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BS: Get Out of Iraq Now!
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Subject: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,Frank Date: 06 Nov 04 - 06:51 PM We waded the Big Muddy through Vietnam and it took so long to wake up. Now that Kerry is history, we can say what we really want. Support our troops and bring them home. If Bush starts the draft, "hell no, we won't go!" Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: dianavan Date: 06 Nov 04 - 07:12 PM Frank - The only good thing about Bush being re-elected is that the anti-war movement can begin now instead of waiting for Kerry to decide what to do. It would have been very difficult to protest against a Kerry administration who could easily shift the blame. Out of Iran! d |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Georgiansilver Date: 06 Nov 04 - 07:15 PM Blair sent our lads from the Black Watch in and what's happened already??? 3 dead........mmmmmm. Sorrow and sympathy for their families. Best wishes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: akenaton Date: 06 Nov 04 - 07:16 PM Thats the spirit Frank...Kick this phony democracy into touch. "An old dog for the hard road, a pup for the pavement"...Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Dead Horse Date: 06 Nov 04 - 09:26 PM If you dont want dead soldiers, dont have an army. Simple really. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,Osama Date: 06 Nov 04 - 09:36 PM Yes. Please leave. I am running out of idiots and virgins. Big O |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST Date: 07 Nov 04 - 12:40 AM This rings pretty damn hollow, coming from an ardent supporter of one of the two pro-war candidates? Nice to know that all the people who have died in Iraq since Kerry became the Democratic frontrunner, died at the altar of Democratic party political expediency. Doesn't get much sicker than that, does it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: CarolC Date: 07 Nov 04 - 02:02 AM Osama's in Iraq now? Must be doing some more black-ops for the CIA. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: dianavan Date: 07 Nov 04 - 03:09 AM OUT OF IRAQ INTO SUDAN ! I mean it. Occupation of Iraq is wrong! Saving people in Sudan is right. If Bush could actually pull out of Iraq in a timely fashion and re-deploy those troops for a good cause, he might end up looking like a true, American hero. I think Christians love little, black babies cuz I seen it on t.v. He could even claim that this time he listened to the people. d |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Amergin Date: 07 Nov 04 - 04:00 AM fuck that. bring the soldiers home. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Wolfgang Date: 07 Nov 04 - 07:13 AM If you dont want dead soldiers, dont have an army. Simple really. (Dead horse) Sounds really good at the first reading. Now let's apply this to other situations: If you dont want dead policemen, dont have a police. Simple really. If you dont want dead firefighter, dont have a firestation. Simple really. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Dead Horse Date: 07 Nov 04 - 07:38 AM Irony, Wolfgang. Irony! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,Osama Date: 07 Nov 04 - 08:13 AM You Americans need a government run by the minority. Big O |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,US Date: 07 Nov 04 - 09:15 AM Hail Yess. All of you foreign jihadists pack your weapons and leave for I blow your asses away. Uncle Sam |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST Date: 07 Nov 04 - 01:46 PM Careful what you say or film or write about muslims, I'm shaking in me boots. Same as Christians eh???? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: DougR Date: 07 Nov 04 - 03:44 PM Not before the Iraqis elect a government of it's own and doesn't have to fear ending up in an unmarked mass grave. Then the troops will come home, and leave Iraq a better place to live. Witness: Afghanstan. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,Frank Date: 07 Nov 04 - 04:08 PM Wolfgang, I don't like the idea of dead soldiers for Mr. Bush's Iraq war. What are they fighting for? "Hey Hey Bush and Delay, how many kids did you kill today!" Doug, Just look at Afghanistan. No Osama and the biggest source of opium and heroin in the world. The Taleban are not defeated but still raid. Mission Accomplished? Dianavan, US needs the UN to help solve this problem in the Sudan. The Janjaweed are horrible gangsters and a world police action would be appropriate. Only problem, under Bush it would be another excuse to promote his Crusade. Honestly folks, do you feel safer with Bush at the helm? He is able to push the button now. Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST Date: 07 Nov 04 - 04:19 PM Honestly Frank, you have all the blood on your hands that Bush, et al have--you supported their war by supporting the Republican Lite pro-war candidate. How many lives did blind support for the Kerry hawk take? Quite a few. You are so pathetic in your attempts to make yourself look like Bush being re-elected wasn't your fault. You are sleazily trying to weasal out of any accountability for your actions supporting a pro-war candidate. Do any of us feel safer with Bush at the helm? What the hell kind of ludicrous statement is that? The progressive left that wasn't blinded by hatred for Bush, that still had functioning intellects, NEVER supported EITHER pro-war candidate. You just keep refusing to accept responsibility for Bush's re-election, and think you can come in mouthing the anti-war rhetoric you shouted down on November 1st. You are a damn hypocrite. