues that are not the job of government to solve. It can't solve them anyway, and the last 50 years of trying to prove that. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 24 Jun 11 - 12:26 PM PDQ its the people on your side that keep bringing those issues to the fore, politically. Kansas and Brownbeck had a choice to focus on the economy or to start another abortion battle. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: pdq Date: 24 Jun 11 - 12:08 PM Most Americans are sick and tired of hearing about abortion, homosexuality, even discrimination of most types. We have spent 50 years working on social issues. It's time to fix the economy and rally the American people, not insult them. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Donuel Date: 24 Jun 11 - 12:00 PM I am of keen interest to many of those right wing nutters. I in fact am an abortion who survived. It stands to reason that there are probably many of us, but few who are ever told the truth, and fewer still who would retell the truth. After you let that sink in, realize how interesting this culture war over this issue has been to me. If you know anything about me, you know that I am not a right wing nutter and whole heartedly support women's rights so they are not put into desperate back room situations because of the intolerence of men. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: pdq Date: 24 Jun 11 - 11:53 AM As always, Richard "Low" Bridge is name-calling and attemping to bait people into joining him in the toilet. That does not work on most people. If someone has an informed response to what I said, I will debate the points. BTW, illegal aliens are not legally the resposibility of our government. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Richard Bridge Date: 24 Jun 11 - 11:45 AM So, pdq, you don't care that what is being done is illegal? I knew you were a right wing nutter, but I had not until now realised what a sociopath you really were. It is the job of a government to care for its people, and to do that it must tax the rich properly. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: pdq Date: 24 Jun 11 - 11:32 AM ...Kansas state legislature has passed legislation with so many regulations of abortion clinics and no time to comply... ...the new (Republican) Governor...has cut virtually all funding for social services of all kinds, reduced school budgets to the tune of several thousand jobs eliminated... Meanwhile, kids who don't speak English are getting no education. All different issues. Government spending has been on a 20-year binge and we have come to expect social services that cannot be paid for in today's economy. The abortions issue is like homosexuality and other social issues. It should be the concern of government only after the real jobs are done. A libertarian might suggest that they are not the government's place at all. Children who do not speak English are almost always the product of illegal aliens. In some parts of Texas and California, they are almsot the only kids in the public school system. Their parents pay nothing but a little bit of sales tax, in most cases. That is one reason for the movement to raise sales tax in many parts of the country. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: JohnInKansas Date: 24 Jun 11 - 11:23 AM leenia - The Kansas Supreme Court a few years ago ruled that the State had failed to meet the mandate of the State Constitution which states that "an education" must be provided to all children. By Court Order, it was required that school budgets be increased by a minimum of 30% just to meet the minimum requirement of the State Constitution. The State Legislature responded with an increase of approximately 15%, bringing funding to 88% of the absolute minimum that teh Court said was necessary. Distribution of the increase in funds was Gerrymandered so that it was directed almost entirely to 10% of the schools that already had the "richest support" (because they were in areas where the lobbyists meet the legislators and the most money was available for candidate support). The Governor has just cut nearly 40% from the already ILLEGALLY INADEQUATE school budgets, based on a school population at the time of the judgement. Student populations have increased, according to the somewhat vague reports I've seen, by nearly 30% since the order was issued. There have been numerous and regular "consolidations" here, with schools having small populations being merged to eliminate waste, but classroom sizes are already near 70 students per class in many areas (and most teachers have 3 or 4 classes every day). The budget cuts eliminate nearly all "teaching assistants" who could at least grade papers. Many teachers will now be trying to keep track of 280 kids unassisted - but I'm sure each kid will get careful and individual attention to any needs (yeah, sure). The Wichita grade school my kids went to 20 years ago had approximately 1800 students in one school, grades K thru 6, with about 30 teachers. The last time I drove by, there were about 15 "temporary classrooms" (in what are essentially trailers) where much of the "playground" used to be, so I assume it's larger now. There are NO "small schools" left anywhere that I've heard of, although in some of the "smaller districts" the average distance the kids commute to get to school is already over 30 miles - twice a day - so that kids from several towns can all go to a single school. A year or so ago, Kansas ranked about #36 (of 50) for spending per student, so there were worse places. Governor Brownass apparently is shooting for #50. John |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: gnu Date: 24 Jun 11 - 11:00 AM "Bastards." Times ten! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 24 Jun 11 - 10:25 AM I certainly don't agree with the governor's politics, but I've to comment about closing schools. Sometimes there are useless schools sitting in neighborhoods with almost no kids in them. Meanwhile, kids who don't speak English are getting no education. There are more special-needs kids. Why keep extra buildings up with money that should be spent on programs? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: GUEST,kendall Date: 24 Jun 11 - 07:22 AM Stupid bastards, they probably think Roe vs Wade was the question Washington faced as he crossed the Delaware. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Ebbie Date: 24 Jun 11 - 12:23 AM "Ignorance is Good" "Arbeit machs Frei" Catchy little phrases. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: JohnInKansas Date: 23 Jun 11 - 11:44 PM Along with effectively eliminating all legal abortions, the new (Republican) Governor Brownass has cut virtually all funding for social services of all kinds, reduced school budgets to the tune of several thousand jobs eliminated, removed all funding for school music programs (with a few sparse exceptions), and eliminated all but "A team" sports in the high schools. He also recommends closing of many schools, although that seems still to be "pending." He has of course continued to spout the Republican line that "job creation" is the number one priority, while putting several thousand teachers who might help make students into useful workers out of work. He also loudly proclaims the "no new taxes" (for our rich friends) while nearly all local jurisdictions are being forced into proposing new sales taxes (regressive and already high in comparison to other states, but the big donors don't pay them) in order to restore some of the state cuts from local budgets. The new Republican motto here appears to be "IGNORANCE is good for us (Republicans), and we'll enforce it no matter what." While a Senator, he introduced (multiple times) legislation to prohibit the US Supreme court from hearing any complaint about any law, or enforcement, of any action committed or performed by any "public official in god's name." (He never said which god.) John |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: katlaughing Date: 23 Jun 11 - 10:43 PM Bastards. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Bill D Date: 23 Jun 11 - 10:33 PM When *I* lived in Wichita, Kansas I knew a man who did backroom abortions...with coathangers! (Oh, he was careful...and I don't 'think' he seriously injured anyone)...I suppose that practice will be making a comeback.... if the courts and the ACLU don't get that stupid law blocked. |
|
Subject: BS: Kansas 1st State to Kill Roe v. Wade... From: Bobert Date: 23 Jun 11 - 09:47 PM Oh, those wacky Republicans... The Republican controlled Kansas state legislature has passed legislation with so many regulations of abortion clinics and no time to comply that it has, in essence, voided Roe v. Wade... From the size of bathrooms to the numbers of consultation rooms, the Repubs, who usually hate government regs, have put laws on the books to void a woman's right to choose in Kansas... Here we go... The rich women in Kansas will take those little weekenders (wink, wink) while poor Kansas women will be stuck caarying babies who will be ignored by these Kansas Repubs once born... And the beat goes on and the Taliban is lovin' it... B~ |