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,US Date: 08 Nov 04 - 12:44 AM We are coming to blow those camel herdin' diaper heads away to join Allah. Peace be upon him. Uncle Sam |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,US Date: 08 Nov 04 - 12:46 AM You soldiers over in Iraq hear that? Not everybody here is a pussy. Uncle sam |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Ellenpoly Date: 08 Nov 04 - 01:44 AM Get out of Vietnam Now! Oops. Thirty years later and we've done it again. GUEST,US-May I personally invite you to go over to Vietn..I mean Iraq, and pick up a gun you are so willing for others to use...and join in the fray? Please do. And if you chance to come back in a body bag, I for one, will mourn, as I have been mourning each and every day of this Vietnam..oops, I mean Iraqui-war. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,Robin Hoode Date: 08 Nov 04 - 05:34 AM WAR, HUH, GOOD GOD, Y'ALL WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR ABSOULUTELY FUCK ALL! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Bobert Date: 08 Nov 04 - 08:44 AM Yes, bring 'um home NOW... Iraq in some way is worse than Vietnam in that the folks who have decided that its a good idea apparently learned nothing from Vietnam. Every day that the US continues to occupy Iraq is another good day for the terrorists. With every Iraqi death two more terrorists are created. The occupation is not only bad policy but bad for the US's reputation. As I have said many times, when the US pulls out there will be civil war. It doesn't matter if it's today, two years or 10 years from now. It is inevitable... The best the US can hope for is repairing the damage it did to the United Nations so that body has international respect and can be used more effectively to stop future oportunistic, so called pre-emptive invasions by bully nations, the US being one. Yes, GET OUT NOW... And get back to good old fashioned foriegen policy of diplomacy... BObert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST Date: 08 Nov 04 - 08:53 AM And the new rallying war cry is "support the troops". There are also the war apologists, like more than a few of the Kerry folks, who keep saying oh no, we can't pull out, now that we're there we need to finish the job, like they are in Falluja right now. Support the troops slaughtering Iraqis and plunging the entire region into war? Not in my name, thanks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,EURO Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:19 AM "You Americans need a government run by the minority." In fifty years you'll have your wish. Euro-Americans (white Americans of European ancestry) will be a minority. But don't look to us to bail you out when America REALLY gets screwed. The world looks to America to help them when disaster strikes in their own countries. In America the current minorities expect government programs established by Euro-Americans to help them. In fifty years you all will be on your own, no one will save your sorry assess then. We'll sit back and watch all of you "de-evolved" into self destruction. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,US Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:25 AM What the fuck is your name guest? Boy George? Uncle Sam |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,liberace Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:28 AM i'm guessin yours is metal cock-sucker |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:50 AM I'm tired of the cream of our young people dying to support the whining entitlement minded parasites in this country. I'm tired of an entire generation of promise being blown away to put gas in your SUV. I'm tired of ungrateful "fair-weather friend" nations. I'm tired of all those who think they are owed something just because they exist. Fend for yourselves, a day of reckoning is coming. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,US Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:56 AM The day of reckoning is here for the Terrorists in Falujah. If you feel so much for them, go and join them. Uncle Sam |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:58 AM Terroists I have no time for, but that does not include the majority of innocents who are bound to be killed in large numbers |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST Date: 08 Nov 04 - 10:01 AM Uncle Sam open your eyes. I don't feel for them. I feel for us as a nation. Don't you feel any compassion for our own people dying? Are you a parent? A soldier? A child? of anyone who has gone off to war? Our young people are dying for gas?!?!?! You don't think that's horrible? This is not a noble war. We don't have the support of our former allies, we may never have it again. There are small children whose fathers have died who are too young to be able to remember them when they are grown. Stop your flag waving long enough to see the tragedy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,8:53 a.m. Date: 08 Nov 04 - 10:13 AM So Guest 10:01, you are saying we should only be concerned about the lives and safety of American troops? Who is it you are talking about that you don't feel for? The terrorists? How about the Iraqi civilians caught in the crossfire? Does the tragedy include them, or do you prefer just not thinking about innocent civilians being blown to bits by our air strikes? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST Date: 08 Nov 04 - 10:30 AM I'm saying 8:53am we need to do what the rest of the world does. Take care of our own first. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,8:53 a.m. Date: 08 Nov 04 - 10:39 AM Hmmmm, now how is it exactly that "our own" got themselves across the world in "their country"? How exactly is invading and occupying a foreign country which posed no threat to us, and slaughtering it's population for resisting that invasion and occupation, "taking care of our own"? Hey I know! Maybe if we can take care of our own in Iraq, we'll figure out how to take care of our own here at home! Wont' that be a special day. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,US Date: 08 Nov 04 - 10:46 AM Guest: All your feeling is in the head of your dick. Are you a Citizen of the US or just a fucking agitator? Uncle Sam |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,8:53 a.m. Date: 08 Nov 04 - 10:55 AM From today's BBC News: "The first hurdle therefore that this operation has to overcome is to avoid major civilian casualties. If it turns out to be a blood bath, the warning from the UN Secretary General Kofi Annan that it might jeopardise the very political process it is designed to support, could come true." And we all know that keeping the sham elections on schedule is much more important than protecting civilian lives, their homes, and the cities' infrastructures and institutions like hospitals and clinics. The BBC finishes up with this: "Key problems will remain after the battle is over. The hope among US and Iraqi government strategists is that the insurgents will at last be on the run and that the tide will be turned. The fear is that the insurgents will gain more support, that they will be dispersed but will not disappear." Funny isn't it, how when you hear a slaughter referred to as a "battle" or a "military operation" or even a "siege" you just don't think about the civilians at all? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST Date: 08 Nov 04 - 11:01 AM CNN anchor Carol Lin just narrated some shocking footage provided to the cable network by the US military or an embedded pool camera. It shows what she said are Iraqi special forces and US troops storming Fallujah's main hospital and taking control of it. She said it is "important to take over this hospital so that the doctors can treat any war casualties unimpeded without any pressure from insurgents to spout anti-American propaganda like 'Americans are killing civilians,' et cetera." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST Date: 08 Nov 04 - 11:12 AM 11:01, see my remarks in the Falluja thead on the storming of the hospital there. This is yet another day of shame for the US. We are barbarians. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,US Date: 08 Nov 04 - 11:20 AM Giest: Obviously you are one of those Limey wimps like Neville Chamberlain. Uncle Sam |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST Date: 08 Nov 04 - 11:24 AM As the "battle" of Falluja unfolds, we shouldn't expect to see the suffering of the Iraqi people or the brutality of our troops in Western news reports. Those channels of information will be conscientiously foreclosed and replaced with "embedded" reporters whose job is to detail the valiant struggle of US marines subduing the native population. When the US media merges with the US military, the media can easily make even a civilian bloodbath look like heroism. Support the troops, y'all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,US Date: 08 Nov 04 - 11:30 AM Terrorists are clever at using media to spread propaganda. The BBC has fallen into their trap. They have the Brits on thier side. The wrong side. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,Limey son of a bitch Date: 08 Nov 04 - 11:43 AM Yes Uncle Sam, we Brits are on the side of the terrorists. Can't you tell. The Black Watch are secretly supplying ammo and guns to insurgents. Blair is trying to destroy America from the inside. Wake up Sam and smell the truth. The kind of clap trap that gives your countrymen a bad name. And the Neville Chamberlain Bullshit, don't get me started. The Yanks took how long to join the war effort. I'm British, I was appalled at what happened on Sept 11th, but that don't mean I authorise the killing of civillians. Either find something intelligent to say or shut the hell up moron. Limey and proud |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,Frank Date: 08 Nov 04 - 11:49 AM I could answer this diatribe but it wouldn't mean anything. The premise is absurd. When Guest says: "Honestly Frank, you have all the blood on your hands that Bush, et al have--you supported their war by supporting the Republican Lite pro-war candidate." It becomes a smear campaign just like the Swift Boat for Truth ads. I will reiterate that the only reason Kerry supported the war was that he thought that a threat would keep the UN inspectors in place. He was consistent. I don't agree with this position but I could understand it. "How many lives did blind support for the Kerry hawk take? Quite a few." Kerry didn't instigate a pre-emptive strike on Iraq. Bush did. He said he would have handled it differently. He did not say how. "You are so pathetic in your attempts to make yourself look like Bush being re-elected wasn't your fault. You are sleazily trying to weasal out of any accountability for your actions supporting a pro-war candidate." This kind of rhetoric will ensure the GOP a run for the next thirty years. Why is it that there are some rabble rousers on the Left who refuse to do anything important but trash others who would normally be on their side? Why is Guest so angry? Is he a plant by Republican operatives? Sounds just like Karl Rove to me. "Do any of us feel safer with Bush at the helm? What the hell kind of ludicrous statement is that? The progressive left that wasn't blinded by hatred for Bush, that still had functioning intellects, NEVER supported EITHER pro-war candidate." The statement wasn't addressed to the Guest who by the way is unable to reveal his name. That's what makes it so suspicious. I think Kerry was more a potential statesman than Bush and would have brought our troops home. Now with Bush in power we will never know. All Bush, Cheney and Rove have to do is point a finger at our Guest here and laugh. "You just keep refusing to accept responsibility for Bush's re-election, and think you can come in mouthing the anti-war rhetoric you shouted down on November 1st. You are a damn hypocrite." Too bad the Guest's anger isn't channelled toward a more productive end. Since I worked very hard to get Kerry elected, I bear no responsibility for Bush's election. OTOH, the Guest is apparently not anti-war since he seems to feel that yelling and screaming violence is the answer to solving the world's problems. I think the Guest is very young and needs to take his rage out on someone else. But the problem with this kind of rage and smear is that it doesn't solve anything and really adds to the ammunition of the Right-wing. It's the same old problem with some like Guest on the Radical Left. They kind of mirror the Radical Right in shouting down the opposition and refusing to reason with dialogue. It's too easy to smear and yell epithets because it takes away from their responsibility to have a decent dialogue with the rest of the world.This may be one reason why Progressives are not in office now. I am sincere in believing that we should support our troops by bringing them home. I don't agree that Kerry was responsible for any of the blood letting in Iraq. He, unlike the Guest, has had experience in war and knows how horrible it really is. He has served on the basis of his convictions which I respect. Please, folks on the Left, can't we start organizing and getting together rather than smearing each other and by so doing claim some kind of superior moral ground? I hear Karl Rove's laughter now. Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST Date: 08 Nov 04 - 11:51 AM Most the international news outlets (except the US ones of course) are beginning to report that boys and men are no longer being allowed to leave the area around Fallujah, and that Allawi has now closed all of Iraq's borders and Baghdad international airport. These are all clear signs of a massacre going on. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Nov 04 - 11:57 AM The Nazis established puppet regimes in occupied countries too, Doug. Vidkun Quisling ran one of them in Norway, didn't he? Another comparable regime: Ngo Dinh Diem in South Vietnam. Remember him? To think that the USA is establishing...or ever had any intention of establishing...a democracy in Iraq (or anywhere else) is to believe in an utter and absolute fairy tale. The USA establishes puppet client states who follow orders without question or get terminated. Now, I'm not saying that YOU don't want democracy in Iraq. I know you do. That's fine. But what you don't get is that that is NOT what your government wants or has any intention of doing. And it never was. You're being taken for a ride, Doug, and supporting a very bad government without knowing it. There were 80 million Germans who did the same thing once, and people couldn't tell them a thing either. Remember? Most of them were good people, same as you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: DougR Date: 08 Nov 04 - 04:11 PM Hold up for just a minute and think. Have those of you who advocate immediate withdrawal of Coalition troops from Iraq thought about what would happen to the Iraqi people were we to do that? Think about it. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Once Famous Date: 08 Nov 04 - 04:17 PM They don't get it DougR. The Iraqui people would be dogmeat if we weren't there fighting for them to have a democracy. They just don't get it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Peace Date: 08 Nov 04 - 04:40 PM Many of the Iraqi people would suffer seriously were the Yanks, Brits, etc., pull out. The UN will end up resolving this mess. You do NOT use hot war troops to be peacekeepers. That is not their training. End the war. Replace the troops--call Canada, we know what we're doing (unless it involves submarines)--and get the hell out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Once Famous Date: 08 Nov 04 - 04:58 PM We gave the UN their chance. Over and over again. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,Frank Date: 08 Nov 04 - 05:26 PM We never gave UN a chance. The Inspectors were doing a good job. But the Right-wing warmongers decided that it wasn't in their best political interest to let the inspections take place. They'd rather go in and slaughter innocent people in Iraq. Why is it that this Administration think that blood-letting and murderous occupation of Iraq even after Saddam had been caught will give them any kind of moral high ground? The rest of the world knows that this Administration has corrupted America. The Bushies are making dogmeat out of innocent women and children. If we were to withdraw, it couldn't be any worse than it is now. We have replaced Saddam with another dicatator, Allawi does not represent the Iraqi people. There's going to be another civil war there anyhow but as long as American troops remain there, they will be a united front against what the Iraqis consider to be oppressors. Were Kerry in office, he would know how to solve the problem. He could make arrangements with the various warring factions and bring in the world community. He was very clear about this in his speeches. But now he's gone. So it's Monday morning quarterbacking. The only thing that makes sense now is to raise our voices in protest against this illegal, immoral war. Why was Vietnam being revisited? Because it is happening again. Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Once Famous Date: 08 Nov 04 - 05:33 PM This just makes you feel like it's thre 60s again, don't it? It won't make you grow your hair back. You had your chance to raise your voice in protest. 51% said yes 48% said no. Again, the election is over. Get over it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,Frank Date: 08 Nov 04 - 06:29 PM Actually, that's not necessarilly true. Information is coming out now that reveals that this election was hacked. We really don't know the truth and it's not yet being reported on the evening news. Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Amos Date: 08 Nov 04 - 06:44 PM The Iraqui people would be dogmeat if we weren't there fighting for them to have a democracy. They just don't get it. This is just chauvinistic drivel. Who would be making them in to dogmeat? The majority of people in Iraq were living subdued, frightened, but relatively peaceful lives before Bush's invasion. You think they would be under attack by insurgents without an occupying force? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Bobert Date: 08 Nov 04 - 06:47 PM Had the election been decided by intellegent people and real issues, rather than emotional people and bogus issues, then it would not have been close enough for Diebold and other Repub voting machine comapanies to steal it, which they did... And, Frank. Keep in mind there are more GUESTS than one. I am familiar with one GUEST's writings and heart who has contributed to this thread and this GUEST has been consistent going back to the run up to the war... And Dougie. What Little Hawk said. If democracy was such an important thing to the neocons they'd show a little respect for it here at home. Yeah, support the troops. Withdraw them immedicately. Sure some Iraqis will suffer if this happens but more will suffer if it doesn't. There's nothin' unAmerican about this stand either. Every excuse that Bush has gone before the American people with has turned out to be either a lie or has been fulfilled. He can't just keep coming up with new excuses. Get out NOW! Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Nov 04 - 06:48 PM I still have my hair, Martin. You may recall that the Lakota were generous enough to leave Custer his after Little Big Horn. Not that he really deserved it... (The women drove knitting needles in his ears after the battle to open them up, though, because he had apparently not heard the Lakota when they warned him some years before not to lie to them about treaties which proved to be worth less than the paper they were written on.) Your goverment is a thief and a murderer. That is no reflection upon you. I understand that, and I note the difference. My judgement is not cast upon you or Doug or other such ordinary people, it's upon your leaders who have lied to you over and over again and are still lying to you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Peace Date: 08 Nov 04 - 06:57 PM Separate in our minds the following: Politicians Soldiers Soldier: one who trains to perform a job--specifically, to bring death and destruction to a given enemy. Politician: one who chooses the enemy on behalf of the soldiers. That's the way it works in America, folks. Do you think that politicians running a hot war is good for the guys at the sharp end? This is fu#kin' Vietnam all over again. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,US Date: 08 Nov 04 - 07:00 PM Hooded and robed Guest propagandist: You have information from inside Falluja? Howcome? Frank: Information coming out of your ass? Ever heard of the "Oil For Food Scandal? The terrorists do not represent the Iraqi people. They represent outside interests. Limey son of a bitch: First you arrogant assholes tried to sway the American election. You fucked that up and now you com crying and sucking snot on behalf of the terrorists in Iraq, another fuck up. You are an unwitting participant in the head game terrorists play on the rest of the world. What else would you expect from a nation of Elton's and Boy Georges? All of you war protesters can soak yourself in gasoline and set yourself on fire in protest. We will have a weenie roast. Uncle Sam |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,Frank Date: 08 Nov 04 - 07:08 PM Uncle Sam? I don't think so. Sounds more like an oppressor to me. Most of the people who cry "terrorist" wouldn't know one if they saw one. It's a hate card they play and a fear game they thrive on. Red Alert! Time to duck! Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Bobert Date: 08 Nov 04 - 07:24 PM Ahhhhh, yo Uncle Sam... You have an operational definition for what a 'terrorist" is? And, Question #2. Lets say that another country invaded the US and had surrounded your town. What would you do? Now if you say defend yourself then you might want to rethink your first response to the "Waht is a terrorist" question. If you say that you wouldn't defend yourself, then maybe you ain't all that gruff and tough as you would like folks to believe here by the tone of your postings. And I'll repeat that democragy doesn't come from the barrel of a gun and this odd-ball "freedom" that Don Rumsfeld and George Bush talk about for the Iraqi people ain't gonna come from the barrels of US guns. Terribly flawed logic... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST Date: 08 Nov 04 - 07:29 PM Uncle Sam you illustrate all that is unwell in the US army. And even though you may be in a minority with your thoughts, people like you tend to shout louder. And sometimes it is the only point of view we hear. You are a sorry spokesperson for your country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,Uncle Sam Date: 08 Nov 04 - 07:37 PM Self made intellectuals of "superior Inteligence" that fall prey to propaganda and stand in the way of freedom = terrorists supporter. Got your gasoline and matches? Make a real statement to the world. "Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged." Abe Lincoln, the evil Republican that ended slavery in the US. Uncle Sam |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Bobert Date: 08 Nov 04 - 07:54 PM ...But lesser known as a man who for political purpose pushed the country into a war against itself. The slavery issue was no more than a sideshow that plsyed well into the hands of the revisonist historians. As fir the gas and match suggestion, Tom Jefferson would probably think America better off if you'd try the cure on yourself first. Your hero, George Bush and his friends were dead wrong in attacking Iraq and even deader wrong on continuing the occupation and continued destruction of Iraq and its people. Bobert p.s. And if this Uncle Sam is you, L.Hawk? Bad, bad, bad.... Must be nuthin' happening in the neighborhood of interest... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: dianavan Date: 08 Nov 04 - 08:34 PM The best remark on this thread was if the Bush administration really cared about democracy, they'd be doing a better job at home. d |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Nov 04 - 08:47 PM Good God, no, Bobert! "Uncle Sam" or "US" or whoever the hell it is, is not me trying to parody the quintessential "ugly American"...although he might sound like such a parody. I think it's someone who is actually serious. His words should serve as a further warning to people of just how dangerous the American administration is in the World today, when it's got people like that backing it. If I had the power, I'd put the fool in the front lines right where the fighting is the thickest, since blood is obviously what he wants and thirsts for. Best he should get a chance to see what it's like firsthand. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Bobert Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:03 PM Well, my apologies, L. Hawk... Or compliments? Ain't too sure which... Sam's stuff is so over the top comic bookish that, sniff, yeah, you did some to mind. I know there's this playfull, shall we say, side of you and of all the folks I know who could pull Sam off, well, you did come to mind... Like I said, my apologies... Sniff... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: jaze Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:04 PM Martin, surely you mean "forcing" them to have a demcoracy. They never asked us for it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: dianavan Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:12 PM jaze - You are spot on! Democracy is something that grows from within a nation. It is not something you can impose on a nation. I do not remember Iraq asking for help, either. Yes, Saddam was hated. The U.S. is hated even more. d |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Bobert Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:14 PM "Either be free and democratic 'er we'll kill you!!!! Heck, we jus' kill you anyway..." Donnie Rumsfeld |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,US Date: 08 Nov 04 - 09:16 PM Little Hawk should be there on the front lines too. On the terrorist side so he can really see who he is rooting for. Terrorists are not dangerous. It is the Administration that is dangerous. Uncle Sam |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Peace Date: 09 Nov 04 - 12:10 AM One of the difficulties in Iraq is that the US has never 'defined' victory. It has left its troops hanging. The guys in the field have to keep wondering, "Is THIS victory?" Or, "Is this victory?" "How 'bout THIS?" Tough spot to put a soldier in, IMO. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: DougR Date: 09 Nov 04 - 12:31 AM Hey! Amos has recovered! Hooray! DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Amos Date: 09 Nov 04 - 12:33 AM Terrorists are dangerous enough, US, no mistake. Three thousand office workers can't be wrong. How about we go after them, rather than the dildo playing with bombs in Iraq who weren't terrorists until after the invasion? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,Boab Date: 09 Nov 04 - 12:47 AM Ah, Doug R. and M.G.---read the posts of the one other who seems to share your adamant views. Is this after all the level of your intellect and morality? We all thought you were kidding---- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Amergin Date: 09 Nov 04 - 12:57 AM Doug, I do not give a shit what happens to those Iraqi people. I just care for my brother and others like him to come home. Since you are so gung ho for it, how about we send YOUR kids over? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Ellenpoly Date: 09 Nov 04 - 01:24 AM Glad to see you back in the fray, Amos! ;-D ..xx..e |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Amos Date: 09 Nov 04 - 02:42 AM "Let us, if we can, step back from the shadows of war and seek out the way of peace. And if that journey is one thousand miles, or even more, let history record that we, in this land, at this time, took the first step." -John F. Kennedyon concluding the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty between the USA, the UK, and the USSR(11) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,US Date: 09 Nov 04 - 09:17 AM "Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and success of liberty." President John F. Kennedy, 20 January 1961 "An attempt by an outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the United States of America, and such an assault will be repelled by any means necessary, including military force." President Jimmy Carter 23 January 1980 Uncle Sam |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST Date: 09 Nov 04 - 11:24 AM Those presidents have great political writers, don't they? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Wolfgang Date: 09 Nov 04 - 12:41 PM I would feel better if I could believe Uncle Sam was just a clever parody. However, Mudcat parodies are not so consistent and so deep in my heart I start feeling he means what he says and too many people think alike in the USA. Well, once the USA was looked upon with admiration around the world for several values like freedom, democracy and several other ideals which were deplorably scarce in the world outside of the USA. Now we look with admiration (on a technical level) at the weapons arsenal. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: DougR Date: 09 Nov 04 - 01:08 PM Martin, I agree with you. They just don't get it. Amos refers to it as chauvinistic drivel. Tell that to the relatives of the hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis Saddam placed in mass graves. Yes, Martin, you are right. They just don't get it. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Little Hawk Date: 09 Nov 04 - 01:30 PM My impression is, Doug, that the USA and Britain have killed far more Iraqis than Saddam. Further to that, they both supported and armed Saddam while he was killing Iraqis...until they didn't need him to kill Iranians anymore. Britain was killing Iraqis wholesale in the 20's and 30's too. The USA is a latecomer to the dirty game of empire. The Iraqis know this. The USA and Britain are far greater enemies of the Iraqi people than even Saddam could ever have managed to be, and he was one of their former employees and hit men. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,Frank Date: 09 Nov 04 - 05:55 PM Uncle S. " The terrorists do not represent the Iraqi people. They represent outside interests" Prove it. The "terrorists" are whoever Bush declares them to be. Outside interests are the Bush Adminstration. They know how to make people salivate like Pavlov's dog. Just raise the colored alert. Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,a american Date: 09 Nov 04 - 06:36 PM uncle sam your a great american we need to kill every damn one of those sand niggers and to hell with the muslim dogs , if it was me as president id kick every arab person in america out of the us and take all of thier money they have here. i would drop the big 30 ton bombs on irag and be done with the problem, this war needs to be fought and you democrats can just suck air cause yall lost the election. if bush says they are a terrorist then by damn they are a terrorist . with the P.L.O. all in france i would send a hit team to wipe them all out i would blow up every muslim church in fullisah ,zarcowie should be dead . all muslims are girls uncle sam your tha man |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Peace Date: 09 Nov 04 - 06:42 PM And we have just heard from an illiterate individual who likely belongs to a hate group. Oh, joy! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST Date: 09 Nov 04 - 07:12 PM MMmmmm using 'girls' as an insult rings a bell? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Bobert Date: 09 Nov 04 - 07:20 PM brucie, You posed an interesting question earlier when you asked what would define victory for the US. The problem is that it would appear that the definition keeps, for some reason, changing as the Bush keep changing the reasons for the invasion. Okay, a little review: 1. WMD............... Well, since Iraq doesn't appear to have any then we should just say, "We Win" and, ahhhh, leave... 2. Links to Al Quida.............. Well, this has also been disproven so we should just say "We Win" and leave... 3. Mushroom clouds over American cities............. Well, that rurned out to also be false so we should just say "We Win" and leave... There, those were the first batch of reasons and the reasonable thing would have been to, ahhhh, you guessed it, say We win" and leave... But no, Bush didn't want to leave after the initial reason for going to war were set aside so he came up with a "new and improved" reason to invade Iraq: 4. Saddam is a bad man................. Fine, Saddam is a bad man but now he is caught so he can't do nay more bad stuff so we should just say "We Win" and leave... But, no, we didn't leave. Hmmmmmmm? What will they think of next? 5. Okay, no WMD's? No mushroom clouds? No Al Quida connection? No more Saddam? Hmmmmmm? Okay, give me a minute.... Ahhhh, Democracy! Yes, sweet, sweet democracy!!! Yes, yes! That's will represent that elusive victory, fir sure. The problem is that the Bush folks don't think much of democracy. They think it to be a pain in the butt. So, ahhhhh, why would they want to try to impose a failed sysytem of governemnt on a population that is ready to break into a civil war the day the US troops leave? See, there really is no "end game" here. The Bush folks will keep changing the story just as they have over the last two years. There will not be a victory in Iraq. They had their chances to claim victory and leave. Now they shown they have no intention of leaving Iraq for any reason other than total military defeat by the insurgents of th re US military, which won't happen anymore than a creation of a working democracy in Iraq... How do you spell "liars"? Too easy? Try "quagmire"... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: akenaton Date: 09 Nov 04 - 07:24 PM Much as American foreign policy disgusts me, and there is no doubt in my mind that the American people have just given a mandate to an extreme fascist regime,we should remember that the real tragedy lies with the Iraqi people. One news bulletin tonight from Fallujah states that the streets are littered with civilian corpses. This does not surprise me, given the massive firepower available to the Americans. On an earlier piece of video, I saw American troops demolishing buildings with cannon fire,from a range of what looked like 500mtrs. How could they possibly safeguard civilian lives using such tactics? Im sure there is however alot of truth in the theory that the ordinary people just want to be left in peace, not just by the invaders, but by all the religious fanatics who attract the American bullets and bombs. It seems to me that the Iraqi people are to become like the Palistinians, sacrificed on the alter of Western greed ,and the Mullahs' thirst for power....Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Peace Date: 09 Nov 04 - 07:58 PM Bobert, Thanks for mentioning. That's the problem I see that the troops face. Another CF involving a screwed-up civilian leadership sending kids in to perform an ill-defined task. That turns soldiers into cannon fodder. This is the same damn thing that happened in Vietnam. It wasn't funny then and it isn't funny now. And yes, I do feel for the Iraqis who are getting torn up and killed in this bloody mess. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Ellenpoly Date: 10 Nov 04 - 04:32 AM http://www.labournet.net/other/0411/usmil1.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,Larry K Date: 10 Nov 04 - 10:51 AM When we pulled out of Viet Nam 2 million Cambodians were killed, but nobody really really cares about that (except Little Hawk) If we pulled out of Iraq millions more would be killed in civil wars are by terrorists or by Turkey (in the north) invading the Kurks. None of you care about that either (except Little Hawk) I don't want American lives being lost either. That is why I support getting out of Iraq and then nuking Iraq, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and Sudan. No american lives are lost, and terrorist are killed. A very modest proposal indeed. And we get out of Iraq. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,Boab Date: 10 Nov 04 - 07:56 PM No---I don't think that Iraq should be left to its own devices right now. The necessity for a military presence has arisen in the first place, however, because of hamhanded unilateral action on the part of the United States of America, [Coalition? --Don't gimme that! The US and a retinue of creeps with Tony Blair at the head of the queue.]And may I suggest to Martin G. that the U.N. got NO chance from Busb-Blair and co. If you are capable of being honest at all, you will agree that the US --both right and out-of-sight-right parties ---have no intention of ever using the UN as anything other than a tool for US convenience. Something like NATO in fact. The "coalition" attacked Iraq because of oil. Oil.OIL. Not because of the WMDs they hoped the Iraqis had. Not because of the despotic rule of their erstwhile friend Hussein. Because of oil, and the control of the oilfields. Why d'ye think the US bases are being withdrawn from Saudi? ---Because they haven't the slightest intention of "bringing the troops home" from Iraq. The US army is there for a long, long, time. That's where the new bases are being built. They see a future that guarantees oil supply, that ensures profits for their corporations, and that guarantees a powerful Mideast friend in the State of Israel. They have miscalculated the will of the Iraqi people, and are paying in lives and fiscal chaos now, and will do so for a long time to come. Withdrawing now would leave utter chaos and lives would be lost in the local struggle for power. But in the end [and a lot more quickly than under an unwanted occupation] outside help would be welcomed, and the people would get their lives, and their resources, returned to them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: DougR Date: 10 Nov 04 - 09:48 PM L.H.: what are you smoking? The U. S. and Great Britain have killed more Iraqis than Saddam? Surely you jest. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Bobert Date: 10 Nov 04 - 10:04 PM Actually, Dougie... I think that Little Hawk is probably close to being correct. The estimates of 100,000 dead from the invasion plus upwards of 500,000 from the sanctions probably gets US in the same league as Saddam.... GUEST, Boab... You are correct about this invasion and subsequent occupation is very much about oil. When the World Bank and I.M.F. fail to secure other folks resources thru their loan sharking, and the CIA is not able to bring about a coup or mysterious death, then it gets turned over to folks like Donnie Rumsfeld.... The US ***IS*** going to have its OIL!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: beardedbruce Date: 10 Nov 04 - 10:09 PM Bobert, You blame the US for the ones that died because Saddam chose to build palaces rather than buy food or medicine? YOU are sick! And the "100,00" from the invasion includes those killed by the Iraqis and foreign fighters. I think you might allow some blame for the ones blowing up civilians and police... AND WHERE IS THE OIL YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT? I do not see that the US has "CONTROL" over the oil- it is costing us a lot more to be there than any amount of oil we could be pumping out- and the oil being pumped is being sold by the Iraqis. So either give us some information about the oil, or stop using it as a reason we are in Iraq. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Peace Date: 10 Nov 04 - 10:23 PM Interesting article. USATODAY.com - The world has lost Iraq's oil |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: beardedbruce Date: 10 Nov 04 - 10:28 PM http://www.cfr.org/background/background_iraq_oil2.php |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: dianavan Date: 11 Nov 04 - 12:06 AM Oh, now I get it! Iraq will have to sell their oil to Bush so that they can re-pay Halliburton for repairing their infrastructure. Such a deal. Doesn't sound like the Persian discount is going to do the Iraqi's much good. d |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: beardedbruce Date: 11 Nov 04 - 12:20 AM No, dianavan, Iraq will sell their oil to whoever gives them the best price. Sorry if this bursts your illusions. Try reading the post. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: Peace Date: 11 Nov 04 - 12:28 AM The rate things are going, the States will need its troops to establish democracy in the USA. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: dianavan Date: 11 Nov 04 - 12:39 AM I did read the post. Thats where I read the part about selling their oil to re-build their infrastructure. Such a deal! d |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,US Date: 11 Nov 04 - 01:14 AM GUEST,a american: Your a sorry excuse for a human posing as an American. Uncle Sam |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,Boab Date: 11 Nov 04 - 02:38 AM Many of us are hoping that YOU are merely posing, Guest US ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,US Date: 11 Nov 04 - 09:03 AM "Four hostages are found alive in or near Falluja by US troops fighting to wrest control of the city from insurgents. One of the hostages said he was a taxi driver US-led troops involved in fighting against insurgents in the Iraqi city of Falluja have found four imprisoned men believed to be Iraqi hostages. Three of the men were contractors working for the US military, a US marines spokesman said, and the fourth said he was a taxi driver." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4002989.stm Uncle Sam |
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Subject: RE: BS: Get Out of Iraq Now! From: GUEST,Boab Date: 11 Nov 04 - 03:12 PM Jeeze---Uncle Sam! Shades of Al Capone!!! |
